Woman's Hour - Listener Week: Elderly care, Women boat builders, Midlife Jobs, Influencer Viv the Carer

Episode Date: August 4, 2026

Listener Week on Woman's Hour is where we bring your stories, ideas and the issues you want to hear about to air.Sarah tells us about the burden and resentment she feels at caring for a parent who is in her 90s, when she is a pensioner too. This is the time she thought she would have for herself. Clare Jefferies, who co-runs care companies and has written the book: I’m Your Daughter, Not Your Carer; and Caroline Abrahams, Charity Director, Age UK. discuss the problem with Kylie Pentelow.How hard is to get a job in midlife? Age 52, Stacey Duguid is a columnist and former fashion editor, who once held positions at some of the world's top fashion brands; Prada, Harrods, Net-a-Porter and Paul Smith. However for the past 16 months Stacey has been unemployed and actively applying for jobs. She estimates she has sent over 150 applications out and received very few replies and not a single job interview. Stacey posted about this on her social media account and received a tsunami of responses from other women. With decades of experience and perspective under their belts, why are so many midlife women struggling to find employment? Stacey joins Kylie with Ingrid Fawcett from Midlife 360, which advises women returning to work.Have you ever considered working in boat building? We were contacted by Women in Boat Building, a community of women working hands-on in the industry, who wanted to tell us about their experiences and raise the profile of a trade that's largely male-dominated. Abbey Molyneux, a traditional boat builder who runs her own boatyard in Norfolk and is a director of Women in Boat Building, and Vanessa Larmond, who's just starting out in the industry in Southwold, Suffolk, tell us what it is like.How many people can call themselves a fashion/style influencer in their 80s? A listener suggested we interview Viv the Carer about timeless fashion as women get older. She adds I love her energy. Viv Truran is 82 and shares her morning outfit-of-the-day posts with more than 800,000 followers online.PRESENTER: Kylie Pentelow PRODUCER: Melanie Abbott

This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK. Growing businesses deal with the same problem, too many tools, too much back and forth and not enough time. Odu helps bring it all together. It's an all-in-one business management platform, fully integrated from sales and accounting to inventory and marketing, so your team can spend less time chasing information and focus on growth. Whether you're in retail, manufacturing or service, Odu gives you one place. to manage your business. Visit Odu.com to book a demo. It's O'Dbolo.com. Hello, this is Kylie Pentalo and you're listening to the Women's Hour podcast. Hello and welcome to the program. It's listener week here on Women's Hour. So everything you hear today and this week is generated by you. We have already had some fascinating discussions and wonderful

women to talk to and today is no exception. We'll hear from a woman known as Viv the Carer on At 82, she has 800,000 followers who are all there for her fashion tips and advice. She'll be telling us what it's like to be an influencer in your 80s. Also, the ancient art of boat building. Two women got in touch to tell us why they wanted to do it and the effort it took to make it to a boat yard. Plus, are you caring for your elderly parent but really don't want to? One listener who's in her 60s got in touch to tell us she thought, she would have this time in her life for herself, post-work, and post-raising children.

But now she finds herself as the main carer, and she talks openly about the resentment she feels. So we want to hear from you on this. If you're caring for your mum or your dad, are you able to talk about how you really feel? Do get in touch with us. On most smart speakers, you can say Alexa asks BBC Sounds to send a comment. You can text the programme. The number is 84844. on social media. We're at BBC Women's Hour and you can email us through our website too or alternatively send us a WhatsApp message or a voice note. That number is 0-3700-400-444. Also, when Stacey Dugards shared her story of being unemployed in midlife,

she couldn't have imagined the response she got. Thousands of women shared their own panic-stricken experiences of sending hundreds of applications and getting nothing back. Well, Stacey speaks honestly about selling clothes to afford food, applying for benefits and being told to appear younger on her CV to be more attractive to employers. So do get in touch too if you've experienced this. And also if there's anything you want us to cover this week on Listener Week, there's still time 84844 to text and 0300-100-444 is the WhatsApp.

So first, a woman's our listener who we're calling Sarah, wrote to ask us, I would love you to focus on the expanding problem of OAPs looking after OAPs. My brother is in his 70s. My sister and myself are in our 60s and we are looking after a parent in their 90s. When I spoke to her earlier, she described her situation. I have an elderly parent in their 90s. I am in my late 60s now and just retired and had thought that I would get this little. section of time before I hit my 70s and ill health. I don't have the greatest of health,

but I'm pretty good. And I just thought I would have some time to travel and spend more time with my own children and hopefully soon grandchildren. And I find myself the conduit for my parents care really and it's it's frustrating because I have a parent who can make decisions but can't dress doesn't really understand how to manage their money but yeah I'm not allowed to override any decisions about living in an inappropriate house which is now the case and several years running now we've ended up in hospital because of accidents in the home and I get told off by social services and it's like but I cannot override the householder I can't make them just put in a stair lift hurrah but you know for three years I've been advocating for this and it's really

frustrating it's very stressful I'm one of three children but the other two live abroad And I don't want to do it anymore. You know, I just am stressed by it, exhausted by it, frustrated by it. And one of the most peaceful times in the year was when my parent was in a respite home between hospital and home. And I just knew where they were and that everybody was looking after them and that it was all joined up and they were. you know, I think that's the situation. But it's not going to get better. It's going to get worse and worse and worse and worse.

It's not like bringing up children where they develop and start to get skills and fly the nest and it's joyful. This actually is the opposite. And not much fun for my parent. You know, you have to be pretty tough to be in your 90s, you know. but they are that generation with children in the war. So they are robust, but they're also very determined to have their own way. And regardless of who has to pick up the slack, which is basically me.

There is a living carer. So can you tell me a bit about what you're called on to do? Well, coordinate the carers, speak to the GP, speak to the social services, anything goes wrong, the plumbing, the heating, the whatever. I have to arrange, you know, to fix it. And, yeah, I'm already a single parent living in a house running my own household. And, you know, I don't really want to run somebody else's household. Certainly not unsupported, which I am. Both my siblings are married, so they live in, you know, a supported environment.

But they're not available because they don't live in this country. And I love them dearly, and, you know, they're very emotionally supportive. Do you feel any resentment towards them that this is falling on you? I do feel resentment, but not really towards them. It's not anything to do with their, you know, anything they've done or haven't done. But we've had opportunities along the way, you know, for my parent to have moved closer or to have moved into a more sheltered environment

and they just don't want to. I want to be in my home and that's what I want. And it's like, okay, you know, we'll do our best to try and help you and find you carers. and the carers are lovely. Sometimes there's a mismatch where somebody thinks somebody's coming one day and they're not. So if there's a gap,

I have to fill it. I have to find somebody to fill it because my parent just can't manage by themselves. They can't dress themselves. They can't manage by themselves. And it's perilous. You say that many of your friends are in the same boat and you wrote about the taboo

of not being able to express just how depressing it feels for you. Can you describe to us how it feels? I feel frustrated. I feel quite angry. I don't know at whom because it's not really a fault of anybody. I am frustrated particularly with the NHS that they do not join up. The doctors in the hospital do not talk to the GP. The GP doesn't talk to the social service.

that is really makes life difficult. And I do find this depressing. I thought I would be quite carefree for a few years. You know, I've put up my children by myself. I've run a business, you know, and I just thought I would have time off for good behavior. And I do. I mean, it's not like I'm trapped or anything,

but there is that constant background niggling. And, you know, if I go on holiday, it's quite likely I'll get a, you know, a WhatsApp about, you know, the health visitor not turning up. Is there any support available for you? Not that I know of. I mean, I have really good friends. I'm very lucky. Several of them are in the same position and equally frustrated and they feel they're doing quite a lot and their parent feels they're not doing enough. And it's like, but it's not just our responsibility. You know, surely it's not.

My children are definitely my responsibility, but I don't feel that my parent is. That was a listener. We're calling Sarah, and I'd like to thank Sarah for speaking to me so honestly there. Well, in the UK, some 3.3 million adults, age 40 to 60, currently care for or support an older parent, and roughly one in five people aged 50 to 64, or act as carers for an older family member.

Well, to discuss some of the issues and what support and advice is available, I'm joined now by Claire Jeffers, who co-runs care companies and has written the book, I'm your daughter, not your carer. And also by Caroline Abraham's, the charity director of Age UK.

Thank you both for joining me on Women's Hour. Caroline, can I start with you? Very candid there from Sarah. I wonder how common that feeling is. I think what's very common is the idea that you're having as the carer of an old person to join up all kinds of different services that don't talk to each other, that can't always be relied on and that aren't always very good. And that does make it's a lot harder than it needs to be or it should be.

So that's definitely an area which we need to do something about. And I'm sure we'll come on to that in a few minutes. Yeah, so for the children who are the carers then right now, many are daughters. And in this case, as Sarah said, an OAP supporting an OAP, what advice and support is available to them right now? Well, you can always ring age UK. And I think that's and get in touch with us because we do hear from lots and lots of people. We have a fantastic information and advice service. And we can direct people to what support is available locally, which we can.

might be through a local age UK or could be from another organisation. There are very good carer services in some places where people can get together and share their frustration, sometimes just talking about it helps and knowing you're not the only person in that situation. Careers UK is a lovely charity which does all of that work all across the country. So there is some support available. But the fact remains that we're living longer and that means we are going to find the people in their 60s say are going to be caring for older parents quite often. And that in a way is just one of the consequences of having an ageing population where we now have four-generation families quite commonly. So I know great-grandparents who are helping to look after

their great-grandchildren, which we never would have thought of all those years ago. Claire, can I bring you in? You cared for your own parents. And you say you didn't know how to say no. Can you tell me about that? I think there is generally, certainly from the 16 years of my experiences of running one of the Home Instead offices, I think there's always somebody within the family who takes responsibility for looking after mum or dad. And I've written a book because it's generally the daughter. And the conversations that I've had with daughters over the years is why me, why do I feel guilty about the fact that I don't want to care for my mother?

Why do I resent the fact that she's asking me to do stuff for her? I was in exactly that position. My mother used to generally, I mean, she's been dead for years now, but she would ring me up and she'd say, could you just pop over? And there was absolutely no popping over involved when you had two small children and potty training, one of them, and you had to load half your life into a car to take it down to your mother's house

so that she could ask you to just clean the oven or whatever silly, silly request that she had. So I think there is always one person, however big your family dynamic is, there's always one person that takes that responsibility. And it sounds very much like Sarah is that person who has taken on the burden. Yes, she's got siblings who aren't in this country.

But the world is a much smaller place now with technology. You know, does Sarah, does she need to be, taking on all the burden, all the responsibility that she currently does. Parents love having their children around, don't they? It doesn't matter how old they are. But does this cause another issue that no matter how much time or energy that you might give your elderly mum or dad, it will never be enough for them. They always want a bit more.

And what effect does that have do you think personally from you, but generally for people who are caring? I think there's this expectation, well, you know, mum needs me. You know, mum always expects me to drop everything when she needs me. And I think, I think, you know, a lot of what I write about in my book is about creating boundaries for yourself. How do you say no to mum? How do you say, you know, what, Mum? I mean, I think Sarah said that she, you know, she travels every week to see her mother.

Her mother's living in an inappropriate home. But, you know, it's her mother's home. there's nothing Sarah can do about moving mum out. Mum, I don't think, has got dementia. I think by the sounds of it, she's got capacity to make decisions. Therefore, there's nothing Sarah can do. So boundaries that Sarah can put in place to actually say to her mum, you know what, mum, I'm not doing this for you.

Actually, can you call on one of my siblings? Could she have a conversation with her siblings to say, right, can we carve up some of these responsibilities? I know you live in this country and you live in that country. but actually I'm not doing it anymore. Does she call out for help? Does she cry out for help and say, help me, I can't do this anymore. Or is she suffering in silence?

Because there's no medals for that. Sarah didn't specify whether it was her mum or her dad. She was caring for. If the care, though, is falling on one child, how can you broach that subject with your siblings? Well, it depends. It depends the relationship you've got with your siblings. You know, there are many people who don't have a good relationship with brothers or sisters

don't have a good relationship and never have done with their mum or their dad. And they now find themselves in this situation where they're caring for somebody who they don't really like or have never really got on with. So I guess it's what the relationship is that you have with your siblings as to how you tackle having that conversation. But I think there are a lot of women out there who just get on with it and don't say anything. So the start could be, can we have a family, conversation here because I'm not coping with this situation. We've had lots and lots of comments already on this. One here says, I've become a carer for my mother-in-law who's moved in with us. It's

becoming very hard, especially as I work and have children to look after. Yes, I feel resentment. A lot of it towards my partner's family who are not as supportive as they could be. This person says, I feel quite stuck. Caroline, what is the advice for women who are working and caring? Many feel that they have to give up their jobs because they have this second job of caring. Yes, I think my advice really would be to try and keep that job going if you possibly can. And there's a number of reasons for that. The first is because if you stop work, particularly if you're in midlife, as I think you're talking about it.

It can be really hard to get back into work once you're getting a certain age. There's a lot of age discrimination in the job market. And people often find that if they're out of work as carers and they've got to wait until they reach their state pension age to get the state pension, they're having to use the savings that they'd carefully put by to cushion their retirement just to keep going. I'm afraid at the moment being a carer in working life is an unpaid carer can be a recipe for poverty in later life. And so also, just for your own sanity, for seeing people, for keeping some kind of normal. life going, it's really helpful if you can keep working, even if it's only part-time. But of course, some employers are a lot more flexible and helpful than others. And we basically

need employers to step up as well, recognise the burdens and the responsibilities on people in midlife now and help them to be able to continue in employment. Someone who's messaged in to talk about that situation with work. They say my mum lived 10 years after her dementia diagnosis, although we eventually had living carers managing them and my mum's affairs meant my life wasn't my own and had limited capacity to work. Too difficult to pick up appropriate work again post-65 and state pension still a way off. Also have a daughter who needed additional support. Phil I have been impoverished and 10 plus years of my active life have been stolen. Thank you so much for sharing that to that person who got in touch. Claire, I just want to end this

item with you. You write an Anne finally in your book. You say to the daughter sitting in quiet exhaustion, wondering if anyone sees her, I want you to know you are doing a great job, you're doing the best you can, but it shouldn't cost you everything. So let me offer you this. Don't confuse responsibility with identity. Can you briefly tell me about that?

God, that makes me want to burst into tears just hearing what I've written. There is something called compassion fatigue. You know, it's real, it's real. You know, who's looking after you? You know, you're spending, the lady saying, 10 years of her life. Who is looking after you? You know, there's a little thing that I use, and it's called the, you know, the little bucket. You know, some days you're, you can pour

everything into a massive bucket and the world is fine. And then other days you have a bucket that's so small that you can't cope with anything. And it's okay to have little bucket days, recognize them. And if you're having too many of them, get help. Don't do it on your own. That's a big thing throughout my book. You do not have to do this on your own. to Claire and to Caroline, thank you so much. And of course, to Sarah who shared her thoughts with us. We've had so many comments, as I said. I'll read a couple here.

This person said, this is such an issue for many of us. It's so hard, and I'm so glad you are highlighting this. Thank God for the very honest woman who spoke to you. Someone else says, hi, women's hour. Having just listened to Sarah's story about caring for her elderly parents, I agree with the slightly taboo nature of expressing resentment at caring for elderly parents. This fits in with the expectation and responsibility

that falls upon women. We need to be challenging how gender plays a role in this situation. It's important for adult children who are carers to set boundaries and to look after themselves too. We need more of a voice about these silent scenarios. Thank you so much your comments already and please do continue to get in touch. 84844 is the number on WhatsApp.

We're 0300-100-444. Now, I'd like to turn to a topic that lots of our listeners requested we discuss this listener week and specifically to do with our next guest, Stacey Dugood. At 52, Stacey is a columnist and former fashion editor who once held positions at some of the world's top fashion brands, Prada, Armani, Netta Porter, Paul Smith. However, for the past 16 months, Stacey has been unemployed and actively applying for jobs to no avail. She estimates she's said over 150 applications received very few replies and not a single job interview. I'm delighted to say that Stacey has joined me in the studio now and I'm also joined by Ingrid Fawcett of Midlife 360,

which supports women in midlife at work and helps organisations to recognise and promote the value of midlife women in their workplace. Welcome both of you to Women's Hour. Stacey, I wonder if you can tell us briefly about, your career and where you've found yourself recently? Good morning. I have worked my entire life. I have worked from the fast-day job that we all used to do when we were kids. I've walked into jobs very, very easily throughout my entire career. I've worked for George Omani. As you mentioned, Paul Smith was my first job in London. Then I went to George Omani upon a recommendation of an editor. Then I ended up at Prada. And at Prada, I met with the then editor-in-chief of Elle magazine,

Lauren Candy, who offered me a job on the spot. I was at L for over a decade, and it was such a brilliant experience. And it was there I began to write. After I had my two children back to back in my late 30s, you know, working full time. And at that time, there wasn't so flexy hours. So I started to freelance at that point. Then I went back into the workplace, I did a maternity cover at Nettiporter. And then I did one of those big corporate jobs that you kind of always dream of as a journalist.

I was the editorial director of Harrods. I was at Harrods for just under three years, and it was during the COVID sort of era. And I was getting divorced, and there was the perimenopause collision, and so I decided to step back, look after the children. We were having a divorce.

It was not easy. But I still worked. I found getting consultancy really easy. When I say consultancy, I was working for brands, freelance, you know, on a contract. I was still doing my journalism and I wrote a book. I've always been very, very busy.

At the end of March, 2025, I could really see what AI was doing to the written word. It was coming over the horizon and I thought, you know what, it's time to pivot. Because my clients were suddenly using AI for things that I've been doing. You know, brand documents, social media feeds, you name it, caption writing. Brand storytelling was sort of going to AI. So I went to art school.

and my retirement plan, because I don't think I'll ever build to stop working, was always to set up an art business. So I pulled that forward. I started to build a Shopify account for my artworks, started to paint, and I thought, right, you know, running alongside that, I will get that one last job. At that point, I was 51. My children are teenagers at this point.

I'm ready to go. The worst of menopause is over. I'm on the right HRT. I feel in myself as a person, as a woman, calmer, cooler, more collected, just genuinely, all those kind of cliches that you hear is true. And I was ready to go. In April 2025, I started applying for jobs. I told myself, let's do, between, you know, minimum five, five a week. End of April, nothing.

No auto replies, nothing. May, the same. June, July, August, I started running out of money. I was too embarrassed to even mention this to my partner. Christmas, disaster. I was on my knees. Still no replies, nothing. And when you say on your knees, you were at a situation where you were struggling to buy food for your family?

Yes, I was. And I told no one. Well, this is not true. I told one girlfriend who one day had to put money into my bank account because I was 10 pounds short. at the supermarket till. So going from a so-called glittering career, it doesn't matter what your career was. It doesn't matter if you had a so-called glamorous career.

We are facing a crisis, middle-life women, and there's a reason for it. We are being filtered out by AI based on gendered ageism that is a reflection of societal views, the AI embedded within automated recruitment. is simply a reflection of those embedded by that bias. So I only realized this in March this year. I was desperate.

My boyfriend at this point is now buying my groceries. I had to come clean. I said, look, I was embarrassed. It was so shameful. I felt, have I lied to him? Does he think he's with this kind of high-flying, got-it-together woman? And actually, I don't have enough money to put petrol in the car.

I signed on benefits in March. I faced my reality. And you shared your story, didn't you? That came in end of May, early June, and I'll tell you why it came. It was because I sent my CV to a girlfriend of mine who works for a big law firm in London. And I said, I can't get a job. She said, I don't believe you. This is the classic thing, by the way.

Yes. When you tell someone you can't get a job, especially parents, family, friends, close friends, they don't believe you. And she said, Stacey, this is an old lady's CV. You need to Botox it. And by Botox it, you. She meant reduce my entire identity, my entire work experience, my work life down to seven years. Remove my age, remove all semblance of who I am. And then I got mad.

I thought this can't be legal. It just can't be. So you're telling me I need to reduce myself to seven years' experience. I need to change the way that I write in order to, there's a thing called ATS applicant tracking system. It reads the CV in a Word document, prefers a Word document to a PDF, who knew, not me. It can even tell how old you are,

even if you don't put your date of birth on. How? By your name, by the words you use. I want to come on to that with Ingrid in a moment about what we can do and why this is happening. But I'm interested to hear what it was like when you did share your story on Instagram, Were you surprised by the response? Because your post was very honest.

Yes. So I went to, I took to Instagram stories first. Now, Instagram stories, they delete after 24 hours. And the reason I did that, because I was, A, filled with shame and B, still hoping that one of the brands I'd always sort of, you know, been around, worked with, whether it was L or whomever, they would still employ me. So I didn't want to bite the hand that fed me. But I, it turns out the hand, I didn't even see. the job application in the first place because, you know, they weren't even getting my applications, but that's a whole other story. So I posted to my Instagram stories how I felt, how frustrated it was,

is it just me, no auto replies, I'm being ghosted, it's worse than a dating app, what is going on? And then what happened, in response to the Instagram stories, there were hundreds of messages. So then I posted two days later a little carousel of slides on my main feed really sort of summarising some of the stories that had come through to me. That went viral. I then, two days after that, did a piece to camera where I'm just talking to my phone in the street. That blew up. And I'm talking...

So so many women, sorry to interrupt you, but so many women got in touch. Let me bring in Ingrid here. Ingrid, this is clearly not just Stacey who's going through this. Why are midlife women struggling to find employment? I mean, there's so many different elements to this. And to be fair, Stacey did everything right. You know, you did everything that you cut. I think women naturally are facing a bias, you know,

and the AI system compounds that really. and those feelings of shame and anger and frustration and how we identify ourselves with our careers and our jobs. When all that is lost, it's devastating. And I think more and more women now, because of, like we've mentioned earlier, that sandwich generation where we are dealing with children leaving, we're dealing with elderly parents,

menopause is another level of ridiculous that gets thrown at us. And then we're also trying to navigate a system that isn't built for women. It isn't built for us. It's built for the people who are graduates. And there's nothing wrong with being a graduate, but what women bring who we're in midlife, they have that level of understanding.

They have lived experience. They have all of these things that isn't recognised by a tracking system. How frustrating, though, that Stacey was told Botox your CV, you know, another example of women's age being a penalty? Absolutely. And it's hugely frustrating. but it is a little bit of the sign of the times, I suppose,

that you have to work with the system and you're trying to batter against it, you're going to be making yourself more and more unwell by feeling so annoyed and angry about it. So it is hugely frustrating, but that's what's being created. Is AI going to carry on in this way, or can it be drawn back?

Is it going to plateau? Are people going to realise it isn't the be-all and end-all for recruiting? You'd kind of hope so, because you're missing the personal touch, you're missing what makes people who they are and what they bring to the party. We should say there will be men listening who of course, you know, mid-50s in mid-life, sorry,

also find it hard to get a new job. In one of your Instagram posts, Stacey, you said a friend who worked in HR suggested that mid-life women are opinionated and aren't easy to manipulate, so not appealing to hire. How Wiseboro do you think that view is? I think that our job now as women is to begin to break down these tropes.

They are excuses used and just thrown at us. You're not a cultural fit. You're too old. You're sloping towards retirement. All of these are being levied at women and it is unfair. It is blatant ageism. It's time to call this out. And although we can, you know, we can play the system,

we can embed invisible keywords, which is what a lot of younger people do. They write in white ink on their CV, ink, you know what I mean, font. And they have embedded keywords that are invisible. So they can bypass the systems. I'm arguing it's the system that's broken, not us. I'm arguing that this is reductive and that the government needs to have better governance

over the recruitment industry. And that is what I'm calling for. Ingrid, just finally, if there are people listening, and actually we've had a comment here from one listener who says, I completely identify the Stacey's story of midlife poverty and joblessness, I feel so much shame and powerlessness. It's nice to know I'm not alone, but wish no one was in this situation. That's from Sammy. Sammy, thanks for getting in touch. Ingrid, just finally, what can women do her in this situation, apart from Botox, your CV? I think it's looking at things creatively.

So if the application system isn't working for you, how can you use LinkedIn? How can you use your network? How can you use your references? Who can you talk to that knows who you are on what you do rather than going out blind and trying to sort of navigate that? Use the time that you've got. Find a platform that works for you. Find a recruiter who you can build a relationship with because they will know the market

that you're looking to go into. And just remember that you have those transferable skills. and it's how you present those and how you're able to take those to market and just be a little bit more savvy about it and no disservice to Stacey because it's a very specific market that she was working in but trying to make sure that you are being the best version of yourself and trying to get there through commenting on LinkedIn through writing thought pieces on LinkedIn but getting yourself out there so you're in a position where people go well that's interesting there's something more there's something more depth so trying to work it that way around

I totally agree. And actually, that's the conclusion that I've come to as well, that actually use your network. And there's this argument, oh, I don't have a network, or my network has rung dry, or I've stepped out of the workplace for two years to do, you know, for caring responsibilities. I don't have a network. It is about creating a network, which is the reason I've set up a community chat called Encore,

for women to come together and be able to air and share an offline. their sense of shame and also network and upskill. Thank you so much for talking to us. That's Stacey and Ingrid there. And of course, do get in touch with us if you've got any comments on that. A reminder it is, of course, listener week. We want to hear from you still. If today's program has inspired you to get in touch with your story.

We've been talking about caring responsibilities today, particularly older people caring for even older parents. so many of you who have got in touch. Thank you very much. This one here says my experience of caring for parents echoes exactly that of the speaker. It's a living nightmare. You're never off duty.

And it's been like it for 10 years. Another person messaged in to say, my goodness, this discussion about reluctantly caring for a parent rings so many bells. I cared for my mother whilst working, we never really got on. And I always felt an enormous knot of frustration in my stomach, which I can still sense when listening to your program.

She died a year ago, sad, but also a great relief to get my life back, but also guilt. So many of you have talked with that feeling of guilt. Thank you very much for getting in touch. There's still time to share your thoughts. Just text dot on 84844 or on social media. It's at BBC Woman's Hour. Now, how many people can call themselves a fashion and style influencer in their 80s? Well, listener Laura got in touch to suggest that we interview Viv the Carer

about the timeless fashion as women get older. She adds, I love her energy. Well, Viv Trueren is her name, and she's 82. And she shares her morning outfit of the day and posts it on Instagram with her more than 800,000 followers. Delighted to say. Viv joins me now from her home in South Wales. Hello to you, Viv. Well, good morning to you too.

Oh, looking lovely, as always. You've got your signature glasses on, as I can see. there. Obviously for our listeners, I'll explain them. They are lovely red-rimmed glasses today. In your video I watched yesterday, I think you were wearing blue ones. We'll talk about your glasses a bit more in a minute, but I want to hear how you started this all off, posting your outfit videos online. Oh, well, I'll have to go back to the beginning, which is COVID. And during COVID, of course, we were all in bubbles and things. Well, I happen to be in a bubble with my neighbour James. we both had in the cul-de-sac

and he lived at the end of the road and he used to work in London and he was working from home and I thought, oh, that poor boy so if I was cooking something, I'd take him down a slice and a little bit of cake or something and then when we were allowed to

move to, you know, be together he used to come and sit in my kitchen and, you know, he'd say something and I'd just go off on one you know, like we women do, oh for goodness sake. Anyway, he said, I'm going to put you on an Instagram and I said, well, do what you like, I don't care. And that's how it started.

When he was going to be a would-be racing car driver. And I thought, well, I've got to be a would-be something. So I thought I'd be a would-be fashionist. Well, you've done very well at it, haven't you? I wonder if fashion's always been important to you in your life and how you describe your style. Passion has not been important into me in my life, no. I think as we grow old, we all get a style that we know is ours, etc.

I mean, I worked in computers when computers was the size of a ballroom with a 36K memory. You know, you've got more on your wrist now than I ever had. And so I did that until I was 48. And at 48, I was lucky to get early retirement. And I became an anti-dealer. And my third career is an influencer. Well, I mean, it is great. And so many people seem to resonate with you.

but it's not just women your age, is it? No, I find this absolutely amazing. My sort of main core followers are 25 to 45. But I have a theory. And the theory is they look at me and then they go home to their mum and they say, look, mum, if this woman of 82 can do this, I'm sure you can get out and do something.

That's my theory. You must get lots of messages from followers as well. And I wonder what they're saying to your mum. what kind of means the most to you that they say? Well, I love the ones that say, you've inspired me to try this. Oh, you make me smile. I love it when they say you made me smile. I mean, I can understand when I make them smile.

Because if you think of it, the other day, I put on my face some cream that I thought was moisturiser, and it turned out it was to tan your legs. I don't, I went this terrible colour. And whereas, well, you know, I've always the worst have done that, haven't we? We've all done something silly, haven't we? But I happen to put mine on Instagram, my silly things. Yeah, it's sharing, isn't it? And the honesty, I guess, that's so lovely about your videos.

I mentioned your glasses, and I guess bright colours have kind of become part of your look as well. And I saw in one of your videos, I think you've got a whole drawer of different glasses. Why are they, why is it important to you, this kind of self-expression? I don't know. I think, well, part of it is I don't wear makeup. So I, so I'm no makeup at all. And it's my face jewelry. I don't wear or not a jewelry either. But I love glasses.

I just think they're just another accessory, but they're a great accessory. And I love them. And people all say to me, are they prescription? Well, yes, they are prescription. But luckily, my eyes haven't changed too much. Because I don't know what I'm going to do when they do. It's going to cost me a fortune. I think I'd like to take out a bank loan.

Do you think the fashion world has underestimated older women for too long? But, you know, both our customers and also as influencers. Well, absolutely. I think in the past, as we've got older, we think we're just slip into not being seen. Why aren't we seen? Of course we can be seen. And wear bright colours. Wear what you're what makes you comfortable.

But definitely, where what makes you happy. It's all about being happy. And if you're happy, that gives you confidence. And so if you've got confidence, you can go up there and do it. So, yeah, clothes are important. They give you confidence to be yourself. I love that. And companies approach you, don't they, to promote their clothing,

not mentioning any brands, of course. But what do you make of having that kind of influence and these big businesses coming to you? You can't believe it, in you, I can't. I find it very strange. Can I just say yesterday, I walked into a shop when a lady came up to me and she put an arm on me, he said,

oh, you're there? And I said, yes. And she said, oh, I'm so sorry, she said, but I think you're my friend. She said, I'm so sorry I put my arm around you. And I said, it's not a problem. And I just think it's so nice, but it's surreal for me. I can't believe it. I mean,

it's 20 months, and 80,000 people follow me. I don't understand why. 800,000, isn't it? Oh, yeah, absolutely. Oh, my gosh. Yes, it's $100. I know, and growing so quickly as well. Absolutely.

Do you, you're wearing a lovely crisp white shirt and your pearls today looking very classic. I wonder if you have a favourite item of clothing or a favourite outfit. And what is it about that piece that you like to wear? Well, for most of the time, I love at the moment it's palaxo jeans. I have sort of six pairs in all... They're the very wide ones, aren't they? They're very wide ones. And people keep saying,

you'll be careful, Viv, and you've got to trip. You have to wear the right shoes with them, but I love those at the moment. I'm running five foot two, and I'm a size 14. So I'm a little bit rounded. Yes, not a little bit, I'm rounded. I think you look wonderful, Viv.

And I think that the Palazzo jeans, give me that little bit of extra height, So I always feel comfortable in those. So at the moment, they're my favourite. But my favourite especially is a scarf. Oh, yeah. We don't really want that right now, do we though? It's too hot, isn't it, Viv?

No. I believe there's some, there are certainly some things that you wouldn't promote, aren't there? You've been in touch with certain companies. Absolutely. I'd like to say, the other thing people like about me, they say I am authentic. Well, if being me is being authentic, then I'm authentic. And so I will only promote things that I use and where I'm not going to say to you, you know, if I don't want it in my house, you know. And what about, and I believe you were, you were

approached to promote some kind of walking device? Yes, I've been approached because an age isn't thing, isn't it? They've seen me. I j to do, oh, she'd be great to do electric chairs or something like that. Might do James and he's the other part of this. Because without him, there wouldn't be a Viv the carer because he does all the work. But he keeps saying to me, I'm going to get you one of those chairs and you can whiz around. Well, he's not. End of sports. Forget it.

Well, I must just say that you're known as Viv the carer, but you're not actually a carer now. That's just the Instagram handle, so to speak, that was given to you. Just finally, Viv, what would you say to women out there who may be a similar age to you, who are worried about what to wear it and won't maybe wear what they really want to? Just have the courage of your convictions. If you like it, it makes you feel good, then wear it. Do you know, actually, nobody's looking?

Well, perhaps you're not, 800,000. But for most of us, you know, and most of the time, nobody is looking at it. So just be comfortable in yourself. Wear what you like. We only get one chance in this world, don't we? Be yourself. Viv, it's absolutely wonderful to speak to you. Viv, Truro and there. Thank you so much.

Now, one of the pleasures of Listener Week is hearing about worlds many of us know very little about. And we were contacted by women in boat building, a community of women working hands-on in the industry who wanted to tell us about their experiences and raise the profile of a trade that's largely male-dominated. Well, I'm delighted to say that I'm joined by Abby Molyneux, a traditional boat builder who runs her own boatyard in Norfolk and also. is a director of women in boat building and also by Vanessa Larmand who's just starting out in the industry in Southford in Suffolk. Lovely to see you both today. Thank you very much for coming in.

Thank you for having us. Abby, can I start with you? You're a traditional boat builder, as I said, running your own boatyard in Norfolk. So what does that involve? Everything really. So running a traditional boatyard, I always joke that it's kind of

25 jobs all in one. You have to know how to build the boat. You have to know how to manage the team. You have to know how to do all the ordering, all the supply work. And you know, have to know how they all work, float them, sail them, deal with all the customers, interior design, designing the boats, making all that, sort of communicating that to your team and making it all come true. And it's, yeah, it's why I like it because it kind of, it fills up every aspect of my brain, keeps you busy. There's never a board moment. And you were on the Thames at the weekend with one of your boats, the lifeboat that's called the Guide of Dunkirk, which helped actually evacuate soldiers from

Dunkirk. Can you tell me about what you did with that boat? Yeah, so we've just spent the last 12 months restoring a lifeboat called Guide of Dunkirk. She was built in 1939 and the day she was launched, she was sent straight to the beaches of Dunkirk to rescue the soldiers from the beaches. So we're using her as a platform for traditional boat building, women in boat building, and just to advertise the classic boat industry to a wider audience. So we've been in St Catherine's dock all weekend for an open weekend, showing the public round and telling the story as well and bringing the history alive for people and connecting all those generations of people.

So people have come to us this weekend and they've told us, stories about their grandfather that was rescued and can we help them find which boat it was on and it connects all that and it brings it to life for the kids as well and it also shows that you know there's practical hands-on craftsmanship is is a career and you can do it and we still exist and it's it does so many good things all wrapped up in one as i said you're one of the directors of women in boat building what what are the challenges that women in faith women face both getting into the trade and then once they're working in it? Yeah, well, it's obviously a male-dominated trade.

From a business point of view, I found it really hard setting up just to be taken seriously. And I was really lucky to have the support of the man that trained me. And the reference from him is what helped me build my business. And without that, I'd have struggled to get the credibility from people. Because I'm young, but also because I'm female. and it can be really intimidating and it can be really lonely. I mean, for nine years I was the only woman. And that's a really lonely place to be.

And women in boat building is a community. And it doesn't favour women over men, but it supports them. I mean, in a workshop space, all the men that I worked with had each other, whereas I didn't have that. So we've kind of artificially created it by pulling all the women from all around the globe, really, to create this network of people so that we can support each other. Vanessa, if I can bring you in, you've been working as a boat builder in South World for the last two years. You're in your 40s now, but you spent muster of your life, didn't you, chasing this dream? I did, yeah.

Tell me about it. So I've always had a fascination with boats. I don't really know where that's come from. And so when I was able to choose my own direction, I went to Coventry University to start off with and did a boat design, well, wanted to go on the boat design course, but they put me on a foundation to start off with. So I used to sneak into the tuition of the people

who were doing the boat design course, which made me realise it wasn't the course that I wanted to do because it wasn't hands-on enough. So I did my one year, and then I moved on to Darby University, and I did a sustainable design course, which allows you to choose what you want, want to do at the end of the course. So the first year, everybody does the same. In the second and third year, you get to choose what you want to specialize in. And I was like, I want to build a boat. Can I do that here?

And they were like, yes, it didn't work out. So then I had a couple of children and I found out about the boat building course, the IBT in Lower Stoft. So I saved for eight years. And then me and my family moved to Lower Stoft and I did the course. I finished on the Friday. I started working at Harbour Marine Services in Lower Stoft on the Monday after I finished the course. That is a big commitment, isn't it, to choose to move your whole family. And, you know, basically to follow your dream. Yeah.

What did they say when you said we were about to do this? I think my daughter probably didn't believe me because we say things as parents, oh, we're going to do this, we're going to go here. And she was just like, I never thought it was going to happen. And it did. So I think that was a bit of a shock. But I think they've grown a lot from it. To me, reading about both of you, it almost sounds like a calling to go and build boats.

And Abby, it's in your blood, isn't it? It is. It's in my blood. I only discovered that later in my career. But it is just where I'm meant to be and what I'm meant to do. And I think if you can find it. find a job that you love. People tell me I need a hobby and I should go on holidays and I should have a life.

But I love what I do. Why would I want to be anywhere else? I feel incredibly lucky to have found that. And it's a really difficult trade to get into. And Vanessa's story is a good example of that. That like there is no government funded training. So if you want to do this, you either have to save up an awful lot of money for a very long time. Or you have to put yourself at risk.

and live what is quite a difficult life and train in boat yards and be quite transient, which is what I did. So if you want this, you really have to work for it. Can you both describe, Abby, maybe you first, what you actually love about it? What, like, day to day, what is it that you really enjoy? You know, is it literally doing the work on the boat

that is the thing that drives you? Yeah, well, I'm a very physical person. Like, I have to be busy in doing something with my hands, but I think for me it's the creativity behind it. There is no manual, there's no set of instructions, there's no complicated mathematics that you have to know and learn and follow. You just create shapes in empty spaces and you bring stuff back to life and you do that by eye and with your own creative kind of interpretation of what it is you're doing.

And for me, the freedom of that combined with the physical skill of actually doing, doing it and being stood in a pile of sawdust and, you know, it's, yeah, I just love it. What about for you, Vanessa? I think it's every day's different. You don't know what you're going into. And it's the kind of like, okay, you need to do this. And you're not told how to do it. You have to figure it out for yourself. And you have to sit there and think, okay, how am I going to do that? How am I going to make that fit? This is under here.

What do I need to take apart? How am I going to put it back together? How is it going to look good when I'm done? And it's like, and you get to do the varnishing. You get to do the cleaning. You're underneath a boat, you're climbing up ladders, and it's really active. And I hate sitting still. So for me, this really works. And I like the fact that, oh, there's a rickety ladder.

I'm going about two stories up, and then I'm going to climb over the boat. Every boat that comes into our boatyard I go into every single one. It's like, I want to see what it looks like. I want to have a look inside. What is it like to be in this space? What's in here? And all the different compartments and how everything goes together. It varies between one boat and another, and I just love it.

So I'm just like, I'm just like, I want. want to go and see what that boat looks like. Oh, sounds so great. Abby, I was really interested to hear. You don't actually really like being on boats. No, I'm not a boater at all. So boating for me, as soon as they start floating, you're sitting still.

There's nothing to do. You're sat staring at the sea or the river or, yeah. It's also for me, I have like a huge understanding of how they work and what all the variables are. I know the age and I know the wear and tear on each individual bit. And like I just, I can't switch my brain off long enough to sit still and enjoy something like that. I just, yeah, coming into London on Friday was really exciting though. Coming under Tower Bridge and being rocked around by the Thames Clippers and the Uber boats and stuff.

That was good. Yeah, I enjoyed that. Just finally, to both of you, what would you say to women and girls who are listening who might be thinking, you know, I'd love to do that? Yeah, I think it's not for everybody. But if you have that kind of creative brain and that need to be physical and hands on, just don't let anybody tell you you can't do something. You can put your hands to whatever you like

and there is a space for you out there and don't let anybody tell you there isn't. What about you, Vanessa? I say fight for it. Whatever you want to do, fight for it. And keep going and keep finding ways in. and also talk to people because people always know a way in if you can't think of something and go to, if it is a boatyard, go to a boatyard, go again, go again, go again,

ring them, sit in their office, tell them that you want this job and that you'll work for it. Because they took a chance on me straight from college and I was like, I will do anything, I will, you know, I'll put in everything and I hope that they believe that I've done that. But you can't help and sit there at break time looking over the river and think, this is beautiful. How did I get here?

Well, it sounds like a lot of hard work is what you got. And I'm so grateful. It's wonderful to speak to you both and hear about your passion. Thank you for joining us here on Listener Week on Women's Hour. That's Vanessa and Abby speaking to me there. We have had so many comments coming in, particularly about caring for parents, particularly when you might be older yourself.

This one here says, hello, woman's out. Thank you, Sarah, for highlighting looking after a parent in your 60s. It resonated so much. Myself and my sister, who is younger, don't get on. We care for our mum who is close by. My sister works. I'm retired. She treats me like her employee, even making me feel guilty if I take a holiday.

I never thought a long-anticipated retirement with my husband would feel so much like being back at work. Thank you so much for messaging in. Another one here on the same subject. listening to pensioners caring for parents. I can relate to the last lady, Sarah. I'm 71 living alone. My mum nearly 93. Since retiring myself, no let up.

Dad died, sister died. Mum been insisting on staying in home. Since Dad went, services are very limited. Thank you so much to all of you for getting in touch and sharing your views. Tomorrow, listener, we continues. One listener wanted to talk about men. and the noises they make as they get older, like coughing and sniffing. So we'll be investigating that.

Do join me tomorrow if you can. But for now, thank you very much indeed for listening. That's all for today's Woman's Hour. Join us again next time. Parenting a young child today means navigating a whirlwind of advice, opinions and relentless information. Tell me about it, Katie. But the good news is CBB's parenting download is here to take the edge off. Join me, Katie Thistleton, Radio Wighton.

presenter and new mum. And me, Governor B, Mobo Award winning rapper and dad of two, as we discover and unpack what it really means to be a parent. From the art of negotiation to tips on dealing with parental anxiety. Each episode, we're joined by well-known parents and trusted professionals to share their own experiences. People say you never know until you have your own, but no one ever really gets into what that means. And it's very true. Someone, when I was on my first walk with him alone in the pram, someone went, press agreement, yeah, you went congratulations, went cheers. And he went, welcome to the truth club. I went, what do you mean?

You went, you'll find out soon enough. And to provide useful tools and advice to tackle the daily challenges that come with parenting, offering honest conversations and expert insight that can really help. The biggest thing that I've noticed since I became a negotiator is we don't listen. We're really good at pretending we listen and we do this, don't we? So our young people in our life, especially are talking away. You've asked them a question. They're answering the question and you're like this.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Because you're not really interested because you're already thinking about what's next. We've learnt so much already. So whether you're a first-time parent, you've got multiple kids, you're a carer or a grandparent, this podcast is for you.

Search for CBB's parents in download with me, Katie Thistleton. And me, Governor B. Listen now on BBC Sounds.