Woman's Hour - Listener Week: Day Three

Episode Date: August 21, 2019

Listener Ellie Kemp wants to raise the subject of school Parent Teacher Associations and the difficulties they face in finding parents who have the time or the confidence to volunteer, particularly in rural areas, as well as the increasing reliance schools have on the money they raise. She is Chair of her son’s school PTA. What is the role of PTAs, what part do they play in children’s learning and what are the benefits for the volunteers and pupils? With Gill Sims, illustrator, blogger and author of the Why Mummy series and Tracey Handley, from the charity ParentkindOne listener asked us to discuss manners – she says her grandchildren seem to be growing up without learning any table manners and fewer and fewer grown-ups now hold a knife, fork and spoon properly. How much do manners matter? We hear from Gill Sims, author of the Why Mummy series. Listener Paris Moore is training to compete in her first IronMan competition in Barcelona in October. She wants to raise questions about attitudes to women competing in endurance sports and to inspire other women who may be questioning their ability to train for similar events. She is joined by 13 x IronMan Champion Lucy Gossage who also works as an Oncologist. Adapting to a new routine and pace of life after the death of a partner can be lonely and isolating. But, as one listener told us, getting out and about can also be life-changing. When 75 year old Bernard Bibby got in touch with us about his new passion for ballet, we sent reporter Tamsin Smith to his weekly class at the Bridge Academy of Performing Arts in Rochester to find him preparing to limber up at the barre.Presented by: Jenni Murray Produced by: Caroline DonneInterviewed guest: Ellie Kemp Interviewed guest: Tracey Handley Interviewed guest: Gill Sims Interviewed guest: Paris Moore Interviewed guest: Lucy Gossage Interviewed guest: Bernard Bibby

This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK. I'm Natalia Melman-Petrozzella, and from the BBC, this is Extreme Peak Danger. The most beautiful mountain in the world. If you die on the mountain, you stay on the mountain. This is the story of what happened when 11 climbers died on one of the world's deadliest mountains, K2. And of the risks we'll take to feel truly alive. If I tell all the details, you won't believe it anymore. Extreme. Peak danger. Listen wherever you get your podcasts.

BBC Sounds. Music, radio, podcasts. Hello, Jenny Murray welcoming you to Wednesday's edition of the Woman's Hour podcast. In today's programme in Listener Week, a question of manners. Mandy wrote to us to say her grandchildren have no table manners. How much does it matter? Paris Moore emailed from Australia to say she's training for an Ironman competition. Why might people be patronising about a woman doing an extreme sport? And men making friends.

Bernard Bibby, who's 75, changed his life after his wife died by learning ballet. Now, it's not news that schools are often struggling to find enough money in the budget to do all the things expected of them, and we've heard endless stories about parents being asked to chip in from time to time. It was this subject that prompted an email from Ellie Kemp, who chairs the Parent Teacher Association in her son's school,

which is in a rural area and struggles to find enough parents to help, particularly with fundraising. What part should a PTA play in the running of a school? Well, Tracey Handley is Programmes Manager for Wales for the charity ParentKind. Jill Sims is an illustrator and author of the Why Mummy series, and Ellie Kemp joined us from Guildford. Why did she contact us about this subject? So I've been on the PTA for a while and I've been chair for three years.

This is my fourth year now. And I just thought that it's something that pretty much everybody who's got a child of school age ends up having to help with doing something. And it's just I think it's beginning to be with the school budget cuts and everything. It's been beginning to be something that's more and more important to to schools to fill that gap in their in their budgets now. What does chairing the PTA involve? It's almost like another part-time job. There's quite a lot of behind the scenes organising. We do lots of events throughout the year and we have two big events like a summer fair and a Christmas fair.

But yeah, we just generally put nice things on for the children, like cake sales and bingo and things like that and try and get the community involved as well. Jill, you chaired your children's primary PTA, I think for two years. How do you look back on that time? Well, I mean, on one hand, I got a clipboard, which was a great bonus. I liked my clipboard very much. On the other hand, I think it went quite a long way to destroying my faith in humanity with just trying to get people to volunteer and sign up and help. You know, when you go across the playground to try and talk to somebody and they run in fear that you're going to try and sell them raffle tickets. It's fairly soul destroying.

But it is, I think, becoming more and more important. I think once upon a time, the PTA's fundraising was to provide nice little extras like school trips and other treats for the children. And now it's a vital part of the school budget to provide sort of daily essentials for teachers of just, you know, basic classroom supplies. But unfortunately, certainly in my experience, it was still just as difficult to get people to help out and come along and sign up. What sort of excuses did you get from parents about not getting involved? My favourite excuse ever was a parent who told me that they couldn't possibly get involved because as they had two children they didn't have time to which I wanted to respond well I'm not just standing here in the school hall with my clipboard because I love clipboards and the smell of school dinners.

Lack of time was usually the excuses made. But then you would get other parents who were maybe working long shifts or multiple jobs and things who could find the time. So the parents who made the excuses that they didn't have time were generally the ones I think who probably could have more easily found it than some of the parents who did volunteer. Ali, how much do you find it's the busy ones who managed to make it and the of the parents who who did volunteer. Ali how much do you find it's the busy ones who manage to make it and the not so busy ones who don't? We we do find that a bit um I mean I'm pretty busy myself and everything but I I know what it's like I understand how people do have a lot on and it is difficult to try and juggle everything and you know a lot of our parents are working and both both parents are working so again it's like doing something like

that but also maybe having to get the child care to come to meetings things like that is it is difficult and i do understand it but it is it is quite hard to get what what do you reckon ellie that the parents who do get involved get out of it themselves do you know i think what it really shows is it gives sets a really good example to their children to show that you know mum and dad are involved in in school life and that school is important and that we can have fun at school as well and you know when I do a summer fair my children love it because I literally give them some money and then I don't see them and they have a great time and they help me set up and help me clear up and

and it just I think it reinforces the fact that you know sometimes people have to volunteer you have to just put in the extra work and not for many money you know and just for no you know you can't always just get paid for everything you have to volunteer sometimes to make things run smoothly. Tracy how important generally would you say PTAs are? They're incredibly important Jenny. Our parent-kind membership often tell us some really good case studies, some good news stories. Exactly as Ellie has said, it's not just about fundraising. In our most recent member survey,

when they asked what they consider to be the two main roles of their PTA, 96% said raising funds or other resources for the school, but a huge 83% told us it was holding events to build the school community. So it is that just actively being involved, getting to know the teachers, the school. And exactly as Elias said, it's about the children seeing the valuable contribution that their parents and extended family make to the school. But Tracey, there is one word that I suspect puts a lot of people off and that's the word meetings. How unwilling are a lot of parents to think, oh Lord, I've got to sit for two hours while people drone on in a meeting? Well, what I'd say to that

is, again, there's lots of really good stories from our members telling us about how they've been very innovative and holding different styles of meetings they don't even call them meetings because it does put a lot of people off for example my local school a school of cribbeth in Powys I know through the summer holidays have been meeting in the local park it's a chance for the children to get together. You know, they'll take some coffee and sandwiches and have a bit of a picnic. So while the children are off doing something, it's a bit of a social event for the families, but they do get a bit of work done. So they've already started planning what they're going to do from the new school term. Ellie, how often do fathers get involved in the PTA? They don't tend to organise a huge

amount but they are there in the background obviously you know with childcare supporting things like that and they do love a barbecue and a quiz if there's any alcohol involved they're usually there but it's mostly led by women I I'd say, and the mums, yes. Jill, what did you find? Fathers, were they very involved when you did it? Again, as Ellie said, they were a lot more in the background. You would get the odd sort of dad joining the committee and signing up. And I always found that the fathers, who were willing to be a lot more visible,

got far more praise than the mothers who did. Everyone would say, oh, isn't that marvellous that John has joined the PTA and he's got a full-time job and everything else, and that's so great of him to step up. And you're thinking, yeah, but all the mums on the PTA also have a full-time job, so I'm not sure why it's more marvellous of him

than it is of the mothers, but I think that's still just society's perception that anything to do with school and children is more kind of a mother's job than a father's. But hopefully that's changing a bit more and more men will feel they can get involved. Because it's also a great way, you know, if you're new to an area or something else to meet people and just get involved again in not just the school community, but the wider community. Tracy, it is a PTA, that's parents and teachers. What's the teacher's role in it? Our PTAs are parent-led,

but obviously the partnership between parents and schools is an essential role in developing the activities and events. And the relationships, events and the relationships. By building these relationships, the schools can more easily understand the pressures, perhaps sometimes that their local families feel, and in return, by working together, the parents can understand sometimes the pressures and issues that are raised by their local schools.

And it is about just building good relationships together and the children benefiting from this in lots of different ways. In what ways? I mean, how does it help their education? OK, so the effect of parental engagement over a student's school career, when it's done well, so it could be something as simple as doing some reading clubs together having meetings with with schools the effect of this parental engagement is equivalent to adding two or three years to that student's education that's what the research tells us it also opens up opportunities for children to have

it's just about general well-being really it's about the whole school community getting together it's about seeing their parents as an extension of learning and being part of the school community ellie what's been your most successful fundraiser? We always do summer and Christmas fairs, but there's one fundraiser we did last year, which was really lovely, which was a community cream tea. So we got a lot of we asked people to get their grandparents and because those grandparents that do a lot of the childcare and picking up and dropping off at school don't actually get to see inside the school and do anything with the children. So we had a cream tea and we invited them and they paid for a ticket to come

and we had jam and cream donated and everything. And that was lovely with the children served, the parents, grandparents and everything. And it raised a bit of money, but it was just the atmosphere was lovely in there there we had daffodils on the tables and and we had other people members of the community into the school as well so they got to see it um you know firsthand and enjoy a little bit of different time with their children. Jill as a final point what part would you say PTAs should play in deciding what the money raised is spent on within the school?

I think personally I think the the PTA's main role is to raise the money the school has a far better knowledge of what they need of of what they're lacking of you know maybe even what a specific class needs if they need a trip to to something for a topic they're doing or if they need a trip to something for a topic they're doing or if they just need marker board pens or something. So I was always quite happy to just hand that budget, the money we'd raised over to the school and let them spend it as they saw fit because the things that the PTA might think would be lovely for the school probably would be lovely

but there's not much point in having some fabulous piece of kit that five kids are going to benefit from if there's something essential lacking that every kid in the school could could benefit from so i think it was much more up to the school jill sims thank you don't go away i'm going to talk to you again in a minute but tracy handley and ellie kemp thank you very much indeed and we would like to hear from you about this as well what's your experience of of the PTA or how did you escape it if you did? Now, how many times has a parent said, sit up straight, don't put your elbows on the table, use your knife and fork properly. No, you can't read at the table. Table manners. You go on and

on about it, but do children in the 21st century care? Mandy wrote to us saying her grandchildren seem to be growing up without any table manners at all. And she observes that fewer and fewer adults seem to know how to hold a knife, fork and spoon correctly. Have manners disappeared? And if so, does it matter? Well, Jill Sims remains with us. Generally, Jill, how much do manners matter? I think basic manners are very important. You know, saying please and thank you, being able to hold a conversation at the table instead of staring at your screen.

And yet being able to use a knife, fork and spoon is a fairly basic thing as well. I don't think in the 21st century anyone really cares about the finer points of etiquette and, you know, whether you use your grapefruit spoon correctly or whatever. But, you know, being able to actually sort of use cutlery is fairly standard, I think. But certainly in my children's friends, I saw a huge range of table manners, I'd have to say, from ones who were very polite to other ones who would eat the mashed potato with their fingers. So what did the good ones do? Did they sit up straight, no elbows on the table, know how to use the cutlery? I think the whole sit up straight, no elbows on the table is quite old fashioned. But cutlery, not talking with your mouth full, not chewing with your mouth full. And I think just things like, you know, please, thank you, rather than I want a drink is really important.

So it's just quite, I think, just basic courtesy for the other people you're sitting with is really what it boils down to. But do you think this is changing because we simply live in a more relaxed atmosphere with, I suppose, a blending of different cultures and foods? No, no. I think all cultures and foods adhere to fairly, you know, standard politeness about eating. I think it's probably more that people don't have as much time to sit down as a family together and eat these days. You know, I'm quite guilty quite often of saying, you know, I've not got time to eat with the kids. And, you know, OK, as a special treat, you can have the iPad.

And then certainly over the summer holidays, that creeps up a little bit more. So I think the more time you can probably spend as a family sitting together and eating probably helps more than anything. Do you let them sit with their food on their lap and watch telly i do not partly because i have two dogs and they wouldn't have any dinner if i did that because the dogs would have had it off them um no that that's that's one line i i always very much drew um although i can be guilty of doing that after they've gone to bed to their horror you're having your dinner in here why Why is that? Well, that's not fair. So I'm a complete hypocrite and a very bad example to them.

How difficult, though, do you think it is to get young children to adopt table manners? Because, you know, they might be having school lunches. They might think, why do I have to bother? I think, yeah, I think when they see other people not doing the things that you drum into them at home it's it's very difficult it's like when you take your children to a restaurant and you try and get them to sit up at the table but somebody else is letting their children run around the restaurant and they're going why can't i do that mummy and you just have to say well this is this is what we do you know other people can do other things and and well

that's up to them but you know this is this is how we do it in this family and just keep, you know, reinforcing that. And how true do you think it is that fewer and fewer grown-ups know how to use a fork, spoon and knife? I don't know. I don't know. Certainly it's not something I've particularly seen, I don't think. In my generation, you know, my parents and grandparents would have been down on me like a ton of bricks if I wasn't, you know, using a piece of cutlery. But I don't know. I do hear that it's becoming a problem, but it's not something I've personally experienced, I have to say. Well, Jill Sims, thank you very much indeed for being with us this morning. Now, still to come in today's programme, Men Making Friends, how Bernard Bibby, who's 75, wrote to us about the difference learning ballet has made

since he became a widower. And the serial, Episode 3 of The Country Girls. Now, earlier in Listener Week, you may have missed a discussion about the prevalence of why no clock. Why is there so much pressure on young women to have a drink? And bringing up boys to be feminist. How do you do it? Don't forget, if you miss the live programme, you can always catch up. All you have to do is download the BBC Sound app and search for Woman's Hour. Now, Paris Moore must listen to the woman's hour podcast because after a long time as a listener

in london she now lives in australia and it was from there she sent an email i'm a junior doctor from london now living in sydney and i'm training to do my first full iron man competition in barcelona with nine female friends we've been really interested in people's reaction to our pursuit, in particular people's perception of what women should and shouldn't do in their sporting pursuits. Well, we're joined from Nottingham by Lucy Gossage, who's an oncologist and has been Ironman champion 13 times, and of course from Sydney by Paris Moore. Paris what made you sign up for

Iron Man? Well one of my friends in London decided after she'd run from Vegas to LA sorry LA to Vegas that that wasn't quite enough for her and that she wanted to persuade a bunch of us to take on the take on Barcelona Ironman with her and basically she just kept persuading us until we all caved. What reactions did you get when you told friends and family, oh, I'm doing the Ironman? That was crazy. What do you mean?

That they didn't think I had enough time or energy to put into training for this event because it's just such a daunting event and I think that I do take on a lot but I think no one thought I would have enough time to do it what's daunting about it I think so a lot of my friends are runners and swimmers but I think this is seen as like the real endurance um race because it's such a long swim such a long bike ride and then to finish that all off it's then a marathon on top of that Lucy 13 times champion why did you sign up in the first place um I can relate to Paris actually it was a drunken dare after a relationship ended for me. And I never planned to become professional. And I'd heard about this thing called an Iron Man. And I think it was the allure of trying something I didn't know whether I could do it.

And for me, it was it was that trying to do the impossible, which is what it felt like at the time. What's been your experience of other people's reactions to a woman being an Ironman? Generally they've just been quite incredulous and impressed. I mean the sport has grown enormously over the last 13 years since I've been doing it and I think at the start very few people had heard about it. Now it's much more commonplace um i've never had a negative reaction i've just had positive wow that's amazing but it's interesting that only 11 of the competitors are women why do you suppose it's relatively so few um i think there are a lot of different reasons for that and and a lot of people say to me, we should encourage more women to do Ironman. And I think when anyone says to me, should I do an Ironman? The first thing I would always have to make sacrifices to do it family work financial

so unless you really want to do it unless you've really got that passion then then I think the sacrifices will always be too much um so I guess the question is do women want to and feel that they can't um if that's the case why do they feel that they can't is it because they don't have they feel like they don't have the time they don't have the money uh the lack of confidence uh or is it actually because they're quite happy having a healthier balance in their life and doing shorter events because the equality at shorter triathlons is much more equal we've we've had a couple of emails from um other listeners who are obviously very very keen and very proud to have done it um but um fiona says as well as coming home with an iron medal i got two other bits of metal two broken collarbones

in separate bike accidents in training and i'm vanessa said with a reconstructed shoulder and hip it's certainly been a battle but i'm now more determined than ever and have signed up to the monster of races, Hellas 2020. It sounds like it's a bit dangerous, potentially. Yeah, I think spending long times on the bike outside can always be dangerous, especially after sort of longer rides when you become a bit more tired and maybe don't have your wits about you. But I think generally cycling can be a bit dangerous. A bit dangerous. It sounds as if they found it quite dangerous anyway and it's interesting Lucy

that when you look at the way the two sexes perform men seem to be faster but women lead in the endurance events why is that what is the difference between the men and the women that makes them perform quite differently in different events um so i think in in shorter distance so women aren't better than men uh in in ultra long distances but the gap is certainly narrowed so for for most sports, it's about 10% difference on average. I think the longer the event goes, so we're talking about going past Ironman, women generally get a bit closer and there are lots of it. So Jasmine Paris this year won a 200-mile fell race and another woman, Fiona Colbinger, won a 4,000km race across Europe.

So there are increasing examples of women being better than men. I think the longer i'm not an expert but the longer the event the less important the the pure strength and aerobic power is so men are stronger they have testosterone which i think makes a massive difference uh but in longer events and there's some evidence that women can store their glycogen more efficiently they have more slow twitch fibers uh some studies suggest they're more fatigue resistant but then people counteract that with maybe they just um are a bit more sensible and they don't damage themselves early on as much which is why they're better at the end um but i think going on to the psychology um organization ego pacing so we know that in marathons, women slow down much less than men, suggesting they're much better at pacing than men. And in these super long events, a lot of it's

about dealing with fatigue, sleep deprivation, negative thoughts. Are women more better at processing their emotions? And that's part of why can can do so well in the longer events it's interesting lucy that both you and paris are doctors and it does seem that it's mainly professional women who take part in ironman why might that be i mean ironman's an incredibly expensive sport um so financially it's expensive and time-wise it's expensive and I think that definitely is a barrier and it's still quite intimidating, you know, it's very intimidating turning up to race and everyone seems to have all this really expensive kit. The British Triathlon is actually doing a really good job at empowering women

and the number of women entering the the sprint and the the go try the really kind of small events not small shorter events to try and get people in to try it's actually more women than men uh doing those so at grassroots um kind of level women are are are certainly kind of growing into our sport more um which is brilliant and it's you know it's wonderful that we're getting platforms on shows like this to even talk about it paris what does your training involve alongside your work as a doctor um so i normally have two or three cycles a week one cycle at the moment will probably be around five to five and a half hours um i'll have two or three swims one will be like a sprint swim one a bit longer so after this I've got to go do a 3k swim and then a couple of runs normally sort of just running off the bike and

getting used to running off the bike so it's quite quite busy so you jump off the bike and then and then run yeah so getting used to running on tired legs and how about you lucy i mean i i'm trying to retire professional triathlete not doing an entirely good job um but yeah i i i actually found being a full-time athlete harder than people realize and i've enjoyed triathlon much more since going back to work so i work part-time um yeah i train i train more certainly when i was racing seriously i trained a lot more than paris but i was working part time and it was, you know, part of my job was being a professional athlete. But it's a wonderful sport. It's, you know, I never planned to become professional. I've had such an amazing time, visited so many places, met so many people, but I don't think people should do an Ironman unless they really want to, because it is a huge commitment and the sacrifices will always be too much. And there are, you know, you don't need to prove yourself. Do it if you want to. It will change your life for the better. But don't feel that you have to.

Doing a sprint or an Olympic is, you know, that's an enormous challenge. And going hard over shorter distances is just as tough as going slower for longer. Paris, what in the end do you make of the title of the sport, Iron Man? So I was talking to the other ladies about this earlier, and I think that there's nothing wrong with the name in itself, but I think perhaps some of the associations and the branding around it are quite masculine and it feels quite male- focused um but i think the title itself is is perfectly fine and it's it's kind of it's a tradition now and it's something everyone knows the name of lucy what about you what do you make of the title i i i don't have one with it at all

and actually just you know through twitter talking about it i very few people seem to have a problem with it. I think it's more the branding that tends to be very male-dominated. But actually, triathlon is probably one of the most equal sports, women and men. So we have equal prize money. We race on the same courses over the same distance. Women champions get the same amount of publicity as male champions. So, yeah, actually, it's not doing badly triathlon in terms of equality. Paris, what would you say to persuade other women to take it up? I do think I agree with Lucy.

It's not something that you should take up doing if you're not interested in it. It's taken up a lot of my time over the last year. But I do think if you're considering it and you think you have the time and the energy to put into it, then it's definitely worth doing. I think we've been quite lucky having both the emotional, the finance and the physical support to be able to do it. And I think it's, yeah, if you're considering doing it, then just go for it.

Paris Moore and Lucy Gossage, thank you very much indeed. And again, we'd like to hear from more of you. If you've done this, let us know how you got on. Now, it's never easy to learn how to live as a widow or widower after a long marriage when suddenly you're alone and don't get out much. That's what happened to Bernard Bibby, who's 75. He wrote to us, really, to say you're never too old to do something completely new.

He started learning ballet. Tamsin Smith went to his weekly class at the Bridge Academy of Performing Arts in Rochester to find him preparing to limber up at the bar. Well, I'm going to get some shoes on. We're going to do the same warm-up that we've done for the last couple of weeks. We're going to start off in two rows, two or three rows.

So starting with our right leg forwards. It's all about weight placements today, posture and weight placements. So stand up super, super tall. I was married to Celia for 55 years. We were together from the age of 17. It was dancing that brought us together because I was the only boy at the youth club who could jive. When you've got somebody ill, you spend a lot of time at home. You're a 24-7 carer. I wanted to get out.

Nothing against my wife, Celia was fantastic, but I did not want to sit at home brooding. Yes, I have memories, and I have times when I'm down and depressed, and I have a few tears when certain things come up, like you come back from the shops and you like to say to Celia, I've just seen so-and-so, and there's nobody to say it to. So, I sold the television set and went out. I wanted to learn to tap dance from a very, very long way back.

But where I lived in southeast London if a boy said he wanted to go dancing he'd have got well and truly done over in the back of the bicycle shed. I found a tap class and we started and she looked at me and laughed she said you're a typical man just like you get on strictly come dancing you won't stick your bum out and wiggle it around so you'll have to go and get limbered up. I thought yoga, pilates, something like that. And she suggested ballet. And I have to admit, I did roar with laughter. My name's Claire Wilders,

and I've been teaching ballet classes to adults for a few years now. Do you remember the first time that Bernard came along to your class? I'd been told I had a gentleman turn up for my class and they were like, he's there already. And he was there already about 15 minutes before the class, I think it was, maybe even half an hour. First up to fourth and swap and swap. Open to second. It was was fine he joined in he was pretty much beginner at that

point as well but he did really well so now he's a regular fixture in your saturday morning class here yes what does he bring to the class a lot of energy and enthusiasm and because he is here literally every single week he's like a stable feature of the class so everyone loves to see a oherwydd ei bod yma unrhyw wythnosau, mae'n ffeithiau arferol o'r clas. Felly mae pawb yn hoffi gweld yna. Ac mewn gwirionedd, os nad yw'n yma, sy'n anodd iawn, mae'n ymwneud â penderfyniad. Mae'n ystyried, oedd hynny wedi digwydd? Pam nad yw'n yma? Felly mae'n rhan o'r ffurnitur. he's part of the furniture really now. It's been great because even amongst my own mates, I mean, I'm an electrician and a plumber and things like that,

and the guys know I do it, and I think some of them would like to try it. I meet them down at the electrical wholesalers, I meet them in the garage. I mean, I just had my car MOT'd. But the whole idea of spending every night down the pub swilling beer and just talking for... No. No, I like ladies around.

Ladies are fun. You ladies are fun. Blokes can be miserable. My name's Amy. I've been coming for two years now to this ballet. How old are you, can I ask? 32. You're 32. Is it the first class you've been to where there's been a man in the class?

Yes, it's the first male that I've danced with in a class. And I see that you and Bernard have a bit of a laugh actually. He's always got a comment, hasn't he? Oh, absolutely, yeah. sydd wedi'i danseu gyda fi mewn clas. A dwi'n gweld bod chi a Bernard yn cael ychydig o ffynniad mewn gwirionedd. Mae'n bob amser wedi cael sylwad, nid yw'n i? O, yn bendant. Yn aml, rydyn ni'n sefyll yn sefyll gyda'n gilydd ar y bar ac mae gennym ychydig o ffynniad wrth wneud hynny, sy'n dyfodol i bawb arall. Ond rydyn ni'n cael ein cyd yn dda iawn.

Ac pan rydyn ni'n partner ar y diwedd, mae'n debyg, rydw i eisiau bod yn ei partner. Rwy'n gweld hynny. Rydych yn cymryd y dynion eraill allan. Ydw, rydw i. Rydw i'n eu barhau allan i danseu gyda hi. be his partner. I can see that you're pushing the other ladies out the way. I am yeah I do barge them out of the way just to dance with him. I'm Vicky I've been coming for just over a year to this class and I've been dancing for about three or four years. I'm 52 nearly. I think it's inspirational when so many older people spend so much time indoors doing sedentary things and to embrace things and to give it a try

and to think, well, people aren't going to laugh at you. They're laughing with you. We have such brilliant fun here. And if you can't have fun in life, what can you have? Bernard, you've got good press here from the ladies. They like having you here. It costs me a night out, you know. I come here, I smile.

I can start off Saturday morning waking up and feeling a bit down. By the time you've had an hour or so with this crazy bunch, I'm killing myself for laughing. All the mistakes I made, you know, but having this lot around, they're great, they're great fun. All the Saturday Ballet ladies, including Bernard, we all have a little Saturday Ballet WhatsApp group where we just put on funny things that we find about ballet and we

all sort of share a laugh and so that's nice as well it's not confined to Saturdays I meet these ladies every week we chat uh we have a whatsapp group which I'm the only man on it and I'm kept informed about what they're doing and some of it's quite hilarious because it doesn't really apply to me um we recently went and saw a live transmission of Romeo and Juliet all together as a group but it's great and I'm just accepted I suppose I'm one of the girls now for the turnout we really use those little muscles underneath the bottom of your bottom your piriformis in that little cluster yeah and your inner thigh muscles the adductors yeah really think of just isolating those and working those muscles I'm no good at it I shall never be a Baryshnikov,

but it's a great exercise routine. He's done really well actually and he got to a stage and he said, I need to have some kind of structure or a pathway. So I suggested doing the Grade 1 exam and he's encouraged the other women to get on board with doing the grades. And so we have six people who are doing their Grade 1 exam, hopefully at Christmas. I think when you're walking down the high street and you all of a sudden catch sight of yourself in a plate glass window, you're far more erect, your shoulders are back, your head's up high. You look around at other men,

similar age group, and they're all hunched over and they've got walking sticks and they're younger than me. Would you be interested in another romantic relationship at 75? I don't know whether I could find another woman who could put up with this crazy guy. She might be jealous of me and my girls at the ballet class. I've thought about this, seriously. Two things. Firstly, at the age of 75 and a bit, very important, the bit,

have I got enough time on the planet to be retrained by another lady? Not quite sure about that one. Am I ready for another relationship after 55 years with Celia? I don't think it would be fair on the new lady because I wouldn't want to find myself thinking Celia wouldn't have done it that way or accidentally letting it slip out.

Celia wouldn't have done it that way. I do see a lot of men who degenerate very quickly after losing their wives. It's a shame really. I'm not forgetting Celia. I'll never forget Celia. Every anniversary of her death, I buy a rose, and it's put in a glass in front of her picture. And I have a little tear. But she would not allow me to sit around. She wasn't a lady herself who would sit around. She was out doing things all the time. What do you think Celia would have said about your ballet class?

Can you hear her words in your ears? Yeah, I'm convinced she's sitting up on that cloud out there looking down at me now. It's all he wants to do is show his legs off. Bernard Bibby was talking to Tamsin Smith. Lots of you responded on the subject of the Parent Teachers Associations. Alex said, I joined the friends group attached to my children's primary school as I believe strongly in supporting the school and the community. Also, I was new to the area and as a working parent had few opportunities to meet other parents.

I unfortunately found the experience to be very negative. I wasn't made at all welcome and it was made clear that they believed the only contribution I could make was the contents of my purse, not my time. So after a year I left. Jane said I met my best friends on the primary school PTA many years ago now. Our youngest children are in year 11 and our oldest have finished university. We're all very close. Go away together for a weekend each year, support each other through breast cancer,

husbands having cancer, difficult children phases and the menopause. We have a fantastic laugh together and are growing old disgracefully together. Catherine said, as an ex-vice chair of a PTA, I've always found the expectation that everyone should volunteer is a real cheek. I chose to take on these roles. I felt like I had a positive role and purpose and felt good when things went well. I also made lots of friends. PTA was never purely altruistic, and I think there should be no pressure on anyone to be involved unless they choose to do so. Someone who didn't give us a name said,

instead of complaining that parents don't want to volunteer, why not mobilise and complain about the disgraceful government cuts to education? Helen said, should it be parents that are subsidising the gap in the budget? Surely this is widening a gap between richer and poorer areas. Alexandra said, I saw an American example where people could donate $100 to the PTA at the start of the year and PTA wouldn't contact them again for the rest of the year. And then Christina said, why not invite grandparents to be on the PTA and help at events?

They do look after grandchildren, but may well have more time as they're retired. My grandchild is three, and I would love to get involved when he starts school. On the question of manners, Deborah said, I taught my seven nephews table manners. One of my quips was that if they wanted to eat like animals, I would get them a trough to eat from. As youngsters, I'm sure they thought I was some kind of ogre, but as adults, they now see the value of learning the skill.

Wendy wrote, I've worked for more than 15 years as a children's occupational therapist and now as a teaching assistant in a school. I feel that it's an important thing to focus on as these skills are transferable. Using your fingers to guide your cutlery develops fine motor skills to control a pencil or use scissors. Learning to sit at the table helps young children learn to sit down at a table at school to be receptive to learning. Women competing in the Ironman competitions, Nida said, you should look at Tembi, known as Iron Town, home of Ironman Wales. Virtually everyone here has done the event, including lots of women, me included.

We even currently have a PhD student studying why this is a phenomenon in Pembrokeshire. Tess said the sacrifice is for the family that is left behind. My children's father spent years training, going on holiday and spending huge amounts on kit and bikes. It is a wholly selfish pursuit. He, by the way, is now my ex. And then on men making friends, Samita said, I love Bernard. Encourage other men to get their tights on and dance. It's great for your mood, body and social life.

And Hannah said, big smile on my face having listened to this. Bernard, what an inspiration. Now tomorrow we'll be discussing being the only person of colour in a rural area in the UK. How do you carve out a community that works for you? And have we found the oldest book club in the UK? Doreen got in touch to say the book club she belongs to has been running since 1965. Join me tomorrow if you can, two minutes past 10. Bye-bye. I'm Sheila Dillon and before you go I wanted to tell you about the Food Programme podcast, The Place for Hungry Minds. In our latest episode, I sit down to talk to Jamie Oliver. We used to go and pick sorrel and rocket on roundabouts. And I'm like, yeah, but Gennaro,

it's kind of a lot of exhaust fumes around here, Gennaro. Lead, lead, Gennaro, not good. It was wonderful to hear that Jamie Oliver, master of Italian cooking, actually only encountered olive oil in his late teens. My geography teacher, Mr Sagers, said that I was deaf. In Essex, the only place to get olive oil was Boots. So, subscribe to the Food Programme on BBC Sounds. BBC Sounds. Music, radio, podcasts. I'm Sarah Trelevan and for over a year I've been working on one of the most complex stories

I've ever covered. There was somebody out there who was faking pregnancies. I started like warning everybody. Every doula that I know. It was fake. No pregnancy. And the deeper I dig, the more questions I unearth. How long has she been doing this? What does she have to gain from this?

From CBC and the BBC World Service, The Con, Caitlin's Baby. It's a long story, settle in. Available now.