Woman's Hour - Late Night Woman's Hour: Travel & Adventure

Episode Date: June 30, 2017

Women have always dreamed of escaping their ordinary lives - but it's only in recent history that travel has become a legitimate opportunity to do so - and then only for some. Lauren discusses the pleasures and pitfalls of wanderlust, with some very well-travelled women... LOIS PRYCE has travelled the world alone on her motorbike. Named one of the greatest female travellers by the Daily Telegraph she has written a number of books about her life as - her word - and adventuress. RANA RAHIMPOUR grew up in Iran and had to seek her parents' permission as a young female student to go travelling in her own country. Now based in London she presents on the BBC's Persian TV network. Her decision to move here means she cannot return to Iran even to visit because under the present regime BBC employees face arrest. She has also written about being stopped from travelling to the US by Donald Trump's travel ban.... CAROLYN PEARSON is the founder of women's travel network MAIDEN VOYAGE. It seeks to make life easier for women travelling alone, and was inspired by her own experiences. VICTORIA ADE-GENSCHOW who was born in Manchester but is now based in Berlin. A passionate advocate of travelling with a family and on a budget, she blogs at thebritishberliner.com and her motto is "just go.".

This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK. I'm Natalia Melman-Petrozzella, and from the BBC, this is Extreme Peak Danger. The most beautiful mountain in the world. If you die on the mountain, you stay on the mountain. This is the story of what happened when 11 climbers died on one of the world's deadliest mountains, K2, and of the risks we'll take to feel truly alive. If I tell all the details, you won't believe it anymore. Extreme. Peak danger. Listen wherever you get your podcasts.

Welcome to Late Night Woman's Hour. This month, we're going travelling. Imagine yourself streaming through time, shedding gloves, umbrellas, wrenches, books, friends, homes, names. This is what the world looks like if you take a rear-facing seat on a train. Looking forward, you constantly acquire moments of arrival, moments of realisation, moments of discovery. The wind blows your hair back and you are greeted by what you have never seen before. So writes Rebecca Solnit in her book

A Field Guide to Getting Lost. Women have always dreamed of escaping their ordinary lives but it's only in recent history that travel has become a legitimate opportunity to do so and then only for some. The journeys of female adventurers like Cheryl Strayed and Robin Davidson capture the public imagination. We'll be discussing this month the pleasures and pitfalls of Wunderlust with some very well-travelled women. Lois Price has travelled the world alone on her motorbike. Named one of the greatest female travellers by the Daily Telegraph,

she's written a number of books about her life as, her word, an adventurous. Welcome. Hello. Rana Rahimpur grew up in Iran and had to seek her parents' permission as a young female student to go travelling in her own country. Now based in London, she presents on the BBC's Persian TV network. Her decision to move here means she cannot return to Iran, even to visit, because under the present regime, BBC employees face arrest.

She has also written about being stopped from travelling to the US by Donald Trump's travel ban. Welcome, Rana. Hello. Carolyn Pearson is the founder of women's travel network Maiden Voyage. It seeks to make life easier for women travelling alone and was inspired by her own experiences. Hello, Carolyn. Hello. And Victoria Adegensho, who was born in Manchester

but is now based in Berlin. A passionate advocate of travelling with a family and on a budget, her motto is, if I can do it, so can you. Hello, Victoria. Hello. And with that in mind, if I can do it, so can you. Let's get going. So why do we travel? Lois, you are a self-described adventurous.

When did you find that out and what does travel bring to your life? I don't think I've ever described myself as an adventurous. It's on your website. I've been looking. I think early days, probably as a teenager, I always had itchy feet and I think probably started when I was 13 I and three friends went off on a bicycle trip with no grown ups which is unthinkable of four 13 year old girls

all just bicycling around Cornwall I don't think that would happen now but we had kind of quite gung ho parents and it was that era kind of 80s that you were just allowed to roam free and I think that was my first experience of a road trip, really, and just seeing what happened and not knowing where you're going to sleep that night when you wake up, that's the dream for me. And that was it, so it was the kind of the unknown that hooked you?

Absolutely, yeah. Okay. Rana, I mean, having grown up in a culture where women travelling alone was very much not the norm, what did experiencing travel bring you? Well, my upbringing was very different not the norm. What did experiencing travel bring you? Well, my upbringing was very different from Louisa's. There, even when I was in my 20s, I wasn't allowed to leave home and travel with my girlfriends. I did, but I had to lie. I had to pretend that I was travelling with university

and with teachers and professors. And I had to lie to an extent that sometimes my father gave me a lift to the university. And then he thought I was going with them. And then as soon as he left, I had to get a cab and join my friends at the airport and fly. And then when I was, I don't know, by the sea in the north of Iran, my father phone and said, Oh, where are you? So we're having fun in Kashan, which is a different city that he thought I was in. And looking back, I think it wasn't very wise. What if, I mean, with the number of airplanes that are crashing in Iran, I thought it wasn't very wise.

But I had fun. To be in a completely different city. Exactly. And what was it that kind of persuaded you to take those risks? Because you're young and you just want to get out there and have fun with your friends and see new places and just can't stay where your parents want you to stay. So I just couldn't stop myself.

And, you know, that never left you, that desire to kind of experience new things? Although because I have children, I can't be that adventurous, not as adventurous as I wish to be. I don't know, we might come to that with Victoria. Yeah, she'll set you right. Quite right. Yes, exactly. She's going to get you told. Victoria, I mean, travel blogs and stories are very popular, but not all of them are as pragmatic and as realistic as as yours is there's you know out there in in the market there's quite

a lot of kind of aspirational cliff top yoga yoga um which is not your vibe not really cliff top yoga is not your thing um i mean do you feel different to the other bloggers out there is that why you started writing um yes and no i mean um i'm. You know, I don't aspire to be 20. I'm married now. I'm a professional. I'm a corporate person, which means I travel during the holidays. I travel over the weekends. Sometimes I go with my son. Sometimes I go with my husband. Sometimes I go alone. Sometimes we go together. Sort of a mix and blend type of thing. Okay. And how many countries have you been to, say, in the past year? Because your list is is impressive I was looking at the blog and I kind of lost count quite quickly um I think about seven now okay so that's not bad in six months yeah with a full-time job and as you say family and stuff yes Carolyn what about maiden voyage why did you start it and how does it work uh well I'm just a sociable animal and um it was actually I don't know if you remember the website that used to be world's best bars and I found myself in la and i was trolling through world's best bars thinking i

can't go to any of these places by myself because i'll just look like a complete billy no mates on a saturday night sat there and hanging out an amazing bar with no friends and then on and so i was in a stuck in a hotel in la in downtown LA it wasn't in Hollywood and when my colleagues came on the Monday I was absolutely climbing up the walls and we went to the Sky Bar at the Mondrian Hotel in West Hollywood and I thought this is where I should have been on Saturday night and I'd had a few drinks and so I said I'm going to create a social network for female business travelers and then the guys kind of egged me on and then I had to do it and how quickly did it did it take off and how how soon did you find out

that there were other women like you out there it was a fluke so within a few weeks of me creating the website management today magazine said can we write about you and so I got all my friends to sign up and make it look like a real thing and And then the New York Times said, could we do a feature? And they did a feature. And then before I knew it, I was actually working for ITV at the time. And CNN called me in and said, can we do a piece on you? And I've always been behind camera doing IT, not in front of a camera. And they just pointed this camera at me and got this guy from Wired magazine to talk about niche social networks.

And then before I knew it, I got women from countries that I'd never even heard of signing up. Oh, fantastic. So, I mean, Lois, tell me a little bit about Travelling Alone, because a lot of the stories, you know, I've already mentioned Cheryl Strayed and Wild. And I suppose the thing that captured people's imagination about that was in part that you did it on our own. And, you know, barefoot, I think it starts with her kind of throwing her boots away. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, does mean does traveling alone make a difference I think for me um it does and I don't feel so strongly about doing it now but for my first big trip which was uh 2003 I sort of packed in the job with no clue what would happen next and um rode my motorcycle from Alaska to the bottom of South America.

And it was really important that I did that alone. And actually, I'd just met the man that would become my husband just before I left, and I was like, I've still got to go, and he was very much, no, you've got to go and do this on your own. He really understood. Ten months. Yeah.

So for me, it presents more of a challenge but what what appealed to me was the idea of living on my wits where it's sort of not quite knowing what was going to happen having to sort everything out by myself i'm being a bit older now and it sounds that just makes me feel tired i was you know 29 30 i was like yeah this is what i want to do i want to throw myself out in the world just see see what happens. And I want to be able to fix all those problems and sort of wrangle my way across borders and, you know, men broken bits of my bike and, you know, that was the fun.

Did you know that you had those skills or was that, you know, you were kind of crossing your fingers a little bit? I think what was the motivation was kind of finding out if I did have them. I sort of had a hunch that I might have them. And I did obviously some preparation and, you know, sort of trying to work out how my bike worked a little bit.

But really, I didn't have much of a clue about anything. But for me, that naivety was actually part of the pleasure. I mean, Rana, what about travelling alone and perhaps, you know, in your work as a journalist? You know, that's very much... Again, when people tell stories part of the reason that that the stories that connect with people are stories of you know as as lois has described um people who are by themselves out in the field getting the

story talking their way out of a kind of sticky situation and and making what they need to happen, happen. Yes, so travelling in Iran has different aspects. So travelling in Iran as an Iranian woman is a very different experience from travelling as a non-Iranian woman, which Louise has experienced. When you travel inside the country as an Iranian, most men think that you belong to them. So suddenly they think that they have to protect you. They think that you are in danger. They think that you are not allowed to stay at a hotel on your own.

So it's a very different experience for an Iranian woman. And I can't say that it's the safest experience. Because when you're on your own alone without a man without a husband without your father they think that you're accessible uh you are a loose woman so it's not something that i would enjoy doing and whenever i traveled i made sure that i traveled within a group of friends i was never on my own and being a reporter and in that situation does that magnify those those risks and those problems not really because even as a reporter you're always with a producer and a cameraman and in most of those jobs especially in iran are done by men so your cameraman is always a man you rarely have a camera

woman with you very often the case over here to be fair um so so i mean are you saying that really you know you really weren't often alone? You know, it wasn't possible. It's not impossible, but it's uncomfortable. A, getting accommodation for a single Iranian woman is not very easy. So hotels are not very keen. You have to find a private place who's happy to let you stay in a room. But generally, it's not something very common. As Louise says, we would confirm it's very unusual to see a woman traveling

alone in Iran. And if you do, as an Iranian inside Iran, you might not feel very comfortable about it. Lois, I mean, you know, what are you kind of thinking, listening to? Well, it's very different, I think, being an Iranian woman traveling in Iran. And a lot of Iranian women would tell me that they would be more likely to be harassed than I would, because I was seen as a visitor and people felt they needed to show that Iran was a good place and they wanted me to have a good time. But I mean, I had a wonderful time in Iran. I was totally on my own, riding my motorbike around, and I received so much incredible kindness and hospitality from men and women of all ages and backgrounds.

It was just staggering. I loved it in Iran. The problems came, as ever, when you have the run-ins with authorities. So it's men in uniform that pretty much cause all the problems anywhere in the world, really. So that was my main sticking point i had it yeah i had some tricky uh moments with the revolutionary guard and what happened they drove their car into my bike and i i don't know what i'm allowed to say naughty words on this program but i

let's say it all kicked off. And everyone understands certain words, no matter where they are in the world. And it probably wasn't the most diplomatic moment of my life. But anyway, it's a long story, which there's probably not enough time to go into now. But it was pretty... I was genuinely scared. It was quite hairy, because obviously, you know, the power that they have in Iran.

And I then felt quite vulnerable, obviously, as a woman, on my own you know foreign woman uh riding a motorcycle which is uh essentially a man's transport in Iran because women are forbidden from riding bikes in Iran in public so so I was a I was a I was like the circus had come to town everywhere I went it was a novelty so that was slightly overwhelming sometimes but the curiosity was always well-meaning from the regular people they just wanted to feed me i mean i put on so much weight just stuffing food into my bicycle i mean i wonder if if uh you guys have heard about uh viaco sola which is the hashtag of women responding to press coverage of the murders of young women who have traveled alone

and and you know obviously um had terrible experiences and and you know being damaged and the press coverage which can be quite judgmental i mean victoria are you familiar with the with that hashtag i'm not familiar with that hashtag but i do know the stories the very first time that i actually started traveling when i was an undergraduate and um my very first job was actually in eastern Europe. I had absolutely no idea what I was going to be doing there. And it was pretty much on the spot. I was sort of given an opportunity to go over to Eastern Europe. And I asked, when would you like me to go? And they said, tomorrow. I didn't know the language. I didn't know what I was doing. I'd never been to the country before. I was going to see someone who had met twice. All this particular person gave me

was a sheet of paper and a company credit card. That was it. And then we shook hands and then he left. And I was there having to do this project, which didn't exist, having to work with people who weren't there. And I ended up going to the university, knocking on people's doors and asking, excuse me, do you speak English? Excuse me, do you speak English? And then I sort of created a group. And that's how I started. But that was the beginning of having that feeling that I could do much more than I could ever do. I'm the only girl in my family.

I'm from a family of three brothers. I was never allowed to do a single thing. I'd never worked at all. I'd never travelled alone. I'd never lived alone. I was scared to death. But it worked marvelously. And it is, you know, it's interesting that you both seem to be describing

a kind of mix of excitement and fear, you know, that it could kind of not work out and things could be difficult. I mean, Carolyn, how do you think that the travel industry is starting to respond to women travelling alone and wanting to do that, but perhaps wanting to feel that they're going to be safe. Well, I travelled alone when I was 25 and, you know, I think sometimes a near-death experience is quite, what's the word, enriching. When you're still alive at the end of it and you feel really exhilarated because you've been through something really scary, that's when I think you really, really feel alive. I've been dumped in the desert,

I've been harnessed to a yacht that was, you know, stuck out in the ocean and, you dumped in the desert. I've been harnessed to a yacht that was, you know, stuck out in the ocean and, you know... Hang on, you've been harnessed to a yacht and you've been dumped in the desert. Are these real examples? Real examples, yeah. I was abandoned in the desert in the middle of Australia in December when it was, like, 150 degrees.

What did your dad do? No, no, no. I was travelling with a family and the wife and the husband fell out. And it was all female solidarity. So I got out of the car with her. And he drove off and left us. Oh, my.

And we had to hitchhike into Alice Springs with some guy who had a gun and a cattle dog. And he kept pulling off into the bush every 10 minutes. And we thought he was going to kill us. But he had to keep putting oil into the car. Flipping it. So actually, more women are travelling, and the industry, of course, understands the value of the female pound.

But I don't think we should, you know, over-egg the taking away the excitement that you have as well. Yeah, I agree. I think there's always a focus on, whenever women get to go to talk about travel, because I take part in various events of this kind, it always goes straight into the safety and the fear. And you know that at the same event

there's probably a group of guys talking about all the exciting things that they're going to do. And I always think, why can't we focus on that? Because I know from my own experiences the world isn't as scary as one might think it is if you just read the news. People are really friendly and curious and kind, and they want to help you.

And I think a genuine human response to seeing a woman alone in foreign countries, I hope she's OK, and I want to make sure she's all right. I really believe that, and I've experienced that all over the world. I'm sure. But perhaps it is equivalent to a lightning strike. But, of course, bad things do happen. Of course, and you hear much more about them

than you do about the positive experiences. Yeah, and we created a business around that. I mean, I lecture all day long about travel safety and I talk about, you know, kidnap and horrendous things that happen. But actually, if you've got a plan B and a plan C, then you know what to do. Something goes wrong. It's when you arrive in a place and your car doesn't turn up and then you've not thought about what you

might do in that situation but if you prepare then you can immerse and enjoy the environment i think it's also the case isn't it that if a young woman is traveling alone and god forbid something awful happens to her you know the the way that that is reported is often... Absolutely, that's the problem. It's often, you know, done in this kind of victim-blaming way. It's judgmental kind of way, yeah, exactly. Like the girls who were raped and murdered in Latin America, it was, why were they travelling by themselves?

If it was two guys, they would never say that, would they? I mean, it's often the case, isn't it, that if a young woman is travelling alone and something does happen to her, that the subsequent reporting tends to be quite victim blaming. I mean, sometimes outright, the kinds of questions that are asked. I mean, Rana, what do you think of that? You know, these stories do come up, but they're not treated equally. I think, you know, if it was a young man, different questions would be asked.

There's always a why are they travelling alone? Isn't that because the hazards are different? Because the possibility of a rape for a woman in an unknown environment is much higher than a man. That's why we tend to think that women are more vulnerable in those situations. And if a man gets killed while he's travelling alone, it's probably a fight. And then there is cultural sensitivities as well. So we hear about women in India who are getting raped.

We hear that in Egypt they're getting groped while they're just walking down the streets. So I think because culturally there are still so many countries that perceive women as vulnerable, fragile creatures that they are allowed to treat badly. That's why I think there is more sensitivity about women travelling alone. Absolutely, and there's legal restrictions and cultural restrictions. And when you overlay religion on top as well,

the world isn't equal, unfortunately, is it? No, it's not. I think the form of transport that you use can make a big difference and i noticed this by traveling by motorcycle you kind of elevated almost to male status in more traditional cultures and the guys will come up and they won't harass you or chat or give you a wink and a pinch on the bum they'll say oh what size engine is your bike or you know and and then you're straight on to a different level yeah Yeah, the level of conversation is different. And I remember in Peru that was very much the case.

I got off the bike, sort of changed into my sundress and flip-flops and potted around the town square. And then it was all, you know, back to the catcalls. And I was like, well, I'm sticking with the leathers and the oily fingernails, you know. Because it really transforms how people respond to you. And women tend to to like it as well you know you'll get sort of old ladies in Iran kind of hugging me in the street and saying oh well done and you know they because many of them can only dream about exactly yeah

there's an Iranian woman who travels on her own all over the world and she her her Instagram page has about 80,000 followers and uh when you read people's responses to her posts, they always say that, I wish I could be you. Absolutely. My only dream is being able to do what you're doing. That's why they're so welcoming to a woman who's there on her own because that's why they aspire to. Rana, I think you've had family members from Iran come and visit you here.

And I wonder for the female members of your family what that experience was like and what you saw happen from their perspective. That's also quite an adventure because, unfortunately, the Iranians can't travel easily to most countries. And so we can only go to Turkey and Syria. And who wants to go to Syria for holidays these days? So it's very difficult to travel to Europe or to the United States. When I moved here, I sent an invitation letter to my uncle and my aunt, and she's an elderly lady in her 70s and quite religious. She wore the headscarf, And for them, coming to London was the most adventurous thing they'd ever done in their life.

And it was so cute to watch them, because when they arrived, the first thing on our way from the airport to my flat was that, wow, look at how different the cars are, because most of the car manufacturers in Iran are owned by the government, so there are only four or five types of cars there. And then she said, women are so modest here.

And they don't wear that much makeup. How come they don't wear that much makeup? I'm sure you've noticed that in Iran, because women are forced to cover their hair, they concentrate too much on their faces. So they look like Japanese dolls because they wear so much makeup. And then later on, they came back for my wedding, and she looked at the dress and said,

but that's not revealing. How come women are so modest here? And the bit which was very sweet is that after a few weeks, she went and she bought a smaller, shorter coat because she felt that she didn't have to cover up that much. And then for the wedding, she said, actually, I thought maybe I won't wear my headscarf, but I'll wear a wig. And we thought, a wig? What's wrong with a wig?

And then they went and they bought a wig which suited a 20-year-old, not a 70-year-old. Oh, no, I'm all for that. I'm sorry. I'm going to have to put my foot down. Absolutely. So she was transforming and she became less religious. They only came here twice, but she's now a completely transformed woman. It makes me sad that not many Iranian people,

especially women, are not able to travel more and to realise that the world is not the way the Iranian media inside the country are wanting them to think it is. I mean, to what extent is travel wrapped a lot, too. And obviously, you know, your site has a lot of kind of tips and explanation about how you travel as much as you do and often on a budget. Right. I mean, can you give us some take home information? Yeah, absolutely. For the itchy-footed listener. Basically, save. You know, save as much as you can. Rather than taking the plane, you can take the train. Rather than taking the plane, you can take the train.

Rather than taking the train, you can take the bus. Rather than taking the bus, get yourself a hundred pound car, take about four or five people, bungle everybody in, take a tent and then just go. Basically, there's loads of places. There's Airbnb, there's couch surfing, there's camping. You don't really have to have a million dollars to go outside at all. And what about destinations? Because I know you have this, you know, this kind of phrase that you use over and over again, just go, just go, just do it. And it's not always about kind of having the, I don't know, aspirational place that everybody, the must, you know, the bucket list, list of places ticked off a list. It's about kind of where can you get to and just kind

of going and experiencing that i mean what i say is you don't have to go to exotic places you don't have to go across the waters um if you're in britain going to yorkshire if you live in london is like going to another planet you know so just go to the next city and in a really good way just to check yeah in a In a massively good way. I'm an orphan, so, you know. Yeah, exactly. But going to another town, going to another part of your country

is just as good and just as valid as going to the other side of the world. So, you know, there's a lot of discussion about what travel is. There's a lot of discussion about how people travel. But as far as I'm concerned, you know, as long as you're moving, that's travel mean what do you think carolyn about this idea of just kind of sticking a pin in a map and or you know just getting where you can get to and then experiencing

it well absolutely i spent a year traveling around australia and i met this guy as you do and he was actually called Bruce. And we decided to go to Cape York, which is a northernmost... This isn't the one that left you in the desert. He's the one that got me out of the desert, actually. Good old Bruce, eh? Hence why I felt obliged to spend a bit of time with him. But we decided to go to Cape York, which is the northernmost point of australia and so you drive through um you know ravines and you you can swim with saltwater crocodiles and you go through

aboriginal camps and oh my god it was magical but when i went to australia i didn't plan to do that didn't even know that that existed i absolutely love the idea of not knowing where you're going to end up. And I would have done the same, yeah. Lois, what about you? I mean, how many of your adventures are planned and how much room for spontaneity do you leave? It's tricky because doing a transcontinental trip, you have to get your visas organised.

But I'll have a starting point and a finishing point. So I did, like I said, Alaska to Tierra del Fuego and then London to Cape Town. And so I did like I said Alaska to Tierra del Fuego and then London to Cape Town um and so I kind of I know when I'm leaving I know where I'm trying to get to but what happens in between is always up for grabs I mean I'll get my visas as much as I can but sometimes you have to kind of wangle them as you go and and that's part of the fun and and I love the flexibility of just thinking oh I wonder what's down that that track or I'll stay here for a bit longer or I'll pop into a neighbouring country.

And, you know, so that is to me the essence of adventure. And what about getting lost? I mean, you know, the idea of getting lost. Oh, you've got to relish it. Yeah. Yeah. Because it gives you a panic to start with. But I never, I'm very kind of low fire.

I don't use any gadgets or, you know, GPS. I only use paper maps. And I mean, in Iran, that was absolutely disastrous the terrible maps uh some of them were pre-revolution you know all the street names were wrong but that means that you have to ask people directions and that's when all the fun stuff happens because some guys say yeah exactly you know they're pointing this way and that oh they say i'll show you and then it's like well come back to my you know mum's house or come to a party and and I think they don't know but they still try to help and they send you to the wrong place exactly yeah but you know there's that saying the interrupt interruptions of the journey and that I think is that's when it gets interesting well as if you're

just sort of following a tiny little screen in front of you you know you'll get to where you want to go but it's probably not nothing fun will happen along the way so and what's the trip that changed you the most because presumably you know the joy of this as well is that you come back a little bit different I mean Victoria and Rana you've both made your homes in different countries than the ones that you were born in tell me a little bit about the decision to settle rather than to keep passing through well to me it was already a decision made I knew that going back home would be difficult so when I sat down with my parents and they said, if you want to take this job, know that you cannot come back until this regime is in power. But I was 25 and I just wanted to go away. And I was looking for an adventure and being the

first woman in my entire family to leave the country on my own, going and exploring the unknown. So I accepted it, although at the time many of my uncles and aunts were telling my parents that you shouldn't let her do this, this is crazy. But my parents, luckily, are more open-minded than their siblings. So I said, no, this is your life. You can do it. But I remember that when I arrived here, BBC accommodation in Bayswater,

I was given a single bedroom and my view was a courtyard with bars behind the window. And I asked for the loo and it was a shared loo and I was such a pampered, only girl of the family. And I hadn't slept for 48 hours, and I had cried a lot and said goodbye to friends and family forever. And I sat in that room, and I pulled the curtain,

and I was looking at the courtyard, and I had to share a loo with other people who were staying in the accommodation, and I started crying, and I said, what have I done? What have I done? I have left my comfortable life behind and I can't go back and this is it and I was too proud to phone my parents and said please I want to come back or everybody will have to move over here how are we going to work this out I mean and and you know how how long did it take for you

to to overcome that and and how do you feel about it now because you know you mentioned earlier that you're you're a parent now and that gives you a particular kind of long view. Yeah, surprisingly, like Victoria, a few months later I went to Cannes for the film festival to cover it for the Persian service and I had a great time and I was partying with friends who came over from Iran and I loved it.

But the moment I got to the Heathrow airport I suddenly felt at home and I felt at ease I love the fact that people were queuing and were so polite and they were so polite and it was raining it wasn't like Cannes it wasn't like Cannes. It wasn't all warm and beachy. It was drizzly. It smelled of chips. And I thought, wow, OK, I now feel at home. And that's the moment I realized that this is where I'm going to be. And then a few months later, because there was a presidential election in Iran that turned sour and the relations between the BBC and the Iranian government were totally cut off. And that was the moment I realized I couldn't go back. At the beginning, it was difficult. Then I decided that, OK, that was the first chapter of my life, first 25 years.

And that's it. My home is here. And I can't look back. And I constantly be sad about my past. The past is past. Yeah. And coming home is coming home. coming home is coming home coming home is coming home okay i mean to what extent is is being a traveler a part of your identity um tell me a

little bit about that carolyn god i only feel normal when i'm in an airport i really do i just get this little buzz and then i get all excited even if i'm just going on a business trip to paris or something i just i just feel at home when I'm traveling. And when I get home, I can get a bit depressed. But actually, it's proven, isn't it, that travel when you have new experiences, your brain releases dopamine. So it is actually addictive. It is a drug that you can that you can be addicted to. And I think it's a lot better than some drugs. Right.

Absolutely. Where to next then with that in mind so top of my bucket list is Tahiti you just have to say just do it or just go or something yeah yeah so Tahiti is really on my list I am the cliff top yoga woman so I did do that in Sri Lanka last year there's a lot of cliff top yoga about I think it's fine I am I am and then I mean the's fine. I am, I am. I mean, the good thing about my job is that I get to work all around the world. So I've just come back from Silicon Valley. But even there, I can make my home within an hour of arriving.

I found the juice bar, the Korean spa, Equinox gym, you know. You just go to the airport and you feel at home. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yes. Actually, I got stuck on a train the other week i was delayed for nine hours and i convinced my fellow passengers i actually lived on the east coast main line believe me there's been months in my life when i felt like i do and lois i mean presumably not not an amble through duty free doesn't exactly signify home to you. Oh, I love those big bottles of gin. Where are you going next? I'm kind of torn between... I love home.

I'm not one of these sort of people that wants to be on the road for years at a time. And I'm quite, you know, quite homely. I'm in a band in London. You know, I like gardening, you know, I'm growing tomatoes. So I always sort of slightly torn in that, you know, I'm always itchy and kind of wanting to hit the road and see somewhere and i've got you know all the countries i want to visit um but it's it but i definitely need my

time at home as well and i in a way i think being at home for a while it kind of you need to you need to get bored you need to get that itch to to get out there again but but you know my work i do lots of sort of events and writing and stuff so i'm always on the road somewhere really and so sometimes i'm thinking you know god couldn't i wouldn't mind just a couple of days at home and you know a bit of deadheading in the garden practice a banjo you know yeah yeah exactly yeah so um but i i mean i yeah i've got a quite a good balance of it really but my big you know

I've done these sort of three long distance motorcycle trips they've been quite a few years apart it's not

I'm not sort of endlessly roaming around on the bike you know so for now you've arrived yeah yeah

because I've just been in Iran a lot recently and I'm at home at the moment and sort of enjoying that so

well that sounds perfect that's all we've got time for tonight thank you very much indeed to my guests,

Lois Price, Rana Rahimpur, Carolyn Pearson, and Victoria Adegancho. I'm Sarah Trelevan, and for over a year, I've been working on one of the most complex stories I've ever covered. There was somebody out there who was faking pregnancies. I started like warning everybody. Every doula that I know.

It was fake. No pregnancy. And the deeper I everybody. Every doula that I know. It was fake. No pregnancy. And the deeper I dig, the more questions I unearth. How long has she been doing this? What does she have

to gain from this? From CBC and the BBC World Service, The Con, Caitlin's Baby. It's a long story, settle in. Available now.