Woman's Hour - Singer Laura Wright, Covid-19 and Oestrogen, Professor Heather Viles and Covid-19 and Fashion.

Episode Date: May 22, 2020

The soprano Laura Wright first came to prominence when she won the BBC Radio 2 Young Chorister of the Year in 2005 aged just 15. A lover of sport, she’s well known for her performances at huge sporting events from the FA Cup Final, British Grand Prix, Invictus Games and being England Rugby team’s first ever official anthem singer. She tells Jenni how during lockdown she has been using her voice by working with organisations and charities to address the challenges of isolation. To mark Mental Health Awareness week, she’s released a new single with The Choir of Royal Holloway, University of London in aid of charity.Could oestrogen provide some kind of protection against Covid-19? Dr Louise Newson is a GP and menopause specialist. She is working closely with NHS England to see whether women having periods or taking hormonal therapies like the pill and HRT are protected in some way. Covid Symptom Study: https://covid.joinzoe.com/Professor Heather Viles has been awarded the Royal Geographical Society's prestigious Founder's Medal for her excellence in establishing the field of bio-geomorphology - the scientific study of the physical landscape, and how plants and animals help with those process. She joins Jenni to discuss her career: from researching the contribution of acid rain to the deterioration of English cathedrals, to studying black slime growing on rocks at the Aldabra Atoll in the Seychelles.We know that the COVID-19 pandemic has had an enormous impact on the global economy. One area that has been hit particularly hard is the fashion industry. What will be the long term impact and how is Coronavirus forcing us to think differently about fashion? Kenya Hunt is the Fashion Director at Grazia UK. Annie Clarke is a merchandise manager.Presenter - Jenni Murray Producer - Clare WalkerGuest - Laura Wright Guest - Dr Louise Newson Guest - Heather Viles Guest - Kenya Hunt Guest - Annie Clarke

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BBC Sounds. Music, radio, podcasts. Hello, Jenny Murray welcoming you to the Woman's Hour podcast for Friday the 22nd of May. Good morning. We've been loafing about in casual gear and hadn't bought new clothes for spring or summer. What will be the impact of COVID-19 on the fashion industry? And after this crisis, will we care so much about what we wear? Professor Heather Viles has been awarded the prestigious Founders Medal by the Royal Geographical Society. Her field is biogeomorphology. And yes, I will ask her what that is. And in Mental Health Awareness Week, the award-winning soprano Laura Wright and a charity recording to highlight the difficulties of loneliness in self-isolation.

It's called Can You Hear Me? Now, there have been so many theories about why some people who contract coronavirus suffer more than others and, of course, why there appears to be evidence that men are more likely to be very ill and possibly die from it than women. The hormone oestrogen, which is present in women in much greater quantities than in men, has been suggested as a substance

that may provide a degree of protection against COVID-19. Research is being carried out in London and in Liverpool, and Dr Louise Newson, who's a GP and a specialist in menopause, is working with NHS England to see whether pre-menopausal women and those taking hormonal therapies such as the pill or HRT may be protected in some way. Louise, what prompted this idea that oestrogen might provide some kind of protection? Well, right from the start, we've seen, haven't we, that men are more

likely to have a more severe disease and also more likely to succumb and sadly die from COVID-19. And as a physician who specialises in the menopause, I'm very interested in the long-term health risks of the menopause. And so I've thought for a while, I wonder how important oestrogen is. And we know that women have a stronger immunity than men to infections, including viruses. So then digging deeper, we know that oestrogen responds to cells all over our bodies, including our immune cells. And we know that oestrogen receptors on these cells can change the way they work, can even reprogram them and change the number and the chemicals, if you like, that are released from them. So then I found an interesting paper from Wuhan showing that women who had low oestrogen levels in their bloodstream had more severe

disease, more likely to become more severely ill from COVID-19. It was only a small study, but it was just planted a seed of thought. And then I found a study looking at mice in SARS, which is a coronavirus, as you know, that came out a few years ago. And they infected these mice with the coronavirus. And the female mice did a lot better but then when they took their ovaries out or gave them drugs that blocked over oestrogen functioning in the mice they did a lot worse and they had a lot more severe disease in their cells in their lungs and we know that lungs is the real problem with COVID-19 and sometimes what happens is that the immune system starts to be really effective in us and then it becomes too effective and these chemicals can damage our normal immune system

and then they affect our normal tissues so the tissues in our lungs can be affected and so this cytokine storm occurs which doesn't seem to occur so much in women. So it's a theory and it's not the only reason, clearly. But I think, you know, it's important that we find out because, you know, as women, we're 51% of the population. But is it only the pre-menopausal who are protected or might HRT have an effect and those post-menopausal women who don't have much estrogen are at ever greater risk? Well this is what we think actually because we know that women who take HRT certainly the natural body identical HRT the estrogen that's estradiol that goes through straight through the skin into the bloodstream have a lower risk of other conditions such as heart disease, osteoporosis, diabetes, dementia.

And we know that oestrogen stimulates these cells. And we know that the immune response to other infections such as sepsis, hepatitis C, HIV is different in postmenopausal women who don't take HRT. So it is very likely to have an effect. What other factors do you think might be at play besides oestrogen in protecting women? Yeah so we know that obesity is a big risk for severity of Covid-19 and also diabetes and heart disease so all these conditions increase during the menopausal years in women who don't take HRT. So whether it's related to the oestrogen, of course it is because we know women who have low oestrogen, even women who have an early menopause, so women under the age of 40, and that's very common, one in 100 women, those women have an increased risk of all these diseases

if they aren't replaced with oestrogen. But if they have oestrogen, that risk reduces. So we know, for example, the risk of a heart attack reduces by 50% in women who take HRT. So even if it has an indirect effect, so it doesn't affect the immunity in the way that we are thinking, but reduces comorbidity that increases our risk from COVID-19, then that's significant. And we know that HRT has more benefits than risks for the majority of women, yet only about 12-14% of women take it because of the perceived risks. How is the study you're involved in being carried out? So I'm doing quite a lot of work. Obviously, I'm collaborating with NHS England, but

Tim Spector's COVID symptom study app, which has been created by a company, Zoe, is tracking over three, I think they've got over three and a half million people now. So we're looking at the data there. and we've added questions about whether people are having their periods, if they're on the contraceptive pill or HRT. And then I'm working with a group at Liverpool University, which is led by Professor Ian Buchanan, Professor Louise Kenny, and we're looking at data from multiple sources. So we can really dig very deeply into the data and have a look at what types of HRT people are taking, what types of contraceptive pills people are taking, how many of these women have gone to intensive care and how many have died. So we can hopefully really provide some good evidence for policymakers.

When might you have some results? We're hoping to have some preliminary results with Tim Spector's team next week and then with Liverpool it will take a bit longer. But it's very important because as we know, we want to get out of our homes, don't we? And I don't I think I've actually had COVID-19. But if we I don't mind having it, no one minds having it if we're not going to be hospitalised or very ill. So if it means we have a less severe disease because we're taking HRT or hormones then that would be really good especially for people nurses on the front line for example teachers people in shops we know that so many women are menopausal and exposed to COVID-19 so if we can help with something that's

very very safe and also very cheap for the NHS then that would be marvellous. But you see you say very safe I mean so many women stop taking it because they're afraid of breast cancer because you know they said the evidence on heart attacks was not accurate that we had years and years ago. Are you actually saying in this time of COVID-19 it is worth taking HRT just in case? Well I wouldn't say for COVID-19 because we need that we need the evidence and certainly as a physician I only practice evidence-based medicine but actually there is enough evidence to support the risk for reducing for heart disease, for diabetes, for dementia. We know that women who take HRT for at least 18 years have lower overall mortality from all causes

including cancer and sadly the breast cancer risk has been sensationalized in the media but also for medical practitioners we're often given information that's based on old outdated studies looking at using older types of HRT. HRT's come on a lot and we use oestrogen through the skin, we use a body identical progesterone which has no risk of breast cancer the first five years and after that the risk is minimal. And to put it into context, a woman's risk of breast cancer is far greater if she drinks a couple of glasses of wine each night or is overweight compared to taking even an older type of HRT. So we need to look at the bigger picture and the bigger health of women, which is something that's so important for women to realise

when they're considering HRT. And just briefly, Louise, what other studies are being made of COVID-19 and hormones? Well, there's an interesting study in Stony Brook University, which is part of it near New York, and they're actually looking at giving oestrogen to men and women, actually. So men and women who have symptoms that may be related to COVID, they're giving them oestrogen to see if it dampens down this very aggressive immune

response and reduces their risk of going into intensive care or dying. They haven't got any results yet, but they were very struck that none of their patients who have been in their 110-bedded ITU unit have been women taking HRT, which is something that I think is significant. Dr Louise Newsome, thank you very much indeed for being with us this morning. Thank you.

Now, looking your best has somehow slipped down the list of priorities in the past few weeks. We've flopped around at home in leisure wear and people have even been seen popping to the shops in their pyjamas. Clothes shops have been shut and even ordering online has felt a bit dodgy. Would you really want to be trying on stuff at home when you don't know where it's been? What effect has the pandemic had on the fashion industry, which is worth trillions of dollars worldwide and brings the UK more than £30 billion a year in revenue? And will our attitude to being fashionable change

after a period of being forced to think about other things than the way we look. Well, Kenya Hunt is the Fashion Director of Groutier UK and Annie Clark is a Merchandise Manager. What, Annie, has been the effect on your work of this pandemic? Good morning, Jenny. Thanks for having me. Just to pick up on that. So, I mean, with shops closed and not set to reopen until next month um obviously most fashion retailers are experiencing extremely low levels of sales and industry analysts are forecasting a 30 decline in revenues for 2020 with only single

digit recovery in 2021 um so for myself i mean you know many retailers have furloughed staff um some are filing for bankruptcy and the knock-on effect to the rest of the supply chain has been colossal, with many manufacturers also laying off staff and closing factories. And Kenya, what immediate impact would you say the virus has had on your work and the industry? Well, I think the immediate impact on my work is that basically like the nature of the reporting, what we're writing about, the tone, all of it has just completely changed. I mean, COVID-19 has hit fashion so hard that everything from, you know, the way clothes are made, sold and shown is being rethought. And that has an impact on us, the press who travel to cover it

and who follow the calendar. So, yeah, I think, you know, it's a huge, huge moment. But there's we're seeing a lot of silver linings as a result of this, because it's the COVID-19 is accelerating conversations that have been happening and percolating for years. And so it's now forcing the industry globally to reassess its practices and to put a lot of positive changes in place as a result. But what's happening, Kenya, in those countries where so many clothes are made? I'm thinking of China, Bangladesh, Cambodia, where a lot of women depend on the clothing industry for their work, even though it may be

very, very low paid and often dangerous. You know, it's interesting because so much of the conversation around COVID-19's impact on the fashion industry has largely centered around fashion designers and the big brands. But, you know, it's very important to think about the fact that the most vulnerable, lowest paid people in the fashion supply chain have been among the hardest hit. So that's millions of garment workers who've already lost their jobs as a result of this virus and they have no safety nets. So because of the impact on the global supply chain, we're seeing garment workers, artisan groups, agricultural workers and farmers facing dire financial circumstances. A lot of them pay for their materials up front with the understanding that they will then be paid for the garments that they deliver after delivery, or sometimes they won't be paid for months. And so many of them, their orders have been canceled, and this has had a trickle-down effect.

And a large percentage of these workers are women. And you're right, they just span the world, essentially. So I think also coming out of this, we've started to see the value in localization as well, and really sort of making things closer to home. So I mean, there's so many different strands to this conversation. And the supply chain is so tangled um what sort of thinking are you aware of annie on you know how clothes are made how much is thrown away there is so much waste how much of a revolution are you spotting in the way we perceive the fashion industry i mean mean, I think on the back of this, it would be a shame if after having this time to reflect,

we went straight back to business as usual. I think one of the biggest topics being discussed at the moment is sustainability. And it's one of those things that many retailers have kind of dipped their toe in just to be able to say they're doing it, but haven't really ventured into in a major way. And I think on the back of COVID, it's something that we'll really have to tackle.

I think we need to be more conscious of the waste created by the fashion industry, whether we're talking about high levels of CO2 emissions or actual clothing waste from some of the fast fashion business models. We need to be more accountable in terms of sourcing sustainable fabrics and products and also ensuring that we're paying a fair price to the people who make these garments. Just for example I'm a massive fan of the social marketplace business models like Depop or Vestia where instead of dumping your old clothes you can sell on your pre-loved merchandise lengthening its life cycle so it's things like that that individuals can do but also the businesses just need to be more considered. Kenya,

London Fashion Week is due next month what effect will it being online have rather than people actually being able to go and see the models walking up and down the catwalk? Well I think for one it will be more consumer facing. And so historically, Fashion Week has been quite removed. It's, you know, it's been this quite elusive world. But now consumers can actually engage with it directly by logging on to this website and seeing the clothing and the storytelling that designers will produce. And mind you, this one will be almost like a transitional moment because we are coming off of the back of a really big, long pause.

So it's forcing designers to think through their work in very creative and innovative ways. So I think we'll all be very curious to see how this looks in terms of what brands and designers produce. But that said, I think consumers and women, basically shoppers will find it really exciting because basically they can engage with fashion directly and witness it firsthand. Are you sure about that? Because I do wonder, you know, how much are attitudes to fashion changing? Will we be as interested in it as we might have been in the past?

So I think that's a really interesting question, because we're already seeing a little bit of a shift on social media. I mean, we've gone through various stages of grief when it comes to this pandemic. And we've all been living in our leggings and our sweatpants and our hoodies. But now we're reaching this turning point where the weather is turning. And we're starting to sort of, we basically we live in our clothes. They're an extension of who we are, how we see ourselves, how people see us. And so they're incredibly powerful in their ability to lift our mood. I mean, at Grazia, we started a WhatsApp group. The editor, Hattie Brett, and the team started a WhatsApp group filled with women who represent a cross-section of readerships. And we've been talking to them throughout the pandemic to get a sense of how they're feeling about their new normal.

And, you know, their interest, their views about fashion are really interesting because they haven't lost interest in it. I mean, they're living in their clothes. We're looking at each other on Zoom all day long. And so, I mean, clothes haven't lost their power to make us feel good or feel better. And right now we all want to feel better um but again we're just being mindful of what we spend and how much because obviously annie what do you think is going to be the effect of the mask which i'm sure i've noticed is almost becoming a fashion item um i think obviously from a medical standpoint the mask helps to protect you and so it's a numbering of for visiting public spaces but what I am also loving about it Jenny is that at the moment people are using it as a form of individual and cultural expression.

I mean I've seen African kente cloth masks, I've seen bandana prints, ones with pearls on just you know loads of different creative expressions. Yes, as you said, it is becoming a fashion statement and many of the luxury brands are also doing their own versions. I think it's just, it's a good time to kind of keep fashion at the forefront by using this device that we kind of all have to use to keep safe. What do you wear, Annie? What's your mask like? Oh, mine isn't very fashionable, Jenny, unfortunately. I have just a black cloth mask,

but I may try and jazz it up myself. And Kenya, have you got one? What's it like? I have one, but it's very plain and it's just a scarf that I've, it's a bandana that I just kind of tie on. I have yet to order one, but I think we're spoiled for choice now. So I need to sort of order a couple so that I can kind of tie on. I have yet to order one, but I think we're spoiled for choice

now. So I need to sort of order a couple so that I can wear one responsibly. And get the most fashionable one, obviously, in your position, yes? Yes. Danielle and Annie Clark, thank you both very much indeed. And again, we would like to hear from you on this question. Is fashion still important to you or not? And if you've got a mask, what does it look like? You can send us a tweet or, of course, you can send us an email. Now, coronavirus has made visible a group of people

who've often been unseen and unheard, volunteers. From next week, we're going to be celebrating the women all around us who see a gap or a problem to be solved and get on with it. They're the troopers. Super trooper lights are gonna find me Shining like the sun My dad used to have everyone in the house. He would feed all the kids in the street.

He'd often stare out the window and say to me, that kid looks like it's hungry. Like, go and ask that boy if he wants a banana. And I'd be saying, no, Dad, you go and ask him if he wants a banana. I'm not bloody going to go and ask him that. Some people spend all week and don't speak to anybody. It's a place for people to come and have a chat, meet new people. There's one lady that's only in her 40s who's quite isolated. She's there before I am every Thursday morning waiting

for me. He was always looking out for other people so I suppose I get it from watching him and how he sort of behaved towards people and also because my mum wasn't around, so I suppose you knew what it was like to feel like the underdog. I get quite close to some people. Sadly, I lost one of my ladies. She used to come every Thursday. She used to get a taxi. She suffered very badly with osteoarthritis,

but she always looked very, very smart. Always put her jewellery on and that. If not I help people, I feel my heart happy. If I help people, I feel better. Like a super trooper, lights are gonna find me, shining like the sun. Well, Kalina volunteers as a translator and fixer for Glasgow's Roma community. Jackie is involved in a range of projects in South London. And Margaret runs a chatter and natter group in Chester. There'll be more from them and lots more troopers over the next couple of weeks.

Now, still to come in today's programme, the soprano Laura Wright and the recording of a single for charity to mark Mental Health Awareness Week, and the final episode of the serial Doorstep Daughter. Professor Heather Viles has been awarded the Royal Geographical Society's prestigious Founders Medal for her excellence in establishing

the field of, here goes, biogeomorphology. It's led her to study the deterioration of English cathedrals and black slime growing on rocks in the Seychelles. Heather, first of all, what is, and I will say it again, biogeomorphology? Excellent pronunciation there, Jenny. Let's start with geomorphology. So geomorphology is simply the science of landscapes. If you've ever looked around you at hills, rivers and various types of coasts and wondered how they form and why do they change, then geomorphology is your subject. Biogeomorphology brings in the

additional element of how plants, animals and microbes growing on these landscapes, how they make a difference and control sometimes the processes that are going on. How important is it that it's recognised by this award? Because it was a term that I had not come across before. Well, it's very exciting, really. It's a term I coined in 1988, but is something that lots of people have studied different aspects of in the past. All I've really done is brought it all together and made it something that people can focus on. What sparked your interest in the field originally? Well, I became a geographer really because of my mum. So my mum studied geography and always encouraged me to look around in the world and ask questions. And we used to go on family holidays to exotic landscapes like Frinton and then a bit further afield to Pembrokeshire.

What were you studying at Frinton? Well, this was just holidays. So we were just being out there in our beach hut and our flat. This was the 1960s in my defence. But mum always instilled in me this inquiry, this sense of inquiry about the world around us. Now, I mentioned that you'd studied the deterioration of English cathedrals. What did you do there? What were you trying to find out? Well, this was in the 1980s when I was struggling to find a permanent job. And I was very lucky to get a job looking at the impacts of acid rain on cathedrals. And I worked at St Paul's Cathedral in London and Lincoln and Wells Cathedral.

And my job was to try and understand how important what had happened in the past was to how these cathedrals were deteriorating in the present. And what did you find? We found that history really does matter. So if a cathedral has been exposed to high levels of air pollution for long periods, it makes the stone even more vulnerable to acid rain and other problems today. And how can that be fixed? I mean, does cleansing help restore the stone or keep it in good condition? That's a really big question. That will keep people in work for many hundreds of years, I think.

What I would say is the main thing is that buildings have to be resilient and adaptable. There is no one magic bullet solution. But sometimes even working with plants can help protect cathedrals and other valuable buildings from air pollution and other problems. Now, this black slime on the Aldabra Atoll in the Seychelles, nice sort of place to get yourself to to do your research, the Seychelles, I imagine. But what were you trying to find out there? Well, this was for my PhD and your right to work on a world class. It's a World Heritage site. A world class raised coral atoll in the Seychelles was of tremendous privilege.

Most people who go out there for scientific research study something to do with ecology. It's notable for a population of about one2,000 giant tortoises. So I was really odd looking at black slime growing on the rocks. But the black slime is made up of microbes, and the microbes are having an important impact on how the surface of the island is changing over time. So that's really what I was doing, as well as having a wonderful time. Now, recent work, I think, has been in northwest China. What have you been researching there?

Well, that's a really interesting project. I've been working with some colleagues from the Dunhuang Academy in Gansu province, trying to help them conserve earthen ruins, which are part of the Silk Road's World Heritage Site. And this is a very hostile environment. It's a harsh, cold desert environment with lots of problems of wind erosion. And these ruins are crumbling away before their eyes and we've been very lucky to be able to work with Chinese colleagues to try and see whether planting the right plants around the ruins might help protect them. Will it? Yes and no and I'm afraid the answer is always yes and no in biogeomorphology. Again there is no one magic

solution but it's worth trying because plants are relatively cheap and if you have the right ones then they also help conserve the biodiversity of the place. Now you've spent your career traveling all over the world and worked in deserts all over the world, Namibia, Sahara, Chile, which I know you've described as similar to Mars. In what way are Earth's deserts similar to Mars? I know, it sounds ridiculous, doesn't it? But the characteristic things about Mars are that it's very dry and, of course, deserts are very dry. Another important thing

about Mars is that much of the rock on the surface of Mars is basalt and there are many desert environments in the world that also have basalt. Of course the real difference is that Mars is really cold and most earth deserts are not so cold, but it's the dryness that makes them very similar. But it's not suggesting that we could live easily on Mars because the deserts are similar, is it? Not at all, not in any shape or form, but it is giving us some idea of how some of the processes might work on Mars and it also might help answer questions about whether there's been any life on Mars. How difficult has some of your travel been in lots of remote locations? Weren't you bitten by a spider once? I was. I've had lots of experiences in the field. My first

daughter was born during a field project with the Royal Geographical Society in Northwest Australia. My second daughter came out into the field with me and I breastfed her in a forest in Germany when she was a couple of months old. And yes, I was bitten by a spider on the Namibia-Angola border and had to be airlifted out to the capital, where I was met by a lovely doctor who was very excited because apparently it was a very unusual spider bite. And obviously you survived it, which I'm sure the geographers are very grateful for.

Professor Heather Biles, fascinating career you've had and thank you very much indeed for joining us this morning and congratulations on your award. Thank you. Thank you very much. Now the soprano, Laura Wright, came to prominence when she was only 15 and won the BBC Radio 2 Young Chorister of the Year.

That was in 2005. She then sang the national anthem for the Queen's 90th birthday. And she sung at some of the great sporting events, including the FA Cup final, the Invictus Games, and she was England rugby's first official anthem singer. Well, to mark Mental Health Awareness Week, she's released a single with the choir of Royal Holloway, University of London, and it's called Can You Hear Me? I will hold you one day.

Laura, what was the message you were hoping to put out with Can You Hear Me? Hi, Jenny. Thank you so much for having me on today to talk about this. It's such an important message too. I really wanted people to have the courage to speak out about how they're feeling at the moment through this very, very difficult and unusual time that we're living in. So when I was asked to be involved in recording this song, which is written by the wonderful composer Thomas, it just was such an honour to be involved and I had to sing it. What initially prompted you to be keen on being more involved with charities during lockdown, trying to help people who may well be lonely and be alone?

So my father suffered a stroke about three and a half years ago. And I knew that during this time, his mental well- within his week were really important so I knew that that could potentially have a negative effect on him being being in isolation and being a person I also experienced my neighbor I just basically saw him and and realized after asking if he needed some essentials that he would be alone for a very long time potentially and also not knowing you know when the ending to that loneliness would come so I felt like I needed to do something and and to fill my time which would otherwise be performing uh doing some good so what sort of work have you managed to do directly with people in lockdown I mean obviously the single is a big thing we'll talk in a moment about how you

put that together. But direct person on person stuff? Yeah, so I've been doing some one to one sessions with lots of people from different organisations, whether that's the Stroke Association, whether that's the Soldier Arts Academy, I've been working with some veterans who have PTSD. I've also been in touch with NHS staff around the country and even singing to paramedics on their lunch break. And for me, it's been this chance for them to reset their buttons, to take a moment, whether that's five minutes or half an hour, just to enjoy music, enjoy having a conversation with someone outside of their household and to have that openness I think it's really important. What have you got out of it because you're far more used to singing in a huge stadium or a concert hall? Yeah and I think actually I'll

be quite nervous when I go back to that whenever that may be but for myself personally it has been quite cathartic being able to speak to these people and I think having the visual side of things too and we're spending a lot of time online and we're spending that time potentially doing meetings and I think it's hard to see people's body language but I've really tried to connect with those people to understand um how they might be feeling and just to listen to listen to one another and to be kind I've got a five and a half month old daughter so if you hear any gurgling in the background that's her but my time otherwise has been spent with her in isolation so don't worry we've had a lot of those in recent weeks

children taking part in national radio and we love it you have had your own experience of problems with mental health in the past what have you experienced yeah so as as you know jenny i feel sort of uncomfortable talking about this and it happened many years ago but i did suffer with my own problems with mental health, which led me to self-harm. And I think for me, at that time, it was a culmination of reasons, self-doubt, body image came into it. Also, I think when you're younger as a teenager, school can become your life and your world and your friendship circles or your world as well. And for me that that all became too much and so I resorted to self-harm and it actually became something well it did it became an addiction and I think throughout my teens and early 20s it was the thing that I relied on in a very negative

way and I suppose had it not been for my my mum and my brother actually being aware of the situation, I think I would have been in a very different position now. So I'm very grateful for them. And I suppose that's made me look back with hindsight and realise how lucky I was to have their ears to listen. You were only 15 when you won the BBC Radio 2 Young Chorister of the Year. That was in 2005. How much did that create problems for you, kind of setting you apart from the rest of your school friends? Well, I'm a very competitive person, so I really relished the challenge of doing something like that.

I was very interested in sport and music at school, and I often found actually that the two clashed, which was frustrating at times. But actually, my music teacher encouraging me to take part in Chorister of the Year was just amazing because I fell in love with choral music. And then I went on to study at Royal College of Music and studied opera and classical music. So I'm actually really forever grateful for having that kind of direction in my life, all from that one performance back in 2005. Now, you're very well known for singing and sport, as you've just said, but how much has sport been beneficial to your mental health?

Oh, hugely so. I think people are talking about it more now which is fantastic I think there's still a long way to go with those conversations but we know that being active can be so so positive for your own mental health and and well-being I make sure even now that I get outside and whether that's a dog walk or whether that's a kind of a workout in, in my small concrete garden. It's, it's very important to my own mental health. Yes. And of course you've got a baby to lift. So you're doing weightlifting as well. All people with young babies are doing weightlifting. I remember those days when sport starts to be real again and and we start seeing things in in a stadium what are

you really looking forward to seeing come back uh for me it's always the grand national i really missed that this year um of course the rugby as well has always been a big part of my life because i used to play the sport as did my brothers and but for me the Grand National Festival has become such a big part of my sporting calendar. I really missed it this year because I normally spend four or five days up there and I visit Alderhey Children's Hospital and you know the Grand National is such a festival not only for people around the world but it's local. The locals absolutely love it and they embrace anyone who's involved with it with open arms. So that's something I really missed this year and I look forward to being back there next year.

And then singing the national anthem for the Queen's 90th birthday. What was that like? I was very nervous, but it was a wonderful occasion and I think singing our national anthem is so much more than just being a singer in that moment and a performer. It's where you get an opportunity to unite everyone, to lead people in singing something together. And so I'd say it's a big responsibility to do that as a singer, but it's such a wonderful thing to do. Now, we're going to hear the whole of Can You Hear Me shortly.

It is so impressive that people are managing to do these things, the whole choir and you on Zoom. How did you put it together? Yeah, so I was approached to take part in this project and like everyone involved, we've basically recorded the audio and the visual all from our living rooms. So it's been great fun. It's been very different, as you say,

and quite a unique experience. But with the help of technology, it's all been put together. And it's been, I think we're so pleased with the outcome and we're so pleased that people are hearing this song and seeing the message that's within the lyrics. Laura Wright, thank you so much for being with us this morning. And let's hear the whole of Can You Hear Me? So far, so far away, I will hold you one day. And you hear me

I can hear you Oh, baby, not I still believe. I was talking to Laura Wright and her single Can You Hear Me? was recorded with the choir of Royal Holloway University of London. Lots of response to our discussion about the fashion industry and the wearing of masks. From Heather McCartney came, on your item regarding buying fashion at this time, I went to a well-known food hall, which also normally sells clothes. While in the queue within the shop, you were allowed to purchase clothing, but I almost felt guilty looking as I felt everyone's eyes upon me saying, clothes aren't essential.

After I finished my food shop, I did go into the clothing area and couldn't resist a pair of shoes reduced to half price. Going through at the till, I whispered to the assistant, oh, aren't I awful buying shoes at this time, to which she replied, don't be daft, there's been loads throughout the day. I didn't feel so bad then. Anne Muir said, as far as masks or face coverings are concerned, slightly worrying that there was no mention of the correct way to take them off. That is, without touching the front of the material, but by the ear-fixing, as breathing in through it means any germs end up on the front, or that they must be washed practically each time at 60 degrees to kill said germs,

and that the real benefit of wearing one stops us spreading germs and makes us aware of social distancing. Madeleine Hawkes said, I'm making cotton face masks for as many family members and friends as I can. I'm a keen quilter and have a lot of suitable material, some of it vintage cotton fabric. I've had a very positive response from the recipients, including my great-nephew, aged six. It's been a very rewarding experience

and made me feel glad to be doing something useful. Linda Bannister said, I'm wearing full make-up and going out clothes at home because if I don't, I know it will pull me down. I love clothes, but buy almost everything second-hand. Current fashions seem to either be very casual or too retro. I was there at the time, so they're not for me. I think most women will always be interested in how they present themselves. It's a form of creativity, and I love putting an outfit together with jewellery and accessories. I have my own style which suits my petite shape.

I usually wear dresses and I've noticed that more people are discovering how easy they are and don't cut you in half like separates. And Martin said, you asked for any unusual face masks. Well, how's this? I have some old clean briefs and thought carefully how I could make use of them other than as a duster. So I folded the gusset up to the waist, made a shape, put the leg holes behind my ears and adjusted it on my face, which covered it perfectly from the top of my nose, just under my eyes, to under my chin. Also being soft cotton, it wasn't too thick. And that actually was from Heather, so not from her husband, Martin,

whose email address she obviously used. Now do join me tomorrow for Weekend Woman's Hour when you can hear Baroness Doreen Lawrence discussing why the Labour Party is conducting its own inquiry into why people from black, Asian and minority ethnic communities are more than four times more likely to die as a result of COVID-19 than their white counterparts. So do join me tomorrow afternoon, Saturday, at either two or three minutes past four. Until then, bye-bye. I'm Sarah Trelevan, and for over a year, I've been working on one of the most complex stories I've ever covered.

There was somebody out there who was faking pregnancies. I started, like, warning everybody. Every doula that I know. It was fake. No pregnancy. And the deeper I dig, the more questions I unearth. How long has she been doing this? What does she have to gain from this?

From CBC and the BBC World Service, The Con, Caitlin's Baby. It's a long story, settle in. Available now.