Woman's Hour - Sarah De Lagarde's bionic arm, Women's World Cup update, Kim Sherwood on writing Bond

Episode Date: August 7, 2023

A few months ago, Sarah de Lagarde came on Woman's Hour to share her incredible story of survival. She had fallen on to the Tube tracks at a north London station and was run over by two Tube trains. She lost her right arm and leg as a result. Today, Sarah returns with a newly fitted bionic arm, made possible with the support of a crowdfunding campaign. She speaks to Hayley about her recovery journey.As England’s Lionesses face Nigeria in the knock out stages of the 2023 FIFA Women's World Cup, Hayley Hasssall is joined by BBC sports reporters Mimi Fawaz and Anna Thompson to discuss all the action.MPs are warning that the use of smart technology and connected devices in facilitating domestic abuse is becoming a growing problem. The Culture, Media and Sport Committee has found that smart products in the home are being used to 'monitor, harass, coerce and control' victims. Committee Chair and Conservative MP Dame Caroline Dinenage joins Hayley.Priya Hall decided to use her experience of trying to start a family within a same-sex couple as the basis for her stand-up comedy debut at the Edinburgh Fringe Festival. She speaks to Hayley about the unfairness that same-sex couples face when it comes to accessing fertility treatment.With the blessing of creator Ian Fleming’s estate, the latest literary instalment of James Bond is based in a modern world, and written by a woman. Hayley speaks to author Kim Sherwood on her experience of writing for the iconic series.

This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK. I'm Natalia Melman-Petrozzella, and from the BBC, this is Extreme Peak Danger. The most beautiful mountain in the world. If you die on the mountain, you stay on the mountain. This is the story of what happened when 11 climbers died on one of the world's deadliest mountains, K2, and of the risks we'll take to feel truly alive. If I tell all the details, you won't believe it anymore. Extreme, peak danger. Listen wherever you get your podcasts.

BBC Sounds. Music, radio, podcasts. Good morning and welcome to the programme with me, Hayley Hassell. First of all, if you're worried about missing a moment of England's women in the World Cup this morning, then don't panic because we have all the analysis, hype and critique here on Woman's Hour as I'm joined by some international female sports commentators to give us their take on not only the Lionesses' performance, but on the magic coming from many of the underdogs in this tournament, including England's current competitors, Nigeria. But of course, we can't mention the football

without commiserating the netball, as last night the women's netball team lost to host Australia 45-61 in the World Cup final. But like Nigeria in the Football World Cup, England were the underdog in the netball and they never thought they'd make it even to the final. So this got us thinking. I'd love to know about a time when you succeeded against adversity.

Were you the underdog and you rose to the top? Or have you taken a setback and somehow struggled through to a spectacular comeback? I'd love to know your stories. You can text the programme this morning. The number is 84844. Text will be charged at your standard message rate. On social media, we're at BBC Woman's Hour. And you can email us through our website too. Or you can send a WhatsApp message or a voice note just by phoning the number 03700 100 444 and you can leave voice notes by text that way as well. Data charges may apply depending on your provider,

so you might want to use Wi-Fi if you can. Terms and conditions can be found on our website. Now, speaking of succeeding when everything was against you, there is no more powerful story than that of my later guest, Sarah De La Garde, who you may remember from when she last came on Woman's Hour in December to tell us how she fell onto the tracks of the London Underground Station and was run over by two trains. It was a miracle she lived and she's coming back

to tell me all about her recovery and how she's now walking and working with a bionic arm and prosthetic leg. She really has shown incredible resilience in the face of adversity. Such an amazing woman. Keep tuned for that. I'll also be talking to the brilliant author and comedian Priya Hall about her latest stand-up comedy show, All About IVF. And if you thought that it really was no time to die for the legendary spy James Bond, then my final guest today can certainly make that dream come true. Kim Sherwood has written the next instalment in the life of James Bond and as a James Bond superfan with endorsement from the Ian Fleming estate she has kept a lot of what Bond stood for whilst bringing it up to date for a contemporary audience

So where does Bond go? How does he fit into the modern world? Well she'll be here to answer all my questions on that So please get in touch with your wins, your progression in the face of adversity. I'd love to hear from you today. Now over in Brisbane, Australia, the Lionesses have been facing Nigeria in the last 16 of the Women's Football World Cup. We're in the second half. We're currently nil-nil. Mimi Fowers is sports presenter of the BBC's Focus on Africa and Anna Thompson is a BBC sports reporter. They're both here to be my eyes and ears on the game

while I'm trying to watch the screen with one eye but trying to present the show at the same time. So thank you for joining me, ladies. Anna, I know you're both watching it as well, but Anna, it's pretty stressful viewing for a Monday morning, isn't it? How are they doing so far? How have the Lionesses been getting on? Yeah, it's been pretty tense.

And I think if you're an England fan and there's millions of people watching in the UK, you're probably a bit nervous. However, they have just had a corner and it was saved on the line by the goalkeeper. So they have had a chance. But yeah, I mean, Nigeria played really, really well in this game. And I think, again, people thought the Lionesses did really well in the last match against China where they won 6-1. They just assumed that it would be relatively straightforward against Nigeria, ranked 40th in the world.

But that's not proved the case. And actually, Nigeria have had a couple of really good chances and they've hit the woodwork twice in this game. So, yeah, we're on 77 minutes and it's still 0-0. So still very tense. And as we know, it will be decided. It will go to extra time and penalties if needed. Really tense. There's been so many chances from both sides, actually.

But Nigeria are so strong. And I think that's something that has surprised a lot of people. Mimi, what challenges have Nigeria been presenting to England? Because let's remember, Nigeria stand currently 40th in the FIFA World Rankings and England are fourth. And what are the favourites, actually? So no one would claim this game is guaranteed by watching it on the screen right now. No, absolutely not. I'm watching it now.

England had a chance there just a few minutes ago. I was screaming at the screen. I'm sure you might have heard that in the background. Feel free. It's fine. Let your emotions out. Tia Maka Nadoze, the Nigerian goalkeeper, the 22-year-old. I spoke in a preview for BBC yesterday how she's definitely one of the standout players for the tournament for Nigeria. She just saved there when England had that set piece from the corner.

She really kept two clean sheets in the group stages against the Olympic champions, Canada, and the Republic of Ireland. So she is an outstanding player for Nigeria. But Nigeria have been very well organised defensively. They've made it very hard for England to break them in this game. And as well, Lauren James, we've seen her, how she did against China. But Nigeria have made sure they've had bodies around her. So she hasn't really had many chances to make deep runs to try and catch Nigeria defensively.

So much going on. And we're going to keep you both on air because we want to come back to Anna and Mimi for updates on the game later in today's programme. So I'll leave you both to watch the game and let us know the results in a short while. It's going to be hard to tear ourselves away, but we do need to talk about the rest of the news today because MPs are warning that the use of smart technology

and connected devices in facilitating domestic abuse is becoming a growing problem. That's news in this morning. The Culture, Media and Sport Committee have brought out a report today called Connect Tech, Smart or Sinister. It's found that smart products in the home were being used to monitor, harass, coerce and control victims. So I'm joined now by Conservative MP Dame Caroline Dynage, Chair of the Committee. Caroline, thank you for coming on the programme. It's really important to speak to you. So thank you for coming on at such short notice. No, not at all. Lovely to speak to you. First of all, can you explain to us exactly how this smart technology is being used in this way,

just so we can understand what's happening here? Yeah, I mean, it might be useful if I talk about one of the survivors' stories that we heard from the Refuge charity. They talked about how the victim took steps to protect herself by setting up smart home devices such as cameras and one of those doorbells that you can get to record the abuse committed by her partner however the perpetrator hacked into these devices in order to watch her around the house and listen to conversations she had on the phone but he also deleted footage of

abuse in a kind of bizarre kind of gaslighting attempt to make her question her memory and the survivor had two-factor authentication so should have received notification when the perpetrator accessed the devices but didn't and you know and of course this made her feel very violated and afraid and the bigger problem was I think caused by the fact that the police didn't fully understand the potential of the tech abuse through these kind of smart applications so they seized his computer and his hard drives but never fully investigated what happened through the smart kit so I mean in fact the police even advised her to put the doorbell camera back on, even though the perpetrator had access to it. So even now she feels on edge at home as if she's being listened to or tracked.

You can see how this is of concern. And in fact, Refuge told us that in over half of cases of abuse, now tech is used. And the Susie Lamplugh Trust told us that in 100% of stalking cases, tech is a factor. Goodness me. And it's something that we've all started integrating into our homes. Lots of us have these doorbells or smart speakers or some form of technology within the household. And as you said, then it can be used for a really positive result, but it can also be abused and hacked as well. How concerned are you about this?

Yeah, I mean, you're absolutely right. And this kind of kit, you know, these smart watches, smart speakers, virtual assistants, all these kind of wearables, you know, they can actually massively enhance our lives. They can make us feel a lot safer in our home environment and they can bring a lot of advantages but i think it's um you know it's just being aware because as you say there are on average now nine connected devices in every household in the uk so we need to make sure that i think that the law enforcement and the criminal justice system have the right skills to be able to identify. Police need to be properly trained in identifying the digital skills needed in these sort of cases.

But we also need to boost awareness of the specialist services that support domestic abuse victims in this sort of way. But also, you know, I think the industry's got a role to play on this. You know, the really big connected tech companies are Amazon, Apple, Microsoft. I think we need to bring them together for some sort of tech abuse working groups. There's a much greater focus on the security features that are there and how to close the security loopholes that allow domestic abuse to perpetuate through these devices. Yeah, and it's one of those things, isn't it, when technology is moving so fast that the police and social services aren't quite catching up with it. The committee launched its inquiry in May last year.

So what were you looking into and what did you find? So we were really looking at considering both the potential benefits and the harms of connected technology, as I say, things like your smart speakers and your wearable fitness trackers. You know, we did hear that the vast majority of domestic abuse cases now feature some sort of cyber element. And that concerns us because the calculation is that by 2050, there'll be 24 billion interconnected devices worldwide.

So this stuff is everywhere. We were also concerned about some of the privacy concerns that were raised by the use of connected tech, particularly to children. You know, there's quite a lot of personal data collected through some of these product designs. So we need much more clear terms and conditions and actually much clearer digital literacy schemes

so people can actually understand how to opt in and out of some of the privacy settings that are available in some of these pieces of equipment. You mentioned one victim story there from Refuge and there are other domestic abuse charities as well and a spokesperson from Refuge told us this morning that they hope the government will follow the recommendations to make this a priority and work with them and other specialists to ensure better outcomes for survivors of this crime. What do you say to that? Yeah, I think that's absolutely right.

And it's not always about layering on more regulation in these sort of cases. We do want the government to be more aware. But it's also we want to better understand how law enforcement works in these cases and make sure that the authorities that are in place to protect people and to prosecute the perpetrators are fully aware of how this kind of technology is being used. And what about the tech companies themselves? Surely they've got a responsibility. They do. You know, as I say, these big tech giants, they kind of lock people into They do. You know, as I say, these big tech giants, they kind of lock people into their ecosystems, you know, and I think they need to

make it a lot more clear as to how people can better protect themselves using, you know, some of the opt-ins and opt-outs, you know, and that's why we've said it very clearly in the report that industry's got a role to play. And we think that government should bring manufacturers together there's there's an office for product safety and we think that they should form a kind of tech abuse working group so that there's a much greater focus on these kind of security features and how to close the the loopholes that allow domestic abuse to perpetuate okay that's one of your recommendations what what were your main conclusions from the report and what are your recommendations going forward? So the main sort of themes are around data and privacy. We think that there should be much greater standardised privacy interfaces for connected devices so that people have a much better understanding of how to keep their data safe. And actually, you know, we think there should be

much more information collected around this because it's not entirely clear what's going on because in many cases, and particularly around crimes, the data isn't being collected appropriately. We think that the Information Commissioner's Office needs to be more proactive and ensure, particularly when it comes to children, that all the products include age-appropriate terms and conditions. We think that there's a whole range of work to be doing around product security. The government must do more to address, to bring the industry together, if you like. But also, we think that there's a real skills shortage in the cybersecurity sector to be able to make sure people are fully up to speed on what can be done to protect them and we just think that this you know this tech abuse should involve upskilling

law enforcement and improving the criminal justice response so that victims and survivors not only know that the services that are there to protect them are going to be doing it properly with full knowledge and understanding of what the threats are, but also that they're aware of the specialist services that can tackle violence against women and girls and they can be properly signposted. Yeah, but how can the government ensure that this is put in place?

Because we know there are all the recommendations, but we also know that vulnerable people are being exploited now. How can we stop that happening now? Yeah, I mean, we think, I mean, so the upskilling of the police and criminal justice system is very urgent. But also we think the Office for Product Safety and Standards should urgently convene this tech abuse working group, really bringing the industry together to tackling tech abuse, to identifying the issues and to very quickly coming to solutions about what can be done to solve it. Thank you. That is Conservative MP Dame Caroline Dynage,

and I hope that you will keep in touch as well and let us know how that goes. Thank you very much for that. Now, Woman's Hour listeners will remember the remarkable story of Sarah De Lagarde, who came on the programme last December after surviving falling onto the tube tracks at a North London station. She was run over by two tube trains and she lost her right arm and leg as a result of that. It's a miracle that she is alive today. When she was last on I remember I was listening at home while I was painting my kitchen walls, as you do, and I literally held my breath as I listened to her interview and I shuddered all over as I heard her powerful and honest tale. I remember she said, as I was waiting to be rescued, there was a cold feeling in my

chest like a ball of ice. And at that point I knew I was dying. I told the doctor and the doctor said, no, hold on. There's about a hundred people here trying to save you, don't die yet. So I'm very glad that I didn't and I'm very grateful to be alive. And we're very grateful too because today Sarah joins us again and this time she has a newly fitted bionic arm. I spoke to her shortly before we came on air and asked her how life has been since we last spoke to her. Well, there was a really long recovery period and from January until July,

and I guess it's still ongoing, right? A recovery isn't linear. It's always full of, you jump forward and you're very happy with your progress. And then all of a sudden something happens and it sets you back. So it's a constant battle, I say but I think I've made I made really decent progress since January particularly. Because you were left without part of your leg and your arm on the right side and that must have meant massive life changes how how did you go from from from that to where you are now? Well the difficulty for me really is the acceptance that these injuries are for life, right? There's always a moment where in the morning I wake up

and I'm still in between sleep and being awake. And every day I just hope that this was just a nightmare and that things are going back to to normal but and like you know a broken limb this is just my limbs are gone forever and so it's been tough but every day I have a choice when I wake up is to you know acknowledge the feelings of despair that I have and put that to one side and then focus on the positives which is you know I'm still alive I'm out here I get to test this amazing technology over and my children are happy to have their mum. Yes and we're happy to have you too and amazing to see you there with with your

bionic arm can you talk to us about what that process was like getting your arm how you managed it and how it's working for you now so the arm is an incredible piece of technology and I was so excited to test it out and I'm still in the phase where I test things and I'm not sure sometimes whether the arm controls me or whether I do control it but we're becoming friends and what is exciting about this is that the technology is quite groundbreaking I'd say. The socket that you can see here has got electrodes embedded within and these electrodes are measuring my muscle movements and so that's the top of the arm where it connects to almost your shoulder and that and that can sense your muscle movements correct and so my brain instructs the muscles to make a combination of movements

these twitches are then translated into electrical impulses that then feed the elbow and the hand ultimately and it's exciting because it kind of it will never replace my arm so we have to be realistic about that but it can help me with some basic functions and then from basic functions it can help me do some more intricate movements. It's incredibly amazing. And I know you're at the stage where you're making yourself breakfast and things like that, which must just feel phenomenal to you.

But I know it's not easy, is it? It's very heavy and it is difficult. That's right. It's really heavy. So when I take it off, it is a relief. And when I wear it for too many hours, I can sense it. You know, the next day I would have some muscle aches in my back and in my shoulders. But I've prepared for this for six months, right?

So I had so many hundreds of physio hours to get to this stage. And day by day, I'm learning to control it a little bit more. At the moment, it's not terribly exciting, I'm afraid, but it does a few functions. I can pick up a glass, I can hold my knife and cut. I cut a melon the other day and I was quite excited about that. And I know it's strange to people who still have their limbs because it's such an innate thing. We don't think about the way we use our limbs.

But it's different for me. I now cherish every single little movement that I can make. Of course, of course. And you are so positive about this. That's what's always struck me about you is you're just so, the fact that you're camping at the moment in France, aren't you? And you are wanting to go out there walking and getting your action back. But I know it's and family and colleagues and complete strangers as well, which is absolutely astonishing. And it wasn't necessarily because I was feeling sorry for myself. I was so taken, overwhelmed by the response that people had and everybody wanted to help. And so my husband had the brilliant idea to set up this GoFundMe page because people wanted to help, but they didn't know exactly how. And we had investigated a little around how much prosthetic arm would cost and we were shocked by the pricing I mean it's the price of a very nice sports car and and we

wouldn't have been able to afford this and sadly the NHS has been extraordinary at saving my life, but the waiting list to get to an NHS-funded arm is really, really long, and it's frustrating for someone who would like to go back and be active, as you said. And so the GoFundMe page was a great solution to privately fund this. And I couldn't believe that within... The amount was so high, and I remember telling my husband like we will never get to I mean we were talking about 250,000

pounds which is an extraordinary amount yes and I we would never get there and and within two and a half weeks we reached our goal, which was so astonishing. I can't tell you, I cried so much because of that, because it was really, you know, the support of people that got me to this point. Oh, I bet. And such a life changing, you know, it's not just about the money, it's completely life changing for you, hasn't it? You talk about the support there from people, but how has the support been in the prosthetic community have you had sort of support dealing with that and and learning to to work with your new life yes absolutely there is a a great community out there um it was well all of a sudden i became a member of a club that nobody wants to be part of and and I realized that um there are quite a few amputees worldwide and um and a lot of them I found using social media and they've been a source of um of support but also sharing tips and tricks as to how you know to just accept your life as an amputee. So quite positive.

That is positive, a positive thing for social media. But you've also got two daughters. How have they dealt with seeing you survive this huge life-changing accident? It must have been such a mountain to climb for them. Absolutely. Well, actually, they did see me climb a mountain, as you say, but literally. You have climbed Kilimanjaro. You are amazing in so many ways. So a month before the accident, my children saw me climb Kilimanjaro and reach the top.

And then a month later, they saw me in hospital with a missing arm and a missing leg and initially they were absolutely shocked and and for sure traumatized but both my husband and I were quick to tell them you know don't worry mummy will be fine mummy is a fighter she will you know get the robotic limbs and um she'll be you out there and do all the things that I used to do before. And so that was really reassuring for the kids. And this is the reason why I'm on a holiday camping trip with my children, because we had promised them, you know, we had this idea of traveling down the coast of France on the Atlantic side for years, and they were really worried that because of the accident it wouldn't happen.

And I told them, no, don't worry, it will still happen. And here you are. You're absolutely incredible. And I know you've always got this remarkably positive outlook. How do you sustain that? Because I remember you saying that we're all just so lucky to be alive. And after your tragic accident you just wanted to tell your loved ones how much they meant to you and your your positivity and exuberance at that time when when many people would be angry and feel hopeless and let down but you were so positive how do you do it and how have you sustained that? I guess I've always been somebody with a positive outlook so that helped and

and I honestly I draw my strength from my family every time I feel a little bit down because that that does happen you know we have to be real here I'm smiley when I'm talking to you but there are moments in my day where I lose a little bit of that hope when my leg is hurting and I can't do all the things that I used to do at the same level. But I draw my strength from my kids every time it's a hug and or just being in their company helps so much. And my husband has been absolutely fantastic over that period of time. And he still is. and that's where my positivity comes from and it is so wonderful to see you smiling on camera here and with your bionic arm as well um but it but it's not over for you is it there's that there's still more

work to be done you're still on your road to recovery um where are you on that road and how are things going i would say things are going well and listening to the medical experts who follow my case they are quite astonished that I've made such fast progress. I mean it's been 10 months now but I think I'm ahead of medical schedule by about 18 months which is incredible but it comes down to the fact that I'm quite stubborn and I like I like a challenge I like to master a challenge and um and I know that this is not the end of it there will be more to come but I'm ready for it you certainly do and there you are camping it's unbelievable eight months after you you lost your limbs um might

you do another adventure like Kilimanjaro you you lost your limbs um might you do another adventure like Kilimanjaro you you've climbed that mountain once and I remember you saying that it was actually your training that you think saved your life in the first place the fact that you were able to keep calm and essentially slow your blood rate down when you when you had the accident so now with your bionic arm and prosthetic leg do you think that you can get there again well I've I've got this this love for hiking I I love going out out you know in into the wild and the great outdoors have always been very tempting and I think if my my prosthetics fit well I would love to go back out there um I've done small hikes already.

I went to the Peak District and walked Mam Tor. Not quite Kilimanjaro, but it had me walking for four and a half hours, 18,000 steps. And I was really proud of having achieved that. But let's see how far I can take that. Thank you, Sarah. Thank you so much. It's been so lovely to speak to you I hope you enjoy the rest of your holiday thank you for taking your time to come on woman's

hour we are talking about facing adversity on the show today and so I don't know whether you did have any tips for people out there just how just how positive you've been and and and how courageous and how you are achieving so much I think it it's the realisation that we don't have unlimited time and we have to make the best of it. Well, that was Sarah De La Garde. And you can listen to Sarah's first interview with us by going to BBC Sounds and searching for the episode of Woman's Hour from the 16th of December. And after Sarah's remarkable story, I want to know if you have succeeded in the face of adversity. Have you also possibly suffered an awful tragedy

but found the positive way through? You can text us on 84844 or social media. We're at BBC Woman's Hour. But for now, while I've been speaking to you over in Brisbane, Australia, the Lionesses have been fighting Nigeria, facing Nigeria, fighting as well in the last 16 of the Women's Football World Cup stages. It's the knockout stages. So England need a win if they want to progress to the quarterfinals. And it's been an incredibly tense game. We're now nil nil and we've just started extra time. I'm joined by Mimi Fowers, sports presenter of the bbc's focus on

africa i'll be coming to you in a moment mimi um but first bbc sports reporter anna thompson is going to tell us what's happened so far and we're down to 10 women it's been eventful if maybe not in the right way can you can you run us through what we've missed so far yeah well unfortunately ash and with lauren Lauren James has been sent off. She got sent off in the 86th minute. And it's really reckless. There was a coming together between her and an after Nigeria player. And they were both on the floor.

And then Lauren James stood on the back of her when she got up. And it was just petulant and reckless. So originally it was a yellow card and then the VAR intervened and it was it was just petulant and reckless so it was a originally it was a yellow card and then the VAR intervened and it turned into a straight red so if England progress that means Lauren James will miss the next game and it's unfortunate because she has been the star performer for England at these this World Cup she's scored three goals she could have had a hat trick but again VAR overruled her hat-trick. She's been amazing, but now she's definitely going to miss the next match if England get through. Such a shame.

So we just started. And watching it, it's very reminiscent of Beckham doing his foot kick when he was down on the floor in the World Cup, what, 25 years ago. But it's sort of, you can tell, it's a tense game. It's really difficult. And obviously emotions are high, which I didn't expect to see from England. You know, they've been winning 6-1. They have been really proud, positive. It's disappointing, actually.

It is. But I think that the issue with this World Cup, you can't, as I say, like the FIFA rankings don't mean anything. So you can't just expect to turn up in a match with a higher rank and expect to go through. That's proved. Nigeria have done their homework. They've really thwarted England. They've not been

able to have as many chances as they would like. There's been very few clear-cut chances in the game. They've done really well, Nigeria. They're a good, strong team themselves. As you say, it's still an eye-fetching this one. And we've got, well, another about 27 minutes of extra time to go. And if they still can't be partied, then we go to penalties. Yeah. Now, Mimi, I'll come to you now because Nigeria's super fans, Falcons, they are doing amazingly well. Not only are they really strong in this game, but they're keeping their calm as well. They're the first African team in the tournament to secure their place in the final. What has their journey to this knockout been like and how important is this game for them?

Oh, I mean, this game is huge. You've got over 200 million people in Nigeria all supporting the Super Falcons. They're the most successful. Let me just put that into context. They're the most successful team in Africa, men's or women's team, winning nine African Women's Cup of Nations titles. Now, they've had a very challenging time coming into the competition. Their manager, the coach, Randy Waldron, was being owed more than 14 months salary. Some of the players are still being owed outstanding bonuses two years from two years ago.

So it wasn't exactly the ideal preparations coming into the competition. Didn't even play friendlies a few months leading up to it. So they've done really well. As I mentioned, the group stages, they played a goalish draw against Olympic champions Canada. So that's a big team that was in that group. And then as well, defeating the co-host Australia 3-2 and then getting a draw against the Republic of Ireland. So they've not had an easy group stage.

When you look at the teams they've beaten in their group, they're ranked higher than them. And now they're giving the European champions, England, a run for their money. We saw Lauren James being sent off with that red card because she stepped on the back of the Nigerian defender Michelle Alozie so they had to go to VAR and we and we sent that yellow and give her a red for stepping on her back with the with the studs so it's really tight and a heartfelt battle right now and it's dramatic as well but as you say this is such an historic moment not just for African

women's football but for African football and you can tell the crowds are singing, they're jumping, they're elated just to get to this moment. So how much, whether it's a win or a loss, how much does that mean, not just to the team, but to Nigeria? As you mentioned, it's big for Africa because for the first time ever, we've had three African teams at the same time through to the knockout stages. I think many Nigerians were very critical of Randy Waldron, the Nigerian coach, coming into the competition just because of his record playing in the Women's Africa Cup of Nations, not picking it up for a tenth time last summer. Regardless, Nigeria have done so well.

Even if you look on social media, many Nigerian football fans are saying that they didn't expect Nigeria, because of all the controversy, coming into the competition to do so well. And let's just talk about that at the moment, because there were questions as to whether the Nigeria team would take strike action

and boycott their opening games of this World Cup, because they did strike last year. It's all over their pay and lack of equality. And so surely having to fight those battles has had an impact on their performance on the pitch. I mean, it doesn't look like it, but they're going through a lot just to get here. To be honest with you, many Nigerian football fans thought that it would affect them on the pitch and it hasn't. We've seen how well they've played so well. I think they've exceeded expectations from many Nigerian football fans. They're so organized. If there's anything going on off the pitch, we're not seeing it on the pitch

because there is a lot going on off the pitch. They've come very well organized, very determined, and perseverance from the Nigerian team. This is historic. If they were to get a win over England, it will be only the second time ever in Nigerian history that they make it to the quarterfinals. And the last time was in 1999.

So there's a lot riding on this match. Wow. Anna, the Lionesses, they came off with such a high after their 6-1 victory over China last week. What has happened? Sorry, I know there was a near miss. There was a near miss.

You both just stopped and shuddered back in your chairs. We did. We did. Yeah, Nigeria, Elodie actually, who Lauren James stamped on, she's just missed. It might have been actually offside if she had gone to VAR, but yeah, she hit it well wide. So we're still at 0-0.

Obviously lots of fans in the stadium jumping up and down. So I'm trying to keep an eye on all sorts here. And you probably missed my question. It was what's going on? They were so strong last week. What's happened? Yeah, well, it's really odd because when Keira Walsh got injured in the Denmark game, you know, people thought,

oh, that's it, England are going to really struggle without her. She didn't play, obviously, against China, and they had this amazing result and then she's had this miraculous recovery so she has played today so just and they played the same formation that they did against china so i mean you can only put it down to nigeria just having a better game plan than china really so that's what i can put it down to um but yeah i mean it's just it's just unfortunate they just haven't been able to have this free-flowing football that we saw against China. But I think it's more about the opposition

than it probably was about England. England obviously hit all the shots and they all went in, all their chances against China, whereas today they've been limited, really. Yeah, and just taking it out to look at that wider view of the tournament, actually, because this has been an unpredictable World Cup, to say the least.

Jamaica, Morocco, South Africa, all three to the last 16 for the first time meanwhile three of the top 10 in the current fifa rankings so germany canada and brazil have been knocked out in the group stages and the current champions the usa were knocked out on sunday so do you think this represents a shift in the global landscape of women's football? I do. And again, I think before the tournament began, because they were expanding it from 24 to 32 teams, I think there was concerns that actually, would we have some real hammerings in the tournament? Would those other teams be ready to play at this level?

But it's been completely the opposite, where almost this new order has come in and sort of said, look, we should be here and we're going to make sure we set up correctly against the bigger teams there were some results earlier on where although they weren't big beatings that there was only like one goal in it so it felt like they a lot of the teams are set up just not to lose those first matches but obviously that then gave them opportunities later on in the group stages and as we saw I mean Morocco were beaten 6-0 by Germany people probably forget that in their opening match but then they managed to to go

through when germany went home and obviously usa i mean i think people even though they were ranked number one in the world i don't think people probably expected them to win again this time and obviously there's a lot of um recombinations now because they did go out in dramatic fashion last night to Sweden. But then Sweden ranked third in the world. So that was always going to be a tough game, actually, that match. And unfortunately, the USA were on the wrong side of it this time. Yeah, unbelievable stuff.

And I'm going to ask you, I know it's cheeky, but we've got into extra time. We've possibly still got penalties. Who knows? Would you mind sticking around? Because we might want to come back to you later in the show thank you ada and me as long as you don't want as long as you don't want a penalty by penalty uh shootout but yeah we don't want everyone turning off but thank you yeah that'll do that'll do lovely speak to you all in a moment now for listener week um which is something we've been running here on woman's hour. We want to hear this time from your kids. Do they have some great life advice that they'd like to share with the Woman's Hour audience?

Maybe it's about how to be happy or how to be calm or how to play and have fun. Let us know as the parent or guardian and we could possibly get in touch and feature it on Listener Week here on Woman's Hour. You can text us on 84844. Text will be charged at your standard message rate, so check with your network provider for exact costs. And on social media, it's at BBC Woman's Hour, and you can email us through our website as well. My daughter last week said to me,

Mummy, if you find a job you love, you'll never work a day in your life. She's only seven. Such wise words coming out of a child. I don't know how that happened. I'm going to have to learn more from her. But I know that your kids will have some anecdotes that we could all learn from. So please keep them coming in. We are now about to interview Priya Hall, who has been doing stand-up comedy for five years, but has decided to use her experience of trying to start a family within a same-sex couple as a basis for her debut at the Edinburgh Fringe Festival. Priya has written recently of the unfairness that same-sex couples face when it comes to accessing fertility treatment, referring to it as queer tax.

Well, I'm pleased to say that Priya joins me now live from Edinburgh. Priya, thank you so much for coming on the show and taking time out of what I think must be so hectic up there at the moment. Now, you're a very funny lady, but what I like about you, which is so different from other comedians, is that you talk with such honesty about your real life and it never feels like any of it is made up just for the laughs. Is that a conscious thing is is that what you're trying to do yeah definitely um what I really want to do is connect with audiences and I think they can tell when things are insincere so I try to keep things as close to reality as possible and it's funny yeah yeah much of your reality is quite funny like. Like when you talk about your granddad's reaction to you coming out and various things in your family life, you know of it is quite ridiculous and silly

and we were finding it quite funny among all of the stressfulness of it. And we also, at the time, were looking for as much content as we could to sort of relate to people who were going through it as well and found that there really wasn't much out there, not much at all. And it felt like... It feels like comedy is a good way to talk about it in a way that engages people and doesn't um get them to switch off because I think that's most people's reactions um when you want to talk about it with people. It seems the process for

some same-sex couples varies from area to area which is which has really surprised me and and it's been quite confusing. And can you explain to us, if you can, what couples are faced with if they do want to start a family within a same-sex relationship and what you've found? Of course. So if you want help from the NHS to conceive as a same-sex couple, it entirely depends on where you are in the UK. It's a postcode lottery, really.

Across England and it depends entirely on what health board you're with and there are different rules in Scotland and there are different rules in Wales where we live so when my girlfriend and I were initially looking into how to conceive we found that we would either have to have been trying for two years or have spent £30,000 and I've got a joke in the show which is my girlfriend and I can try for as long as we like. We're not going to get very far. Well, that's such an obvious point, but you're right.

What is the point of having that rule? It does not apply to you at all. Yeah, and this is the thing. That rule exists in the majority of health boards across the UK. And Whitney and Megan Bacon-Evans, a couple in England, took action against their local health board and got that rule repealed in their health board, which is a wonderful thing. But also really highlights the fact that it is going to take a lot of individual action, which is obviously so exhausting if you're going through this process to get that rule repealed everywhere because it could not be less relevant yeah and Whitney and Megan Bacon Evans had to fight for for a long time to get that and um but if that did happen across the board how important would this change be for for same-sex couples well it would change the game completely it would mean that so few so

many fewer people would have to go to private clinics in order to go through the IVF process or the IUI process and that would mean that there was no longer just the given that you would have to spend thousands of pounds before even beginning the journey or beginning the journey in a way that you don't necessarily want to and I think I think what's especially frustrating about it is obviously those rules apply to straight people. And it makes perfect sense if you're looking at it in that way. But quantifying subfertility, as they call it on the Stonewall website, does not work in the same way for same-sex couples. And I think it's very frustrating and to see that that rule gets applied

across the board well your show addresses all these points quite quite brilliantly um why is is part of putting humor on it is it your way to raise awareness or is it your way of coping I'm just interested in why you do that well I think I tend to do that for everything. I am. Nothing is serious for me. But I certainly, I was iffy about talking about it in my show because obviously it's such a personal process to be going through. And what I've decided to do is sort of freeze the show in a moment in time so I don't go too much into detail on what's happening specifically with my partner and I at any given time. But I chose to talk about it because again there's there's really

not that much out there for people to to seek out I honestly sought out everything on like TikTok um and podcasts on this topic just because like anything if you're going through something stressful you want to be able to relate to people who are going through it and there's not many people who can relate to the fact that queer healthcare in this country is not great it's not ideal but at the same time there must be so many people who are if not completely related to it they are reacting to it and it's helping them to listen to you what what has the reaction been so far to your show and have you had people contacting you about it? I have, yes. I've had people come up to me after the show

to tell me that they're going through the same process and they really related to it. I've also had people message me on Instagram to say that they're going through similar processes or the same. I had a male-presenting same-sex couple come up to me to say that they were going through the adoption process. a different process completely but also relevant to them because they are also like overcoming huge hurdles in order to start a family and I think I think it can be really reassuring to hear someone talk about it in a way that isn't all stress and woe. I try to put as positive a spin as on it as I can

in my show and make light of some of the more ridiculous aspects of it. And it must help you in so many ways as well. I know a lot of comedians struggle with their mental health and that's sometimes put down to the fact that they've got this fake persona that laughs all the time. Whereas you're talking about your real life and you're letting it all out. Do you think in a way it's cathartic comedy I mean I've just come with that phrase now but is it yeah I think so I think I have a tendency to massively overshare on stage and they have to scale back and be like did you mean to say that I'm like so I've gotten to the stage now where I'm not oversharing I'm not sharing to a point on stage where it's leaving me exhausted

after every gig it's not like a counselling session every night yeah people are coming away from it being like I don't need to know all about like yeah fair enough um but it is certainly I think it's the connection with people and having I had an amazing a person come up to me after one of my previews who all she wanted to do was show me the picture of her blended family. And it was children that had been created through IVF, children from previous relationships. And they were all as one as a family. And she was so happy and excited to tell me. And that felt amazing because that's what you want to see, really.

Yeah, yeah. And that is the outlook that I hope you'll achieve. You've mentioned previously, though, that going through this process makes you feel a bit scared. Why are you scared? I think it's quite scary to realise, especially when you sort of bop through the world. We've got a great, I live in Cardiff, we've got a great queer community in Cardiff. They sort of bop through the world thinking everything's marvelous and then you come across this wall and realize there are inequalities at every turn um and it it really blows everything out of the water you really it puts everything in perspective it made me realize

so obviously things are changing the same size couples trying to conceive the rules are changing on this every day um and things are progressing but it same sex couples trying to conceive. The rules are changing on this every day and things are progressing. But it also highlights the fact that, you know, health care for queer people is not where it should be in this country. And it really brings into life that, you know, our trans siblings are awaiting incredibly long times for life saving care. And it's that thing where you become more aware of one aspect of it everything else comes into focus and that is a scary process because it makes you realise that we're so much further behind where we need to be. I'm sure I feel that and so what is your show called and good luck with it but what's it called if people want to see it? It's called

Grandmother's Daughter and it's on in Monkey Barrel 2 at 4.20 every day during the Fringe, except for the 11th. Well, good luck with the show. We wish you all the luck in the world with that. We also wish you good luck with your family's future. So thank you very much, Pia Hall, for coming on. Some of you have been in touch, talking about the triumph that you have gone through after your possibly different situations that have brought you down to begin with. This one from Diane says,

When I was seven, I was in the girls' brigade. One evening, the head of the girls' brigade was coming to judge our formation dancing. I was not the most obedient and docile of girls, and our leader said to me, You are not going to ruin our brigade's reputation. Get to the back, out of sight and behave. Meanwhile, her own daughter and her friends were put in pride of place at the front. The national leader watched us perform. And at the end, she said, very good girls. You knew your steps well.

But what I was most thrilled with was the little girl at the back. So happy and grinning all the time. Oh, that's an amazing story, Diane. Well done. And another one here says, if I can click on my screen says that just keep going um has been my triumph bringing up two boys in a low-level domestic abuse scenario took every ounce i had to give keeping them safe working and dealing with the aftermath has been ongoing not spectacular but it takes every bit of grit you've got to get the positivity thank you so much for those and for sharing those moments with me

now my next guest is um an achiever in a masculine world of her own when you think of james bond which words spring to mind probably masculinity violence action well times have changed and with the blessing of the creator ian fleming estate, the latest instalment of the historic novel is written by a woman, the author and creative writing lecturer Kim Sherwood. Well, the first in a trilogy, Double or Nothing, sees both classic and new characters come together for more action-packed missions with MI6. But as a lifelong Bond fan,

what pressures has Kim faced when writing the book and are the novels what we're expecting well Kim joins me now to tell us more welcome to the show Kim first of all um what attracted you to Bond I mean why Bond hi there thanks so much for having me first of all and I've really enjoyed your lioness coverage this morning oh well we're all still gripped but we have to move on to James Bond for now oh so I've been a James Bond fan all of my life. And literally all of my life said to anybody who would listen, one day I want to write James Bond.

So it's very surreal it's come true. I was first transfixed by seeing Brosnan on the TV, the scale of it, the spectacle of it. And then when I was about 12, I wanted to try writing spy fiction. So I bought From Russia With Love in pan paperback. And I read Fleming for the first time. And I bought From Russia with Love in pan paperback and I read Fleming for the first time and I fell in love with his prose style and I read him on repeat and I was really drawn to this iconic character and it's been an incredible opportunity to have

to step into that world and into that canon now. And so what was it like being a woman and writing Bond being a woman? Did you feel the pressures of that or did it just come naturally? In a way I've been training for this all of my life because of loving this thing all of my life and it was an exciting opportunity because the Flemings asked me to expand the world of 007. So that was an opportunity to keep Bond as Bond, a character I love, but also to expand the stage. So I've brought in these new 00 characters, and that has allowed me to create a more inclusive world for Bond, which has been important for me as a woman coming into this male-dominated space.

As you said, I've been able to create 003, Johanna Harwood, the first kind of main character, female 00, who's named after the first woman to write Bond. She co-wrote the screenplays for Dr. No and From Russia With Love. And of course, Moneypenny is more of a bigger character with more presence and power as well. I know it's obviously been well received so far, but has there been any opposition or controversy to the fact that it's changed or it's you that's doing it? I think any time a woman puts

her head over the parapet in a male dominated space, there will be some opposition. So of course, there's been some online misogyny and reactions to, you know, accusations of wokeness, whatever that's supposed to mean. But what I've been really delighted by is that the majority voice, the fan voice has been incredibly celebratory and welcoming. The Bond community is an amazingly diverse and inclusive space. When you think about it, for something to be this popular for so long, there's got to be a lot of angles to it that people can enjoy so you've got things like Licence to Queer an amazing podcast looking at Bond from a queer perspective I've done a lot of events with them so what I've tried to do is really give the platform and the microphone to those positive celebratory voices in this brilliant fan community. And of course you had to keep this

a secret for a very long time um why was that and how on earth did you manage it well I was helped by the fact that I was writing it through lockdown so I wasn't seeing anybody because I have a terrible focus if I had been seeing people on a daily basis that would have slipped out immediately I had to keep it a secret because anything in the Bond world is you know big news um but it helped me with the writing process because I was able to imagine I was just a kid again playing James Bond you know when I was able to imagine I was just a kid again playing James Bond you know when I was a little kid I'd spy on my neighbours who luckily were very tolerant people and I would turn their movements into mystery stories and I was I was

Bond in my mind and I could go back to that sense of play and being able to take risks and experiment when it became public obviously I was really delighted with the response from the fans but it also added to the pressure because suddenly it was public news. Gosh, yes. So in a way, when you're in your little cocoon, it was much easier to live in that world. And now there were rumours that the new Bond could have been a different gender. Did you ever consider this? Because as you say, you used to pretend to be Bond in your head when you were a child. Did you not want to make a female Bond for a change? For me, that was less interesting to map a female hero onto the template of a male hero.

And like I say, I've loved Bond's character all my life. I wanted to keep Bond as Bond. But that was why I thought I'll have him be missing from the beginning. He's vanished, MI6 are trying to find him. Because if Bond is there on page or screen, he commands the spotlight. If you're going to bring in new characters, you have to be able to move the spotlight to them.

So I thought if I just ask him to step a little to the left and put him in darkness, I can move that spotlight onto these new characters. So we have, for example, the first gay 00, we have a Muslim 00. I'm hoping that will allow more people to see themselves as the hero. Like I said, I used to play as Bond when I was a kid, and there was nothing wrong with that. But I didn't want to play as a Bond girl. That was the other character available to me. And no one aspires to be a supporting character. You want to be the main character of your own story.

So I hope this enables more people to see themselves as the hero of the piece. Yeah. Well, I'm only on Chapter 3, so I've got a bit more to go. I know that Bond is secretly out there. I've not quite got to him yet. But thank you. That's Kim Sherwood, the writer of Double or Nothing. Now, we have been talking about tech abuse here on the show earlier,

and a few people have got in touch. It's obviously struck a chord with so many people. Here, one message from Robert says, important coverage. Thank you. It's worth mentioning that some of the tech firms

are already acting to protect users and in ways that seem more well-informed than government and police. Apple Safety Checks features are specifically designed for people in domestic abuse situations. And there are, of course, lots of charities that can help you, of course, on the BBC website, on the BBC's Action website, if you need to go there as well.

Now, thank you all for your messages on facing adversity. There are some pretty remarkable and courageous Women's Hour listeners out there. So thank you so much for being in touch. Of course, there are no more goals yet on the Women's World Cup with England against Nigeria. You'll have to watch that yourself. But thank you for joining us and we'll be back on air at 10 o'clock tomorrow. Well, thanks for listening. There's plenty more from Women's Hour on BBC Sounds.

Hi, it's Annette Catwalla. And Charlotte Stavrou here. There's plenty more from Woman's Hour on BBC Sounds. I fell in love with that madly. The idea of just turning a plant into this giant analogue synthesiser. Running shoes. The beauty of it is you get a chance to understand performance at the highest level. And tea. It's the connection and the safety cues to your body that it's over and you're safe. And much more. So join us for the second season of All Consuming, available on BBC Sounds. I'm Sarah Trelevan, and for over a year,

I've been working on one of the most complex stories I've ever covered. There was somebody out there who was faking pregnancies. I started, like, warning everybody. Every doula that I know. It was fake. No pregnancy. And the deeper I dig, the more questions I unearth. How long has she been doing this? What does she have to gain from this? From CBC and the BBC I dig, the more questions I unearth. How long has she been doing this? What does she have to gain from this?

From CBC and the BBC World Service, The Con, Caitlin's Baby. It's a long story, settle in. Available now.