Woman's Hour - Shahrnush Parsipur remembered, Fibroids, Grief and clothing, Olympian health

Episode Date: July 9, 2026

Iranian writer, Shahrnush Parsipur, who spent her life documenting what it meant to be a woman living under repression in Iran, died this week in the US, at the age of 80. Anita Rani talks to Iranian journalist Paxima Mojavvezi about Shahrnush, a pioneer of feminist literature, whose book Women Without Men was banned in Iran, but nevertheless became an underground bestseller. According to the Royal College of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists, around two-thirds of women will develop at least one uterine fibroid during their lifetime - that's a non-cancerous growth that develops in or around the womb. Despite being a common reproductive health issues, fibroids remain under-discussed and can leave some women without the knowledge to seek treatment. Anita is joined by a gynaecologist Dr Michelle Griffin, author of a new book, Fibroids: Everything You Need to Know from Symptoms to Diagnosis and Beyond and Dawn Heels who suffered for decades with fibroid symptoms and is now a campaigner for the condition. Many of us are familiar with the onerous, often painful process of sorting through the wardrobes of our loved ones who have died. It raises difficult choices about what to do with clothes that can carry emotional weight and evoke many memories. Anita discusses what people can do to keep memories alive with Sophie Lewis, founder of The Reincarnation Club, a service which creates new outfits out of old and Pip Housam, general manager of Love Keep Create, a company which transforms cherished clothing into lasting keepsakes.Is it correct to assume that a former elite athlete is always healthy? A research project from the University of Edinburgh is exploring just that by looking at the current health status of retired female Olympians and how this compares to females in the general population. Anita speaks to lead researcher Dr Lauren Guilfoyle and five-time Olympian runner, Jo Pavey.Presenter: Anita Rani Producer: Corinna Jones

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Hello, I'm Anita Rani. And welcome to Woman's Hour from Bearden. BBC Radio 4. Just to say that for rights reasons, the music in the original radio broadcast has been removed for this podcast. Good morning and welcome to the programme. Around two thirds of women will develop at least one uterine fibroid during their lifetime. But what are they and how can they impact your life? Another women's health issue that isn't widely talked about, but we will be doing just that. Are former elite athletes healthier than the rest of us? A new study is doing the research. We'll be finding out about that too.

And what do you do with the clothes of loved ones who have died? We'll be discussing the process of clearing out wardrobes after someone has passed away, what things can mean and what can be done with that item if you're finding it hard to let go of it. I'll be talking to two women who transform clothing into keepsakes. But this morning I'd like to hear from you about items of clothing from your loved ones that you've kept. Maybe it's your granny's favourite jumper, a summer dress that makes you think of mum, or a timeless sari that gets passed down through generations. Have you had to go through clothes and decide what to do with them? How was that experience of sorting through their wardrobe after

they've gone? There are so many memories attached to certain items. Have you reimagined or repurposed something to give it a new lease of life, maybe make it wearable again or pass it on through the family? Let me know the stories. Tell me about the item. Tell me about the person. and all of it. I'd love to hear from you this morning in the usual way. You can text the program. The number is 84844. You can also email us by going through our website. You can voice noters or WhatsAppers on 0300-100-400-44. And also on most smart speakers, you can say Alexa Ask BBC Sounds to send a comment. So whichever way you want to get in touch with us, please do so. That text number once again, 84844. But first, The US has launched strikes on Iran for a second night. After months of conflict, uncertainty continues for millions of Iranians. Next, we're going to remember a writer who spent her life documenting what it meant to be a woman living under repression in the country. Sharnoosh Parcupur died this week at the age of 80.

Sharnoosh was a pioneer of feminist literature whose book Women Without Men was banned in Iran, but nevertheless became an under-yghur. underground bestseller and this year it's been long listed for the international Booker Prize. To tell us about her Iranian journalist Paxima Mojavezi is on the line from Washington. Paxima, welcome to Woman's Sauer. You actually lived with Sarnoos for three days whilst you were making a documentary and I believe that you've read all her work. So tell us about her. What was she like?

Hello and thank you for having me. That is a long story with me and Shah Nush started when I was teenager. Actually, I found her book when I was teenager in Tuba and meaning of the night in the party. And when I, you know, just read the lines, you know, the parties finish for. me and I just sat some corner and reading the book. Yeah. And after that, I fall in love with Sharnoosh writing and I started reading all Sharnoosh books after another after. And women, like women without men's, the dogs and the long winter, the simple and the little tale of the spirit of the trees. After many years, I went to India for doing my

my PhD in Sociology of Literature, and I choose tuba and meaning of the night for my PhD. Two more books. Yes, exactly, because these books, it shows the women's movement from traditional to the modern life, and it's from constitutional revolution to the 1979 revolution. So this is a very good era for me to changing the woman, you know, perspective from the, you know, path to future. And I talked to her and I emailed her and I talked to her about the tea that I want to work and she very generously answered all my questions and we start befriending through the mail. you know, through the emails. But when she understood I was leaving India,

she was very excited because she studied Chinese traditional and culture in Sorbonne University. And she very interested about, you know, the culture and the Eastern cultures. So we become a friend. Then I moved to United States after I, I did my PhD. And before I'm moving from Los Angeles to Washington, D.C., I asked her,

is it okay? I make a documentary about you. And she said, of course. So she invited me to stay at her home. I spent three days with her. And even she wasn't well. She was amazing hot. And she cooked for me herself.

She made it upbushed, which is a tragic. traditional Iranian dish. And also she took me to the city and we go for some parties. And at least when I want to come back to the LA, she insisted me to drive to the airport. That is not, that is what's far away from her home. And those three days brought us very, you know, pleasure and honored. and after that we stay in touch together. What an amazing experience. I'm thinking about the teenage you sitting in the corner of the party, reading the book, and then, you know, having three days with her in America and her cooking for you and that connection to your roots and also talking to her and spending that time with her.

She sounds like a very generous person when you met her still. How was she known in Iran? Actually, she was, she knows. The people in Iran known her as a brave woman. She was fearless. She was always said exactly what she believed, no matter what the cost was. And I think this is a very, very important things that people know about, you know, Shahnush,

that she write and she talked brave and freely. Tell us a bit more about the book, Women Without Men. What impact did that have in the country on you and elsewhere? Yeah, exactly. I think Women Without Men was a very brave book for its time. Because when that time, the Shahnush, you know, wrote this book that is a very dark era in Iran. This book was published in 1918, if I'm not mistaken, yes.

And on that era, it's the period of mass execution of political prison in Iran. And the time was people were afraid of speak out. But on that era, she talked about women. forbidden part, forbidden points like virginity, like woman's body, you know, like patriarchy. And

she talked about those you know subject that it's taboo and no one's talk about that. And because of things, because of these things, I think this novel cross several

and cross the you know, several red lines. And it challenging the, you know, view of the religious government that, you know, wants women, you know, differently. Yeah. But she shows the woman's body, sexuality and virginity. And I think the reason the book becomes so powerful. As you said, incredibly brave. Let's hear a reading from the book.

This is a young teacher quits her job after her boss asks her. to the cinema. As principal, Mr. Eitashami seemed to enjoy having her as assistant principal. She did not mind the arrangement either. But then one day, he turned to her and said, Miss Parhamie, would you like to go to the cinema with me tonight? There is a good movie playing. She went pale, not knowing how to deal with this forwardness.

What did the little man think? Who did he think she was? What was his intention? Now she understood why the female teachers suppressed their smiles and pursed their lips every time Mr. Ehteshami talked to her. They must have sensed something. But they were wrong about her. Now she would show them who she really was.

She quit the job without notice. However, when she heard a year later that Mr. Ehtashami had married Miss Atoye, the history and geography teacher, she felt such a tightness in her chest as if her heart was about to burst out. That was a clip from women without men, which has been long-listed for the Booker. Shanush was imprisoned for almost five years, Paxima, wasn't she?

What happened? Yeah, actually, Sharnoos was in prison twice. The first time was under the Shah, you know, that she was arrested by Thabak, the Shah, separate police. After she resigned from Iranian national television in protest against the arrested and execution of writers, on that time, she detained for about 54 days. But the second time, much more, you know, worse.

It happened during 1980s that I told you before, that is under Islamic. Republic regime that it's the darkest time in Iran that's political prison begin executed in Iran. Shah Nush, it's all the time said I'm not belonging to the political party or organization, but they arrested her because they found some magazine and, you know, books, forbidden one actually in her car that is belonging to her brother you know

so and I think this is enough reason to be arrested her and she was never formally charged with a crime but she spent more than four years in prison

years later after she you know released she wrote about her memory, her memories in prison and incals a prison's memory in her book. Which leads me to my next question really, which is because she spent much of her later life in exile, which is where the two of you crossed paths. How much did she continue to write and work? Yeah, but this is after you mean in prison, she, yeah.

I think the prison never changed her forever. but and it's never about it changed her life but it's never broken her you know I think when she was in prison after she released she opened one small bookshop in Tehran but they also you know and that the bookshop and she started she was began written the first chapter of tuba and meaning of the night in prison. But after she released the, you know, prison, she understood they removed some pages that in handwriting, when one of the characters,

Sartare, it's killed by a family member because she was pregnant because of the raping, you know. And after she released, Shahnush said, she burned all the pages, had written in prison and started the novel all over again. What will be her legacy? Yeah, I think her legacy, I think, is braveness, you know. And Shandush, greatest legacy, if I once, specific to you. it's her honestly and her courage, you know.

She showed a writer should never afraid of the truth. Even, you know, the truth comes with a very high price. And it is very extraordinary things to me from her. And Paxima, I mean, you haven't been in Iran yourself for almost 12 years now. But what have you heard from women living in Iran at the moment? Yeah, I, yes, it's true. I left almost 12 years Iran, but I keep in touch with my family and my friends, people in especially, I know there, you know, I follow the news and I deep in the news, but in recently,

I think they have gone through many, many different and complicated times because Iranian moment living and fighting under fear, pressure, and propaganda of the Islamic Republic regime. And I think one of the turning points, the world understood what happened in Iran, it came back to 2002 when Mahasahmini was killed and the women life freedom, you know, movement start. And after that, after four years in January 8th and 9, 2026, we saw another, you know, horrific happen in Iran when this, when the government and security forces opened fire to peaceful protest. And thousands of Iranian were killed, injured, and, you know, arrested. And many of

those kills, the women are young women and young girls that, you know, they want just normal life. They once live just normal life and they, but they have, they paid for their courage by their lives. And I think these days Iran has, you know, with war. you know, the news and everything. I think as a writer and journalists, I couldn't accept the war. War, it's not perfect things. But, you know, I think the Iranian regime is a problem. Hello.

Hello. Yes. Yes. And as a writer, I naturally against the war, but no matter it's happened, the war always brings suffering loss and pain for ordinary people. But at the same time, I want mentioned that we never forget the regime, the Islamic regime, 47 years in, you know, push the suppressed in people, Iranian people in this world. And I think all the reason of the war is become, becomes through the Islamic Republic regimes. Paxima, thank you so much for joining me this morning and speaking to me about your thoughts on what's happening right now, but also on remembering Sharnoosh Parasipur, Paxima Mojavezi.

Thank you so much. 84844 is the text number. Lots of you getting in touch about items of clothing from loved ones who have died. and what do you do with their clothes? Are there items that you've kept? Someone has got in touch to say, my late mum left school at 13 and became a tailoress during the war years. One of the things she made was a kilt, which I kept when she passed away. My daughter, Elsa, wore it with pride at Burns Night a couple of years ago. It was over 75 years old and she looked amazing in it.

Oh, that sounds incredible. Made properly, that's why. 84844. Keep those stories coming in. Now, according to the Royal College of obstetricians and gynecologists, around two-thirds of women will develop at least one uterine fibroid during their lifetime. That's a non-cancerous growth that develops in or around the womb. Despite being one of the most common reproductive health issues worldwide, fibroids remain underd disgust and can leave some women without the knowledge to seek treatment. Well, in a new book, fibroids everything you need to know from symptoms to diagnosis and beyond, gynecologist Dr Michelle Griffin aims to help women understand what's happening

inside their body. She joins me along with Dawn Heels who suffered for decades with fibroid symptoms and is now a campaigner for the condition. Michelle and Dawn, welcome. Thank you so much. Thank you for having us. Michelle, how handy that you've written the book? Yes. First of all, what are they? I've given an overview

but let's tell us more. Yes, that's a really good starting point because actually, as you said, they're so common but if you spoke to the general person, they probably wouldn't know what it is. And really they are hard, really hard lumps of fibrous tissue that grow inside the womb, the uterus. But they grow in different parts of the uterus. And also they can be so varied in their size. So some people, some women can have them as small as a pea.

And some women can have them as big as, for example, a watermelon. And just this week I heard from one lady who said that she had one fibroid removed that was 4.5 kilograms. Oh my goodness. That's like what some people are lifting in the gym. Yeah. And she's carrying that around with her every day, every night. Do we know how they are formed or why? That's a great question.

We have some ideas, but we don't have a clear cause. We know that there are associations, there's risk factors. So what we know is that they often will run in families. So you'll see that a woman will come. She'll talk about what she's suffering from. And she'll say, oh, my mum had it. My aunt had it. My grandmother had it.

So we definitely know there's a genetic element. And we have found some genes that are responsible or associated with women who are getting fibroids. We also know that one of the biggest risk factors is actually age. So from when you go through puberty and your hormones kick in, all the way through to menopause, as you're getting older, you're more at risk of developing fibroids because you're more exposed to those hormones. What are the symptoms? Yes, well, Dawn, I'm sure you'll be able to say,

but I think they are very varied and they do, you know, everybody has different symptoms, but one of the key ones, like the biggest cause of heavy periods is fibroids. And, you know, where we're talking about is women will be listening to this and hopefully thinking, yeah, that's me having to wear multiple layers of period products, not being able to sleep because they're so worried they're going to leak through their period products, wearing incontinence pads or towels on their beds, flooding and heavy blood clots coming. But it isn't just about painful, heavy periods.

It's that fact that you've got this really hard lump or multiple fibroids, so multiple lumps in the uterus that's sitting there, in a space that it shouldn't be there. And you can get so much pressure from that. Dawn, I'm going to bring you in here. You suffered with fibroids. You're nodding away, listening to Michelle there. You would now campaign for awareness of the conditions.

So let's start with your personal story. How old were you? Oh, my goodness. So when I was 14, that's when I started having my periods and they were very painful, very heavy from the jump. So my mum took me to the doctor and he said, all teenagers suffer with very heavy painful periods. But when you get to your 20s,

periods would be fine. But in my teenage years, I went on suffering, suffering, discovered the pill, went on progesterone only pill, it took away my periods. So I lived my best life because I was literally planning life around my period. So if you think about holidays, schools, I was so affected because I was doubled over in pain. So when I went on the pill, amazing. But in my 30s, I decided to come off because I thought in that decade I may want to try and have children. And as soon as I came off, I was met with the most excruciatingly painful, heavy, clotty periods. And when we're talking about clots, because I don't think we talk about this enough, I was passing fist-sized clots.

And when you're passing clots, your whole uterus is contracting and it's so painful, flooding. But when I got to the stage of being diagnosed with fibroids and I came up with all the symptoms, like what Michelle was talking about, it wasn't just heavy, painful periods. It was a whole body of mind. affected and again we don't talk about that enough. How long did it take before you got your diagnosis? So my diagnosis was very quick. The problem was my doctor, I started, the way I discovered it was I had a very dull but sharp pain in the left hand side of my abdomen. I went to my doctor and he said it's

probably got something to do with your cycle. So I was like, okay, went away, it progressed for two weeks, went back to him, he said the same thing. So I went to see a female doctor because I thought, I know my body, something's not right. She thought it was a citizen. on my ovary and sent me away for a scan. So the scan came, I mean, this is pre-COVID, about a week or two later, went and had the scan. She said, you've got two fibroids. And I was like, Phi Wafi, who, five boys?

What's that? I'm like, literally. And she goes, oh, you're going to have to go and see your doctor for that. So she didn't explain to me what fibroids were in that screening. I went back to him and he goes, yes, you've got two, four centimetre fibroids, but don't worry, they're very normal, very common, and just deal with any pain with a hot water bottle and paracetamol. And I believed him.

So I didn't, I did a very high level search and all I could see was common, normal, it's fine. But you did end up having surgery? Yes, I did. And what happened? Well, the surgery, the surgery was a lot. I had something called an open mymectomy, which resembles a C-section because diagnosed with two for six years I was dismissed by my doctor, went in and saw a gynaecologist. I always say he saved my life, re-scanned me and said. said that you have at least six fibroids, the biggest being the size of a grapefruit.

So it had distended my stomach. So I looked like I was pregnant, but couldn't fall pregnant. You couldn't fall pregnant? I couldn't fall pregnant. Because of the fibroids? Yes, but I didn't know it was fibroids because no one had explained that to me. They just said, oh, probably your age. I was in my 30s, my late 30s then.

So had the operation. He said, do you want me to show you what we took out? I said, well, yeah, show me my six. And he'd taken out 16 fibroids and left two in to give me a chance at conceiving. and that has been the toughest operation I've ever had to go through. I wouldn't wish it upon anybody. That's a serious operation. Oh, it's massive.

It's absolutely massive. And again, we just, so much of your story is, you know, you hear it again and again. This is normal. This is what it's like being a woman. You'll just have an operation. It'll be fine. You'll get over it. You know, no problem.

But these are massive operations. And how common is Dawn's story in that it takes a long time to get the diagnosis in the first place? So I think it's very common and that seems so brutal when actually diagnosing fibroids is easy in that it's an ultrasound. It's very simple. It's very straightforward. It's very cheap to the NHS. It's not something that we don't yet have a diagnosis or a test for and we can do it very easily. The time that takes so long is actually getting to the point for that doctor to say, what is going on? This isn't right. let me do some scans, let me do some tests. I'm so happy we're talking about this because I know there will be people listening

and you know because you work in the field and you're a campaigner who might be thinking, could this be me? In which case we say it all the time, advocate for yourself. Absolutely. Go and talk on, you know, put yourself out there. Like I think something that's really important to talk about

is that fibroids are more common and more severe in black women. What do we know? Again, the research, we haven't got enough research, but it has been suggested high levels of stress, food as well. We tend to relax our hair. So there's lots of chemicals. So endocrine disruptors.

We don't know for sure why. So we always say we need more studies. We need more money pumped in so we can see the reasons as to why. However, we do suffer greatly with fibroids. So bigger fibroids, more fibroids and more severe symptoms. And another big one there, as well is that we do know that vitamin D and low vitamin D levels are linked. And generally speaking, black women suffer from lower vitamin D levels related to having more

pigment in their skin. So it's definitely something that someone could go away and actually get their vitamin D levels checked. If there are people at home listening who suspect they or someone they know might have the condition, what advice should we be giving them? My first thing I always say when you go to see your GP is to ask for a GP with a special interest in women's health. We find that, with all respect to doctors, that when they go and see this person with that special interest,

you tend to be taken a little bit more seriously and you're pushed out to a specialist quicker or they're able to deal with your symptoms in the waits for that specialist consultation. So that's one thing that I will say is really important. Michelle, you've worked as a gynecologist for over 20 years and for organisations like the World Health Organisation. If the Health Secretary James Murray is listening, which we very much hope he is,

what was the one thing you'd like to ask him to do? Yeah, I think this is a great opportunity to actually look at the health for women in a much bigger, broader way. And thinking about fibroids, we need to have this conversation in public areas. So schools, we need to be looking at the training in workplaces, in hospitals and GPs. But especially around doctors and healthcare professionals, they need a lot more information and knowledge. really from the start in their training about conditions such as fibroids that can affect women and how it impacts a woman so that when a woman comes and says, this is my issue, this is what I'm suffering from, and this is what it's doing to me, that doctor straight away is like,

let's not wait, let's not push it aside, let's just actually get on, let's diagnose you, and then let's start treatment. Well, they can start by reading your books. It's very user-friendly. Don, you couldn't get pregnant, had the fibroids removed, and then, had two babies. Yay. My little blessings. Yeah.

Thank you both so much for coming on to talk about that. We have had a message in for somebody actually saying I had a hysterectomy to take out fibroids, the largest of which was a size of a seven-month fetus. Wow. Yes. I'm sure there's lots of people with stories. Keep them coming in. 848444.

Thank you, Michelle. Thank you, Dawn. Thank you so much. And I have to say if you are concerned about a medical issue, then do seek advice from your GP as you're first port of call. And we have had a statement from a spokesperson from the NHS who said, too often in the NHS we hear of women whose health concerns have been dismissed. And we're actively addressing this through education, training and improving services for women, including establishing neighbourhood health services for women in local communities, which will give

thousands more women access to specialist support. Women experiencing symptoms of fibroids, which can include heavy or painful periods, stomach pain and lower back pain, should be supported by NHS staff, and we strongly encourage any woman concerned to speak to their GP. 84844. Now, I cannot wait to hear what stories, questions and ideas you have in store for us during listener week. Last year, you brought us everything from why we dream more vividly at certain times to the everyday frustration of constantly readjusting a seatbelt when you're large busted. Maybe it's a question you've never quite found the answer to, a frustration you thought, Only you experienced or something from your own life that you think deserves a wider conversation.

It can be fun, unusual, serious or deeply personal. Whatever it is, tell us your story. Please keep them coming in. You can get in touch in the usual way. You can text us on 84844. Contact us via social media. It's at BBC Woman's Hour. And remember to listen on your smart speaker.

Just say, play radio four. And if you want to catch up with anything, you might have missed. say Alexa, ask BBC sounds to rewind to the time you want. That's if you want to listen back to anything on the programme. How did a boycott Jimmy become a billionaire from posting videos? On good, bad billionaire, we're going to find out how the world's most popular YouTuber, Mr Beast, made his fortune. He's buried himself in a coffin for days. Counted to 100,000 on camera.

And even recreated squid games all in an attempt to go viral on the internet. But it all started when he gave a homeless man, 10.000. $10,000. So is he a philanthropist re-shaping capitalism? Or is he just the king of the attention economy? Find out on good, bad billionaire. Listen on BBC.com or wherever you get your podcasts. Now, many of us are familiar with the onerous, often painful process of sorting through the wardrobes of our loved ones who've died. It raises difficult choices about what to do with all those clothes that can carry such emotional weight and evoke so many memories and associations. While some of us might want the closure of clearing everything out, others might wish that they could hang on to things or even wear them.

But perhaps the garments are unsuitable due to different size, different era, different gender, meaning they'll be forever mothballed in storage. And as well as reimagining and rewearing their clothes, there are also ways to keep their memory alive in different forms like quilts and stuffed animals. Well, here to talk about this, our designer Sophie Lewis, who set up the Reincarnation Club, a bespoke service, which reimagines elements of the late person's clothing to create new outfits from those left behind. And Pip Hausam is whose general manager of Love Keep Create,

a company that transforms cherished clothing into lasting keepsakes. Pip and Sophie, welcome to Women's Out. I have to say we've got lots of messages coming in. So I'm going to read some of those in a moment. First of all, Sophie, how do you even begin to go through items of clothing? go through a wardrobe of someone who you've loved and who's died? Well, I think it's an incredible thing to do, an incredible difficult thing to do

because every item brings up a new memory. What I would say is I think it's something that takes time. And I think you often have to work through that time before you're ready to really let go of an item. So I think all the stories that emerge as you're going through a wardrobe will just trigger memory after memory and sometimes they're wonderful

and sometimes you actually have to do it bit by bit. It's interesting that we're talking about this today whilst I've been thinking about it. It's so part of the grieving process, isn't it? It's so intimate, the items that they wore, the memories attached, the smell. It really is the smell. is something, you know, a smell memory is an instant trigger back to a time. And you're going

back to a time with somebody that you've now lost. So that really is a trigger. And I say about clothes that they are a second skin. So they actually sit very close to that person. So the idea that you're feeling and touching these items that have been with a loved one, I mean, it's incredibly, incredibly personal and sensitive. And Pip, tell me a bit about your experience when you're talking to people, meeting them. What stories are they telling you? Why do you think we find it so hard to part with those items of clothing? Yeah, we've definitely had the same experience here of family saying that it takes years and years to go through the process of getting rid of the clothing.

I just think it is one of those things that it seems such a big feat to go through. one item, it's hundreds, like you say. So tell us about your business. How are you preserving memories? So when the family are ready and they find our business, Love Keep Create, they come to us and they give us the materials and we transform them into many wonderful things, cushions, blankets, mainly teddy bears and a variety of different animals. So they can kind of be tangible, displayed pieces rather than stored away. And I can see three very sweet-looking teddy bears sitting behind you. Yeah.

What a lovely idea, because obviously, especially now, people have a lot of clothes. And so there'll be some really meaningful pieces that you want to keep. But other things that, you know, maybe you don't want to give everything to charity, so you can transform them into something different. Sophie, tell me about your company, because you do something a little bit different, don't you? Yeah. I mean, I transform items of clothing into new items of clothing. But the reason why it's called Reincarnation Club is because often people have a memorable item in their wardrobe,

which is too special for them to give to a charity shop, but too impractical to wear. I mean, my mother-in-law, for example, my father-in-law, who was a wonderfully natty dresser, passed away. a few years ago and my mother-in-law had a jacket of his which was a red tailcoat and it was a time in which he was the captain of the golf club now this tailcoat was uh moth-eaten and a bit tired but it meant so much to him and so much to her that she thought i don't i don't know what to do with this i can't bring myself to give it away but at the same time i'm i'm never going to wear it And so I said to her, well, why don't you give it to me? I'll see what I can do. And I recut it. I took the enormous shoulders off. She's a very elegant lady. He was a big man.

I took the enormous shoulders off. I took the tails off and turned it into a wonderful tailored jacket for her, gave it some new sleeves and returned it to her. And she was absolutely thrilled. What was her reaction? She was thrilled and amazed. amazed that it could be transformed in that way. And the fact that she could then go out to a party wearing this red jacket and talk to people about it. And the wonderful thing is when people say, oh, I love your jacket, it gave her an opportunity to talk about her husband. Yeah, lovely.

Also, just the fact that he had a red tailcoat. Well, I want to know about him instantly. I mean, who's the guy that's wearing the red tail coat? And also, she says, my lovely, must say, My daughter-in-law made it from. I mean, what they'll have kind of added twist that it's someone within the family. Yeah. And what, Pip, what are people telling you? What's their reaction when you hand back a quilt or a teddy made from the items that they've brought? Yeah, the reactions are mostly emotional, but in a good way, I think, to have something that they can hold again.

Physically, like you were saying, it's got all those sorts of senses. It's not just the visual, is it? It's the sensory touch. it's all those things. So some customers, when they come to see us in person, they don't want to open it in front of us anyway, kind of take it away as a private moment, and some customers do.

But it's that nice human connection moment where they, again, get to keep those stories alive and talk about the family members and the memories of each individual item. Yeah, I'm going to read out a couple of messages because lots are coming through. 844-8-4. My son, Aidan, died in January.

at the age of 23. I'm so sorry to hear that. I sent his shirts to my friends who made them into hundreds of padded hearts with his initials on them. They sit in the palm of your hand. We gave them out at his funeral and since then people have taken them all over the world

and send us a photo. It's cheered us immensely. That is... How beautiful. Yes. Tell me your reaction to that. Yeah. Yeah, it's just beautiful. Like there was nothing else

that was going to be done and then you're managing to give people that extra bit of comfort. It's amazing. What is it about clothes and our connection with them? Why do you think, Sophie, they mean so much, so many people? Well, I think that they're the sort of living articulation of who a person is.

So even if people think, I always say that I adore clothes, not necessarily fashion, because clothes are really universal. or everyone has to get dressed in the morning, unless they're a naturest, but everyone has to get dressed in the morning. And to do so is a series of choices. So when you see somebody,

even if they're thinking they're not interested in clothes, there is something which tells the story of that person, just in how they put together an outfit or choose not to put together an outfit. You know, that's as much information as somebody who's really fascinated by clothes. So I think there is this human connection that, you know, what I love about reincarnating clothes is in order for me to design something for somebody,

they need to tell me the story of their lost loved one, that they will emote about them. And then so I hear about their loved one, and I also hear about them, because I will combine the thought of who that person was with what do you use? you actually like to wear? How do you feel about clothes? How do you feel about your body? All of those things, it's the combination of the story of the lost love one with the story of that person now and then

taking all that ingredients, all that love and those, that memory and putting it together to make something new. And this idea came about because you were working for a charity in a charity shop. That's right. It was because I was working in a charity shop and I noticed that lots of people brought in donations and they said, oh, there's a bag of donations here. And they'd sort of linger, and you could tell that they wanted to tell you some things about them. And they wanted to say that, you know, they'd done a house clearance of perhaps their mother or father. And they wanted to share the story of the items with you. But of course, in a charity shop, there isn't that space or time. So part of the process is listening to those stories. And the stories just fall out

of the pockets of those clothes, you know. And Pip, this is also a way of making sure more clothes don't end up in landfill. Yeah, exactly. A strong kind of BFOS that we have is to go forward with an, you know, eco mindset as such. Because there's so many things with the fast fashion now that clothing is, I guess it falls apart quicker or that people don't want to wear something old. So to give it that other bit of life is really important to us. And we try and make sure the rest of our company is as eager forward as we can be as well.

I'm going to read some more messages out because we have got lots. My auntie took my nan's favourite summer dress and made us seven granddaughters small fabric keywings as keepsakes. That's from Zara. That's love, isn't it? And Rose Webster's been in search. said our daughter Hattie died last year. Her sister, Jessie, chose one of her jackets, which was beautifully embroidered

with all of Hattie's tattoos in their correct places. This is a wonderful and emotional keepsake for all of us. Now, that's something so specific, isn't it? Amazing, amazing, yeah. And I love the specificity of that. I mean, the idea that actually you're reminded of that person every time you put that jacket on. I mean, it's wonderful that.

Another one here. My friend commissioned a teddy bear maker, Here you go, Pip, same as you, a teddy bear maker to create four beautiful patchwork bears out of their late mom's clothes for all the children and grandchildren to remember her by. These are lovely ideas. Yeah, we often get that for the grandchildren, especially like when they think, oh, but they never got to have such a connection perhaps with the grandparents. It gives them something of the grandparents. So we often get like large orders for the grandchildren, which is lovely. I still have my father's dressing gown.

After 10 years, it was a memory of him every day sitting having his breakfast. It's hard to let go of it. I wonder how I could use it and not just have it in the wardrobe from Jenny. Go on, Sophie. What should Jenny do with dad's dressing gown? I would say there's a fantastic amount of fabric in a dressing gown that could be repurposed and made into something that she could wear daily. I mean, that's one of the other things is actually turning.

that dressing gown into the back of a jacket or the front of a skirt, you then actually elongate the life of that item. So you're not just wearing it around the house. You can take it out of the house. And that just actually extends the life of the item. And as I said before, allows you to tell the story of your dad and his wonderful dressing gown. And then another one here that says, my husband died suddenly when he was 29, leaving me and our eight-month-old baby. I couldn't even look at his wardrobe for months afterwards. I kept his favourite clothes, his rugby kit and wedding suit for our son.

It's still hard four years later. Something like that changes you as a person forever. But then the importance of keeping hold of those items, the rugby kit. You know, things that really just remind you that that was him. Yeah, yeah. And some items will remain like that. You know, and I think it's really important to respect. I always say to people, are you happy for this to be reincarnated?

Because effectively you're taking a pair of scissors to something. And there are some items which shouldn't be reincarnated. There are other items that you go, that has absolutely transformed my life and that piece. So, but I'm instantly, when I hear these stories and these people calling in, I'm instantly, I have more questions, you know, know, I want to hear about what was that, what does that dressing gown look like, you know, those tattoos where I need to see them, I need to see them, I don't know, it just fills my mind

with more questions. Which is why what you and Pip do is so wonderful, because not only are you kind of breathing new life into these treasured possessions and memories that are so meaningful to the people who are keeping hold of them, but also you want to know about the person. You do, you do. And that's what it ultimately, it's key. keeping the memories alive. Absolutely.

And those stories. This has been such a lovely conversation. Thank you both of you, Sophie Lewis and Piphausen. Thank you. Thank you. 8444. Keep your messages coming in. I'll try and read a few more before the end of the program.

Now, is it correct to assume that a former elite athlete is always healthy? Well, an ongoing research project from the University of Edinburgh is exploring just that by looking at the current health status of retired female Olympians and how this compares to females in the general population. Well, joining me to discuss this, our lead researcher, Dr. Lauren Guilfoyle, and world European and Commonwealth medalist and five-time Olympian long-distance runner Joe Pavey.

Lauren and Joe, welcome. Lauren, let's come to you first. It's a year since you started on this. What's the objective of the research? What are you trying to figure out? Yeah, so there's pretty much three key objectives. The first main objective really is to understand the health of retired female Olympians without really understanding what those challenges are

and I suppose the breadth and frequency of those challenges we can't do anything really to address them so that's our primary objective and secondly I think it's a great opportunity it's a fantastic cohort of individuals to learn from and these people have entered into elite careers they've had their elite careers and they've also exited out the other side and they're very much in a fantastic position to give us a perspective on what potentially is the long term benefits and or consequences of sport at that level. And that will help us to evolve the behaviours, the environments that we present for currently active elite female athletes. And finally, you know, this space is predominated by research into retired male elite athletes. So it's a fantastic

opportunity to fill those gaps and look at it from a female perspective. So what have you found out already? Yeah, so over the last year, a lot of the last year has been pretty much setting up our study, analysing some data that we've already had previously. Some of our steering group has published some data within this space, within Canadian samples, Australian samples. And I suppose what we know so far is that the Musculoskeletal Health of Retired Female Olympians differs from male Olympians. It's worse in some respects across a couple of joints. And we also know that some of those musculoskeletal health outcomes differ compared to the female general population too, and that's primarily across the neck, the lower back, the hip and the knee. When it comes to mental health, we have some,

I suppose, more positive findings. When we look at male retired elite athletes and Olympians, their mental health seems to be somewhat worse than the male general population, but some of her data is actually telling us that it's pretty much on par for female Olympians, for retired elite athletes, that when they retire from their career, that their mental health seems to, I suppose, be somewhat similar or unparred to the general population. So, yeah. I know, just back to the sort of pelvic floor,

what is it that you've discovered and how does it compare to the general population? Yes, so we have some very small data sets right now, but it's really quite interesting. And our colleagues in Australia have identified some pretty stark stats in relation to anal incontinence, urinary incontinence. So a group of 200 Australian retired lead athletes, 50% of them reported symptoms of urinary incontinence,

sorry, anal incontinence and 70% actually reported symptoms of urinary incontinence. So quite high. We don't have, I suppose, large data sets from the general population just yet to be able to compare this against, but that's very much what this study that we're now looking into is about to do. And have you done some research into the fertility? window as well. Yeah, so again, it's something that we, our colleagues, have done some work into and that we're hoping to add to with a larger data set to ensure that we have

strong foundations for these findings. But around fertility, kind of what we have early indications of, and I will, you know, take a pinch of salt with a lot of this, considering it is quite, you know, new and emerging evidence. But we're starting to see that the age of first-time mothers from the elite female athlete population is older and potentially that's more sociological, I suppose, in terms of women historically have had to wait until they've retired from their sport to have their first child. So on average, it's about three years older than the general population. And then on the flip side,

what we're seeing is some indications of earlier onsets of menopause. So the average age of the onset of menopause is 52 years. And some of our data from our colleagues would suggest that it's about 49 and 50. So it's a little bit earlier, which does give us some indications of these narrower fertility windows. And hopefully we can add to that with the study that we're currently working on. Joe, I'm going to bring you in, but before we discuss how familiar or not this research sounds to you so far, for those of you who need a reminder that besides the countless wins and medals and being an Olympian five times, in 2016, you famously came back to take part and win the European Championships 10,000 metres just over the age of 40,

making history as the oldest female gold medalist to do so. and only 10 months after giving birth. I mean, unbelievable. So what are your thoughts on what Lauren is saying so far? You know, being an elite athlete, I bet, is an incredible experience. But thinking about you and your ex-teammates, have the women you know and who may be retired, struggled in any way. Yeah, I mean, firstly, like you say,

I'm very fortunate to have been an athlete. I've had many positive and great experiences. And I think the research that Lauren's doing is absolutely brilliant. brilliant because there are differences obviously in the female body and I've been quite fortunate. I've had many years in the sport but I have had teammates who've had very short careers. Their careers have been ended through injury and a lot of this is to do with Red S, which is relative energy deficiency in sport, which means they've been under-fueling. It means they have problems with cessation of the menstrual cycle.

They have problems with therefore the eastern levels which leads to stress fractures but also a massive impact on their bone health in later life. And then they've continued to have problems with their bone health due to more risk of osteoporosis, things like that. I've also had friends that have had problems with their pelvic floor, which has also affected their mental health. They haven't been able to continue running into their later years. But, yeah, there has been problems.

And I think it's important to do this research because for women, their hormonal profiles, their physiology is so different to a man's and a lot of it to do with the hormone levels, mental cycle, that, you know, creates different health problems for women. For me personally, my knees and tendons of that seem to really take a knock when I got into menopause, you know, and that's a big factor for women as they retire in sport as well. And I think, you know, it's really good the research law is doing

because of those differences for women and women's mental health as well. And in your career and in your lifetime, I mean, the conversation from is really kind of progressing now. And even then, we're still right at the beginning of all the research that's being done. So I'm just thinking about you as a teen and the little you knew then and the more you know now and how it might have impacted you earlier on in your career. Just things as simple as diets and overtraining. Yeah, definitely.

And I think that's what's good about this research because my husband and I involved in coaching young athletes and a lot of young female athletes. And it's about making sure they fuel, making sure they have the right training patterns, the right advice. They're not over-training. They're looking after their health later on in their lives. And also just strategies, education for coaches, as well as the athletes going forward nationally and schemes to make sure that's looked after, as well as looking after their mental well-being post-sport as well. There's a lot of work that can come from the research, definitely. Yeah. So Lauren, who's already taken part?

and what needs to happen now? Do you need more people to get in touch? Yeah, absolutely. There's two main groups that we're looking to take part in this research. We have the retired female Olympians, and to date, over 350 have participated so far, which is fantastic. It's quite a long survey, so it does take a bit of time.

But what's really, really key to this research is the general population. We need women from all walks of life to participate in a slightly similar, a slightly different survey. And that's key to understanding, well, what are the different trends for retired female Olympians? How do they differ from the general population? So what we need is women,

anyone over the age of 18, that has not participated in the Olympic Games, nor is ever likely to. So it does capture quite a broad range. And there's a short online survey that will take between 20 to 30 minutes, and that is huge. and it's really, really important because it's that that will strengthen the findings of this work

and bring it to the next level. Bring it to the next level and bring it to the next generation and all the work that Joe's doing. Thank you so much both of you for enlightening us about that, Dr. Lauren Guilfoy and Joe Pavey. I'm going to read out another one of your messages here. It says if you can't keep all the clothes, then as you work through the pile, Keep a journal. Take each item, spend some time with it, ask what memories it evokes, and write them down. I feel like I'm my family storykeeper, and I do this with clothes and objects, as it's the memories that are precious. And that's from Carmen in Saltburn.

Now, singer Bonnie Tyler, one of the most recognizable voices in popular music, has died at the age of 75 following an illness, according to a statement just released by her family. The Welsh star was best known for hits including Holding Out for a Hero, it's a heartache and her biggest hit, Total Eclipse of the Heart. That was released in 1983 and topped the charts on both sides of the Atlantic. Bonnie received a Grammy nomination for the hit. She told BBC News, I never get tired of singing it. I love it because everyone can't wait to sing it. Join us tomorrow for more Woman's Hour.

That's all for today's Woman's Hour. Join us again next time. Silence in court. I'm Lucy Worsley, and in my brand new series, I'll be hearing about the women involved in some of history's most infamous legal battles. Women accused of murder, bigamy, and adultery.

Through to the shocking offence of not knowing their place. With a team of all female detectives, I'll explore the lives at the centre of some extraordinary courtroom dramas, asking, has the justice system? The custom truly changed. Lady on trial with Lucy Wersley. From BBC Radio 4, listen now on BBC Sounds.

How did a boycott Jimmy become a billionaire from posting videos? On good, bad billionaire, we're going to find out how the world's most popular YouTuber, Mr Beast, made his fortune. He's buried himself in a coffin for days. Counted to 100,000 on camera. And even recreated squid games all in an attempt to go viral on the internet. But it all started when he gave a homeless man. $10,000. So is he a philanthropist re-shaping capitalism? Or is he just the king of the attention economy? Find out on good bad billionaire. Listen on BBC.com or wherever you get your

podcasts.