Woman's Hour - Ruth Wilson, periods and concussion, Ashley Storrie on BBC comedy Dinosaur, sewing for mental health

Episode Date: April 18, 2024

Ruth Wilson explains why she’s running this year’s London marathon for an Alzheimer’s charity, following in the footsteps of her Father who ran the first London marathon in 1981. During the Women's Rugby Six Nations, the Welsh Rugby Union is using a new technique to assess the impact a player's periods can have when they suffer a concussion. It's the first time data on concussion and periods has been gathered collectively and the hope is it'll help players adapt their training if necessary. Jo Perkins, Head Physio of the Welsh women's squad explains the research. ITV's Kate Garraway has taken to social media to express her frustration at her local council still sending post to her late husband, Derek. What can you do to make post-death administration simpler and less distressing? Jessica is joined by founder and CEO of the Good Grief Trust, Linda Magistris, to give advice. Ashley Storrie is the star and co-creator of a brand new BBC comedy series called Dinosaur. It centres around Nina, whose sister has just announced she’s getting married to someone she’s known for six weeks. Ashley joins Jessica to talk about why it was important to her to play an autistic woman, as she is autistic herself, and how writing the series is her dream job.And can sewing improve your mental health? Following Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe’s interview on Woman’s Hour about how sewing helped her while she was imprisoned, Jessica Crighton hears from other keen sewers about the impact it’s had on their lives.Presenter: Jessica Creighton Producer: Olivia Skinner

This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK. I'm Natalia Melman-Petrozzella, and from the BBC, this is Extreme Peak Danger. The most beautiful mountain in the world. If you die on the mountain, you stay on the mountain. This is the story of what happened when 11 climbers died on one of the world's deadliest mountains, K2, and of the risks we'll take to feel truly alive. If I tell all the details, you won't believe it anymore. Extreme. Peak danger. Listen wherever you get your podcasts.

BBC Sounds. Music, radio, podcasts. Hello, I'm Jessica Crichton. Welcome to the Woman's Hour podcast. Good morning and welcome to the programme. Now, as you've just heard in the news bulletins there, we have some very exciting news for you this morning. Nuala McGovern will be the new presenter of Woman's Hour. Massive congratulations to Nuala. Mark this in your diaries

because she'll be starting on Monday the 13th of May. And I know she's really looking forward to speaking to you all again and being with the Woman's Hour listeners every week. We'll also be having a little bit of a reset to the Woman's Hour week as well. So Nuala will be in the hot seat Monday to Wednesday and Anita Rani, who you all know, of course,

will present the show on Thursday now, as well as her usual Friday and Saturday. So the Woman's Hour listeners will be in very safe hands indeed. Now, speaking of people in new roles, actor Ruth Wilson, star of shows like Luther and The Affair, may be about to take on her most challenging role yet when she runs the London Marathon on Sunday. She's raising money for an Alzheimer's charity after her dad's diagnosis and will be running alongside her three older brothers. And as we'll talk about, it's brought out her competitive side. And not just one, but two actors for you this morning as comedian Ashley Storey discusses her new BBC series Dinosaur.

We'll be speaking about the power of representation because Ashley, like Nina, the character she plays, is autistic. Plus, with concussions in sport becoming an important issue in recent years, new technology has allowed the Wales rugby team to assess how the menstrual cycle impacts when a player might suffer a concussion. We'll be speaking to the physio at the forefront of this new research. Also, do you sew? Sewing has gone from being a necessity to becoming a way to look after our mental well-being. We'll be diving into the cultural history of sewing a bit later in the programme.

And now you might have seen this recently on social media. Kate Garraway, host of Good Morning Britain, she posted a plea on her social media to her local council for help because she's been receiving what she calls unsettling post addressed to her husband, Derek Draper, who died three months ago. Now it's something that I'm sure so many people can relate to and have experienced themselves. Have you been through this? Having to deal with all manner of admin tasks when someone close to you passes away. How did you cope with it all? Was there anyone or was there any service to support you? Get in touch with us.

You can text the program as always on 84844. Text will be charged at your standard message rate. You can WhatsApp or voice note us as well on 03700 100 444. Be careful of the data charges. You might want to use Wi-Fi if you can. We're on social media at BBC Women's Hour and you can email us through our website. We'll actually be speaking to a woman

who set up a charity to help those after a loved one has died, and she'll be offering some really useful advice for you. But to my first guest, the actor Ruth Wilson is instantly recognisable for her roles in Luther, The Affair, and playing her own grandmother in the 2018 BBC drama Mrs Wilson.

But on Sunday, she may be a little bit harder to spot than usual because she'll be one of more than 50,000 people taking part in the London Marathon. Ruth will be running alongside her three brothers and her nephew to raise money for Alzheimer's Research UK following her dad Nigel's diagnosis. Marathon running isn't new for the Wilson family it seems. Nigel himself took part in the very first London Marathon way back in 1981. Ruth a pleasure to have you on Woman's Hour. Good morning. Hello good morning. So it

sounds like running the marathon, marathon running is in your blood. Was it an easy decision to come to? It's not in my blood. I mean, it was quite random. I think probably one of my brothers suggested the idea. And then we all tried to get into the ballot. None of us managed to achieve that. And then I thought, well, look, I could try and get through on the charity Alzheimer's Research UK. So we did that and we all got on and it's amazing. We thought, we didn't think we'd all make it actually to the start line. And it's incredible, five of us running. My nephew is Theo, he's 18, so he'll be one of the youngest running okay and then yeah my three brothers as well so it's gonna be a family affair you didn't think you'd make it because the training

would be so difficult busy schedules I've got dodgy knees dodgy knees so we didn't know if our knees would make it they've made it well done You know, over five months of training. Wow. And it's actually really amazing to see you get stronger and fitter and faster. You know, you have to do three runs a week and then on the Sunday do a really long run and they get longer each week. So it's amazing. It's kind of been a really great thing for all of us to do. And now that it's so close, only a few days away, what stage you at what do you do to the in these last three days to prep it's called carb load oh that sounds good to me a lot of eating bread and pasta and oh it's quite revolting but anyway that's what we have

to do now it's one little run left just to you know keep your legs moving but that's it now okay get it ready get all your you know your bits ready for running yeah so you I imagine you've had to you know get your outfit ready uh you've got your music playlist sorted all those kind of things I've been doing my playlist that was doing that last night what are you listening to I've got lots of mixed things it's very eclectic my music taste so I have a bit of kind of modern jazz which has got those of afro beats in it nice that's upbeat yeah yeah then I have some kind of trumphant uplifting music for the last half an hour which I think I'll need which make me cry too but although I've got a combination of things I might just chuck it all away and listen to the atmosphere

and apparently that's what keeps you going really Especially down that final stretch I suppose you're going to want to hear the crowd cheering you on aren't you? Yeah I think so Now you're running this

with your three older brothers and being the youngest does it bring out your competitive side? I often find when I go back home and I'm with my siblings it all goes back to when we were children uh yes it's definitely um brought out the competitive

streak in all of us i think that we're all hoping just to get over the line but there's definitely um desires to reach certain targets and we've all been on tracking each other's training so we can see how each other are doing but Oh, wow. I think it will get competitive out there. A bit of healthy competition will get us around there. But my dad did it in a very – so my dad, like you said, he ran the very first marathon in 1981, and he ran it in three hours, 15 minutes. My goodness me.

Yeah. For a non-professional, that is incredible. Yeah, he vowed never to do it again. Okay. yeah for a non-professional that is incredible yeah he vowed never to do it again okay I think he hit the wall in the last few miles I'm not surprised will you get anywhere close to that time do you think no no no I'm not likely to get anywhere near that but one of or two of my brothers might be attempting it so we might have to pick them up on the way if they collapse but yeah we'll see what happens brilliant and how has your father's diagnosis affected you and and the rest of the family um it's been you know it's really

sad it's he's done amazingly actually he was diagnosed a few years ago and we're coping as a family as well as anyone could my mum has been extraordinary with him and they're a real team, the two of them. They've learned how to communicate with each other and learn what sort of dad needs and what he values. He's still, you know, he's a big sportsman. So he loves watching anything that's on TV, rugby, cricket, everything else. He still exercises twice a week

and he's got a peloton in the house so we be very active um but it's it's you know it's a really cruel disease because he's very aware of um what he can't now do and communication is very difficult um so those things are really difficult for everyone to deal with but we're doing as well as we can. And there's loads of help in the community and sort of groups that meet up and see each other. So I think there's lots of people that suffer with this. Alzheimer's is one of our biggest killers in this country. And we're on the edge of finding a cure and or being able to sort of hand out a cure. I think there's two more drugs at the moment

which are being we're waiting to be approved but the more support and help we can put into research and more money we can put into that the closer we get to either a cure or certainly something that can help reduce the effects of Alzheimer's and dementia. Yeah, of course. And you saying there that your dad is still very active, will he be able to come out and support you on the day, do you think? He'll be there. Yeah, my mum and dad will be there, plus many other family members. So we're going to have, yeah, a whole crowd, Wilson crowd somewhere. He'll be so proud, won't he? Because obviously he's run it himself and then seeing his children do it as well will be such a special moment for him yeah I think there'll probably be a few tears somewhere along the line and probably at the end definitely so he sounds like a very sporty person did that rub off rub off on you as a child when you were growing up were you a sporty person as

well because of your dad yeah we all were I mean I did more sport than acting to be honest and that was played netball and tennis and swam and all my brothers played rugby and played cricket and football so yeah we were very sporty that was the kind of main activity in our household. Yeah. I went to uni you uni and started drinking and then activities and I started and I found the theatre and that's where I went instead but I've maintained you know sport and exercise is vital for me I do it at least five times a week um it's just it's good for the brain as much as anything else um but you know my job it's nice to have some kind of routine. That becomes my routine.

Yeah, so later in the programme we'll be talking about sewing as a way to calm people, as a way of using it as a mental health protector. I suppose sport and exercise, fitness, can be used in the same way. It sounds like you use it that way as well. Yeah, it's a form of meditation in a way because you zone out and you're you know um pumping blood around your body and it sort of clears the day if i've had a day at work i'll go into the gym afterwards but sewing it's very interesting lots of actors so on sets really and it's a way of keeping them

distracted in a way or just you know rather than thinking about the next scene you're sitting around waiting a lot of time so it's a good way just to sort of almost meditate in between takes it's a good way of keeping yourself present as well um tell me though because i've never i've never run a london marathon i don't imagine i ever will run a marathon how grueling is the training it's run after run after run isn't it yeah it's pretty awful my toes will never be the same really what's happened to them I don't know uh I've got my two second toes are slightly missed you know slightly disformed now or I don't know what's happened but they'll be fine um but yes it's grueling it's it's long and it's, you know, it's those long runs, which are sort of three hours long.

But I have used it to explore London. I've gone all around the parks. I've gone to Woolwich Tunnel. I've gone to the Hackney Marshes. Wow. And where have you been starting from? The other side of London, I'm assuming. No, it's from Tower. I live near Tower Bridge, so around there. So I've sort of gone east often. But it's been that's been great but it is gruelling it's three or four runs a week and it's hard getting out on those runs but once you're on it you start you know you get used to it it feels good afterwards. Now just a word on your acting because it's just been announced very recently that you will be starring alongside Emma Thompson in an adaptation of Mick Herron's Down Cemetery Road.

He's, of course, best known for his spy thriller that was adapted into the TV drama Slow Horses. Exciting announcement. How are you feeling about that new role and starring alongside Emma? Yeah, it's great. It's very exciting. We don't start shooting till June. So we're still in the sort of prep stage. But no, I's great. It's very exciting. We don't start shooting till June. So we're still in the sort of prep stage. But no, I'm thrilled. I love Slow Horses. And I love Mick Herron's books. They're really smart, very dry witted, and kind of land on something quite interesting about sort of corruption very close to the home or very domesticated. This one is slightly different to the Slow Horses series in that it is set in Oxford, in the suburbs of Oxford. And my character is a sort

of bored housewife who becomes an amateur sleuth and starts finding herself in the kind of the dirty underworld. And she hires a private detective who is the sort of emma thompson character so so it's the two of them you know start sleuthing away but it's fun and dry-witted just like the snow horses show so no i'm thrilled in the same team so that's very it's a great brilliant exciting creative team yeah brilliant uh thank you so much ruth for coming on to the program now you're running on sunday we'd love to have you back on on monday to to let us know how it went see if i got around yeah well no we have every faith that you'll make it to the end but you know you can tell us about the experience i might be on a stretcher i might be lying down i'm not sure i'll be sitting in my bed

that's fine okay that's absolutely fine. Any way that you can get to us will be absolutely fantastic. Ruth Wilson, it's been a pleasure to have you on to Women's Hour. Thank you so much. Thanks for having me. Now we're halfway through rugby's Women's Six Nations, which once again has seen record crowds at some of the games. Off the field, though, there's been an interesting development

in regards to concussions. The Welsh team are using a new technique to assess how the menstrual cycle impacts when a player might suffer a concussion. It's the first time data on concussion in periods has been gathered collectively. Previous research has suggested hormone variation may lead women to suffer higher rates of concussions

as well as having more severe and prolonged symptoms than men. I'm joined now to discuss a bit more on this by Jo Perkins, head physio of the Welsh Women's Squad. Welcome Jo, good morning. Morning. First, can we just establish what is a concussion? What are the symptoms? How do we know when someone is suffering with concussion? So there's a whole host of symptoms that you might struggle with. You know, and typically in rugby, it's from a collision. So there might be pain, headaches, a classic, but there can be more severe signs of a loss of consciousness, seizures. And then, you know, as time goes on, you know, profound mental health symptoms as well as well you know people with longer concussions often describe anxiety or depression sensitivity to light

irritability so you know there's there's a whole host and everyone presents a little bit differently as you say rugby is a collision sport so how big of an issue are concussions in women's rugby so there's there's there's mixed evidence and we're still um you're trying to gather gather more research to you know understand how many concussions women are having and so surveillance is a massive part of what we do um and you know there's there's some studies that show women have more rates than men but potentially that's due to underreporting in men as well so that's our first port of call is to just find out how many women are suffering with this.

And then obviously, as you've said, we're linking this in terms of a menstrual cycle to look, is there a predisposition? But what we do know at the moment is there seems to be a link in what we call the luteal phase. So the point after ovulation where progesterone is slightly higher, there seems to be a trend that if a woman sustains a concussion at that point, symptoms may be more prolonged and symptoms may be more severe. Okay, so as I understand it, this is the first time that concussions and menstrual cycle have been tracked at the same time side by side. So those are the results that you're finding that

perhaps after the ovulation, it might be more likely for women to suffer a concussion. Why is that useful to know? So again, it's this first point of a research. So it may be that this is just a trend. And as a first book tour, this is reassurance for a player. We understand why perhaps your symptoms are more prolonged and we can start to look at trends. trends so it's it's more of that point understanding the symptoms you know the return to play protocols are already there they're already robust but it just gives us that little bit more of an individual understanding for that player okay this might be why your symptoms are more prolonged and it might be why they're worse than perhaps a previous concussion or

someone else who's had a concussion at a different phase and it just allows us to manage them individually and that's the most important part here. Yeah of course and how exactly are you tracking this because I think there's some new technology involved isn't there? Yeah so Vodafone Player Connect app is a tool we've been using over the last 18 months which allows us to you know just in real time track a player's readiness to perform as such so it allows us to track details of their sleep the quality how long they've slept for their energy their mood their muscle and joint soreness and that's exactly what we do with the men as well um to give us a real-time information about how ready are you to perform is there anything else going on in your life or is the training need to be

adapted do we need to alter your nutrition but But what the Vodafone app allows us to do is correlate that with their menstrual cycle phase. So one allows us to see is there specific trends for that player? So some players have regular cramps or regular fatigue a certain cycle during actually their period. Others actually have more marked symptoms around ovulation or beyond when they suffer with things like constipation or fatigue or low mood or low sleep. So it allows us just to see, is there trends for that player?

And again, one that might be reassurance, like this is your normal and we put strategies in place. Or perhaps there's something new going on either medically or outside of the sport environment that, again, we can just help support them with so the app gives us it sends us that real-time information um you know whether it be through through the app or through text messages so again we can we can just chat with the player and make sure they're okay basically and just going back to this point of

the the difference in gender when it comes to concussions is there a reason why women and men experience different symptoms following a concussion? So yeah as progesterone and oestrogen are higher so in that second phase of our menstrual cycle again that point after ovulation where progesterone is higher we think then if a female experiences a concussion then and then doesn't go on and have a pregnancy pro progesterone drops really, really quickly and suddenly, which causes the next period. That sort of sudden drop in hormones, that sudden rise in inflammation is thought to add to the prolonged symptoms. So it's not that women are having more in that phase, but the symptoms are more severe. And from these results that you're gathering and this data that you're collecting, is the hope that perhaps you can help a player when they're currently playing, as it is today?

Or is it a hope that perhaps in the future, when they've retired even, that you can lower the effects of what a concussion injury might do to them later in their lives? I absolutely think it's both. You know, we know enough now to understand what the menstrual cycle might be doing. And I think, you know, the hope is that the research will add to that wealth of knowledge and potentially alter what we're doing in the future. It might not. It might be that, you know, our pro stores in place are exactly what we still need to be doing. But with any research, the more information, the better.

Yeah, of course. Now, Jo, as I'm sure you know, the women's rugby has been in the news a fair amount in the last few months, not just because of the Six Nations, but because of this debate around the size of the ball. World rugby considering the use of a smaller ball in the women's game. And I suppose it all stems from the fact that they've looked into research and said typically an adult male hand is larger than an adult female hand. Therefore, the game might be better if you reduce the ball size in the women's game.

It seems to have really divided people who are rugby fans and who are even, you know, not even rugby fans, just standard sports fans. What do you think about this? Where do you stand on this debate? Oh, you know, I've heard lots of different opinions like you and, you know, from a variety of reasons, hookers who are saying, well, if we change the size of the ball, that might change how I throw the ball in because I'm used to this size.

But even from a resource point of view, you know, people who haven't got the same funding as perhaps we have at the WRU say, well, we can't afford to buy a whole new load of different size balls. So it's, you know, I'm the physio. It's not my place probably to have an opinion, but it's certainly, I think, going to be a long debate between players and doubling bodies.

Yeah. Have the players mentioned this to you? Are they talking about it? Are they taking it seriously? Oh, you know, I bodies. Yeah. Have the players mentioned this to you? Are they talking about it? Are they taking it seriously? Oh, you know, I think they're interested. You know, what, is there going to be a change? But I think that whatever happens, they'll go along with it and adapt to it. But I say, I don't think on the whole,

the players are too stressed at the moment. Yeah. As someone like yourself that's worked in both the men's game and now in the women's game, what really would you like to get your opinions on these types of things? Because there's been other suggestions that perhaps women could play on smaller pitches. There was a response by former England player Maggie Alfonsi, who tweeted that she doesn't really want the women's game change. She believes these changes coming in to just the women's game will make the women's game be perceived differently

as lesser than the men's game. What do you think? Should the women's game, should the dimensions, should the field, should the ball, should it all be changed to perhaps make it easier for women to play the game? Yeah, and I think I saw Maggie's tweet and I think that's exactly the point she wants to make is that we don't want it to be seen to make the game. Yeah, and I think I saw Maggie's tweet and I think that's exactly the point she wants to make is that, you know,

we don't want it to be seen to make it easier. You know, anything we do needs to be to support, you know, females. So if it's to change, you know, how easily the game can be played for them, you know, to make it a better game. But who's that for? Is that for the spectators

or is that for the players? Because the players are happy and this is all the players have known so you know i probably agree with her there that i think we haven't got a problem um the players are happy and let's just keep giving them the support keep giving them the resources and and the rest will just come i think yeah and uh women's rugby is going from strength to strength as i mentioned uh six nations going very well and uh record crowds for some of the games. And speaking of the Six Nations, I know you're in the thick of it at the moment, which is great that you've been able to give us some time to talk to us.

But we have to talk about Wales. I know it's been a tough couple of weeks for the Wales team at the bottom of the Six Nations table as it is. But I'm sure there's a hope from you and the players that you can perhaps get back to winning ways oh absolutely you know it's um a lot can change in a week can't it and we've got yeah a brilliant group of players everyone's working incredibly hard um Johan and his team as well so you know keep with us things things will change and we'll get back to winning ways hopefully quickly yeah I saw that the Wales captain, Hannah Jones,

wrote an open letter to the fans explaining the frustrations with, you know, being at the bottom of the table and perhaps not performing as well as they would have wanted. What do you make of the gap between teams at the top of the table, like England, that seem to be thrashing teams week in, week out, and those teams that are

struggling? Is the gap getting bigger? Are some teams being left behind? No, I don't think so. I think Ireland performing the way they did on the weekend, you know, shows everything about the way women's rugby is doing. You know, they've now had the resources and the support and they're thriving compared to last year. And it's just going to take some time. I think we'll see differences every campaign in the Six Nations for a little while because we've got pathways that need to be progressed and it's something we're putting a lot of funding

and a lot of support into. And, you know, watch this space over the next five, ten years because, you know, the DAP certainly will close, you know, where England and France have had more time, you know, and a pathway structure. So, you know, it certainly will, it will progress. It will, it will. And it is. Jo Perkins, thank you very much for coming on to Women's Hour to speak to us.

Jo Perkins, head physio of the Welsh women's squad, Wales. Next match in the Six Nations is against France. All the teams are playing this weekend and you continue to watch across the... I'm Sarah Trelevan and for over a year I've been working on one of the most complex stories I've ever covered. There was somebody out there who's faking pregnancies. I started like warning everybody. Every doula that I know. It was fake. No pregnancy. And the deeper I dig, the more questions I unearth. How long has she been doing this? What does she have to gain from this? From CBC and the BBC World Service, The Con, Caitlin's Baby.

It's a long story, settle in. Available now. BBC. Now at the beginning of the programme I asked you about how you've dealt with the admin tasks that you've had to take on after someone close to you has died. And lots of you have got in touch. This one comes in to say, my husband died suddenly, aged 41, but was in remission with cancer at the time of his death. He had annual oncology checkups and I took the time to call his oncology department to leave messages informing them of his death. Yet we still received a letter to say he'd missed the appointment four months later. Someone else here, Catherine in Stoke-on-Trent says, my husband died and was used to dealing with tax, national insurance, etc. I had

no idea what I'd have done if this had not been the case. Annoyingly, some services continued to bill both of us long after my husband had died and after many attempts to stop them. Another message here from Julian in London. My father died last year. My mum is still, seven months later, trying to agree the insurance claim, finalise probate and settle his affairs and their pensions at each stage, liaising with dozens of customer service departments, case references and people not trained to assist the bereaved. It has taken every ounce of her strength and resilience. Thank you for everyone for feeling comfortable enough to get in touch. You can continue to text, WhatsApp and get in

touch with us via social media and email us on our website as well. And that's exactly the next topic that I want to discuss with you because when a loved one passes away, one of the less talked about issues, as we're hearing about here, is that the nearest and dearest can face is admin. ITV's Kate Garraway, whose husband, Derek Draper, passed away earlier this year after complications caused by COVID, posted about this on her social media. She wrote about the, what she calls, unsettling post, making demands that she was receiving from her local council in North London and claimed that she couldn't get through to them to sort it out.

And as we're hearing from you, our listeners, she's not alone in this. So how do you deal with post death administration? Linda Magistris is the founder and CEO of the Good Grief Trust, a charity that helps people after a loved one has died. Good morning, Linda. Good morning. Firstly, your reaction to what Kate Garraway has said. I imagine that often you speak to many people going through this. Well, yes, absolutely. And sadly, I lost my partner like Kate actually 10 years ago, which is why I started the Good Grief Trust. So we have over a thousand charities and support services under our umbrella. So please do, those listeners who have been through a bereavement

locally recently or many years ago, please do know that you can find support under our umbrella. But this issue is sadly not a one-off. There are hundreds of thousands of people going through a bereavement every year. And unfortunately, there is a huge disparity across the UK with our banks, with our utilities, with those insurance companies, not really understanding the impact of loss and grief. And I think this is the problem. We really do need to standardise the support and the access to those services for those people who are grieving. Because as you said, people are phoning up and saying they've lost somebody and can they shut down a service or a bank or a utility or perhaps a driving license and they are asking to speak to the account holder and no matter how many times

people are saying there seems to be a script and there seems to be this computer says no which is so ridiculous and so distressing and unfortunately it really can trigger some very serious implications for those people who are bereaved. So why do you think there is no system in place to stop these automated letters, these automated messages? Well, to be honest, I think there's just a huge lack of awareness in general anyway. So we co-founded the All-Party Parliamentary Group on Bereavement Support. So we work with government very closely to try and improve and standardise these systems anyway, across the whole board, you know, with employers, compassionate bereavement in the workplace, etc. So we really do need to hone in. I mean,

one of our ambassadors, Greg Wise, you were talking earlier about Emma Thompson. So Greg, when he lost his sister, Claire, says that he phoned up, and they kept saying, we need to speak to Claire. And he said, well, I'm really sorry'm really sorry but she's dead you know how many more times do we need to speak to people and they have to understand but as I said there is a huge disparity many many organizations and utilities and bank companies do actually have that empathy and understanding but it's not across the board and unfortunately if you are one of the unfortunate ones who telephone somebody, it really, really can be incredibly distressing. But just to say, so please do go on the Good Grief Trust. We can hold your hand virtually through every step. There are organizations like the Tell Me Once service, which can actually contact your banks for you and the DVLA and other government organisations. And there are

other services that can help you, but it really is sadly a postcode lottery. Yeah, tell us about those other services, because I think so many of our listeners have been through this themselves, and they'll be interested to hear that. Yeah, so there are services on our website, please do go to them, that will stop the mail. So they will stop that direct mail that just keeps landing on your doorstep with the name of that person who has died. So that is a brilliant service. Tell Me Once is a government-run service, so you can go to them. They will contact people like the DVLA. It's quite limited though. So unfortunately, there will still be the banks, the utility companies, the insurance companies, and those random places that you contact every day when you're living,

but sadly, when you die, they don't know. And we do need more empathy and compassion and understanding of the impact and have that more of a gentle approach really, to have a brown envelope land on your doorstep when you've lost that person in your life, you've lost your future, means nothing. But when you open it and you see the name of that person, it's incredibly distressing. We have to stop this.

I wonder whether the whole issue has been exacerbated by the fact that so many of our accounts now, we're talking about energy DVLA everything is online and so everything is almost run by computers rather than humans does that make a difference yeah absolutely it's all automated isn't it and sadly those those letters of computer generated and they will just come out and they will land on your doorstep so we have to find a way. I mean, there are ways. So as I say, some companies are doing it brilliantly. They have

somebody on the phone that has been trained, that does understand the impact. And there is a dedicated department for those people who are bereaved to telephone. And that will make such a huge difference in those early stages of your bereavement. You really do need that kind, compassionate response to your grief and that can be done. Let's all do it. Let's join together. Let's join forces and make sure that we all offer this one standardised, really, really brilliant support for those people who are bereaved. Linda Magistris, thank you very much for coming on to Women's Hour. Linda is the founder and CEO of the Good Grief Trust. We did contact Kate Garraway's local council, Haringey, but we are yet to receive a statement.

And even as I was speaking to Linda there, your message is still coming in about this subject. Someone here saying, I had to deal with admin when my mum died when I was 24. The worst was the bank not believing that she had died and telling me to prove it. Helena says, I had to deal with all the admin when my son died, including having to cancel theatre tickets, which he had brought for me for Mother's Day. I had to cancel his bank account, utilities, student loan, on top of arranging his funeral. It was such an awful time and I would have been grateful, so grateful, if there had been a service that could have helped me. Thank you to everyone getting in touch again. Really

appreciate the honesty and the bravery that you're showing in talking about something that we don't talk about very often. You can continue to get in touch via text, via WhatsApp and social media as well. Now to something completely different entirely, a comedy that will make you think, warm your heart and have you laughing out loud all at the same time. Dinosaur is a new comedy series on the BBC, starring and co-created by Ashley Story. It's based in Glasgow, excuse me, and centres around Nina, who, like Ashley herself, is autistic, and whose sister Evie announces she's getting married to someone she's only known for six weeks. Let me give you a flavour of the punchy humour. Take a listen to this.

I've never felt this way, Nina. He's my person. But mum and dad are not going to be happy about this. We're so happy about this. Now, we know that it's soon, but we're thinking summer wedding. Lovely. That's it? What? She's marrying some man that none of us have ever met, and that's all you're going to say?

Dad, what if he chokes women at the weekend? Does he choke women on the weekend? No. He's in a feminist book group. Well, there you are. We'd only known each other six months when we got married. Yes, but that was in 1986 when everybody was stupid, and you thought that the feathered mullet was

an all right hairstyle for men. Oh, I loved my feathered mullet. Oh, and he's never looked so good. He looked like Princess Diana. How long did Romy and Juliet know each other before they got married? 24 hours. They were pretend and then they killed themselves. Ashley Story playing Nina in new comedy Dinosaur.

And Ashley joins me now. Good morning, Ashley. Good morning Ashley. Good morning. Great to have you on the programme. So you are a co-creator of this series but as with all comedies there's a funny story behind how you actually became the co-creator. Tell us about that. I originally auditioned for a part in a pilot written by the wickedly talented Matilda Curtis and they were looking for an English girl in her 20s and I said what about a Scottish lady in her 30s would you like to try that and they said yes and I got a part in a pilot we filmed it I had zero creative

input I was just reading lines and having fun and then it got picked up for a series and they asked if I'd like to come on board as a creator and write some and have fun and yeah it was cool. Wow that's brilliant um now I know you've done comedy sketches before uh you've done writing as well you've also got a program here on Radio 4 called What's the Story Ashley's Story so why the move into TV? It's been my dream since I was a little girl I've loved television my whole life I remember I had a bucket list when I was like five that I wanted to die on casualty and the bill and that was my dream and bring back the bill if anybody's listening who can do that um but yeah it's been my dream so I was really excited to get the opportunity.

But you don't like watching yourself on TV right? Oh who does? No I don't I don't like watching yourself on TV, right? Oh, who does? No, I don't. I don't either. I think there's something wrong with you if you're like, let's sit down and watch me. Yeah, yeah. Now, let's get to representation because what I noticed about this series is it's, what is it, almost halfway through the first episode episode we actually find out that Nina is autistic and it's not done in a very obvious way at all it's just that you know a kind of offhand conversation between the character Nina and her boss. Was it important for you that it wasn't a big dramatic scene to announce your autism? Yeah because I don't it's not dramatic when I

announce it every day so it would be weird if we suddenly made it this big dramatic when I announce it every day. It would be weird if we suddenly made it this big deal. I mean, I think people who live with neurodiversity or any sort of disability, they don't walk into a room with a fanfare and be like, I'm disabled. So, yeah, it's just an everyday normal thing. And we wanted to make the show not about autism but just about a woman who has autism and you're autistic yourself so do you find that you put yourself into Nina as the character oh a hundred percent I put so much of myself into Nina and probably to my detriment um I put all of myself and all of it's technically therapy it's funded therapy I put all of myself in there there's bits

of the show like in episode three where Nina has like a meltdown and she screams in a bush and that was something that happened to me after a big gig I just got really overwhelmed and I had to get my friend to pull over the car and she was like what's wrong and I was like I'm going to go scream in a bush and that's what I did. Okay and also in terms of you being very similar to the character there was a dress fitting episode which I think is very much based on your own feelings. I absolutely hate clothes I have so many fabric issues and I wrote this episode so I literally put myself in such an awkward position because I was like I want to show people how uncomfortable fabric sensitivity is but also I'm

going to have to be sensitive to these fabrics and we had the amazing Kate Dickey and a parrot in the room while I was trying on these dresses and she's tugging at me and the parrot squawking and it was very dramatic. Oh dear you put yourself through it though no one to blame but yourself there Ashley. True. You've also spoken about how this series helps you unmask what do you mean by that? A lot of neurodiverse women and men will understand this but there's like an element of you get up every day and you know you don't feel normal in inverted commas so you try and behave in a way that's normal and put on this almost character of this is what I think a normal person behaves like and then you end up feeling like an alien and it's very taxing

and it's very stressful and you just want to be yourself but you can't be yourself because society doesn't want you to be so that's the mask you put on every day and I think to some degree even people who aren't neurodiverse know that feeling. But imagine it constantly, 24-7. That's what it feels like. And unmasking is just being your authentic self and leaning into it. And being Nina really helped me find that authentic Ashley. Sounds very liberating for you. Yeah, it super is.

I have to ask you about this as well, because I don't know if you're going to want to, you know, demonstrate it for us live on air, but this whole thing around you turning super posh when you're lying, and it's something that your character Dina does as well. Tell me more, please. Explain to the audience for us.

When I was a teenager and I would do naughty things like go out and drink, my parents always knew I was drunk or I'd done something bad because I'd suddenly start speaking in a very sort of Miss Jean Brodie posh voice, indubitably. And they always knew I would tell on myself

and I had to write that into the character. And it's one of my favourite bits to do because I love speaking I definitely don't know what thou speaks of but that's the energy I bring when I'm lying and I can't hide it and I don't know why, which means I'd be a terrible politician or an amazing politician, I'm not sure which

Yes, no comment What else did you enjoy filming about this series? What were your favourite moments apart from the posh lying um getting to film all around Glasgow um getting to make Glasgow look beautiful as a Scottish person we have very little representation on the big television stage you kind of have outlander and then you have train spotting and there's not a lot in the middle

so getting to kind of showcase something between time travelling, lustiness and heroin addiction was fun. Wow, yeah. And it is nice because you do see quite a few parts of Glasgow and as you say, it's not something that we see very often. That was important to you? Yeah, my city is stunning. My country is beautiful.

Scotland's an amazing place. We've got amazing talent and amazing scenery and getting to just showcase that and also the island of Bute and Rothesay which is a little sunside town which is stunning getting to showcase that where I grew up was so important. What is it that you want people to take away from watching this series? I guess I want people to take away from it that they're not alone. I used to watch television, I'd watch Sex and the City and my friends would be like, I'm a Charlotte, I'm a Miranda. And I was like, I'm none of these people. I don't, I'm not

represented by any of these women. And I hope that maybe Nina is a woman that maybe the underserved can go, oh, I'm a Nina. Yeah, definitely. and would we see a series two the way series one ended it kind of teased the fact that they could be a follow-up will there be a follow-up well that's just a clever writer trick to try and make them give me a series two it sucked me in I would like a series two that would be a dream yeah and what about what's coming up next for you Ashley or TV I don't know I have a podcast with Nikki Chapman where we talk about midsummer murders which is a bit weird um I've got my radio show on Radio Scotland the Ashley Story Show every Friday night from 10 p.m till 1 a.m or listen again on the Sounds app or website

and I'm on Radio 4 but what's the story story, Ashley's story? Okay, well, you're very, very busy. It was brilliant to watch. I giggled very heartily through most of the episode. So thank you very much for that. And congratulations, because it's not easy to get a series on the BBC that you both star in and co-create. Ashley's story there, star of the new comedy Dinosaur and it's available now on iPlayer you can watch the first episode as well on BBC One tomorrow at 10 40. Now let me just get

back to some of the messages that have been coming in about dealing with admin tasks of people that have died that have been close to you particularly when you're already going through the grieving process. This message from Penny in Sussex says, when my father died in 2021, I found the magic words were, can you put me through to your bereavement department, please? Diane has messaged in to say, when my husband died 10 years ago, I was met with some very kind and some very thoughtless responses when trying to sort out his affairs. A member of staff with whom we had a mortgage was very kind, gave me a cup of tea in his office and spoke about his own experience of bereavement.

But a member of staff at our bank told me to have a nice day at the end of the call I made to report his death. And this message also via WhatsApp. My husband died last July and I'm gradually getting on top of administering the websites he looked after. Mutual friends have been most valuable. One is coming to lunch today, but I still can scream in panic. Thank you to Rosemary in Suffolk for that. Continue to get in touch. And thank you again for all the messages coming through.

Now, if you listened to Woman's Hour last week, you'll remember that we heard from Nazanin Seghiri Ratcliffe speaking to Emma Barnett about how she's been coping with the challenges of freedom after being held for six years by the Iranian regime. Nazanin also spoke about her love of sewing and how it helped her cope with her life in prison and still helps her today to readjust to normal life.

Well, the calming power of sewing has helped many women with difficult times in their lives, and it's been slowly stitching its way into modern mental health practices. We'll be discussing sewing as a well-being tool in just a moment. But first, let's hear from Nazanin once again, talking about what sewing meant to her while she was in prison. Obviously, when you're in prison, the main thing for you to think about is how to spend your time.

And I was lucky that I had access to really, really amazing books, but also we had a sewing machine. I always loved sewing, but that was an opportunity. I remember when I was, before I was arrested, I would throw the fabric on the floor

and my daughter Gabriela would come and sit on it, telling me that, pay attention to me and not the fabric. So I had to put the fabric away. But that was a time that I felt that I can produce something. And also there is a value in making things when you're in prison. And, you know, it brings people together and, you know, sharing the skill and everything. So sewing was always a big part.

And I carry on sewing with freedom. That was Nazanin Zaghari-ari Ratcliffe speaking to Woman's Hour and joining me in the studio is historian Barbara Berman author of the book The Point of the Needle Why Sewing Matters which explores the cultural history of sewing welcome good morning thank you for asking me. Oh, absolute pleasure. Listening to Nazanin there and how she found a solace in sewing whilst in prison in Iran, and even still today as she adjusts to normal life, do those words resonate with you? Completely, completely. And at a personal level, but also I've been talking to a lot of women over the last few years about sewing and what it means to them, what they feel

when they're sewing. And I think that they would find that that does resonate with them. It chimes with this sense that it has a, it's a complex physical thing, obviously, neurologically, biomechanically, and so on, with our wonderful opposable thumbs, so we can hold needles. But at the same time, when you're watching somebody sewing, there's a lot more going on and they're in a in a place that they have created for themselves and it's a way of in some ways it's a kind of way of retrieving yourself in a very busy world a lot of a lot of women have said that to me yeah we're speaking to the actor ruth wilson at the beginning of the show and she says a lot of her actors in between takes will sew to keep them grounded. And she also says she uses it as a form of meditation.

Why do you sew? Well, I sew because my mother was a very good needlewoman and she taught sewing. And so I was surrounded by it. And I like it. I admire it. And I do. I love mending too in the little bit that I do and I think I count mending as a form of making as well and I think that should also count as part of these kind of well-being factors, if you like, in sewing.

I find it, I do find it very engaging. I find I'm very much in the moment. But it's also, like a lot of people have said to me, it also makes me feel connected to people who have sewn in the past, partly because I'm a lot of people have said to me it also makes me feel connected to people who've sewn in the past partly because i'm a historian and i study that kind of thing but partly it reminds me of my mother and it also makes you focus on the future because you're so looking forward to the finishing whatever you're doing and hoping uh you know fingers crossed you haven't cut the cloth wrong or your machine isn't being grumpy that day.

I mean, it's not without its stresses and challenges. But by and large, I find it very contemplative. Yeah. Let's take a listen to some of our listeners actually telling us how sewing has helped them through difficult times. I fell in love with sewing, like a lot of people I'm sure, during the Covid pandemic. Not long into lockdown starting I was diagnosed with PTSD. I had experienced some domestic violence a couple of years before and all of the trauma just hit me when we were told that we couldn't leave our houses anymore. And so I was looking for ways to a entertain myself but b make my house and my body feel like a safe therapeutic kind of healing place to be and sewing just was groundbreaking for me

there was something about the small steps one after the other of cutting, sewing, pressing, sewing, pressing over and over again that I just, it felt like mindfulness, it felt like meditation and then having this beautiful piece at the end that I could then cover my body in. It just made me feel safe, it made me feel whole and I've never looked back. Five years ago I nearly died in a house fire and sewing saved me. I spent the start of 2019 in hospital recovering from 46% burns. Both my hands and arms are fully grafted except for my palms and it also helped to keep my mind engaged helping me to learn to live my new normal. The old expression that the devil makes work for idle hands is one I stick to so I'm never still and I'm always making and it's sewing that keeps

me happy and it keeps me on task and balanced. My body's never suited the high street and it's always been you know too short and too wide really for however the high street works but what I've learned through making my own clothes is that fitting clothes to my body and making clothes suit me is a technical problem rather than a place where normally I don't like myself and I've found that that's been healing really and that has made me kind of empowered me I guess and god I just wouldn't be without it now really interesting getting the thoughts of our listeners there Barbara listening to that and those stories you were almost agreeing with what some of them were saying do you did you feel that way like could relate? Completely. And I've heard similar reactions from people.

I mean, I think when we're thinking about well-being in all its various forms that they're talking about, we need to consider agency. I mean, well-being is a bit of a woolly term. And I think one of the things that helps so much as a kind of antidote to depression or loneliness is to take some agency, even in the smallest way. So making something for yourself, well, we know from research that making something with your own hands is very good for you.

And I think it gives a sense of control or even a sense of your journey isn't stuck now, you're moving forward. And that, I think, involves many of the benefits, for example, of learning, because when you're sowing, it's a bit like gardening, you never stop learning. And learning in itself is inherently a good thing for us. And people, of course, love fabric that's that's quite that's a that engages all of our feelings one woman told me about dreaming of eating little pieces of cloth and others have told me about how they are really enchanted with color and pattern and and the feel of things and they hoard fabric because sooner or later this beautiful piece that they've bought is going to

come into its own so it's not it's not a forgotten piece it's his cloth in waiting and and that can be over a long period of time where one woman told me about going to Thailand about 30 years ago for a holiday and coming back with some lovely silk but she's only made it into a frock very recently and so there's there's engagement with fabric so that i think the what we might call the materiality of sewing is really important and even favorite tools you're just sewing with the you know your mother's scissors or your granny's old sewing machine things there's a sense of connectivity here a sense of community um you're not it's it's not you're doing it alone perhaps but you're not lonely when you're doing it because of all of these associations in your mind yeah i suppose it makes sense then as to why people still do it today and sewing has stood the test of time because

you know we don't need to do it to men clothes anymore cheap clothes are quite widely available but for all those reasons that you mentioned people still enjoy it and one message that has just come in that has caught my eye saying I have been working on a piece of cross stitch for several months I just realized that most of this piece was worked on whilst listening to Woman's Hour. Nearly every stitch is a piece of your programme. Sitting down to do some stitching at 10am several days a week has been a really important way for me to find a few quiet moments and reset. That's Alex in Aberdeen. It's a great way, isn't it, to just ground yourself and centre yourself in the moment. Yes and it's ironic that for a lot of people feel propelled into sewing for themselves precisely because we're awash with a fast fashion super super fast fashion and we learn more about the social injustices that lie behind that

and by the grave environmental damage that textiles and apparel industries cause I think they're thought to be the fourth largest polluter on Earth. And so when you look at those sorts of numbers, a whole truckload of discarded clothes is thrown into landfill every two seconds globally. So these are immense problems. And so once you learn about that, I think people who don't want to be part of that, they want to partially disengage from that kind of consumer behaviour, then sewing allows them this sense of, I don't want to go back to the word agency, this idea that you can do something. It really has. It's been a pleasure to talk to you, historian Barbara Burnham. Thank you for coming on to the programme. It's been

a pleasure to have your company this week on Woman's Hour. Thank you for all your messages. It's been great to interact with you. Tomorrow, Anita will be discussing the best-selling Victorian novelist, Marie Corelli, who outsold Dickens in her day. Speak to you soon. And that's all for today's Woman's Hour. Join us again next time.

From BBC Radio 4. I just remember shouting and screaming, get off my sister. And that's all for God, he's here. I'm Dr Sian Williams and this is the programme that explores the most dramatic, personal and poignant stories from the very people who've experienced them. I always pass it there and say, hi John, hi John. You've got to find some joy in the sorrow, you know. You've got to find some joy in the sorrow, you know. You've got to find some joy. Subscribe to Life Changing on BBC Sounds.

I'm Sarah Treleaven, and for over a year, I've been working on one of the most complex stories I've ever covered. There was somebody out there who was faking pregnancies. I started, like, warning everybody. Every doula that I know. It was fake. No pregnancy. And the deeper I dig, the more questions I unearth.

How long has she been doing this? What does she have to gain from this? From CBC and the BBC World Service, The Con, Caitlin's Baby. It's a long story, settle in. Available now.