Woman's Hour - Single at Christmas: Love it or Loathe it?

Episode Date: December 16, 2019

Being single at Christmas – do you love it or loathe it? And what does it mean to be “marleyed” or “scrooged”? We discuss embracing singledom and festive dating trends with journalist Lizzie Cernik and dating expert Rachael Lloyd. Finland’s new government is young and led by women. Last week, Sanna Marin was sworn into office, making her the world's youngest prime minister at the age of 34. She will lead a centre-left coalition with four other parties, all headed by women, three of whom are under 35. We hear from Li Andersson, the Finnish Minister of Education. And journalist Ndela Faye and Emilie Gardberg, Director of the Finnish Institute join us in the studio to discuss. ADHD is a common disorder that affects around one in twenty children. Previous research has shown that children with ADHD are more likely to be deficient in omega-3, but there was conflicting evidence that taking fish oils could help symptoms – until now. Prof Carmine Pariante from King’s College London talks about his latest study, and Prof Ilina Singh from Oxford University discusses ADHD treatment from the child’s perspective as well as the importance of taking alternative treatments seriously. Femke Halsema is Amsterdam’s first female mayor and she says she wants to make sex work in the red light district safer. Four main options are being considered including closing the windows in which women work and moving the red light district altogether. A consultation has been carried out and Ena Miller went to Amsterdam to canvass the opinions of sex workers, campaigners, a brothel owner, residents and tourists about the Mayor’s plans. Presenter: Jane Garvey Producer: Kirsty StarkeyInterviewed Guest: Li Andersson Interviewed Guest: Ndela Faye Interviewed Guest: Emilie Gardberg Interviewed Guest: Lizzie Cernik Interviewed Guest: Rachael Lloyd Interviewed Guest: Professor Ilina Singh Interviewed Guest: Professor Carmine Pariante Reporter: Ena Miller

This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK. I'm Natalia Melman-Petrozzella, and from the BBC, this is Extreme Peak Danger. The most beautiful mountain in the world. If you die on the mountain, you stay on the mountain. This is the story of what happened when 11 climbers died on one of the world's deadliest mountains, K2, and of the risks we'll take to feel truly alive. If I tell all the details, you won't believe it anymore. Extreme, peak danger. Listen wherever you get your podcasts.

This is the Woman's Hour podcast. Good morning. Your prime minister is a woman of 34. You are Finnish. We'll talk about that in a moment or two on the programme today. What's it like being single at Christmas? Here's one email we've had from a listener. This is actually a message on our Instagram feed. I have three times been dumped before Christmas. And with all my family abroad, it does get depressing when you go for the waitrose Christmas meal for one option. But over the years, I've learned that the silence of

it is really nice. I buy presents for myself and I've come to enjoy the time to be completely selfish. There you go. There's one positive reaction to the idea that being single at Christmas might be a bit troubling. Well, maybe it is. Maybe it's the best time of year for you if you're in that state. We'd love to hear from you and we'll discuss what it's like to be single at this festive time of the year. At BBC Women's Hour on Instagram and Twitter if you want to join in. And also today, alternative treatments for ADHD. That is later in the programme. Now, our new MPs are being sworn in at Westminster tomorrow.

But if you're Finnish, your prime minister is Sanna Marin, who was sworn into office as the country's prime minister last week. She is the world's youngest prime minister. She's just 34. And she's leading a centre-left coalition with four other parties, all led by women. Three of them are under 35. Lee Anderson is one of those women. She's the

head of the Left Alliance Party in Finland. And she told me a little bit about the new prime minister. You should know that she's very ambitious. She's also a very intelligent woman who's gotten fame in all of Finland because she's had such a tight and decisive way of leading. There's even some video footage of Sanna leading the meetings, which has gained a lot of attention in social media because of her style. What is her style? She's very firm and also very straight on the point. So there's not any room for bad arguments or for any messy kind of meetings, but she's very straight to the point and very firm. And she's only 34. You are 32. Both of you, on the face of it, seem to have made colossal progress at a very young age.

What's your secret? Well, I think something that both me and Sanna, what we've heard from a lot of people, is that they appreciate politicians who are frank and honest. And also, I think a way of doing politics in a straightforward way, try and incite hope in people in terms of making it possible to change the society in a more socially and ecologically sustainable way. And in terms of a gender balanced cabinet, actually, your cabinet is 63% female. Is that right? I think that's about right. Yeah. Is it apart from the fact that I've just commented on it? Is it something that your average Finnish person would comment on? Although Finland has a

good track record in terms of women's rights, Finland was one of the first countries to give women the right to vote. We also had a female president called Darja Halonen at a very early And are they honestly carrying out a different kind of politics? The most important thing in politics is, of course, what kind of politics you do, not what age you are or what gender you represent. And if you look at the government programme, it clearly has a different, it emphasises different things than the previous government.

We have set an ambitious target of making Finland the first carbon-neutral welfare state in the world. And that means both doing very ambitious climate policy, but also strengthening education, strengthening social security, making reforms in the labor market that makes it easier for unemployed people to find employment. Are taxes extremely high? No, I think...

Well, how can you do it? Finland is quite, I think, if you look at all the Nordic countries, of course, the Nordic welfare model comes with a bit higher taxes than it is in many other countries. But on the other hand, Finland is one of the happiest countries in the world. We also have one of the best education systems in the world. And I think that the Nordic model has really proven its success in terms of building universal services that works for all

of the people and really understanding the importance of education and research for countries and for their prosperity. Well, that is the voice of Lee Anderson, who is Finland's education minister. Finland, then, a paradise for all. Well, guess what? I'm afraid it's not quite that simple. Let's talk to Endela Faye, who is a Finnish Senegalese journalist. Welcome to the programme, Endela. Good to see you. Thank you. And also here, Emily Gardberg, who's director of the Finnish Institute. Emily, first of all, let's tackle the idea that everything in Finland is wonderful.

What is good about Finland, actually? Let's celebrate the good stuff first. Well, equality is really good. so I think everybody has equal opportunities. In Finland we don't really have private schools except for a few exceptions and all people go to public school. The level of education is high, it's equal if we take the example of our current prime minister who is herself from not such a well-off family and has been able to rise during this short time to the rank of prime minister. True hard work, of course, but still it's possible. You don't have to have wealth or you don't have to have sort of prior connections in order to work your way to the height of society. And childcare is, it's available, widely available, it's good quality.

And it's something that in Britain, for example, there's a culture where you might have to put your child's name down for a nursery place well before they're born even. Does that happen in Finland? No, so everything is essentially guaranteed. Of course, sometimes it happens in big cities that you have to queue up for a daycare place but we're talking about months not years and there is no way of signing up earlier so the system is really equal there is no sort of like bypass route or anything like that because you would have money it's just simply based on the amount of places that there are so everybody is on the same level and that also of course makes then the children when they actually go go to kindergarten, they get to meet people from all sorts of walks of life.

And Ella, you don't live in Finland. Would you live there again? I probably would. I think it's becoming increasingly appealing as a kind of welfare society and in terms of a safety net especially for someone with young children. Yes but I did put the question about taxes to Lee Anderson she seemed to be she said oh no we don't but they do pay a lot of tax in Finland don't they Emily? Yes we do pay a lot of taxes but we get incredible amounts of things with those I know I sound really really optimistic about it but if you think that healthcare schooling education in particular I think is the key to any sort of equality system. But then also a lot of other things that work like housing. Finland is the only country where homelessness is decreasing. The only country in Europe, actually. And sort of having those models where you actually get things working, they need money for the society to work. So what made you decide, Andela, that you didn't actually want to make your life in Finland? I know you came to Britain a while ago, didn't you? Well, I initially came here to do my studies and I don't think I came here with a kind

of long-term plan of any sort. It just kind of happened. But I think certainly the university education level was and perhaps is still very good. But that was my main pull to the UK at the time. Right. And in terms of diversity, I think it's fair to say that Finland is one of the least diverse countries, certainly in Europe? I think, I'm from Helsinki originally, so I think it is increasingly becoming definitely more diverse, but certainly not on London levels. And does that lack of diversity, did that lack of diversity cause problems of any kind? Well, I think kind of lack of representation of people who look like me in the media or, you know, as simple as like kids TV shows. It's bound to have an effect. But I was also shielded from it because I was quite young when I moved away.

Emily, is there a problem in terms of racism across Finland? Because at the moment, the current government is a centre-left coalition, as I said, but actually, there are many people who certainly didn't vote for those sorts of parties. We have had a really big rise in the right wing, the so-called true Finns, who are very much like in many European countries now, sort of like very afraid of people coming from the outside and very much like in many European countries now, sort of like very afraid of people coming from the outside and very much about keeping Finland somehow pure and hardworking and Finnish people first before others. It's a little bit like the Trump or the Boris rhetoric there.

But I think also partly why we now feel so celebratory about our fantastic new cabinet is that it's sort of like a triumph against these forces. Of course, they grow stronger and stronger being in the opposition. They can just be shouting everywhere and they don't actually have to be responsible for decisions and you have to negotiate, they were not really able. So they weren't successful when they were in leading. Right. So there can't be any certainty about this government lasting all that long, can there? Well, there can't be any certainty, but I am sure that this is a group that is really sort of set on.

So I think what is for all of these women that we are now seeing in the leadership positions, they've all had significant political careers, even though they are so young, and they are all extremely ambitious and hardworking. And I think that is something also combined with sort of this support that they are now getting from all over the world. I think this is definitely something that will carry them. In terms of gender equality, this looks brilliant. But we do know that Finland, and it's not alone here, has a real problem with domestic violence and with alcohol problems. Yes, Finland has had also traditionally.

I actually tried to read up on it when sort of those problems have started, but apparently it's quite a long historical period that has been that there is the second most violent country to women in the homes. So Finland is fairly safe on the streets, but in the homes is where the violence happens. And a lot of that happens during alcohol influence. Then there's also quite a high degree of depression

as in many Nordic countries and also high suicide rate and especially with males so one can say that Finland has aggressive males generally speaking Right, I mean of course there are aggressive females too wherever you go in the world just not as many

I think we can probably agree on that Andella, do you think actually that you will make a life for yourself in Finland, maybe in a couple of years' time? As I said, it's definitely looking more and more appealing by the day. And in terms of childcare costs being extremely appealing versus the London prices, I think that and the free education system are definite draws at the moment. All right. Good to meet you both. Thank you very much indeed for talking to us. That was Undella Faye, who is a Finnish Senegalese journalist. And you also heard from Emily Gardberg, who's from the Finnish Institute.

If you've been to Finland or you're Finnish yourself, we'd love to hear from you. You can email the programme via our website, bbc.co.uk forward slash women's hour. Now, single at Christmas, Frances says, no family, no problem. I've got, I've so loved, she says, helping put on Christmas lunch and entertainment and music and so on for all kinds of people who'd otherwise be spending the day alone for many reasons. Great team, great fun, time to go off and visit others later, says Francis He's making the very best of being single at Christmas There may be some of you out there listening who perhaps have been widowed or have lost a partner over the last 12 months

Christmas, it can be a grim time of year if you're in that situation so our thoughts are with you if this is the first time you've been single Let's talk to Lizzie Chernick who is a freelance journalist and eHarmony dating expert Rachel Lloyd is here as well. Lizzie, for younger people who are single at Christmas, does the gloom start early? Do people start panicking in mid-November? What would you say?

I think some people do. Personally, I think Christmas is a pretty good time of year to be single. My thoughts are that it's basically the same as being single any other time of year. I'm personally, I'm 35. I would like to meet a partner at some point. That would be nice. If dating ever lets me do that.

We've got Rachel here. We can find out what's wrong with it. I'll do my best. There's a lot wrong with dating, but I'll get into that later. I think, yeah, it's's just there's so many good things that you can do at Christmas you can spend time with your family um you can spend time with your friends you know you don't have to trek up to Northumberland to see your boyfriends there's

nothing wrong with Northumberland well no that's true but you know you don't necessarily want to spend your whole holiday trekking around going to see different family members basically you don't have to bother with other people's relatives. Exactly. Some would say your own are quite bad enough. Yeah, exactly. Rachel, we've had a little bit of a knock there for the dating industry. This is your world. Lizzie would say she's been somewhat let down by it.

So go on, put up a spirited defence of the dating industry. Well, it can be tough, especially at Christmas dating, because actually most people go offline in the dating world at Christmas because they're busy doing other stuff and but you know in terms of just defending the dating industry around one in three people meet online nowadays and that figure we did a study with Imperial College London and by 2037 more people will meet online than offline so whether whether we struggle with that you can knock it all you like, it's the future. Yeah, exactly. And it's the modern reality for many, as you say.

Yeah. I know that, Lizzie, you've had some tough dates. Well, almost everyone listening will have had one of those. Yeah, I think so. But share some of your best anecdotes with us. I very recently went on a date, actually, with a raging misogynist who didn't believe in the Me Too movement, really. He thought women were lying 20% of the time.

That was his figure. I didn't speak for the first hour because he was so busy talking about his own accomplishments. But when I finally got a word in edgeways, it turned out, you know, we weren't going to be a match. So I decided, you know, I'm just going to up and leave. Very politely told him I was going to go. He hurled a load of abuse at me, called me disgusting,

said I had no empathy for men. So it was quite the date. A real catch. Yeah, a real catch, tell you. Was the meal nice? We didn't have a meal. We had some cocktails, which were absolutely beautiful. Oh, there you go. Okay. Now, what about the bloke with the norovirus? Oh, yes. So that was several years ago now. That was just before Christmas that we went out on a date. And it was actually, I think it was, we were a few dates in.

And I'd actually had a nice hotel booked. It was a bit of a, I think it was a press trip at the time. And he joined me on it. And yeah, he came down with this awful stomach ache. And I was just there sort of mopping his brow, just kind of moving away in the hope that he wouldn't vomit all over me. It was quite, yeah, traumatic. Okay, I hope you can almost hear the violins playing, can't you? Absolutely wonderful.

Rachel, there are people who would say that to play the dating game successfully, you have to be a certain way, you have to behave in a certain way. Have you got any rock solid advice? Well, dating can be a brutal business, but I would always say try and enjoy it. And it always has been, by the way, long before online dating, you know. But I would say first dates, keep them simple. So you can always meet someone for a quick coffee or just say, I've got to go on somewhere. Keep it light. Don't bring in your whole history.

Meet somewhere public, obviously. And just think to myself, when I go on this date, it doesn't have to be the love of my life. I don't need to work out whether we're going to have kids and a dog. No. You know, just go in lighthearted. And if they are a bit of a, shall we dare say, freak, or they've got a serious virus.

Well, we're all freaky in a way, aren't we? Yeah. I mean, and the thing is, keep a sense of humour about it. And Lizzie, I'm sorry you've had these battles, but I mean, they do make for great stories, don't they? They really do. Yeah, you've got those and they're worth bottling. Here's another one from a listener called Constance.

I ended a three-year relationship three months ago, which actually I've come to realise was emotionally abusive. I have never felt so liberated, empowered and free in my life. So there is a positive. Some people are now thinking, right, I can be myself, possibly for the first time. On the other hand, we're also only weeks away from the post-Christmas divorce press release from divorce lawyers,

which comes out, I think, round about the 2nd of January, telling us that I think it's January the 8th is the big divorce day. The truth is it can be tough to be in a relationship at this time of year too, Rachel. I think it's misleading, especially when we go on social media. Christmas is about connection, about families. It's very easy to go down an Instagram hole and think everybody's having an amazing time in relationships. They're not. But as you say, in reality, it can be extremely stressful. And people often who are in relationship, you know, difficulty, limp through to the new year.

And we know from eHarmony that actually traffic to site in January spikes massively. So it drops off during Christmas and then people sort of come crawling out and once new year starts, people are rushing to date again. It's a Christmas carol. I think a Christmas carol is the BBC's big production being shown on BBC One over Christmas. So it's high time we mentioned Scrooge-ing and Marley-ing. Now, this is your territory, Lizzie. On you go. Well, I mean, they're all sort of terms, aren't they, really, for not being very nice to someone. So I think basically we've just invented quite a few new terms for being unpleasant to people.

Rachel? Well, I mean, we're trying to have a bit of fun with them too. I think it's a way of people sort of commiserating together. What does scrooging mean? Okay, so scrooging, we did some data on this actually, and scrooging is when people are a little bit tight and in the run-up to Christmas... Oh, no, they don't...

No, not like our listeners who've been... Oh, please. They potentially break up with someone just to avoid buying them a Christmas present. And marling is when, like with the Christmas carol, the ghost of a Christmas ex appears and they sweep you off your feet just for the festive period. People go a bit doolally sometimes at Christmas, I must say. Yeah, I think we were all definitely, there's definitely proof of that.

I mean, a box of creations is only a fiver I mean surely I mean that would suit me if anybody was thinking Well some of the Christmas presents people have bought for people include nasal trimmers pasta shells and loo rolls

according to our studies I think was it an ironing board that when a woman's presented with an iron or an ironing board that is really when she realises romance has ended I think

Yes Tends to happen in marriages Not the best choice. What about the notion, and this will be a reality, it's certainly been my reality in the past, actually, of going home to sleep in my childhood bedroom as a single woman in my 30s. Is that something that's happened to you, Lizzie,

or something you've been concerned about? Yeah, I used to quite like it, actually. My parents actually moved house when I was 26, so it's not got the same ring to it anymore. It's not the same wallpaper. Yeah, but before that, I definitely used to quite enjoy it. I quite like going home and being spoilt. My mum still gets me a stocking, which I know is really sad,

but it's also, there's a niceness to that at Christmas as well. Is there? I suppose it depends what's in it. Well, no, my mum's good at choosing presents. Much better than any men I've ever been out with, I have to say. Right. It's quite nice. No loo rolls.

No loo rolls, no. That's a plus. So, Rachel, if somebody is feeling really down in the dumps, and I am thinking particularly about people who've lost someone who is actually very dear to them, they haven't just been through a rough relationship, they've perhaps been married for 25 or 30 years, what advice have you got for them?

I would say stay connected. So have a have a you know phone a friend tribe make sure there are people you can reach out to during the day maybe other single people other people in a similar situation so that you don't feel alone keep busy yeah i mean some people will be single within a family setting surrounded by couples of varying degrees of happiness and then the people who are literally on their own. And that is a very, very different thing. And of course, some people would choose that. And I get that too. Some people love that.

But it can be incredibly tough if you are alone. And I think it's, again, about don't over-isolate mentally. Make sure that you do have a tribe of people that you can stay in contact with. You know, we've all got phones and computers. Think about it's only a limited period. It's over really quickly. We always say that every year.

Well, you say that, but it's the longest day of the year, Christmas Day. It can be. There's always wine, though. There's always wine and mince pies. But also think, what am I going to do on Christmas Day to gift myself the best possible day if I'm on my own? What do I like?

You know, what do I want to watch? Am I going to, you know, who am I going to speak to could I volunteer maybe if if you're worried about being alone but other people have a duty to to remember those people yes and to invite them and also by the way sometimes people just want the invitation they don't want to come I agree they want to be able to say no thanks I would just say that actually the best thing because I've I've had this situation where I've been single at Christmas before and worried about being alone. It's quite nice if you can go and spend an hour or two at someone else's house.

So you're not committed to the whole day, but you just have that human contact and it can be lovely. And then you're quite relieved often to just go home and be alone. That can be quite nice. Rachel, thank you very much. And Lizzie, thank you very much

for coming on the programme as well. Any more thoughts on that? Any of your own stories? We'd love to hear them. We can always read them out in the podcast later so get the emails in now. If you spent Christmas on your own, perhaps completely because that's exactly what you wanted

and it was fabulous. We'd love to hear about it. Tomorrow on the programme, Vicky Pepperdine is here. She's starring in the new Wurzel Gummidge. I will ask her some questions about the appalling Dear Joan and Jerrica, which I love and also feel sometimes I can't believe they're getting away with it. So Vicky Pepperdine is on Woman's Hour tomorrow.

Now, the NHS website says that ADHD is a behavioural disorder. It's thought to affect around one in 20 children. A Freedom of Information request by The Guardian newspaper last year showed that almost 75,000 children aged between 6 and 17 got a prescription for ADHD drugs in England in the year 2017-18. Some parents are concerned inevitably about their kids being on medication. Research has shown that children with ADHD are more likely to be deficient in omega-3 fatty acids, but there's conflicting, or there was conflicting evidence that taking supplements

could help symptoms, until now. Let's talk to Professor Carmine Pariente, who's Professor of Biological Psychiatry at King's College London, and Professor Lina Singh, who is Professor of Neuroscience and Society at Oxford. First of all, Ilana, if you don't mind, just what is ADHD? ADHD is a disorder, as you've noted. It's most commonly diagnosed in childhood, but it has also recently in the last few years been recognised as an adult disorder. And it's made up of what we think of as three components, inattention, hyperactivity and impulsivity. And it can manifest itself with or without the problem of hyperactivity. So you can have ADHD with hyperactivity or without. And without is known as inattentive type ADHD.

Now, is this something that is becoming more common simply because it is being more widely diagnosed, or are there more children being born with this condition? Well, in the UK, the data seems to be fairly consistent, actually. We have about two to five percent children who appear to meet criteria for ADHD, but we only treat with medications actually about 1% of those children. And that's been fairly consistent over the years. Right. So most children have the condition but are not on any kind of medication. Yes. So the nice recommended first-line treatment is actually parent training. And medication is meant to be kept for the most severe end of ADHD.

And it does seem that the UK clinicians are abiding by that. Right. That's interesting because that statistic does suggest 75,000 children sounds like a lot of children to me, but you've put it in perspective. So why can I ask you, Professor Pariante, what is the benefit or the perceived benefit of omega-3? Well, there have been quite a lot of clinical studies testing whether fish oil supplement or omega-3 can improve ADHD. And the results in the past have been quite variable. I mean, if you put all the studies together, we have shown that it has a small beneficial effect. But many studies found no benefit at all. Some even found some negative effect. We never really understood why. So one possibility is that,

of course, you need to match the treatment with the fish oil or omega-3 to whether or not the children have enough omega-3 in their body in the first place, which comes from diet. Purely from diet. Purely from diet? Purely from diet. Right. It's not a genetic thing of any, you can't be born with low levels of it or anything like that. There are genetic profiles that tell the body how much it can metabolize, how much it can

hold it, but it's basically coming from diet. Okay. So we might differ in the way we process it. But if we don't eat fish or the nuts or some vegetable that have it, then we don't have it. Right, okay. And the sorts of omega-3 supplements that might help, and we have to be careful here,

you can just buy them in your average chemist, can you? Well, yes, but all the clinical trials have shown that the dose you need to take are quite high compared to the one that you would normally buy into a pharmacy. So, for example, in our study, we use 1.2 gram of EPA. That's the chemical substance. The two most important, omega-3, are EPA and DHA. And you really need kind of grams of this substance every day.

And that's across all beneficial effects for mental health problems. So, for example, in depression, equally, you need at least one to one and a half gram of omega-3 to have a beneficial effect. So it's not only unique for ADHD. And you couldn't substitute taking that supplement by just eating a huge amount of oily fish or loads of nuts? Well, actually, that would be the recommendation. And we know that

for depression, for example, having a diet which is full of fish protects from the risk of developing depression. I think once you get into the presence of a disorder, so again, I'm talking about depression where most of the data are, if you have depression, then you probably need to up the dose up to a more kind of a supplementation level rather than just through diet. Now, I know you're both absolutely adamant that we are. Neither of you are suggesting in any way that a parent whose child is on any kind of ADHD medication should stop taking it and replace the medication with fish oils. You are not saying that, are you? Absolutely, we are not. And also, I want to remind everybody that the NICE guidelines,

which is kind of our Bible for the sign language treatment to offer, also specifically says that fish oil supplements are not a treatment for ADHD. But what you are saying is that some omega-3 supplements might help some children with ADHD.

So there's two important points. First, that if a child has symptoms of ADHD that are severe enough to require medication in a kind of specialist assessment, as Elena was saying before, then these children must take the medication. So there's no children that should take fish oil instead of medication if they require medication. Having said that, some children either with milder symptoms, they would not take medication anyway, could be helped by fish oil supplement, or perhaps children that are quite

severe and are taking medication and they're not getting well enough with medication, they could add fish oil on top of the medication. Right. I know I said at the beginning that some parents are concerned about their children being medicated, I suppose. What are the side effects of the most common drug given to children with ADHD is Ritalin, isn't it? What are the side effects, potentially? Well, the side effects of Ritalin, which do vary from child to child,

are that it can cause, it can suppress appetite, it can cause some sleeplessness, particularly if it's taken too late in the day, if it's still being effective in the evening hours when really children shouldn't be taking. And this is for a child who might be hyperactive, that isn't great, is it? Yes, exactly. So those are the two major side effects that parents and children worry about. I think also some parents might feel that their child's true self is being blunted in some way, that they're being made into a person they were not meant to be. What about that? Yeah, I think that that's a really significant worry that parents do have.

And we've actually spoken to children up and down the country in the UK about this. And what we found really interestingly was that children didn't identify with that concern about taking Ritalin type drugs. They did not. In fact, what they found was that when the treatment was working properly, the treatment really enabled them to re-establish what we as ethicists call moral agency. So moral agency is the idea that I can identify what I believe to be the right and the good thing to do in this situation, and I can act on that. And what children with ADHD often experience is this lack of self-control, lack of ability to regulate their behaviour. And that's actually very deeply morally distressing to them.

Yeah. So what you're effectively saying is that taking Ritalin in some cases, the children felt liberated in a way? Well, they certainly felt liberated to be able to act on their moral intuitions, act on what they believe to be the right thing to do. So for example, if someone is bullying you in the playground, can you make a decision, a good decision about how to respond in that situation? So the child with ADHD can make a decision, do I react or do I not react? It's not about whether or not they make a good decision that you or I might agree with, which would probably be not to react. Don't punch the

kid. For the kid with ADHD, the important thing is, can I make the decision itself? And so if I decide I'm going to punch the kid, that that will be for me a good experience because I made that decision. Do you want to say anything? Sorry, I just thought you were concentrating hard there. Go on. Well, I just want to stress that as much as, of course, parents are worried about the side effect of medication, we should really be worried about the consequence of ADHD because there are profound consequences across all spectrum of life for these children. You know, they do worse at school. They don't interact with their peers. So they have difficulty in social relationship.

They may develop other mental health problems like depression and anxiety. And when they grow up, if they still have symptoms of ADHD, they're more likely to do impulsive things. They have car accidents. They may use drugs. So there's a whole host of consequences of the disorder in itself when it's severe, when it's moderate to severe, when the children would be much better on medication than without. Yes. I mean, to go back to something you said right at the very beginning, that the first port of call, if you like, is actually for parents to have training. Some of our listeners will at that point, their ears will have pricked up and they will say, well, there we go. I mean, that's what it really is. It's the fault of the parents. The parents are no good. Yeah, we hear that a lot. And ADHD,

I think, is particularly stigmatized as a condition that is really about naughty children and bad parenting. And to be honest, it's often bad mothering. Well, mothers get blamed more than fathers do in the equation. And so it is a very heavily stigmatized disorder. And so probably one of the concerns that we have, as Carmine has just been saying, is that children are under-recognized and under-treatment because it is quite stigmatizing to be seen to have a problem of behavioural control. Well, I can see that the listeners are reacting already and we welcome more of those at BBC Women's Hour on Twitter or Instagram or email the programme via the website. Thank you.

Elena Singh is Professor of Neuroscience and Society at Oxford and Professor Carmine Parrient, who was also in the conversation, he is Professor of Biological Psychiatry at King's College London. Thank you both very much. Now, Enna Miller has been reporting for Woman's Hour from Amsterdam on the city's planned changes to its red light district. The city's first female mayor, Femke Alseme, has said that she wants to make the place safer for sex workers.

Now, you might well have heard Enna's first report last week on Woman's Hour. If you didn't, you can hear it on BBC Sounds. Today, we get a slightly different side of this argument because it is a very live argument, this, the future of Amsterdam's red-light district. We'll hear from two women who've got a rather less positive view of the sex trade. It's been difficult to find women to speak out about any negative experiences they've had working in Amsterdam's windows.

I'm told the city is a small place and people are too afraid. But I finally found Irena. She's a former prostitute who was trafficked for 10 years. You'll also hear from Simona, who works for a Christian charity who helped Irena get out of prostitution. Simona remembers how people like her used to be laughed at for having concerns about the red light district and the impact it's having on women working here. First we hear from Irena, who needed to sum up a little courage before we started the interview. Can I pray before we start? Heavenly Father, I come to you before your throne and I want to ask you that you will

bless our conversation. My name is Irina. I was a long time in prostitution. It was sex traffic for nine years. It was really the terrible time ever that I go through in my life. You're very upset talking about this. What's it done to you? What is done to me? It damaged me a lot. It's all my life. I still battle with that.

Did you work in the windows? Yeah, I do work in window. Yeah. As a tourist, I walk the streets in the red light district and i see these women you are one of those women standing behind the window what do you see i can't even explain it feel like monkey cut from the world there are lots of people walking with the groups and watching and laughing and they make a photo and basically feel like animals there. Horrible feeling.

They speak really brutal and very, very, very ugly language. Nobody going to talk with you like, Hi, sweetie, I give you the money money you are who you are and they treat you who you are you must be following what the mayor wants to do what do you think about the plans it's not enough to start to shut window sex shop they have to be shut down also the coffee shops with the smoking and all the things it It's a very big business. It's not only the window. It's not about the prostitute who is working there. It's much bigger. I don't think the government really care about how the woman think or feel there in window. When you

are there, you try to shut your heart totally. me for example i was dog ugly dog person who is born to be a prostitute so to not think about this pain you just tolerate it you take piece of paper you write how much you need to make it for example like i need to make it 750 for today. Every customer you crossed, 50 euro gone, 50 euro gone, 50 euro gone. I'm against the window. In the Netherlands, it's legal. When the police come and check your documents and try to do everything with a big smile, Hollywood smile, and show all the teeth and like, hey, how are you?

And speak with them like with the friends, just so they don't find out that passport fake. And inside my soul screaming for help, like, please find out. Because I couldn't say that my passport false. There is manipulation. There is killing. My name is Simona. I am 46 and I work for THDV. that's an organisation that reaches out to prostitutes. Before we start our conversation, something that I've been battling with actually,

as I've been meeting people to do this piece, and people might notice, is that sometimes I will refer to these women as sex workers and sometimes I will refer to them as prostitutes. Now I've been told off a few times for using the word sex worker so I just very briefly just wanted to understand what the issue with that is. Well there's a big debate in Holland about prostitution politics and there is a group who says prostitution is just work so they prefer to be called sex workers. And there's also a group who say, well, we don't think selling your body is normal work, so we like to use the word prostitute.

Lately, I read a research from last year that over 73% of the women working in prostitution in the windows experience violence. And that can be the yelling, the spitting, but also physical violence or even sexual violence. And I'm shocked by these numbers because that's huge. But why are you shocked? To me, why are you surprised? Well, if this is a legal business, which it is in Holland, if in any other business this would happen, we would not accept it. Is what the mayor is saying justified? Well, when I'm in the red light, let's say on a Saturday evening, I can hardly move because it's jam-packed with people. Now, a lot of these people are coming from Great Britain, and I'm sorry to offend you, but they don't have a very good reputation here, especially when

there's a soccer game. And I see groups of tourists, men, like a group of 10 men, harassing one prostitute in front of her window. And that's not a healthy situation. People are saying, well, you know, all these tourists are coming and they're spitting, they're abusing the women. You know, even women tourists are coming and they're laughing at them. But then last night I thought,

well, you sort of asked for this. Yeah, you're right. Yeah, this has been our campaign for Amsterdam for years come to Amsterdam because we're a free city we have free sex we have free drugs so you get what you ask for yeah I agree I just thought that's just what people did people just came to Amsterdam would come have a quick look around the red light district and then go and you think of tulips and you think of windmills. It's just part of what you do when you come to Amsterdam.

So what has been this shift? It's always been part of Amsterdam, and people have just accepted that and never asked questions. But over the last years, there are more and more stories of victims from the Red Light District, and these stories come out in the news more and more and there are more and more politicians who start to ask questions about this before it would basically be the Christians who would say something about it and your people would laugh at us and say oh you have

this Christians again who don't agree but But nowadays, it's not just the Christian organizations who say this, but also the other organizations who are not Christian at all. They ask this question, say, is this really what we want as a city? Do we want to be the city that is known for selling women? Isn't that weird? Because it's such a passionate subject and the views are so polar opposite, can you solve a problem like Amsterdam's red light district? We have to.

We owe it to every woman and man who's working here. So I'm strongly in favour of forbidding the window prostitution. I'm also strongly in favour to not have girls working here from very poor countries without decent education. We owe this to vulnerable people to protect them. We cannot just let it go. And in her next report from Amsterdam, Enna will meet an escort and the owner of a brothel who both believe that working in windows and being kept visible actually helps sex workers stay safe. That's a point of view. All three of Enna's reports will be available via BBC Sounds. Now, to the idea of spending Christmas on your own. Anonymous says, I love it. I also love spending Christmas Day entirely by myself. I'm single and I'm tired of being portrayed as sad, lonely or abnormal. I am solo's a choice I've made and I'm very happy with it.

I'm volunteering on Christmas Day and have arranged to meet up with a friend on Boxing Day. I'm looking forward to all of it. From Jennifer, early in my solo survival, I was 50 and I chose to spend Christmas Day alone. I took a picnic to the park and people watched. Thankful for past times, but happy to please myself. As dusk fell, I went home. I did feel a bit sad, but decided to take up a neighbour's kind offer to join their family at any point. I did, and it ended the day perfectly. I had nothing planned except to do my own thing. Jennifer, I think that's really interesting. First of all, big up to your neighbour for making that offer, which, as I said during the programme, you could just have said no to, but you didn't in the end. You thought, oh, she probably does mean it, so I will call in. And I'll tell you something else. I bet the neighbour was grateful to have you there. There isn't a family in the world that doesn't welcome a bit of dilution, particularly as the

day progresses. I will guarantee that you were a very, very welcome visitor when you did rock up on Christmas Day because things can get a little frayed. I am speaking from personal experience and sometimes it's good to have different people in the mix. Everyone starts behaving better instantly. I guarantee it. Try it. And on fish oils for ADHD,

Jessica says, my son has spent a lot of time getting the dose right and he feels the moral agency that your guest mentioned he says he can think about what he wants to think about properly he can have conversations he just couldn't have otherwise it has changed his and our lives well there are. There's somebody putting the case for medication. I know a lot of other parents might feel the other way. If you're one of them, you can let us know. I promise we will look at all the emails that come in on this subject.

Thanks for listening. We're back tomorrow. Our guest then will include the director of the new film version of Little Women, Greta Gerwig, and you can hear, too, from Vicky Pepperdine, who is one of my favourites. Look, she's a comedy actress, isn't she? She's just a very funny, extremely rude woman, if you listen to Joan and Jerrica,

which I don't urge you to do, trust me. If you're of a nervous disposition, definitely don't listen. Back tomorrow with the programme and the podcast. Henry Akeley disappeared from his home on the edge of Rendlesham Forest somewhere around the end of June 2019. They come every night now. The police don't believe me. Please, I just need you to get in touch. What we uncovered is a mystery that has sent us deep into England's past, to an area steeped in witchcraft, the occult, secret government operations.

Now we have multiple sites of five lights with a similar shape property. And something that might indeed be altogether otherworldly. This is The Whisperer in Darkness. Available now on BBC Sounds. I'm Sarah Trelevan and for over a year I've been working on one of the most complex stories

I've ever covered. There was somebody out there who was faking pregnancies. I started like warning everybody. Every doula that I know. It was fake.

No pregnancy. And the deeper I dig the more questions I unearth. How long has she been doing this? What does she have to gain from this? From CBC and the BBC World Service, The Con, Caitlin's Baby.

It's a long story, settle in. Available now.