Woman's Hour - Parenting Podcast: Children and Coronavirus

Episode Date: March 5, 2020

Reducing anxiety in children, and helping them protect themselves and others.

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BBC Sounds. Music, radio, podcasts. Hello, Jenny Murray welcoming you to this week's podcast for parents. And just to let you know, we have recorded this at the beginning of March 2020. The front page of every newspaper and the lead of every news bulletin throughout this week has had the word coronavirus. And on Wednesday, the first words spoken to me when I arrived at work were, are you scared of the coronavirus? So how are children coping with the deep anxiety from which everyone seems to be suffering? How can we reassure them and get them to put it in perspective? Professor Trudy Lang is director of the Global Health Network at the University of Oxford and joined us from there.

Emma Citron is a consultant clinical psychologist. Emma, what's the best way to reassure a child that actually they probably won't be affected? I think sticking to the facts is always a good starting point, Jenny. So just letting them know what we know so far and keeping them abreast of the facts. I think the worst thing to do is to try to hoodwink them or gloss over that. So that's a starting point. And then just to point out, you know, we're not expecting an Armageddon here. We're not expecting to fall

off a cliff we're just expecting to manage and and tackle and deal and then going on to quietly reassure them really. We have had an email or a text maybe from someone called Alice who said my five-year-old is very worried having having nightmares, and thinks we might all die. He thought he would catch it by being bitten by a fox. So I think he half heard something about live markets and filled in the blanks, but he is enjoying singing Happy Birthday with his hand washing. I mean, that is real extreme anxiety, isn't it? It is, and I think whenever there's something in the press or something going on in the world, it does have this effect on some people. It's recognising that anxiety, even being prepared to take a child to the GP to discuss it and get a referral if the anxiety stays high.

But I think in the first instance, it's a question of trying to present the balanced argument, presenting them with a different narrative that isn't just all about doom and gloom and catastrophe, because I think that's often what the headlines highlight. Trudy, we have been told that overall the illness is much less common in the under 20s. Why? And how do we know that that is definitely the case? Yeah, good morning, Jenny. Thank you. So, and it follows nicely from what Emma just said. So my role in this is a researcher and I'm working with colleagues around the globe to address these unknowns. And what we can also do is help understand the data and put it all in context, which is I think exactly what we've just heard. Yeah, and I'm also a mum, so I'm busy myth-busting with the children and trying to put this all in context. So absolutely, we know from the data that's come out of China,

because we're making a lot of progress, actually, in answering many of these questions and understanding the data, we know from the figures in China that less than 1% of children... Less than 1% of those infected have been children and none have died. And the majority of the burden of the disease is, of course, still in China. But we have to plan for more transmission in the UK. And that's what the politicians have to do. But we do need to keep it in context with the very low numbers we're actually still seeing now.

What myths are you busting down with your own children? Well, I think exactly like we've just heard. And, you know, they come out with all sorts of things and they dramatically inflate the numbers sometimes too. So I think just understanding the facts and putting them in context. So hardly any children have been infected. None have died. And that I think, you know, it's also trying to explain to them the difference between the job of the politicians who have to plan for the worst-case scenario, but actually we can...

That's maybe the job of us as scientists and researchers to try and then put those steps in context and explain it into the reality of the numbers, which are nothing like that as yet, and may not become that bad either. But what would you say to them about their worries about their mums and dads and possibly their grandparents? Yes, exactly. Because, of course, it's the older generations that are assumed to be most at risk.

And that's where the government and Public Health England and everybody's working to really make sure that the most vulnerable part of the population is absolutely safe. And so that's where we're trying to make sure that everybody does the hand washing if possible. We try and avoid situations where those people in the population can be protected. And that's why everybody has their part to play, but keeping that in context. The real risk to the individual is low, extremely low to children, but we do need to make sure that if it does pass through the population in high numbers, and that's an if, that we can look after the most vulnerable.

And a lot of that is about the hand washing and trying to make sure that everybody doesn't get ill all at once. And how easy is it to communicate the advice about hand washing without encouraging obsessive compulsive disorder? I think this is a very interesting one, Jenny. I think for those people, adults and children, who have OCD, obsessive compulsive tendencies, this is not great, this news that we're getting, because clearly it's feeding into that aspect of their mental health. I don't think it's going to trigger OCDs in children or adults, but I do think that it's going to exacerbate those symptoms of for people that

already have an underlying disposition. Trudy how much should we be advising them that social media maybe should be avoided because it can't necessarily be trusted to be giving them accurate information? I think this is a good perhaps perhaps, question more of a parent than a scientist, but exactly, and it's looking, I always talk about looking for reliable sources of information and what they're looking at, and I think the fact that this is the same here, that they just need to think carefully about what they're reading and perhaps check it with other sources like the BBC or trusted sources outside of what they've read on their Instagram feeds perhaps.

And what do teachers need to watch out for? Because it seems to me when this virus is so much talked about, it might create a reason for bullying somebody. Have you washed your hand? Your hands are dirty. Where do you come from? Have you been in touch with it? That kind of thing. What should teachers be looking for? Well, I think teachers should be keeping an eye out for that, particularly down ethnic roots or people, you know, with even Italian roots or whatever it is. I think there is a real danger of that, actually, of people being stigmatised in that way. I think teachers are very good at weaving

into sort of talk time, class time, general discussions, which cover a variety of topics like the environment and other sources of possible anxiety and teachers need to be aware of bullying potential and also of the anxieties of the youngsters and how that's being triggered by the stuff that we're hearing about in the media. And just finally Trudy how would you explain the importance of the hand washing and it not just being about protecting yourself but maybe about protecting others yeah i think i'd also start with saying that it's it's such a good um prevention step for any um infectious disease including the normal flu so it's something that children should be encouraged to do anyway so perhaps it's been a useful step in just introducing that i've spent

most of my career working in Africa and trying to prevent infectious disease spread and hygiene and hand washing is central to that as well. So it's a sensible educational step that we can put in. So maybe that's a helpful context to put it in as well. Emma, how surprised have you been at some of the stories where we've heard that kids have not been taught to wash their hands before they eat or when they've been to the toilet that certainly wasn't the case when I was young I think it's horrifying I think I think we've got a little bit too relaxed and I think the professor's right in that respect so there have been some useful lessons that have come out of

this and I think it's it's really to emphasise the positive and the proactive and what can kids actively do to make a small difference, because that empowers them and makes them feel that they can actually do something, which I think is good for their mental health, too. Well, Emma Citron and Professor Trudy Lang, thank you both very much indeed for being with us. And we would like to hear from you as well. Let us know how your kids are coping with it and how willing they are to keep on washing their hands. We had a number of emails. This came from Sarah. Listening with interest to the Women's Hour discussion on children and anxiety around coronavirus. My youngest child is only seven but was diagnosed with inflammatory bowel disease at

four. As it's an autoimmune condition where the overactive immune system effectively attacks the bowel, he is on two immunosuppressive medications, one taken orally and one that we inject once a fortnight. I'm terrified about how vulnerable he is, but I'm resolute about not passing on my fear to my son. I try calmly to reinforce the importance of hand washing to both my children without filling them with fear. Katie emailed on the hand washing advice. No one seems to be talking about the issues with this if you have a skin condition on your hand such as eczema which extra washing really exacerbates. These conditions are more common in children. I've had eczema since I was a child and if it's particularly bad my skin cracks and bleeds. Putting sanitizers on is agony and washing hands

completely dries them out. And then from Amy, I listened with interest. My son, who's now seven, is terribly worried about the virus. I've tried to limit him watching the news and play the situation down, but it's very difficult to avoid. He told me yesterday that he prayed to God that he doesn't die young. He's also returned from school with the most sore, cracked and dry hands. I think he's taking the washing to an obsessive level. And Nick, he said, to be done correctly, hand washing takes time and you need to know how to do it. Imagine the pressure for the teacher of supervising the handwashing of classes of 30 children. And that's all for today. Do remember, if you have ideas about discussions about being a parent, do let us know.

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