Woman's Hour - Leader interviews: Reform UK's Ann Widdecombe for Nigel Farage, Wimbledon

Episode Date: July 1, 2024

Gabby Logan joins Krupa Padhy to talk about her new book The Midpoint Plan. She’s challenging the stereotype of middle age. With fewer insecurities, children leaving home and perhaps a bit more money in the bank, she believes we should see it as the best point in our lives. Plus, if we look after ourselves in midlife, we’ll be happier in old age.Monday 1st July marks the first day of this year’s Wimbledon. Players will be donning their whites to play at the All England Club. Molly McElwee, freelance sports journalist joins us live from Wimbledon to discuss the women we should be on the lookout for and who might rise to the top over the next two weeks.Woman’s Hour has invited the leaders of all the main political parties for an interview in the run-up to the General Election. Today, in place of the Reform UK leader Nigel Farage, Krupa is joined by Ann Widdecombe, the party’s Immigration and Justice spokesperson. France's Far Right National Rally made big wins in the first round of France's snap elections. The National Rally party came first with 33 percent of the vote, with the left wing Popular Front alliance on 28% and President's Emmanuel Macron's centrist alliance suffering the largest losses and coming third with just over 20 percent of the vote. In the past, supporters for National Rally have predominately been men but now French women are said to be bucking the trend and supporting the National Rally. Marta Lorimer, lecturer in politics at Cardiff University explains what these results mean.Summer is here, which means it's wedding season, and brides-to-be across the country are asking themselves the eternal question: what do I wear for the occasion? Kathryn Wheeler, who married earlier this year, decided to do something that old superstitions advice against: make her own wedding dress. In the process, she learned much more than just sewing skills. She also learned a life lesson - to embrace imperfections. Presenter: Krupa Padhy Producer: Kirsty Starkey

This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK. I'm Natalia Melman-Petrozzella, and from the BBC, this is Extreme Peak Danger. The most beautiful mountain in the world. If you die on the mountain, you stay on the mountain. This is the story of what happened when 11 climbers died on one of the world's deadliest mountains, K2. And of the risks we'll take to feel truly alive. If I tell all the details, you won't believe it anymore. Extreme. Peak danger. Listen wherever you get your podcasts.

BBC Sounds. Music, radio, podcasts. Hello, this is Krupal Bharti and you're listening to the Woman's Hour podcast. Hello, good to have you with us at the start of this week. Gabby Logan will join us on why the middle years of our lives should be some of the best and the changes that have worked for her. Her new book covers it all, midlife meltdowns, friends, mental health, exercise, diet, fashion, sex and much more. All of life is a choice, she writes. And whilst we are dealt certain genetic hands, we can all make more positive choices to live a better life. So

what positive life choices have you made in midlife to live better? What has turned things around for you? It might be going back to education, a divorce or a new relationship, a new exercise regime. We want to hear your stories. Do get in touch. It's at BBC Women's Hour on social media. It is, of course, a big week on the election front, not just here in the UK, but in neighbouring France as well,

which if you've seen the headlines this morning you'll know that the country's anti-immigration national rally finds itself in lead position for the very first time after that first round of voting. And some polls suggest that women made up the largest part of that vote. We're going to unpick this and ask why this might be the case and why the party might increasingly be appealing to women. Closer to home, we've been hearing from all the leaders of the seven main parties ahead

of Thursday's general election. In about 10 minutes time, we will hear from Anne Whittacombe, the Reform Party's spokesperson on immigration and justice. And many believe it is bad luck to make your own wedding dress. Well, i'm going to introduce you to one bride who wasn't buying any of that and made her own attire for her big day katherine wheeler will tell us how and why she did it and the wider life lessons she learned that go beyond stitching you can text the program the number as always 84844 text will be charged at your standard message rate over on social media that's x and instagram Instagram, we are at BBC Women's Hour. You can email us through our website.

And if you'd like to pop us a WhatsApp message or voice note, that number is 037001444. All of our terms and conditions can be found over on our website. Please do get in touch on any of the stories that you hear. So let's kick off with some sporting news though. Today marks the first day of this year's Wimbledon and players will be donning their whites to play at the All England Club and we want to take a look at which women we should be keeping an eye on during this summer's tournament.

Molly McKelvie is a freelance sports journalist joining me now live from Wimbledon. Welcome, Molly. Morning. Thank you so much for having me good morning day one of wimbledon who are the british women that we should be keeping an eye on in this upcoming tournament well i mean the obvious place to start i guess is emma raducanu uh us open former us open champion she's back at wimbledon for the first time in two years um she's on centre court today.

She's the second match on centre court. And it feels like a big moment for her. It's kind of about six months into her comeback from really bad injuries last year. She had three surgeries, two on her wrist and one on her ankle, which kept her out of most of the season, about eight months on the sidelines.

So to see her back, I'm sure the British fans are going to be very excited to see her on centre court. She's playing 22nd seed Ekaterina Alexandrova, who's not an easy draw really. She reached the fourth round last year, so she's

definitely got the game for grass. It will be a bit of a challenge, I guess, for Emma Raducanu to try and get through to the second round here i'm sure the crowd will definitely lift her and be behind her she's spoken in recent weeks about kind of how her mindset has maybe changed she's thinking a lot more positively than she was maybe in the in the weeks at the beginning of the of the season so yeah excited to watch her and see how her Wimbledon pans out. She's always a big story, obviously. The other Brit that I think everyone

will be looking out for is Katie Bolter. It's the first time she's ever been seeded at Wimbledon, which is a big moment. It means kind of your draw should, on paper, be a bit easier. And it's her second year as a British No. 1. We've seen her in recent weeks defend her title at nottingham have a good run in eastbourne as well she's on good form always

good on the grass and um yeah she she's coming in here i think with a mindset she seems like she's settled into that british number one status and and the the more the eyes that she's got on her now um she she's she's i think she's becoming more used to that. And I think she should have a good run here too, based on the form she's been in so far. Yeah, so Emma and Katie will be keeping an eye out for them. Half of the women will be playing tomorrow, half today. Who will we see on the courts?

So today, everyone, I guess, should be looking out for Coco Goff in particular. She's second seed. She's US Open champion last year and always a huge crowd draw. And yeah, one of the kind of favorites for the title as well. I'd say she'd be someone to look out for. She's my tip for the title, if I'm honest. And then you've got Igor Sviontek will start tomorrow.

She's the world number one. She's never had quite the same impact on the grass at Wimbledon as she has at other slams. She's coming off winning the French Open. Those are full of confidence, but we haven't seen her play on grass yet this year. So it'll be interesting to see how her first round plays out tomorrow.

She's playing against Sophia Kennan, who is a former Australian Open champion a very tricky draw so that would be one to definitely look out for too and and the other person I think who's a bit of a question mark is Irina Sabalenka she's a third seed won the Australian Open earlier this year and should be one of the favorites but in her press conference over the weekend spoke about her shoulder injury and how she's even doubtful she's not 100% that she's even going to come out on the court on Tuesday.

She should be one of the favourites, but if that injury wipes out her Wimbledon, then I think it will throw the title even wider open than it already is. Molly, you mentioned Coco Gough there and that your money's on her. If we reflect on the past six ladies singles champions who have lifted that winning trophy, they've all done so for the very first time. So it really is anyone's game, isn't it?

Definitely. I mean, it's such a good point. The last few years have been so unpredictable when it comes to Wimbledon. Last year's champion, Marquessa von Drussever, is obviously in the draw this year, but she's had a really up and down year since winning Wimbledon. So it's kind of flying under the radar,

which is bizarre if you think about it when she's the reigning champion. I think the fact that it's so open in women's tennis makes it so exciting. We've got some players who are really dominating at the minute, like Igor Svantec, world number one, like I mentioned. But because she's a bit of an unknown on grass she's only ever reached the quarterfinals here um it means that it's kind of anyone's game wimbledon offers a different kind of challenge because of the grass and the fact that players don't get as many weeks to play on it as the other surfaces so um yeah we

could see more shots um this year no Yeah, there are several women also returning after having children. Who can we expect to see? Yeah, today we've got Naomi Osaka back in action. The first time here at Wimbledon since 2019. A really big deal. I think she'll have an impact here for sure. She's really been building her season since coming back from having her daughter last year. She's come into it with a new mindset as well.

She's spoken a lot in the last few months about kind of the perspective she's gained from having her daughter and also how it made her kind of realise how much she loves tennis and how much she loves to compete. So she'll, I mean, she's never been that comfortable on the grass. So I'm really intrigued to see how it will play out for her. But yeah, and we've also got Caroline Wozniacki returning for the first time since she gave birth um to two children and um her comeback has been really remarkable she had a great run at the US Open last year and um she but she's got a bit of a tricky first round she's against Alicia Parks who's an American who came to qualifying but she's kind of an up-and-comer, a young player who could really challenge Wozniacki's kind of very defensive game.

Yeah. You've shared on your X feed, your Twitter feed, that these are the two favourite weeks of the year for you. What are you most looking forward to? Well, I mean, yeah, it's hard not to fall in love with Wimbledon when you cover it. I'm sat here on the media balcony just watching all the first ticket holders kind of coming in and taking their seats in some of the outside courts. There's just a buzz around the place. I'm really, really excited to see how the top Brits in particular, Katie Walter and Raducanu, will fare because I think they're coming in with more confidence than in previous years. And I'd love, I want to see how that plays out. Another player I'm really excited to watch is Mira Andreeva. She's 17 years old. She's from Russia, but she's a huge talent. Last year, she reached the fourth round here on her debut.

And now she has former Wimbledon champion, Conchita Martinez as her coach. And she's, yeah, she's really growing in her game and growing into the tour. She's only 17. It's mad to think that she's kind of becoming more experienced. But I think this year she could really have an even better run than she did last year in reaching the fourth round. So she'd be like kind of my one to watch, but maybe not everyone would have heard of as much. Really good to get your tips. Thank you so much, Molly McKelvie,

a freelance sports journalist, joining us for the lowdown on Wimbledon, which kicks off today. And if you'd like more tennis talk, then on last Thursday's programme, we spoke to a sports broadcaster and host of the tennis podcast, Catherine Whittaker, about the controversy going on in the background on Wimbledon on how top level tennis handles allegations of domestic abuse.

You can listen back to Claire's full interview with Catherine over on BBC Sounds. And as ever, there is plenty more over on our sports pages at BBC News Online. Right, in the run-up to the general election, we've been inviting the leaders of several main political parties to speak to us here on Women's Hour. Earlier in the campaign, we spoke to the Green Party and Plaid Cymru first. Here's a reminder of some of what Reen Ap Yorthworth, the leader of Plaid Cymru, had to say. At our core, we're about creating a fair society and equality is at the heart of that. You know, equality for Wales is a big part of, obviously, what Plaid is about. But that ambition also can mean many things.

It's ambition for creating a prosperous society, but it's also that ambition for creating that kind of equal society that I have always aspired to. I firmly believe, I believe in proportional representation because that brings a plurality of voices to politics. And having that Plaid Cymru voice at the heart of Westminster, as we've had unbroken for decades, makes sure that Wales isn't ignored. And those issues that are important to us are always on the table. I look at the work that we've done as a party, which has brought us to a point

where three quarters of our candidates in the main target seats, if you like, are women. We will be represented, I'm hopeful, by a majority of women in Westminster next time round. You know, powerful, impressive young women. And that was Reen Ap Yorwith there, leader of the Plaid Cymru Party. And you can catch up with that full interview on BBC Sounds.

Just search for the episode broadcast on Wednesday, the 12th of June. We also spoke to Carla Denya, co-leader of the Green Party. Our manifesto includes an offer of equal pay and flexible working arrangements, an increase in the carer's allowance, which of course is relevant as so many women are also unpaid carers, making misogyny a hate crime, prioritising resources to end domestic abuse and violence against women and girls, extending the government's existing free childcare offer to 35 hours a week for children nine months and onwards, and supporting more women into politics so that we have better representation and can stand up for these rights and more. But there's also policies throughout our manifesto which, while not explicitly aimed at women, will benefit women absolutely, because women are more likely to be on the minimum wage,

which we're proposing to raise to £15 an hour and removing the ageist cap for younger adults. They're more likely to be public transport users and therefore benefit from investment in buses, more likely to be public sector workers, especially in the NHS, and therefore benefit from increases to public sector pay. Carla Denya, co-leader of the Green Party there, and that interview is also over on BBC Cells. Just search for the episode broadcast on Friday the 14th of June. And last Wednesday, on the 26th of June, we spoke to Christine Jardine, who was representing the Liberal Democrat leader Sir Ed Davey. And on Thursday, the 27th of June, the SNP leader John Swinney came on the programme as well. Today, it is the turn of

Reform UK. And joining me in place of leader Nigel Farage is Anne Widdicombe, the party's spokesperson on immigration and justice. Welcome, Anne. Thank you very much. Why should women vote for reform? Well, there are many reasons why anybody should vote for reform. But I think for women in particular, there are several policies that should help them. First of all, we believe and we believe quite fiercely in guarding women's safe places. And so we don't go for the transgender policy. We go for preserving women's lavatories, women's changing rooms, all places where women might feel vulnerable and which hitherto we have taken for granted that they would be protected from male invasion.

But now it is fashionable to do otherwise. Well, we will reverse that. Secondly, of course, the transferable tax allowances. Now, we hear a lot about childcare. We hear a lot about what parties are going to do for women in work, and that's perfectly reasonable. What we hear much less about is the women who choose to bring their children up, particularly when they're young, full time, at home, and you've got a family living on one wage, which is the earner's wage. Now we're going to introduce transferable tax allowances, so that will help a woman in those circumstances. And merely by raising the threshold to £20,000,

because women often are not well paid, particularly when they first go in the labour market, particularly after having children, we will raise the threshold to £20,000, which means that they will have a chance of keeping more of their own income. So your views on gender identity and trans rights are very clear. And thank you for outlining your position on childcare. We will try and return to the childcare issue during our conversation. But can I reflect on what's happened over the weekend? You had a reform candidate defect to the Conservative Party, Liam Booth Isherwood, and he said, and I quote, that he saw a significant moral issue in the party after what he called reports of widespread racism and sexism. He added that the failure of the party's leadership to address the issue means he no longer wants to be associated with it. I feel it's only fair to get your reaction to that. Well, of course, we've had defections from parties to other parties from the beginning.

So there's nothing particularly unusual in the fact somebody wants to defect. What I think I do take issue with is the allegation of racism and sexism. Now, it's perfectly true that in all parties, you sometimes get bad apples. And it's also true that some slip through the vetting processes. And given that we were trying to find 630 candidates almost from scratch, it was a miracle that we got as far as we did. So, yes, there will some mistakes have been made. But Nigel Farage has been very clear about this. When anything like that does come to light, he goes into action immediately and expels that person right there is

a different issue if I may just finish this there's an issue with volunteers they're self-selecting they roll up at party offices and they ask to go out canvassing or to deliver leaflets or whatever it might be and they are nobody knows anything about them i did that when i was a young person i went into the local conservative offices i said can i canvas can i do this they hadn't a clue what i was going to say uh so um that's normal that's normal okay well let's part the volunteers aspects was it well can i well i'd like to just finish this one sentence. When I was a Conservative, I was often challenged with exactly the same thing. I'd like to part the volunteers aspect and focus on the candidates specifically, because what is it?

I mean, I know I appreciate Nigel Farage saying that there are bad apples in the party and he takes issue with the vetting company, although they say that they haven't had enough time to prepare for the election. But there is something fundamental, many will say, about your party that draws in people who may have racist and sexist views. What are you doing about that? Well, I've already told you what we're doing, where it comes to light. Those people are expelled. But let me just say this, what I was saying as we finished the last conversation,

when I was a Conservative, I got exactly the same allegations. People were saying to me, well, your party is racist or your party is sexist. Now, actually, none of the parties can talk much about sexism because there have been scandals throughout Westminster, throughout this administration, on both sides of the House, involving poor behaviour towards women. So I really don't think that anybody can point a finger. We are a brand new party. There are going to be some people that we don't want. When we find them,

we'll get rid of them. Okay, I hear your position loud and clear. There have been accusations of misogyny against some of your male candidates. Specifically, I hear your position loud and clear. There have been accusations of misogyny against some of your male candidates, specifically the BBC's Laura Koonsberg found eight male candidates who had shared extremely derogatory comments about women on social media, including modern feminism belongs in the sewer of

self-hate from which it came, and describing women as gutter sluts and thick tarts. Is your leader, Nigel Farage, content that these men are still representing Reform UK? I mean, those sorts of comments are completely unacceptable. But as I've just pointed out, both the major parties in Westminster have had scandals about molestation of women,

never mind just making rude comments. And so it's not unique to us. Now, it doesn't make it any better, but it's not unique to us. And I'm not going to have us branded as some sort of naturally racist and misogynist party because we're not. I do want to put this to you, though. Mr Farage has publicly condemned three reform candidates for their racist and offensive language, and he's withdrawn party support from them over the weekend so are we to take from this that racial slurs are not acceptable in your party but misogynistic slurs are given that these men that we've just talked about who made these derogatory comments about women are still standing for election no i don't think you can conclude that at all i mean

you can conclude uh that we don't accept racial slurs. I don't know the detail of the other particular comments that were made, what the context was, what anything else was. All I know is that I regard that as unacceptable. But I, as a woman, feel very comfortable in reform. OK, let's look at the numbers specifically, Anne. Among the seven largest parties standing candidates in this general election, reform has the lowest percentage of female candidates. We're talking about 15 percent in numbers. That's 94 out of 609. Does that strike you as a fair representation of the population? You may have heard me say this before. I used to shout it long and loud when Cameron introduced his A-list.

I am not interested in whether somebody is male, female, gay, straight, black, white, old, young. All I care about is merit. And that is what is important. And so if a man and a woman are contending for a job, my criterion would be merit. Now, always, if you find that at the end of that process, there is a group that is underrepresented and there are meritorious people among it, you go out to find it. Let's talk about your official manifesto, which you call your contract, our contract with you. Your key pledges are around immigration, but this is Women's Hour. We want to talk about other policies that impact women.

The only time women are mentioned and is in the section about armed forces when servicemen and women are referred to. There's no mention of women's health or violence against women and girls. Do you have policies specifically for women? You have touched on the childcare, but beyond that? No, I've touched on also, I haven't just touched on childcare. I've touched on the transferable allowances. I've said very clearly that we will fiercely defend women's safe spaces. So yes, we have, and that's in the contract, we have policies for women. But I always take this line, if our policies are right, they will benefit everybody. And that is what is important,

not to divide the nation up into segments and say this will benefit, that will benefit. Everybody should benefit from our policies. Otherwise, they're not worth having. And to expand on what you said about childcare at the start of our conversation, reform has a policy that says, and I quote, the majority of mothers would choose to stay at home more if they could. I wonder what Reform UK says to women who are happy, A, with the number of children they have, but don't wish to stay at home to look after them. Instead, they want to or need to work, but have found countless obstacles in the way to support them getting back into work.

Right. I think the balance has tipped a bit too far. I mean, I think it's absolutely right what you say. Women should have choice. They should have absolute choice whether they go out to work or whether they stay at home. And I would defend that to the world. But what I would say is this, that over the last 20 odd years, there's been a tremendous emphasis on the women who go to work at the expense of the women who choose to stay at home. And we do know from various polls that are done, that if women could, more of them would want to stay at home than actually do at the moment. And we say, right, OK, let's get the balance right.

Let's help those women through the transferable tax allowances and through the raising of the threshold. Let's try to make it possible for a woman to really choose. And the sheer emphasis on women and work actually has worried me for some time when I think that there are women who are unwillingly working, unwillingly putting their children into childcare, unwillingly forfeiting the role of full-time parents while they're small. And that bothers me.

That actually bothers me that there are women who feel like that. Before I let you go, your party currently has no MPs. And just for clarity, you're not standing in this election. I wonder how many you expect to get and really how reform defines success at the moment. Well, that's a very standard question and I don't think we have in mind any particular number of seats. What I do know is that according to the polls we've gone from naught seats at the beginning of the campaign to 18 seats now and we may yet get more than that. So I don't really know, but to me success is defined as

a reform presence in Westminster. Anne Whittakin, here representing Nigel Farage, the leader of Reform UK. Thank you for joining us here on Women's Hour. And you can listen to our interviews with the leaders of Plaid Cymru, the SNP and the Green Party as well as representatives for the

leader of the Liberal Democrats on BBC Sounds or by going to our website where there's a dedicated election page. You can also watch the Women's Hour election debate if you missed that last week. That was Tuesday the 18th of June over on iPlayer or listen via BBC Sounds. And our leader interviews continue tomorrow where Nuala will hear from our final two parties, Labour and the Conservatives. Next, when I say the phrase middle age, I wonder what image comes to mind. Is it of a man in a red sports car with a young girlfriend or an angry woman having a hot flush? Well, this is the stereotype that my next guest broadcaster and author, Gabby Logan, wants to see change.

Gabby's podcast, The Midpoint, aims to highlight the joys that can come from reaching your midlife. And in her new book, she's brought together all the tips her guests have given her, as well as the things that she's learned along the way. Welcome to Women's Hour, Gabby. Thank you so much for having me. What did you want to write this book? Well, I started the podcast four years ago in the most self-serving way because I had this eureka moment where I realised I was in middle age but I mentally felt very much younger and physically looked obviously my age but I had so much energy, wanted to do lots of things and started to ask myself what it meant to be

middle age. So I thought I'd open up my contacts book and ask those well-known people I know if they'd come on and discuss what they were doing. And my initial idea was to have people who had done really interesting different things in midlife. So my first guest was John Bishop, who at 39 was earning his living from selling pharmaceutical drugs. And at 40 became a stand-up comedian, the likes of which, you know, we know today he's going touring the States this year and is huge globally. And then gradually my guest list started just to be people who were interesting and people I knew. And then I realised that, you know, there was so much more to this area of life, the physical side, the changes. And so I wanted to curate all the best of that and all the topics that we discussed and add in my experiences along the way. So it was compared to writing my first

book, which was a memoir, it was much tougher. It was much more of an academic exercise, but really interesting to do. And all of these conversations have led you to the point of thinking that midlife really should be the best chapter. Yeah, there's so many reasons why you could get a bit despondent about the physical changes and things. And, you know, we do value youth and we value newness, don't we, in society? And I feel we, as women, we have potentially come to the period of our life where we're starting to look at an empty nest. You know, if we've had children in our 30s, they might be about to leave home and go to university. Although lots of people tell me children never really leave home. They always fly back again.

But, you know, there's that period where you get a bit more time. If you've worked hard on your career career you might be pivoting and changing um as a man you know similarly you'd have those experiences of having kids but also um you've got uh to the point in your career where you might want to do something different and you know embrace maybe a hobby and take that on board as being something like a you know a career or a portfolio career as so many people these days have and we've all got to get used to the idea, I think, of having multiple careers, actually. Portfolio career, I like that word. So I think there's lots to be excited about

in the face of what sounds quite challenging from a physical and mental point of view, not least because of women's hormones. Well, that's just it, because throughout the book, there's this kind of constant message coming through, look after yourself, your mental well-being, your physical well-being. But there'll be women listening to this who are so run off their feet,

maybe looking after elderly parents, looking after young kids. You know, women are having children later in life, teenagers, whatever it might be, and just can't imagine having the time to look after themselves. How do you do it and why is it so important? The one thing that comes back again and again from all the experts, because in each episode I have a well-known person, but also an expert. And the one thing that comes back every time from the fitness experts, from the diet and lifestyle experts is it is never too late to make a change. So, you know, if you're feeling, well, I've never liked exercise since I was at school, start tomorrow, one step at a time, you know, couch to 5K, anything like that.

Very humble beginnings you can make huge physical changes to your longevity and your well-being because I feel if you're putting all that effort into your life the person you've just described there is this the classic sandwich generation where you've got older parents you've got teenagers who still really lean on you and need you you're working all hours god sends to make ends meet you've got all these people demanding of your time. But it's that classic thing about the oxygen coming down on the plane. If you don't look after yourself first, you can't look after anybody else. And so taking a bit of time to do some exercise,

to think about what you're eating will stand you in much better stead for old age. And what I'm looking at throughout the whole book is the potential that we're all going to live quite long lives because of the way medicine has changed, because the way we look after ourselves. And you want an active and of longevity in my family. On my mum's side, we've had four people live to be over 100 years old. So I have to assume that, you know, God willing, I might end up like them. And I want to feel useful and I want to feel purposeful and I want to feel energetic for as long as I can. So the point, I guess, through all of this midlife is to look after ourselves so that we can enjoy those years where we might have a bit more time and we're able to do things, not just sit and exist. So much of the book talks about your personal experiences. It's weaved in throughout, really.

And one of the early things you talk about is brain fog when you were live on TV. Talk us through that. I found out about perimenopause through my podcast. Mariella Frostrop came on and she started, she's 10 years older than me, and she started talking about the symptoms that led her to her menopause journey. And she's written about this and she's something of an expert really in this area and has done lots of campaigning. And after the podcast recording, I said,

lots of those things you talk about are going on with me at the moment. My memory feels like it's failing me sometimes in crucial moments. And there was this general feeling of not not so much anxiety but worry that I'd never had before feeling a little bit you know more anxious feeling a little bit more and not knowing why not knowing why no idea and then realized this was a list of perimenopausal symptoms I was ticking quite a few of those boxes and went on my own journey to discover so the brain fog is classic that's one of the perimenopausal symptoms a lot of women will recognise. And in the job that I do, live broadcasting all the time,

live sport, talking about, you know, many, many, many sports people, having to recall names, having to recall moments, I felt I was not as good at it. I kept worrying that I wasn't getting those names into my head. I wasn't getting those matches. I wasn't getting that result. And when I knew what it was, when I realised this wasn't just me with my brain full and that was it, you know, the database at the bank was full, I could do something about it. Personally, I went on journey of HRT and then started to look at what I could do to help my brain, making sure I could do memory exercises, trying to... Yeah, that stayed with me.

Yeah. And things like you know when you get a new set of bank details for somebody having a look at the number the account number and trying to remember it in one go just little tests that you do for yourself and also not recalling if you can't recall a word or the name or a film don't dive into your phone straight away and and google it trying to even it takes two minutes something so simple yeah it's really simple and your brain is a muscle it needs that exercise and we often get into kind of a silo or a little our own area of comfort and we don't expand our brain out of that because it feels slightly more challenging and that might be reading something outside of your comfort zone listening to something outside of your comfort zone challenging your opinions and not being in

an echo chamber where you hear the same stuff all the time. And it's easy, I think, to fall into that comfort zone. But actually, it's much better for us to try and challenge ourselves, particularly at this stage of life. The other personal story you mentioned is the death of your brother very suddenly when he was just 15 years old. I mean, I wonder what impact that had on your outlook on life, but also whether that re-emerged when you were in midlife. It did re-emerge when my son was approaching his 16th birthday. And that would have been three summers ago. And so I would have been 49, 48.

And I was obviously at this point experiencing perimenopausal symptoms, but I was on HRT and kind of felt much stronger much better than I had done in the previous few years but it really blindsided me how in the months building up to that I I started to I suppose relate to my mum and what she went through at that point in in all our lives much more than I ever had done because I lost a brother my siblings lost a brother but and I knew the impact that losing a child is the most difficult and traumatic thing for any parent to go through

because it's totally out of the natural order of life and the suddenness of his death. But I think approaching my son's 16th birthday, he was very similar. He wanted to be a professional sports person like my brother. He was very not dissimilar looking. And suddenly that really impacted in a very strange way from the point of view of me being a bit more protective than I might have

been I think as a mum at that age not wanting him to almost grow up and you know and experience things because you're scared of what happens next and reaching the 16th birthday I felt a relief almost that he could he could grow into adulthood. And and it was definitely something I'd say that slightly blindsided me, not least because he's got a twin sister who's the same age. But I think it was very much the son relationship that, you know, my mum and my dad obviously went through. Thank you for sharing that. This message is coming from Julie, who's 64, who said, I made a massive change. I stopped drinking at the age of 52. It completely changed my life. And Julie's message leads me on to the next part I want to talk about is what people should do in terms of changing their habits for the better to improve their lives.

All the experts point to movement, diet, and alcohol is a big one as well. And that might be reducing your alcohol intake it might be cutting it out completely it's clear that alcohol doesn't sit as well with women because of their hormonal changes post menopause or during the perimenopause women talk about not being able to drink more than a glass of wine and feeling like you've got a hangover and there's a there's a reason for that and that is because the enzymes due to the hormones change the way you break down alcohol but that also applies to sugar as well so women often talk about having a lot of belly fat when they get through this stage and that again is is to do

with the way that we metabolize our food and you might want to have a look and think do i need to cut down those foods that are very starchy it's all you know always better to increase your vegetables and your and your protein is so important as well not just in midlife yeah and so diet is definitely one area physical exercise honestly i cannot stress how much this is you know a huge part of getting old successfully and being able to move and we all want our bodies to feel comfortable as well we don't want to carry aches and pains because it limits what we do in life so that might be that you increase things like pilates and yoga so you've got flexibility but strength training that's the one thing for women it keeps coming up high intensity interval training actually is is less important than weights strength training because of our bones osteoporosis

which increases after midlife because a lot of women will think i need to get down the gym i need to get into those you know circuit classes or whatever else there might be but gentle strength training. Gentle strength training is the most important thing and then after that if you love running keep running if you love that feeling of hit keep doing it but try and incorporate some strength training and small steps. I realise I'm really lucky because I've done sport my whole life and I enjoy it and I get such an enormous boost out of doing it. A lot of people don't and it's hard mentally for those people. I was just chatting to somebody this morning and she said to me, but I hate going to the gym and I hate exercise. And find something that you like a little bit. If you hate something,

there's no point thinking that in a year's time you're going to commit to that because you won't. Movement, dance, whatever it is, just give it a go. go Gabby just before I let you go I do want to read this message that's coming from Julie because it's a it's it's fair to put it across I write in response to Gabby that everything in life is a choice I really feel that it isn't I'm of a similar age I find myself in an impossible situation I'm unable to choose what I do my husband suffers from Parkinson's disease and my mother Alzheimer's. They both live with me and every day I care for them. There is no time for much else. I'm not consumed by resentment but sadness and what I conclude is that life is a

lottery not a choice. For some the 50s may present itself as an opportunity for freedom, self-expression and perhaps well-earned indulgence but But for others, it's a continuation, but with seemingly more demanding and exhausting tasks than before, coupled with grief for the loss of a close family member who, despite being there every day, no longer are the people I once knew. What's your thoughts on that? It is definitely a lottery. There's no doubt that what some people have to deal with is a lot more physically

demanding and a lot more emotionally and mentally demanding than other people. And some people have more freedom in terms of time. The one thing I would say, though, is to try and look after yourself, even if you give yourself a 20 or 30 minute window, because that self-care will enable the rest of the day to go better. And at some point there will be a release, hopefully, and you will feel you have more time and you have more mental capacity to look after yourself. But I do appreciate that not everybody's experiences are going to be the same.

I think the hope of the book is that we give ourselves the chance, the best chance to have the most healthy and purposeful midlife we can. Julie, thank you for your message. And we do wish you all the very best with all of that. Just before I let you go, very, very briefly, it is a summer of sport coming up. We've talked about Wimbledon. You're working on the BBC coverage of the Euros and the Olympics.

What are you most looking forward to? Well, I've finished my Euro stint now because we've got into the knockout stages. So I'm back, obviously, here in the UK. Had a fantastic time in Berlin. I'm very pleased that England made it through last night because the quarterfinal will be on the BBC next weekend. And that'll be fantastic to see our colleagues in action there.

But I'm now gearing up towards the Olympics. It was the British trials this weekend for the athletics, which is a sport I cover at the Olympics. And that produced a few shocks, but a few brilliant results. And the anniversary games coming up in a couple of weeks time before the Olympics we have huge talent in the athletics pool so I'm really looking forward to seeing our young stars shine. Gabby Logan thank you so much and Gabby's book The Midpoint Plan is published this Wednesday the 3rd of July and lots of you getting in touch with your stories about wedding dresses I'll try and squeeze them in just

before we get to that conversation but next I want to turn to a conversation that's been big in our headlines france's far-right national rally made big wins in the first round of france's snap elections the national rally party came first with 33 percent of the vote with the left-wing popular france alliance on 28 percent and president emmanuel macron centrist alliance suffering the largest losses and coming third with just over 20% of the vote. In the past, supporters for the national rally have predominantly been men, but now French women are said to be bucking the trend and supporting the national rally. Joining me to discuss what these elections mean is Marta Lorimer, lecturer in politics at Cardiff University.

Welcome, Marta. Good morning. How much do we know about the number of women who were voting for the national rally? Well, we know that they were about the same number as men who were voting for the national rally. So just around 33% of the French population who voted this weekend voted for the national rally,

and the percentage of men and women was roughly similar. And how does that compare to previous elections? So this is actually quite, it's a newish trend. And by newish, I mean the last 10 to 12 years since Marine Le Pen took over the party. So it used to be the case that the national rally, like many other far right parties, would mainly attract male voters, whereas women tended not to vote for them for a variety of reasons. This has changed since, and we have really seen the national rally close that gender voting gap. And we are now in a situation where similar numbers of men and women vote for

the National Alley. So the change is there. The question then is why? What has changed? Is it the branding of the party? Is it their policies? The policies of the party haven't really changed much, but something has changed at the level of the branding. And particularly since Marine Le Pen has taken over the party, she has changed its discourse on some of the key topics and has really tried to de-demonize its image. And another thing that, of course, is important is that Le Pen is a woman and to some extent she has tried to use her image as a modern woman, a divorcee with children and a job to try to appeal to women, particularly working class women, who would have probably not really voted for her father's party. But, you know, branding is one thing, but women, you know, they will be looking at the policies.

They will be asking, what can this party do for me? What does or can the party offer women? So the party isn't really gearing its message towards women. He, at least Jordan Bar-Lela, who is the current leader, has tried to actually say, look, we care about women and we want to make sure that women feel safe. So he really tries to insist a lot on safety and also on saying we want to defend women's rights. Now, of course, this is something that he's bringing back to the national

rally's core agenda issue of opposition to migration, because the claim that he is making is that the reason that women are not safe in France today is because of migration, so that if they shut the border and reduce the number of migrants in France, then women will be safer. They have also tried to, again, insist on things like women's right. And part of the national rally has voted in favor of constitutionalizing the right to abortion. But it's really important to keep in mind that they haven't always held this position.

And in fact, if you look at how they vote on women issues in places like the European Parliament, they seem to hold fairly different positions to those that they held domestically. Yeah, so we talked about the anti-immigration stance that they have and how that's playing into their rhetoric and language about women's safety. What about reproductive rights?

So again, this is around reproductive rights. The main debate in France over the last year has been around abortion. And here the national rally has domestically divided on the choice of what to vote. So again, about half of the party voted in favor of the constitutionalization of abortion rights. And then much about 20 of them abstained and 10 voted against. This was a change from the positions that they had previously held. So the party historically was opposed to abortion. And in the European Parliament, for example, a few years ago, they refused to vote in favour of a motion that was condemning the reduction of abortion rights in places like Poland. Some feminist groups are said to have accused the party of using women's rights in order to

advance their agenda. And they have been processed in cities across the country. And it's important to stress, we're not talking about all women shifting to the far right, are we? No, exactly. We're talking about around 33% of the people who went to vote. So there is still, amongst certain categories of women, a rejection of the national rally and its politics. But we are also seeing the party becoming normalized amongst certain categories of women who would normally vote for the radical right. And that word normalize is key in this because that's a key change that we've not seen before in France.

This is, of course, just the first round of voting. What happens next? So what happens next is the next, basically today and tomorrow are going to be very interesting days because we are going to see the various parties make declarations about whether they will keep their candidates in a second round or whether in cases where three people have made it into a runoff they are going to withdraw their candidacy so by Tuesday so evening, we will know who is going to be running in the second round of elections. And that is going to make it a little bit clearer to

understand what the dynamics are going to be. So on Sunday, there is going to be a second round, and the results of that will tell us what the composition of the French parliament going forward is going to look like. And depending on who has, who's the bigger party is, that party will have a right to create the government. And Marta, I woke up this morning to a message from a very good friend who lives in Paris. And it was just one word, depressed. It was almost as if, you know, she had accepted almost that come Sunday next week, when vote counting is underway, that the national rally will win. But realistically, how likely a possibility is this? It depends on how we define winning. The national rally will quite definitely be the biggest party

because it is unclear where the others are going to get the votes to become a majority. The question is whether they have an absolute majority or not, so whether they're able to govern by themselves or not, and how big the majority is. So I think it's not, you can probably tell your friend not to give up completely, and that there is still some uncertainty around what the picture is going to look like. But it is very likely that the national rally will win. We just don't really know by how much. Of course, yes. And of course, this is a question that is dividing the French population. There are friends like there are people like my friends who are absolutely gutted by the outcome and others who feel reassured by it. And it's important to have that clarity. Thank you so much, Marta Lorimer, a lecturer in politics at Cardiff University, for joining us here on Woman's Hour.

We will, of course, be talking about this, I'm sure, in the coming days and weeks ahead here across the BBC as well. Just a few minutes to get a few of your messages in about wedding dresses. So many of you have been talking about this. Julia says, I upcycled a range of charity shop garments into two dresses for my wedding last year. I loved the process and having the wedding as an excuse to set aside a couple of Sundays each month for a year just to sew and create

what was a huge part of the preparations for me. Anne says, made my own wedding dress and still married to the man I married that day 56 years ago in September. And this one from Tricia who says, no one told me I shouldn't make my own wedding dress and still married to the man I married that day 56 years ago in September. And this one from Tricia who says, no one told me I shouldn't make my own wedding dress, but it's okay. We've been married since 1991. And the reason we've been getting your messages is because we're going to talk about a woman who's done exactly that, made her own wedding dress and learnt a lot along the way. She married earlier this year, Catherine Wheeler.

She decided to do something that old superstitions tell you you should not do, make her own wedding dress. And in that process, Catherine learnt much about sewing, but also learnt some great life lessons to embrace imperfections. And she joins me now. Welcome, Catherine. Good morning. Good morning. Tell me about the idea to make your own wedding dress. Where did it come from?

Well, I suppose I just love needlecraft in all its forms. tell me about the idea to make your own wedding dress where did it come from? Well I suppose I just love needle craft in in all its forms and so when you get engaged of course you immediately turn to the wedding dress and I thought a lot about it but it was mostly that I thought if I don't do this I think I'll always wonder what I could have done if I had have attempted it. So I kind of had a vision of what I sort of wanted and just went for it. I wasn't very experienced. I'd done a couple of things in my GCSE textiles, but beyond that, I hadn't really had much experience that I thought I could probably do it if I took my time and followed the instructions. So just so I'm clear, GCSE textiles to making your own wedding dress, that's quite the jump. You've described it as a moment of courage. I think it had to be. I think I had to be very comfortable with the idea that if I was going to

do this, it wasn't going to be perfect. There were going to be some wonky scenes, there't going to be perfect there were going to be some wonky scenes there was going to be some little quirks here and there um but I had to weigh that up and decide that actually to me it was worth it it was worth being able to go through that experience to be able to wear a dress that I wanted that I made myself um on my wedding day and and and understand that it wasn't going to be the perfect thing but that was worth it for me um so I suppose it was it was courage in the sense of weddings are always about perfection and and feeling perfect and and working towards a place of feeling perfect within my own ability within something I could do myself. Let's talk about the specifics of the dress

because it's complicated Catherine I'm taking a look at it I mean it's not a simple pattern at all for those who haven't seen it it's a full skirt a fitted bodice that I imagine needed a lot of adjusting and discipline to make it fit so well why did you choose that pattern and the fabric sat in hardly easy to work with? Well I'm glad you think it looks complicated. It was quite simple, actually, in the grand scheme of things. I mean, I couldn't have made a corset dress. So that kind of came into the process of deciding what to do. But again, working within my skill set, it had to be a fairly simple looking dress.

It had to have long sleeves. I was getting married in the winter. I didn't want to be cold um I looked at dresses that I already owned that made me feel great that I enjoyed wearing and took inspiration from them um and then I found a pattern that had those key elements and I worked from there so I adjusted a few things I wanted a different neckline I love square necklines I wanted to raise the waistband a little bit, the fabric. I wanted to move in a certain way. So I thought about when I walk down the aisle or I walk around throughout the day, how do I want the dress to move on me? So these are all elements that came into it. But yes, very much guided by what was achievable

within the time frame and what I could possibly do. I'm glad you mentioned time frame. It took you nine months to make this dress. I wonder, were there ever moments where you thought, what have I got myself into here? Absolutely, always constantly. I made a couple of trial dresses before moving on to the final fabric. It's the beautiful, beautiful satin. I didn't want to risk doing anything too wrong with that. So I made a couple of cotton trial dresses. But it wasn't constant. It wasn't every weekend.

And actually, for a lot of the time, I was just thinking about it, really taking my time. It might be that one evening I just do a couple of seams and then I leave it for a couple of weeks to come back to it. I really tried to pick my moments when I was feeling confident and I was feeling calm and I was feeling enthusiastic about it. So nine months, it's a short turnaround, but also quite a very long one when you're only taking it in pieces and that's what I was doing. a short turnaround but also quite a very long one when you're only taking it um in pieces and and that's what I was doing so yes the actual final dress itself I think only took about

four weeks in the end but by then I'd made the dress twice so really you've got a spare should have known what I was doing by that point I want to explore what this meant for your own self-growth you've touched on a bit of that. You talked about it being littered with imperfections, but I wonder, was that just you being hard on yourself? I suppose yes and no. There were things that were wrong with it. So very close to the end, I was redoing a seam and I was using a stitch ripper.

For those who don't sew it's like a very small knife it's quite sharp it has to go through the stitches and I cut my finger and I bled on the dress a couple of weeks before and it was a very small patch um but it was there and it became part of the dress and I think in that moment I had two choices I could have been devastated that I've bled on my dress at this very very late point and stained it or I could look at that and think well you know that's evidence I did this that I touched every inch of this dress I made every seam every every single part of it um and so that that was definitely a real mistake and then there's perceived things

as well where you look at it and you're very harsh and you think, oh, that's not quite straight or that's not quite as I would have liked it. But it's about just embracing it. Again, it was my dress. No other dress could be like that. No other dress would turn out like that. And it happened that way because of all the choices I made along the way. A dress that you've described as being like finding your soulmate.

What do you mean by that? I suppose when we, I haven't been wedding dress shopping, but when I hear about other people talk about it, you find your perfect match. You have that moment where you put it on and you think this clicks, this is perfect. When you're making it, you don't have that moment because you're it on and you think this clicks, this is perfect. When you're making it, you don't have that moment because you're there at every step. You're pulling up a vision in your head. You're choosing the fabric. You're approaching it in every angle. You're creating every seam, every connection. So you're building it piece by piece. And we feel very, very connected to our wedding dresses. They say a lot about us.

And so for me, it was about creating that perfect match rather than just stumbling across it. It became very purposeful. What happens to the dress now? It's hanging in my wardrobe. I haven't looked at it since. I managed to spill red wine on it as soon as I sat down for lunch. So just to add to the personalisation, I think in future I might try and rework it into something else. It would be a shame for it to just hang there. But I haven't returned to it. So the dress stays as it is, but your mindset and your growth, what are the lessons that have stayed with you that you've applied to other parts of your life i think just kind of accepting where i'm at in life i suppose um being proud of the things that i can achieve

uh that are within reach um accepting things accepting that life isn't perfect but that makes it more interesting and that is the theme of women's our life isn't perfect, but that makes it more interesting. And that is the theme of Woman's Hour. Life is not perfect, but we can absolutely work to make it better. Thank you so much, Catherine Wheeler there. That is it from Monday's edition of Woman's Hour. Tomorrow, we'll be rounding off our general election coverage of the last few weeks with Nuala speaking to Labour and the Conservative Party. You can catch up with all of our previous party leader interviews on BBC Sounds or via our dedicated election page

on the Woman's Hour website. Thanks for your company. Thanks for listening. There's plenty more from Woman's Hour over at BBC Sounds. Hi guys, I'm Ryland and this is How To Be In The Spotlight from BBC Sounds. It's the podcast where together we're going to hear what it's like to be thrust into the public eye by those who've lived to tell the tale. In this podcast, I'm going to be joined by 12

fantastic guests who are going to share how they've learned to navigate the perks, pressures and pitfalls of fame. This is Ryland, how to be in the spotlight. Listen on BBC Sounds. No pregnancy. And the deeper I dig, the more questions I unearth. How long has she been doing this? What does she have to gain from this? From CBC and the BBC World Service, The Con, Caitlin's Baby. It's a long story, settle in. Available now.