Woman's Hour - Singer Arlo Parks, Suzanne Heywood on the legacy of her husband Jeremy Heywood and Journalist Nadine White

Episode Date: February 3, 2021

Emma Barnett talks to the singer/songwriter Arlo Parks who was named the BBC Introducing Artist of the Year in October and she'll share a special version of the track Green Eyes with listeners and Suzanne Heywood the widow of the late top civil servant Jeremy Heywood talks about her husband's legacy and we hear from the journalist Nadine White. Presenter: Emma Barnett Producer: Lisa Jenkinson Photo Credit for Arlo Parks: Alex Kurunis

This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK. I'm Natalia Melman-Petrozzella, and from the BBC, this is Extreme Peak Danger. The most beautiful mountain in the world. If you die on the mountain, you stay on the mountain. This is the story of what happened when 11 climbers died on one of the world's deadliest mountains, K2, and of the risks we'll take to feel truly alive. If I tell all the details, you won't believe it anymore. Extreme, peak danger. Listen wherever you get your podcasts.

BBC Sounds. Music, radio, podcasts. Hello, it's Emma Barnett here. Welcome to the Woman's Hour podcast. Good morning. As the country mourns the loss of national inspiration Captain Sir Tom Moore, who has died with Covid-19 aged 100, we wanted to pay our tribute too and send a message of support and condolence to his whole family. But in particular, one of his daughters, Hannah Ingram-Moore, who also became a firm fixture on our TV screen, sitting alongside her father for many interviews over the last year.

Her father lived with her and her family, and it was her idea that Captain Sir Tom should walk those laps of his garden to raise that amazing amount of money for his 100th birthday last year. Our thoughts and best wishes are with the whole family. Now on today's programme, can you help us? There is a hunt to track down an 11-year-old who wrote a letter in 1969 predicting the future, the future of communicating via screens. This note was found down the back of the sofa, it didn't get everything right,

and the people who found it want to figure out the mystery. So we'll talk to them a bit later in the programme. But in the meantime, all the big questions here for you on Woman's Hour. What have you found down the back of your sofa? We're spending a lot of time at home at the moment. Do tell us. We're all ears. 84844. Text will be charged at your standard message rate or on social media.

We're at BBC Woman's Hour or you can email us through our website. Do tell us, we do want to know and keep them coming in. Already some messages to the sound of this one that's just in. Had a look, one pound coin and some squished Pringles. Lovely. Probably still all right to eat though. Now, what is it like to write the memoirs of your husband? Especially a book that ruffled the feathers of two former prime ministers. Suzanne Hayward, wife of the late former UK's top civil servant, Jeremy Hayward, joins us on the programme today to reveal all. And music from Arlo Parks, one of the most hotly tipped new British musicians. She's recorded something very special for all of us. If you don't know her music, stay. It'll be an education. And if you're a fan, you're also in for a real treat.

Stay with us for that and keep getting in touch with us on 84844. And I'll come back to some of those messages shortly. Now, Labour has called for an investigation into whether the Equalities Minister, Kemi Badenoch, breached the ministerial code by publishing a journalist's emails on Twitter. We're going to talk to that journalist, Nadine White, in just a moment. To fill you in, though, a bit more on this, in those emails, Nadine, who works for the Huff Post, asked why the minister hadn't participated in a pro-vaccine video of black MPs encouraging vaccine take-up across the black community. Ms Badenoch, when publishing those emails on Twitter, described the query as creepy and bizarre and accused the news site of looking to sow distrust.

The minister's tweet, sharing Nadine's emails, private emails to her, led to Nadine facing a lot of abuse online. Boris Johnson's press secretary has attempted to distance the prime minister from Kemi Badenoch's actions, praising Nadine White's work, telling reporters Kemi Badenoch felt

the correspondence was something she should put in the public domain. But that's a telling reporters Kemi Badenoch felt the correspondence was something she should put in the public domain. But that's a matter for Kemi Badenoch. It's her decision, adding, that would not be how we in Number 10 would deal with these things. We invited Kemi Badenoch onto the programme as Equalities Minister. Of course, there's a lot we'd like to talk to her about, but predominantly this.

The government said it wasn't possible. But the journalist Nadine White is here now. Nadine, good morning. Good morning, Emma. Thanks for having me. You were writing a story about vaccine take up and in particular, this social media video clip that MPs across all parties had come together to be on. Absolutely, yes. And it's a video that I praised as a good initiative as soon as I saw it published late last week. She said she had supported the video, but hadn't taken part because she was participating in a vaccine trial and wanted to avoid mixing messages. You were just in a situation, I suppose, which, you know, I've been in many times, many journalists have, where you were trying to find out why not. Is that right?

Exactly. Yeah. So I put claims which were passed on to me and information that was given to me by senior political sources that she had refused to be in the video. So I sent emails asking her to comment on that. And as the emails are now public, because she published them, which we should just say for people who perhaps even aren't on Twitter or maybe in the media world, that's not the norm, is it? Absolutely not. No, just a private response would have been sufficient, but it's not normal for that to be published in the public domain.

And as the emails are public and people can see them, it's a very straight request. You ask her why she's not in the video. Exactly. And I gave details of the deadline that I was working to as a standard procedure. You cover a lot of things in the political realm for HuffPost. You also focus a lot on race. And this, of course, is a big story. And it has one which has personal pertinence to you. We'll come to that in just a moment. But did you hear back from Kemi Badenoch direct or did you just see this on Twitter?

I just saw it on Twitter and I was really shocked because I was keeping one eye on my inbox for a response from her press office. So I was really taken aback to see an eight part thread published on the minister's account, attacking my character and professional integrity as a journalist, as well as that of HuffPost UK, which is a reputable news platform. Very shocking, and it sets a worrying precedent. A free press is crucial for any democracy to function properly, and I was simply asked the question of the minister. And when you say it sets a worrying precedent, what do you mean by that?

Do you fear that other people will not send emails to ministers? What do you think it could mean? Yeah, I think it could mean that it suggests that there's something wrong with a journalist reaching out to a minister, an elected, you know, public figure to ask a question. And there's a lot wrong with that. What was the response on social media to you once she had published this? So unfortunately, you know, in the first instance, it resulted in the pylon. I received a number of abusive tweets. I reported a few accounts. I received,

you know, abusive posts on my Instagram account. Abuse was sent via email, which lauded the minister as being, you know, more intelligent than I am and goading me as, you know, someone who's just been schooled by a politician I also received a number of nuisance calls so as a result of the abuse that I received on Twitter I had to put my account on private for a while just in order to to stem that and yeah step back from from it all a bit so it's been a difficult time but equally you know in addition to the abuse there's been an outpouring of support as well, which has been lovely from peers who work across journalism, readers and people who very much realise that the minister was wrong for the way in which she approached the situation. Has the minister been in touch with you since this has happened? No, she has not. Have you tried to be back in touch with her?

No. There's a message here from Mary who's tweeted in to say, how could it be an attack, from your perspective, when the journalist was just asking a question, it was a question between the minister and the journalist, it was the minister who made it public and did it in such a way that she now faces or could face disciplinary action, it serves her right. This is obviously Labour having made a move to see if she has broken the ministerial code. You're used to reporting the news, not being the news. What do you make of that move by Labour? Of course, some will always say the opposition will make politics of it. Do you think it is a breach of the ministerial code? I think it is. You know, as I said earlier,

it was just a simple case of my asking her a question. So I do think there is a breach of ministerial code and it's not something that should be repeated. As far as what I'd like to see come out of this situation, I would like for the minister to remove the tweets, to delete the tweets. It's been a number of days and that still hasn't happened and also apologise publicly for her behaviour and we can all move on. She is your minister, our minister for equalities. In terms of her need to apologise to you, if you don't get that, how will that make you feel? Very disappointed. You know, at the end of the day, we're in the middle of a pandemic. There's a lot going on.

She has a job to do and she's been doing fantastic work in raising awareness about the importance of getting vaccinated. I have a job to do, which, by the way, entails asking questions and holding power to account. We all have our lives to get on with. I'd be disappointed if she doesn't do the right thing. Those tweets are still up. We also asked for a statement specifically on this, and we got one from the government saying the minister has been working to encourage vaccine take up, as you were just saying, confidence amongst those disproportionately affected by the pandemic. She believes that to instill confidence in the vaccine, it is vital to remain unified and not undermine the message

of promoting take-up amongst minority communities. We want every eligible person to benefit from the offer of a free vaccine, no matter their ethnicity or religious beliefs. To ensure this happens, the government is pursuing a unified approach to public health messaging, as was demonstrated by the cross-party video released earlier this week. No mention, of course, in that statement about her decision to publish those messages. The prime minister's spokesperson has said it wouldn't be how Number 10 do it,

but they're not in the business of telling their minister, in this case, to take them down. What do you make of that as a response from the prime minister's spokesman? It's deeply unsatisfactory, you know, and I hope that their stance changes. Some have described this as a Trumpian move, the idea of calling into question the media, of calling into question asking questions. I think that there was definitely an argument for that. A lot of people have said that to me and I've seen many tweets echoing that sentiment. Trump was known for his attack on the media and singling out journalists as well,

and it's difficult to argue how the minister's behaviour is different from that. I mentioned you had a personal connection to this particular angle of the story, and I hope you don't mind. I did ask you before we came on if it was OK to mention, and you said it mind, I did ask you before we came on if it was okay to mention and you said it is, but I still feel it's incredibly raw for you. But

as a black woman looking at this whole area of vaccine take up and the political messaging around it, you and your family actually lost a family member, didn't you, very recently to COVID? Yeah, that's correct. Just two weeks ago, my older sister died from COVID, aged just 41. She recently got married and was looking forward to a long and happy future with her husband. You know, we have a close-knit family, so it's a really difficult time. And you're right about the personal connection. I mean, this matters to me, you know, saving as many lives as possible, seeing as many lives as possible saved from COVID matters to me as it does to the minister. And the minister commented on HuffPost's coverage of race and COVID, by the way, I'll just mention,

which I have been leading and have been very proud to do so. So yeah, I've been personally affected by COVID through the death of my sister. I've lost family members before that, the beginning of last year, as well as friends to the illness as well. My mum is still recovering from the virus, as well as both of my brothers, uncles, several cousins. So there is a deep personal connection to this. And, you know, it was never my intention to, you know, offend the minister to see the fallout from simply asking a very important question. I am very sorry for your loss. And thank you for sort of telling us about that in the midst of this.

You're a young journalist, relatively at the beginning of your career, if I could put it like that, 28. How has this made you feel? Because, of course, it's also against a backdrop against something I know you do feel passionate about with black women underrepresented in both journalism and politics. Well, exactly. This has left me feeling shocked, taken aback, disappointed, but fundamentally undeterred because I am, you know, driven to being the best journalist I can, amplifying marginalised perspectives and, again, holding power to account. It's very important. So onwards, I say.

I mean, I still say that I hope the minister does the right thing. I apologise. I was going to say, if Kemi Badenoch is listening to Women's Hour right now, what's your direct message to her? Please do the right thing and apologise, delete the tweets, and we can all move on. Nadine White, thank you very much for your time. We did invite the minister on, but it was not possible

from the government and those statements there about the minister's work in this area. Now, we're talking about ministers, we're talking about what's going on behind the scenes with the media, but let's talk about it from a different perspective, what goes on with the civil service, because the late Jeremy Hayward was the UK's top civil servant at the centre of power for more than 25 years. He served under four prime ministers from Tony Blair through to Theresa May, and was a key figure behind the scenes in the Black Wednesday financial crisis of 1992,

the Iraq war, the financial crash of 2008, the creation of the coalition government in 2010 and, of course, the Brexit negotiations. As cabinet secretary and head of the civil service, he once said his role was to help the prime minister think. Mandarins are not supposed to write memoirs, risking the confidentiality shared between ministers and advisers. But Jeremy's

widow, Suzanne Haywood, now Lady Haywood, has broken with tradition and written his biography. And she joins us now for her first broadcast interview. Good morning. Good morning. Thank you very much for inviting me on today. It's quite the tome. And what's striking about it is that on the back, you know, when you have the quotes endorsing it, you've got Tony Blair, Gordon Brown, David Cameron, Nick Clegg and Theresa May. So that's quite a collection. It is indeed. And those quotes are all quotes that were taken from Jeremy's memorial service, where all of the prime ministers that he worked for and Nick Clegg stood up

and gave really very moving tributes to the work that he did with them, which I think shows, in a way, the power of the civil service and the fact that the civil service works across different administrations of different political persuasions. And I was very grateful. I know Jeremy would have been very honoured by what they said at his memorial service. I should also say, you know, I'm sorry for your loss. You know, it often very, very quickly. I had a friend very sadly die from Covid only yesterday. And it's very, very. So this is this is a time when many, many people are losing many people. And I'm very grateful, actually, that I had the chance to be able to interview Jeremy for this book,

which for me actually made the loss a little bit easier. I mean, you never get over it, but I do think that that has helped me through this process. He died of cancer. That's right. That's right. He died of lung cancer. We'll come back to that if I can in just a moment about the idea of you as the widow in this instance, writing your husband's memoirs or certainly putting them together, because that's quite unusual in and of itself. The civil service where he, it's actually where you and him met, but where he was the top guy, the top person, a lot of people still won't know what it is. And I read a description the other day, which I thought was lovely.

When in one of your interviews about this, you talked about, it's the downstairs story, if you like, of the Downton Abbey of politics. You've got the upstairs and downstairs of politics. Could you explain a bit more? Yes. I mean, you started off by saying it's quite unusual to write this sort of book. But of course, there are many, many books that are now written about people who work in government. Obviously, you know, many, many books about biographies and autobiographies of ministers and prime ministers, but also diplomats, civil servants. There was a kind of biography of one of Jeremy's predecessors, a previous cabinet secretary. So, and I believe that this is really important. It is about trying to explain

to people how government works, both the good things that happen and also kind of when government doesn't work very effectively. And I think the more that we can expose a little bit how that works, the better. And it is a bit like kind of upstairs and downstairs at Downton Abbey. I tell the story of Jeremy and Jeremy works with multiple different prime ministers over time. And often the kind of connections when one administration leaves out the door of Downing Street and the other one turns up less than an hour later. It's fascinating how that transition happens

and how actually sometimes policies are continued from one administration to the next administration. And of course, that story is not a story that's ever told in a prime ministerial biography. You know, you just don't hear that kind of transitional piece. So it is a little bit like downstairs and down the alley. Well, yes. I mean, that's the civil service keeping the show on the road. And some say, you know, who know a lot about it is it is the envy of the world.

It's one of our great assets. Others would say it's ripe for reform. I'm sure you've got views on that. But you say it's not unusual. There are books written like this. I suppose what is unusual is it's been written very close to the time that he was in this position. And he's not here himself. And some have questioned, is it right that you've published this as quickly as you have? Yes. So I think there's two things here. I mean, one, in an ideal world, if Jeremy hadn't have died, as you said, he died very quickly and sadly, very young in the kind of prime of his career. I think in the kind of normal course of events, he would have, you know, he and I would have done this in another decade's time. But sadly, we just didn't have that choice. I mean, many of his predecessors, the kind of standard approach is that they leave office, they do interviews, they write articles, they go on programs, they comment on what's happening in the world.

Sadly, Jeremy will never have the opportunity to do that. And I had to take a decision if I was going to write his biography, which I'd always wanted to do, I had to do it then, because otherwise I was going to lose the opportunity to talk to him. And there were two reasons why I wanted to do it. One is I think it is just a very interesting story. But also it was his opportunity to pass back to the civil service his institutional memory of all those years of working. And then for me as a widow, I was asked by the cabinet office

to delay publication until after Cameron's book, which I did. And I was very, very happy to do that. But I then need to get on with my life. Is that because David Cameron didn't want you to publish this book? No, no. I think it was more just out of, you know, at the point at which I was writing this book,

it was very well known that David was writing his, and I think it was more just to allow him to tell his story first, which is absolutely fine. I have no problem with that whatsoever. I'm sure him and Theresa May don't love some of the chapters of this book because it does reveal what you could just what's been said in the heat of the moment. Not all of it, but some of it's been revealed. Striking and people will pick up is, for instance, Jeremy privately warned David Cameron that he would open up a Pandora's box of problems he couldn't solve by offering a referendum on Britain's membership of the EU. We're now out of the EU. What do you make of how it's gone? And do you think Jeremy was right? Well, it's very important. And I think when you read the book, Jeremy never advised whether or not there should be a vote on Brexit. And he would consider that to, you know, that that is not part of his role.

That was never part of his role. And indeed, if you read the book, he doesn't advise whether or not that's that that should be done. What he did advise, and I think people would think that this is something that a senior civil servant should do, is he advised on what the consequences of calling the vote would be and how the Prime Minister might want to handle some of those consequences. And also Jeremy then worked very, very hard, which I think is also clear in the book, to make sure that once the vote had happened, that it was implemented in the best possible way. So I think people, when they read it, they will see that. And to my question about havoc and now, you know, Michael Gove's got to go and try and sort out what's going on in Northern Ireland and the border there. Jeremy, so in the memo that Jeremy wrote, I don't believe he said havoc.

What he said was that there might be an immediate impact on things like inward investment. And he advised the prime minister a little bit about the positioning of the vote. But I don't think Jeremy ever believed that the Brexit vote or the consequences of it would be havoc. His main focus after the vote was to try and find a way of implementing it, which would take the most advantage of it. Well, that's what he did. Problems, solve problems, try and find answers. As a family, I mean, we should very much say at this point, you are a successful woman in your own right, having started in the civil service and then went into private industry.

And you've written this book to put, as you say, his story down because he isn't here to do so. And as you also share with us, you know, in some ways, that's been something you feel lucky to have't here to do so and as you also share with us you know in some ways that's been something you feel lucky to have been able to do and I'm sure in some ways perhaps it was therapeutic as well being in that position with him and going through his life but I just wonder what was it like living alongside as part of the family that you could be on holiday and the prime minister is his minister can ring at any time and say help i know i and we lived in that sort of way for many years and when i wrote the book what i tried to do was to tell the personal story of what it was like to live in that sort of world

alongside the story of what was happening in his uh civil world. And what was it like from your perspective? What was it like? You know, you're having an ice cream, I don't know, Spain, France, and Gordon Brown's on the blower or Cameron's on the blower. What's it like? For me, it was actually fine. I mean, what actually made it very workable for me were two things.

One is, as you say, I've always had my own career. So we've always worked alongside each other. And so we were equally distracted at different points in time. I think it can be maybe more difficult if one of you doesn't. And Jeremy was incredibly supportive right through to the end, actually, of my career, which is fantastic. And then the second thing is Jeremy had an amazing ability that when he was present, he was really present. So in those moments when, in those times when he put the iPhones to one side and he was with the family, he was immensely present. And the children, actually our children, don't feel that he was one of these people who was half distracted all the time. Well, I loved actually what one of your children said at the memorial service.

Some heroes wear capes and ours wore a cardigan, which I thought was very, very sweet and fetching. But I mean, you must have found it a bit annoying at times. Was there one prime minister that rang a lot more than the others or seemed to be in a flap a bit more? I think all prime ministers ring cabinet secretaries or senior civil servants a reasonable amount. To be fair, they tended to ring when there was a crisis going on. And because Jeremy and I, I mean, he wouldn't reveal kind of confidential information to me, but I generally knew what the issue was that he was talking about. I was not, I actually didn't find it that annoying. I mean, there were, I remember at one point there was a particular minister who shall remain nameless,

who took to ringing Jeremy at a very early hour in the morning. And I did convince Jeremy that he had to turn his phone off and only turn it on once he got up in the morning. And that was that was kind of fine. But in general, it was just part of our life. And you got used to it. And it's something I think accept if you're uh the partner of a senior civil servant and to some extent he also had to put up with that because of my career as well yes well you're both very busy leading these full lives and also raising your children together uh did he did he have a favorite prime minister not that he would ever say i think oh come on no he was always you can't be impartial say. I think he was... Oh, come on. No, he was always... He can't be impartial at home, surely.

No, he was incredibly loyal, and all his friends will say this, incredibly loyal to every prime minister that he worked with. And he would never, ever, ever say that. I've got to ask that question. Just slightly pressed for time, but could you tell us about this new competition you've set up, the Hayward Foundation Prize?

Because anyone listening who's got a government policy idea needs to get in touch, don't they? Absolutely. So I set up in Jeremy's memory something called the Hayward Foundation, which is dedicated to two things, innovative policy, innovative public policy, which he really believed in, and diversity. And I'm very conscious that's incredibly relevant and particularly relevant now, given the kind of impact of the pandemic. What we've done is we've launched a public policy competition, anyone can enter it, if you just kind of type in haywoodfoundation.com and go to the foundation website, you'll find it there. We've got a top prize of £25,000. We're looking for really innovative questions. What are policy things that need to be solved that have been uncovered by the pandemic? Could be an opportunity, like what are we going to do to capture all this online learning

that's been done during the pandemic so that we continue to use it even when children are able to go back to school physically? Could be a problem. And we have a fantastic panel. I have everybody from Michael Gove is on the panel to judge this. to go back to school physically could be a problem. And we have a fantastic panel. I have, you know, everybody from kind of Michael Gove is on the panel to judge this. Ed Balls is on the panel to judge it. We have a, you know, I think it's going to be very, very interesting.

And the plan is to close the competition on the anniversary of the first lockdown, 26th of March. Thank you very much for talking to us, Suzanne Hayward. The book's called What Does Jeremy Think? Jeremy Hayward and the Making of Modern Britain. It's published tomorrow. Now, we do want you to get in touch with us today. And you have been doing about what you found down the back of the sofa.

We'll discuss that in more detail in just a moment. Kay on email says, yesterday, I decided to clean the sofa in my conservatory and I found an oval locket sized photograph of my sister taking it many years ago. Neither my sister or I have any idea of how the photograph found its way there. Kay Fox, well done you. Wow. Morning says Jo, I found my daughter Millie

down the back of the sofa once. She was very young and had fallen asleep behind the cushions. Her hair then was the same shade of cream slash beige as the sofa. So she blended in completely. It was a very stressful 30 minutes frantically searching the house and garden before I finally found her. As I say, more detail on why we're asking that in just a moment.

But something else we need your help with. More than 10,000 childcare providers in the UK are likely to have folded or gone out of business by the end of the lockdown. With leaders saying the sector has been crushed by financial instability and a fall in demand. A survey by the childcare online platform found nearly one in six of more than 2,000 providers said that they were going to be likely to be permanently closed because of the pandemic, while one in three said they were unsure if they'd be able to reopen. Just 50% of the childminders, daycare centres and nurseries surveyed said they were likely to remain open after the lockdown ends.

Very stark statistics. What impact will not being able to get childcare have on you and your family if your children fall into this age range? Does it mean you or your partner will have to stop working? Perhaps you already have. Are you having to rethink your plans after potentially your maternity leave finishes? Get in touch with us on this. We want to talk about it.

We need your experiences on social media. We're at BBC Women's Hour. Or email us your stories and experiences via our website. Now, behind that sofa, you may only have biscuit crumbs, loose change, I don't know, old raisins, money.

We've just heard a message about money. But hidden in one sofa sent for reupholstering was a letter more than 50 years old, remarkably foretelling some of our future. There's now a UK-wide hunt for the author. All we know is written by an 11-year-old schoolgirl. This was in 69. And she predicted the Zoom revolution to an extent,

saying we'd all be making video calls and using TV remote controls. The letter was discovered by Rosa Beckerton's husband. And Rosa would really like to track down who wrote it. Rosa, hello. Thanks for joining us. How exactly was the letter discovered and tell us about it? Well, my husband and his son are upholsterers and a sofa came into the workshop which I believe the family had bought from an auction house in Stanford and when he stripped it down

here was the child's essay. The people knew nothing about it whatsoever so we kept the piece of writing. So eventually I kept promising I'd show it to a newspaper and eventually I put it onto our local online Peterborough one. And this is the outcome of it. Yes, well, the letter was written in 1969. She was talking about 1980. And tell us about some of the things she was predicting. The TV was going to be a huge box with knobs on the chair to control it.

Chewing gum food that tasted divine with no washing up. Video calls. Electric press button door open. And the phone would just be a receiver rather than something perched on a big square box. Wow she has some good foresight this 11 year old. Yes I'm guessing she's about 61 years old now. Well we should say if you're listening and this sounds vaguely familiar do get in touch with us here at Woman's Hour. We've just got all the contact details on our website. You might not even remember something, writing something like that 50 years ago,

especially if you stuffed it down the sofa. Well, she got a mark from the teacher. It was written good, so the teacher was a bit happy with it. I wonder if the teacher is still alive. Exactly. That's a nice question as well. I imagine it's quite a lovely thing to find. Yes, it was. It was quite amazing. Has she got decent handwriting?

Yes, nice and neat. Not many spelling mistakes. One or two grammar things, that's all. Well, there you go. If we can track her down, we will let you know. Rosa, thank you so much for coming to talk to us. And Rosa Beckerton there, get in touch with us if it's you or you may think it's someone you know. Around 15 years ago, Charlie says on email, I bought a couple of Victorian chairs at a local auction. They were small armchairs on brass casters covered in horrible brown 70 stretch covers, which I got for an incredible one pound for the pair, plus the buyer's premium.

As I removed the brown covers, I found £1.78 down the backs of the chairs, effectively making them free with a small contribution to the cost of recovering them. I still have them. They look great. And the story still makes me laugh. More messages coming in around this. This is beautiful. Angela on email says, I found on the back of the sofa a printed on silk wall hanging of Queen Victoria's coronation procession. Get that. Now I've got a real treat for you in terms of what you're going to hear in your ears. The singer songwriter Arlo Parks was named the BBC Introducing Artist of the Year at the end of last year. 20 years old, she's won critical acclaim for her intimate bedroom jams

that fuse indie, jazz and pop. Some describe it as describe it as neo soul Arlo says she finds inspiration from poetry having been given a Sylvia Plath book by her teacher and while still at school she sent her songs to the BBC introducing music scheme she's performed at Glastonbury when it was last on in 2019 remember those days and her single Black Dog was a big sensation last year, providing comfort to those going through mental health issues in lockdown. Now her debut album, Collapsed in Sunbeams, has just been released to great acclaim. It's been described by The Guardian as a diaristic, near perfect debut. Couldn't wish for any better there, Arlo. Good morning. Good morning. Thanks so much for having me.

How are you feeling about the album being out there in the world, letting it go? Yeah, I mean, I think there's still some kind of residual nerves. I mean, there's a sense of excitement. There's a sense of being grateful that I can bring people art in such a difficult time as well. But yeah, I'm just basking in it for now. How would you describe it to people? We are going to hear some music in a moment and it's hard to describe music when it's out there but what would you say you're trying to do with it I guess I would say that it's quite introspective it's sensitive it's a fusion of a lot of different genres everything from soul to

indie to pop and I guess that it's I just want my music to be something that's healing something that's soothing um and I guess that's what well Well, I was going to say, we're living in a time where we need that, don't we, more than ever? Exactly. And I mean, me personally, I've been turning to music a lot as some kind of soothing agent during these times of chaos. So I'm glad that I can do that for other people. You've been kind enough to specially record a version

of the track Green Eyes just for us. Before we hear it, tell us about what it is. What are you writing about? Yeah, I mean, this is a song that surrounds the themes of self-acceptance and self-discovery. And it's about, I guess, just living in a way that's authentic to you and realising that everybody is going to try and pass judgment at some point or another but all

you can do is really live authentically um and be yourself let's have a listen oh yeah some of these folks wanna make you cry cry but you gotta trust how you feel inside And shine And shine Green Eyes by Arlo Parks, just for us. Thank you, Arlo. That was such a treat. Yeah, I'm so glad that you enjoyed it.

It's a very special song to me. How do you find listening to yourself? It's a strange experience always. I mean, I think it's like whenever you listen back to a voice memo or like a video and you hear your voice in the background, there's that sense of like a tiny bit of cringe, but I guess I'm used to it now.

Well, you're getting used to it. You've been doing amazing things. As I mentioned, when Glastonbury was still on, I mean, it's so sad it's not on again. It's a very odd thing, isn't it? You did it back in 2019. How are you finding not being able to perform in the traditional way?

Yeah, I mean, I definitely feel like I'm missing a layer of depth to the connection that I have with my fans and something so special and galvanizing about experiencing music in a collective way and just being vulnerable altogether but I guess it just makes me hopeful for when shows do return I think they're going to be more special than ever. Sylvia Plath, Joni Mitchell you've cited those two women as particular inspirations. Yeah I mean I grew up kind of always loving words and always loving storytelling. And my English teacher gave me a copy of Ariel

when I was, I think, probably like 13 or 14 years old. And I've just always gravitated towards just artists with very specific and unique voices and very specific tastes. And I think that Sylvia Plath and Jenny Mitchell both have that in common. I read that you're quite shy which doesn't always go with being you know a music star. I mean I don't think I'm shy I would say I'm definitely like introspective but I would say I'm probably more on the on the extroverted side of the coin

for sure. I think it was it was in reference to when you started sending your music in and and trying to make a name for yourself yeah definitely I definitely think there was a sense of shyness surrounding the music for sure when I was younger because you know you want to be seen as as cool and like it was such a vulnerable part of me and I was being so honest in those songs that I kind of hid a little bit the fact that I was making music but I've kind of grown to be more comfortable with it now. Do people get in touch with you about how your music has helped them in particular at the moment we mentioned that that song that was written Black Dog particularly about a friend who was struggling

with depression? Yeah so exactly as you said it was written about um my best friend and people have been reaching out to me you know saying that it's helped them through you like somebody said that it helped their mother through you know terminal illness somebody said that it had helped them kind of speak to their partner about the things that they were suffering and opening up conversations and saving marriages even. And it feels so surreal that something that I kind of dreamed up in an apartment in central London has touched so many people around the world.

It's so beautiful. What did your friend make of it? Did it help her or him? Yeah, yeah, it did help her. I mean, I think that it, interestingly, it kind of cemented our friendship even more. And she's doing so much better now. So we can kind of look back on it as almost evidence that things do get better even when they're feeling quite bad. Planning is quite hard at the moment, isn't it, with lockdown and the way that we don't really know how the world's going to come out of it.

What are you sort of looking ahead to yeah I mean I guess as you say I'm taking it day by day I am definitely looking forward to playing shows when we can um but for now I'm just writing looking to dabble in other kind of artistic avenues whether that's acting or writing a poetry collection and just yeah and, and just like absorbing as much as possible. So maybe the next time I talk to you, you'll have a poetry book out. Arlo Parks, thank you so much for talking to us. Thank you. Thanks for having me. The debut album's called Collapsed in Sunbeams.

That's all for today's Woman's Hour. Thank you so much for your time. Join us again for the next one. Hi, I'm Zand van Tulleken. And I'm Kimberley Wilson. And just before you go, we wanted to quickly tell you about our podcast, Made of Stronger Stuff, from BBC Radio 4. I'm a psychologist and Zand is a medical doctor,

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