Woman's Hour - Lip fillers, Dirty God, Teen mental health

Episode Date: June 26, 2019

Vicky Knight, star of new film Dirty God, discusses how her experience of a fire influenced her role in the film.In the next in our series about teenage mental health, Catherine Carr speaks to four young people aged between 13 and 19 about their experiences.Love Island season is here and speculation is rife about which contestants have had cosmetic procedures. The most common appears to be lip fillers; Hyaluronic Acid which is injected into the lips for a temporarily inflated pout. But why is this procedure so popular, how is it administered and what are the risks? Jenni speaks to Megan Orr who has had lip fillers, Nici Cunningham whose daughter has enhanced lips and Clare Coleman. a journalist who’s written extensively about the subject.

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BBC Sounds. Music, radio, podcasts. Hello, Jenny Murray welcoming you to Wednesday's edition of the Woman's Hour podcast. If you're a fan of reality television, you will have noticed women's lips have been getting bigger and bigger. Why does the Instagram look seem to require lip fillers and what might be the risks. In our series about the mental health of teenagers today, it's the young people who talk about feeling low or anxious and try to pinpoint what caused their distress. And the serial, the third episode of Why Mummy Drinks. A new film which has just gone on general release has been receiving rave reviews from the critics, particularly for the woman who plays the central character. Jade is performed by Vicky Knight,

who has never acted before. The story of Dirty God is that of a young mother whose face and body have been burned by an acid attack carried out by the father of her child. We see her trying to adjust to life at home, with her friends and with work colleagues, with scars that are all too plain to see. Well, some make-up and prosthetics were used to enhance Jade's scars for the camera, but underneath, the scarring is genuine. Vicky Knight was scarred in a fire when she was only eight. Vicky, how did the approach to appear in this film

come about when you hadn't done any acting before? A few years ago I was on a documentary that I had a really bad experience with. So the casting director, Lucy Pardee, she found me on my social media and she was looking for someone with real scars and she came to me and said we want you to audition for this role. In the beginning I said no and it took her a whole year to convince me to do it and the thing that did convince me was I was going to play a character and not my own story

and I'm so glad I did it. But what did you think when you began to realise that your own scars would be shown up in close-up detail? In the beginning, I didn't know, as not a professional actress, I didn't know what shots were going to be used for what. Because we didn't film it in chronological order, we filmed it all back to front. So when my director, she said to me, can we do a close-up of your scars,

I actually broke down on set and I just was thinking, why do you need these? Why do you want it so close? I mean, I've hid my scars for 16 years now and they were mine to look at, no one else's. And I sort of panicked and thought, well, now the world's going to see it. But when I see the film for the first time and see them close-ups on the big screen,

all the bad thoughts went, it was just like, wow, these are so beautiful, they're a piece of artwork, and it just, yeah, it's just crazy. Now, your scars came as the result of a fire when you were very, very young, only eight years old. What happened? I was, yeah, I was staying with family and a fire broke out and I lost my two cousins

and the man that saved my life, he also died. And I was left with 33% burns to my upper body. I've got no use in my left hand. And, yeah, scarring from my fingertips to my neck, chest. So it was difficult growing up with scars as well because I was bullied a lot in school and college. People would threaten to burn the rest of me or burn my house down. I'd be beaten up in the street all the time

just because people didn't like the way I looked. What sort of treatment had you had in hospital? I mean, that's a huge amount of burning. Yeah, I had... Sorry. I had skin grafting and I had them every year for 11 years. So every year after the fire, I had to have, like, two or three operations to release the scarring.

So I was in and out of school, and, yeah, I didn't have a lot of friends, and the friends I did have were joining in with the bullies, but then I was so desperate to have friends in school that I started joining in with what they were saying, and I mean, like, taking the mick out of my own self to make other people laugh. And yeah, I'd say it kind of worked because I did get a group of friends after that, but now I realise that they were just as bad as the bullies.

Now, we see Jade as she leaves hospital. That's the introduction to her. And she tries to readjust to her life at home. And then when she finally gets into the workplace, she suffers from the most awful casual jokes. You know, some bloke walks past and cracks some joke about plastic surgery, which is just horrible. To what extent do you still get that sort of treatment? I think, like, when... Yeah, I mean, when I was in school and college,

it was horrendous every day. I mean, it became so normal to me to hear this. So when people complimented me, I would have rathered an insult than a compliment. But now, I think, since the film and everything like that i sort of yeah i still get it but i don't take any notice of it and i've trained my mind in just to ignore it because they're the ones with the problem not me you did have to wear a plastic mask for part of the film which obviously jade has to wear when she first comes out of hospital.

And then she tries to cover herself with a burka and actually goes out completely. How much did you try physically to hide yourself like that? No one ever see my scars at all. Even when I was in school getting changed for PE or sports, no one would see my scars. I was in a completely separate room. They only saw what they could see was my neck and my hands. And even on the hottest day of the year, I would go out in a scarf, jumper, gloves.

And my mum always used to say to me, take that jumper off, you're making me hot. And I think it was only up until last year that I became, you know what, yeah, this is me. If you don't like it it don't look at it um but I'm proud of them why shouldn't I be you know they I blamed them for so many years and yeah it's it's me and I love my scars. Jade actually becomes fixated in the film with trying to find a plastic surgeon who can repair her skin. We won't go into what happens because we don't want to give it away. But what dreams of surgery that might make you perfect have you had?

I mean, you've obviously had an awful lot of different surgeries through your life, but has there ever been that moment where you thought some magic person can fix it? Yeah, growing up by yeah i became obsessed with the idea of having plastic surgery or to change the way i looked my email doctors all around the world australia america of course they're going to come back and say yeah well if you pay a certain amount we can do it and that sort of gives you a false hope and i mean now like right now even if i won the lottery I would never change the way I look seriously I wouldn't never I wouldn't I wouldn't get any plastic surgery done because

yeah this is me if you don't like it don't look at it and why should I change myself to make other people happy could you have said that to me before you started making this film? No, never. You actually saw yourself up on the screen? Never, no. I mean, two years ago I was, yeah, I was very depressed, very suicidal. I didn't want to live with my scars anymore. I got to the point where, yeah, I give up. I just didn't want to live with it anymore. And I never had any psychotherapy or anything up until two years ago when I was at my lowest.

So from growing up with it, I had no professional help. It was just me and my mum that dealt with it. And yeah, I just hit rock bottom, I guess. And now I just, it's crazy looking back to think I was that low in life. And yes, it's mad to think where I am now. There does seem these days to be an obsession with a look we're going to be discussing lip fillers later in the programme. What impact are you hoping this film will have on the Instagram generation? The message that I would like people to take away

or to give to them is being different is okay. Everyone is beautiful in their own way and why are we all going to look like, why do we want to look like each other? The world's going to become boring if we look like each other or want to wear the same clothes as someone else. And yeah, I mean, I'm different and I think my scars are quite

cool so I stand out and standing out is good. Now I know that you now work in the burns unit where you were actually treated. Yes. What sort of work are you able to do there with people who may be suffering as you did? I think I mean I can tell my story and i'm a good role model to i mean for someone who who gets burned in the beginning and as an adult mine happened as a kid so i grew up not knowing any different but as an adult you've already lived your life half your life and then this happens and my job yeah i mean it's amazing what i can do i can sit and talk to someone and and you can see that it's this sort of thinking, well, this ain't the end

because there is a life after having scars and if I can become a healthcare assistant and now an actress, then anything's possible. Will there be more acting? There will be. Because I've seen the film. You are good. Thank you.

Yes, I've got an agent now. So we've got some auditions coming up so hopefully i'll be back on the big screen soon vicky knight the very best of luck with thank you both of your careers and thank you very much indeed for being with us this morning thank you and still to come in today's program those those lip fillers. Why have they become so popular? And what are the risks? And the serial, the third episode of Why Mummy Drinks. Now, earlier in the week, you may have missed two of the MEPs from the Brexit Party

who spoke to Jane on Monday, and then yesterday, two more new MEPs from the Lib Dems and the Greens. And if you've missed the live programme, you can catch up by downloading the podcast. It's on the BBC Sounds app. Now, for the past week or so, we've been discussing teenagers and their mental health. We've spoken to teachers, doctors and parents about what they can do to help if they're faced with teens who are distressed. Well, today, Catherine Carr speaks to four young people ranging in age from 13 to 19 to hear from them directly about their experiences. And we won't be using their names. With my family, especially my immediate family,

none of us have ever really struggled with mental health issues. So it's not something we really knew about. It did feel kind of scary. And I think, especially for me me I wanted to think like it was a physical issue because then it could be kind of easily treated like you just take some medicine and it could go anxiety is something that takes a long long long long time to get over with kind of intensive therapy and things and so that was just a whole big scary kind of new world we were definitely in denial for a while now I think that was probably the wrong thing to do looking back

I think if I had quite help for it sooner and kind of admitted to it sooner than maybe it would have kind of gone quicker and how did your friends respond they only really started noticing more when my eating disorder started to develop and that's when they kind of started to talk to me about it more and kind of try and support me as much as they can. When it got to the point my parents found out I was quite ill and my weight was just kind of dropping. We had to go through the GP so my parents took me to the GP who then did a referral to CAMHS. I mean I am grateful for that. I really was not in a good place when I was seen by CAMHS though. Can you remember what it was like inside your head in one

of those days say just prior to your parents finding out, seeing the doctor and then getting that appointment at CAMHS? I wouldn't want to wake up. I think people do sometimes think that it's a choice to have an eating disorder, it's a choice to want to lose the weight and stuff, but that is not the case. I would wake up every single morning and just not want to face the day. I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy is hell you would literally wake up and not have a spare moment in your head to think about anything else it's exhausting yeah I was very very tired and went through a very very low patch which lasted quite

a while I go out and see my friends quite a lot I work in Curry's PC World and then I go to college every day, try and do as much things as possible to get my head clear. What do you mean by that? I sort of have bad anxiety sometimes, so if I'm doing things with other people it just makes me forget and then I can sort of focus on what I'm doing with them. Could you describe for somebody that's never felt anxious what it feels like and how does your day get changed by those feelings?

It's like there's so many things just shooting around at once and you don't know which one to go to. It's all like, ah, like all fuzzy and... Fuzzy in your head? Yeah. You just feel a bit empty as well. What am I supposed to do with it? Just a little emptiness.

I know that it doesn't always cause an effect, like this thing happened, so then I became anxious, but can you think of anything that might have contributed to this? Probably my friend dying. That has the worst effect on me. Tell me about that. A couple of years ago, he was murdered up near where we live and I didn't actually get to say goodbye.

So I sort of have the guilt and since then, since he died, yeah. I sort of led to alcohol, sort of to drink the prane away, to suppress it, but it just didn't work. And that's where sort of like the blackout sort of started as well. You drink intense amounts just to see, and then it would just all go wrong. What do you mean all go wrong? So you sort of just like pass out or just like start crying or something. And then no one would sort of understand pass out or just start crying or something. And then no one would understand what was going on.

They just thought you were drunk. But then your brain is telling you you need to just forget about what's going on. How would you describe your mental health? Confusing. I think it's just because my mind gets confused a lot. It's hard to tell what you're going through. Sometimes I get very, very stressed out. Other times I kind of go into a mood of being lonely and sad. I think it just depends what mood I'm in. Year seven, I had some problems with people and that's affected it a lot. What do you mean problems with people?

Bullying, people making fun of me and hating myself, kind of being low, yeah. And do you think the way that you are now sometimes is all to do with that bullying or is it something else as well or maybe just random sometimes it's a good day sometimes it's a bad day so normally it would be like four days a week which is bad sometimes it'd be more but it's getting better now it's easing off to like maybe one or two days now did you know from the morning that it was going to be a bad day? Yes you wake up and you just feel like bad really really bad and lonely you feel like you're gonna cry that's kind of like the feeling. Would you manage to go to school on one of those days? I'd try I'd really

try and I would make it sometimes. I moved last year in August so 2018 and it was in the midst of what I didn't really know was a breakdown at the time but it was actually like a big thing I have anxiety it fluctuates quite a lot and at the time it was really bad and it caused a breakdown. So when you say breakdown what did that look like? Panic attacks. Extremes amount of overthinking and mood swings like I've never had them before. And not really being able to get up, get out. Constantly worrying that if I was hanging out with anyone, any of my friends or anything, I'd just be sat by myself. I couldn't really speak.

Everything just felt very dark. I remember when I first started going to therapy, that's how I it it was just very very dark and gloomy what were the thoughts that were spooling around my mind's never run so much like going to sleep at night was really a struggle because my mind was just ticking ticking ticking ticking it's like your body gets tired because your mind is like just racing but you feel very blank and what were the feelings associated with you were tired and your mind is whirring but what emotions were there I don't know very easily easily jumpy and someone says one little thing like it would be overthought and like very sharp conversation I don't really know how to describe it in terms of emotion. I don't want to say sad.

Hopeless. And very, very lonely. Like, very lonely. Were there moments where the rational part of your brain would sort of be talking to the poorly part of your brain and saying, this is ridiculous? At the start, definitely definitely during that first year especially the first few months it was very like well I'd be like right I'm not gonna eat today or then

I'd be like no wait I have to have a little bit otherwise xyz but then the kind of the longer you have it the quieter that kind of part of your head gets and if it's too long you can't really hear that anymore which is kind of the point where it's really difficult to get out of which is why kind of early intervention is really really important because otherwise it gets to the point where you don't really know what's you and what's not anymore. Recently it's been not as yo-yo-y. If you could explain to somebody who has no experience of being a 13-year-old girl with these kinds of issues,

how would you explain to them that it feels like when it was bad? Scary. Frightening. It was lonely. You just felt like you were a person. You felt numb. You felt very, very numb. It was hard to do things. It was hard to talk to people. But I spoke to somebody and they understood.

So now you only have one or two bad days a week. What do you feel when you look back on the weeks where it was like four days when you woke up feeling bad? I feel like I've improved so much and I feel happier. I read my old diaries recently. It made me sad, but then it also made me realise how much better I have got. What sorts of things did you write?

I used to write everything that happened, but I also used to write that I didn't like myself and that nobody would like me and everything. Yeah, it was really, really bad. I was depressed when I was about 13 years old. I was not badly bullied at school, but there was this kind of group of people that was it was very um I don't know very underlying sort of bullying and I was in a really toxic

friendship and things that just kind of poked and it sort of slowly but surely got quite um dark and I was very sensitive at the time. I was still recovering from some other things that had happened to me in my childhood. My father was an alcoholic. And it was kind of that same feeling that had come back, but more not being triggered by something that was happening. It just was like this horrible feeling. And I didn't even know what to call it. I didn't even know what to call it

I didn't even know how to think about it but I remember I was sat watching the TV with my parents with my dinner on my lap I was just sat and I couldn't do anything I was like I can't eat and I was looking and then I had these like really like just poignant sort of like suicidal thoughts and it was like I've never had that before

it was uncontrollable and it was it was lasted for about five ten minutes I felt really sick as well and I went upstairs and I just went to the bathroom I just breathing like uncontrollable I was shocked honestly because I'm not really I'm with things like that with thoughts I know I have the ability to stop them even when my mind is running and running and running it can be really really difficult to do it but I know I have the ability to stop them even when my mind is running and running and running it can be really really difficult to do it but I know I have the ability to do it because as a child I had therapy and I was taught it's not me it's like something else is saying that to me and have you carried on seeing CAMHS have you transferred from children and young person services to adult services

my transition was very difficult. I was in hospital at the point I turned 18, so my transfer from CAMHS to adults was through transfer from a CAMHS ward in Manchester to an adult ward in Bath, which was really difficult. I can't put into words how hard that was. It was probably the biggest shock I've ever experienced what was so shocking I was with people that were kind of 20 years older than me and there were a lot of people there that kind of I was really nervous around I mean I know I shouldn't have been but I was it was really difficult especially the fact that I was so young compared to them all and there were a few things that happened that were kind of really shocking

like what well there was one night where someone actually set fire to the ward that was a really big shock I didn't know any of the staff so it was it was a really big change really really hard I think obviously it depends on the batch of patients you've got with you because sometimes there are the majority of younger patients so kind of 19-20 it just so happened that when I was there it was majority like 50s and 60s because I'd only just turned 18 and then I was discharged to my adults community team who were really good at the start. It's been on and off whether I've been seeing someone this past year because of it being really short-staffed which is really difficult but again I've tried to build up resilience to it and kind of keep

going no matter what. My mum has a lot of problems as well. She's coming out of it but she's sort of like every now and then she gets really anxious. And how does that feel at home? Sometimes it gets a bit upsetting but yeah I just sort of like stay in my room a lot of the time or go out. You don't feel embarrassed talking about it? No not at all I think it's best to talk about it if because if you're hiding it you're sort of like carrying more weight on your shoulders having like a cloud over you is that what it felt like yeah just sort of felt like a rainy great cloud walking over me all the time even when it was like really hot do you feel proud of how you've got through yeah I am sometimes that is hard to admit but I am definitely proud because there were points where I didn't think I'd make it.

I didn't think I would see my 18th birthday. There were really low points where I was like, I'm never going to get out of this. And that is a really, really hard feeling. I am definitely proud of how far I've come. Beth yw'n teimlo, ac mae'n gwestiwn mawr, beth yw'n teimlo i fod yn 16-a-r oed, i gael y profiad a'r trawmau a'r heriau iechyd sydd wedi'u cael? Weithiau gallai fod yn ddangos iawn bod yn gwybod pethau nad ydych chi'n ei wybod neu ddim yn ei wybod ar gyfer ysgol ifanc. shouldn't know or shouldn't have known at such a young age I'm grateful for it in a way not you know not really but it's definitely a part of who I am now like I'm I find myself to be emotionally mature in quite a few ways in comparison to other people but then other people are better in other

things than I am it definitely helps empathize people. Sometimes I feel like I have a bit of a responsibility to help people around me because I know how it feels to need to be helped and in that aspect it's yeah I'm grateful for things that have happened. What do you think about when you think about your seven-year-old or your 13-year-old self? What do you feel about her? It's almost like I look at them as if they're a complete different person i think that's probably the same with everyone it would be very emotional i kind of feel sorry for my younger self in a way sometimes you deny yourself that what is happening is difficult and i think maybe as a child it was always like oh well this is happening to me

but it was always kind of you know I can get on with it but I think I should have just allowed myself the that lack of responsibility like as a child especially I felt bad I felt guilty and I should have allowed myself the chance to be like what is happening is awful and just the chance to sort of relax and not have to take responsibility and know that the people around me are actually there for me and taking care of me and I don't need to take care of myself and take care of those adults on Friday's program you can join Jane and a panel to discuss the questions that we've just heard

raised. If you're a teenager with tips to share, please do email us your advice and we don't need to name you. So please tell us if you'd like to remain anonymous. Now, if you're a fan of reality television, anything from the Kardashians through to the Only Ways Essex to Love Island, you may have noticed that the women's lips have been getting bigger and bigger. Lip fillers are now different from the days when there was a risk of ending up with a trout prout. It used to be silicon that was injected. Now it's hyaluronic acid, which eventually disappears and then has to be done again. But why have pouting mouths become essential to the Instagram look? Well, Megan Orr has had lip fillers. Nikki Cunningham's daughter

recently had her lips filmed. And Claire Coleman is a journalist who's written extensively about the subject. Claire, how is the lip actually filled? It's, as you said, using a substance called hyaluronic acid, which occurs naturally in the body. The version that is used to fill the lips is a stabilised version, and it looks like a kind of clear gel-type liquid, which is injected into the lips by the practitioner. And it doesn't make the lips look odd, like the trout pout used to? It doesn't have to make the lips look odd like the trout pout used to? It doesn't have to make the lips look odd. The positioning of the substance and the amount that is put in dictates what the lips will look like.

So it's really down to the skill of the practitioner. How easy and expensive is it to get it done? To my mind, it's worryingly easy to get it done because lip fillers are classified as medical devices rather than drugs and so you don't have to be medically qualified. Anyone from a hairdresser to a personal trainer or even I could get hold of the stuff and inject it and that would be completely legal. So from that point of view it's very very easy to get done and as with all these sorts of things, the costs will vary. If you're getting it very cheap, I'd question why you're getting it very cheap.

We're probably talking with creditable practitioners from around £150, but it will depend on where you are, who the practitioner is, how much of the product you have injected. Now, Megan, I know you first had yours at the age of 26. That was four years ago. Why did you decide to have it done? I suppose I've just always liked the look of fuller plumper lips um it's an attractive look to me um so i thought i'd try

it out and i like the results of it and we were talking earlier about cost and how often you had yeah you said you wish you were better off because you'd have it done more often. How much does it cost you and how often do you get it done? So it depends how many meals you get put into your lips. So I pay £150 and usually have it done once to twice a year. But you can have it done more or less depending, I suppose, what disposable income you have as well. Now, Nicky, your daughter, who has given you permission to discuss her lips, has just had them done. Why did she decide to have them done? Well, she says it's just to make herself feel better about how she looks.

But she had lovely plump lips anyway, and that's not just a mother's perspective. She did. And so I don't really understand why she wanted to have them done other than she's 19 and I think she's caught up in all the reality tv the instagram look love island because to me as a mother she didn't she didn't need anything done to her face she didn't need this but don't mothers always think that sorry nikki i'm sure all mothers three daughters and they've all got different you know they all look very different um and they don't all have full plump lips alex does and so of the three of them i was quite

shocked that she would be the one to say oh i think I need to have my lips done. Claire, to whom would you say lip fillers mostly appeal? I think there are probably two groups of predominantly women to whom it appeals. I think there is a younger generation which is very much influenced by social media and also by the stars of social media. You mentioned the Kardashians before, and I think Kylie Jenner, who I think was 16

when she said that she'd had her lips filled for the first time and is now 21 has been a huge influence on this sort of part of the industry but there is also a fact that as women get older their lips get thinner because the levels of the proteins that are in the body diminish with age and at that point women might choose to have their lips filled to recreate a balance that they might have had when they were younger. Now that's interesting because one assumes that cosmetic work in the past has usually been for older women who've been trying to look younger. Why is this a fashion craze among young people? I think because non-invasive, which this injectable business is sort of described as, has become part of the fashion and beauty aesthetic over the last 10 years. It's become increasingly normalised. There are more and more clinics on the high street which are offering these types of services.

And it's becoming much more part of everyday life for an awful lot of women. And I think the thing is that if you look at trends in the beauty industry more more broadly things like colouring hair might not have been the norm several generations ago but now they are things like tattoos might not have been seen as acceptable by previous generations but now more and more young people are seeing them as part of their fashion look as part of how they create their own identity and how they present themselves to the world. Megan how painful is it to have this done? You do have numbing cream put on first but you can feel it when the product goes into your lips and yes it does sting a little bit. I mean it's a needle yeah they jump you with the needle yeah yeah it does it does hurt a little bit but it's over and done within five minutes.

But once they're done and it's settled down, how much do your lips feel like they're your own? I mean, they still feel like my lips. They just feel a little bit plumper afterwards. But it's still part of me. And, you know, your body does break down the solution over time so if it's something you're not happy with in the first instant it's not permanent nikki i'm sure your daughter isn't going to mind me asking this question or mind what you will say in answer to it because she's probably had it already what would you say your daughter looks like um well I think it's quite a plastic look I think it hasn't I don't I personally don't think it's improved how she looks um it just

it looks false to me she doesn't mind she knows she she has one version of it and I have another and she knows how I feel what does she say then when you say you look completely unreal it looks plastic she just um no I don't she they have this this very um closed vision of how they want to look all her friends all this age group she's nine she's nearly 20 they all seem to want to look very similar that That's, to me, how they all look. They all look very similar. There's the long curl hair, the big eyebrows, and the big pronounced lips.

Megan, what did your mother think when she saw you? She would say exactly the same. I think she's threatened to never talk to me a few times if I ever had them done. So she thinks the same. She doesn't agree with it and says exactly the same thing that why do I need them you know I looked fine the way I was before but um you know I think that's a generation thing as well and she's never had it done so she doesn't

know what it feels like to have it done. Claire what do you reckon big lips represent? Is it considered sexy? I think it definitely is considered sexy. I think the aesthetic changes. I mean, I think there is, from an evolutionary biology point of view, I think there is certainly something about bigger lips that signifies a certain amount of sexuality and a certain amount of youth as well. So from that point of view, I think there's a certain amount of programming for us to find large lips attractive and for men to find larger lips attractive. I also think that the idea of social media dictating the way that women want to look has a large role to play as well. I know that estheticians that I've spoken to in the past

have talked about selfies and selfie culture dictating the sort of things that people want to have done within the surgery. Megan, you were taking selfies the minute you came into the studio. Is that all going on Instagram? I mean, is that what drives you to do this, that you want to look like everybody else on Instagram? No, not at all. I just believe, you know, if you can enhance the way you look,

then why not do it? I mean, me and Claire were talking earlier, and it's the same way you don't see necessarily so many women with grey hair anymore. You know, people choose to enhance their looks because that makes them feel better essentially so but you know I'm sure you heard me talking earlier to Vicky Knight about her scarring and about the film that she's made and about accepting the way you are what did you make of what she was saying um You know, I think it's down to the individual, really, at the end of the day.

And no one else should really have a judgment on the way someone looks, whether that's natural or whether they choose to enhance themselves. You know, everybody would seek, I would say, to make themselves look the best, the same way you go to the gym or um yeah Nikki what did you make of what Vicky Knight was saying about accepting the way you look I think that's what you have to do I think that's that's what people used to have to do and um maybe I'm just old maybe that's what it is I just think you have to you should to be happy be happy with yourself, just be who you are. But Nikki, do you dye your hair?

Yeah, I do. Sorry, couldn't resist slipping that one in. No, you're right, I do, I do. So do I, so do I. I know, I guess there is something relative. I think, do you know what though? I think, I know you're calling it non-invasive, but I feel that it's invasive to do what they're doing.

You know, putting something in your body, why would you? Well, I was talking to Nicky Cunningham, Megan Orr and Claire Coleman. Lots of you responded to the item about the film Dirty God and Vicky Knight. Sandra said, I've just been reduced to tears and can't wait to see the film and listen again to Vicky's full interview. Truly inspirational. And then on lip fillers, Nina said, it's an epidemic driven by peer pressure to fit in with everybody else around them. We should promote that there's a power in not looking like everybody else. Linda said people are scared of individuality and are following Instagram falsehoods.

Amy said beauty is natural. Everyone is beautiful and different in their own special way. Messing around with lip fillers can turn into a catastrophic disaster. Catherine said, I can't believe what I'm hearing from the apologists for lip fillers. Having someone who's not trained and part of an industry which is unregulated inject substances into your lips

is simply not the same as dying your hair or going to the gym. False equivalence. Julie said, I was bullied at school in the 1970s for having full lips. I used to try and make them look thinner with lip liner. I was called Mick Jagger as an insult. Now I'm 60 and I don't care what other people think or say, the bee-stung look is all the rage. Now tomorrow we'll be discussing Sudan. In April, the peaceful protests in Sudan led to the removal of President Omar al-Bashir after a 30-year rule. Women became the face of the rebellion,

but a recent military crackdown saw some of those protesters shot at and raped. We'll be hearing from the journalists Yusra El-Bagir and Nima El-Bagir about the current status of the women there demanding democracy. Join me tomorrow live at two minutes past ten, if you can, for today. Bye bye. I'm Sarah Trelevan, and for over a year, I've been working on one of the most complex stories

I've ever covered. There was somebody out there who was faking pregnancies. I started, like, warning everybody. Every doula that I know. It was fake. No pregnancy. And the deeper I dig, the more questions I unearth.

How long has she been doing this? What does she have to gain from this? From CBC and the BBC World Service, The Con, Caitlin's Baby. It's a long story, settle in. Available now.