Woman's Hour - Simone Ashley, Being fostered with your siblings, Driving instructors

Episode Date: February 28, 2025

Simone Ashley plays Kate Sharma in one of Netflix's biggest shows, Bridgerton, and also graced our screens in groundbreaking comedy Sex Education. She joins Anita Rani to talk about her new romcom, Picture This, the resurgence of the movie genre and Bridgerton’s success. An investigation by BBC Humberside has been hearing from young women who've experienced inappropriate behaviour from their driving instructors. We're joined by BBC reporter Jasmine Lowe and Debbie Beadle, the CEO of the charity Fear Free, as they launch a campaign to get the position of trust law governing teachers and social workers extended to cover driving instructors too. Listener Emma Shaw got in touch with Woman's Hour after hearing author Beth Moran discuss fostering on the programme. She joins us to share her own experience of being fostered alongside her siblings, along with Sarah Thomas, CEO of The Fostering Network, a charity that supports both foster parents and children.Presenter: Anita Rani Producer: Sarah Jane Griffiths

This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK. I'm Natalia Melman-Petruzzella, and from the BBC, this is Extreme. Peak Danger. The most beautiful mountain in the world. If you die on the mountain, you stay on the mountain. This is the story of what happened when 11 climbers died on one of the world's deadliest mountains, K2, and of the risks it will take to feel truly alive.

If I tell all the details, you won't believe it anymore. Extreme peak danger. Listen wherever you get your podcasts. Hello, this is Nuala McGovern and you're listening to the Woman's Hour podcast. Hello and welcome to the programme. Anita is ill today, so instead you have me. So this hour, hold on to your Bridgerton bonnet. Kate Sharma will be here in a moment, meaning of course, actress Simone Ashley, who is one of its stars. Simone is also in a new rom-com Picture This that she has executive produced. And she has talked about being inspired by the 2002 film Bend It Like Beckham. It also got us thinking about formative films on this Oscar weekend. Right,

for me, I think it was Dirty Dancing. Yes, I know every word of the dialogue. And I could indulge my fantasies of being a dancer that were never realized. Other films that left a lifelong impression from the Woman's Hour team this morning as I asked was Parent Trap, Heathers, Mulholland Drive, all for different reasons. But what about you? What is your formative film and why? You can text the programme 84844 on social media we're at BBC Woman's Hour or you can email us through our website for a WhatsApp message or a voice note the number is 03700 100 444. Also today we have a listener Emma and she got in touch with us after hearing our item

about fostering, particularly on trying to keep siblings together. Emma was fostered with her three siblings and she's going to tell us her story this hour. I'm looking forward to meeting her. Did you see this headline? Maybe unexpected this morning. Katy Perry is going on an all female space mission. So we want to talk about that. Does this trip, kind of the tourist space trip,

help achieve gender equality in the space industry? I'm looking forward to having that discussion as well and bringing it to you. Some people are really delighted with it, some wondering is it a publicity stunt? We'll talk about it. Also, self-described misogynist Andrew Tate and his brother have arrived back in the United States. This is after Romanian prosecutors allowed them to leave. Our social media investigations correspondent Marianna Spring will be with us in studio to discuss the impact of that decision online. Plus, we'll talk about a new campaign that is calling for driving instructors to be legally defined as positions of trust as they work with young drivers. But let us begin with my next guest who has been in one of the most watched shows on Netflix. I'm

speaking about actor Simone Ashley who plays Kate Sharma in Bridgerton and now she will be from next week gracing our screens in a new romantic comedy Picture This. In Picture This, she plays Pia, who runs her own photography studio in East London with her best friend, Jay. But before her sister's wedding, Pia gets a prediction that she will find true love in the next five dates that she goes on. It's really fun. I got to watch it last night.

It is a proper rom com. Simone, welcome to Woman's Hour. Hi. Thank you for having me. Good to have you. So I was mentioning the formative films to our listeners there. 84844, if you want to get in touch. But you have talked about some of the influences like Bridget Jones or Bendis like Beckham. And I think Pia, this feisty, independent woman who is the protagonist, who is your character, in Picture This, there's bound to be some influences

coming in there. Yes, definitely. I think just as you said, that world of Bridget Jones and that chaotic nature was something that really influenced this character. And I grew up watching Bend It Like Beckham And that chaotic nature was something that really influenced this character. And I grew up watching Bend It Like Beckham and it was a classic for me as it was for everyone. So that was another influence for me too. I was always such a fan of those classic 90s rom-coms, my best friend's wedding, anything

with Cameron Diaz or Julia Roberts. I always wanted to be one of those girls. So you know, to bring it into British culture, modern day, with South Asian family being the centre of the narrative, I just had so much fun bringing this to life. And I'm wondering how it is to play a character like Pia, because it's a sort of slapstick comedy at times, you talk about that chaos. Was that challenging? I would say, generally speaking,

the only challenge that I found when doing like a slapstick comedy or rom-com, sometimes the simpler something is, the bigger the challenge. And the simpler objective was to just convey joy, to make people smile, to make people feel warm and joyful and laugh. And that's something, the challenge was

to just get out of my head and not overthink it and to kind of stay true to that simplicity. Do you know what I mean? Yes I do. I think when it comes to the subject of love in a romance, like a rom-com, you just got to let it be. Do you know what I mean? But it's very modern. This is the thing that struck me and I want to talk about why we feel rom-coms are so front and centre now as well. You mentioned some of the 90s ones there as I did as well.

But the language that's used, whether it's and also some of the logistics of modern day dating, whether it's apps, for example, or that that all comes into it as well. Was it fun to sit down and think about, I don't know, some of the perils of modern dating and how to incorporate them into picture this? Yeah, I mean, what I loved about Pia is that she is, she's very hot headed, passionate, feisty, you know, character. And that's something that I get really excited about when I find characters with all these kinds of traits.

Do you have them? Yeah, definitely. Of course, yeah, I would proudly say I'm that kind of person. And, you know, she's so fixated with certain things in her life that she kind of like becomes her own obstacle and she kind of needs to get over that obstacle, get over herself to maybe learn something new. And I think one of the lines in the movie she says that really speaks out to everyone I feel is, you know, she thought being independent meant being alone. And she really learns that that isn't the case. And I think that's such a great thing about this film. I think that's a great thing to take away.

And there's also as well, you talk about South Asian representation and portrayal that she's coming up against, and maybe some of our listeners as well might think about this from whatever their background might be when they come from a more traditional or more conservative background from what the life that they're living that kind of traditional culture versus the modern girl. How did you think about how to portray that or how important was it to get that across? I think it's just staying true to my heritage and my experience of it and listening to everyone else involved in the film, their experience of it. I think it was important to not make fun of the culture and to actually anything that was comedic was just coming from a place of character. So

universally speaking anyone could laugh or engage with the comedy. It wasn't because we were making fun of anything. If anything we were celebrating the culture. It is that to not make fun of it but to be funny and to bring that across which I really. And you have amazing co-actors as well within this film. Something that I loved is the dancing in this film. And I was like, did you have to learn that or are you a dancer anyway? Yeah, we did have to learn that. I can move.

I wouldn't say I'm a dancer. You heard it here, she can move. I can move. Luke Featherstone who plays Jay, he I would say is the dancer. He can dance. Anushka who plays my sister, she's a dancer. So yeah, I was really nervous. So we got into lots of rehearsals and just made sure we got it down so I could just have some fun with it. So these are very elaborate, very colorful, very beautiful dance scenes that are taking place at an Indian wedding. And I was wondering, when

you film those scenes, Simone, are they as much fun as it looks or is it like stop start, stop start, stop start? The dance scenes? Yeah, because one scene that's, you know, and is there any more fun place than the dance floor at a wedding? Mm-hmm. No, for particular film, it was actually really fun. We we just had to keep doing it again and again for like, I don't know, a certain window of time. I really enjoyed it. I had so much fun doing it. Yeah, it looks beautiful, I have to say.

So so well done on all that. You have as your mother, the brilliant Cindy V. And she talks about the characters, your characters, grandmother, her mother, that there wasn't a place for a woman like that in society. But I suppose talking about the change that there is now, but do you feel there still is that pressure on young women to get married by a certain age or have children in their future. I think maybe there's still that pressure, but I think the focus is kind of elsewhere now.

I think there is room for women in society to fulfil shoes of anything, really, or they're on their way to kind of fulfilling those shoes. I think more young women have people to look up to. More role models. Exactly and I think more young women are entering spaces where they feel like they belong more than it was in the past. So I think I wouldn't say it's far from perfect but I definitely think we're on a journey there and us having this conversation in itself is part of that journey. So I think, I wouldn't say it's far from perfect, but I definitely think we're on a journey there. And us having this conversation in itself is part of that journey.

Yeah. So you have pictured this, this is coming out and that is fantastic. Lots of people, of course, will know you, as I mentioned, from Bridgerton. What a hit that was, right? So season two and three, you play Kate Sharma, who becomes Bridgerton, played by Jonathan Bailey. I'm just wondering what that was like as a woman, as an actor, getting this part and the before and after of your life. I mean, when fame explodes in that way, because we never know what series is going to be this massive hit that that makes you a household name.

Yeah, it did change my life and it's something that I'll really cherish in my heart forever, that show and what it did for me and it opened so many doors for me and hopefully it's starting to open doors for more women that look like me. And yeah, I, a lot of my dreams are coming true, you know, so it's been the most positive, amazing thing. And gosh, it feels like so long ago that, that era where, you know, that show came out and my life really did turn upside down a little bit. What is it that happens because most of us will never be in that position. Is it just that you start getting

recognised down the street? Or that you have to, I don't know, that you can't go out in sloppy grey sweatpants or something without somebody taking a photograph? Yeah, I mean, of course. It depends where your focus is and I think throughout everything

that goes on in my life my work and my craft is such a big, that's one of my biggest loves you know and I think it's just staying focused on that and having fun with it but I would say yeah that era of my life was very crazy but I was so lucky to have people around me that grounded me, my friends, family, loved ones of people around me that grounded me, my friends, family, loved ones. And now I'm in a completely different era. It's kind of ironic, actually. I'm promoting a rom-com and as of January this year, I've been entering my single era, so I'm focusing on me and focusing on my work and my

inner confidence. And so it feels like a different chapter from when Bridgerton came out, where things were just so crazy, and I was surrounded by all these things. And now I feel like I'm strong and so focused in just putting it all into my work and myself. Yeah, and I suppose that experience as well brings you to the next level of understanding what you want to do. Now I heard little Dicky Bird tell me that music is in your future as well. Tell us a little bit about that. So I have been working with my producer, Fraser T.

Smith, and I would say for about a year now, just under a year. And we've been in the studio and we're recording and, yeah, I'm going to be releasing my first album. So I'm very as a singer? As a singer, yeah. Ah, so it's not so you can move as well as sing. I'm beginning to see the multi-talented layer. How was that? It's well, it's still going, it's gonna be a long process. It's one of the best things I think I've ever done. I'm so excited and so proud of what we're doing. And it's, you know, I think it's channeling my craft and my work

and everything that I want to do with my art in a different way. What sort of music? Pop. Okay. And there's probably, it's not either or, but how does this differ to acting or what does it give you perhaps that acting does not? I think the setting and the circumstances are very different. You know when you're filming a movie you're on set surrounded by a crew usually you're taking, you know you're not directing or you're not the lead producer so you are somewhat, you're not directing or you're not the lead producer. So you are somewhat, you're having to,

you haven't got as much creative control, I would say. You know, you're taking direction and you're doing your job and it's a really collaborative experience and you're telling stories wherever you're filming in the world, but for music, it's, you know, it's something that for me, it's been really personal, kind of everything that I'm putting into my music, and you have a lot more creative control,

and it's still storytelling. Yes, which is interesting, a space story we're doing later on, they pick these women to go to space like Katy Perry, etc. because of their storytelling ability, just bringing it around full circle. But I've asked about your influences when it came to films, and particularly executive producing. With music, who is it? What was that?

Sorry, who influenced you music wise? Yeah, yeah. I think I've always sang since I was younger. I always looked up to Sade, Alicia Keys. Sade, that kind of sound. Country music I grew up with because I spent a lot of time in California when I was younger. So yeah, loads of different influences. So now I have the acting, I have the dancing, I have the singing, and I want to turn to fashion because I have noticed when you turn up at a fashionable event

Whether that's a show or something else. You are invariably photographed by all the magazines What do clothes mean to you? Clothes are another form of someone else's craft and their art. So it's an honor to wear someone's work, you know and quite a few of my friends one of my best friends is a fashion designer and I see, you know, it's the same as me being on a film set or in a studio, in a fashion studio and everything that they do. It's very similar, you know, they're putting it into the clothes. And I love it. I love expressing myself.

I love coming out in my heels and getting all dressed up. I really enjoy it. I feel my most confident self when I'm just walking around with my dog in my sweatpants, or if I'm out in a full look, I feel very empowered. So we know you're going to be in the next season of Bridgerton. We know picture this is coming out March 6th, I believe. You said you're still on the album, but when can we expect it? That's something I'd like to confirm quite soon. I can't right now. Do you have a name for the album yet?

I do and I will keep that for when we announce it. Maybe we'll have you back performing. Yeah, I would love to. In the gorgeous Woman's Hour studio. Many have come before you. It'd be good to have you back. Simone, Ashley, thank you very much for joining me. As I mentioned, Picture This is available to watch on Amazon Prime Video

and that will be from Thursday the 6th of March. Thank you. You're so welcome. Want to read some of the films that have come in that you've mentioned? Joan says my favorite film, many of the lines from the script have become family sayings is Moonstruck. Oh yeah sure. We watch the DVD every Christmas. Joan, my favorite film many of, oh no Moonstruck sorry, that's the same way again. Rhiannon from Chester says her formative film is My Girl. I remember being around 11 or 12 travelling to Ireland on a ferry and watching it on the on-boat cinema.

It was one of the first times I felt complete emotional overwhelm of a film as I cried my eyes out at the ending 84844. If you want to get in touch with what women's are about your formative film. But I want to move on this morning and talk about the Tate brothers, Andrew and Tristan. They have arrived in the United States after Romanian prosecutors lifted a travel ban. The controversial British American social media influencers had been under a travel ban in Romania for more than two years after they were charged with rape and human

trafficking in 2022. They have strongly denied all allegations against them. Romanian authorities have stressed that the case against them has not been dropped and that they remain under judicial control, meaning they have to regularly report to authorities and are expected to return to Romania. In the UK, they face unrelated charges of rape and human trafficking, which they also deny. Separately, four British women have filed a civil case against Andrew Tate, that's in the UK High Court, alleging that he raped and coercively controlled them. Tate denies all the allegations against him. Matthew Durie is a solicitor who

represents those four women. Let's listen to what he had to say. I don't think they'll ever face justice in Romania now. I think Romania should be embarrassed and ashamed for having let them leave. I think it's fanciful to think that they'll return. The big question now is, will they face justice in the UK? There is an extradition request by the UK authorities for the Tate's extradition to England. That request was made to Romania and approved. A similar request must now be made to the US for their immediate extradition.

That was solicitor Matthew Jury. The Tate brothers' online output was controversial even before these legal troubles, with the pair attracting frequent criticism over offensive statements about women. Police in the UK have linked Andrew Tate to the radicalisation of boys and young men in a 2024 report into violence against women and girls. And here to discuss what their return to the US might mean in terms of their influence on social media and on boys and young men is the BBC social media investigations correspondent Marianna Spring. Welcome back to Women's Hour. Thank you for having me. Well for those

unfamiliar with the content that Andrew Tate and his brother Tristan post, could you give us a brief reminder? Yes so Andrew Tate might have appeared on perhaps a wider audience's radar, so people listening to Women's Hour, because a couple of summers ago, clips of him and his brother talking about, often talking about luxurious lifestyles, how you can make lots of money, cars began popping up across social media, particularly on kind of popular video sharing sites like TikTok, for example. And there were other more controversial clips where they would talk about women specifically, liken women to property, use graphic language to describe violence against women. And it was at that time that there was a wider reckoning, as you described,

police, other people, teachers, parents, really concerned about the impact that this content could have. Quite a few of the social media companies, including TikTok, who I just mentioned, took action over that kind of content, but since then Andrew Tate's online influence and his brother's too, only seems to have increased rather than decreased. And how did that happen? So a lot of that is about some of the decisions that the social media companies have made. So at the time there was a moment after the summer holidays a couple of years ago where there was a lot of pressure on the companies, they removed some of the

content linked to the Tate brothers, they actually removed their profiles from some of the major social media sites and a lot of this content wasn't necessarily coming from their profiles but from effectively fan accounts, you know, groups of accounts that were good at amplifying these kinds of videos. After that there were a few changes in the social media world. One of the most significant ones was that Elon Musk bought Twitter which we now call X or which he renamed X and there was a decision to reinstate Andrew Tate's account. He was actually one of the later accounts to be reinstated during Elon Musk's tenure,

which he remains very much in charge at X. And now Andrew Tate's reach on that site, including while he's been under investigation for some of these very serious charges, which he and his brother Denai, has just increased exponentially. He can get millions and millions of views on some of these posts and he's also returned or some of his content has returned to other social media sites too. Interesting, so I think when we were looking at more than 10 million followers for Andrew Tate on X, but I'm wondering with the end of this travel

ban back in the United States, what reaction are you seeing online? Andrew Tate has a very committed group of followers across social media sites, but particularly on X. And I should say as well that one of the reasons for reinstating him that Elon Musk gave was this desire to prioritize freedom of expression above all else. And some of the people who support Andrew Tate are very much of that view. They believe he should be free, he should be able to say what he wants to say. He's been particularly effective at reaching out to younger men online and some of those followers have been posting, rejoicing essentially, the decision for him to head to the United

States. There are other people there, as you can imagine, who are not feeling quite so elated by that decision. And when you talk about social media, X obviously is one, but I'm thinking the teenage boys in that. I'm not thinking of them on X so much. That's not where they're finding them, is it? It's interesting because a lot of this stuff is pretty pervasive across the main site. So it might pop up on TikTok or Instagram Reels, but it's also then on X. And everything kind of bleeds over

into different sites. The world that Andrew Tate kind of sits at the center of at the moment is something that we often call the Manosphere, so it's this kind of intersection of all kinds of different content and creators who essentially are pro men, for want of a better word, and set themselves up very much in opposition to women and actively express a dislike for women, which Andrew Tate himself has said that he is a self-proclaimed misogynist, although his definition of that term would perhaps be different to the objective definition of that term.

That's interesting. You mention people online also, those that are rejoicing, but those who are distressed or very disappointed that this has taken place. Is there any counter movement to Andrew Tate if that makes any sense? There is to some extent. I mean as you can imagine there are lots of women who've very actively posted about their upset and disgust in some cases about the decision to reinstate him on the site and more broadly his social media influence. But actually I think this is really important to say, I've spoken to not just people who work within the social media companies about this and the rise of this kind of content, but also to teenagers and teenage boys who do not like this content. And I think that's really important

to say that this isn't to say that all young men online are loving this kind of thing. I spoke to an 18-year-old called Kai who told me for a Panorama investigation I did, who told me all about how much he hates being pushed that kind of content online and how upsetting it was to see friends who he really likes drawn into that world and it actively changing their attitudes towards women. And so I think there's a really important conversation to be had not only about you know questions for the social media companies and how kids who don't want to see this stuff can be exposed to it, but also actually a wider conversation that allows young men like Kai to turn around and talk to their teachers, their parents and their friends and say, actually, just because I'm targeted and recommended this stuff by the

algorithms, it doesn't mean I want to see it because those algorithms prioritize often content that is controversial, that gets eyeballs, that gets clicks. But just because you're being recommended it, it doesn't mean that it's intended for you. And so I think if you're sitting there today, maybe as a parent thinking, how do I talk to my kids about this kind of stuff? I think it's important that they do understand that just because it's recommended to you, that's because it will get more eyeballs and ultimately it makes the companies more money, the social media companies, they can sell adverts. It doesn't mean that it's meant for you and you should

like it and I think it's important that young men realise that. Marianna Spring, the BBC social media investigations correspondent, thank you so much for joining us. I've been asking you about your films, formative films this morning. Here's Jo, she says, my film is The Big Chill, a film about friendships forged in university, love and loss with a fabulous soundtrack. I go back to it over and over again. If you want to get in touch, 84844 is the way to do it. Now, you might remember author Bette Moran appearing on Woman's Hour. This was back in December and she was talking about her new book, It Hought to Be You,

which had been inspired by her experience as a foster parent. She told us this story about fostering siblings. We were already gearing up to have more. We then got a phone call from Social Services saying we've had four children, brothers and sisters, who've been at the police station all day. There's nowhere for them to go. Could you have one or two? And we just felt like we said, at the time we didn't even have four bedrooms, we didn't even have four beds, but we said, look, we've got camp beds. If they've literally got nowhere else to go tonight, we would love to keep these children together. And they all came again an hour later, lots of running around making up beds and getting things sorted.

And we, it was love at first sight. Love at first sight. Well, we had a huge response to that interview, lots of you getting in touch, including our listener Emma Shaw, who told us about her experience with her three siblings. I'm delighted to say I'm joined by her now to hear more of her story. Emma, welcome to Woman's Hour. Thank you for having me on. Hi. So you commented on Beth's video that we had put up on the Woman's Hour social media sites and it had a huge response. Do you want to tell our listeners what you said in that comment about your experience? Yes, so obviously Beth was explaining how her and her husband, you know, took all these siblings together and I basically just commented that that's what my foster parents did with myself, my three siblings and yeah, like you said, it got quite a lot of attention, you know,

lots of likes and people saying how wonderful it was and 1000s Yes, yeah, I was quite overwhelmed with it really, as were my foster parents when I told them they couldn't believe it. But yeah, so it's just, I just wanted to kind of, you know, highlight the fact that these situations do happen and it can have a happy outcome. Let's hear a little off your story then. You were placed in a foster home but originally split up. Can you talk us through just the trajectory of what happened? Yes, so we were placed in foster care, I believe I was eight years old, and initially it was myself and my elder sister placed in a home in one part of town locally,

and then my elder brother and my younger sister placed together in another home in the same town but you know sort of opposite ends really. We would have contact I think it was probably weekly, certainly birthdays etc spent together as much as possible but yeah ideally you know social services wanted us all to to be placed together because we you know quite close in age and we my younger sister was very very young at that point as well. And then coming back together, tell us about that particular home. Yeah, so we were taken out for a lunch with our social workers all together and they just sort of said to us, how would you like to all go and live together? And they said, and the house has a swimming pool, which I think, you know, for eight, nine,

12 year olds was like, yeah, okay. So yeah, we obviously were, you know, fully, fully wanting that. And, and yeah, it just kind of happened quite well from what I remember, it was quite a quick transition. And yeah, we moved in a few months later, I believe. And stayed for? Stayed for, well I left when I was 20. So even after being a care leaver, you know, at 18, my mum and dad, you know, they are my mum and dad now, kept me there, kept me on and supported me until I eventually moved out with my partner at the time. And yeah, we're just one big sort of integrated family. We get together every Christmas, you know, birthdays, wedding.

It's wonderful. What did it mean to go into? I suppose a forever home, really, because you were there from the age of nine to 20 and continued to be a family, as you mentioned, compared to perhaps what you had had to go through as a young girl. I mean, I hadn't really thought until all this came up, it kind of made me really think about how lucky I was, how lucky we all were, and how utterly terrifying it would have been if I'd been separated from my siblings. You know, eight years old, my younger sister was two at the time.

It's just that it gave us that real stability being with, you know, at least one person I knew at the beginning, my sister. And when we all came together, it was just more of the same, more stability and trying to keep everything as normal as possible, you know, in such an unusual situation. Indeed. And do you remember having to, I don't know, balance in any way, the winters were the people who took you in, your mum and dad, as you call them now, but with your biological parents who were still alive at that point? Yes, yeah. I think there was some, you know, from my perspective, at least, I think I had some sort of

feelings of guilt almost to my biological mum. We didn't see our biological dad very much at that point. But certainly, with our mum, we kind of, well, I felt a little bit of guilt about, you know, feeling so settled, you know, and I didn't want her to feel like I didn't love her or care about her or want to be with her, because, you know, of course she still do as a young child, but I was also incredibly sort of welcomed into the winter's family. We all were and so yeah, it was just, I did feel instantly kind of relaxed and safe, I think is a is a key word there. Safe, gosh, it's such a powerful little word right? Yeah yeah definitely. I'm gonna bring Sarah Thomas in here who's the CEO

of the Fostering Network, a charity that supports foster parents and children. You're hearing Emma's story there, I wonder what's coming to your mind? Oh I think first of all just to say thank you to Emma really because for most of us we take our childhood for granted but when you are able to share that story like that it's a really powerful thing to share with society and it really helps to raise awareness of fostering and the fact that we need a lot more foster carers so thank you Emma. And that is a message you want to get across? Yeah the experience that Emma had is one that we would want

for each and every child in society. And we have over 100,000 children across the UK looked after at the moment. So a significant number, and yet a dwindling number of foster carers. So we need more people to come forward to become foster carers, particularly for sibling groups. Why dwindling first?

There's lots of reasons for it. Some of the things are to do with the pressures on the system, the fact that social services is under a great deal of pressure and that obviously filters out to everybody who is involved in that sector. There's also lots of areas of improvement needed in the fostering sector around the allowances that foster carers are paid and other factors but the primary thing is that without enough foster carers we won't be able to provide stable loving homes to children who are in the situation that Emma would have been in.

Emma talks about her siblings well maybe first Emma I'll talk to you I mean what difference do you think it made having the siblings together, the four of you? I think honestly if we had been placed separately, I don't think there would have been that feeling of a family which is so incredibly important. And I think consistency is a key thing for children growing up. And just to have the winters really make sure that our home life was just like a normal family. So yeah, I think if we were separated, I don't think, I mean, I wouldn't like to say we wouldn't have as close bonds as we do now,

but it's a possibility that we could have just drifted apart and life get in the way, particularly for children coming from a difficult background. But Sarah, this issue of fostering children together. Yes, so we know that from a Children's Commissioner report a couple of years ago that we've got about 20,000 children who are siblings that are separated and that's one in three of those siblings not living with their brothers and sisters. There's lots of reasons for this. It's primarily down to the plan that is made for those children and whether there are foster carers with enough room in their in their homes. You know, you need practical space to be able to care for sibling groups. The challenge that we've got is more and

more often these children are living further apart. They might be living in different local authorities. They might be living sometimes hours away from each other and that causes lots of challenges for the foster carers who need to try and ensure that they have a relationship but nothing can ever be the same as living together and the connections that you will grow up with that go into adulthood particularly for children who have been removed from their families so they may not be able to have contact or they may have little contact with their birth parents or other members of their family. That sibling relationship is a hugely protective factor that they can take into adulthood.

When you grow up with your siblings and you have those relationships, you've got attachments and connections that will serve you well right through adulthood and that's so important for our care experience population. I suppose at the moment, let me just read a little of the statement of the Minister for Children and Families Janet Dabey says, we want all our children to have the best possible life chances having spent 10 years as a frontline social worker I recognize how important it is for children to maintain support networks such as siblings. Local authorities in England already have a legal duty to ensure that siblings in care can live

together and where that is not possible they should promote contact with siblings as long as it's in the best interest of all the children involved. But is that happening? I think every social worker would want to say I've done my best to keep siblings together. One of the challenges we have in the sector is that it isn't functioning at its best at the moment. Our recent survey, we do the largest independent survey of foster carers, it's called State of the Nations, and we know from that that 94% of the fostering services told us that they do not have enough foster carers, particularly for sibling groups.

The children's minister is also calling in an article I was reading that empty nesters could step in to help cope with the shortage. Yeah definitely there's lots of evidence that people whose own children grow up and move on as Beth the author tells her story they have space and they come forward to foster but it isn't just about that and but even then Beth had to do an attic conversion if I understand correctly and attic conversions are expensive you know there's a lot of factors that we need to think about it's not just about the recruitment piece it's about how well

we're retaining foster carers and how well we support them both financially and in other aspects to ensure that they can care for large sibling groups and they can keep children together so that children have the best opportunity to have those protective relationships for life. The government is investing 1515 million, it says, over the next year, into local authorities to boost foster care or recruitment. So let's see what comes of that. I want to thank Esra Thomas, CEO of the Fostering Network, and also, of course, Emma Shaw, who told us her story. Thank you so much for getting in touch and for coming on Woman's Hour as well. Hi, I'm Namulanta Kombo, here to tell you that my podcast Dear Daughter is back. And this time, I'm joined by an all-star lineup of guests, each with some sage life advice

and a letter for their daughter. Every mother has a letter in her head for their daughter. So it's really nice that that's being like expressed out loud. That's Dear Daughter Stars from the BBC World Service. Listen now by searching for Dear Daughter wherever you get your BBC podcasts. Dear Daughter. Let me turn to a charity that wants driving instructors to be held to the same level of scrutiny as other professions that work with young people. Fear Free supports those affected by domestic abuse, sexual violence and stalking.

It's calling for driving instructors to become a position of trust, so similar to a teacher. A previous BBC Freedom of Information request revealed there have been more than 500 complaints of inappropriate or sexual behaviour by instructors to the Drivers and Vehicle Standards Agency, the DVSA, between 2020 and 2023. I have Debbie Beadle, CEO of Fearfree, who are launching their campaign Emergency Stop today. But first I'm going to speak to BBC reporter Jasmine Lowe who has been investigating this story. Welcome Jasmine. Some of these cases of harassment came to your attention, how? Well thank you for having me. It started when a girl contacted me to tell me about a situation where she felt that in her words her driving instructor had crossed

the line with her. So I decided to do a bit of digging and I put a wider call out on my personal social media. And I asked women about any experiences that they'd had with driving instructors, but especially inappropriate ones. But then before I knew it, I was inundated. So some girls' stories from East Yorkshire and the wider Yorkshire area came to my attention. And they were telling me about when they were a bit younger. So all the girls that I spoke to were 17 at the

times of the incident and in their words when they were in an enclosed environment with an older male instructor. So for example one girl told me about a time when her driving instructor put his hand across her breast and another girl told me about when she was driving home with tears in her eyes because her instructor said he wanted a sneak peek of her in her bikini and another girl recounted a time when it was her first driving lesson and her instructor got out of the car and urinated in front of her. Let me play one of the girls that you interviewed.

This woman we are calling Alice, not her real name. He would make the car really hot and encourage me to take layers off. And he wouldn't let me open the window. So I would say, oh, it's getting warm in here. And he'd be like, no, you can't open the window. Like, just, you can come in your pajamas and stuff like that.

He also used to make me wear like, you know like a COVID mask, put it over my eyes. So I couldn't see what he was doing. And we weren't driving, he just used to like make me do the pedal work. But obviously I don't know what he could have been doing when I had that mask over my face. And another thing I remember,

he would tell me that if I was speeding, he was going to bite my ears. Like, he was like, if you speed, I'm going to bite your earlobe. I felt very vulnerable. It was just me and him in the car. Like, I wouldn't know what to do if, you know, it did escalate further. Because what could I do? You're in that small space with just that other person, away from everyone, no one can

see. Like, it drove me to, like, It drives me to a little back road. A little back road. So a little bit of the stories there Jasmine that you were uncovering. The Freedom of Information request that I mentioned had done to the DVSA. I found the number of complaints were 500 over those three years. And I should say though to put it in context that the most recent figures from December 2023 show there are more than 39,000 approved driving instructors. But how are Jasmine driving instructors regulated at the moment? So they are regulated but this is where it gets a little bit tricky because to be a driving instructor you need to be seen

as a fit and proper person according to the DVSA. So when accrediting licensed instructors, the DVSA said it considers factors, including whether a person has been banned or barred from working with children, if they have any court proceedings against them, or if there's any substantiated complaints of inappropriate behaviour or misconduct. But unlike teachers and doctors and social workers, basically driving instructors are not deemed to be in a position of trust. So that means it isn't currently against the law for instructors to have sexual relationships with students that are over the age of consent. Now a

position of trust is a legal term which is associated with roles where adults have a duty of care over a young person such as in education or social care. So for example in 2022 the government changed the law and extended the definition to include people in like faith group leaders and sports coaches, but driving instructors weren't included. Well let me turn to Debbie who I mentioned, Debbie Beadle who has the campaign that is calling for driving instructors to be in a position of trust. Give me your top reason why that is and do you think it will happen Debbie? Welcome. Yes thank you, good morning. So exactly as Jasmine says, we would like drive instructors to be included as a

listen of trust because for exactly that, like you heard in the previous example, that they are with children alone in their car. They have access to their phone numbers, to where they live and it's a real opportunity for those that want to be predators on young people to take advantage of that. Do you worry that it might deter people from becoming a driving instructor? We do know there's already a severe shortage of them, there'd be a higher level of responsibility, there'd be more training. At the moment a driving instructor might say that the initial cost to train themselves is already expensive, it can be an inconsistent income for example, and they already need to have strong communication

skills. Yeah, well ultimately, you know, learning to drive, quite a lot of our population are going to want to learn to drive and it should be a really positive experience for young people to go through into adulthood. And the majority of people that want to be driving instructors are going to be good people that are not going to abuse that position. But unfortunately, like I said, it leaves it really open for those that want to potentially take advantage of young people as a profession. Now, what we're also asking for is that there's mandatory safeguarding training, which I don't think is too much to ask for. As Jasmine said, many professions, teachers,

social workers, police all have safeguarding training as a mandatory part of their role. So we think that should also be a mandatory piece of driving instructors training. As part of the emergency stop one of the petitions that's on your website at the moment. I also saw you're looking for the creation of an independent complaints body for the driving instructor industry. So if people have a complaint at the moment what do they do? So the DVSA, you can complain to the government website and go to DVSA. However it can be quite lengthy if you look at some of the

explanations on some of the driving instructors websites. You know they're firstly saying complain first of all to driving instructor then complain to us and then you can go for the DVSA and actually lots of it even says it can be a lengthy process which you may not hear back from. Now what we're asking for is an independent complaints procedure that can be accessible, it's people that know what they're talking about and understand it can also hold organizations to account. So we're asking for that to be in place, it makes it a lot easier for people to come forward to complain when they have a concern. I just want to read from a spokesperson from the DVSA. It says the safety of learner drivers is our priority

and we treat complaints extremely seriously and in confidence. Driving instructors must be suitably qualified, undergo pre-registration checks and follow a strict code of practice. Once registered, they must undergo standard regular standard checks. All complaints against approved driving instructors are fully investigated, involving the police if necessary. Pupils are encouraged to report all incidents of inappropriate driving instructor conduct to the DVSA. Before I let you go Debbie, with this petition that you have, I mean where does

it go from here? You're looking for a certain amount of signatures, how does it go? Yeah, so basically you can find all information out on our website and yeah we're looking to take the petition and get many MPs involved. And then we're presenting it to hopefully then result in a change in this law and get driving instructors added to the sexual offences act. So let's see what happens. That's Debbie Beale, CEO of Fear Free, launching their campaign emergency stop today, and also the BBC reporter who has been investigating this story, Jasmine Lowe. Thank you so much also for joining us. Now pop star Katy

Perry, as I mentioned a little earlier, she is one of the women who will blast off into space as part of an upcoming all-women flight on a commercial space mission, Blue Origin's New Shepard rocket. The singer will be joined by the owner Jeff Bezos' fiancee, that's Laurence Sanchez, also CBS presenter Gail King, former NASA rocket scientist, get the words out, Aisha Boe and civil rights activist Amanda Ngoyen. One more, film producer Kerry Ann Flynn. Now Blue Origin has said that this is the first all-women space flight to take place since the Soviet Union's Valentina Tereshkova's solo mission in 1963.

There's no specific date for this launch but it's expected it could take place this spring. So I got to speak to Sue Nelson and she's a space journalist. She's also author of the book Wally Funk Race to Space. You might remember Wally Funk. She's the American aviator and astronaut. She became the oldest person to go into space in 2021 when she was 82. And I started off by asking Sue what she made of the announcement of an all-female flight to space. Well, my first thoughts are always great. It's women. I'm always really happy to see any woman go into space. And

then my second thought is why is it such a big deal? It really shouldn't be such a big deal. If it was a crew filled with men, nobody would think twice. So I still feel as though we've got a long way to go if just including all women produces such massive headlines. But if it makes one girl become interested in maybe thinking about a career in space then... Right. It's interesting because they have a range of people I suppose the ones that are grabbing the headlines this morning is Katy Perry the singer maybe in the United States Gail King who's a CBS morning presenter and the best friend of Oprah Winfrey they're going, you'll know this better than me, is it the Carmen line to the edge

of space? That's right, this is this sort of, almost arbitrary, but it's been the decided Carmen line, I think it's around 100 kilometers above the earth where space officially begins and it will still be an incredible trip because you will get to see that curvature of the Earth. You will experience zero gravity, which I've experienced myself, but in a sort of zero G flight with the European Space Agency, so not in space. And that feeling itself is wonderful. So it will be a great experience and I'm sure that most of them have paid quite a lot of money for it. Wally Funk didn't actually pay for her flight. That was out of Jeff Bezos' pocket, for which I and lots of other people who know Wally were incredibly grateful for. So he has got a track record of actually being quite supportive for women in that way, and obviously inspired a lot of people when they saw this 82 year old going up into space.

And hopefully it will do the same now. But actually I think even more impressive than Katy Perry is the former NASA aeronautical engineer Aisha Bowe. She is incredible, really impressive woman, engineer, black and I read on her website it said if she had followed her sort of the equivalent of counsellor's advice when she was at school, I think she was told to become a cosmetologist, which has nothing to do with cosmology but I think that means basically working with makeup. So you know she went on a different path. A couple of things there that I want to pick up on. What was that feeling like? So you said you went on a flight that gave you that feeling of... That experience of zero gravity. It's actually microgravity rather than zero gravity but it might as well be. It's amazing. It's often laughingly called a vomit comet because a lot of people can throw up

but basically the European Space Agency and Ariane Raspas, they have a plane, a jet that will do about 34 parabolas which basically means it will go up really really steeply and then when it gets to the top it will suddenly come down again and it's that bit at the top of the curve of the parabola where you get about 20 seconds of floating and lifting up. And to be honest, I felt like, I thought, I love this. It felt natural and normal, which sort of made me think afterwards that humanity is meant to leave the earth. I meant're meant to have a weightlessness, to let the weight of the world leave our shoulders, so to speak. But I'm interested in that, Sue, because these women are going to go through that. I don't know, do they need to go through certain training? Will Gail King and Katy

Perry be taking a step away from their roles to do anything, particularly to make them physically and psychologically able to do this 11 minute trip? Not really. I think the main criteria for this will be do they have any pre-existing health conditions that would stop, because you will have at least 3 Gs in terms of the forces as you are lifted up into space. And to be able to cope with that, they'd want to check that you don't have any heart conditions or anything that's likely to cause problems. It's too short a trip to cause any psychological

sort of issues. It's not like sort of several months going to the International Space Station where you really do not want somebody who's going to get on your nerves, you know, in that little big tin can in space. So I think it's more about can they afford it? Are they going to spread the word? That does seem to be a big criteria is that I'm sure it's for marketing as well as altruism,

obviously. Will the people who go up sort of enthuse about their experience to others? And if you look at all the people on this flight, they will appeal to different age groups, different demographics. And so that's very smart on his part. Plus, it will be an amazing experience. So if they're physically fit, can afford it, obviously they tend not to disclose who's paid on the whole or who hasn't. Um, they're, they'll be fine. When they go to the edge of space, this Carmen line that I'm now obsessed with this morning, are they astronauts then when they come back? Well, there's, there is some discussion about this in that, um, technically you could say, yes, if you define an astronaut as somebody who's gone into space,

then yes, you're an astronaut. You wouldn't be what most people would call a career astronaut. When I was reading, you know, they say this is the first all-female mission that is going since the Soviet Union's Valentina Tereshkova's solo mission, I should say, in 1963. There was a lot about the secret mission, the Mercury 13, it was a NASA program that was in the early 60s for women to become astronauts. Where are we when it comes to women in space? Well we're actually in a very good place and the Mercury 13 wasn't actually a NASA program that was privately funded but by the people who had worked with NASA and had NASA program that was privately funded by the people who had worked with NASA and had worked training at the Mercury 7. But we're in a great place. I mean, we've got the Artemis program at the moment with NASA, where they've already announced their astronauts in terms

of who is going back to the moon. And there are women on there. And it's already been pledged that within the next few Artemis missions we will see a woman's step foot on the moon. It's been 50 years of having women going in space with NASA and obviously with Teresh Kovar that you mentioned just then, that was even earlier from the 60s. So it's no big deal now. In fact, if anything, I would be surprised not to see a woman going into space, whether it's through the European Space Agency or China or India. You know, it's considered the norm now. Sue Nelson, space journalist and author of Wally Funk, The Race to Space. Thanks so much to her. A couple of your comments coming in

still on film. Tina says my formative film was Red Sonja, a sword and sorcery film with a strong female lead with Bridget Nielsen and the brilliant female baddie Sandal Bergman, a feminist warrior that I watch over and over again. I will be with you again tomorrow for weekend Woman's Hour. We'll be hearing from the Olivier Award-winning actors Celia Imrie and Tamsin Greg on performing together in Backstroke in London's West End. And we'll hear from the Nigerian American science fiction and fantasy writer Nady Okorafor on her new book, Death of the Author.

I do hope you will join me tomorrow at four. That's all for today's Woman's Hour. Join us again next time. I was definitely too young when I was leader of the opposition. Not to do many of the other jobs I did in government. Admissions and insights from the people who shape how we think. I would say my family gave myself and my two siblings a critical eye. And because it's not just politicians who mould our lives, we also hear from economists,

comedians and bestselling authors. It's the fastest way to change things. You do need politics, but if you want to change something overnight, culture is the quickest way to do it. Conversations, not newsy interrogations. That's Political Thinking with me, Nick Robinson from BBC Radio 4. Listen now on BBC Sounds. Hi, I'm Namulanta Kombo, here to tell you that my podcast Dear Daughter is back. And this time, I'm joined by an all-star lineup of guests, each with some sage life advice and a letter for their daughter. Every mother has a letter in her head for their daughter.

So it's really nice that that's being expressed out loud. That's Dear Daughter Stars from the BBC World Service. Listen now by searching for Dear Daughter wherever you get your BBC podcasts. Dear Daughter. ZOOM