Woman's Hour - Nurses on strike, comedian Cally Beaton, teacher Andria Zafirakou, root smudging

Episode Date: December 20, 2022

Two nurses, Heather who is a Specialist Community Nurse for a London NHS Trust and Mary, who works as an A&E nurse in Leeds, explain why they are joining the picket line today. Cally Beaton had a high-flying career as a TV executive. But she swapped the boardroom for the comedy club after receiving career advice from none other than Joan Rivers. Cally joins Jessica Creighton to describe how she has now achieved her comedy goal by making her debut appearance on the Christmas Special of Live at The Apollo’ at the age of 53. Breaking up for the Christmas holidays is exciting for a lot of children but for some it means a stop to one guaranteed warm meal a day in a heated place. We’re joined by teacher Andria Zafirakou, who’s seeing children come to school hungry and unwashed. Lockdown caused a lot of us to change our habits permanently including when it comes to our hair. Lots of people let their natural grey take over – and now there’s even a trend emerging where people are purposefully showing their roots. Hairdresser Sofia Sjoo joins Jess. For those who are grieving the loss of a loved one - Christmas time can be a very difficult period – even more so when it’s the first Christmas without them. One listener got in contact us with to suggest that we feature an item at this time on how to talk to parents whose child or children have died. Ruth’s son Fergus was just twelve years old when he died of cancer in May this year. She joins me now. Presenter: Jessica Creighton Producer: Lucinda Montefiore

This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK. I'm Natalia Melman-Petrozzella, and from the BBC, this is Extreme Peak Danger. The most beautiful mountain in the world. If you die on the mountain, you stay on the mountain. This is the story of what happened when 11 climbers died on one of the world's deadliest mountains, K2, and of the risks we'll take to feel truly alive. If I tell all the details, you won't believe it anymore. Extreme. Peak danger. Listen wherever you get your podcasts.

BBC Sounds. Music, radio, podcasts. Hello, I'm Jessica Crichton. Welcome to the Woman's Hour podcast. Hello, welcome to the programme. Great to have your company this morning. Now, as you'll be aware, nurses are striking again today for only the second time in their history. Shortly, I'll be joined by two nurses who will give us an insight into what it's like being a nurse in 2022, the demands, the issues, the failings, and whether strike action could actually bring about change. Also, the increasing number of women who have changed their hair as a result of the lockdowns. For example, many were unable to get their hair curled, cut, dyed as they usually would.

I'll be talking to a hairstylist who explains a new trend of women who are happily showing their undyed roots. It's known as root smudging. Maybe you've heard of it. Maybe you do it yourself. Let me know. Or maybe there is another way you've adapted how you look as a result of the lockdowns or because you're trying to save money at the moment,

doing your own manicures perhaps. Has it gone well? It hasn't for me. I'll be honest. Text me on 84844. Text will be charged at your standard message rate. On social media, we're at BBC Women's Hour. You can email us as well through our website

and you can send us a WhatsApp message or even a voice note now using the number 03700100444. Data charges may apply depending on your provider. So use Wi-Fi again if you can that number is 03700 100 triple four also this morning dealing with grief can be particularly difficult around this time of year one of our listeners got in touch because she wants people to be better able to talk to parents whose child has died ruth will join me later after talking about her experience after her son died of cancer earlier this year. All of that to come but first on Women's Hour this morning

thousands of nurses are on strike for the second time today having also walked out last Thursday. The action involves about a quarter of hospitals and community teams in England, all health boards in Northern Ireland and all but one in Wales. Turnouts in the Royal College of Nursing ballot was too low in nearly half of NHST trusts in England for strikes to go ahead. Strike Action Scotland has been called off while a pay offer is considered. The Royal College of Nursing, the RCN, wants a 19% pay rise and says below inflation increases are compromising care

by making it hard to attract and retain nurses. But the RCN and the government remain at loggerheads. Last week, we spoke with the General Secretary and Chief Executive of the Royal College of Nursing, Pat Cullen, about these historic nurses strikes. And also Helen Whatley, Minister in the Department for Health and Social Care. You can catch up on both of those interviews on BBC Sounds to hear them in full. Now today I'm joined by Heather, who is a specialist community nurse for a London NHS trust, and Mary, who works as an A&E nurse in Leeds. Good morning to you both. Morning.

Heather, I'll start with you. Are you striking today? I am striking today, feeling really positive, excited to get out there. Why have you decided to strike? I think for everyone there's lots of layers and you've kind of got to decide for yourself why you're striking and today I'm striking because I feel at the moment there's very little incentive to join the NHS as a nurse other than possibly out of the kindness of your own heart and I think it's creating a vicious circle of new starters not joining the profession we're experiencing short staffing and that's resulting in poor patient care I think striking

is a way to possibly break that circle. Yeah, patient care seems to be at the heart of this on both sides. We'll get into that in a moment. But Mary, firstly, are you striking? And if you are, why? I'm striking indirectly in that I'm not working today. I've chosen not to work because I, having retired from the NHS after 40 years as a senior sister in A&E I work predominantly in the nurse bank which fills shifts that are unfilled and so I could have worked today but I chose not to and I am going down later to my hospital to support my colleagues on the picket line. Are you concerned Mary about patient care during these strikes? Because that seems to be at the heart of this debate. The government is saying that these strike actions will be detrimental to patient care. But those on the picket line, those nurses have said that actually the way that the nurses are treated at the moment and their working conditions is actually a bigger impact on patient care what's your view patient care could well be affected but I working in the emergency department we are providing a service which should not be

too badly affected by that you know if somebody has a problem and needs to go to the emergency department they will be cared for. And I know that the management in my trust have put in a lot of work to ensure that we can cover the same, offer the same service to patients throughout. I know that it will be affecting non-urgent or less urgent issues such as outpatient appointments, etc. But certainly urgent care will be provided for throughout this strike. Heather what's your views on this because as Mary mentioned life preserving care is still being provided but some cancer treatments will be partially staffed planned operations and mental health care will definitely be impacted. Some patients, at least 19,000, I'm aware of at latest figures, have had to postpone their surgeries and their appointments.

So how do you think strike action is affecting people and how much is that affecting patient care? Yeah, I think, I mean, ultimately, I think the big picture is why did it have to get to this point? I think we're all heartbroken that we're here and that we know it's impacting our patients. I know that there are patients I was due to see today that I will see later in the week now. Ultimately, I think the response from the government means that they're negating that. They're not having the full conversation with the RCN, with Pat Cullen. I think they have the power to mean that this wouldn't happen. But I know that a lot of my colleagues and myself included have really mixed feelings about going ahead with the strike action knowing that people are going to be delayed in accessing treatment however saying that there's

been an awful lot of work weeks and weeks of preparation to make sure that limb and life saving care goes ahead and is protected during the strike action. So let's get to the pay demands Heather because there are many people out there who will not agree with the RCN's pay demand of 19 percent how do you break that down and how do you feel that's justified? So obviously I've had this conversation a few times on the run up to this of people asking the same things and I think I pay my monthly membership to the RCN. I feel like Pat Cullen is very much in our corner as a nurse herself and I hope that when she does get to that table and negotiations are made that she will be able to accept an appropriate

offer from the government that means that we would no longer have to strike and will protect the future of the NHS and our ongoing improved patient care. Mary, where do you stand on this? Do you think 19% is justified? Just to break this down for our listeners, the pay rise that's wanted is 5% above inflation, which is at 14%, which is how we've got to this 19% figure. What's your take on that, Mary, particularly at a time where everyone's pocket is being hit by the cost of living crisis? Yeah, it is a difficult one. And we're not unsympathetic to the fact that it sounds like a huge demand. and perhaps it's unrealistic, but I think it is making the government listen to us

and realising that we have a voice. But I think the most important thing to get across is that we, as nurses, are not striking to have more pennies in our pocket. That's absolutely not the reason why we're doing this we are doing this for patient safety and patients currently certainly in the emergency department are at risk because we're unable to recruit staff to adequately offer the care that they need and in order to recruit the staff the salaries that are offered to nurses nowadays need to be in line with making it a profession that somebody can go into sadly having worked for as long as I have in nursing and I don't think it's necessarily a vocational role anymore

I think a lot of people still see it as that but it also is a profession that should be attractive to people for lots of other reasons as well. And the salary should reflect that. Now, of course, the government aren't here to talk for themselves, but they did send us a statement. And we have this from the Health and Social Care Secretary, Steve Barclay, who said, I hugely value the work of our NHS staff and it is

disappointing some union members are going ahead with further strike action when we know the impacts this has on patients. My number one priority remains keeping patients as safe as possible and I've been working closely with the NHS and across government to protect safe staffing levels. The NHS remains open. Patients should continue to come forward for emergency and urgent medical care. They should also continue to turn up to appointments unless they've been contacted by the NHS. The RCN's demands are unaffordable during these challenging times and would take money away from frontline services while they are still recovering from the impact of the pandemic. I'm open to engaging with the unions on how to make the NHS a better place to work.

Heather, how do you react to the government essentially saying that there's no money? There's no money to pay nurses anymore. There's no money for this 19% pay increase. I mean, my profession is obviously nursing. And when it comes to government budgets I wouldn't like to pretend I was a specialist but what I would like to say is that I think especially in reflection after the pandemic we're so aware and if we weren't if we didn't already know we do now how important the NHS is and I think I think we just have to get the message home

to the government to ministers to whoever holds budget, to those who have been impacted by striking, that this strike and the services that were offered is what we're going to be the fact that we have no staff, so we can't physically run services that are going to result in maintaining the NHS care that we provide at the moment. What we're doing just now isn't sustainable. It's not going to last. And I want to see my colleagues stay in the NHS. And I want to continue to provide the variety of services at the standard we do at the moment if not any better give me a sense of the working conditions at the moment how bad are they what are you seeing I was talking about this this morning and I got really emotional so I'm going to try and not get emotional now um they're really bad I think yeah what are you seeing take a breather um what's really bad I think anyone who goes and this is kind of the buzzword

anyone who goes into reversion cares don't they um they don't we're not it's not a money grabbing profession we're not in it to make the big bucks that was never the end goal that the goal was that we were gonna say Mary's getting emotional as well the goal is that we were going to be able to have a human connection with people and be in that caring role I think um when you are holding someone's hand and you can't relieve their pain yeah i can understand it's an incredibly hard time for you mary do you understand wherever is coming from are you seeing the same sorts of things absolutely yeah um working in the emergency department in Leeds, which is extremely, extremely busy and desperately, desperately short-staffed. and quite often some of the more junior staff use me as a sounding board to talk about the fact that they are so desperately um well they're just finding it very difficult to provide the care

that we all want to give as heather says it is about you know we don't we aren't deliberately um pulling away our services because we are heartless we are working day in day out to try and provide the care and when bells are ringing and patients are calling it's about who do i deal with first which first which patient do i go to first who needs my care um you know the area that a&E has different areas of responsibility. There's a resource area. There's an assessment area. And they should be adequately staffed and they are inadequately staffed at the moment. And the staff who are there are working for three times as many people as just themselves.

You know, and people are waiting long times. Patients get angry angry they come in and shout and abuse um it's it's not fun at the moment it really isn't i think the best way to summarize it is that we're firefighting so instead of being able to provide good standard consistent care if you've been in an a and e and you think that your nurse ignores you to the very last moment, it's ultimately because there's somebody else waiting in that same instance. So it's the pressure relief to make sure that we can turn patients that need multiple staff to do that. It's the time out that we need to take off the floor to assist someone to eat that

can't feed themselves, but we can't do that because there's not enough of us to cover the floor it's going and taking out the painkillers and and chasing um the clinicians that we work with to prescribe them but there's not enough of us that we can leave the floor safely to be able to do that i think resulting in in poor experiences for our patients it's really difficult to spend such an extensive period of time with people that you know you are not providing the standard of care that you wish to. Yeah, this is something that we've been talking about for the last week or two here on Woman's Hour. And we always get quite a strong reaction. We've had a mixed reaction this morning.

Someone's messaged in to say working conditions are mostly down to local management and circumstances of people's illnesses. How is a strike helping that? Someone else says if there's money for wars, money to bail out banks, there is also money to invest in the health of people. We all benefit. The economy will benefit from a healthy population. Someone else has got in touch. I am a mental health nurse. I support the strike.

Being six months from retirement, I have little to gain financially, but I'm concerned at the gradual erosion of our terms and conditions and the future of our profession. Someone else says, I just don't get the government's policy on nurses' pay. Surely it boils down to supply and demand. In order to recruit more nurses, they have to be paid more. Now, Heather, as I said, the Health Secretary, Steve Barclay, has said this is unaffordable. Health Minister will quince has said that the pay rise that's being demanded adds up to 10 billion pounds if the government continue to say that this is unaffordable and they won't budge on your demands um how far will this strike go how long will it go on for i think we are very a very passionate workforce um that's very passionate about our work and and would like to maintain um our jobs um and improve

patient care i think ultimately i speak for myself but at least the colleagues that i work for that will take it as far as it needs to until at least at the very, very least. The government acknowledges and begins conversations and Pat believes that she is being treated fairly and in turn, the rest of the profession is being treated fairly. And Mary, as someone who's been in the profession for over 40 years, are you convinced that it's as bad as it's ever been? Unfortunately, yes. Which is horrible to think. You know, I have seen a lot of changes since starting nursing. An awful lot were for the good and we have improved in so many areas in health care and in nursing care but I hate to admit the fact that I have never seen it so bad

and that you know it's always been busy it's always been poorly paid um you know historically nurses have always been badly paid apparently uh but we've never gone into it for the salary. We've gone into it for the desire to care for people. And that desire is still there. But unfortunately, we can't provide it now because of the situation we're in today. A colleague of mine sent me a message on WhatsApp to say that every time I go home from work thinking that was the worst shift I've ever done and then I go back and it's worse again and that broke my heart when I heard when I read that um so but that's where we are I want to thank you both uh Heather and Mary for for sharing your experiences today and best of luck to you. Thank you for coming on to Woman's Hour. Thanks very much.

Now, Callie Beaton had a high-flying career as a TV executive overseeing a multi-million dollar budget for brands including Nickelodeon, MTV, Comedy Central and Paramount and was responsible for shows including South Park and SpongeBob SquarePants. But she swapped the boardroom for the comedy club after receiving career advice from none other than Joan Rivers. Callie has now achieved her comedy dream by making her debut appearance on the Christmas special

of Live at the Apollo. Let's have a listen where she's talking about her son here. I remember for his second Christmas, I didn't want to do all the gender stereotyping things. So for his second Christmas, I bought him a little iron and an ironing board. I thought that would be so sweet. Turned out he'd never seen me use an iron. He just started walking around saying, I can't talk right now.

Could you send me an email? Brilliant. And Callie is with me in the studio. Good morning, Callie. Good morning. Thanks for having thanks for having me absolute pleasure you've achieved your dream you've appeared on live the Apollo at 53 years young 53 years young yes tell me about the experience it was it everything you imagined it was such an amazing day the Christmas special they record during the daytime and not at Christmas. Sorry, spoiler alert. And even that goes out this week. So I think one of the lovely things about it was because we haven't all had a proper Christmas for a few years.

And it was a difficult time and so many things happening in the world. And the warm up guy sort of said to everybody, right, you know, just just take a holiday from everything that's happening in your life and for two hours it's Christmas just let go and the atmosphere I've never seen nearly 4,000 people so happy to be told just take a holiday from life so I'd love to say it was all down to me but I've never been in such a warm electric room and what was most amazing about it aside from the fact that it was the stand-up goal I had when I when I gave up the boardroom at 45 well I started comedy at 45 gave up my day job a bit later was having my dad and my brother in the audience and there aren't many times are there when your dad and your brother or those two generations dad and my and my son would be at

the age where they could both be there in the room with you. So having the two men who've, I'm a single mum, and they're the two men who've most shaped me and having them there in the room was enormously moving. I spent most of the time before I went on sort of oscillating between extreme nerves and trying not to cry because it all meant so much to me. Yeah, it must have been an emotional time.

And how did they react when they saw you up there? They were really, I mean, my son, they both sort of said things that probably you don't always say to your family, but you're thinking. My dad was quite tearful and I think quite overwhelmed, I hope in a good way, by the whole experience. And my son had to go back. He's a zookeeper down in Devon

and he had to leave the night after it had finished. And he just sent me the most lovely message from the train saying you know it's just hit me and I'm crying and I said what's hit you darling he said just you said you wanted to do something and you've just gone out and made it happen and I'm just so proud of you and I was yeah it was very moving to have that you know your kids don't often affirm you do that so it was very nice to hear. That's a beautiful moment and he mentioned there that you wanted to hear that's a beautiful moment and he mentioned there that you wanted to do something and you did it and I love the story of how you got into it because actually it started a friend made a birthday card with your face on it yeah

it was right and and it had a it had a comedic theme to it. Tell us about that. So when I first was thinking about being a stand-up and a friend of mine who I worked with, the lovely Marisa, who I'll make sure listens to this, she did some headshots for me. She used to take photos kind of on the side of her day job. And she put one for my birthday. She photoshopped it onto the Apollo. So it was my face on the side of the Apollo.

And I framed it and just put it in my study at home. And it was just always there. And when I got booked for the Apollo, I sent a screenshot of it to Marisa saying, what are you doing on this date? Which was the recording date. And she went, no. And I said, yeah, I'm doing Apollo. And she said, I sent a picture of the card. And she said, what, you kept the card? I said, well, I didn I didn't only keep it I framed it and it meant the world to me when you

made it and it means even more to me today and she was one of my lovely friends who was there on the day so there were you know I don't know how much you can believe in visualizing your success but somewhere inside me that was sort of pulling me forward and I have to say when lockdown hit I had the I decided to take the leap and give up the day job not long before lockdown every single thing in my diary fell out in that 48 hour period before lockdown was announced I had a couple of breaks about to happen one of them on telly And I was just 50 at the time, nearly 51. And I thought, well, this is my moment gone then. I was so lucky to be nearly getting these things at 50. What were the odds? And now that I'm going to have to say goodbye to all of this. So I pretty much just thought I can't

get these things anymore. Who's going to want a new face at my age? And it just meant the world to get this. And my story of reinvention isn't redemptive. I'm still a hot mess. I'm fitting the wheels while I fly the plane. But I suppose it's my story. And that's the bit that I would always say to people is we should decide what we want our story to be. And the world does stereotype all of us in our different ways. No one likes to be underestimated.

And no one likes to be underestimated and no one likes to be misunderstood or put into a box. So it's not about whether you do things brilliantly or you don't, but it's just deciding what you want your voice to be, I think. Yeah, it's an incredible story of reinvention, but also a story of courage to leave a high-flying job where you're very successful into jumping into the unknown. Tell me how it came about, though. How did you actually pursue comedy? And tell me about the advice you got from a certain Joan Rivers. So I was at board level at one of the Hollywood sort of giants,

so at the time ViacomCBS, who owned Comedy Central. And I had a very unglamorous job. I was doing the kind of business side revenue generation, but working on some kind of interesting, lovely shows. And we would bring A-list talent with us to kind of trade shows and business events around the world. And I had the pleasure of working with the late, great Joan Rivers a couple of times.

And we would host these events for sort of drunken, jaded TV executives where we'd bring on the A-list talent, whoever it might be, in order to get those executives to part with their money and invest in the shows and I would just try and keep the rooms warm until the talent came on and I'd done that for Joan Rivers a couple of times and the last time I saw her we were at a dinner together it was a couple of weeks before she died and she said

to me you should think about doing stand-up Callie because what you're really doing for me is kind of my warm-up and I think you should give it a go and I said at the time I was 45 and I said to her Joan it's just too late for me I'm 45 I'm a single parent of two kids one of them's got special needs and I've got a massive day job and she just looked me in the eye and she said, Callie, I'm 81. You're in the thick of it. What are you waiting for? And she died very unexpectedly a couple of weeks after that conversation, which hit me and lots of people very hard. I'd grown up watching her busting through the glass ceilings of Hollywood

in the 60s and 70s when no women were doing what she was doing. I knew because of people like Joan Rivers that women could be funny and a couple of weeks after her death I did my first gig an open mic gig above a pub and I yeah I would love to say I never looked back I mean you never learn as much from a good gig as you do from a bad gig it was it wasn't great uh it wasn't amazing and then I thought I'll do one more and if that goes okay I'll keep going. And I did another one and won a little prize, a little open mic gig and thought, OK, between those, they net out to being all right. The other advice she gave me, which listeners may appreciate, I was online dating at the time, as I still am. And she said, the thing about online dating, Callie, is the odds are good, but the goods are odd. So share that with people.

That is advice for life, I think, from the late, great Joan Rivers. So tell me about your material then. What are you talking about? We heard that clip there about your son, but what inspires your material? So it definitely is things that happen to me, my observations,

and often they are coming from a different angle as compared to the audiences I'm talking to. So in live venues, it's often sort of much younger, sort of Gen Z kind of audience. Obviously, I'm a Gen Xer. My son is a massive source of inspiration. And anyone who saw Apollo, who catches up with it on iPlayer, the final edit, apparently about half of it was my stuff about him. He's an autistic primate keeper, by which I mean he's autistic. He doesn't look after gorillas who are very good at maths and and he sent me a text when he was watching it live and he said well mum in the edit I'm at least 40 percent of so I'd like 40 percent of your fee

please so um so my son is definitely an inspiration to me um on stage and off as is my daughter and I also talk quite a lot about my life phase so I. So I'm a sort of celebratory single woman in my 50s. I love my life as somebody who's never been married and I have a lovely time being as I am. And I also talk about menopause and the sort of, yeah, what it's really like to be going through this, dating older men when you're already 53.

It's all quite candid, honest stuff then about your life. What's the audience reaction like? It's pretty much always really warm, I think. And actually, it's often people who are the generation of my son and my daughter who are coming up, and I think they're seeing a different side. I'm probably, you know, their mum's age, and they're just seeing a different side of what probably their mum might be doing but might not be talking to them about.

And I do also talk quite a lot, you know, that clip you heard was it was a bit I do about gender stereotypes. So I do talk. Really, it's about equalism, isn't it? So I try and just have my authentic voice and talk about the things that matter to me. And in a way that I hope will make people laugh. But, you know, I am big on making sure I've got lots of punchlines. I think you can get away with talking about anything if you make it funny and you're not punching down to anyone mine's mine is always trying to lift people up not bring them down. Uplifting comedy. It's definitely uplifting I do some sort of I go into some dark themes but I whether I do a lot of emceeing and my aim is to always make the audience feel, you know, better about having gone.

I would never want to make anyone regret having come. So, yes, I'm not sort of controversial in terms of punching down to anybody. I might have a politician who's done something I don't like. That's fair game, isn't it? But no, I'd always. So when I talk about my son's autism, I did a show called Super Cali Fragile Lipstick, which was the best title I've ever had. Not the best show, sadly, but I did a show about my son's autism and it was about celebrating his autism. And all the jokes were at the expense of me being a mum trying to navigate that. And I had some incredible responses from that. And I hope that it brought a subject out into the world that people might not always talk about in that way so yes it is it is candid it's more candid than my kids would like sometimes but there you go yeah so I'm sure many people can relate to to um what you're saying and the reaction you're

getting is clearly very positive what would you say to those people who were like you were unsure about making that leap to something that they've always wanted to do but haven't quite got the courage to pursue it what would you advise those people? I wish someone had said to me when I was much younger that no one knows what they're doing everybody thinks they're going to be found out and there's a lovely quote from Samuel Beckett which I think sums it up and it's I'm ever'm ever tried, ever failed, no matter, try again, fail again, fail better. And I've got that emblazoned on my studio wall at home. And I think if you're not trying to do it to be perfect or successful,

but you're doing it because you love it and you're going to see what happens next, then lots of things are possible. Oh, i'm sure many of our listeners are listening to that thinking okay that is the piece of inspiration i needed this morning uh i certainly feel that way callie it's been a pleasure to talk to you thank you for coming into the woman's hour studio thank you so much for having me absolute pleasure uh we're still getting a lot of reaction from our listeners to our last chat about nurses lots of of people messaging in. Someone has said that the NHS is a bottomless money pit with managers wasting money on non-clinical posts such as diversity managers. We could double or triple the budget and there still wouldn't be enough.

Thank you for that, Sean. Someone else says, I spent many hours in A&E with my daughter who desperately needed antibiotics. Eventually she was allocated a nurse who was a bank nurse. She was appalled by the chaos due to the lack of staff. Why don't you talk to the managers of which there are many in the NHS on high salaries? See what they are doing to improve the situation for nurses. Continue to get in touch with us about the nurses story that we've been covering, the strike and also anything else on Women's Hour this morning. You can text, you can email and you can get in touch via WhatsApp as well. Now, what sort of state is your hair in at the moment?

Over lockdown, a lot of us gave up on our hair, apparently, whether that was dyeing it, curling it, having it cut, even washing it in some instances. But have the various lockdowns had a wider impact on our hairstyles and trends? Are you happier now to go naturally grey? Are you less concerned about having your hair cut, for example? Trends are funny things. And the newest one, where hair is concerned, seems to be to show your undyed roots. It's a look achieved by a process called root smudging. Have you heard of it?

Let's find out more about this. Freelance hairstylist and session stylist Sophia Kuer is with me now. Sophia, good morning. Good morning. Good morning. How are you? I'm very well, thank you. I'm really interested in this subject because it's definitely affected the way I look, I think, these lockdowns and also trying to cut back on certain things as well during the cost of living crisis. But let's start with hair. What is this root smudging all about? What is it?

What happens? And how popular is it? Well, it's gotten more and more popular. I think it started off a little bit more when they left regrowth length. And then they're smudging in. So they're trying to blend the roots because people want it to last longer interesting interesting you want to blur the regrowth lines basically and some people use it as well to kind of tone down the gray a little bit but you're

still keeping a bit of the depth in the roots so it also makes it much more low maintenance so why are people doing this i think people it's it's become a trend as well because now it's the look of looking effortless it's kind of become a little bit cool to look like this but obviously you it lasts longer because in the old times there was the full-on highlights and you have a really strong line a regrowth line or a colored line because you can do the smudging even with this like not even highlights just all over color and you can give it a bit of a depth in the roots so someone who has a dark hair and maybe they have a brownie red color and then the root comes out and it's a line you can smudge it in and they're blending it in so you have like an inch or a little bit more but it's a very soft blend okay so you don't have to come

often yeah so it and you said it lasts longer so assuming that means people will be spending less money on on doing their hair which is great at a time like this when people are feeling the pinch and trying to save pennies yeah it's definitely been a little bit of that going on as well um i think after the lockdown as well because people started growing out their hair because it was they couldn't go and have the hair done and some people got used to having a bit of roots or showing a little bit of the gray hair as well so i think yeah people are definitely saving a little bit now i can feel that people are waiting a little bit longer between the appointments not everyone it has a little bit to do with each character as

well not everyone can handle the grace for sure or having roots but it's definitely it become more acceptable yeah it does seem to be it seems to be part of a wider trend where perhaps women are I suppose happier looking less immaculate and more focused on being natural is is that a trend that you've noticed definitely definitely even with the thing that people have grown out their curly hairs now because I think a lot of people were constantly having their hair blow-dried and you've seen also afros coming back a lot actually where people actually dare to wear their hair naturally. And it's amazing to see this because this thing has been forced on for many people with curly hair.

I have natural curly hair as well. But this whole thing that you don't look professional if you don't smooth your hair out. And I think for people even who now keep their hair gray, it's more about maintaining the quality of their hair, keeping it moist, keeping it well so that it looks still nice. Even if you have your natural greys or a curl, just using de-freezing creams or serums, which is great actually. And it saves a lot of time because people always want to save time. We never have enough time anymore, do we? Yeah, save time and save energy. And I'm glad you mentioned afros because that's something that's happened for me I spend a lot less time getting my hair done in braids and and things like that because of the lockdown and I

couldn't get it done I had to basically find another route and I've actually kept it going and it's actually a lot more liberating um rather than having to rely on getting a hairstyle that takes eight hours at a time. I can do my hair a lot quicker. Something else I've noticed is that the grey hairs, Sophia, the grey hairs are coming through. But actually, I've learned to embrace that. Are a lot of women doing the same thing in terms of seeing grey hairs come through during lockdown and perhaps thinking, actually, I might just leave it? I think there's been a mixture there. I think some people grew it out quite a fair bit and then they said, I can't do this. But it depends on your quality of the hair. Some people's hair look better gray than others. And also I have some clients where we kept the gray partly but you're adding on some highlights or some low lights and give it so you actually can still see the grays but you're making

it a bit softer so yeah there's a there's a combination there I think a lot of people in the beginning of the after the lockdown they were like oh wow I want to get my hair done again but then there was other people like actually this is easy you know I can I can have my roots I can have my gray and I don't feel too bad with it. But I think it's gone a bit both ways, you know? Yeah, yeah. I spend a lot less time on my hair. I spend a lot less time trying to go for manicures.

I tried doing it myself, but, I mean, it doesn't usually end very well. What other trends can we expect to see in 2023, do you think, Sophia? You're at the forefront of this. So what hair trends can we expect to see in 2023, do you think, Sofia? You're at the forefront of this. So what hair trends can we expect to see next year? I still think that the roots are here to stay for a bit longer because we had the ombres, we had the balayage and stuff that's been going on for a while. But, you know, everything goes in cycles.

So surely at some point again, it's going to be no roots again but at the moment i still think it's here to stay because people really like the fact that they don't have to go every so often to do the hair and they can do the smudging in between if they need to even to soften the grays uh there's a lot of 70s styles coming in and still we have like 90s fashion more bobs and all this classic stuff but it's it's more like they're doing blow dries and stuff again as well but it's still a bit more tussled you see a bit more of shaggy looks so it's a yeah done but not extremely done still but I still I think a lot of people will keep a lot of their natural hair and definitely like more curly hair. You've still seen it.

It's going to stay a bit longer because people just don't want to go back to doing all that effort. Maybe for a special occasion they feel like a change because they get bored. But, yeah. I love that. More natural, the better for me at this point in my life. So, Sophia, thank you for taking us through that. And you've given us some lovely tips there as well

for our listeners, I think. Sophia is a freelance hairstylist. Thank you for coming on to Woman's Hour this morning. So much. After my chat there with the comedian Callie Beaton, we've had this lovely messaging coming from one of our listeners saying, so inspiring.

I'm exactly the same age and also gave up my job during lockdown to pursue my lifelong wish of being an artist. It's going well, but I can relate to all that she says. I too am proud to have shown my children it's never too late to be brave enough to follow your instincts. Still have a bit of imposter syndrome, but keeping at it. That's from Ruth in Cornwall. Good luck to you, Ruth. Sounds like you're doing incredibly well. Now, a recent survey of teachers in secondary schools have shown that they are going above and beyond to help their students through the cost of living crisis. The survey was commissioned by charity Education Support and revealed that more than a quarter of teachers in state secondary schools have prepared food for their pupils and 13% have washed their students' clothes. I spoke earlier this morning to teacher and author of Those Who Can Teach,

Andrea Seferiraku, who is a teacher in the London Borough of Brent. What was her reaction to the figures in the survey? Is that all? Is that all? Yes, of course. And not just myself, many, many colleagues in my school yeah absolutely um i'm actually gonna go now to i've got an intervention class with my year 11s i'm gonna on the way they're gonna go to the co-op and just get them loads of snacks because you know it's it's it's about making sure that they feel valued as well there's nothing worse than seeing a young person come into into the school when they're hungry because they can't concentrate they get angry and that's not right that's that's that's when it hurts and that's when learning does not take place but um yeah and i'm not the only person who would say

yes i've done this there are hundreds and hundreds of teachers all over the world um but this isn't a new thing jessica this has been going on for a very very very long time it's great that it's now in the in the limelight but This has been going on for a very, very, very long time. It's great that it's now in the limelight, but this has been going on for a long time. This is something that comes with the package of teaching in an inner-city school. Why do you think this is? Why do you think children are having less food in their lunchboxes? Why are they coming to school with their clothes unkept? Why are some of them smelling? We know there's a problem in terms of money and income coming into the households. We know that in terms of inflation,

suddenly huge pressures on rents. We've got, we've heard stories and we've got situations where, you know, the parents are coming to us on the school gate saying, look, do you have any vouchers, food vouchers? Every day we are giving them free uniforms um and um you know trying to keep them warm um by by offering them coats and things so the parents now are outreaching to us saying i need help that never used to happen there's a sense of pride within our community but um it's becoming much more transparent now they know that schools are a place whereby um there's a supportive community um and we are we could be their first port of call

and do you think this is a direct cause of the cost of living crisis oh absolutely that and also covid as well i think it's been trickling on um and let's not forget that it's not just parents and young people but it's also's also the younger teachers as well, who are also really struggling in terms of the rise, the rising costs in terms of their rent, their living allowances. So it's happened as a direct knock on effect from that. And emotionally, how are the children dealing with perhaps not being as clean as they want, not being well fed? What impact is it having on their mental state? The thing with young people, many of them are very resilient.

They are stronger than we give them credit for and they just get on with it. And with young people, most of them, they're very accepting of each other as well. Many of them know that this is how it is, so there's nothing that they can do, they can physically do, so I have to just get on with life. But it's when we see it as adults, when we see it in terms of the pastoral teams in schools, that we know it shouldn't be like this. This is when it really hurts. And obviously you have to be very delicate in how you approach it and very delicate in communicating to the families because it really could produce some you know some some kind of conflict and and in terms of people's dignities as well. Is this a school's responsibility you say that the parents know and

caregivers know that they can they can come to to you and people in your team because you can offer perhaps vouchers or you can offer that extra service and go above and beyond. But is this a responsibility that you should be taking on your shoulders? I mean, I would love to say a school's responsibility is to teach and prepare children for life. You know, regardless of that, this is what we're getting. This is what we're having to deal with. And if schools and educational establishments don't deal with it, then who will? Where will these young people get the support they need? Where will the parents get the support they need? Ideally, no, our business is education we're

there to inspire to educate young people we don't really want to be having to deal with the the emotional exhaustion as well of having the other issues which are piling on as we mentioned earlier but we have to we've got no choice we are going to do it because it's the right moral thing to do so for you and for teachers like you that are going above and beyond you're helping pupils who perhaps are hungry you're helping those that can't wash their own clothes how are you dealing with this how is it impacting you um how is impacting us it's impacting us by possibly diverting our attention we could be doing other things but we're now focusing on on this but hey you know that's if that's what it is then so be it so this is impacting on the how you teach your students how i suppose how effective their education can be

i would be really concerned about putting a label on this that the quality of teaching is now going down but what it is it could have is an effect on the human resources a school has got so instead of having you know you've got a colleague who could be doing extra reading with a young person maybe they're now being asked to do some phone calls home to support provision in the in the parental home so it's probably a much a greater impact on school budget and also human resources in the school so what would you like to see more of what would you like to see done if if you had you know a magic wand or you had the ability to speak to government andrea what what can be done to improve this oh the list is huge the list is huge um first of all you know i would i would absolutely advocate the free school meals for every child.

Every child should have the opportunity to have a free school meals. I think, you know, some schools in some communities could be supported. And when I mean supported, we need the cash, we need the money from the government to make sure that we are, we could keep our schools open a little bit later with the after school provision and then feed the children again so that we know they're having two hot meals or at least one hot meal in the school and we need to have more supports for the families so you know if we had the autonomy of being able to support the families when they come up to us as do you have any food vouchers then you know that would be really useful because we know our school community in terms of teacher training,

just the little things on what to look out for, how to communicate, how to deal with this effectively. So making sure that every staff has got the emotional intelligence and the skill set to be able to battle these issues. And I just think it's just acknowledgement that we are the first line of call and we need the financial input to support that. Mental health is a challenge. So whatever we can do to support schools by having more educational psychologists working with us so that we can really battle these anxious moments for our young people. That was teacher Andrea Safiraku who was sharing her experiences with me earlier this morning. We had a statement come in from a government spokesperson who has said that latest figures show that there are 200,000 fewer children in absolute poverty after housing costs compared to 2019-2020, but we recognise that families are

struggling with rising prices and our priority will always be to support the most vulnerable, which is why we are protecting millions with at least £1,200 of direct payments. Now for those who are grieving the loss of a loved one, Christmas time can be a very difficult period, even more so when it's the first Christmas without them. One listener got in contact with us to suggest that we feature an item at this time on how to talk to parents whose child or children have died. Ruth's son Fergus was 12 years old when he died of cancer in May this year, and she joins me now. Good morning, Ruth. Good morning. Good morning Ruth. Good morning, hello, hi. Hi, great to have you. So as I said Fergus died just seven months ago and you said in your email to us that you

feel that people don't know how to talk to you and they will avoid you. What's been your experience? Well in my experience, well first of all thank you very much for talking about this today. I know it's an awkward subject, and I know that it's very hard to know what to say, and I don't pretend for one minute that, A, I have all the answers, or I'm an expert in it. However, I am realising that more and more and more that people aren't even saying his name, that people feel awkward to the point where if they

do talk to me then they're very reluctant to not even just talk about that he's died but even say his name and I wanted to say that it's not that this is not just in my experience but in the experience of a lot of bereaved parents not saying the child's name is very isolating. It's very hurtful. And it makes us feel that our child has been forgotten. And now that is the worst thing that can happen to us, that our child be forgotten. Yeah, I can understand this is um so raw because it's just seven

months and you know i really appreciate you coming on to talk about this is such a raw time and i'm so sorry for your loss can you tell us what you would like people to say how you would like people to approach you about this i think people the, first of all, they need to realise that they're not going to make me happy. They can't fix it. The only thing that they can do is possibly face up to their own fear or awkwardness and be aware that they do have something to offer, that they can help, they can't fix it, but they could facing up to their own fears and not to panic. Tell us about Fergus. Fergus was a very kind, intelligent, hardworking, competitive young man. He was very, very funny and could make me laugh

so easily. And he was an absolute joy. I mean, if there was something he wanted to do, he would do it wholeheartedly. He wasn't one to give up. And that was the same approach he had when he got ill. And he was only diagnosed this sort of January last year. It's hard to get my head around, of primary bone cancer. And he desperately wanted to live. And if you think he has potentially another 80 years of life ahead of him, that's a lot for anybody to get their head around.

And I miss him, but I miss what he has missed out on. It seems, yes, that's him. Thank you. Thank you for asking. It sounds absolutely wonderful. And I understand it's particularly hard at this time of year, during Christmas time, isn't it for you? Well, I think potentially, I'm trying not to preempt how I'm going to feel, because I don't know from one day to the next how I'm going to feel and I you know I don't want to put any pressure on myself thinking oh it's going to be dreadful um I hope I hope it's not um but I was just aware that there are a lot of parents out there who are facing their first Christmas or even 10th Christmas I don't think it gets any

better and um there are some general rules that I think would help and that is mostly being with that parent allowing them to talk to listen to not try and fix and to not disappear but just keep on showing up keep on showing up and have people been able to do that for you in in your life i know that you mentioned um in your email about your son's funeral and how many people came to the funeral and how many people stayed in touch afterwards yeah after the funeral i think this is very common um throughout um the the contact does tend to drop off um now even just seven months in I think it's mostly the day-to-day checking in pop round you've got to be brave I know it's awkward I wouldn't know what to do either but

pop round show your face listen and just just just be there I think, and talk as you would. I love Fergus as much as I loved him before he died. That doesn't go. And to continue that is very important. And you're keen for people to include him in things like Christmas cards, aren't you? I think that would be nice, even just remembering him. Yeah, thinking of us. I know everyone's thinking of us, but we're thinking of of Fergus and we want other people to be thinking of him too

have you had a chance to speak to other parents who have lost children yes yes has it been helpful have you been able to get some advice from them absolutely yes yes yes um there's a compassionate friends a wonderful organisation to help bereaved parents and local charities as well. Because this is another thing that bereaved parents often go on to do remarkable things. They have a passion. They have a desire to go out and not change the world, but at least make it a little bit brighter. And that's another thing that people might realize we do have something to offer yeah have you been able to speak or see your son's friends uh yes I have not as maybe as much as I'd like um but yes I have I stayed in touch with a couple of

his closest friends does that is that helpful or is that just not a reminder? I never forget. That's the thing. No one, if you talk to me, even if I'm washing up or I'm driving a car, I'm thinking about Fergus. So nothing, no. And with his friends, yes, I want to make sure that they're OK. And if they didn't want to speak to me, that's fine. But I'm very lucky that, yes, his friends have stayed in touch.

And talking again just to those people that are unsure of how to approach a subject like this, because I think it's culturally it's something that we don't talk about or we we kind of move away from because as you said it's quite awkward what from your point of view would you like to see more people do just be themselves and not panic and realize that even if we're out and about we're doing shopping and whatever that we are thinking about our child and we would appreciate i don't know depending on the circumstances i'll go back and biscuits left on the doorstep i don't know something um there's a just not for a child not to be forgotten and for them not to be scared and it's it's awkward it is awkward it is and we all appreciate that but

it's fine to be awkward i think those are really encouraging words and i thank you rue for coming onto the program and sharing your story with us this morning thank you very much that's all we have time for on woman's hour this morning back tomorrow just after 10 and that's all for today's Woman's Hour. Join us again next time. Dance. It entertains us and it connects us. And in my second series of Ultima Busse's Dancing Legends,

I explore some more iconic dancers who have been doing just that. Join me, Ultima Busse, as I delve into the lives of these trailblazers and pioneers who have changed the world of dance forever. The tap dancing duo who astounded audiences with their acrobatic skills. The Hollywood legend who showed her versatility across different dance styles on screen. We'll hear about it all. So let's celebrate the magic of dance together.

Subscribe to Ultima Busse's Dancing Legends on BBC Sound. I'm Sarah Treleaven, and for over a year, I've been working on one of the most complex stories I've ever covered. There was somebody out there who was faking pregnancies. I started, like, warning everybody. Every doula that I know. It was fake. No pregnancy.

And the deeper I dig, the more questions I unearth. How long has she been doing this? What does she have to gain from this? From CBC and the BBC World Service, The Con, Caitlin's Baby. It's a long story, settle in. Available now.