Woman's Hour - Social media ban, Flower farmers, OnlyFans

Episode Date: June 15, 2026

The Prime Minister has announced a social media ban for under-16s to come into force in the early part of next year. The measures are part of the Government's plans to protect young people from harm online and address unhealthy late-night scrolling on phones. BBC reporter Chris Vallance outlines the developments and Nuala McGovern also hears from Professor Victoria Goodyear at the University of Birmngham, whose work explores how social media and digital technologies shape young people's physical activity, heath and wellbeing.OnlyFans is one of the UK's most lucrative tech platformss. Its success comes from hosting content posted by users, a lot of it sexually explicit, which subscribers pay to access. Now a new BBC3 documentary, Only Fans: Inside the Machine - available on BBC iPlayer from today, investigates how some women adult content creators on OnlyFans say that they are being trapped, exploited and threatened by third-party agents. Nuala speaks to Rebecca and Natasha Cox, director of the documentary. There is rising demand for homegrown blooms. According to the trade association Flowers From the Farm, small-scale growers now generate £30 million a year — with women making up 80% of members. Today marks the start of British Flowers Week, celebrating both the flowers and the women behind them, while highlighting the sector’s economic and environmental impact. Nuala is joined by two women behind Flowers From the Farm, Olivia Wilson, a florist and flower farmer, and Georgie Newberry who has a flower farm in Somerset. The Government recently launched a consultation on employment rights for unpaid carers and parents of seriously ill children. It includes consideration of Hugh’s Law, named after Hugh Menai-Davies, who died aged six from cancer in 2021. His parents are campaigning for a standalone statutory entitlement to leave and pay for parents of seriously ill children. To discuss, Nuala is joined by Frances and Ceri Menai-Davies, and Professor Lorna Fraser from King’s College London, who has been researching the impact on parents of caring for a seriously or terminally ill child. Presenter: Nuala McGovern Producer: Dianne McGregor

This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK. The Signal Awards recognise the podcast that define culture, and being honored by the Signal Awards sets your production team apart with recognition from the industry's top experts and access proof that your work is a standard bearer for podcasting worldwide. By entering, your work is heard by the Signal Awards Judging Academy, an invitation-only body of podcast professionals from acclaimed organizations which include the BBC. Grow your audience, celebrate your team and stand out.

The final entry deadline to submit is the 26th of June. Enter your podcast at signalaward.com for consideration. Hello, this is Newellamoghren, and you're listening to The Woman's Hour podcast. Hello and welcome to the program. Well, it's a big day for the country, said the Prime Minister, as he announced a social media ban for under 16s. We'll get into what we know. It is a massive shift, and I'm wondering, how are you feeling? Relieved? Concerned? Empowered?

And what is your teenager told you? Well, Sir Kiris Stomer said it will mean more time, more freedom for your children. How do you see your teenager using all that time? And what would it mean for you? Now, I particularly want to hear from parents whose children have been glued to a screen despite your best efforts to pull them off it. To get in touch, text the program 844-on social media where at BBC Women's Hour, or you can email us through our website for a WhatsApp message or a voice note.

The number is 0-3700-100-444. Really curious your reaction to that news. Also, staying with technology, a BBC investigation has found that some women, posting adult content on Onlyfans suffer exploitation and coercion at the hands of their third party managers. We're going to hear from Rebecca. She's a UK content creator

who says she was threatened and abused when she tried to leave her manager and that agency. Also today, we give flowers. They're flowers, so to speak. It's British Flowers Week with women at the forefront of growing them in the UK so we shall celebrate their success

and see what women in the industry. would like to happen next and we'll speak to the parents of Hugh Menai Davis. They'll be with me in studio to tell us why they are pushing for Hugh's law, which would give extra employment protections to parents whose children are seriously ill. But let me begin with the announcement by the Prime Minister that from next year under 16s will be banned from social media. He said social media is making children unhappy, making it easier for bullies to abuse children, and is designed to be addictive.

He also added that the ban would give children more time, more security, more freedom to grow up, as well as more opportunities. So let's hear more detail and also the initial response to this significant change. I'm joined by the BBC's Senior Technology Reporter, that's Chris Valence, and Victoria Goodyear, professor of physical activity, health and well-being at the University of Birmingham. Her research looks at how social media and digital technologies impact young people. Good to have both of you with us this morning. Chris, it's not even been two hours yet,

but what has the initial reaction been to the announcement? Well, I think, funnily enough, it sort of mirrors the reaction that there was before the announcement, which was heavily trailed, including a sort of a division, if you like, between those who feel that more must be done but disagree over whether or not a blanket ban and Australia-style ban is the right way.

So certainly for campaigners, for many who've been fighting for this. It was welcomed and many of them were there when the announcement was made. I think on the other hand, we've sort of seen some questions about whether this is the right approach. And the Molly Rose Foundation has been quite vocal in that. Ian Russell, Molly Russell's father speaking about really this sort of being a shutting the door, but leaving everything that was wrong with these platforms there behind that door,

if you like. You know, the detail was sparse in some ways on what we heard with that initial announcement. Do we know exactly what platforms may be included or what might not? Well, that's really interesting because in a sense they mentioned some of the platforms. So Snapchat, YouTube, Instagram, Facebook, X, TikTok. But actually, the detail that they've given out to the press suggests that really there isn't an end to the platforms. that it might apply to if they are social media platforms. So quite a broad range of platforms,

we know that it won't apply to messaging apps. So WhatsApp and Signal won't be included under the umbrella of social media. But it could also apply to AI chatbots, which simulate sexual relationships. That's been an area of concern, and I'm sure your programme has spoken about. that on a few occasions. And also some restrictions on functionality. And again, that kind of goes a bit beyond Australia where you're looking at things like live streaming or the ability for adult strangers

to contact children. And some of those restrictions, if maybe apply to people who are up to 17, up to 17. So it could include 16 year olds. I mean, that was interesting, I thought, in his speech, where he talked about, you know, would a parent, a their child to meet up with somebody that they did not know and communicate with them, which he was saying kids can do online in certain arenas. It has been called Australia Plus by some. Australia did not include gaming, came under criticism for that at certain points.

Will gaming be involved? Do we know? Yes. It explicitly say that they will apply to a wider range of online services. including gaming sites, whether that will be all gaming sites or gaming sites with social functions, that remains to be cleared up. Do we have any response from social media platforms? I mean, some of the criticism had been that the technology companies should take action instead of the government trying to enforce restrictions. Yes, well, as you might imagine, we've been bothering all their press offices to get their reaction.

So far we've had a reaction from Snap and YouTube. Snap says the majority of time spent on Snapchat is private messaging between friends and family, an outright ban that disconnects teens from those relationships doesn't make them safer. It may simply push them to less safe platforms. And YouTube says, if I cut some of the preamble, blanket bans push kids out of these safe curated spaces, supervised beneficial experiences and towards anonymous, less safe services. So really, both those platforms emphasising the danger that people move away from their platforms where they try and protect children to platforms that do less.

I mean, I think I heard spring was, spring 2027 was one date mentioned for certain inform. What specifics did you hear? Pretty much the same, spring 2027. I mean, this will be brought in, in large part, by secondary legislation. So that does speed things up a bit. But, you know, there are areas that they're going to have to look at, particularly age verification. I mean, they're going further than Australia, which says reasonable steps.

They want to copy the Online Safety Act wording, highly effective age assurance. And that will have to be looked into. particularly where it applies to sort of find differences between people's ages, sort of 16, 17, that sort of thing. So I think they'll spring 27 for some of it, whether we get all of it, by that time, I'm not so sure. Chris Valens, thanks very much. I know a busy morning for you.

We appreciate it. BBC Senior Technology Reporter. Well, let me bring in a Victoria Goodyear, Professor of Physical Activity, health and wellbeing at the University of Birmingham. Who's been looking at all this. Good to have you with us. Sir Keir Starmar, just some of the lines he had, Victoria, be curious for your thoughts. It says social media stops children from doing their homework, reading, playing with their friends and going to bed at a decent hour.

Is that what your research found? Good morning, yeah. We've worked with young people across the UK in a national evaluation of how they're using social media and smartphones as part of the school phone policies evaluation. And one of the key things we've heard from that is that social media is currently embedded in the lives of young people. spending minimum two to four hours on social media per day. Firstly, there are some benefits to use in social media, and these are including connections, learning, entertainment. So young people talk about it, having given them downtime,

helps them to forget things about real life, stay connected to friends. And in some cases, it facilitates homework, so things like study talk is on TikTok. But we do see what those work. highlighted in what you've just mentioned, they have been brought up in our research and voiced by young people, parents and schools. So we see harm in the context of distractions to learning and education, less physical activity and sleep. And these can all negatively impact on well-being. So key examples is having a notification on your phone from social media and that distracts you from

doing your homework. I mean, many of us will be aware of notifications and how distracting they can be. And I suppose I'm wondering as well, Victoria, you know, as you talk about some of the aspects that teenagers talk about, you know, connection or learning or entertainment, but of course, you don't have to be online to have those things. And I'm just wondering, can you see that shift actually happening

in the way that the Prime Minister was laying out? Yeah, I think it's going to be a very, interesting time as the policy comes into force and also looking at the longer term shifts. So, you know, it would be interesting to follow how the young people who have never had access to social media develop and it's not just about those that have it taken away from them at the moment. And, you know, we do see in our research, you know, it does limit engagement in physical activity. It does limit learning. So that time of two to four hours, it's important to consider how young people replace that time and what they're doing on it, but also what support is in place

for young people as that time is taken away. So in education, in community settings, for parents, it's all important to tie those things together to see that young people are supported. It's kind of interesting, a couple of messages that are coming in. You might be interested to hear them too. My son went on social media due to COVID. It helped to maintain relationships. He makes efforts to go into maintaining positive algorithms for himself. My other son uses WhatsApp to play with friends. I don't know how it's going to work taking social media away from my youngest son until he turned 16, question mark.

And I think that's getting to your point, Victoria, right? Like what happens? You turn 16, your birthday and all of a sudden you're given social media? Yeah, exactly. And, you know, it's really important to help think about how we transition young people into a technology-filled world. Lots of the things that we do at the moment, you know, logins and different aspects of payment or organising activities run through social media accounts.

And in that context, how do we help young people, if the new point is age 16, what is going on in education to help young people how to manage and use social media effectively and self-regulate? So that parent that just mentioned about having their own controls over certain features, that's a really important approach that can help young people mitigate some of the potential harms that they could experience. Lots of messages coming in. I'm not surprised. Here's Rose. She says I couldn't be more delighted, relieved by the social media under 16 ban. My 15 year old daughter has been asking weekly for TikTok for nearly three years. I finally feel vindicated that we did the right thing. It has been a long ride. And she'd be 16 once the ban comes in, but we won't need to have that discussion for the next six years with my younger sons. Another, I totally agree with the good meaning of this and something certainly needs to be done. However, the responsibility to enable this will rely quite heavily on parents.

I overheard a conversation in my class of year fours last week regarding facial recognition, which went, I got my 15-year-old cousin to face ID for me and now it just works. Sadly, many parents do not want to engage in the discipline required to enforce this at home. My school sends out regular emails, reminding parents of age limits, etc., because of the time spent in school having to sort out, quote, out of school issues, unquote, which have started because of messaging it. etc, on social media that children simply should not have access to. But it's interesting, Victoria, because as Chris was telling us,

WhatsApp won't be included or signal, which are messaging services. You know, what is detrimental and what is not? Yeah, so I think social media makes up the majority of screen use currently for young people. But the functions that they use, you know, I said at the start, they use that for connections, they use it for learning. So technology as a whole is not going to go away and there's going to be other platforms and functions and features on phones that they still use.

So this is where education and guidance for parents remains really important as we think about screen use as a whole and how we help young people to develop healthy technology habits. The Department for Education is introducing guidance for 5 to 16s for screen use to help parents managing that. And that will really help parents make some informed decisions about how they support young people with social media, but beyond that at the moment.

So beyond looking at all types of devices and platforms. We shall continue the conversation. 8444. If you'd like to get in touch, that's the text number, giving old-fashioned perhaps way of communicating. Victoria Good Year, Professor of Physical Activity, health and wellbeing at the University of Birmingham. Thank you so much for your insight this morning. One of the stories we are talking about on Women's Hour.

But I want to turn to another technology story. and this is about OnlyFans. OnlyFans is one of the UK's most lucrative tech platforms. Its success comes from hosting content posted by users. A lot of it sexually explicit, which subscribers pay to access. Now, a new BBC 3 documentary called OnlyFans inside the machine. It's actually available on BBCI Player from today. Investigates how some women, adult content creators on OnlyFans

say they're being trapped, exploited and threatened by third-party agents. Here's Leanne. She's one woman who shared her experiences in that documentary. She started doing lingerie picks on only fans, then found herself pushed far beyond her comfort zone by an agent. And I do want to let you know that you may find details in our interview ahead, distressing. I told him, like, you know, would you be all right taking me if I didn't do any sort of explicit? But they were like, that's fine.

Like, we're hoping to do that, whatever you're comfortable with. Then I'd get a message. Then I'd get another message. I just kept saying no, no. and then they sent me a message, and I just went, right, I tell you what, I'm going to do a video like a full explicit video. So I did a video, I felt physically sick.

I'm like, just sell that and do not sell it for any less than $250. And I remember waking up, I think it were two days after, and seeing two pins on my phone. And I thought, $36. Two people had bought it for $36. And I honestly, I just, I cried. I honestly, just remember, feels so.

So I'll discuss it in. Leanne speaking there, one of the women featured in this documentary. In a moment we will hear from another content creator, Rebecca. But first, I'm joined in studio by Natasha Cox, the director of that documentary, OnlyFans Inside the Machine. Good to have you with us, Natasha. Now, you spoke to 60 women content creators. There's sometimes also called models who put material onto OnlyFan sites.

Why did you start this investigation? Yeah, OnlyFans is the UK's greatest social media success story. There are now more than 4 million creators worldwide, a significant proportion of those creators live here in the UK and is totally transformed how content is made and sold online. So we wanted to understand more about this growth, and we soon discovered a parallel phenomenon that was growing alongside the platform called OnlyFans managers.

So OFM is referred to quite a lot for those that are within the industry that's OnlyFans managers. Exactly. These are third-party agencies and they help creators grow their accounts, boost income, and we found hundreds of these agencies online. Their promises are to look after marketing, fan retention, deciding on what content to produce, and they take a percentage of a creator's earnings in return. And of course, that percentage can raise a lot of questions as well. But what did you find from interviewing the women? Yeah, so we spoke to 60 female creators up and down the country and we found that their experience, of working with managers was not an isolated issue. This was a systematic issue that we found

where agreements between manager and creator would often involve a lot of coercive control or pressure. These commission rates were 50% cuts or even up to 70%. There were demands to hand over login details and pressure to produce explicit content. If creators didn't deliver this, there would often be threats or in some cases, as you will hear later, physical violence. And the login details would mean that these managers, I put that in inverted commas, for some that these managers would have access to their banking details. I should say that OnlyFans, I think, takes 20%. So then it would be 50% of 80%, for example, as Natasha speaks about some of the figures there. I want to let our listeners hear from Rebecca. And she is one of the content creators of adult content on the OnlyFans platform.

She contributed to your programme. Again, I want to reiterate, you may find parts of her interview distressing. I asked Rebecca why she got into this work, posting pictures and videos of herself. And it's work that she first started doing just last August. Rewinding back to a few years ago, I was in a bit of financial difficulty after losing my daughter's dad. A year after that, I was then diagnosed of cervical cancer.

So my whole wheel just came crashing down within, a couple of months of each other. And when I had the all clear from the cancer, I just didn't know what I wanted to do with myself. So because I was struggling with money, I was in a lot of debt. So I just thought, why not give her a go? What have I got to lose?

Did you know other people who did it? Or what was it? I'm just wondering, like, what was the idea that was put in your head thinking, you know, or was it somebody? Open-minded to the adult industry. Always have been, nor that I would ever thought

that I would go into it before, but my friend used to be a stripper, I used to, like, fully support her. And I just, yeah, I just thought, we'll just see how it goes. Did it feel like a leap at all? Or no, kind of a natural progression? I think a natural progression

because I always used to post photos on my Instagram and my bikinis and things like that. Anyway, so it was quite the same, yes, the same kind of photos that I post on social media to what I do on my only fans page. But then,

little bit of nipple, maybe. So you might show a nipple that you wouldn't show on social media? On social media. No, I get banned on social media. But it is a conduit, right? Like, you do find people, let's say, fans on your social media platforms that then you kind of drive them towards. Yeah.

So reels can push it. TikTok lives can push it. And then from doing things like that, you get the traffic through to the only fans then. And so with only fans, you decided to set up a page. Were you nervous about it? of her? A little bit, but after everything else I had gone on, it was literally whatever got to lose.

And you decided financially probably worth it? Yeah, it was worth giving a go anyways. How did you find it? Yeah, okay, a bit slow at the beginning. I just had mostly local people just being nosy at the beginning, which was probably more daunting, because they didn't want local people seeing me like that. But, yeah, it eventually got a bit better.

and I decided to join an agency, which was good at the beginning, but later on the line, it was disaster. And we will get to that. But tell me a little bit about the mechanics in the sense of OnlyFans, what you needed to do, how it affected your life,

in the sense of how much time did it take up? Oh, it takes a lot of time. A lot of time. So basically, got to do three reels a day on social media. So that's between Instagram, TikTok. and X or Twitter and then

daily posts on your only fans page and then you've got to do PPV which is pay-per-view so that's Vigures, photos where the customers then will pay further for personalised or pay-per-view content. Right, so it's quite a lot. And

you're hoping obviously for a financial return on that but hard to know exactly how much you might make. Yeah, it's very sometimes you've got to push. It's not just people pay, you've got to you've got to sell yourself really on there and get the men to want to buy your content it's not as easy as they just subscribe

and buy everything and to do that how do you it's very hard yeah it's very hard especially men give me the heck anyways so when they're trying to flirt with me and I'm just like I don't really want to float back but you go to make the money sometimes

you've got to provide a connection or... Yeah. Go to form a relationship really and just, yeah, tell them what they want to you. And yeah. That can translate then to money, obviously, if you have more fans on your only fans account. You say gives you the...

Did you enjoy the work at all? Yeah, I don't mind doing the work itself. All I've done is laugh for months because it is quite funny because the girls are there with you and we do have a laugh doing content. but yeah it's just the men afterwards they give me the heck then because you were approached by agents

how did that first start so my friend that I knew at the time she was with this agency and she reached out to me to see if I'd wanted to work with them so I decided you're to go for it what did they say to you that convinced you they first started off saying that they were only

taking 30% of my earnings. Right, and only fans would take 20% anyway. 20% anyway. They promised that if things are going well, they were going to fly me out to Thailand and we were going to do loads of content on Thailand, etc. And yet, none of that happened. It went downhill after about six weeks.

But you thought it would be worth them taking that cut if they were able to increase your earnings? Yeah, so they do all the chat inside of it And so that was a massive relief for me because that's what I hated you and I hated actually speaking to the men. But you did decide to leave at some point. Yes.

Why was that? They were taking 50% instead of the 30% then. So they'd lied about the percentage. They'd then gone out to Thailand, getting Thai people to work on my account for a dollar a day. And I'd lost so many customers because the English was so bad. So would the agents or people working for the agents

be responding as if they were you to customers? Yeah, they were pretending to be me, but it was a shambles. And then you made the decision to leave that agency? I spoke to the agency first, and I said about the issues, and they said they were going to solve it. And I gave them a week or two, and nothing had changed. So I thought, you're not having this 50%. I'm going.

And did you get a response to that? Yeah, a lot of abuse. A lot of abuse. A lot of abuse, yeah. At first, when you spoke to them over the phone or mess with them? Yeah, I had a boost throughout the... So it was good for a first few weeks. And then if I would do certain content, they would tell me,

oh, you look like shit, oh, it's not good enough. They would make me feel so small and not good enough to do it. And then when I eventually left, they told me that they were going to smash the house. get me and my daughter beaten up. But when you heard some of those threats, everything from your parents to potentially hurting your daughter, which must have been so frightening. It was horrific, yeah.

What was going through your head at that stage? Did you think they were empty threats? Yeah, I did. And because they were out in Thailand, they just thought, oh, they're just throwing their toys at the prom now because obviously they're living off my wages. So I just thought it was, yeah, it was empty threats. So the first time it was a brick through the window?

A brick through the window, yeah. You were at home, alone? Yeah. Well, it's me and my friend. We were watching TV. And I thought my glass cupboard came off the wall. So I'd gone up the kitchen, nothing had moved. And then I could feel a draft from the front room.

So I put the light on in the front room. And my windows were just gone. but did you think immediately who that might be? No I know because I don't like to think anybody would do something like that especially to a single mum so for ages

I was in my own head the police I called the police they'd done an investigation and see if there was any CCTV or any witnesses but there was nothing but the threats kept happening and then with the agency, so I was like, it's got to be then.

But it did get worse. Yeah. A couple of weeks later, I've then returned home from an evening at with the girls, and as soon as I've walked in through my front door, I've had a gentleman coming after me, assaulted me, saw me up the stairs, dragged me back down, strangled me,

and it was very odd because he just came in, throw me around and then he just got off and left. What was going through your head during that time? I thought when he was on top of me strangling me, I did think I was going to die. It was horrific. I saw some of the photographs from after that assault as well. You're black and blue.

It was very distressing to see some of those pictures, both on your neck and also your legs, your arms, which you think was from. where he threw you up and down the stairs, as you mentioned. But something like that, I mean, that is extreme. Yeah, it was looking back now, I think at the time I was just like, right, okay, just keep going or just do something. I didn't want to feel like they'd won kind of things.

But you are convinced that your agent was behind. Yeah, and especially with all the threats. And I've got no bad blood with anybody else. I get on with everyone. Did you go to the police that time? Not that time, no. The morning after, I packed mine and the little ones things and we'd gone away for about two weeks

because I just didn't want to be in the house. And I just told myself, I was like, I'm just going to kill you with kindness. I'm going to show you that I am good enough and I can do it with or without an agency. So it's more, yeah, that was my way of getting back to them then. And you've been safe since? Yes.

Yeah. The messages have stopped? Yeah, completely stopped. I haven't heard of them since then. Such a difficult experience. And one that people might think that you would never go on Onlyfans again, for example, but you are still on the site.

Yeah. Because they told me that I wasn't good enough and I'd be nothing without them and I was like, do you know what? I'm going to show you that I can be something without you. I understand. I think you're with an all-female agency now. Did I hear that correctly?

Yes. So they are gentlemen, but they just do the statistic side of social media. So they tell me what I need to do on social media to get more views and traffic through. And then the girls deal with all the photos and the content side, which makes me feel a lot better. I mean, what would your advice be to people who are considering using an agent? Do research on your agencies. Like, there are good agencies out there and good management. teams who are legitimate

who do respect you but just do your research because you do get a lot messaging you. I've had about three today just message me on Instagram being like oh hi I'm with an agency do you want to work with us you want to work with us and they've only got about 200 followers

on Instagram so they're not legit yeah so just be careful and just do a bit of research before jumping in are you going to stay on Oni fans. I mean, how long do you think

you might be on it? I don't know. It's not going to be a ferrette of a thing. I think I just want to get myself to a certain place where I want to get. And then I have got other plans. Like what?

I love to go into real estate or property development. Oh, I used to be a horse ride instructor. So, yeah, maybe one day I'll make enough money and have my own ride in school. But, yeah, who knows? That was Rebecca, an adult content creator on OnlyFans.

Thanks very much to her for giving us her story. Still with me is Natasha Cox, director of that documentary, OnlyFans Inside the Machine. Very compelling to listen to Rebecca. How have OnlyFans Natasha responded to your investigation? We contacted Onlyfans and they said that they take user safety incredibly seriously and invest in measures to keep their community safe. They told us the allegation. that they turn a blind eye to the issue is unfounded.

They said they do not endorse management agencies. They investigate reports of wrongdoing and work with law enforcement where appropriate to support investigations. They said that any bad actors should be reported to Onlyfans and where necessary to the police so that appropriate action can be taken and to protect their community.

I also want to read a statement from Ofcom who said regulated sites and apps such as OnlyFans must assess the risk of their services being used to facilitate the commission of offences. We've provided guidance to services on how to identify content which is likely to be exploitative and platforms must act to take this type of content down when they become aware of it.

Any offences which take place entirely offline, however, are not caught by the Online Safety Act. We would urge anyone who is being forced to post content online against their will to contact the police. I do want to let people know. You can find out more about this topic and watch the programme which is on Eye Player from today. I want to thank my guest and Natasha Cox

and also Rebecca, as I mentioned. And if you have been affected by any of the issues that we've been speaking about, there are links of support on the BBC Action Line website. The Signal Awards recognise the podcast that define culture, and being honored by the Signal Awards, sets your production team apart with recognition from the industry's top experts and access proof that your work is a standard bearer for podcasting, worldwide. By entering, your work is heard by the Signal Awards Judging Academy, an invitation-only

body of podcast professionals from acclaimed organizations which include the BBC. Grow your audience, celebrate your team, and stand out. The final entry deadline to submit is the 26th of June. Enter your podcast at signalaward.com for consideration. Thanks for all your messages coming in on the social media balance. talking a lot about technology this morning. Here's one. I'm a university student with three teenage siblings and I totally support the ban.

Every single one of my friends has been exposed to extreme, distressing content online and it's only now in our 20s that we're realizing the effect it has had on us. Social media is happy to shoehorn deeply distressing content towards our algorithms and I feel like I'm battling trying to protect my siblings

from those harms that parents fail to recognize. It's pervasive, reaches directly into classroom conversations, I'm glad to see that adults are finally catching on. 84844 if you'd like to get in touch. Now, many of us give a lot of thought to where our food comes from, but how much attention are you paying to where your flowers come from? Here's a stat.

Did you know about 80% of flowers are imported from abroad? But the British cut flower industry is having a moment with new recognition from the government and demand for homegrown flowers rising. I'll give you another stat with 80% in it, the number of women in the business of growing them. Well, today, flowers from the farm, that's an industry group, kicks off British Flowers Week

by celebrating the flowers and championing the women who are growing them. And can you bear one more 80% stat? Well, that is that buying flowers grown here could reduce the carbon footprint of your flowers by 80%. So says my next guess. They are two women behind flowers from the farm. We have Olivia Wilson, who's a florist and flower farmer even,

and Whitby in studio and Georgie Newberry also joining me. But this time from her flower farm in Somerset, and I have you on my screen, Georgie. I mean, it looks idyllic behind you. Maybe you can describe a little bit where you are. Well, I'm in my flower studio, which is basically a very fancy shed. And don't let people think that this happened overnight. This is 17 years I worked in this.

this place to save up for a fancy flower shed. But I've got a sink behind me with some amy majors. I've got a glut of amy majors in the tunnel. So I thought I'd better cut something to look nice on the picture. I've got a piece of furniture that my husband, I found years ago. And it says waste not, want, not on it in the middle. And I think it's very apt for a cut flower studio. It's sunny day, so it looks good.

It looks great. Like out of a rustic trends, I feel like I've been brought to the countryside. But tell me, Georgie, how are. British flower is different from those that are imported. Why do you think people should buy British? Well, for a start, you buy locally grown flowers and they are likely to have a less than 20% of the carbon footprint of anything imported.

Please, of course, there are great growers around the world. But the minute you put a flower in an airplane and fly it across the world, in an airplane which often flies back to its home country, empty, that's not going to do anything for the carbon footprint of those flowers. And there's a biosecurity thing. If you buy flowers that are grown in the UK, they won't have perforce being dealt a chemical blow to kill off any kinds of bugs or insects or invertebrates that might be living in them. So if you buy a flower from me or one of my flowers from the farm colleagues, you may find an aphid on it. And that's marvellous because that means that you're,

local ladybird will have something for lunch. I thought you're going to say your local lady has been working very hard, growing your flowers. Olivia, let me turn to you. Here's one little factoid that I found out yesterday, that the scent should be different from British flowers. Totally, because often actually the amount of scent that a flower has is directly related to its vase life. So often flowers which are bred to be imported, they are specifically bred to have less scent so that they can last longer in your vase. they can survive the transportation. And that means that because we are growing flowers

which haven't had that process, which aren't being bred in the same way, they are often much more centred, which is what makes them, I think, so powerful because they really connect us to nature. I know what I have picked up flowers before. I've definitely seen import from Kenya or off in the Netherlands, actually, it was two that would strike me.

But I was walking by a shop yesterday. I did lean over, there was a bunch of sunflowers, and it did say British grown. But I was wondering how difficult or easy is it to find British flowers, Olivia? Well, I think labelling is certainly something that would be really helpful to have more labelling so people were able to...

That's interesting because some, the first group that I went to, I couldn't figure out where they were from. This was just yesterday as I leaned over. Yeah, I think it's certainly complicated if you have a mixed bouquet because sometimes flowers will have come all over the world, which I think is something that people aren't aware about, really,

because, you know, the roses might have come from Kenya, the filler flower might have come from somewhere else. So I think that is complicated. but generally there are supermarkets you are able to get some British flowers there but I think that actually increasingly you should find that there is a local flower farm near most people and actually you can find where to buy flowers on the flowers from the farm website there's a really useful flower finder and actually it's increasingly easy for you to get hold of British grown flowers.

A flower farm finder on your website? Yes, yeah. Okay and that's also the same name as. the industry group, Flowers from the farm.com.com.uk. You can find them there. There's a lot of Fs there. Flowers from the farm. Find your flower farm. Local fire. But the question would be, and Georgie, let me throw this over to you. At the minute I mentioned flowers, people say, oh, they're so expensive. Is it more expensive to buy British flowers? I would argue not now. I think back in the day, perhaps they were. Perhaps we were better at valuing our time

and the effort that went into it. And, you know, in the UK, wages are protected by law. So if people are growing flowers for sale, the amount that they have to pay themselves in order to be able to live is protected by the government. So if you buy very, very inexpensive flowers that have been flown in from aboard, don't think, gosh, these are great, these are cheap.

Think instead, wow, how much was the person who grew them, harvested them, processed them, wrapped them, sent them on an airplane, and I'm still only paying whatever small amount of money it is. compared to those I might buy in the UK. I would say, however, that locally grown flowers are now, I'd say pretty much like for like on the pricing, because world events have made it more expensive

to bring perishable goods into the UK. And with the price of oil and the dreaded Brexit and wars around the world, actually locally grown flowers are often a really good and not badly priced option. I know you say dreaded Brexit. Other peoples were very happy that it happened. That is your opinion.

Let me turn to women, however. Obviously, I have two of you here. 80%. I was really surprised by that figure of the amount of independent growers that are part of your industry group. Georgie, you were a writer for American Vogue. How am I looking at you with your apron on

and a big bunch of flowers behind you in your rustic country house? Well, I think that you all evolve. And, you know, the dreams you have. in your 20s may not be the dreams that you have in your 50s. And it seemed to me when I, you know, life kind of throws you Googlies. And I found one day that I was no longer working for American Bogue and I was not living in Paris.

Instead, I was living in Somerset and I had to find something to make a, to do to make a living. And I could grow too many, I grew too many sweet peas. And I think six peas is a good example. Often people find they can either grow sweetmeat or not at all. So I had too many sweet peas. and it became completely obvious to me that I should sell them. And that was 16 years ago. And the flower farm has just evolved since then.

I think there's lots of fortunate things have happened around flower farming since I started. Social media, I know it's a hot topic. Sure is this morning. Social media has made it possible for small businesses like mine and other people growing from home to sell their business direct to the customer online for free. and without that I'm not sure that I would have been able to do what I do but it's really easy now you can farm your garden you don't have to have an enormous amount of space

you can specialise in something that grows really well for you we need more flower farmers there's a the market is there for us so actually if there's something you can grow and that you grow well then the chances are that people in your neighbourhood will want to buy it and you don't need to necessarily be the be the grower of all things. When I started, I felt I had to grow everything because I didn't know where else I would get British-grown flowers.

But there are now, I mean, I've got five people within my really immediate neighbourhood growing flowers. And one of them is a specialist, daily a grower. I grow quite a lot of roses. Between us, we're supplying our local market. I'm not just on our own. I love that idea. I saw an interview you did previously that, like, one neighbour does the foilage,

so to speak and somebody else so that you can make a bouquet. I love this idea of all these women coming together, growing their own thing and then creating a bouquet of everything that you've managed to cultivate between you. So you need your neighbours, so to speak.

You need your neighbours because there aren't enough of us. We can't grow the whole... We don't want to take over the whole British market. There are wonderful flowers that are imported. You know, we grow less in the winter. You know, we're not saying don't. have imported flowers. But what we are saying is if we collaborate together and there are now flower hubs popping up around the country, which are collaborative organisations with local flower

farms getting together to be able to sell larger quantities to florists who are used to being able to order larger quantities at a time. And it's working really, really well. We, you know, we have to be collaborative. It's an extraordinarily not competitive industry. So interesting. SIC codes, standard industrial classification. Why do they matter, Olivia? Well, they are the most important thing for sort of recognising cut flower farming as an industry in its own right.

I think often what's interesting with governmental statistics is that they lump a lot of different things in together and it's sort of impossible to differentiate between the fact that there is this real resurgence of cut flower growing in the UK and having that SIC codes means that we can identify each other,

identify ourselves and the economic contribution that we're making and also in the future, the ecological contribution. So it's a really pivotal and exciting moment. So this is also been awarded just recently by the government to the British cut flower sector. And, you know, as I was thinking about flowers, why do we love them so much, Olivia?

Because I was thinking they mark so many important. Like if we have a lovely colleague who's leaving, we get them a bunch of flowers, sometimes at the birth of a child, or the death of a loved one, or a wedding. Or like, why do you think there's such a mark? in our society for something significant? I think the relationship between humans and flowers is actually intrinsic.

It goes back from time immemorial. It's represented in cultures across the planet. And I think that that is something that's why I'm really glad to be talking about it today because I think sometimes flowers can be dismissed as frivolous. But actually they really do represent the most important moments of our lives, the burst, the death, the grief, the sorrow, the joy. And I think that they say the words that we cannot. I think that they're actually really quite important

and that's why it's so amazing to be celebrating British Flowers Week and celebrating the season-led florists and the growers and that are really championing this resurgence. It's like art, I think. I want to thank Georgie Newbury and Olivia Wilson. If you did enjoy this discussion, you might be also interested to hear our special programme about women in farming.

That's available on BBC Sounds. It was recorded last year and features women from all sorts of farms, from an edible flower and herb farmer to a dairy farmer. It's the 26th of May last year. One message that's just come in, OMG, I so want to be a flower farmer, so you might have another few recruits, Georgie and Olivia, to flowers from the farm.

Thanks for all your messages that are coming in in relation to social media as well. Here's another. I just don't understand the tech companies. They could make serious profit from devising a highly moderated and regulated social media platform aimed at under 18s, or it could even be set up to only enable access at school and via registered homeschool accounts and be used to teach about safe use, disinformation, etc. I worry about the 16 plus cliff edge

we were talking about this morning. Philip also wrote in to say, it would probably be easier for children to find social media less hard to give up if we adults weren't on our phones most of the time. We set the example. 84844, if you'd like to can in touch, Mani, if you have.

another, my children have used social media to support revision for GCSEs in a positive way. Very interesting that a lot of people getting in touch are in their 20s and have gone through it and are really looking at this ban as something positive for those that have gotten touch to me. I'm sure there's many more who feel differently, 84844 if you'd like to get in touch. Now I want to turn to something that is very sad. It can be every parent's worst nightmare. a child becoming seriously ill. And when that illness stretches over months

with repeated hospital stays, around the clock care, how do parents balance being there for their child while remaining in work? Well, last week the government launched a consultation seeking views on employment rights for unpaid carers and for parents of seriously ill children. So included in that consultation is consideration of Hugh's law. It's named in memory of Hugh Menai Davis,

who died when he was six from cancer in 2021. His parents have been campaigning for standalone statutory entitlement to leave and pay for parents of seriously ill children. I want to thank Francis and Kerry Menai Davis for coming in to the studio this morning. Good morning. Good to have both of you with us. And I'm very sorry for your loss.

Also with us is Lorna Fraser who's Professor of Palliative Care and Child Health at King's College London and NIHR Research Professor who's been researching the impact on parents of caring for a seriously or terminally ill child. Francis, let me begin with you. Why is Hughes Law needed?

There are so many different reasons why Hughes Law is needed. For me, it's really important because as a parent, the only thing you can do is be by yourselves, by your child's bedside. You don't have a choice. You need to be there to sign off for legal procedures. Sorry, medical procedures.

So nobody else can be there anyway. But as a mother, I didn't want to leave my child's bedside. When I was pregnant, I feel there were all these rights afforded to me. And you see other women afforded rights as well with maternity leave. maternity pay, job security and protection. Yet if you find yourself in this terrible position where your child is sick, you will find that there is nothing. And it's fundamentally wrong. We believe that parents deserve better. And that's why we're campaigning for Hughes Law. So what would you like? What would it look like to you? Like a one-time payment or

standalone payment for a parent? So we have the consultation going through at the moment. So it's giving different options and variables. Our charity, it's never you, has proposed three months of payment. There are already businesses taking this up. So some businesses have offered this flexibly throughout the year, which is probably, in my opinion, a good idea because caring for a seriously old child is very unpredictable.

Of course. So that caters to the unpredictable nature of a child. Having that flexibility, I think, is really important. But it's not just about the financial side. As I was saying, with maternity, when you take time to look after your baby, you have that job protection to come back to that same job. And that's another aspect of huge.

law of Hughes law is having that same security and protection and that stability because at such an uncertain time you've got so many things going on. Your sole focus should be on your child, not worrying about whether you can return to your job after they've finished their treatment or sadly in our case passed away. Yes, and again, I want to reiterate that I'm very sorry for your loss. you was diagnosed with soft tissue cancer in 2020 and I'm wondering Kerry how did you find that juggle between being in hospital and balancing work and I know you've spoken to so many other parents

and this is why you set up a charity to try and help them yeah absolutely we were fortunate I'll say fortunate as someone's diagnosed with cancer but Hugh started chemotherapy on the first day of the second lockdown so we are theoretically paid to be by the bedside with furlough and other schemes. But when we saw COVID restrictions lifted, we saw those same parents being pressured back to work.

Right. Trying to make a decision where take a Zoom call next to their child and having chemotherapy in their bed, taking important calls, getting reports done. And those pressures compounded on a really devastating situation. I've always admitted that I was financially okay during the period when Hugh is being ill. but it's watching other parents go through it

that's the really difficult side of it and since we started a charity in 2022 the amount of messages and emails from parents that were suffering because they've got no stability no financial income no job protection anything. Some might say there are certain benefits

time off for family independence or DLA disability leave allowance for a living allowance, excuse me, there could be financial support for carers allowance. Why are those benefits not sufficient? Because, for example, disability living allowance, you can only apply for it three months after your child's diagnosis, and it's based on the child's needs. There's no specific right, apart from carers leave, which is five days unpaid, there's no specific right that allows the parents to legally be by the bedside of the child in hospital. And it's not like you get

notice of this. He was diagnosed on a Friday. He was having surgery on the Saturday. You need to jump into action. And, you know, Francis and I have always said, if you're a parent with a child, there is nowhere else you are going to be other than their bedside. So no matter what the employer says to you, you're going to be while your child's bedside. So what we're asking for is

something on a statutory footing that protects the employer and the employee so they can be where the matters most. I understand. Let me bring in Professor Lorna Fraser here. who's been researching the impact on parents. You've spoken with hundreds of parents with experience of this. What did you find about the impact on the parent going through something, which is devastating, I'm sure, for them? Thank you.

Unfortunately, the experience that Francis and Kerry are talking about is not unusual. And the parents that we've interviewed have obviously talking about the profound impact of receiving such such. to devastating diagnosis for their child, but also the impact on their own health and well-being. We've shown that mothers have a higher risk of mental health and physical health conditions, and there's no standardised offer of psychological support to parents in the position that Kerry and Francis were in. In terms of financial support, we interviewed 55 bereaved parents, so parents, after sadly their child had died.

And they talked a lot about the impact on family finances and their own employees. as well as the added cost burden of caring for a child with a serious illness. It was real pressures of juggling work. Now, while some employers were able to be more flexible, others couldn't be or chose not to be because there wasn't that legal basis on which their policies in place. But also the support that was offered to parents from hospitals and from charities is not equal. Some hospitals will provide free parking,

some charities provide meals, etc. but it's not equal and we know that children, there are more children with serious illness from areas living in areas of high deprivation and also from our ethnic minority communities. So that cumulative impact on the family is quite profound.

And the other thing that we just want to highlight is that the financial impact continues after a child dies. There's only two weeks statutory bereavement leave from the government if your child dies and you have to have been in work to be eligible for that. How realistic, Lorna, do you think it will be, and likely, perhaps for the government and employers to take Hughes Law on? And I know it's a consultation of exactly what iteration it might have, what level, what numbers, you know, how long, for example, or how much? I mean, I think it is.

If we, you know, if you took the example where you removed the three-month eligibility for a disability living allowance, you're talking about paying three-month. more to families. But I would really urge people to think and the government to think about the longer term benefits of enabling parents to stay, to have rights to return to work. I've worked with

lots of parents who have had to be out of work for five, ten years caring for their child and their ability to get back into work is really hampered by the gap that they have on their CV as well as a terrible experience that they've gone through. So I think if if the government took a medium

and long-term view on the impact of the additional financial support, I think it would soon show that actually it was very much in everybody's benefit for that to happen. Just on the Disability Living Allowance, Department for Work and Pensions did say that our thoughts are with Francis and Kerry Minai Davis. Ensuring disabled children and those would long-term health conditions get the support they need is important to us, which is why we've taken action to meet the rise in demand for child DLA by increasing staffing levels. We also understand the huge difference carers make, which is why we've delivered the biggest ever cash increase in the earnings threshold and uprated the benefit whilst delivering the first sustained above inflation increase to universal credit.

I know you mentioned Kerry, of course, what you see of some of the shortfalls with that. But I want to thank both Francis and Kerry for coming in and also to Lorna. And I do want to let people know if you've got experience, whether as a parent, a carer or an employer, and would like to contribute to the government's consultation, It closes on the 1st of September. There is a link to it on the Woman's Hour website. So do feel like getting in touch with that

if you have something that you would like to add. But I do very much want to thank Frances and Kerry and I, Davis, in particular, for coming in. Tomorrow, 10 years after the Labour MP, Joe Cox was murdered, we'll be discussing the impact of her death and the safety of female politicians. That's all for today's Woman's Hour.

Join us again next time. I'm Kate Lamble and from Understand from BBC Radio 4, this is rinsed. Last time I was here, there was a tampon and there was a condom. A sewage scandal damaging our rivers. We had an enormous range of animals in the garden and that also started to disappear. Uncovered by ordinary folk taking on powerful people. And they told me there's nothing wrong with the river windrush. basically go away and stop troubling us.

This is the story of how a centuries-old battle between public good and private profit created an almighty stink, and who pays to clean it up? Rinsed. Listen first on BBC Sounds. And I thought, no, you're the problem. The Signal Awards recognise the podcast that define culture, and being honoured by the Signal Awards sets your production team apart, with recognition from the industry's top experts and access proof that your work is a standard bearer for podcasting worldwide.

By entering, your work is heard by the Signal Awards Judging Academy, an invitation-only body of podcast professionals from acclaimed organizations which include the BBC. Grow your audience, celebrate your team, and stand out. The final entry deadline to submit is the 26th of June. enter your podcast at signalaward.com for consideration.