Woman's Hour - Mary Berry, Lynda La Plante

Episode Date: April 7, 2020

Running a household in the Coronavirus lockdown can feel a bit like we’re back in the 1950’s. Calling over the fence to borrow a cup of sugar has once more become a reality as some foods are now in short supply, and there’s ‘rationing’ of items in supermarkets, though some of those restrictions are now lifting. But every last breadcrumb counts if you don’t want to or indeed can’t leave the house. Jane asks dietitian Priya Tew and baking legend Mary Berry for their tips on how to maintain a healthy diet and make the most of what you’ve got. Mary also gives us her recipe for lockdown birthday cake.MARY BERRY’S ‘LOCKDOWN’ BIRTHDAY CAKEVICTORIA SANDWICH INGREDIENTS FOR THE SPONGE • 225g baking spread • 225g caster sugar • 225g self-raising flour • 1 tsp baking powder • 4 large eggs FOR THE FILLING AND TOPPING • About 4 tbsp raspberry or strawberry jam • A little caster sugar INSTRUCTIONS Makes 6-8 slices 1. Preheat the oven to 180°C/fan 160°C/gas mark 4. Cut 2 greaseproof paper circles, grease the sandwich tins with baking spread and put the circles inside. Grease the circles. 2. Place the baking spread in a large mixing bowl, then add the caster sugar, self-raising flour and baking powder. Crack the eggs one at a time and then add to the bowl. 3. Using the electric mixer on slow speed, beat for 2 minutes until smooth. The mixture will be soft enough to drop off the beaters when you lift them up. 4. Divide the mixture equally between the prepared tins and level the surfaces with a palette knife or spatula. Place in the oven and bake for 20-30 minutes. 5. The cakes are ready when they are risen and pale golden. The tops should spring back when lightly pressed. Cool for about 2 minutes; loosen the edges with a knife. 6. Push the cased out of the tins on their bases, invert them and remove the bases. Cool the cakes the right way up on a rack. Soften the jam with a palette knife. 7. When the cakes are cold, remove the lining papers and invert one cake layer onto a plate. Spread with jam, put the other layer on top and sprinkle with caster sugar. This recipe is taken from: Baking Bible (BBC Books)The charity Citizens Advice has found that almost half of survivors of domestic abuse have had their post intercepted, opened or hidden by the perpetrator. This has resulted in missed medical treatments, isolation from vital support networks and billions in cost to survivors as a result of hidden bills or credit taken out in their identity. How can these victims of domestic abuse - and their families - receive better support? Dr Nicola Sharp-Jeffs is the Chief Executive of Surviving Economic Abuse. Anne Pardoe is a Policy Manager at Citizens Advice. Shana experienced economic abuse herself. What’s it like losing your dream job to Coronavirus? In today’s Woman’s Hour Corona Diaries, we hear from 21 year old Elizabeth who lives near Bude in Cornwall. She’d started working as a singer on a cruise ship when the Covid-19 crisis left her back on dry land and helping out on the family dairy farm. Although she wants to stay positive about getting back out to sea, she talks to Jane about the prospect of taking on the farm should anything happen to her parents. Lynda La Plante speaks to Jane about Buried, the first in her latest series of crime thriller books Presenter: Jane Garvey Producer: Caroline Donne Interviewed guest: Mary Berry Interviewed guest: Priya Tew Interviewed guest: Dr Nicola Sharp-Jeffs Interviewed guest: Anne Pardoe Interviewed guest: Lynda La Plante

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BBC Sounds. Music, radio, podcasts. Hi, this is Jane Garvey and this is the Woman's Hour podcast from Tuesday the 7th of April 2020. On the programme today we're going to hear from the great writer Linda LaPlante. She started a whole new series of books. She's got a new hero this time round. So we'll hear from Linda a little bit later on. And we'll also have another fantastic Woman's Hour coronavirus diary. This morning you can hear from Linda a little bit later on and we'll also have another fantastic

Woman's Hour Coronavirus Diary. This morning you can hear from Elizabeth. She's very young, she's just 21. She was living her dream and she's now back on the family farm in Cornwall and life is very different, very, very different. You'll hear from her a little bit later. Let's start though in the company of Mary Berry

and the diitian Priya Choo. Good morning to you both. Great to have you on the programme today. Good morning. Hello, Mary. Good morning. Priya, good morning to you as well. Priya in Southampton. Mary joins us from her relatively new home, actually. I think it's in Oxfordshire. That's right, isn't it, Mary? That's right, yes. And the sun's shining.

Yes, it is, actually. We must hang on to the fact that it is a truly beautiful morning here, actually. I trust beautiful across much of the UK. So whatever else is going on, spring is still happening. Mary, tell us about your lockdown. How has it been for you? I just feel immensely fortunate. We've got a garden. We've got dogs that we can walk.

I'm so fortunate to have my husband. There's just the two of us. And we've got time to do all the things that I ought to do. I can ring old friends, have a bit of a chat. Some of them are on their own. You know, when you get to my age, you know a lot of widows. And I just feel very fortunate. I'm doing a lot of cooking, things that my husband and I enjoy most.

Well, that's brilliant. Once a week. Yeah, it's brilliant that you say that you're making contact with people because I've got an email here from a listener called Vanessa. So good morning to you, Vanessa. I hope you're listening today. On the subject of loneliness, she says, I was widowed 20 years ago when I was just 55,

and I felt very lonely and isolated at times despite having lots of interests and keeping active suddenly in the lockdown I'm feeling less lonely I've had calls from people I haven't heard from for years they are now feeling the isolation for me that's a silver lining so that is exactly what you're talking about, Mary. Exactly, yes. And it's lovely to catch up and have all sorts of memories to chat about and find out what they're doing. I mean, my own children, who I've got contact by phone, they're all cooking like mad.

One of them's going, a couple of them are going to university and Sarah's giving them cooking lessons of things that they really like and will be able to do with few ingredients. Yeah, OK. And that's the important thing, isn't it? Because some of us are struggling to get various things. What could you recommend in terms of basic stuff? What are the absolute essentials that you can't live without? The essentials, I like to have a backup of tinned goods and things in my freezer. I mean, obviously pastas, which have been short in the supermarkets, I believe. Remember with pasta, if you want to make lasagna, you could use any of the other pastas that you've got.

Cook them a bit first and, you know, even penne in layers or tagliatelle in layers. So I would like pastas and rices and tinned things in my freezer. I've always got frozen peas and, you know, you may not get them on your next visit to the supermarket, but to have them on hand, I think, is great. And bread, too. We're only two. So when I buy a big loaf, I divide it into three and wrap some of it and put it in the freezer. So I've always got fresh bread. We mustn't have waste. We mustn't throw away.

No, not at the moment. I know, of course, you were only a child during World War II. We must remember that. But you have pretty clear memories tea, I will be able to make cakes and the odd pud during the war. I mean, things were difficult because, you know, you grew everything yourself and, you know, flower beds were turned into vegetable patches. And we made the most of vegetables and we were lucky to be in the country and have chickens and things. Let's bring in Priya. Priya, you have three kids. They are three, six and nine. That's right, isn't it?

Yes, that's right. Right. You're a dietician. You're also a single parent. So that's the three kids and the single parent thing. That is not easy at the moment. Not easy any time. It's been a huge adaptation to suddenly having them home and trying to work. And I also run a very busy Pilates studio as well.

So it is full on at the minute. Yeah, well, they're up and at it, as you'd expect, by almost 10 past 10 in the morning. What are you eating? What are you able to get? So we have been able to get most things. Pasta has been a little bit short, as have frozen vegetables. So when I went recently there were only brussel sprouts left um nobody wanted the brussel sprouts it would seem the things that I have really struggled to get are the free from food so I've got a lactose

intolerant child and I can't eat wheat myself so gluten gluten free flour has not been around and lactose free milk as well. That's odd, isn't it? Do you think people are buying in bulk or buying stuff because they mistake it for something else or what? What's going on? Well, I did go and I did a shop and I saw quite a few people with lactose free milk. And I thought, oh, there just must be more people that need this milk at the minute. But I think that people have been buying it up because it's long life. So therefore they're buying that instead of their usual milk. So they've got a stockpile. Right.

And maybe it's the same with the flour. Now tell me about shopping, actually getting to the shop when you've got the kids and it's just you as the sole adult. Is that possible? Can you go into the shop with the kids? I found it really hard because I don't want to take my children around the shop at the minute. They're going to be touching things and picking everything up and running around creating chaos, which you can't really do with

social distancing. So I've been relying more on the smaller local shops and I've been leaving them outside or by the security guard. I'm finding that's the easiest thing to do. Right. Mary, here's a question for you that I have to say I did not expect. But it's from Jackie, who says she's a reasonable cook and a keen gardener. Her question is, can you eat ground elder? As far as I know, I wouldn't. Right.

I would have to ask the RHS. The answer is I don't know. No, I know, I wouldn't. I would have to ask the RHS. The answer is I don't know. It's not one of the things that I've been noted you eat of wild foods like nettles. I've got a friend who's making nettle soup from young nettles at the moment. Is that actually a tasty soup, nettle soup? It can be, but you've got to use very young nettles. Right. Let that be a lesson to all of us. Here is Anna

on email, hearing that Mary Berry was on today. I want to tell her that in each of my pregnancies, I have read her autobiography. There we are. I don't know what that tells you. I hope it cheers her up. It must be a hormonal thing. As soon as we went into

lockdown, says Anna, and pasta somehow disappeared from the shelves, I was reminded of Mary's description of her mother's ingenious cooking during the days of rationing. So there you go, there's a nod to your mum again. Actually, you mentioned lasagna and using other forms of pasta in lasagna. What you can also do, Priya, presumably, is tear up lasagna and stick it in a pasta sauce and pretend it's bigger and chunkier than it actually is. Yeah, that's a great idea. Or the other idea would be look for rice noodles, look for different types of pasta that you wouldn't normally try

and give those a go. And what about the food parcels that the government is supplying to, we think at the moment, approximately 50,000 people? What do you know about them, Priya? I think they sound like a really good idea for those people who are having to self-isolate for a long time and can't get to the shops. So I've got a friend locally who received one and he put the picture on Facebook. So I contacted him and asked exactly what was in it and he told me that he had got tins of peas, chopped tomatoes, he had some pasta and baked

beans, tuna, bolognese sauce, some tomato soup and some ready brek, some potatoes, bread, long life milk and some apples. Right, you're right. I think the parcels do differ depending on whereabouts in the country you are. Just as a dietician, what do you think of that? What do I think about the parcel? What do I think about them varying? I think the parcels are a really good idea if they contain ingredients that you can make some meals from. Is that parcel good enough? Yes, that parcel. You could certainly use your tinned tomatoes and your tuna to make a pasta dish. You've got your baked beans on toast that you could easily make. There's bolognese sauce and pasta and there's vegetables in there as well.

So I think that parcel sounded really good. Yeah. Mary, the simple way to make a tomato sauce. Can you remind us? I mean, if you've got a tin of tomatoes, what can you do? Funnily enough, I was making a basic tomato sauce yesterday. First of all, I start off with an onion and I cook, I just cut it up roughly and then I cook it down in very, very low heat in a little bit of oil or butter until that's absolutely tender. I then would add some garlic.

Then I'd add the canned tomatoes. And if I've got tomato puree or sun-dried tomato paste, I put that in. And if I've got a drop of wine, I'll drop that in as well. But it's unlikely the wine's left over. Yeah, well, you said it, Mary. Can I ask something about snacking? Because this is a question that's come in from our listeners and I confess that we're all anxious.

This is a stressful time and many of us are closer to our fridge for more of the day than we're used to and I'm afraid that means that we're making increasing visits. So, Priya, what do you say about that? What is the healthy snack? If you can get in some nuts and some dried fruit and have those to hand, but do let yourself have things that you really fancy. So we need to be allowing ourselves to have bits of cake or chocolate bars or whatever it might be to satisfy that craving. So it's OK to have those foods foods but try and balance them up so I say to my children

when they ask for sweets certainly have the sweet thing but you know have some fruit have some nuts to go alongside it and then we close the kitchen so we put our snack on a plate we go away and we eat it and then that's it snack time is finished do you recognize what I said about myself that perhaps stress is making you choose choose differently when it comes to the old nibble yes yes definitely I think stress for some people it makes them want to eat less and for other people it certainly makes them want to eat more and it can be those sweeter foods or more carbohydrate foods because they are satisfying and it's okay to therefore be eating some of those. But obviously, we want to be

mindful that we're not continually going back for snack after snack. And I don't want to give a sort of picture of our listeners as being terrifically happy with the state of affairs at the moment, because it isn't true. This is an email from a listener, I'll keep her anonymous. But she says, I've just slowly become rather low. I've got no motivational energy. I'm sleeping a lot. I think I'm actually suffering because I'm an extrovert. And my friends that aren't are enjoying self-isolation rather more than me. There is no doubt about it, Mary, and you acknowledge it yourself.

This is a tough time for many, isn't it? I think it's a very tough time, and particularly people who are alone or perhaps a single parent with several children in a confined space. It's a matter of planning the day, isn't it? And, you know, young children can draw, they can do jigsaw puzzles, but all the time, what's next? It must be very very very difficult indeed and i think getting to do cooking with with them is good and also giving them jobs like my daughter has three children

and they're all under 15 and they do breakfast lunch and supper in the evening they have to lay the table and um actually clear it away to put it in the dishwasher on their own. And so they take quite a pride of it. And the little girl went out and picked some primroses and put in the middle of the table. You know, it's giving them tasks to do and make them proud to do it. Yes, and anything that breaks the back of the day

and gets you through to tea time is a good way of proceeding, isn't it? You won't be surprised to hear that Ground Elder has kicked off the Radio 4 audience. And there's a variety of views. Hannah says you can eat it in salad as a bitter leaf or cooked like spinach if you can face picking enough of it. Rhi says... The power of women's articles. It's astonishing

possibly Rhi says it was introduced to these islands by monks who grew it in their monastery kitchen gardens from where it escaped to become the bane of some gardeners it has a faint but celery like flavour, eat raw or simmer slowly

you're right Mary, we have the best audience of all out there. I'm very, very impressed. Now, lockdown cake. You mentioned delighting small children. Here's a good way, if you've got the ingredients, make a cake, for heaven's sake, and you have a recipe for us for

a good old sponge. Yes, well, I mean, I would just make the basic Victoria victoria sandwich because you get a bit stressful when you've got to make a birthday cake and so if you do a recipe that you know um and i use a baking spread and i put everything in the bowl together in my mother's day, it would be the weight of the eggs in butter, sugar, and flour. And then you just beat it all together and put it in two tins. It'll cook better. Make sure you use the right size tin for the amount of mixture.

And then you can sandwich it together with what you've got. It could be buttercream or cream or just jam. And then make some icing, butter icing. If you've got no icing sugar, you could do it with caster sugar. And then a water icing on top, made with lemon juice and icing sugar. And the decoration, have you got some sparklers left, a few candles. If you haven't got anything to pipe it with, you can always decorate it with sweets,

little tiny sweets in the name of the person. It's the thought that counts. And if it's a young person having a birthday, do let them do it with you. Yeah, lovely. Thank you so much, Mary. That recipe is on the Woman's Hour website, by the way. Do you remember tasting my Victoria sponge some years ago, Mary? I do.

I do remember that when I had to bring one in and two other people had to bring them in and we all had them judged, which was quite terrifying. And I was very lucky. Mine won with a baking spread. Well, I'm not sure that it was quite as good as mine, actually. But OK, thank you very much. What's for lunch, Mary?

What's for lunch? I have put at half past seven in the morning, I put a rice pudding in, good old-fashioned rice pudding, because that's what my husband said he wanted, very, very slowly. I had the right pudding rice, but you could use a long grain rice if that's all you've got.

And then I'm going to do baked potatoes and salad. Not so exciting, but just what we want. Mary, lovely to talk to you. A very best of luck to you and to your husband and have a lovely day today enjoying some of that spring sunshine. That was Mary Berry and Priya Choo. Thank you very much for coming on as well.

Really interested in what Priya had to say about the difficulty of single parents going shopping at the moment and getting into the supermarket. Not easy. So we'd welcome your experiences of exactly that via the website bbc.co.uk slash woman's hour. The website will have that recipe for Mary's Victoria sponge. Now, we have discussed on the programme the fact that domestic abuse is likely to increase during the lockdown. Well, we know, in fact, that it has. Almost half of survivors of domestic abuse have had their post intercepted, opened or indeed hidden by a perpetrator of it. This is new research from Citizens Advice, and this can mean anything from a missed medical appointment to isolation from your friends and social networks,

and you might lose money as well because of, for example, credit taken out using your identity. So let's talk to Nicola Sharp-Jeffs, who's the Chief Executive of Surviving Economic Abuse. Anne, sorry, Opado, is Policy Manager at Citizens Advice. And Sharna has been through this herself. Sharna, just explain briefly, if you can, what happened to you? So, for me, I experienced abuse for like five years at the hands of my perpetrator.

He stole my post, went through my bank statements, found out where I was going, community groups that I was involved with and stopped that. Also, he stole my maternity notes. So when I did have appointments, etc, I missed them. I think he used it as a form of control. Obviously, at that time, when you go through domestic abuse, you're none the wiser. But, yeah, that's just a snippet of what happened to me. Well, no, I mean, that's a very, very good illustration. Go on. Yeah, so it was confusing at the time because you don't know what's happening to you but in hindsight this person has so much power over you and just by using your post it's so it's so important and that's overlooked most

of the time because you have so much so much power over one person even through bank statements when they intercept post for me personally I had a letter stop thing outside my letterbox so because he threatened to burn my house down so all my post came through an external box outside so it was easy even after the separation to access my post and it's it's scary that this person knows so much about you and information no it is absolutely against you of course and that's a brief yeah no that was that was very helpful um and were you concerned at the level of this and did you appreciate just how common it was absolutely i mean when we um decided to do this piece of research, we had a hunch that there could be an issue for survivors of domestic abuse and accessing their post, but we had no idea of the scale of the problem. As you mentioned in your introduction, half of survivors of domestic abuse have had their post intercepted in this way.

And the financial implications can be huge. I mean, kind of at top level, we found that over the last decade, survivors have lost 7.1 billion pounds as a result of the perpetrator using their name to take out credit. And also, as you say, people racking up huge amounts of debt because they simply aren't getting hold

of their bank statements. We saw one woman who had racked up a total of more than £18,000 worth of debt because she hadn't had access to statements and credit had been taken out in her name. It is. It's terrible, actually, when you hear about the extent of this. Nicola, a way out might be, I thought naively, get a PO box, but it's not that simple, is it? No, it's not that simple, sadly, Jane. And the report by Citizens Advice, the new research about this is really highlighting the extent of the issue. As Sharna rightly said, this is something that's really been overlooked, but we know it has a huge impact on survivors and that can be an economic impact as well. So the suggestion, recommendation of Citizens Advice to get some kind of address and collect

service, perhaps provided at a post office is a really good one. We've been working with banks and building societies that are surviving economic abuse to put up a similar situation or a situation that's similar to that in that posts can be picked up at a bank branch, for example, if someone suspects their post might be intercepted. How sympathetic is your post office likely to be? And doesn't it put you, you would then have to tell somebody you don't know all about this don't you it's not easy to do well i would imagine the way such a service would be set up would be for vulnerable people broadly so there wouldn't be um uh something that would say that you're a domestic abuse victim because you've gone into the post office um to pick up your post um it's something that i know citizens advice have also recommended for homeless people as well. And it really is very important, as Anne was saying, because we know it's disrupting access to income, for example.

Someone might miss some post about a job interview. They might miss an appointment date for their benefit appointment and not get any income in that way. As Anne said, they might not see utility bills or reminder letters, which would lead them into debt. But then again, as Shana also illustrated, you know, the abuser might also be using that information, you know, to exert control in lots of ways. So monitoring their movements, who they're seeing, withdrawing money from their account. Shana? When I moved into a refuge, they wanted important documents. And again, how do you access those documents if you've moved to a refuge? And when you do move to a refuge, again, the post, you need important information. So you contact your bank statement, your bank, you contact other organization to send you those important information and it's sent back to the old address. And again, you have no access to that.

And then that gives off your location. That's how my perpetrator is. It's after you flee domestic abuse, post is still an issue, not just during, it's after as well, what happens then. And my experience with Royal Mail was they weren't helpful at all. I mean, when you leave with nothing, you don't even have a penny to your name.

So how can you do every direction? Do you think institutions like the Royal Mail are really, I mean, I'm not necessarily being disrespectful to them because they've got plenty of other things to deal with. Are they simply naive in these circumstances, don't really understand what you're up against, Sharna? I think they need to do more absolutely um they didn't support me at all and i tried to explain my situation that i needed my post redirected however it's not an easy process and even talking about your personal situation it's tough when you're going through that.

I mean, I know a year on, it's easy for me to talk about situations of domestic abuse, but during that time, it's really difficult to repeat your story to so many organisations that are involved. I get that completely. And can I just ask you, it's something we have discussed to our credit on this programme

over the last couple of weeks, the theory, and I think it's more than a theory, that domestic violence is rather more likely at the moment because of the lockdown. Is it something you are concerned about? You've been through this, you know what it can be like. I think absolutely. Now that there's isolation, women don't even know if they can go out and get the help because I think police are running at a reduced service and when you're living with your abuser it's it's a horrible horrible dangerous situation if anything I mean I think after the lockdown there will be what we will do what will we what can we do next? Because I think it will increase even more.

We've already had 10 deaths, so it's scary. It certainly is. Thank you for making that point. That was Shana. You also heard from Anne Pardo, who's from Citizens Advice and from Dr Nicola Sharp-Jeffs, the Chief Executive of Surviving Economic Abuse. We did mention it on the programme last week.

There are links on the Woman's Hour website, I should say as well, but the emergency services have got a silent solution for those that need help over the phone. You dial 999. Then if you cough or tap the keys or press 55, it will divert you to the help you need. You don't have to speak.

That's important. You can dial 999-COFF, tap a key or press 55. Next week on the programme, I'm delighted to say the Booker Prize winning writer Bernadine Evaristo is on and she's going to be talking about

the joy of reading. So that's Bernadine Evaristo on Woman's Hour next week. You can perhaps get involved with your own favourite book, something you're turning to for solace over this difficult period. So she's on the programme next week. Looking forward to that. Now, another Woman's Hour coronavirus diary. This is 21-year-old Elizabeth who joins us now from Cornwall. Elizabeth, good morning to you. Good morning.

Now tell me, your story is a fascinating one. You were a young woman living your dream and then all this happened. So tell us first of all where you were when you became aware of the coronavirus. Well, when I first became aware of the coronavirus, again, it was just hearsay. We didn't really have internet connection so it was just hearing what people could sort of glean from family and friends when they did get online and we were in the middle of the pacific ocean sort of heading towards panama canal well what were you doing what were you doing well we were sipping corona beers i mean it really didn't seem

that important to us well what i really want to know is what were you doing on that cruise in the first place? Because you're not a passenger, are you? No. So I'm an entertainer. I'm a singer. And that's what I was doing on the cruise. And this was something that you had long dreamt of doing. So tell us about your show business dream. Well, since I was four years old, as cheesy as it is, I've always wanted to be a performer and singing is my main sort of attribute. It's what I love to do. And sort of working on the cruise ships is actually sort of my last shot at it. So I got the job and it seemed like a dream coming true. It really did. Well, you're back home now. And the last couple of days on the cruise, you described them to us brilliantly in your email.

It was all rather odd, wasn't it? Completely bizarre. Yes. I mean, it went from, you know, we were told to use PPE, use gloves and just spend as little time as possible. But, you know, it should be fine. To the next day when the captain informed everyone would have to disembark because all the ports were closed. Everything happened so quickly. And as soon as we got the passengers off, we had a few hours ourselves to pack and get home. And your passengers, I gather there were one or two that you felt really close to, because there are a lot of elderly and vulnerable folk on these cruises, aren't there?

Yes. I mean, it's terrible, but we all do have our favourites. And I got very close to a particular gentleman who had dementia. And his carer said to me that this would be their last holiday. So they'd been looking forward to it for a long time. So when I saw them disembarking, it did break my heart. You know, it's difficult. Yeah, it is difficult. And when you were performing on that cruise,

was there a particular performance you remember or a song that you'd sing that would go down really well? Well, I'm trained as an opera singer, but secretly I'm a jazz singer. I absolutely love jazz to the great dismay of my music teachers. So I used to do sort of a classic show, a classical show and then do a jazz show. And I once did my jazz show and finished with P.A. Yezu by Andrew Lloyd Webber yeah and it just went down amazingly I had three standing ovations it was just it was completely mental fantastic you see well that you will return to your showbiz dream but for now

you're back on the 300 acre dairy farm near Bude and how is it because it's a it's a tough old day for you isn't it i mean it is yeah it i've grown up with it so it's something that i'm used to but yeah it's been bizarre going from a world where my morning was talking to people and singing and rehearsing all day to back on the farm where i'm out on the land we're fencing and we're with the animals. It's just a complete new time. And your mum and dad, they are not frail, but they have had periods of ill health. So this is a responsibility for you, isn't it? You and your younger brother, this is going to be your farm? Is that the expectation?

It's not the expectation so much. It's, you know, it's part of our lives. And for my parents, you know, this is our home. My grandparents live with us as well. And my grandfather's 91. And, you know, we all live together. So if something should happen to them, or my parents, rather, I'm left with a farm that, you know the you can't just sell the farm you can't just walk away so I would be left with a farm two elderly grandparents and my brother and it's a bit daunting just the idea of having to deal with it and just the change in your life that the battle you had to get that job the fun you were doing it, and now you're back where you started.

And there'll be many people listening who think, who'll be thinking right now, I'd love to be on that dairy farm near Bude in Cornwall on a beautiful spring morning. But it's, what do you feel? Do you feel disenchantment or are you angry about what's happened or have you accepted it? I've definitely accepted it. It was, there was a week of uncertainty. I felt, I felt almost disappointed in myself, which it sounds ridiculous, but like I said, it's taken me so many years to get my confidence up to even audition and apply. You know, I've been rejected so many times and I finally got this, this last chance. And I thought, you know, if I don't get this, I'll just get a normal job like an accountant or something, something a bit more boring. But I got the job and, you know, it's tricky. It's a really tricky one, but I'm trying to stay

positive and just taking each day as it comes. Thank you so much, Elizabeth, and my very best to your parents, your brother and your grandparents as well on the farm near bude now linda laplante has got a new book out and she also has a new hero and he's a new man although buried is the first actually in a new series of books it does feature some characters she's written about before here she is talking about the new hero dc jack war i really didn't want to create a detective that had drink problems, marital problems, alcoholism, that he was drugs. I just wanted a fresh young guy and for us to see how he progresses in the Met.

And he has secrets that he didn't even know he had buried down inside him. The most important thing is that you really like this man and want him to succeed. Well, he's a very modern man with modern views about all sorts of things, women included. Yeah, very modern. Also, you know, nowadays, if you look at the police shows, they're actually not that modern. Whereas, you know, they've all got tablets that they're given, which are not frightfully good. So their access to their mobile phone is imperative and the Skyping that goes on. His phone is almost an extension of his left hand. What we need to bear in mind is when we watch police shows on the telly now, of course, you're right, the technological way that the police work now

doesn't actually make for great television. So some of that detail necessarily has to be missed out, doesn't it really? Yes, but in a way, I think as a writer of crime shows, it's imperative that you use the constrictions of how crime is investigated. If you find a body, it's like the police are really secondary. They don't touch. You wait for the scientists to move in. And so the different peripheral area as a writer, you have to find what's the exciting thing about that. How can you really get in tune with the reader to say,

stay with this? Because it does take maybe three weeks for toxicology report to come through. So you can't suddenly find a body and say, oh, heroin addict. You know, you have to wait for that. And what I've found so fascinating is over the years, I've become very close to all the scientists that I work with. They consistently give me new facts and new things to work on. Very exciting. So they trust you and they regard you as someone with integrity who'll tell the story right?

The trust is terribly important. I don't take dramatic licence. And everything I write goes before everybody in the met that is needed all the scientists so if I get a blood splattering expert he says no no no you can't have that we do it this way I will listen and incorporate it that's why I've just started a podcast using all the scientists they come up with such new scientific elements that are involved in crime. I keep on learning too.

What's it called? Listening to the dead. Cheerful, Linda. Right, I should have picked you up on this earlier, of course. We associate you with strong female characters and I wonder whether some people might be disappointed that the lead detective in Buried is a man. What do you say about that? Oh, I don't mind that at all, because in everything I've ever written, there's very strong men

as well. But in this one, I particularly chose to make a young guy the lead detective in it. But coming up close behind him is his wife, or his girlfriend, a very, very dedicated young doctor. And she's terribly important, and his respect for her is very important. I don't think it's necessary for me to consistently put to the forefront, you know, a strong leading woman. Widows, obviously, and the recent Steve McQueen film, it's brought you to a whole new generation of readers, hasn't it? What's that experience been like for you? First off, to be approached by Steve McQueen

and to hear him talk about the importance Widows was for him. It was an ITV series, wasn't it, back in the 80s? Yes, 83. It was terribly important and he wanted to upgrade it. It was very, very exciting and it came at a moment for me of great importance because I truthfully had had such an appalling time working on a series at ITV. And he really renewed my energy. But my publishers then said, well, if Widows comes out as a movie,

maybe you should think about reissuing the Widows novels. And I took another look at them and polished them up. And so it's generated a whole new readership, which is very, very exciting. And it's been translated into 30 different languages. You mentioned that you'd had a tough time working on a TV series. Which one was it that gave you grief? It was the young Jane Tennyson. Why was that tricky? It was, but you know what's good is that I came through it

because I did lose my confidence. See, that really disturbs me in a way, that somebody with your experience and your success can still get a knock when something doesn't quite go right. Because you're very solitary when you're up against a whole team of people and totally ignoring everything that you've ever lived by and worked by. It's very, very hard. So you question everything. And I questioned myself over and over again. And then in walks Steve McQueen. This is why I spend so much time now encouraging people. If you go through a bad patch, you have to come out the other side and be positive. And now I'm able to be incredibly positive about what happened. What did go wrong?

I had to walk away. The most difficult moment was the excitement of writing a new Jane Tennyson, a new young character, how she came to be that formidable DCI that we knew from Pround Suspect. So I took her right back to coming out of the Met training school and beginning work in uniform in Hackney. And so the excitement of kind of giving birth to that was totally dissipated when I was informed by somebody at ITUV that, oh, you don't own Jane Tennyson, we do. And if we wanted to do a series without you, we could. And now whenever I'm talking to young writers, I say, get a lawyer to look over your contract. Always double check everything. Don't give away everything. I gave away everything.

And so the only thing that I did have were the books. And to have them come back at such a pace and to be so well read and become so successful was really not just patting myself on the back. In a way, it made me very, very pleased that I'd stuck it out. And you go, well, you know, you're getting on a bit now, Linda. Do you really want to stick it out now? Yes, I do. I can't stop. Getting on a bit is a bit harsh. You're in your early 70s, is that right? I'm nudging over, over the early. But I am one of these people that, you know, you have to go into isolation. OK, well, yeah, that's how you could.

There's no getting away from it at the moment, is there? No. And people will know, I think, that you adopted a son, didn't you? Yes. And he is a teenage lad. Now, can I ask about that dynamic right now? How is that working out? It's, you know, quite hard to isolate him in the same house.

But he is so computer literate that he's becoming so helpful to me in my work because I am the most inept person on the computer. You know, and I had to call him down earlier to say, how do you transfer this file? And where do I put it? And he went, oh, for goodness sake, I've gone through this with you. You go to file, then you do insert. And I go, yes, I know. But then what? He is very computer literate. And that's about the best thing I can say. Well, I mean, speaking as someone who is currently cohabiting with a 20-year-old and a 17-year-old, this stuff is difficult, isn't it? I mean, let's be honest about it, whatever your family set up.

I know. And it's like, go to Dropbox. And I go, yes, well, has this file gone into Dropbox? And because I work on the computer for so many hours, it seems ridiculous that I'm also so inept. And then that panic, the panic. That was the writer Linda LaPlante, and the new book is called Buried. If you love Linda's stuff, and I know many of you do, you'll really enjoy D.C. Jack Wa War and what he gets up to in this book. A quick statement from ITV.

ITV and Linda took the decision for her to step back from the drama series Prime Suspect 1973 due to creative and editorial differences. Creative and editorial differences. We've had a few of those here. Right. Thanks to everybody who wanted to make a comment. Ground Elder. I do love doing this programme because of stuff like Ground Elder, which gets people going. This is from Angela. It was introduced by the Romans. Yes, I think another listener said that as a salad crop. Lots of recipes and information out there on the internet and many other edible weeds around as

well. In fact, the BBC has got a good recipe for nettle soup on BBC Good Food, but it's greatly improved by the use of yoghurt instead of cream and parmesan cheese, which I think masks the slightly earthy smell. By the way, says Linda, don't forget you can use stale hot cross buns in a wonderful bun and butter pudding. Bun and butter. I can't say that. Bun and butter pudding. It's very hard for a northerner to say that. Especially if you stick a load of rum in it, says Angela. Well, actually, she doesn't say a load of rum, to be fair. She says with the addition of rum.

That was me getting that wrong. We're just exaggerating. Leif says, I'm someone who's been known to eat an entire 200 gram bar of hazelnut milk chocolate in one go. Why would you pick hazelnut milk chocolate though, Leif? I mean, I'm all with you on the chocolate, but forget the nuts because they just, as far as I'm concerned, they just take the place of where chocolate should be in a bar of chocolate. Anyway, she says, my successful tactic is to nibble 25 grams of dark chocolate with the well-brewed slices of root ginger from my lemon and ginger tea.

It slows it all down and allows satisfaction to arrive without the must-have-more feeling. I think Leif's had a bit of time to think about that, hasn't she? Right, what else is out there? Shirley, a vegan here. We cannot source our usual dietary requirements for beans and pulses because other people have bought them all, hoarding for their cupboard. Meanwhile, there are just frozen soya products that can cause tummy ache when eaten too much. I understand Priya's point of view. Well, Shelley, I'm sort of with

you as well. I've got vegetarians and a vegan in my house and I have noticed I love those tins of mixed beans. They're really good. You can't get hold of those at the moment for love nor money. Patsy says, here's a tip for minimising waste. Instead of chucking away potato peelings, tops of leeks, bits of carrot or stalks of parsley, I'm keeping it and boiling it up to make stock for future use, i.e. in tomato sauce.

If you're worried about gas and electric use and you have a steamer, do it when you're steaming something and you save energy that way as well. Yes, that's true. Margaret says, I'm 81 today. Oh, Margaret, happy birthday. Probably not the best time to have a birthday,

so I hope you're able to celebrate. I remember so vividly the first birthday cake my mother made for me in 1942 when I was just three. She saved the one egg we had for a week and gave up sugar from then on to save enough to ice my little cake. But how did she decorate it? Well, my favourite colour was blue, so she mixed some ink into some of the icing paste and wrote my name on it. There wasn't enough for any more, but it was so beautiful to me. And we shared it with a one-legged thrush who came to our back door each day for some crumbs. Oh, Margaret, thank you for that. What an absolutely brilliant memory.

And again, very happy birthday to you. I hope you're able to celebrate. And what a fantastic, it's always stayed in your mind, hasn't it? And in your memory, that lovely event with you, your mum, your little cake and the one-legged thrush. Nettle soup is very good, says a listener. Well, I don't know. I'll take your word for it. I'll try in better times to make a nettle soup. And Marina says, it was just lovely listening to Mary Berry this morning

while simultaneously making her banana loaf. That has to rank as one of the best comfort moments of the lockdown. Delicious when you can get eggs and bananas, says Marina. Thank you and happy lockdown day to you. And my thanks to Caroline and to Caitlin and Jane and Donald today for keeping our show on the road. Woman's Hour is back tomorrow. Hi, I'm Catherine Bellhart. And I'm Sarah Keyworth.

We're comedians separately and a couple together, and we're the host of You'll Do, the podcast that gives you a little insight into perfectly imperfect love. Yeah, forget nights in with this one and hashtag couples goals. We want to know the whys and hows of sticking with the people we love and asking a few of the questions that are meant to help us develop intimacy. So why not give it a listen and subscribe to You'll Do on BBC Sounds. BBC Sounds. Music, radio, podcasts.

I'm Sarah Treleaven, and for over a year, I've been working on one of the most complex stories I've ever covered. There was somebody out there who was faking pregnancies. I started, like, warning everybody. Every doula that I know. It was fake. No pregnancy. And the deeper I dig, the more questions I unearth.

How long has she been doing this? What does she have to gain from this? From CBC and the BBC World Service, The Con, Caitlin's Baby. the more questions I unearth. How long has she been doing this? What does she have to gain from this? From CBC and the BBC World Service, The Con, Caitlin's Baby. It's a long story, settle in. Available now.