Woman's Hour - Kate Rusby, Frances Cha, Textile Factories

Episode Date: July 23, 2020

The folk singer, Kate Rusby also has the nickname, The Barnsley Nightingale. Kate's latest album is covers of pop music you're bound to recognise, but in her own folksy, mellow way. She talks to us about why she did an album of covers, how she recorded it with her husband and girls, and why Susannah Hoff made her cry.Seoul in South Korea is known as the plastic surgery capital of the world. There were a million cosmetic procedures last year. Frances Cha, a former travel and culture editor, speaks to Jenni about her new novel ‘If I Had Your Face’ and how she researched it by visiting plastic surgeons and escort bars.We talk to the union, Community, about textile factories in Leicester and the recent concerns over low pay and the lack of social distancing in some of them.And we Cook The Perfect. Today it's with the Australian chef, Lara Lee. She specialises in Indonesian cooking, due to her family background. She shares recipes that have been passed down the generations. Today, she's cooking the perfect sambal, which is a hot relish found on every Indonesian dinner table.

This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK. I'm Natalia Melman-Petrozzella, and from the BBC, this is Extreme Peak Danger. The most beautiful mountain in the world. If you die on the mountain, you stay on the mountain. This is the story of what happened when 11 climbers died on one of the world's deadliest mountains, K2. And of the risks we'll take to feel truly alive. If I tell all the details, you won't believe it anymore. Extreme. Peak danger. Listen wherever you get your podcasts.

BBC Sounds. Music, radio, podcasts. Hello, Jenny Murray welcoming you to the Woman's Hour podcast for the 23rd of July. In today's programme, the Barnsley Nightingale, Kate Rusby, said to perform folk music for people who don't like folk music, with a new album of covers made with her husband and two daughters during lockdown. Cook the perfect sambal, a hot relish found on every Indonesian dinner table.

The Australian chef Lara Lee traced her culinary history from Sumatra to Timor and the novel set in South Korea. Francis Cha investigates the escort bars of Seoul, the plastic surgery capital of the world, in If I Had Your Face. Now in the middle of last week we discussed some of the problems of fast fashion just as we were becoming aware of the rise in cases of Covid-19 in Leicester and concerns about the working conditions in some of the textile factories there. Staff, primarily women, had been found to be underpaid and there was overcrowding on some factory floors, which goes against social distancing guidelines.

Well, on Tuesday of this week, the House of Lords heard that inspectors had made 34 spot checks on such factories. Enforcement notices have been issued to some, but no prosecutions have been announced. Well, Kate Dearden is from the union community, which represents workers in different workplaces, including in clothing factories. She's head of research policy and external relations. Kate, what do you know about the inspections that have actually taken place? Morning, Jenny. And yes, in relation to the statement that the HSE put out, indeed, they've carried out 51 visits to factories in Leicester, 34 of which were spot checks. And

basically, they can utilise a range of enforcement actions from verbal advice, letters, serving of enforcement notices to help achieve compliance. We found in the press release that of those nine of the visits where enforcement notices were enforced it consisted of things like a failure to apply adequate coronavirus controls under the Health and Safety at Work Act. It included a lack of providing adequate welfare facilities. This includes washing facilities, toilets, rest and changing facilities and many other issues. The factory owners have said that they want to restore what's going on, resolve the problems and stamp out rogue operators, they've said.

They're concerned about the effect of recent news coverage, obviously, on their reputation. This is Hussein Suleiman, who's a manufacturer in Leicester. He was speaking last night on BBC Midland. Just have a listen. So many thousands of people are affected here by headline-grabbing individuals, including politicians, including competitors of Boohoo.

Let's be very clear. Had it not been for Boohoo that supported this industry in this city and has done, there would be all those thousands of people on the job line right now. Now, Kate, he's referring there to the online fashion retailer Boohoo, which, of course, was criticised by MPs who said it had failed to address claims of exploitation. But how much sympathy do you have with Mr Salomon's point that people are going to be put out of work?

We would argue that, you know, we need to create the room to actually work with these businesses and companies have a responsibility to do that and ensure that trade unions can have that access. So rather than close these factories, we recognise that it is actually people's jobs and it is food on the table for their families every week. But how can we, workers, work with these factories and these managers as a trade union to educate them on workplace safety and regulations how can we better protect those workers and how can we work together to support and introduce very necessary and but potential positive change in these workplaces and you know it brings back to the inspections in a way that

there is approximately 1500 textile factories across leicester. So 51 visits is really only scratching the surface of the problem here. Add to that the cuts that we've seen with the Health and Safety Executive in terms of spot checks and inspectors. We don't really have a clear picture of what's going on and we need that access to be able to work with managers. How long have you had concerns about these factories? Yeah, at Community we've worked in the industry across the UK for many years and at the moment we are represented on Leicester's strategic task force which was set up by the city

council and is meeting quarterly and indeed a lot more at the moment and prior to that we've been involved in the ethical trading initiative a few years ago where we raised these concerns we're identifying the bad practices by employers and factories across Leicester and we feel like now there's probably more will to do so you know back then we were probably the only trade union that were trying to implement these change but with the lack of access to workplaces it was really difficult but these issues have existed for many many years and now we just face additional issues with coronavirus in these factories as the health and safety executive pointed out. What are the specific things that really concern you? Yes issues existing issues continue to concern us with regards to workers being paid below the minimum wage. The absence of employment contracts is quite

common. And of course, breaches in health and safety practices. But on top of that, we found that people actually and workers don't understand their rights. So they're not getting off their holidays and under other standard terms and conditions. And the biggest problem is that there's no confidence to actually report things. So workers don't feel able, like they are able to make change in their workplaces, they don't feel able, like they are able to make change in their workplaces. They don't feel able to report these horrible and terrible practices. But on top of that, at the moment we're hearing reports, it was by Labour Behind the Label, which is a campaign organisation,

who found that factories throughout coronavirus have continued to operate full capacity with very little or sometimes no social distancing and no provision of PPE or sanitising stations. So we have these terrible existing conditions. And in the current crisis and pandemic, we have additional issues that need to be addressed across these industries and factories. How sure are you that your concerns are justified? Because I know, and you just intimated, you haven't ever been allowed into the factories to make your own inspections and so we we have a history of working within a textile industries in the uk so our

wealth of knowledge and it's very valuable in situations like this and working you know on the task force with other organizations and the local council and local government we can develop a very clear picture of what we expect it to be like in these factories. And, you know, we do have members in other factories in Leicester not in these terrible conditions, but obviously understand the situation that's going on in Leicester, have conversations and have a pretty good idea of the bad practices

and they're feeding that through. But as you point out, we actually need access to these factories and to these companies, and without that trade union access, it's going to be really difficult for us to get in and help and work with the employer and the factories to sort the situation out and create change. Why do you suppose, as a trades union, you haven't been allowed in? I think there's been a lack of willingness from employers to engage with us

and probably because of all these poor practices and procedures why there's a reason for that and you know there's a real need to actually change that culture and give trade unions the ability to work with workers to give them the confidence to report things so it's been a lack of engagement by employers um for for many obvious reasons and how much are you still pressing to gain that access yeah we're at the moment we're saying you know we are here we are here to work with you we want we want to work with you and

educate you to better understand practices and how can we together create decent well-paid and good quality jobs for a community that does need them, and stamp out these bad practices, make sure the modern day slavery is eradicated across the world, and indeed in the UK and in Leicester. And how can we work together as a trade union with our expertise in workplace safety regulations, as well as our knowledge of the textiles industry and history of representing those workers. Modern day slavery in Leicester is a very strong expression. Why do you use it? I think it's illegal labour a lot of the time of what is happening. From holidays, working conditions, a race to the bottom

has created terrible practices of abusive labour practices where often what we've heard is that employers aren't actually complaining. So how can we support victims to actually report issues of exploitation and stop such abuse of working conditions and workers' rights? Kate Learden, thank you very much indeed for joining us this morning. And if you're listening to this and you do have some experience of working in a factory like the one that Kate has described, we would really like to hear from you. You can send us an email, of course, and if you don't want us to, we won't use your name.

Now, If I Had Your Face is a debut novel by Frances Cha. She grew up in the United States, Hong Kong and South Korea and became the travel and culture digital editor for CNN in Seoul. Her novel follows the stories of four women in the beauty salons, cosmetic surgeries and escort bars of contemporary Seoul, which has become known apparently as the plastic surgery capital of the world. And Frances joins us from Seoul. Frances, what inspired you to write this book? Hi. Well, when I was growing up, I constantly wished I could see people like me in English literature and I never did and I didn't even think that

Asian characters were possible in books written in English and it was only after I started reading the Joy Luck Club by Amy Tan that it really opened my eyes to the possibilities of what what was possible and when And I had always wanted to be a writer ever since I was a child. And so when I grew older and I really started to tackle writing, I tried my hand at creating characters in modern soul, which I had never encountered in my reading.

But I really wanted to look at the modern landscape of Korea, which is very unique and very different from other countries. So the title, If I Had Your Face, Where did that come from? It comes from a scene in the book where one of the characters is at a plastic surgery clinic and she encounters the K-pop idol star that she is modeling her face after. And that kind of stems from a desire to have this beauty that she thinks is the answer to all of her problems. And if she attains it, then she thinks there will never be anything she'll ask for ever again. And also the fact that she has been judging that K-pop star for the choices that she's been making in her life and she thinks oh if only i had her her face i would live in a way um that can't be faulted and

i would make the right choices and i it kind of goes back to i think a lot of people would be able to identify with you know wishing for something that they don't have and thinking that if they had that, their life would be perfect. Now this question of soul becoming the plastic surgery capital of the world, how did you research the cosmetic procedures that you write about? Oh, that took several years of, well, when I was at CNN, I was covering that part of the soul landscape. And then when I really started writing this book, I would pose as a patient and go to plastic surgery clinics in Seoul and get an assessment of my face that involved x-rays and 3d mapping and different consultations with the surgeons and the clinic managers and what did they say to you when they've done all this

assessment i mean they were very compelling and persuasive because they show you on the spot what you could look like. And they pinpoint, you know, things, insecurities that you didn't even know you had, but they voice them. They said, oh, you're probably self-conscious about this. And I said, uh, yeah, how did you know that? And so they show you, um, the different, for me specifically, I was asking about this double jaw surgery that is very invasive and life-threatening. And it's considered to be the most extreme plastic surgery you can get. And apparently I wasn't eligible for that one, but I was asking on behalf of quote-unquote a friend and they showed me the different kinds of Jaw like relocation and shaving and reattachment that they would be doing

Why has this happened in Seoul? Why has it become the plastic surgery capital of the world? I think it's an issue, but I think the Western perspective towards it is actually a lot more harsher than what is perceived internally within Korea. But in a society where there is extreme academic pressure, Korea is the most educated country in the world. And so with all these pressures that society places upon people, there are very few ways for you to get ahead if you're not born into wealth and status and have academic success and plastic surgery has become a very practical way to lift yourself out of your current situation and give imbue your life in a better way. And so it's considered more of a practical way to better your life rather than being viewed with such a negative lens that I think is often placed in Western culture.

Now, much of the story is set in room salons where rich men come to have drinks, have a beautiful woman accompany them, and sometimes sex with her. How did you carry out the research for those places? My story is set in a 10% and sex is off the table in those. And I mean mean they're not um that does not take place but i did also visit them in person and the first encounter was inadvertent and a guy friend had just called me there because he was drunk and wanted to discuss something with me. But when I went and discovered this world that I hadn't known about at all and how different it was, it really fascinated me. And I tried to go back as often as I could for research purposes. And I did a lot of research into the news and attempted interviews

and documentaries and all of that and who are the women who who who go to these places and earn money there the women who work there are young and they're extremely beautiful and they their job is to pour liquor for these men and kind of create an atmosphere of that is exciting and you know he pampered the men as if they're Kings and make them feel like they're the main center of the universe. And as to their backgrounds, they range from people who are just students trying to make some quick money to others that have been, it's more of an enslavement in the system, where they entered the system at such a young age and racked up so much debt and now they cannot get out so the more research that i did i realized how sinister

the the industry is and how unfortunate it is for a lot of the women working there despite the perceptions that it's actually something you do to make a quick buck. You write a lot about private relationships, like difficult relationships with men who are available or not in the marriage market, mothers and mothers-in-law who seem generally unsympathetic how common are they? So I was addressing kind of the intense pressure that children have in Korean society from their parents that that is hand in hand with intense love and so the relationships with mothers-in-law come from this idea that oh my child I've sacrificed everything for my child and my child is the light of my universe and so when it comes time to marry it's

only natural at that point that no one seems good enough. And that kind of seeps into the relationship. And I've seen it in my own circles, in our family history. And so I was just commenting on that. It's quite common. How has the book come down in South Korea? Oh, it's been covered by a lot of of outlets and it's a mix of being very proud and supportive that there is this book in the modern korean

landscape in english but at the same time i think there is is a sense that they're used to having a lot of the Korean pop culture be highly praised and romanticized in English media. And so there have been questions about why I chose to portray things that can be construed as negative. Now, you've obviously been in South Korea during COVID-19. What's it been like? Oh, it's so dramatic and extreme. I flew in from New York, and the minute you touch down at the airport, they have you download a mandatory GPS tracking app,

which you have to have on at all times. And then there's a quarantine designated taxi that takes you straight from the airport to a testing center. And I went at 9.30 in the evening because they're open until 10 p.m. And you are administered a free COVID test. You get the results by text the next morning. And then you enter a very strict quarantine where you're not allowed to leave the front door of wherever you're staying. And that has to be cleared with customs and their offices about getting permission to stay in a certain place. And I'm staying at my mother's house. So she had to go stay at my brother's.

And we were not allowed to leave the front door. Government officials would drop by at different points of the week, at unannounced, all times of the day. Yeah, it was very intense. We're not allowed to take out the trash. Well, Frances Cha, thank you very much indeed for joining us this morning. And I'll just mention the title of the book again, If I Had Your Face. Thank you. Now, still to come in today's programme, the Barnsley Nightingale, Kate Rosby, releases a new album of covers made with her husband and daughters during lockdown and the serial, the fourth episode of The Debrief. And we're looking ahead to Listener Week next month, starting on the 24th of August.

We'll be, oh, we've already done that. I mean to say next in our summer series of how to somebody messed up the script, not me. And so far, we've had friendship and changing your career. Then we'll have how to end your relationship well. How do you manage the practical, emotional, legal and financial aspects of splitting up with the least harm to you and others? We'd love to hear your experiences, of course, whether they're good or bad. So please send us an email and we'll hope to talk to you. We obviously won't use your name if you don't want us to. Now Lara Lee is an Australian chef whose mother is also Australian and her father is Indonesian. She decided to

trace his culinary history and travelled from the west coast of Sumatra to Timor in the east where her family's story began. The result is a book called Coconut and Sambal and today she cooks the perfect sambal, a hot relish found on every Indonesian dinner table. Lara, there are 17,500 islands across the Indonesian archipelago, 6,000 of them I think are inhabited. So how does food vary across the whole region? Oh hi Jenny, yes so it is a very diverse country in terms of its landscape but also its religions and also the food. So you know across Indonesia you will find different flavour characteristics across you across each of the individual islands. And what is beautiful about Indonesia is the way that it has taken on culinary influences

from, I guess, different trading routes that have visited the country. So traders from Spain, from Britain, from the Middle East, from China, from Malaysia, have all kind of traded through Indonesia through the last thousand years. And with them, they've brought produce and different dishes that have really influenced Indonesian cuisine that we see today. So one of the primary ingredients in Indonesian food is chilies, which you'll find in sambal, which is a hot chili relish. And chilies were brought to Indonesia in the 16th century by the Spanish. So as I traveled across researching Indonesia, what was marvelous was how the flavor profiles change from, you know, sweet in central Java to really punchy,

vibrant Chinese influenced flavors in the north of Sumatra to Bali, where there's, you know, a lot of pork. So not all of the country eats pork because it's predominantly Muslim. But in Bali, they're a Hindu island. So they eat a lot of pork, but they also have a really lovely, fresh, raw sambal that's marinated in lime leaf and, you know, with garlic and shallots. So Laura, how is sambal actually made? Sambal can be, you know, made in many different ways. And, you know, there are some researchers that have found that there are, I think, more than 300 sambals across Indonesia. So they come as fresh or cooked. They can be made with dried ingredients like dried chillies or fresh chillies.

But at the heart of sambal really are a few key ingredients which are chillies, garlic, shallots, sometimes ginger or galangal and often it can be seasoned with some beautiful palm sugar or tamarind. But typically in terms of how to cook sambal when you do cook it it will either be ground in a chobek and uluqan which is kind of like a flat basin similar to a mortar and pestle but in my kitchen I use a food processor because you know you're using so many ingredients to make a sambal it is really easy to to whiz things up in the food processor and then you'll cook the sambal off to kind of release all of the aromas and the flavours. So that's primarily how you'd make a ground sambal,

which is typically the sambals that you'll find across Indonesia are usually cooked and ground. Now, I understand that Indonesians tend not to de-seed their chillies. How hot, then, is the sambal? Well, it really depends on where you travel, but Indonesians really love sambal. And at every meal, you'll find sambal and a little bit of sambal will be eaten with every bite of food, kind of in the way that we would use, you know, tomato ketchup or mustard or even salt and pepper here in the West. But in terms of the heat level, you'll find that they won't de-seed the chilies

and that's because they really love the heat sensation that comes with sambal. Now that says, that said, you know, when I cook sambal for other people, you know, people like my mother-in-law, Caroline and Devin, I'll often de-seed the chilies and then you'll have a really mild,

kind of gentle sambal that will still kind of give you a lovely kind of subtle level of heat and will really complement the food but I guess the point of sambal really although in Indonesia they do love it to be spicy the point of it is not to overpower the food and so they'll often eat a very little bit of sambal with every bite of food as opposed to kind of overpowering you know the entire meal that you're eating so it's meant to complement rather than overpower you write about the indonesian goddess of rice who is she yes daewi shree is her name so she is the goddess of

rice uh rice and fertility and prosperity. And you'll find regardless of religion across Indonesia that Indonesian people will really honour Dewi Sri. So particularly around rice harvest, when there's an abundance of rice or at the end of a particular rice season and planting for the next one, they will often honour Dewi Shree by putting on wonderful festivals. This may be in the form of, you know, creating a giant

rice mountain known as a Gunungan and the rice mountain will be carried by the villagers through the village and then distributed to everyone. And there'll be other kind of ceremony, like a distribution of traditional cakes. Perhaps some water will be collected from the local springs and sprinkled on everyone's head for good fortune. So rice really has many, many purposes in Indonesia from being eaten with every meal. So a big pile of rice will be on every single plate at every meal. But also they really honour Dewi Sri, the rice goddess.

And often rice will be given as an offering to the gods as well to thank them for everything that they have. So rice is very important to Indonesia. What are your earliest memories of Indonesian cuisine at home? I think my upbringing is an interesting one in terms of my connection to Indonesia because it's somewhere that I wasn't able to visit until I reached adulthood just because at the time when we were growing up we couldn't afford to. So I grew up in Sydney, Australia and as you mentioned, I have an Indonesian father and an Australian mother. And my grandmother, who was from Timor, one of the islands of Indonesia, she relocated to live with us growing up. And so growing up, my earliest memories of her were in

the kitchen with my mother preparing these wonderful Indonesian feasts. And quite often she would make, you know, marinate some chicken satay and make some peanut sauce. And then my dad would carry that food outside and barbecue it. And food was very central for us as a family because my father worked very, very hard. So I didn't get to see him very often from Monday to Friday. But, you know, every dinner time was that moment where all of our family came together and it was a very special time in our family where these big, bountiful Indonesian platters

would be sitting on the table and we would eat together and have family time. So I think I have carried those memories of, you know, Indonesian food being very, very closely related to family. And it also gave me a connection and a gateway to my indonesian heritage which i think i have definitely carried through into adulthood and is really a big part of the inspiration for the book was to to rediscover those indonesian recipes that i grew up with and eating with my grandmother lara lee thank you very

much indeed for being with us this morning and I'll just repeat the book is called Coconut and Sam Bell and thank you very much indeed. Now Kate Rusby has long been known as the Barnsley Nightingale said to perform folk music for people who don't really like folk music and And even though I do like folk music, having been raised on it, like her, in Barnsley, I like her work too. On Saturday 1st August, she'll be performing at the Radio 2 Virtual Folk Festival

and she's releasing a new album. It's made up of covers of other people's songs, which she, her husband Damien, and their two daughters have made during lockdown. Kate, why an album of covers? Hello, Jenny. Good morning. Good morning. Yes. Well, you know, so quite a few years ago, maybe five or six years ago, we played,

we went to do Joe Wiley's show on BBC Radio 2. And when you do Joe's show, you do a song of your own from the album that you're promoting. And you also do a cover of somebody else's song. So it took us quite a long time originally to decide. Being music lovers and being musicians and singers, we got so many favourite songs. So we had these massive, massive lists of songs and we ended up choosing an Oasis cover, one of their songs, Don't Go Away. And we enjoyed doing it so much on the show

that we decided to keep it in the set list on the tour that we were doing and dreamt one day, you know, that we might put it on an album and wondered how it would fit with the rest of the songs that we were doing. How difficult was it to narrow it down to the right number of songs for an album? Very, very difficult. And I wouldn't rule out a part two even because we've got so many left. But, you know, I kind of narrowed it down to about 40-ish and then ended up looking at them and wondering which ones would fit nicely as a collection on a CD. And also taking into account, you know, how we work.

You know, because being folk musicians, that's what we've done for years. You know, reinterpret existing songs. But of course, these songs are just a lot younger than the ones I usually work on. So it's been lovely. But also that nostalgia kick. You know, when we were performing some of the covers on on on the last tour that we were doing you get that little buzz in the audience of oh i've not heard this in a while or you know but there's always that danger that you're going to upset people because it's a version of a favorite song you know or something like that but so far it's been okay so fingers crossed yeah we've

had so much fun well let's see what people make of a bit of Manic Monday. Six o'clock already I was just in the middle of a dream I was kissing Valentino by a crystal blue Italian stream. And I can't be late, or I guess I just won't get paid. Oh, cause these are the days when you wish your bed was already made. Just another burning Monday Wish it were Sunday That's my fun day And I don't have to run day

Just another manic moment It's beautiful, Kate. I know it was launched digitally as a single in May. What sort of response did you get to it when it was launched? It was amazing. You know, and because originally we were going to have the album released in November. I mean, this was always the plan to do this album this year. It's just, you know, the plan to do this album this year.

It's just, you know, the world went sideways just after we started making it. But, you know, when all the gigs went that we were supposed to be doing, we thought we would bring the album release sooner. But when we'd finished that song, the Manic Monday song, I just thought, oh, do you know what? We should put this out now because I think it might cheer people up

because it's just got such a happy vibe to it so and I've got this inbuilt thing from birth that I must I must cheer people up when they're sad it's just always been there you know so we released it and it just did exactly that and Radio 2 picked it up and it was on their playlist and so it's just been absolutely fabulous and to have our two daughters on there as well just made my whole year it's brilliant how willing were they to to take part in making a big record we had to do a little bit of of negotiation with an lol doll and something else i can't remember oh it was something for a hamster so that was what they got paid for for for doing it. But they were up at the studio with us anyway, because of course, come middle of March, they were off school. So we were already committed to making the album. So they just came with us.

So we were kind of homeschooling with the left foot, doing packed lunches with the right whilst making the album. So it was a natural thing, really. And also my husband, Damien O'Kane, is multi-instrumentalist. He engineered the album he produced the album and everything on there apart from like two bits you know have been generated purely by us in the studio so and we sent a few bits up to our bass player up in Edinburgh digitally obviously because he couldn't come down he's played Moog on it and we kind of built the

album like that so I think it was slightly different feel to it because of lockdown but yeah we've just loved it we've had so much fun how easy was it to manage the home schooling as well as all the music you see I'm instantly laughing um so yes I let's let's just say I'm not a natural maths teacher, it turns out. But we've tried, you know. But then also it's given opportunities, you know, even of taking the girls out to walk the different paths around the village that we live in. You know, my oldest daughter Daisy is now 10 and we were walking down some of the paths and I was going, I've never brought you down here before, oh my goodness.

So actually it's been a lovely, lovely family time of not only doing the school work in the sense of the maths and the English, but we've also explored nature a lot more and built things, you know, and scrambled about in the wood and all things like that. So that's been absolutely lovely. I'm sure homeschooling wasn't going on when you were a kid, but certainly music was going on. So I suppose it's a little bit similar to your own family lots of music all around yeah yeah because both my parents sing and play and were heavily involved with the folk clubs especially in the Barnsley area and they remember you of course and they said to say hello and say

hello back yeah so so there was always always in the house, always instruments, always songs being sung. My dad was a sound engineer, so most weekends through summer we were at a festival or other, and on the journey they would be singing to us to stop us from fighting in the back there, you know. And my mum also set up a catering company, so she used to do catering at the festivals as well. So we got to see so many acts. And, you know, I'm sure kids usually don't see live music until they're a bit older, really. But we had it from birth.

And any parties, you know, that they had, everybody would be turning up with an instrument or, you know, as well as wine, obviously. And there would be these big sessions and sings. And, yes, I've always just been surrounded by it. I've been very lucky. Now, as we've said that this is an album of covers but often you perform your own songs what tends to inspire you to write your own folk music well you know I've been brought up with the old ballads and there's a lot of stories in there that are still relevant now I mean that's when I

first started playing folk music, people were saying, why on earth is a young girl doing these songs that are 200 years old? But folk music is the music of the people and it's about human emotion and we still do all the things in the old songs. You know, we still go to work, we still join the army, we still lose work, we still fall in love, we're still happy.

You know, all those things are still there. And I suppose mainly my own writing has been influenced by those kind of stories and those human emotions. And also, you know, I might be inspired by a news story. My last, well, not the last album, the previous one before that was called Life in a Paper Boat, which was named after the title track, which was about a story about a refugee, a woman who travelled in a boat,

and she was on the news on the TV, and she peeled back these blankets, you know, of a bundle that she was carrying, and I thought it was her worldly belongings, but it was a little baby girl, you know, so that broke my heart, and I ended up writing a song about that, but it might be something that a friend is going through.

You know, there's lots of little things that kind of just drop in your brain and spark a little idea yeah now I know you have your own record label why was that important to you well I think it might be a Yorkshire thing that we're not very trusting of other people with our money it might have been that but also you know when we when i first started out i've been touring now for 28 years and when i was making my first album we kind of took advice from a few people who we knew at the time like dave berland fellow barnsley folk singer who is i've been inspired by over the years of course and he was saying just watch out don't be signing anything and i thought really in folk music is it is music? Can it be that nasty and stuff? But when we looked into it, we thought,

oh, actually, how difficult will it be to set up our own company? And at the time, my dad was working at Leeds College Music as a lecturer in musical instrument repair. And the politics had gone down a bit downhill for him there. So he was looking for something new to do. So we set up Pure Records, which meant that we could own our own music. You know, we could tour whenever we want.

We can make albums when we want because every bit of money we saved up to make our own studio. And so we've remained completely in control of everything that we do, which is just absolutely brilliant. And I'm a big fan of Dolly Parton because she's an absolute troubadour for that.

And I just have always kind of looked at what she has done and been inspired by that. And we've managed to retain it all. And we look back and go, you know, we've done this all ourselves. It's just so lovely. You also run your own festival, which normally takes place on the first weekend in August, Yorkshire Day. Yes.

What happens this year? Oh, we're so sad. Along with just about all the festivals, I think, across the country, we've had to postpone it until next year. So we did that a couple of months ago and obviously with heavy heart because we said we absolutely love it you know we've grown it and grown it it's been growing for about seven years now and it's just such a gorgeous family festival with like arts festival and it's got such a lovely vibe to it and it's so beautiful as well in the spot where it is so um so yes so on yorkshire day on the first of august um we're

going to be doing a virtual festival so people can tune in through the day um it finishes about around tea time and people can take part in some of the activities they would have been doing there if they were there at the festival and of course we've got little bits of things recorded and daft things to do for people and cheer people up i suppose and then of course, we've got little bits of things recorded and daft things to do for people and cheer people up, I suppose. And then, of course, it leads on really nicely to the BBC Radio 2 virtual festival, which starts at eight o'clock in the evening. So it's going to be a busy day, the first of August. Kate Rosby, such a pleasure to talk to you, as always. Thank you very much for being with us.

Best of luck with the album and everything else you're up to thank you i was talking to kate rosby and angela tweeted i loved her cover of manic monday wow that was stunning and why the repeat button was invented and liz emailed us about the fast fashion factories with regard regard to fast fashion, she said, people should ask themselves if they could make the garment, including buying the fabric, haberdashery, and time at minimum wage for twice the price. If they could not, then someone, probably a woman,

is being exploited. Now, on Monday of next week, Jane's going to be talking about how families are feeling about the six-week summer holiday and she'd like to hear your plans. Are you able to find the child care you need? Are you a grandparent who's helping despite concerns about Covid-19? Are you concerned about your teenagers mental health maybe or are you concerned about your teenagers, mental health maybe, or are you just planning to do as much as you can with holidays and day trips in case there's a second wave in the autumn? If you'd like to take part in Monday's programme, then do send us a tweet or an email,

and the email you can contact us through the Woman's Hour website. Do join me tomorrow when I'll be talking to Mary L. Trump about her book Too Much and Never Enough, How My Family Created the World's Most Dangerous Man. It's a personal portrait of her uncle Donald, obviously the American president. She spent time with him in New York when she was a child. She attended a dinner at the White House. And she'll be giving us her thoughts on why she thinks his upbringing made him the man he is today. That's tomorrow. Join me. Here's your time. Two minutes past 10. Until then, bye-bye. Hi, I'm Joe Wicks and I'm just popping up to tell you about my brand new podcast with BBC Radio 4. It's extraordinary. It almost turbo charges you.

I'm really interested in the links between physical and mental health and what kind of ordinary everyday activities people do to keep on top of things. I keep fit because it's relaxing, because it absolutely relaxes my mind. And that's so important. So in this podcast, I'm having a chat with some of my favourite people to find out their tips and tricks to staying healthy and happy. For me, it's a full-body experience and it's a total game-changer. I think you're going to love it.

Hit subscribe on the Joe Wicks podcast on BBC Sounds. Let's do this. I'm Sarah Treleaven, and for over a year, I've been working on one of the most complex stories I've ever covered. There was somebody out there who's faking pregnancies. I started, like, warning everybody. Every doula that I know. It was fake.

No pregnancy. And the deeper I dig, the more questions I unearth. How long has she been doing this? What does she have to gain from this? From CBC and the BBC World Service, The Con, Caitlin's Baby. It's a long story, settle in. Available now.