Woman's Hour - Republican women standing for Congress, Rhianna Pratchett, Chrissy Teigen's miscarriage

Episode Date: October 2, 2020

We heard about women Democrats standing for Congress last week, and today we discuss Republican women. In 2018 their numbers in the House of Representatives dwindled to just 13, but now a record number are entering the November elections either as incumbents or challengers, so what made the difference and what are their chances of winning? Jane speaks to Olivia Perez-Cubas from Winning for Women, an organisation set up in 2017 to encourage more conservative female candidates, and Sarah Elliott, Chair of Republicans Overseas UK.Eleven-year-old Emma finds her life turned upside down when her father tells her he wants to become a woman. This is subject of a new Danish film ‘A Perfectly Normal Family’. The fictional story is based on the director Malou Reymann’s own experience. She joins Jane along with her father Helene.Award-winning video games writer Rhianna Pratchett speaks to Jane about her first book Crystal of Storms which aims to get young girls into the world of fantasy and gaming. Her book is part of Fighting Fantasy, a series of interactive children’s books where the reader takes on the role of the protagonist and chooses their actions by rolling a dice. Rhianna is the first female guest writer of the series.The model Chrissy Teigen's raw grief at her miscarriage has been very public. Some have been sympathetic; others question whether social media is the place for such things to be shared. Jane discusses with Ruth Bender Atik, national director of the Miscarriage Association.

This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK. I'm Natalia Melman-Petrozzella, and from the BBC, this is Extreme Peak Danger. The most beautiful mountain in the world. If you die on the mountain, you stay on the mountain. This is the story of what happened when 11 climbers died on one of the world's deadliest mountains, K2, and of the risks we'll take to feel truly alive. If I tell all the details, you won't believe it anymore. Extreme, peak danger. Listen wherever you get your podcasts.

BBC Sounds. Music, radio, podcasts. Hi, this is Jane Garvey and welcome to Woman's Hour, Friday the 2nd of October 2020. Good morning and it's not the most important thing in the world right now, but no, I didn't get any cake. I came in extra early, all gone of course, because of the current situation. Very few of us could be here yesterday for Jenny's last programme. If you missed it, do listen via BBC Sounds. It was really brilliant. Some fantastic highlights of her epic career on Woman's Hour. So that's available on BBC Sounds. The programme, of course, very much goes on today. We're talking to Rhianna Pratchett, award-winning video games writer, and the first

woman now to write one of the Fighting Fantasy series. Rhianna with us a little bit later. We'll look too at Chris E. Teagan's very public miscarriage. Too much for some people, but we'll be asking whether it will really help to increase understanding. That's a little later on Women's Hour today. Let's start then with America, with American politics. Last week, we discussed the record number of Democrat women running for Congress. Today, we focus on the Republicans. There are currently 101 women in the House of Representatives. Just 13 are Republicans. That looks like that number is going to go up. is media spokesman for Winning for Women, an organisation set up in 2017 to support more Republican female candidates. And Sarah Elliott is chair of Republicans Overseas UK. Let's talk first to Olivia. Good morning to you, Olivia. Good morning. And how actually we've got to start,

of course, with the health of President Trump. How concerned are you? Yeah, I mean, I think it's very serious. I think this is kind of a testament to how serious and aggressive this virus is. I think we need to pray for a speedy and complete recovery for both the president, the first lady and all those affected. Well, so say all of us, but perhaps critics might be suggesting he could have taken it all a little more seriously. Yeah, I mean, I think I think we'll be hearing a lot of that in the coming days. I think more than anything, it's just a very serious moment for America, for American history. There are certainly going to be questions about what this means for the upcoming election, for the debates, you name it. I think first and foremost, though, we just need to focus on his recovery.

Yeah. You say a wake-up call. Do you think some people in the States, perhaps supporters of Donald Trump, will be reassessing their approach to the coronavirus this morning? I certainly hope so. I think everyone should be taking it seriously. It certainly looks a bit bleak. The latest statistics from America, deaths now over 207,000, over 7 million cases, and cases of COVID are rising in more than half of all American states. Sarah Elliott of Republicans Overseas, this is pretty desperate stuff, isn't it? Well, yes. I mean, it's very hard to control a virus once it starts going.

And, you know, I think for your listeners, it should be reminded that governors have a lot of say as to what rules and laws and regulations are put in place for COVID. We have devolved government to 50 states. So it is more complicated and different areas of the country are affected more than others. So there are a lot of decision makers in regards to trying to stop this disease in the US. So you don't think the blame lies entirely with the White House then? No, I don't. And you can look at the way New York State handled it. Well, they sent, you know, infected nursing home patients back into the nursing home and they've had one fifth of all deaths in America happened in New York,

the two times more than any other state. I mean, there's... But there's no denying... You can't simplify it. No. Well, we can certainly focus on the man who is the leader of the country, the head of state, and somebody who has been accused by many, many people, not the leader of the country, the head of state, and somebody who has been accused by many, many people, not least in his own country, of simply refusing to take the situation seriously enough, and frequently not wearing a mask and deriding those who do. I'm sorry, I disagree with that. Because, you know, first off, it was the World Health Organization in China,

who put everyone on the back foot all over the world. And I think we're all learning as we go. And I think he took this very seriously from the beginning. And then, you know, he actually closed the borders to China where he was called a xenophobe. And the Democrats were like, no, go out and mask to Chinatown, et cetera. I think that in terms of the mask wearing, he wants to project leadership to the American people. He's on a campaign trail. He wants to show people that he's showing up. His staff routinely test for COVID. So that's also one of the reasons why he wasn't always wearing masks.

But he did wear a mask where he felt was necessary. But now they've tested positive for COVID Covid and that's the point. I mean, just very briefly, Olivia, do you think the election will be able to go ahead? I think so. I mean, it's I think there are so many questions still. I think, you know, hope it's the hope of everyone that this he is asymptomatic or mild symptoms that this is over in a two week process. And yeah, but he's an elderly chap and he's not in the best of fitness, is he, to look at him? Yeah, I mean, a lot of questions still, a lot of hypotheticals. We're just learning.

Yeah, well, we've had one of those years in which we've all been learning all sorts of things. Let's focus on the subject that you were originally booked on the programme to discuss, which is getting more Republican women into Congress. First of all, Olivia, why are there so few right now, just 13? Yeah, I think that's a really good question. So we saw, obviously, in the 2018 midterm elections, we saw that a record number of Republican women ran for office,

but so few of them actually got elected, and so few of them were able to. And so few of them were able to actually make it out of their primary elections. So over at Winning for Women, we kind of asked ourselves, what's the biggest hurdle here? And I think what we saw is that a lot of Republican women, there are so many, there's no shortage of them, but many often lack the support that they need early on in the primary stage. And by support, crudely, do you just mean money? In large part, money. In large part, recruitment efforts could be stronger. And just kind of that fundraising network, that support system,

an institution within the Republican political ecosystem, if you will, that supports them. Right. And why are people not willing to put their money behind these women? I think it's not so much not willing, but perhaps a lack of awareness. I think oftentimes we kind of joke that, you know, women need to be asked multiple times to run for office. They need to be convinced to run for office, whereas you have to convince some men not to run for office. They need to be convinced to run for office, whereas you have to convince some men not to run for office. So I think it comes from, you know, a whole gamut of reasons where women aren't running, they're not being recruited. Once they do run, they lack support that they need to get it even out of that first primary hurdle. And they just needed a system that would come and support them from start to finish, from A to Z. Right. Which is why we launched our Super PAC,

which is actually the first Republican Super PAC dedicated solely to electing women. And how many Republican women have you got running this time round? So we actually have a record number of women running. That's 228. The previous record was 133, and that was set back in 2010. But I guess what we need to focus on, Sarah, if you don't mind, is how many are in winnable seats? The previous record was 133, and that was set back in 2010. But I guess what we need to focus on, Sarah, if you don't mind, is how many are in winnable seats?

Yeah, I mean, that's really important. But, you know, I mean, 77 women did win their GOP primary. And that was, you know, a large portion of the candidates running. I think that we're you know, I think there are some actually really interesting seats out there to watch. And right now I'm I'm watching very closely to in particular. One is Karen Handel, who's in Georgia's six, which is was former Speaker Newt Gingrich's seat. Right. It's been a Republican seat for decades. And the first female from Georgia to be in Congress, Karen Handel, won it in 2016 or 2017

in the most expensive house race in American history where $40 million was spent in that house race. It was incredibly competitive. Wow, $40 million? $40 million. She won it. She's the first female to represent Georgia in the House, in the US House. She's a Republican. She lost it in 2018. It was one of those districts that the suburban affluent districts that went that went against Trump or against the Republicans in the midterms. So now she's trying to win it back. It's incredibly close. It's a toss up. It's in the top 10. Trump won that district by a little over a percentage point. Republicans Overseas UK is making phone calls into that district to campaign and to help get that woman elected.

She's also up against the sitting congresswoman, who's Lucy McBath. She's a Democrat. She's a woman there. So we have two women facing off each other in Georgia 6. The other race that I'm excited about is Kim Klesik. She's an African-American young Republican woman running in the inner city of Baltimore. And she is setting she's setting the news on fire right now. She's high energy. She's pointing out the way that the Democrats have just run the inner city of Baltimore into the ground. She says it's time for new energy. It's time to roll up our sleeves and it's time to make people independent and self-reliant and get out there and let's do some economic zones.

So these are two really dynamic races to watch. And also there's in Texas, Genevieve Collins, she beat four men in her primary. I'm glad. Thank you for drawing our attention to those names. And we'll certainly keep an eye on them. But I think a lot of people, a lot of our listeners, Olivia, are going to be interested in whether these Republican female candidates are keen on running because of Donald Trump or in spite of an incredibly unique brand. They're running for a reason. Many of them are, some are small business owners, some are currently state representatives. We have one woman, Marionette Miller-Meeks, who is a veteran and a doctor, whose biography and resume is particularly useful given the coronavirus. So I think each of these women is running for unique reasons because she feels that she's qualified.

Yeah, but I suppose what I'm getting at is there are some people in Britain who are frankly puzzled by women supporting President Trump. Yeah, I mean, I think... I'm happy to answer that. Well, you can in a moment, Sarah, but Olivia first. Yeah, there are some women who... Trump is a huge net positive in their district. And there are some women who are slightly turned off by his rhetoric. But while they may not like his rhetoric, like the policies and the positions that he stands for. And I think, you know, districts across America are very different.

And each of these women is running a strong campaign. You wanted to answer that, Sarah, briefly, if you can. Sure. I mean, I think that these women love their country and they have a philosophy, a conservative philosophy that they think is best to improve the livelihoods of the citizens of their district. to turn against President Trump, bearing in mind all the stories, many of which, of course, he denies, about the way he conducts himself, allegations about his tax affairs, and still they believe he's the man for them. Because, you know, he's doing a good job with his policies and his actions.

And so people are looking at what he's doing. Listen, when the Democratic women fell in line with Bill Clinton in the 90s, listen, you know, you have to take what you're given. I'm not suggesting any of this is simple. Yeah, right. But, you know, for Karen Handel, for instance, she's a pro-life Republican, and she really supports the president on his support for the March for Life, defunding taxpayer abortions overseas. You know, he's the most pro-life president we've had. And so she's going to support the president because she supports what he's doing. Thank you both very much. Enjoyed talking to you both.

That's Sarah Elliott, the chair of Republicans Overseas UK. And you also heard from Olivia Perez-Cubas, media spokesman for Winning for Women. That organisation set up a couple of years ago to increase the number of Republican female candidates in American politics. Now, you will not have escaped the incredibly difficult and raw images of Chrissy Teigen on social media, the images of her miscarriage.

And she's with her partner, John Legend, in one very painful photograph. Chrissy is holding the child that she miscarried. John Legend is holding her hand. These are really, really difficult images for many, many people to absorb. Some have been sympathetic, of course. Others, though, are questioning today and over the last 24 hours or so, whether social media is the right place for such raw, raw grief. Ruth Bender-Attick is from the Miscarriage Association. Ruth, these are painful images. What do you make of them? Morning, Jane. They are indeed painful images, but they are painful images of an incredibly painful situation that these couples find themselves in.

And I think it's understandable that many people find them distressing and that many people feel that it's not appropriate to share them on social media. On the other hand, that decision really rests with the people involved with Christy and her husband. And I think what felt right for them to do may well not feel right for other people, but it was right for them. And certainly judging by the comments that we've had on social media and for that matter on our phone lines, many, many more people have had positive reactions to it than negative in the sense of feeling a great deal of empathy and also feeling grateful that this experience has been in some ways shared, that awareness has been raised as to just how awful it is to lose a baby at any point in pregnancy.

Because it is actually so, so common. Miscarriage is horribly common. But I think, I mean, we know it's around one in four pregnancies that ends in a miscarriage. It has to be said that most miscarriages happen within the first 12 or 14 weeks. And it's clear that this loss came at a much later stage. And we don't know the number of weeks Chrissy had got to. And also she doesn't define it as whether it was a miscarriage or a silver. What it is though is the loss of a baby and whether that happens very early in the pregnancy

in the first few weeks or later on, for many people that is the loss of a baby and the life and all the hopes and dreams and expectations that you had. And they are a couple, Chrissie and John, are a couple who very much live out their family life in public. I mean, I don't believe for a second that every aspect of their life is out there, but they certainly share a lot of it. And by doing so now, they're following in their normal mode of practice, I guess. Absolutely. And that's what they choose to do. And I think it's interesting when we talk to people about their experience of pregnancy loss,

many of them actually are anxious about sharing their thoughts and their feelings, never mind photographs, but just how they're feeling because they think others won't understand or might not say the right thing. And so it is helpful to have these kind of feelings expressed publicly because it makes the rest of us think. Do you think that there are, well we know, there are still some people out there who always feel, and I've never understood this, that they have the right to question the way other people mourn. And I've seen quite a lot of that actually on social media about this particular incident. What would you say to somebody, perhaps who's got a good friend who's had a miscarriage recently or is having one right now, how can you help? I think the best thing that you can do is to say little and listen a lot. So to say to somebody something as simple as, I'm sorry, or I'm sorry for your loss, or I'm sorry for your news, and then just to listen. That can really, really help. But don't judge whatever else you do. It's, you know, it's easier for us to say don't judge than to do it.

But you're right. That's absolutely right. Because what's right for you isn't necessarily right for them. Thank you very much indeed, Ruth. And we'll put a link to the Miscarriage Association on the Woman's Hour website. I know that plenty of people have been reading social media this morning and a lot of people feel that those images were triggering and were deeply upsetting to themcarriage. So you can let us know what you think at BBC Women's Hour on social media or you can email the programme via our website. Now, don't forget, the Women's Hour 2020 Power List is called Our Planet and it's about those women, those brilliant women, who are doing so much work, much of it voluntary,

in order to safeguard their environment. It could be the planet or it could, in order to safeguard their environment. It could be the planet, or it could be their street, their local park. I've been looking at some of the suggestions from you, and there are some brilliant ones. There was a wonderful email I was sent the other day from a woman who wanted to suggest her friend who looked after hedgehogs who'd been injured, often, by lawnmowers. And it sounds, when you express it like that, relatively trivial, but it just seemed like such a wonderful, wonderful idea. So that's the sort of thing that we've been getting from you.

I think it's fair to say we have had hundreds. We probably don't need any more. But the Women's Hour Powerless 2020 Reveal programme, which I'm really looking forward to, is going to be on the 16th of November. Next Tuesday, I'm going to be talking to Lucy Siegel, to Professor Alice Larkin, who is a professor in climate science and energy policy, and to the gardener Flo Hedlum, who features on Gardener's World. They're some of our powerless judges this year. And on Tuesday, they're going to be answering your questions about the environment, climate and just ways to make our lives greener.

So if you have any questions for that really good list of experts, please do pitch in now on social media at BBC Woman's Hour. I know there have been questions already about diet, about whether becoming a vegetarian is the way forward. That's the sort of thing we'd love from you for next week. That's Tuesday at BBC Women's Hour your questions about how we can live more sustainably and we'll get some expert advice for you all on the programme next Tuesday morning now a film I watched the other night if I'm honest with you I actually didn't know what it was about

until I started watching it and I really enjoyed it I thought it was a fascinating look at something that let's be honest does dominate the headlines a little at the moment. The film is called A Perfectly Normal Family and it's about an 11-year-old girl, Emma, whose father tells her that he wants to become a woman and it's based on the director Malu Raymond's own childhood experiences. Malu joins us from Denmark and so too does her father, Helen, who is in France. Malu, first from Denmark, and so too does her father, Helen, who is in France. Malu, first of all, good morning to you. Good morning.

Tell us a little bit about your family life. Well, so, yeah, that's... It's a big question. Yeah, but it used to be very normal. We used to be a family of four, my older sister and myself and my mom and my dad. And my mom was a woman and my dad was a man. So we looked like most other families until I was 11. And suddenly it turned out my dad was actually transgender. So then he transitioned and since then has lived as a woman.

And she's called Helen. And she is still my dad, although she as a woman and she's called Helen and she is still my dad although she's a woman and um yeah that's the very brief story it was an excellent uh summation um it's the it's the sentence of course the sentence that stands out is she's still my dad yes yeah I think there's a lot of confusion about that because obviously we're used to our fathers being men and mothers being women but that's just not the case with us and and I think we've had to sort that out for ourselves because no one else kind of could mirror that or very few people could and and I think we had bad advice like for example now she could become our auntie, which was just not true for us emotionally.

So we just had to find our way in it. And I just have to say that a father can be a woman and be a very good father at the same time. Yeah, we should explain this is set, what, 20 years ago? It is, yeah, in 99, which is when my dad transitioned. And I think it was important to set it there because obviously the whole view on what it means to be transgender has changed a lot, especially in the last five years, maybe. So there was a naivety to it and a kind of people didn't know what it was that meant that this family was very alone in what they go through that I wanted to be part of the story.

Well, I'll come back to you. Thank you very much for that. And let's talk to Helen. Helen, good morning to you. Good morning. Tell us a little bit about how you felt when you first saw the film. Well, it was strongly emotional and I was happy I saw it with Malou. Together with Malou, we were the only ones who were able to see it a few months before it went on screen in Denmark so so that was a very very strong emotional setback to somehow somehow to a period that obviously has been tremendously difficult for

all of us so so it was a was in one way it was beautiful to do it together with my daughter. On the other hand, it obviously was a huge emotional elevator, if I may say. Yes, well, I'm sure. Did you have any misgivings about the film being made? Oh, no, not at all. No, no. I actually was very supportive. I was more worried on my daughter's behalf whether she really was ready to go out with the story especially for her first major movie and and but once i had seen towards the end the manuscript and i could see the, at least, that was absolutely beautifully said. And obviously not my story. It was her story.

And I think that is important to me. And it's probably even more important to her. Yes, I think I'm glad you emphasise that. And I think it is important, Malu, that this is very much seen from the perspective of a young girl. And in the film, and obviously I appreciate it's not all true to life, you are confused and angry. And, well, there's a lot going on for you, isn't there? Yeah, for sure. And I think that's why it was important for me to take that perspective,

because those were the emotions that I knew and that I could kind of like portray truthfully in a feature film. So also taking the perspective of Emma meant that it would be possible to kind of have the difficulties of dealing with what it means to be transgender and having a father who undergoes this rather than having it from the person who undergoes the transition. There is a scene in the film when you all go for family therapy and you can't bear to look at your father because she is dressed as a woman and you have a scarf around your head. Did that happen? Well, so it was drawn from two different situations. One was we did go to some family therapy, which I refused to take part of. So I quickly stopped. And the

other one was when I actually saw Helen for the first time as a woman, which was after, I think, I didn't want to see my dad for six months. So when I did finally see my dad again, I really wanted to and at the same time, I really feared it. So I ended up regretting it while she was on her way to meet me. So I just saw a scarf lying there next to me and I wrapped it around my head because that was my 11-year-old way of dealing with something that was too massive to cope with emotionally. Helen, what do you remember about that? Well, I obviously remember the same thing. And it was a very tough situation because, as Malou just said,

we hadn't seen each other for many, many months. And we were a family in distress, and as many families are when they go through divorce. But this one obviously is even more special situation. And especially for my daughters, I was extremely nervous of losing them. And well, that was one of the most difficult times I ever faced. But I'm so happy that in the end, well, it worked out fine. Malu, how did it change? How did you change from that person who wrapped the scarf around her head to the person you are now?

Well, in many, many ways. I think one is that it's very, very important to let people be who they are, that rather than living up to a norm of what something should look like and what something should be, we really need to be true to ourselves and also let other people be true to themselves. So I think that really changed my perspective on what it means to be a human being. But I suppose I want to get a little bit more inside your head, the head of that very young girl at such a difficult time in your life and in your development. What was it like for you when you did see your dad dressed as a woman yeah yeah I think it first it was like the first thing I saw when I took off the scarf was pink snakeskin trousers which my dad was wearing and and I just thought oh my god

this is gonna be as horrible as I thought but then I looked up at her face and looked her into the eyes and then I could see that this person sitting next to me was the same person I had known my whole life and it was my dad and of course it wasn't quite as simple like it was still a long journey after that and dealing with so many difficult situations but I think like that you can see in a person's eyes that it's still the same person means that it still is but that she of course had to be who she was in the film your older sister finds it easier to cope with um and i think that is true isn't it she did yeah she did she she was older but also i think um maybe it was easier for my older sister and my dad after the transition to share some of the feminine things that they could do together. So they shared some interests that I just wasn't interested in, where I instead felt like I lost something that I had with my dad.

Well, yes, I was going to ask about that because you are portrayed in the film as what we in Britain call a tomboy. You were a football fanatic. Football was something you shared with your dad. That was your thing. Was that true? No. So I was never really that into football. But we did share. I was a tomboy and we did kind of share that. Like it was less specific, but it was definitely also less gendered. And suddenly when my dad transitioned and became Helen, she was very, very into everything that was feminine in order to kind of find herself as a woman. So suddenly she was into all these things that I didn't care about a bit.

And that was confusing because then who is this person actually? Yeah. And that took a while to kind of, for her to find herself and to be relaxed enough to kind of enjoy things that doesn't have to be extremely feminine. I think that this is the brilliance of your film, actually, which I should say I do think is really good because you are so nuanced in the way you approach that.

And Emma's story is very powerfully told. And your mother, Malu, what about her? Well, so obviously it was also very difficult for her. And I think she did lose her husband in like we ended up not losing our dad, even though we were afraid of it. But but my mother obviously did lose her husband. And I think that's that's another aspect to it, which was really difficult to kind of go through a divorce that is obviously very painful. And at the same time, deal with losing a person that is still there. Helen, obviously this was a long time ago now, speaking purely in terms of the way things have changed. But you had been wrestling with all this in your head, I think, for a long,

long time, hadn't you? Well before you made the announcement to your family. Yes, definitely. This has been going on basically throughout my whole life so so but i was very good in uh keeping it very close to me and actually not even myself sometimes able to to get down to to that specific thing uh that i felt so so for many years, more than 30 years actually, I basically didn't really have it up close to me. And when I first told my wife that this is actually something that I sense I could not keep any more away from me then yeah that was about just about Malou's birth about 10 years ago 10 years before my transition things obviously became quite difficult for all of us yeah but yeah and are you significantly more at ease now, Helen? Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. The transition obviously has been extremely difficult,

as Manu just said. Also, you know, when you're completely insecure, when you're kind of basically insecure about everything and how can you be a father, a good father, when you're in such a complete difficult situation, then I think we have to come out of this in a beautiful way, since both my daughters are very close to me, and we're living our lives having this as a common story, and basically all of us have had good lives since.

So that's obviously a very positive feeling. Yeah, but I dare say it's at times been difficult to achieve. Absolutely. Yeah. Malu, just very briefly, who do you want to see this film? Yeah, so I made the film so that you can see it across generations it's quite a straightforward film it is yeah really wanted people to watch it like grown-ups to watch it with their children obviously kind of older children but I I my experience here in Denmark is that from 10 12 years you can watch it. And then you'll get something different out of it

than someone who is 40. But I think it is really possible to watch it across generations. So I hope that families will go and watch it together. Thank you. Really, really interesting to talk to you both. That is the film director, Malu Raymond, and you also heard from her father, Helen. And that film is called A Perfectly Normal Family.

It is released in some cinemas today. It's also streaming on modern films and on other digital platforms. Now, I've been really looking forward to talking to our next guest, Rhianna Pratchett, the first woman to write one of the Fighting Fantasy series of books. Rhianna, good morning to you. How are you? Good morning, Jane. I'm very well, thank you. It's called Crystal of Storms. Now, this is a world that will be much loved by some of our audience, though not all. So I just want you to outline it for them, everybody, please.

It's a fantastic world, and I really do mean that. So take us there. Thank you. So it's part of the fighting fantasy world, which has been going since the 80s and was started by Ian Livingstone and Steve Jackson. My story takes place on a floating archipelago of islands called Pangaria, which exists inside a giant tempest over the Sea of Tempest, which is between the main continents of the fighting fantasy world. And you play a new recruit in the Skywatch, which are kind of like the police force for the islands. Yeah, because you are part of the story. You become the story, don't you? Yes, absolutely. But I mean, to go back to that first thing I mentioned, why are you the first woman? What's the significance of that? Do you think perhaps we're in danger of making too much of it? What do you think? I'm not really sure. I'm so used to

being one of the few women doing something because I've often been involved in quite male-dominated industries like video games, as you mentioned, that I actually didn't think to ask because it's just a normal for the kind of things I get involved in. And obviously there are a lot of very successful women writing fantasy and there are women that are designing games. More in the minority compared to male designers, for sure. But I think the intersection between women who are writing fantasy and women who are designing games is probably a little bit smaller.

So maybe that was why. And have you made, would anyone who is an aficionado of the fighting fantasy books, would any reader understand or even recognise or even get an inkling that the author here was female? I'm not sure, really. I mean, I'm not, I don't think I really write in a particularly female way, but I'm not, again, I'm not really sure what that would be. I just write as me. So everything sort of is very my kind of particular take on things. I want to know where you get inspiration from.

I mean, there's some fascinating stuff out there. I know that you were particularly intrigued by a Chinese cloud formation. Tell me about that. Yes, it's one of those stories that seems to do the rounds every few years. And it popped up again in my social media. And basically, it looks like a flying city in the clouds somewhere over China. It looks like buildings and skyscrapers. It's very, very strange. And no one quite knows whether it is a cloud phenomenon or a hoax. But it looks so amazing, so fantastical.

And I had that in my head. And I had some ideas from another fighting fantasy book, Gates of Death, which was written by the first guest author, Charlie Higson. And he had a little story about the player riding with goblins on this kind of magical flying vehicle. And I thought, that's really interesting. I'd like to explore how that kind of technology came about. Okay, so and you had license to do that.

You just took a little nugget from Charlie Higson's book and you went with it. Yeah, I built a whole city, a whole archipelago of islands around this idea of what I call, what's commonly called in the fantasy space, technomancy. So somewhere between technology and magic. Yeah, that is a strange world. I mean, it's not, is it similar to steampunk, which we've discussed on Woman's Hour a few times over the years? I mean, steampunk is less magic and more steamy.

So technomancy takes the technology of the goblins and the elemental energy of these creatures called Stormborns, who are the ones that harvest the storm crystals from the other tempests on the Sea of Tempests. The real world at the moment is both terrifying and extraordinary. I wonder to what degree we need your stories and your world. What do you think? Sorry, I'm riffing on this because my head's spinning with everything going on in the world at the moment, but carry on. Well, I think we've always needed fantasy to not only escape from the real world, but as a way of dissecting what's happening in the real world. Like, fantasy isn't as divorced from the real world as we might think. It is a lens through which we

kind of analyse our world and how we live in it. Obviously, your dad is Terry Pratchett, the late Terry Pratchett. Your childhood must have been, well, I was going to say unusual, but actually I don't think he got huge material success until you were a bit older. Is that right? Yeah, that's right. I mean, the first time I kind of thought, hey, my dad is doing something cool, was actually when he was serialised on Woman's Hour.

Equal Rights was serialised on Woman's Hour. Woman's Hour was sacred to me. It was something my mum listened to. Still is, I should hope. Yeah, I think she's out there. And yeah, I thought, oh my gosh, if he's on Women's Hour, he must be doing something really interesting. And so I taped it off Women's Hour

and I used to listen to it over and over again. And it actually had a character that my dad had been quite openly saying was based on me when I was about eight years old. So I think I was extra fascinated by that. And what did that character do? So that character was Esk. So she was on her way to become a wizard, which was unheard of for women on the Discworld at that point.

Because Discworld only allowed boys to become wizards? Oh, yes. Yes. In the canon, only boys could become wizards. So Esk accidentally is gifted a wizard staff. And she, along with other characters like Granny Weatherwax, who's a very famous character in my dad's world, she eventually journeys to Unseen University to pursue a life of wizardry, or try to. Yeah, I mean, this is just, it's an extraordinary creativity that you have.

And obviously people are bound to wonder to what extent it is genetic. Do you think it is? Or do you think he just gave you the self-belief that allowed you to just go and do it and think it? I think the self-belief is very important. My dad didn't teach me to write. He taught me to think. And he taught me to be a human being who is interested in the world

and people and stories. And it has a mind that is open to wonder. I love that. A mind that is open to wonder. Right. What's next for you? Oh, I've got lots of things in the works. Narrativia, which is a company that my father started along with myself to guide his multimedia rights to his books. We're doing some adaptations of his work with motive pictures and endeavour content.

There's lots of exciting things coming out there we can't't talk about it yet, but it's very exciting, and I've been writing away at one of them this morning. How much writing have you already done? Oh, lots. What, today? Well, just while I was listening. Well, not today, just while I was kind of listening to the show, I did a few bits and pieces in the background.

Right. Well, that puts me very firmly in my place. Rhianna, you're absolutely brilliant. Thank you very much for talking to us. That was great, actually, the opportunity to chat to Rhianna Pratchett, daughter of Terry, although that's probably not

the most significant thing about her because she's clearly hugely successful in her own right. Crystal of Storms is the name of her book. You may, like me, be a complete stranger to this world. And I can't, I didn't read the book because the book is simply not for me.

But I'm actually really jealous of people who do love this stuff because particularly right now, it must be fantastic to be able to escape to a world of all sorts of weird cloud formation islands and tempests and floating castles and demonic harpies. Oh, actually, no. I mean, that is my world, isn't it? The book is out now, and as she illustrated there,

there's a lot going on in Rihanna's head. How wonderful to have that kind of imagination. Just fantastic. Now, back firmly to planet Earth. And we had a number of emails from you on the subject of Chrissy Teigen and John Legend and their very public miscarriage and the images they shared. Kim says, I haven't seen these images. And whilst I do respect her decision, I have made the choice not to look for the image on the internet. It would bring back too many memories of my own tragedy when I lost my baby at 22 weeks into the pregnancy.

It's some years ago now, but the stillbirth has left me with too many painful memories, not least because I had to go through the birth process. Despite insisting for two weeks that something was seriously wrong, doctors finally agreed to give me a scan where the awful truth was finally revealed. I've never before discussed this with anybody apart from my husband, but hearing there is help out there, maybe I should finally address the appalling fact that I lived for two weeks with my baby still and silent inside me. Kim, I really do hope that you take this opportunity to get some help and find someone that you can talk to in confidence

who can support you because that you went through something really, really, really difficult. And perhaps Chrissie Teigen's decision to go public is going to be the moment when you get some help and support. I hope you do. Jennifer says, earlier this year, I had a miscarriage at 11 weeks and the day after I found out I had to go to hospital for a surgical removal of the remains of pregnancy. That's a terrible expression. I know it's the one they use, but it's not good, is it? Jennifer says, I was upset and scared about my first ever general anaesthetic and your question about what other people can do reminded me about how wonderful my Auntie Julie was. She made sure I wasn't alone before or after the procedure. She listened to me talk about how I was feeling but also kept me

distracted when that was what I needed and she got me home safely with some treats for the tough few days afterwards. I think what Chrissy Teigen has done is important for encouraging people to talk about something that can be very painful and I hope she has the fantastic support that I do. From Nicholas, please don't forget that miscarriages and stillbirths are tragedies for men as well as women. I accept that men will never know what it's like to carry a baby and thus to lose one but that doesn't mean that miscarriage and stillbirth isn't devastating for us. In fact, as somebody who went through both multiple miscarriages and a stillbirth with my wife, I would say that no one can say, I know what you feel like. They can say I've been there. That is why how each person reacts

to the loss of a baby must be for themselves to judge. From Helen, many women now withhold the fact that they're pregnant until after 12 weeks. If they miscarry before this, they often have to bear the loss in private and don't get support. This can also lead to inappropriate well-meaning remarks from work colleagues unaware of why someone has been off sick. I miscarried at 15 weeks and at 10 weeks. Friends and relatives fortunately knew I was pregnant and were able to offer support but I do still bear the sorrow of these events and I am 65 now. Thankfully I now have two children and it's important to be open about being pregnant and not to feel ashamed about having miscarried. Thank you very much.

We had a number of very thoughtful emails on that subject. So thank you all. Matthew says, I just really enjoyed that interview with Rihanna Pratchett. I'm inspired to buy my first fighting fantasy book since the 80s. It is, he emphasises, for my kids, of course. Yeah, right. Believe that one, Matthew. Selina, I agree with you.

The real world might be scary, but that's why we do need stories. Rhianna was right. We need books filled with vivid colour and magic and imagination and other worlds and all the good stuff. Malcolm, excuse me for pointing this out because I feel awkward contradicting his daughter. But I first encountered Mr Pratchett's work when doing The Colour of Magic

and it was read on Woman's Hour by Nigel Hawthorne back in 1984 when I was doing my A-levels. In those days, you actually had to order his books from the bookshop, says Malcolm. OK. Contradicting his daughter. I don't know how we feel about that as the hour of woman. She was very young, you know, Rhianna then.

So, in fact, I'm not even sure, would she have been alive in 1984? She was alive, I'm told, but she'd been very young. We'll let that one lie on the file, Malcolm. No, you're very welcome to email the programme. Another listener tweets, I started reading My Child, the Tiffany Aching series at bedtime. I'd missed them the first time round, and it's great having a more grown-up story to read with him.

Loving the granny weather wax cameos. Right. And Tansy says, My mum heard Equal Rights on Woman's Hour when I was in primary school and promptly went and got me the book from our local library. Whole family have been big fans ever since. And I took up a career in equality law. That is brilliant. That shows the power of the hour, doesn't it? Thanks to everybody who contacted us this morning. I know it's not easy for any of us in the post-Jenny Murray era. PJM is what we're calling it on Woman's Hour. But we'll carry on.

If Woman's Hour presenters were monarchs, I'm under no illusions about this. Jenny is Queen Victoria. Emma Barnett will be Elizabeth I. And basically, I'm Lady Jane Grey. Let's just hope I'm not executed. But I'm here until the end of the year, and we're going to enjoy it. Oh, yes, we are.

The Woman's Weekend bit is tomorrow afternoon, just after four. And then the programme, of course, continues next week. Looking forward to it already. I'm Sarah Treleaven, and for over a year, I've been working on one of the most complex stories I've ever covered. There was somebody out there who was faking pregnancies. I started, like, warning everybody. Every doula that I know.

It was fake. No pregnancy. And the deeper I dig, the more questions I unearth. How long has she been doing this? What does she have to gain from this? From CBC and the BBC World Service, The Con, Caitlin's Baby. It's a long story.

Settle in. Available now.