Woman's Hour - Playing Whitney - Naomi Ackie; Sarah de Lagarde; Being Cared for at Christmas; False Eyelashes

Episode Date: December 16, 2022

Sarah de Lagarde was commuting home on the London Underground when she slipped through the gap between the platform edge and the train at High Barnet station. She was run over by two tube trains. She lost her right leg and arm as a result and spent two months in hospital before being discharged on December 1st. She is now learning how to walk again and is fundraising for a new bionic arm. Sarah joins Anita to share her extraordinary story of survival and recovery.British actor Naomi Ackie takes centre stage in the new biopic, Whitney Houston: I Wanna Dance which comes out on 23 December. Naomi spent a year learning to talk, sing and move like Whitney for the blockbuster film which documents the life and career of the woman who became one of the bestselling music artists of all time, known simply as ‘The Voice.’ We’re getting into the swing of the Christmas party season now with many of us making up for lost time during the pandemic, glamming up with false eyelashes. According to a recent poll, eyelash extensions are one of the top beauty treatments requested by consumers - for example, there was a 795% increase on searches for Russian Lashes in 2019. But how can we best wear and care for false eyelashes? And what are the alternatives? To find out more Anita is speaks to the columnist Sali Hughes and Consultant Ophthalmic and Oculoplastic Surgeon Dr. Elizabeth Hawkes.Over the Christmas period, it is estimated that more than 950,000 disabled people across the UK will need paid in-home care. The narrative surrounding carer workers has often been one of self-sacrifice and pity for having to work over Christmas - but what is it like as the person who needs care to share your Christmas day with people who aren’t your family? Lady-Marie Dawson-Malcom was a physical training instructor in the British army, a mother to a six-month-old daughter and was preparing to take part in her first London marathon, when she sustained a C5 complete spinal cord injury after a fall – meaning she requires 24/7 in home care. She joins Anita to describe her experience.Presented by Anita Rani Producer: Louise Corley Editor: Beverley Purcell

This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK. I'm Natalia Melman-Petrozzella, and from the BBC, this is Extreme Peak Danger. The most beautiful mountain in the world. If you die on the mountain, you stay on the mountain. This is the story of what happened when 11 climbers died on one of the world's deadliest mountains, K2, and of the risks we'll take to feel truly alive. If I tell all the details, you won't believe it anymore. Extreme, peak danger. Listen wherever you get your podcasts.

BBC Sounds. Music, radio, podcasts. Hello, I'm Anita Rani and welcome to Woman's Hour from BBC Radio 4. Good morning. We have made it to Friday. I hope you're managing to stay warm wherever you are. It's a dream come true today on Woman's Hour. Whitney Houston, I want to dance with somebody. The biopic is coming out on the 26th of December. I've seen it, I've loved it, and I'm very excited to be speaking to the incredible Naomi Aki, who plays Whitney in the film. And also on the show today, as party season is upon us,

we're going to be giving you the down-low, the all-you-need-to-know about eyelashes. Strips, individuals, semi-permanent, Russian, whatever your style, by the end of today, we will all be experts. I'm also going to be talking to a woman who has needed round the clock care for 30 years after losing all feeling in her body from a spinal injury. So today, I'll be discussing caring at Christmas. Are you a care worker or somebody who needs care? We'd like to hear from you on the programme today. What plans and arrangements are you making for the festive period? You can get in touch with me about that or anything you hear on the show today or indeed how you feel when you hear Whitney's I want to dance with somebody for me. It just makes me

want to get up and have a boogie. The number is 84844 you can also contact us via social media it's at bbc woman's hour or you can email me through the website and you can also send us a whatsapp message or a voice note using the number 03700 100 444 data charges may apply depending on your provider so do check before you do and if you would like to send us a voice note we would very much like to hear your voices um short and sweet is the preferable uh length but first to an extraordinary story of survival sarah delagarde was commuting home on the london underground when she slipped through the gap between the platform edge and the train at a North London station. She was run over by two tube trains, losing her right leg and arm as a result. Sarah spent two months in hospital before being discharged on December the 1st and I'm pleased to say Sarah is now at home and joins me

this morning from in front of a very tastefully decorated Christmas tree. Sarah, welcome to Woman's Hour. Well, thank you very much for having me. How are you doing today? I'm doing, actually, I'm doing really well. It's really lovely to be at home with my husband and my two children. It's great. Before we talk about the accident, let's just rewind to life before, just before, because you'd just climbed Kilimanjaro,'t you you and your husband? Yes so it was a a dream 10 years in the making really my husband and I had been speaking about climbing that mountain for many many years and we had many attempts in trying to travel over there

but you know two kids two pregnancies and and Covid kind of delayed all of that. But finally, this year, this summer, we fulfilled that dream. It was amazing. I've done it myself and it is amazing. It's one of those moments you'll never forget. Yes. And to be honest, I'm not a mountaineer as such. I'm not a particularly sporty person, but it was the hiking up there. We took eight days, eight days in sharing a tent with my husband. It was actually quite funny to be doing that. And I surprised myself. I didn't know I had it in me to, you know, climb up right at the top there. well done it is quite an achievement a breathtaking achievement so yeah literally exactly so so what happened the night of the accident so it was a Friday and I had spent the day at work I remember there were quite a few projects

that I was working on and I stayed a little later than usual and as I set off to go home I remember it being quite a stormy rainy night and I didn't manage to find a cab and so that's that split decision that you make that changes your life decided to take the tube and I I was tired and I said to myself, oh, I'm just going to rest my eyes for two minutes, closed my eyes, woke up at the wrong station, dashed out of the tube, realized I was in the wrong station, wanted to dash back into the tube. And then I slipped in a puddle and tripped and fell against the closing door. I broke my nose, broke my two front teeth and then slipped in between the platform and the train.

So you fell onto the door and then broke, like you said, in your nose and your two front teeth and then slipped in between the train and the platform. So you were now on the tracks? Yeah, I was on the tracks. I tried instinctively to roll myself into the side. There's a little curve where I tried to hide into, but I was not fast enough and my right leg and my right arm got caught

and the train departed and took my limbs with it. What was going through your mind at that point? I was just surprised. I remember being actually conscious and very aware that I was in danger. I was crystal clear in my head that I wasn't supposed to be there. I remember thinking, I need to go home. I need to go home to my husband and my children. And that was the sole focus in my mind at that point,

that I need to get out of here because I need to go home and be with my family. So the train left, your arm and your leg were caught in between, but they've been taken by the train. And then what happened next? So strangely, I didn't feel any pain. So I believe that I had enough adrenaline to cover for the pain. And so I was just trying to, strangely enough, apply similar tactics than I applied when I climbed Kilimanjaro. And that was being as calm as possible, reducing my heart rate, basically get into an almost meditative state. And I think that saved me. The doctors explained it to me afterwards is that because I slowed my heart rate, I was pumping less blood through my body. That means I didn't bleed out,

in fact. And so staying really calm helped me survive. And I must have stayed on the tracks, bloodied and mangled for about 15 minutes until the next train came into the station. 15 minutes? That's a very long time to stay conscious. 15 minutes is an incredibly long time. Were you calling out for help in that time? So I did initially call for help, but I guess my voice was drowned out by the rain and by the noise in the station so that didn't work that was my plan a my plan b was to reach for my mobile phone that had fallen onto the tracks and I managed to retrieve it and try to open it with facial recognition

but because my face was was bloodied it didn't work. It didn't recognize my face. I then tried with my left hand to open the phone with the code, but it wouldn't recognize my digits because the phone was wet, because it was raining. And so I remember clearly thinking, okay, plan B is not working either. So back to plan A. And I continued shouting out and I shouted, somebody please help me. My name is Sarah and I don't want to die. And I shouted that out over and over and over again. But no one heard. I have to say at this point, TfL are conducting an investigation which is ongoing.

In fact, they've sent us a statement statement which i will read out before we carry on chatting they've said um safety remains a top priority and we continually strive to ensure that our customers are safe when traveling on our network um our thoughts are with sarah delagarde and her family following the devastating incident at high barnett station on the 30th of september it must have been a truly terrifying experience and we've offered her our full support through the Sarah Hope line um and we will talk about that in a moment um but then a second train came in what happened that's right that's right so I remember the train coming in the noise was probably what what was the scariest um and I I basically just huddled again in that inside of the platform and continued shouting out. And by some miracle, somebody heard me shouting out and called for help at that point.

And then how long were you there before paramedics and aid was able to come to you? So this is where things get a little bit blurry. I think the pain at that point took over. And yeah, that timeline is a bit fuzzy to me now. But I guess it takes the air ambulance about half an hour to get from the Royal London Hospital to High Barnet. And then, you know, setting up and paramedics trying to retrieve me from underneath the train would have taken quite a bit of time.

So you were there for such a long time, and it's incredible to think that you didn't feel any pain for that first, certainly 15 minutes, because your adrenaline had kicked in. But do you remember what was going through your mind that whole time that you were waiting i i remember looking over to my right side and i understood that my arm was gone so that that was the the realization was quite sobering at that moment saying like okay so i'm still alive my spine isn't injured my my head seems to be okay. I can still think. I can still

talk. So that's not affected. I wasn't quite sure about the leg because I couldn't feel my right side entirely. I thought my leg was fine. And the fact that it was completely crushed, that was a little bit of a surprise that I discovered afterwards. But it was really the survival instinct that kicked in big time. And I thought that when I climbed Kilimanjaro, I already reached deep within myself. And I was surprised by the strength I showed there. But this was at a whole different level.

This was Kilimanjaro times times 10 basically so explain what that is then for what is that survival instinct that we hear about that you have experienced can you explain it to us well it's it's basically the survival instinct overrides any rational thought there is we I didn't think the same way as you would on a day-to-day basis where you lay out some tasks that you need to do and then your brain adapts to that. This is so much more powerful in saying, I can't let the feeling of pain overwhelm me. I can't let the feeling of panic overwhelm me. I need to be so focused. And it's funny because the doctors I spoke to afterwards said that I was quite an extraordinary patient. Because I was so calm, I was able to give them instructions. I was able on the stretcher on the way to the hospital, that they offered more pain relief.

And I had answered to them in a very calm voice, oh, no, I'm fine. Don't you worry, I'm okay. Incredible presence of mind. It's incredible, isn't it? Because all I was thinking of is I need to make sure that my husband knows where I am. So I kept telling them, please contact my husband. His name is Jeremy.

And they asked me, do you know his phone number? And I remember telling them, oh, no, I don't know his phone number by heart. Does anyone these days? Does anyone? Not when we've got them all saved in our telephones. Yes, that's right. But, yeah, I was very, very conscious. Hang on. Not when we've got them all saved in our telephones. Yes, that's right. But yeah, I was very, very conscious. Even when I got to the operating theatre, eventually at the Royal London,

and I was getting prepped for theatre, and I remember the surgeon coming over and saying, oh, you need to sign a consent form because unfortunately your limbs are non-viable. So we need to amputate. And I remember signing that document with my left hand and saying, oh, but if you do that, are you going to attach a new arm? Because if I have the choice, I'd rather have a robot arm than a plastic Barbie arm. And the surgeon said, that's not exactly how this works. You might have to be a little bit more patient before you get over this. So you were already forward planning?

I was already thinking ahead. Even at that point where you're about to go into surgery. Do you remember how you felt when you woke up after the surgery? Yes, I was so incredibly grateful. I was so excited to be alive because there was a moment as I was waiting to be rescued that there was a really cold feeling in my chest, like a ball of ice that started to spread across the chest. And at that point, I knew I was dying.

So I told the doctor who was trying to retrieve me from underneath the train said I think I'm dying and the doctor was saying like no no no hold on there's about 100 people out here trying to save you like don't do don't die now um and so I'm very glad that I didn't very grateful to be alive there were 100 people well I don't know if there very grateful to be alive. There were 100 people. Well, I don't know if there were 100. Maybe there were 50. And you were airlifted? So the air ambulance came and rescued me. And so tell me what the extent of your injuries are.

So I have an amputation of my right arm above the elbow and an amputation of the right leg below the knee. And how's the recovery process been? It's been surprisingly fast. I didn't expect it. I think my doctors didn't expect it either. But after three weeks in a trauma ward at the Royal London Hospital, I was moved to a rehabilitation unit in South London. And yes, I was very grateful for the space there. And so I went from healing fairly quickly into rehabilitation mode where I learned to walk again. Incredibly quick. Yeah, surprisingly. But for me, I saw the distraught look on my daughter's faces and I made them a promise at that time. I said, look, girls, don't worry. Mommy's going to be OK. She'll get robot limbs.

But I'll be home for Christmas. And that was it. I was actually just thinking about your husband and daughters. I was wondering what it must have been like for your husband to get the phone call and say that this had happened and that you were in hospital. You know what? I'm pretty clear-headed when I talk to people about this experience. But every time I think of my husband in that story, that's when I start crying, basically, because I cannot imagine that phone call must have been the worst phone call ever. You would

not want to wish that on your on your worst enemy for sure. He received that phone call at three o'clock in the morning and he had no idea whether I was alive or dead, basically at that point. And so we had to wait 15 hours. So in the hospital waiting whilst you were in surgery? Yeah. Can you remember seeing him when you came? Was he there when you came round? When I came round in the recovery ward,

shortly after that I was able to see him and he walked in and he burst into tears and so did I. It was a magical moment really to be able to see him and to be reunited that was quite incredible. And what about when you saw your daughters for the first time? So I tried really, really hard not to cry because I wanted to show them the strength of their mum and just say, look, girls, it's fine. You know, our limbs are replaceable. There are some really good prosthetics out there.

And, you know, I'll be fine. So I really didn't want to scare them. Sarah, that in itself is an incredible attitude to have. Thank you. It's just the power of being able to, you know, just your whole story is remarkable because it's of the way you're telling it, that you had that presence of mind to stay calm when that happened, that you were talking yourself, explaining to stay calm when that happened that you were you were talking yourself explaining to yourself okay this is happening then when the paramedics turned

up you were telling them I think I'm dying and then here you are I mean this is it's a lot and for you to you know for you to be able to stay on top of it like this is is truly incredible yes but I mean 80% of the time I am trying to have that positive attitude now obviously you know 20% of the time I am feeling quite distraught about the situation in itself because I miss myself before the accident I you know having climbed Kilimanjaro I was so proud I felt on top of the world. I look back on the pictures and I hardly believe that it was me that did it. But then I look at myself and I see I had two arms and I had two legs. And that really makes me sad. And yeah, that's the time when I break down and cry. But I'm very lucky that my husband is extremely supportive and he gives me a big hug and tells me

everything's going to be all right in the end. You've got a very supportive, loving family. Have you developed a new perspective on life? Yes, I really I can't say it enough is, you know, our lives. We're so lucky to be alive and there's so many dangerous moments that we are not even aware of. And, you know, things can change in a split second you know that that's really what we take away from this that we have to be so happy as happy as we can be because in a moment you know that light can be snuffed out and and we would you know yeah i not stressing about the small things.

Yeah. The big things are the family, being together, showing love to our daughters, telling them that we love them, telling your husband that you love him, rather than thinking, getting annoyed about the small things that don't matter at the end of the day. Yeah. And your plans for the future now? Are you thinking about the future? What's happening that you're planning your bionic arm well yes I I'm pretty keen on you know so I had a GoFundMe page that my husband set up in the wake of the accident

there was so much generosity and outpouring of kindness that I really didn't expect. It was absolutely amazing. And we reached our goal quite quickly, and even people are donating beyond it, which is incredible. And with that, I wanted to fund the upper arm, the upper limb, the bionic arm. And I'm quite fascinated by the technology as such. There are so many different options. I had no idea this existed. And being able to fit such a futuristic technology

into my arm is definitely something I'm looking forward to in a strange way. Yeah, you'll be bionic. The messages, Sarah, the messages are coming in for you extra melanie says extraordinary story about sarah dillegard who um incredibly calm dignified and philosophical account breathtaking courage someone has said um and someone else has emailed in julia's email to say overwhelmed by this horrifying story the stuff of nightmares congratulations to sarah for her triumphant survival overcoming an ordeal few of us thank god we'll ever know um and they go on to

talk about how maybe a basic old-fashioned nokia would have helped you rather than a smartphone um some nina's email to say i'm listening to sarah story a woman's our absolute awe of the strength and positivity of this remarkable lady how humbling and life-affirming this story is and what a selfless and wonderful mother and wife she is wow thank you your story is moving a lot of people um yeah i mentioned just very quickly you mentioned in a previous interview that you might return to kilimanjaro one day day well that that is um well i would love to if i can in some way if the limbs you know are supportive of that um initiative but here's the thing i'm not sure my husband is going to say yes a second time i think he struggled a lot more than me climbing up to the top so yeah we'll have to see well um sarah it's it really has been um remarkable to

hear your story and echoing all the sentiments of the people who've been in touch you you're it's a life-affirming story you have shown incredible courage and it has been wonderful to talk to you smiling at me from your own home in front of you your very tastefully decorated Christmas tree have a wonderful Christmas yes I wish that to you and to all the listeners as well thank you Sarah um 84844 is the number to text if you'd like to get in touch with about anything you hear on the program today now have you made a decision to leave a job and felt that the ending very much uh went better than you expected? Well, in the new year, we'll be discussing the art of quitting well.

We're keen to hear your experiences. Sometimes leaving is just the right thing to do, but it's risky, particularly when energy and food bills are rising. And is it possible to leave without burning bridges or destroying hard-won networks or letting down former colleagues when you walk out the door for the last time? How did you quit well and what happens next? It's something we'll be talking about in the new year. So please get in touch with us. 84844, the number to text, or you can contact us via social media. Now, I'm very excited to talk to my next guest.

British actor Naomi Ackie takes centre stage in the new biopic, Whitney Houston, I Want to Dance. It comes out on the 26th of December. She spent a year learning to talk, sing, move like Whitney for the blockbuster film, which documents the life and career of the woman who became known as The Voice. I'm delighted to say Naomi is in the studio. I literally am fangirling sitting in front of you. First of all, huge congratulations.

Thank you so much. Naomi, this is your moment. Walthamstow to Hollywood. I know, it's weird, right? Is it? How does it feel? I mean, growing up, I kind of obviously was so aware of Hollywood and, you know, East London girl, parents, working class, like how to get there.

And it's hilarious and, like, hilarious and amazing that, you know, what, 20 years later, it's worked out. And I guess, you know, going to drama college when you did parts work coming up for women of colour, but not, you know, it's only... Yeah, it's been slow. I think, like, literally in the past, like, six years, you know, which is how long I've been working professionally,

I would say in in film it has improved a lot but when I came out at 20 my goodness it was it was a totally different um environment so let's get let's get talking Whitney yeah how did this part even come about do you get a phone call do you how much auditioning yeah so my agents called with with just you know normal like do would you like to audition for this thing I think there was a bit more excitement than other jobs before they were kind of like uh yeah this is a big one I I was very um reluctant at first to audition yeah because it was so it was too big for me that's what it felt like I was kind of like

I'm very aware of my my limitations and I was like, I don't know if I can do that. But after a lot of phone calls from my team, you know, I thought, OK, well, at least I'll just try. I'll send in a self-tape and we'll see what happens. Did you sing in the self-tape? I did. Yeah. yeah so it was a mixture of singing and then scenes and then like also an interview if I remember correctly where I kind of just you know verbatim mimicked it and started to try out some of the basic Whitney-isms that that would that then we would see in the film yes to clear this up for anyone who goes to see it which you all must do especially if Whitney meant anything to you but can I just say at this point

I cried from beginning to end oh goodness because um it's Whitney and you know woman in my generation she is just the soundtrack to my life and also we know the ending exactly so we're the minute I see you on screen singing it was just floods it's it's I think a lot of people are getting their reaction and to me like that's so lovely because it's it's the It was just floods. I think a lot of people are getting that reaction. And to me, that's so lovely because it's the love of Whitney. And I think it's reminding people, like, oh, my gosh, she was so much a part of all of our lives. Exactly why it's such a huge role to step into.

But you sing in the movie, you dance in the movie, so you're a bit of a triple threat. A triple threat. I mean, yeah, I mean, I don't know. The singing, luckily, Whitney does sing the majority of the film, but there is a little bit of singing from me too to fill in some of the dramatic beats that were needed. And then during filming for the performances,

I would just sing along with Whitney. But even that, you know, having to lip sync with Whitney, you need to, because it's not, it's just, she has such a, I mean, Powerful. Distinct. Yeah. I mean, the ultimate voice. I mean, it's just the best voice in the world.

The world. It's still to this day, I like, but yeah, it was about singing as loud as I could, really engaging with when she took her breaths in the live performances too. And just making sure that like, at least it looked like i that her voice was coming out of my mouth it was you it looked like it you were absolutely amazing amazing performance in a way you were playing two characters in this film you were

playing whitney the woman and whitney the performer so how do you approach those huge musical numbers in the scene did you enjoy enjoy performing it? I absolutely loved it. It was my favourite thing to do. And I think you're right, it is two different worlds that she was living in and sometimes they overlapped. And it was really about kind of figuring out what are the bigger themes that I noticed in her public-facing life

and then what are the themes that I noticed in her kind of private life and then trying to sometimes bleed the two together because I think that's the big thing about being such a huge star I would assume is that the contrast of your life from day to day is so like whiplash fast and you're spread so thin across the globe I mean this is a global icon that the pressure that must give, like, give you, you know, it's something really hard to negotiate, even if you are super grounded and have all the best people around you. And she had some great people around her.

Amazing people around her. One of them being the relationship with her producer, Clive Davis, who's played by the amazing Stanley Tucci. Oh, my God, he's incredible. Can we just have a moment to talk about Stanley Tucci? Yes we can whenever you like. Can we just tell anything? Just tell us all, we all want to know. He's charming, he's clever, he's very funny and you know I actually wrote him a letter.

I wonder whether he remembers this but I wrote him a letter to be like can you please play Mr Clive Davis? Oh did you? I did. Did you want, so you'd already got the part and I had already got the part and we were trying to find Clive and when I heard that Stanley Tucci was in a conversation I was like is there anything I can do so I wrote him a letter being like I think you're incredible and this is the dynamic that I see and why it's special and like I would love for us to try that out together um and yeah, I don't think it was just that, but like, you know, I hoped it helped.

I'm sure it did. It's a very beautiful thing to do, to write someone personally. Yeah, I think it's nice. And like, you know, to have the privilege of working with someone so talented that I've loved for so many years was like too good to let up.

But you see this very tender and nurturing relationship she has with him in fact Clive Davis the actual producer was produced the film yeah yeah he was involved so it was quite lovely because when I you know when I got the part and then finally went out to the US I met up with Clive and you know he he took me to his theatre room he has a cinema room and we watched Whitney's live performances and I got to sit with him and it was like it was really lovely to kind of get a feeling of what Whitney must have felt like being around him which is research in itself really is like figuring out that dynamic because what I realized during the making of the film is that even though we're from extremely different places

um we have a similar we have similarities too um and that was also just a beautiful uh thing to know like what did what did he say um i you know i think the conversation was that like our vibe was the same our essence is the same in some context we're both leos that's and that says it all i mean you you totally inhabit her it's such a brilliant performance and also just inhabit her throughout her years as well, from when she's a teenager, pre-getting her record deal, right through to her untimely death in 2012 when she was only 48. But let's have a listen to this, a clip from the film.

And this is you talking to Stanley Tucci's character, Clive, about how you pick potential tracks. Maybe. Maybe. Why? How will I know if he really loves me? I say a prayer with every heartbeat. You know, I could do something with the chorus, go up a key there, get more out of it.

Yeah, but that's not a reason to do a song. It's got to have a hook. A hook? Yeah. I'll give it a hook. So great. So much sass. I know. She's a sassy lady. So that's how they picked what tracks.

He would play her demos that other people had sent for Whitney, and then she would listen. She would listen and say, does it match my story? Like, and what can I do with it? She was such a master of that, that it was, you know, every song was like oh okay i can take that on and then she would like change it into something completely different and completely own the song now the film also portrays um whitney's romantic relationship with another woman

yeah robin who's her best friend best friend who's played by nefessa williams yeah um and then robin later then actually worked with whit, maintained a lifelong relationship. How important was it for you to get that portrayal of that friendship and that relationship right? Extremely important. You know, I think we know so much about other areas of Whitney's life, but to me, this is one of her first most significant relationships in her formative years, in her young adulthood. And sharing that part of her, I think, adds to the dimensions of Whitney that we haven't seen before.

And for me, knowing her journey, knowing the things that she went through, to know that for a big part of her life she had someone that she was so close to and had such a deep connection with that was with her, you know, helps because I think as much, you know, it's such a balance between with that was with her you know helps because I think as much you know it's such a balance between all the successes that she had but also the the difficulties that she had in her life too and and it's such an interesting life to investigate and look at

exactly and such a difficult difficulty having to you know what how portray a certain type of perfect pop princess. The first black woman to be a pop princess like that. The pressure on her. The pressure and how much do you have to change, especially back then? How much do you have to change to become somebody who belongs to the nation as a black woman, as a woman of colour? And what do you have to sacrifice and so looking at Whitney I see all the sacrifices that she made and actually even when I think about myself and my career I wouldn't be here you know without the sacrifices that she

and so many other women of color have made in the entertainment industry um and so it's very like meaningful yeah the layers that you must have gone through preparing for that, thinking about that. Yeah, just being like, oh, my goodness, like, yeah. How do you put that to one side when you step into the scene to be Whitney? Oh, you know, joyfully, I think that's the joy of being on set. It's such a focused energy. My goal really was to get the research so, like, enriching and full and the preparation really there so that when I got

on set I could just let it go at the door and then just enjoy the the acting experience which is so lovely to me how difficult was it portraying her slide into drug use yeah it was really hard because it was about creating a balance you know I think that um what I really love about the film is that it doesn't show too much of it. We don't need to see it all. But I think the kind of implying of drugs in her life was important. So finding that balance performance-wise was challenging. And then just going there. I mean, you know, when I finished, I had to take six months off, you know, to get back to a feeling of oh it's just me

nay you know and having a routine again because so much of my life for so long was Whitney and a lot of that is um if not all at all not all painful but complicated and high high intensity um it's what it seems like her life was and um you took the time off and now you're very much out there back back in that stunning Schiaparelli silver dress that you're wearing at the premiere in New York the other day yeah it's a fun one uh you looked sensational thank you so much how's family feel about it how's dad they're so happy dad's so happy he's watching it on monday there's a screening in london so that's when my family can see it but my sister hilariously like i was gonna go on my own and just you know do it and come back and she was like no i can't she's like

i have to be there so we figured out a way to get her a ticket so she could come to new york and we've got to because it's woman's day and we always do we've got to talk about your mum who you lost who would i mean she was a seamstress you thought you were going to go into fashion yeah at some point yeah she taught me how to use a sewing machine taught me how to knit i we would me and my sister were talking about that and like how happy mum is wherever she is and there's definitely a feeling of like presence in this situation where um to be honest i I think she has something to do with it. Me and my sister always said that when she goes to the other side, she's going to be really pulling some strings for us.

So she definitely has for both me and my sister. And, yeah, of course. Yeah. Absolutely. Tell me about your sister. What's your sister up to? So my sister works in post-production. She's like a manager in post-production.

And she's doing incredible. She's got two beautiful boys who are doing incredibly well everyone's well and I'm very happy about that and your life is about to go stratospheric I hope not too much

no I think I'm pretty low key to be honest with you I mean you're from Walthamstow yeah you're a Londoner yeah but are you in LA now

have you left no I'm still here I'm gonna chill here you know I'm still convinced my sister doesn't believe me but I'm convinced when I throw my glasses and my lovely little head wrap nobody will know who I am um I don't think that's gonna last very long I think your life is about to change from the 26th of December uh Naomi Aki I think you're incredible good luck with this film film. Thank you so much. Yeah, all the best of luck for the future and have a lovely Christmas. You too, my darling. Thank you.

We're now getting into the swing of the Christmas party season with many of us making up for lost time during the pandemic. Glamming up with false eyelashes is not a new trend though. In 1911, a Canadian inventor named Anna Taylor patented artificial eyelashes.

Her invention included glue-on lashes or strip lashes. According to a recent poll, eyelash extensions are one of the top beauty treatments requested by consumers. In 2019, there was a 795% increase in searches for Russian lashes. But how easy are they to use and how best to wear and care for false eyelashes? And what are the alternatives? Well, to get some top tips, I'm joined by columnist Sally Hughes and consultant ophthalmic and oculoplastic surgeon, Dr. Elizabeth Hawkes. I take my time saying that to make sure I've got it right. Welcome, Sally. Welcome, Elizabeth. I'm going to come to you first, Sally. It's not a new trend, is it?

What's the history of women accentuating their lashes? Well, in terms of falsies, it's been a very, very long time indeed. At one point, people, women were trying to pin their own eyelids with human hair. So kind of force them in with a pin um and very early on in films for example makeup artists were gluing lashes onto actresses to the point where their eyes were bulging out in irritation so so eyelash enhancements in a much less safe um and sanitary way than now have existed for you know a few hundred years i. I think in the late 1800s, women were implanting their eyelids with needles and forcing human hair into them.

So a very long time indeed, we've been trying to enhance our lashes. We've been trying to suffer for our beauty for a long, long time. It's a bit much, isn't it, that? I wasn't expecting it to be quite so shocking. What are the purposes of eyelashes, Elizabeth, apart from, you know, being able to flutter them and look? They do. I mean, the aesthetic look is beautiful

and the drama that they can provide, but they do have a purpose that isn't just aesthetic. Yeah, exactly. So eyelashes, they have to look good, but also they do have a very important role in protecting the surface and the health of our eye. So what they do is they keep dust out of the eye and they protect our eyes from particles and grit from the external environment.

So essential. And is it the first hairs to grow in a developing fetus? Yeah, so some fun facts about eyelashes. So they're actually the first hair to grow in the developing fetus. We do naturally have quite a lot of eyelashes. We have around 100 to 150 on our upper lid and around 80 to 100 on our lower lids. So we do actually have quite a lot. And importantly, in between our eyelashes, our specific glands that are completely unique to the eye,

they're called meibomium glands, and they secrete the oily layer of our tear film. And ultimately, we need the tear film to protect the surface of the eye the clear part of the eye the cornea so that we're able to see clearly um it's very popular sell isn't it to enhance your eyelashes at the moment so let's uh let's get the lowdown on what some of the methods are so you have you mentioned at the top there the original false eyelashes and i think those have developed to the ones that are most commonly used today, which is a strip lash. So effectively, you have a fake lash all on one strip.

You glue it. You wait for it to go tacky to almost dry, which is where most people go wrong, I think. And then you press them on top of your natural lashes. So I think most people are familiar with those. But in recent years... Takes me out. Can I just say, even those, basically, I'd wait for it to go tacky, Sally. I'd do the whole thing. of your natural lashes so I think most people are familiar with those but in recent years takes me out I can just say even those basically I'd wait for it to go tacky Sally I do the whole thing but even then I need to give myself at least an extra half an hour for the inevitable running of

the eyeliner poking myself in the eye before I eventually get it on yes I mean it's definitely an acquired skill um but making making the glue almost dry definitely helps, but also cutting them to size is where lots of people go wrong because most false eyelashes will be too wide for your eye because obviously you can't add bits on, so they make them too long and then you cut them to size before applying the glue. But in recent years, there have been more sort of popular kind of salon treatments. So now we see lots of

people with eyelash extensions i've seen some amazing eyelash extensions and i've seen some absolute stinkers it really is you know it really is a question of finding a very very good experienced therapist those are they call them semi-permanent you can expect them to last sort of six weeks thereabouts and each lash is glued on individually by a therapist the problem with those lashes is they're very expensive because it's a great deal of time that the therapist is giving up to glue on each individual lash or clusters of two or three and they need a little bit of maintenance so what's wonderful about them is you wake up in the morning and you look like you've got really beautiful thick curly lashes but it does mean you have to be extra careful removing makeup

not to use oil and weaken the lash bonds you have to comb them every day to make sure they're not kind of pointing out in different directions they do need some careful maintenance and because of the cost lots of people kind of wait until I don't know they have a wedding or a really special occasion in order to get them done. Here's the thing about those, though. Once you start, do you have to keep up with them? Are you just then in a whole world of false eyelashes? Well, it's certainly true that if you've been using false eyelashes for a long time, suddenly your own lashes do look woefully insufficient.

That's the problem. You think, oh, where have my sort of fluttery bovine eyelashes gone? And that is a problem. However, in terms of the safety of them, you can keep using them in perpetuity, but you must take care of them, not fiddle with them, not pull them off yourself, allow a practitioner to remove them with oil and so on, because you can really damage your lashes if that isn't done properly and you end up if you don't look after them you end up with very kind of fine and sparse lashes and then the sort of cycle continues where you feel like you have to keep doing it most people can't do it in perpetuity because of the cost basically and so we've seen an increase in popularity of a sort of halfway house where you use your natural lashes but you might have a lash lift, which is effectively a hair perm on your lashes. So it's alternatives. Elizabeth, let me bring in the doctor here to get your opinion on wearing false eyelashes.

Or if people are considering getting extensions, what should they be aware of? Exactly what Sally said. You have to take extra care of your eyelashes if you are planning to use false lashes or lash extensions. I always advise to save them for a special event or an occasion otherwise you do get into this cycle where you're used to your lashes looking very very long but importantly from a medical point of view as I mentioned those glands in between our eyelashes those meibomium glands they frequently can get clogged up and lead to a condition called blepharitis where you get a debris and even mites they're called demodex

and they're specific mites that live in our eyelashes and when they build up sounds quite gross it does you can't gross me out you can't see it's from a naked eye but under the microscope you can see them and when this debris and bacteria builds up you can get infections of the surface of the eye it can affect lash growth and it can cause a whole vicious cycle of events so really from a medical point of view all we talk about as ophthalmologists is something called lid hygiene so it means yes take extra care of your false lashes but don't neglect lid hygiene so that's by using some warm water on a cotton pad and just massage down for the upper lids and up for the lower lids morning and evening and if your eyelids are very uncomfortable you may need to

actually purchase some medicated eyelid wipes so i think if you're going to wear false lashes in order to protect the safety of your lashes and the role that they play it's really important to do the lid hygiene and as sally said make sure you're going to a reputable practitioner make sure you check the glue it's very common to have allergies to the glue who's applying them can they scratch the surface of the eye the cornea that can cause an infection are you seeing more infections since the fact the trend for false eyelashes definitely definitely seeing an increase in blepharitis in my practice i mean it's a very very common condition most people will get it anyway but i'm seeing an increase in younger patients who have it as the trend of false eyelashes is is very very popular right now

sally for people who don't get on with them though or aren't feeling brave what else can you try so you could try a lash lift which as i said before is akin to really a perm the kind of perms that were popular on hair in the 80s they just apply the same sort of process to lashes really and what that does is it kind of does an upturn in your lashes so although they're your real ones they're kind of standing more proud upwards and which gives the illusion of length and curl in combination with that lots of people choose to have a tint so they will tint their lashes darker as well as lift them bear in mind whether it's lash glue for extensions or lash dye for a tint, a good practitioner will always insist on a patch test first to make sure that you're not allergic to anything.

So, for example, I'm allergic to hair dye, so I can't have a lash tint. So it's really, really important to apply the same safety standards as if you were having your hair done but that tint and that lifting combination can actually have a really dramatic effect and almost make it look as though you're wearing false eyelashes without the associated maintenance and all the kind of faff that you described at the top that goes into that you kind of get the look with very little effort sally what we want to know is what do you go for because basically we all look to you for advice so are you someone who likes to stick on a strip individuals for the night or have you had semi-permanent what's your go-to so as you can imagine in my job i've tried literally everything because that's my job i've had the extensions i've done every possible permutation of a false lash my false lash of choice for a special occasion is to cut just the last third of false eyelashes off and just glue on the last third to the outer corner.

Then you don't have faff, you don't have movement, they don't ping off in the middle of the night. You just have the last third of the lash in the outer corners and that gives you all of the effect, none of the faff and all of the longevity. Pinging off, pinging off or sliding down the face and ending up like a moustache, the worst. It's always a good look when it's drooping into your vision isn't it elizabeth do we approve sally's given us the best option like once though and we must always take our makeup off at night

yes i completely agree with what you said sally but also just invest in a good mascara yeah i'm looking at yours yours is very good joy she's looking great elizabeth um sally and elizabeth thank you very much for that um so there you go that was proper public service broadcasting what to what eyelashes to wear to go for this christmas season thank you thank you um now over the christmas period it's estimated that more than 950 000 disabled people across the uk will need paid in home care the narrative surrounding carer workers has often been one of self-sacrifice and pity for having to work over Christmas. But what is it like as the person who needs care

to share your Christmas Day with people who aren't your family? Well, Lady Marie Dawson Malcolm was a physical training instructor in the British Army, a mother to a six-month-old daughter, and was preparing to take part in her first london marathon when she sustained a c5 complete spinal cord injury after a fall meaning she requires 24 7 in home care and lady marie joins me now welcome to woman's hour thank you describe what exactly is a c5 spinal cord injury well um when i had the injury and I fell, if you can imagine the vertebrae at

the back of your neck, fifth one down, that's where the damage was done. And what did it mean for you? It meant that I have no sensation from my chest down, no movement in my hands, my fingers, can't clench a fist, can't feel anything, I'm doubly incontinent, I am not able to regulate my body temperature, I have to get support from carers to do everything. So they wash me, they dress me, they prepare my meals, they put me in my wheelchair, they put me to bed. Once they put me to bed, I'm not able to move without them supporting me. What sorts of adjustments did you have to make mentally going from someone who was a physical instructor in the army to someone who needed round-the-clock care. This happened to you 30 years ago. 30 years ago, 1992.

And next month, the 12th of January next month, it will be 31 years. And it was challenging, very challenging, because one moment you're physically able to do everything yourself and after that someone has to do everything for you. Everything that was once private was open to all and sundry you can imagine how difficult that may be and I went through the phase of being angry feeling that well why can't I do things for myself why am I not improving I assume that once you got into hospital they will fix you because I didn't know anything about spinal cord

injury that I assumed that once you broke your neck you would die but obviously that wasn't the case and so going into hospital and then about three months being told that oh well you're not going to be able to walk again at first I thought well okay I always wanted to retire by the time I was 30 because I was 29 but this was not the way I wanted to retire and you had a baby and of course my daughter was six months old so that alone was challenging so then being discharged home to have two carers for me have to find nannies for her. And at the same time, I still remained with my ex-husband then as well. But then we separated after when things got worse. Because I thought, well, it's about time.

Things are not going to get better. So it was difficult, but I've managed to come through it all. You have, with the help of carers. Yes. How do they support you day to day well in the initial when i first sustained the injury and i was discharged home i had carers who um were from an agency and they lived in and they did everything for me they they are my hands and my feet. So I do the thinking, I do the directing of my care. They carry out the tasks. And it was strange having strangers in my home because not being able to do anything for yourself,

not being able to get around as you would like to and then having to rely on complete strangers to do things for you, it felt daunting. And intimate things for you. Yes, very intimate things because getting new carers in, for them, particularly about personal care, getting them to wash you,

to see parts of your body that kept covered normally and then having to trust that they're actually doing things the way you would like to do because that was very particular still very particular about my personal care and how my parents and hygiene and not everyone's the same and sometimes I mean told them too fussy but that's my life that's how I like things done I think you the key word you've used there is trust the trust you have to have and you've had the same carer now for you I mean you have different carers on rotation but someone for 20 years yes I've had someone for 20 years do they become like a member of the family? Definitely, yes. And I prefer that. I don't like changes.

I don't take changes very well. So if someone's going to be working for me for only three months, that doesn't work for me. So I now am the employer. So I get funding via the NHS to then employ my own carers. So I recruit them myself, I employ them myself, I train them to an extent to do things the way I'd like to do it. And so having them for a long period is very good

because they get to know you, how I like things done, and do it the way I'd like. Well, you know, since becoming injured, you studied and received a BA Honours in Law, an MA in International Human Rights and Development. You're an accessibility advisor on a Rights and Development. You're an accessibility advisor on a number of panels. You're a consultant on Eastenders. I mean, you're a corporate partnership coordinator for the Spinal Injuries Association. I just want to big you up a bit here. So obviously

you need people who can help you, who can ensure that you are able to do those things, to get to your desk and get on with the work yes exactly because what i see the carers as an extension they're there to help me to live my life as independently as possible so how are you going to manage over christmas how does that work well over christmas my carers are still going to continue their rota as it were um the ones who have got there, some that are going on holiday. So the agreement between all of us is that they will cover each other. And I know that they would prefer to be home with their family, but it's part of their job to be there with me. So how do you weigh up whether you should ask your own family to provide care over Christmas and then having your or having your carers work over Christmas? No, family. No, no, no.

I live my life independently of my family. My family, I believe, they treat me like bone china. They think I'm still delicate. So whereas my carers see me as a person, an able person, I just need some support. And obviously you have a very good relationship with the carers that you have with you now. Yes, the carers that I have with me now, yes.

We're not saying that we don't have disagreements, but we discuss it and then we move on. The narrative around Christmas is often one of self-sacrifice, giving up their own family time to make sure they help you. But for you, it's very much their job. Yes. And it's a very important job. Very, very important job. Thank you so much, Lady Marie, for coming in to speak to me today. I want to wish you a very Merry Christmas. Thank you. And thank you for sharing your story. And thanks to all of you who've been in touch with the programme. Lots of you still messaging about Sarah's interview at

the beginning of the show. All credit to the lady who lashed her leg and arm. What an amazing woman she is. Indeed, she is. That's it for me. I'll be back in the new year hosting every Thursday and Friday.

I want to wish you all a very Merry Christmas. Enjoy the festive break. See you in 2023. That's all for today's Woman's Hour. Join us again next time. Hello, it's Chris Van Tulleken here. My brother Zand. That's me. I'm here too. And I are back. Now, in series two of our Radio 4 podcast, A Thorough Examination, we are on a mission to find out whether or not people can change. It's called Can I Change? We're thinking about all

the things we want to change about ourselves and each other. Wait, what? I want to be more confident. I'd like to be less of a people pleaser. I'd like to be more of an extrovert, but then sometimes I also think I should shut up. A quiet confident man. That's very attractive. Yeah, I'd like a quiet confidence. I think everyone has something they'd like to change about themselves. Change is important to me because I think it's going to improve the key relationships in my life.

And one of those is you, Zand. You can change whatever you like. Just don't make me do it again. Well, nonetheless, Zand, we are going to speak to some experts who are going to guide us through the idea of change the last time you made me do this it changed my life for the better yeah but i still don't want to do it and if you at home think there's something stuck in your life that needs changing this might be helpful for you to search for a thorough examinationough Examination with Drs. Chris and Zahnd on BBC Sounds. I'm Sarah Treleaven, and for over a year, I've been working on one of the most complex stories I've ever covered. There was somebody out there who's faking pregnancies. I started like warning everybody. Every doula that I know. It was fake.

No pregnancy. And the deeper I dig, the more questions I unearth. How long has she been doing this? What does she have to gain from this? From CBC and the BBC World Service, The Con, Caitlin's Baby. It's a long story. Settle in. Available now.