Woman's Hour - Netball World Cup

Episode Date: July 16, 2019

Live from Liverpool's M&S Bank Arena for the Netball World Cup, we're joined by BBC Sport's Hazel Irvine, former player Sara Bayman and Commonwealth gold winning England Netball captain Ama Agbeze to discuss the tournament so far, predictions for the rest of the week and prospects for the growing popularity of the game. We'll also be talking to CEO of Scotland Netball, Claire Nelson.What does it take to organize a World Cup? We’ll be talking to the Event Director, Lindsay Impett. We're also joined by volunteers at the event to tell us about what they love about the game and why they're getting involved.And we hear from under 11s in Hertfordshire learning netball on a Saturday morning - and Laura Vila and Corinne Askey who set up Mighty Netball to encourage girls to love playing sport.Presented by Jane Garvey Produced by Jane Thurlow

This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK. I'm Natalia Melman-Petrozzella, and from the BBC, this is Extreme Peak Danger. The most beautiful mountain in the world. If you die on the mountain, you stay on the mountain. This is the story of what happened when 11 climbers died on one of the world's deadliest mountains, K2, and of the risks we'll take to feel truly alive. If I tell all the details, you won't believe it anymore. Extreme. Peak danger.

Listen wherever you get your podcasts. BBC Sounds. Music, radio, podcasts. Hi, this is Jane Garvey and this is the Woman's Hour podcast from Tuesday 16th July 2019. And this morning's show, a bit different, we were live at the Netball World Cup at the M&S Bank Arena in Liverpool. It's day five of the tournament and in fact the final is on Sunday and just to make it absolutely clear there is coverage across the BBC including on BBC Two at most days. In fact

every day of the tournament there is coverage of the games on BBC Two with one of our guests this morning Hazel Irvine and that's where we started the conversation this morning in the company of Hazel Irvine and Sarah Bayman, a former England player. She played for England at the 2010 and 2014 Commonwealth Games. She is now the Super League Netball Coach of the Year and Director of Netball at the team Loughborough Lightning. First up, here's Hazel talking about the tournament. It's been hell for leather, Jane, since Friday, since we began. We've had the preliminaries. We began, we've had the preliminaries.

We're in stage two of the preliminaries. But fundamentally, we're now getting towards the knowledge of who's going to be in the semifinals on Saturday. And at the moment, it looks like the Southern Hemisphere teams of South Africa, Australia, New Zealand are heading towards those semifinals. Right. You know, barring the odd slip, potentially. And, of course, England too, because they had a massive game against Jamaica yesterday, which they won by eight goals. And it was thrilling indeed.

Sarah was with us on BBC Two. It was incredible. I think the atmosphere generally for every single game has been fantastic. But every time England walk onto that court, the noise is just deafening in this arena We should say Scotland are taking part as well as are Northern Ireland but every team

I think the Zimbabwe support has been phenomenal as well so I think the players have been taken aback by just how captured the public have been with this tournament so far. And of course you've got the players walking around this area of Liverpool and in the city centre as well and it gets people talking. Yeah, all the teams are staying

in the hotels nearby, they're all wandering around Liverpool in their spare time and it's nice that the fans are able to interact and see them and like you say, it gets people talking about the competition. And the structure of this competition means that you don't get knocked out early on, there's something to play for. Yeah, there's playoffs

for every place down to 16th so everyone has a full week's worth of competition and then the top four teams will go into the weekend as well now for anyone who played netball at school and thinks they know about netball or perhaps for some of our male listeners who know nothing about the game sell it to me and also can we just make clear right from the start, this is a standard way, way above anything any of us who played it at school know about. Well, I think netball's one of those sports that it's a completely different game at the elite level to grassroots.

And so if you've seen school netball and then you see the international level here, it's almost unrecognisable. It's so fast and so physical. So many goals are scored. And I think that's the that's the joy of it as a spectator that there's always something happening there's there's usually up to 120 goals scored per game so there's there's never a dull moment and just some of the collisions

yesterday in the England Jamaica game kind of really dispel that that myth of it being completely non-contact well I was going to ask you about that, Hazel, because I guess some cynics might say this is a game invented for women and girls that's basically non-contact basketball. Well, it may have been that initially, but it's very much not the case now. I think we have to, at the very least, regard it as semi-contact, because there's a lot that goes on,

there's a lot you don't see. I have to say the umpires are very, very sharp and do see a lot of it, but such is their stewardship of the game that there's a lot going on, but they do keep the umpires are very, very sharp and do see a lot of it but such is their stewardship of the game that there's a lot going on but they do keep the flow of the game so there is contact happening all the time but they're playing advantage a lot of the time so you're not getting that

many of us will remember from school, stop okay, take the penalty, stand beside her, off we go again, it moves constantly, it's very fast There's been a lot of rule changes probably in the last 10 years as well to help that flow of the game you know there's um people have recognized that that it needs to be spectator friendly that people don't want to stop start game and so the umpires have developed as well in terms of allowing it to flow and play an advantage and making it a more

watchable game actually the physicality thing generally speaking is going to have to be addressed i think sarah because we've had injuries already to Leila Gusk of England and even yesterday Lisa Alexander of Australia the Australian coach was talking about the fact that potentially the physicality of this game is not properly understood and maybe we're going to have to try and relax

the rules a little bit to allow substitutions to come in in these squads because it's terribly demanding on the knees, the hips you're stopping and starting again it's that huge huge impact on the body yeah because you were allowed to what is the pivot pivoting that's it yeah you're allowed to pivot just explain that pivoting rule perhaps sorry pivoting is a funny one because it's kind of gone out of the game but but basically with yeah but with the footwork rule, you're allowed to take one step and whatever foot you land on,

you can lift that foot up off the ground, but you can't reground it. So players can look like they're running with the ball if they take a step and then release the ball before they reground their first foot. And then pivoting is sort of an, I don't want to say old school. It's what we remember from school.

You just said it, old school. Put the knife through the heart. Old school and sort of what you learn when you're a child and the basic level of how you turn without moving your feet. Can I just open the door here? People at home can just get a measure of just how noisy it is here. So I'm just going to open the door. Live radio this.

You can hear the sound. There are a lot of young girls here, I should say. It is quite high-pitched. Yeah, there's a sort of, how can I, an oestrogen-based squeal of excitement. There we go. Just a goal there scored for Fiji, I think that was. And they're still beating Singapore by 53 goals to 40. It is heading towards the end of the summer term,

so there are loads of school trips here today, and I think there'll be many more later on. Just very briefly, seven aside, games go on for an hour with breaks, and only two positions are able to score, which is goal... Goal shooter and goal attack. Yeah, and who is your better scorer,

the attack or the shooter? Generally, the goal shooter will score more of the goals, but the best partnerships, the best shooting partnerships in the world tend to have a more even split than the lesser partnerships And actually we saw that at the Commonwealth Games last year Jane because we had Joe Harton and Helen Housby for England and they basically share the load a bit

although I have to say Joe's done a bit more this time but it was that sort of, they call it the H2 factor together and it sort of bamboozled the opposition this time. But it was that sort of, they call it the H2 factor together. And it sort of bamboozled the opposition. And in the end, it was probably key to England winning that gold medal last year, which, of course, caused the explosion and excitement about this game right around the world. Well, we are going to be talking later in the programme to somebody who was the captain of the England team, to Amma. And she is unfortunately injured, not able to take part in this tournament.

But that was one of my favourite sporting moments I absolutely loved the last couple of minutes of that Commonwealth, I mean you must have watched that Sarah been a bit jealous? Well I was commentating, you're commenting even worse well I was jealous in terms of them winning the gold but I was actually just so pleased that

the years of work that had gone into that finally came into fruition because for so long England played off with Jamaica for the third and fourth spot and to make that gold medal match and then win it on basically your first try was just phenomenal. Well, let's heap some pressure on Tracy Neville and the England team then because there are high expectations here. Hazel, what do you think? I think the way they've been going, the sheer physicality and the guts

and the determination shown by the side yesterday, which was an unchanged side throughout the whole match, Tracy kept the same seven on. I thought it was a really composed performance under severe pressure from Jamaica. And I think one of the key points here, Jane, is that so often we've turned up at Netball World Cup saying, which one of them, Australia or New Zealand, is going to win the World Cup? This time we've come here and we said, well, is it one of five this time? So who else is in the mix? Well, very much South Africa are the emerging team.

And of course, the last time in 1995, South Africa got to that final, very interestingly. And it looks like Jamaica are out of it. So it looks like between South Africa, England, New Zealand and Australia, and all of them you can make a case for at this point, I would say. And is home advantage, is it an advantage, Sarah, or is it just a hell heap of pressure the team don't need? I think it's definitely an advantage at the minute. As it gets to the pointy end of the tournament,

we'll see if we see cracks due to the pressure, that it will undoubtedly put on the girls. But I think it's that it will undoubtedly put on the girls but um i think it's just been so exciting for them and to receive the amount of support that they have done so far they look like they've been thriving off it yeah i hope people got there was another big cheer there the crowd the audience the crowd are absolutely loving it um i think this arena takes about 8 000 people the way it's set up now presumably i mean it's about a quarter full believe it or not judging by the noise it's set up now. Presumably, I mean, it's about a quarter full, believe it or not,

judging by the noise, it's only a quarter full. It will get much busier later on. Yeah, I think every England game from now on is sold out. So it will be very, very busy for those games, especially. And you were at the Netball World Cup. Remind me, when was it? 95 it was in Birmingham, yeah. And how was that compared to this?

Well, it was very well attended. I mean, it's going back a bit now, Jane, I must be honest. So I do remember it being very well attended. But I think you're getting slightly skewed perspective here because these teams playing just now are playing for the lesser places in the group that didn't quite get through to the main groups. But what you'll see is it will build throughout the day. And we've already had huge audiences.

And now that we're turning the court round in order to accommodate that 8,000 to 10,000, I think you'll see huge numbers of people coming here over the next few days. Netball is having a moment but women's sport is having a moment and actually do you think netball is in a good position to thrive bearing in mind that football is a game that is more widely understood you could argue as well, easier to play, and it's just there right at the forefront of the public consciousness in this country and always has been. It is, but I think you've got to remember, netball is the most played game in this country by women and girls.

Still? Still, yeah. I mean, it is an extraordinary thing. And it's still the same situation in Australia and New Zealand, so there's huge numbers of women and girls playing it. But I think also you talk about the consciousness of people towards this game. The England netballers won the moment of the year voted for by the public. You just talked about it yourself, Jane. And also the team of the year at Sports Personality of the Year last year.

So it did create a huge, huge breakthrough impact from the commonwealth games and i think it's so important now that tracy neville and the england team build on that and um i think it was actually um i think one of the england players i can't remember who said it said wouldn't it be just tops if they could take the netball world cup to sports personality this year and i got a bit of i have to say i got a little bit of a tingle when she said that I also think that it's it's a con like there's a lot of women and girls in this in the UK and it's not a conversation we have around male sport you know or can can rugby fit in when football is so popular and when cricket's so popular you're right yeah I shouldn't have no no but it's a conversation we have a lot and and that's I think it's just a kind of shift in our perspective of rather than trying to attract people away from football, why don't we just attract more people into sport generally?

I suppose I was just thinking we know that football is now over the most popular team sport for for girls that netball needs to do something to to make sure that it continues to be offered in the majority of schools and that outside of schools girls continue to go to clubs and and develop along the pathway yeah um well put thank you very much sarah and just hazel i mean this this is a performance this is all bells and whistles this tournament isn't it you are not going to be bored in this arena for very long. No, you're not, because there's halftime entertainment. There's even chat during the quarter time as well. It's all go.

For the first part of the tournament, we've had actually two courts in operation throughout. So even if you are here to watch England, there's always something happening on the other side. And I think that was something that the players actually had to get used to because there was quite a lot of distraction from the other court as well but just to follow up on Sarah's point I think it'll be lovely I know that we've grouped together a huge amount of elite women's sport this summer yeah change the game rightly which has been making a huge impact but I would love to get to a point where we talk about sport not just women's sport

because it is all sport. These are an aggregation of world-class events who just happen to be played by women. And I really think it's important that we try and up the level and we see it on the same level as the men's sport that we're used to watching all the time. You can contact us, of course, on social media. It's at BBC Women's Hour.

You can email the programme, as usual, via our website, bbc.co.uk slash women's hour. Sarah, this is going to break Hazel's heart. Sarah asks on Twitter, is the netball on the telly? Oh yes. Hazel, when are you on today? Well you mentioned Northern Ireland. We've got Northern Ireland against the Silver Ferns of New Zealand. It's the first time

at the World Cup they've faced one another for, wait for this, 20 years. And it's this afternoon. This afternoon at a quarter to three. We'll be there, Sarah and I, and also Amagwesi as well. Great. Well, I really hope that's a good game. Thank you very much.

Pleasure. Really appreciate you being here. That's Sarah and Hazel Irvine, of course, and coverage on the telly this afternoon, as Hazel's just pointed out. There's no excuse. You can see the wonderful game of netball on the box over the next week or so

with the final on the telly on Sunday. And fingers crossed that maybe England will be in that final. Now, no tournament like this can operate these days without volunteers. And we've got three brilliant volunteers with us this morning. Caswell Palmer. Good morning to you, Caswell. Morning. And Caswell plays the game as well. And mother and daughter duo, Mandy and Hannah Cripps.

Welcome to you both. Thank you very much. it is it are you spending the whole week with your mom Hannah no we're not actually we're in different areas but we get to spend our evenings together which is quite nice very nice now Caswell I was surprised to learn that you do play the game. How did you get into netball? Actually, my sisters play netball, so I used to just tag along with them to watch the game. And it just looks quite interesting. And it kind of reminds me of basketball when I first saw it. And I thought, oh, yeah, it's quite easy because I played basketball.

Well, it certainly wasn't um what did you what were the differences I think it was me getting my head around the fact that you can't run with the ball and you can only have the ball for three seconds before you have to give it to someone else and you can't bounce it continuously and it was just like a plethora of different um rules in comparison to basketball. So it kind of threw me a bit when I tried and my footwork was quite terrible. Was it? OK. Well, as our token male guest, Kaswell, you can make the point that in fact this is not a soft game. Absolutely not. Well, I mean, I've been involved in it for nearly 20 years now and the way the game has moved on

I mean 10 years ago in comparison to the day I mean the athletes are just absolutely phenomenal they're a lot fitter stronger a hell of a lot more aggressive and you would want to think that oh it's a female sport so they're quite soft and nice and stuff but not judging by what I've seen out there this morning not at all and um and it's a testament to the girls because um are the ladies rather um they've put in so much effort and it netball is basically becoming a lot more professional so I mean in Australia and New Zealand you have got a professional league and in England you've got the semi-professional, and also in South Africa. So it's actually moving ahead.

So there's a lot of additional things. I mean, the nutrition that you have to think about, the intense training, and loads of professionals have been brought in. So it's moved, I mean, five stories up, actually. Yeah, just in the time that you've been around. Just looking at the score it's Fiji 67 and Singapore 49. I've got to admit when I first started watching this match

which started just after 9 o'clock this morning I thought that Fiji would win it easily but Singapore have really stuck around is that something that you've noticed Hannah watching the games that actually the standard is really high? Oh, incredibly high. I think, like at this level, it's got to be.

In some of the games, you've had quite a big difference in the scores, whereas actually, like a score in netball, if you've got just a few points in it, there's so much effort that goes into those last few moments. Yeah, I mean, they are gutsy performers. And as Caswell points out, this is not a business they take lightly. Nutrition is obviously everything. Fitness would be everything for them as well.

Just from your point of view, Mandy, I apologise, you played at school, did you? I did, yes, yes. Like me, I guess you don't recognise this as the game you played at school. It's somewhat a different game, yes. I mean, the speed is just phenomenal and the girls are such elite athletes. But I do think it can be played at many different levels. I'm slightly inspired to go back. You know, there's even walking netball now. Yes. And I think probably it might be something I pick up when I go back home.

Now, you sound slightly hesitant, if I can put it that way, Mandy. I think I'd want to go along and make sure that I'm not letting myself down at sort of 50. Take a couple of mates with you. I think that's probably a good idea, and I'm sure there are people of my age who are getting back into fitness, and I think could be easily tempted to get back into playing something like netball, you know, at a different level than we're seeing here. And as for the volunteering, honestly, what do you get out of it? Because I bet that this is hard work. I mean, your daughter said slightly dismissively you were in a back office role. What does that mean?

Well, at the moment, I'm looking after the sort of VIP and hospitality suites, which I thought would be very exotic. Actually, it's just sort of pointing many people in different directions just making sure that people are happy but it's just about being engaged you get a lot of feedback from people um having a real buzz about being um seeing the sorts of sports that they're seeing at the sort of level that they're doing it and i think you you're meeting lots and lots of different people just in terms of the pivoteers which is what the volunteers are called here as well as being out in liverpool and seeing the buzz that's in the city is just really really rewarding and you're

picking up on that energy every way you go absolutely yeah yeah oh people because do people know your volunteers yeah yeah we've it's pretty obvious we've got a lovely top and and trousers and we've got pivot here written in big letters do people treat you with respect i suppose is what i'm asking um yeah yeah you know it's a it's a nice audience it's uh it's quality people i should say yes no you get all sorts but um on the whole they, they're here to have a good time. And that sort of that emotion spreads across the across the whole arena. I don't know. Were you old enough actually to be inspired by the volunteers at London 2012, Hannah? Definitely. I think this is part of it where it started.

I remember going into the 2012 Olympics and there were these people on almost the lifeguard chairs telling jokes. And my dad still remembers some of the jokes that they said. And it was just the atmosphere that they created and that they were really part of it. They were called the game makers. And that was almost something that, I mean, it's definitely kept in my mind since the games. And do you think the athletes taking part appreciate your presence and the efforts you're making to be here? Yeah, i think so one of them got a hug off tracy neville yesterday i've heard oh there you go well tracy's i'm sure

she's the person to know certainly in terms of england netball caswell what do you think about that do you feel appreciated i do actually and um and well i work in the the training venue so i basically come in contact with all the teams and they're really appreciative and stuff and always saying thank you and stuff and they're more completely open to taking pictures with us and let us feel like we're actually a part of it rather than just on the side volunteer and they're very approachable and stuff so I think they really really appreciate the work that we we've done for them because we just makes life easier for them and they can just continue and just get on with their job which is

to play netball so you help i mean the women are out there training at what time in the morning are they training or is it late at night they train um as early as nine in the morning and as late as six okay so they they keep at it throughout the day. Yeah, they do. And in terms of nutrition, what are they taking on board before they play? Well, they have to have a lot of fluids and obviously they've had the protein powder afterwards.

Let me just open the door again. It's the end of the game and it's Fiji have won 71-56 well done Fiji sorry Caswell I think the nutritionists

ensure that the girls are taking in enough fluid because obviously they play such a rigorous sport and even though it's a training session or if it's a match the the intensity is really, really high. So they have to ensure that they put in a lot of fluids and then after the match, then they have their shakes with protein to replenish their muscles. Does everybody have an individual protein shake?

I think it's... I'm not sure if they have an individual. Could you just liquidise a load of chocolate cake and a couple of flat whites and give it to me? No, I think they're a lot more professional than that and they know exactly what their body needs to ensure that they do an effective job

and also they've got the right people around them also to ensure that they're on the right path Yeah, okay, thank you very much Caswell, thank you for your patience with my idiotic question as well, and Hannah, has this inspired you? Oh, definitely. I think just being like you here, the audience out there, just being part of the buzz, like the amount of kids that come in.

What it's like when England or Scotland play, Lord knows. Yesterday was a nail-biting one, and just seeing the kids come in and just so excited about the game, it's just really lovely to hear. And, I mean, I play netball but i mean i don't know i've picked up some pointers now you'll be pivoting in a rather more stylish way my footwork will be will be on point i think my coach will be happy to hear i'm glad what position do you play at i'm goalkeeper are you okay and happy to stay there oh yes definitely i like everything to happen in a very confined area i'm not going to to run too far. Right. Good point. Thank you very much.

A great place to end, actually. Thank you very much, Mandy and Hannah and Caswell. Thank you. It's so fantastic. Where would we be in this country without people like Caswell and Hannah and Mandy? You are willing to do things for nothing, frankly, and keep things going for other people's enjoyment. So thank you all very much for being part of this.

It's fantastic. Well, good morning to you. We are live on Women's Hour on Radio 4 this morning at the netball world cup in liverpool now it's already been mentioned i think hazel irwin's the person to remind us that netball is in fact britain's number one female participation sport it's thought about one and a half million women and girls play it at some point in a typical season so among those trying to get girls playing the game at the earliest opportunity, without relying on school PE lessons, is the organisation Mighty Netball. Now it provides after school and weekend classes for girls between the ages of 4 and 11 and

boys as well in Hertfordshire. At which point we were hoping to hear a feature. Here we go. My name's Kate. I'm here with my daughter Ella, who's seven. Our house is quite football orientated, so we were looking for something that my daughter could enjoy. And I've always loved netball, so it just seemed like the right choice. It gets us out and about really early on a Saturday morning which is lovely especially on a day like this. It's giving her a bit more activity than she'd have normally and a bit of kind of learning a different skill

and some teamwork she's mixing with children that she doesn't go to school with so that's building a little bit of confidence. I'm Corinne Askey and I founded Mighty Netball with Laura two years ago because I was inspired by my daughter at the time who was interested in sport but not so interested in rugby and football and so I was trying to find something for her to do. I remember her clearly, loudly, telling me that she was a girl and so she wasn't going to play football. I love sport and I've played sport my whole life and I've played rugby and football at Intermural University

and so I tried to encourage her to say, football is for you and it's amazing what the Lionesses are doing at the moment. Women's football is amazing and really growing, which is such a positive thing. I tried to tell my four-year-old this and show her videos on YouTube of the Lionesses playing. And she just shook her head and said, I'm a girl. And I wasn't able to communicate that you can do football and be a girl. So she shook her head at football.

She shook her head at rugby. And then I just said, well, do you want to play netball? And she nodded and looked very happy. And actually a lot of the content that we have is very similar to the content that you have in early stage fundamental sports classes, so rugby and football and netball. It's all a lot of hand-eye coordination, gross motor skills. So actually, don't tell anyone,

but the only difference is that we're wrapping it up as netball and they're learning those skills as they get later on at four. It's just let's go out and run around and play sports. So by positioning it as something that she wanted to do, we could really encourage her and hundreds of other children, hopefully thousands of other children, to be active in an environment they believe is for them. Are we ready? Toes behind the lines. I'm Kasia Fossers and this is Helena, my daughter.

We have tried different sports for Helena, and this is the one which she enjoyed the most. It's really fun, and we're doing it outside. Do you have a favourite position? Centre. Because you can go everywhere and set the day. I'm Susie, and I've brought my daughter Annabelle she's seven so she's in year two. I played it when I was at primary school and at high school and I loved it so I thought it was a great sport to be outside and moving around in the winter and

the summer. And what do you think it's given's given Annabelle apart from exercise and fresh air it's working as a team learning how to pass and the concept of having to stand still not move around looking around see where teammates are it's just loads of things it's brilliant I'm Laura I'm one of the co-founders at Mighty Netball and I run it alongside Corin. I think team sport, without even trying, teaches so many skills and we've looked at what those are, which is more confidence, self-belief, willingness to give things a go, I think have that support around you from teammates, it's not all on you. And so we've highlighted those things and tried to emphasise those within our session plans.

And the way we teach our coaches to speak to the girls is all about reinforcing hard work and effort and the right attitude and kindness and sportsmanship. And, you know, in our matches, we don't really keep score. We don't really care who the winner is within these sessions. It's not what matters at this age. Me and Corin are both competitive people, but I think under the age of 11 it doesn't matter we want the girls to just fall in love with sport so having some sort of mini success every week really consolidates that for them and they can move on through secondary school which is where little girls step away from

sport because they don't feel like they are sporty girls they if they don't identify in that way from a young age, they stop. So that's what we're trying to change by starting them younger. Boys are absolutely welcome. We have chosen not to be a part of that discrimination where it's just a solo sport. We do have boys that come, I think, across the weekend venues, certainly got more in the younger age groups.

We have got a couple in the older age groups, sort of the year five, six, so they absolutely love it. we've got quite a few more boys in our after-school clubs um and the children just don't notice made me laugh yesterday she has a session where there was one boy in the group and one of the girls was trying to point out to me who it was and she didn't say him the boy she said oh the one in the yellow t-shirt, so they really don't notice. You know, it doesn't matter to them, which is lovely. I'm Holly and I'm ten. I started coming to netball about a year ago. I'd heard loads of people talking about it

and I decided to try it out and it's just amazing. It's very interactive and fun. You get to do a lot of match play and meet new people and make lots of new friends. One of the training bits we do, kind of an obstacle course, and you have to go round and try and get a foot in a box. But people are trying to tag you whilst your foot is in the box, so you've got to be really quick. It helps you quite a lot with your foot is in the box so you've got to be really quick it helps you quite a lot

with your footwork. I'm Jenny I live in Berkhamstead and I'm Emma's mum. Emma used to do swimming in the morning and that kind of stopped but what was noticeable to me is Emma needed to build her confidence playing with different people getting exercise but it was really about a confidence building thing for me as a mum. I played throughout all my secondary education I was vice captain of my first team in sixth form very proud of that but yeah so I'm just kind of a passionate ex-netballer building thing for me as a mum. I played throughout all my secondary education, was vice captain of my first team in sixth form, very proud of that but yeah so I'm just kind of a passionate ex-netballer so I wanted to get Emma involved in that. And Emma what do you think you enjoy about netball? I like shooting, to play with my friends and score some goals.

We did sit and analyse why we enjoyed netball and what was good about it and who were good positive role models and we really saw that netball had this opportunity to inspire a lot of young people and with such amazing role models in the Roses team you've got incredible athletes but incredible women as well you've got doctors and physios and people carrying out full-time jobs and full-time athletic careers so that was a really really positive kind of environment that was already there and so we wanted to tap into that

and just provide an opportunity for girls to play a sport they really believed was for them. We're open to boys and girls we want everyone to play netball at grassroots boys and girls and everyone but we really want to inspire girls to play a sport that's competitive, where you're practising being assertive, where you need to be in conflict situations and find a resolution. And those are skills that really resonate well in the rest of your life and in your career, and it's helped me a lot in my career. So there was so much potential to do something with it. Fantastic. The reporter there was Jane Thurlow.

That was Corinne Askey from Mighty Netball in Hertfordshire. Fantastic. The reporter there was Jane Thurlow. That was Corinne Askey from mighty netball in Hertfordshire. That sounds like a really good idea, doesn't it? And so much enthusiasm generated by everybody taking part in that. So welcome back to the arena in Liverpool, where we're just waiting for the next game, which is Sri Lanka against Samoa, which starts at 11 o'clock this morning. With me now, we have got Claire Nelson, who is the CEO of Netball Scotland.

Welcome, Claire. Thank you. Amma Abweza is here. She captained the England side that won gold at the Commonwealth Games last year and provided us with one of the seminal sporting moments of all our lives. That was when you all just piled on top of each other

at the end of that match. Were you at the bottom or in the middle of the pile or where? No, smartly at the top. Clever girl, yes. I think that probably would have been the end of that match. Were you at the bottom or in the middle of the pile or where? No, smartly at the top. Clever girl, yes. I think that probably would have been the safest place to be. Were people injured in that pile on? I don't think they cared. No, I suppose by then.

I mean, can you begin to sum up what that felt like? I still, I don't think I've comprehended it myself. I think I've talked about it for years and years. When I first got my first England cap, England were talking about winning a world tournament and it was over 20 years ago. And even going into the tournament, we were like, oh, we're going to win.

But I think it's one thing saying you're going to win and then when it actually happens, it's just unbelievable. Well, also, you nearly didn't win. I know it doesn't matter now. It's like New Zealand nearly won the men's cricket world cup. But yeah, that was heart-stopping entertainment.

My husband's from New Zealand, so there's been family wars over cricket. A difficult weekend, no doubt. Yeah. But you came so close to not winning. Yeah, and even the semi-final, we played Jamaica the day before and we won by one in the last second. And so we nearly didn't even make it to the gold medal match. And then we nearly didn't win the gold medal match.

We only won by one. So everybody's like, oh my gosh, you were amazing. And I'm like, didn't win the gold medal match we only won by one so everybody's like oh my gosh you were amazing and I'm like yeah we were amazing but we only just won and I guess the record books will say that we won but yeah and that's all they'll say yeah if you were there or you're watching it on telly you will never forget that

so what is it like for you to be here now and unfortunately you're injured and you're not taking part yeah I'm not actually injured anymore so I could be taking part but it's really it's quite difficult I think when I watched the girls come out for that first game it was really tough for me um and then when the anthem played i shed a bit of a tear um just because i wasn't part of it but um the girls are doing really well i've been in touch with them and yesterday they

played jamaica and were just so confident and dominant so it's nice to see i think if you're not going to be part of it, you want them to do really well. And they're doing just that. Yeah, it's quite complicated psychology though, this, isn't it? I know it's like injured players all the time have to support the team, but there's got to be an element of thinking,

I mean, isn't there, honestly? No, yeah, honestly, there's times where I think one of the Australians didn't get to play in the Commonwealth Games last year. And she said that she was sitting at home and she did kind of want the team to win, but she didn't. And so when they didn't get a medal, she was kind of like, oh, OK, you didn't pick me. And there is a kind of, it is like bittersweet. That's very honest of you.

And my heart is like back in England. And because I know the girls as well, I kind of want them to win. I know how much work we've put in and I was part of that and so I really do want England to win and I think netball in England needs England to win and so there's so many things around outside of what I think and so it's it's about it's not just about me it's about much more than me so actually I'm really backing England well you're in many ways in every way a bigger woman than me, it has to be said. So, Claire, Scotland. I mean, obviously, Scotland is a smaller nation with fewer possible brilliant players. Is it a pain in the neck that England are, I mean, be honest, as Amma has been,

is it a pain in the neck that England are one of the favourites here? Absolutely not. Absolutely not. I want England to win as well. Do you really? 100%. Because, actually, England winning their Commonwealth gold strengthened our sport in the UK, and that's reality. You know, when you speak to the other Home Nation chief execs from Wales and Northern Ireland,

we are trying to grow our sport. We need more funding. We need a bigger platform. We need more coverage. And as Amma just said, it has taken 20 years for England to get there. I have a board director who was part of working with England Netball when they first put that vision together. They thought it would take 10 years. It's taken 20 to get to this point. So we need England to be successful. We will ride on those coattails because it's great for the

coverage of our sport across the UK. It's inspiring for our young players and it strengthens us. And, you know, I'm the chief exec of Scotland. You can hear by my accent, I grew up in the English netball system. We are competitive on the court when we face each other. But off it, we have to be stronger together because otherwise netball will suffer. There are cash rich sports out there that have female versions of the sport that could come in and quite easily squash what we're doing. So we have to support one another and I really hope to see England in that final.

Well, we were talking earlier about how women's football is obviously very much on the rise and potentially, let's be realistic, could well threaten young women, young girls taking up netball. There's just no doubt about that, is there? I've talked about this for a long time. I think what I feel relatively comfortable with at the moment is that men's football and those big clubs haven't quite figured out how powerful women's sport really should be and they're still seeing it as a little bit of an add-on in certain places. I've had some very interesting conversations

with some chief execs of professional football teams who still aren't quite giving women's sport the position, I think they figure out that actually women are the most powerful consumers, they are the most powerful decision makers, we make up 50% of the population and they tap into that, then the potential is that netball could fall behind. But at the moment, with a domestic World Cup here, following a Women's Football World Cup,

then actually I think netball's in a great position to lead the way at the moment. Well, let's bring in Lindsay, who's in charge of the whole thing, event director of the netball World Cup. First of all, congratulations, because if the energy here this morning is anything to go by, this has been a storming success. So far, so good. This is actually our quietest session this morning, Tuesday morning.

We've had a fantastic weekend of Friday with the opening matches, the opening ceremony that took place on Friday afternoon, and then just some amazing competition over the weekend. Zimbabwe has grabbed the hearts of everybody with their singing and their dancing and that's really helped lift the atmosphere. But we wanted people to come here and enjoy the sport but also enjoy the entire experience of being at the Netball World Cup. You know we've got entertainment, we've got things that are happening outside. It's a real family day out and everyone

can come along and just have a really great time. But the energy levels in the arena since I've been here, they just haven't dropped. So even if there's no netball, there's something going on. You've got big screens, you've got the noise, everybody's involved and excited. This was all obviously all planned out years ago? I wouldn't say years ago. I think I've been working on it for four years,

so I was the first person involved in the Netball World Cup 2019 limited the company that is behind this it's a subsidiary company of England Netball and my team have been on board from about two years ago so we've been building out for the last couple of years but most of the the finessing has been done in the last six months and we we had two courts next to each other as of yesterday and had a 12-hour turnaround overnight to get it to the single court today and the atmosphere yesterday with two courts next to each other was fantastic and we were a bit concerned so two games are going on at the same time absolutely 25 minutes stagger between the start of the first game and then the start of the second

game so that the quarterfinals sorry the half time and quarter time sort of sat at the same time and we could do activations. And we were concerned about the distractions on one court and the impact it had on another. But the atmosphere of having so much netball so close has just worked really, really well. And we were concerned by turning it to a single court where there's a bit more space around the court that that might impact the atmosphere.

But I've come in this morning and I'm absolutely blown away by it's fantastic we do have some school school children in this morning you certainly do quite noisy yeah but that's great and it's the heading towards the end of term isn't it even the teachers most of them are in a good mood um you could you could sense that outside that they can you know they can feel the end of term coming definitely um and what better place to come actually than this today and just sharing the excitement. Yeah, 100%. So, Amma, do you think England are going to get to the final? Because it's not a given, is it?

No, it's not. And this is the first time ever that the top of all netball's been shaken up. So there's a lot of teams. So South Africa have beaten Jamaica. Jamaica currently world number two, South Africa world number five. So it's on. And I think England's performance yesterday against Jamaica was the best that I've seen them play in a while. Jamaica currently world number two, South Africa world number five. So it's on. And I think England's performance yesterday against Jamaica was the best that I've seen them play in a while.

And so I'm thinking England will get to the final. And I don't care who they're playing. I'm hoping that they're going to win. Claire? Yeah, I think Australia are definitely looking the strongest, if I'm going to be honest. But I think, you know, that England team is superb. They're on home territory. But as Amir said, you know that England team is superb um they're on on home

territory but as Amir said you know in fact the top eight I would not rule out Uganda in in any games coming through you know you look at what I think Thursday is going to be the best day of netball that we've had and there's some real crunch matches in there there's some must wins we have to beat Trinidad and Tobago which probably, before they played Malawi yesterday and only lost by three, I was feeling far more comfortable than I am now. So every single game is going to be a crunch one and that's great for World Netball but for all of us chief execs

supporting our teams, it's going to be a nerve-wracking race to the final. Well, I really have enjoyed being here this morning. There's a real buzz about the place and I'm such an energy and enthusiasm and it's a testament to you, Lindsay, and all your hard work. Thank you. And, Amma, great to meet you.

I hope you enjoy the final, whoever's in it and whoever wins. And, Claire, good to meet you as well. Thank you. That's how the live show ended this morning with Amma Amweza and Lindsay Input and Claire Nelson. Everybody getting on very well, actually,

at the tournament. I think, basically, the winner is netball and women's sport generally. That's what you get. That's what you sense from the atmosphere here in Liverpool at the tournament. So to your thoughts on what we broadcast this morning, Sorrel was happy. Quite simply, she says,

Women's hour and netball, pure joy when two of my favourite things collide. There we are. Isn't it wonderful to have at least one satisfied customer? And Sheila was happy too. Sheila says, I'm loving the live show from Liverpool today. I'm 77, still reasonably fit, and I'm able to get around, albeit with care. I would love someone to organise netball for us real oldies. And Sheila says that she lives in Billinge, which is on Merseyside.

So if anyone listening in the Merseyside so if anyone listening in the Merseyside area would like to organise I suppose it would be walking netball or I don't know but Sheila's keen and I bet she isn't the only person who is enthused by what she heard this morning and would like to do something. On the other hand Delia isn't happy and I'm going to read out her email. Delia says, For goodness sake and for the sake of my sanity, please stop this constant coverage of sport. It's all that seems to be on Woman's Hour and I'm sick of it. So many of your regular listeners, myself included, have little or no interest in any kind of sport.

And I used to think of Woman's Hour as an oasis away from the current obsession with it. My listeners, myself included, have little or no interest in any kind of sport. And I used to think of Women's Hour as an oasis away from the current obsession with it. But now, just about every day, that's all you're talking about. I'm seriously considering abandoning the good ship Women's Hour for good. And for good measure, Delia adds the hashtag, I hate sport. Right, Delia. Well, can I just point you in the direction of yesterday's programme, for example, which was about maternal mortality and actually the appalling link to women of colour in Britain in 2019. Nothing to do with sport.

Jenny's guests on the programme later in the week include Dame Sally Davis, who is about to stop being the Chief Medical Officer for England. And next week on the programme, it's Takeover Week with a range of guest editors. And certainly based on what I know about the programmes I'm involved in, I don't think you'll be troubled by sport next week, Delia. But you know, many people love the programme today, love netball, and just love sport. So there we are. This is from Joan. I'm listening to you talk about netball and it's bringing back memories from my school days. I was in the team in junior school and I loved it. When I got to secondary school, I didn't go in for the trials

for the team because I was scared about starting my period and wearing sanitary towels. Maybe it would fall out as I ran around, i just didn't know what a shame that those worries stopped me from playing maybe this is why a lot of girls refrain from doing sport we should talk to girls about their fears and their worries in connection with sport um joan i think that's a really good point and i imagine that your fears were shared by many people. I guess it's easier now. The towels are more, they're very super sticky, aren't they? And they stay on. And of course, tampons are an option as well for not everybody, but for many people playing sport. But, you know, you're right. I guess that would worry a lot of young girls around the time that you were playing. From Andy, my daughter played school, college and county netball

up to age 18 and she was in the England training pathway. After playing the game, she came home covered in more bruises than my son, who played rugby, ever did. Netball is a rough, tough, aggressive game and don't get me started on the language says andy um thank you for that and from claire after watching england play jamaica yesterday i was so inspired at the age of 53 i've just contacted my local netball club for details of how to join and that strikes me as a brilliant place to end the program that That was a cracking match. England were so good.

So were Jamaica, of course. There is a sense. You see, my problem is I got a World Cup tingle about England in the women's football. I'm beginning to think I might be getting a tingle for this netball World Cup. And my tingles have been very unreliable. So I think we're going to be tingle free at the end of the podcast today. But the best of luck to England and indeed to Northern Ireland and Scotland in their remaining fixtures over the end of the podcast today but the best of luck to england and indeed to northern ireland and scotland in their remaining fixtures over the course of this week full

coverage across the bbc and thanks to everybody who is so helpful at the m&s bank arena here in liverpool today hello sorry to interrupt your content consumption, but can I quickly suggest a podcast you might like? It's called Grown-Up Land. Every week, comedian Heidi Regan, podcaster Ned Sedgwick, if that is even a job, Syrian dreamboat Steve Alley, and me, comedian Sophie Duker, are joined by a brilliant guest to discuss the bewildering pursuit of adulthood. We talk sex, jobs, rejection, jealousy, sex,

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