Woman's Hour - Southall Black Sisters, Audrey Powne, Dr Michael Mosley's exercise snacking

Episode Date: July 12, 2024

Three women who were the victims of a racial attack have had the charges of assault made against them by their assailant discontinued by the CPS. Selma Taha, the executive director for advocacy group Southall Black Sisters, and Danae Thomas, two of the women, join Anita Rani to talk about what impact the charges being dropped has had, and how they’re hoping this might impact further action against racist violence against women and girls. Saturday’s Wimbledon champion will be a first time winner in SW19. Czech player Barbora Krejcikova will face Italy’s Jasmine Paolini after they each won their semi-final – one of the semi-finals was the longest on record! Anita is joined by BBC Sport’s Karthi Gnanasegaram from the commentary box at Wimbledon. The Australian vocalist, pianist and trumpeter Audrey Powne was drawn to jazz from a young age. Her style ranges from hook-laden synth pop songs to long form cinematic soundscapes, RnB ballads and free jazz improvisations. She has recently released her debut album, From The Fire, and she joins Anita to talk about her work, the inspiration behind the album and to perform live in the studio.Radio 4 and Woman’s Hour are remembering Dr Michael Mosley’s life and work. "Exercise snacking” is one of the approaches that Dr Mosley tried out on his Radio 4 podcast Just One Thing. Marie Murphy, Director of the Physical Activity for Health Research Centre at the University of Edinburgh and Professor of Exercise and Health at Ulster University, explains how you can boost your fitness even if you don’t have much time for exercise. WOW (Women of the World) has published a new anthology, allowing young women from across the globe to pen a letter about issues most important to them. Anita speaks to two of its contributors, Mwinono Chumbu from Malawi and Olivia Mandle from Spain.Presented by Anita Rani Producer: Louise Corley

This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK. I'm Natalia Melman-Petrozzella, and from the BBC, this is Extreme Peak Danger. The most beautiful mountain in the world. If you die on the mountain, you stay on the mountain. This is the story of what happened when 11 climbers died on one of the world's deadliest mountains, K2, and of the risks we'll take to feel truly alive. If I tell all the details, you won't believe it anymore. Extreme, peak danger. Listen wherever you get your podcasts.

BBC Sounds. Music, radio, podcasts. Hello, I'm Anita Rani and welcome to Woman's Hour from BBC Radio 4. Good morning and welcome to Friday's Woman's Hour. As you've just heard there, we across the BBC are paying tribute to our colleague Dr Michael Mosley and we are holding a Just one day one thing day so this morning I'd like you to tell me about the one thing you've changed to make a difference in your life you may have been inspired by one of Michael's many health hacks standing on one leg whilst brushing your teeth taking a cold shower or how about eating two pieces of dark chocolate a day? Or maybe it's something else.

Reading a book a month, keeping a diary every day, volunteering, smiling at a stranger, getting a dog and taking it for walks, getting therapy, getting a piercing, a drastic haircut. You tell me what's the one thing you've changed and what impact has it had on your life? You never know. You might be the one inspiring the nation today. Get in touch with me in the usual way. The number is 84844 to text. You can email us via our website or how about dropping me a voice note on 03700 100 444. And it's Friday. Audrey Pound, singer, songwriter and jazz trumpet player will be here. That's still to come. First, Wimbledon reaches its

climax this weekend and yesterday saw two ferocious semi-finals. We now know that the woman to lift Saturday's trophy will be a first-time champion in SW19. One of yesterday's semi-finals was the longest on record, totalling two hours and 51 minutes. Italy's Jasmine Paolini was the victor. She will be facing Czech player Barbara Krejcikova, who paid tribute to former Wimbledon champion and her former coach, Jana Novotna, who died in 2017. It was a very emotional moment.

And to talk us through it some more, I'm delighted to say we're joined by Karthi Nanasegromgram who joins me live from Wimbledon from the commentary box Carthy good morning I caught up with the just the moment when Jasmine won and it made me really emotional I can't imagine what it was like actually being there how did her semi-final go? Yeah at this point in the tournament with just a few days to go I think everything makes all of us emotional I'm sitting on centre court at the moment in a commentary box which is just a fantastic level you can see the grass being checked the stewards just making sure that everything is ready as people start to enter the gates have just been opened at 10 o'clock and Jasmine Paolini as you mentioned she's really emotional she's really expressive

and she's incredibly smiley which does make make a big difference. She has become a fan favourite very quickly. She hadn't won a match on grass until last year, until last week, sorry, when she was playing at Eastbourne. She's played here at Wimbledon, not been able to do the same as she does on clay court services here at Wimbledon. But she is such a lovely presence that people have really taken to her. I've been interviewing her a lot over the last couple of years and even when she's losing she smiles it just seems to lift her spirits and get her back into the match so yeah Jasmine Paolini the seventh seed from Italy also a very good tennis player not just to talk about her personality she reached the French Open final just last month so she's really on a roll and she's one of these players who's just come through later in her tennis career to have a really excellent run now to reach back to back Grand Slam finals

is really quite something and she said as you as you just mentioned that that was a really difficult match for her against Donna Vekic a Croatian player the longest women's semi-final in this tournament's history at 2 hours and 51 minutes and they really were going at it and Vekic was crying a lot because she was so exhausted at the end of that match. The whole thing was incredibly emotional. Yeah, I think I read a quote by Billie Jean King

saying that, you know, she felt either one of them could have won it and she felt for Vekic because they just put it all out there. Shall we talk about the other semi-final? Barbara Krejcikova, who was the winner? How did that compare? Yeah, it was interesting because actually it felt quite flat at the beginning

because there was so much emotion invested in the first semi-final that it took a while for the second one to get going and for the crowd to get involved and even for the players a little bit because they don't show their personalities quite so much on court. The 2022 Wimbledon champion Jelena Rybakina who was favorite to win this title she's very calm on court she's talked about not wanting to put her personality out there too much and so she was up in the first set against Barbora Krejcikova who is a French Open champion herself in the singles and has won 10 Grand Slam doubles titles. And it's, again, somebody who has had double success and then trying to come through in the singles later in her career,

who seems to be, again, having that calmness. And she is doing incredibly well. And it was Craig Cheekover who came through that semifinal in three sets, really had to turn the match around. And as you mentioned, she talked about Jana Novotna, who was her mentor, her coach. She cried on court and I spoke to Barbara Krejcik-Cavilla after the match as well to have a long conversation with her for an interview for the BBC tomorrow. And she talked so much about what Jana Novotna had said about Wimbledon because this place meant so much to her. And it's interesting to see with different players from around the world what Wimbledon means to them. It's such a such a special place absolutely tell us a bit more about Novotna

Jana Novotna was a Czech player and depending on if you were old enough you might remember that she lost a final here I think that one was 1997 and she cried on the shoulder of the royal family member who was here I can't remember who it was now. But it was just such an emotional moment. She collapsed really onto the shoulder. And it was just quite a special moment. And then she came back to win the Wimbledon title. And that was what was so exceptional, that she had that resilience.

1998, the following year, she came back and won the singles title. And that really meant that everybody here you know what it's like when you get emotional in front of other people people then really take you to the heart as they did i suppose with somebody like andy murray who lost the title uh in 2012 and then came back to win it in 2013 so she niana navotna is duchess of kent sorry yes there we go she was crying there we go it took me a while to remember um it was the duchess of kent and at that point you didn't really touch the royal family as well so the fact that she cried on her shoulder everybody really noticed it and Novotna then won the title and she then coached

Barbora Krejcika and some of the younger players that have come through since then but um she did die of cancer and she kept it very quiet she didn't really tell anybody about it so it was a it was a huge shock to everybody when she died at the age of 49 um in 2017 and that's why Craig Cheekover was emotional yesterday just remembering what Novotna had said to her about playing here at Wimbledon yeah of course you can totally understand that now this is going to be a first time win for either of them at Wimbledon are we seeing these opportunities open up because some of the more dominant players have left the sport or not reached their potential in the tournament?

It's, yeah, a bit of a mixture of both. I think there's a level of belief that people have. Somebody was saying that even Emma Adekani, who won the 2021 US Open, having come through qualifying and then all the way through the tournament, even that has given players this idea that you can do anything.

That had never been done in history before. And at the time, I was saying it probably never would be done again. But then the woman that beat Radhikani, Lulu Sun, a New Zealand player who had come through qualifying, looked like she might be able to do exactly the same thing. So I think it is that Billie Jean King phrase. If you see it, then you feel you can be it. And people are just looking at other players like Jasmine Paolini, barbara krejcikova these two finalists tomorrow who have come through

later in their lives late 20s not teenagers or early 20s and have built and learnt become resilient hold their emotions and can perform at the highest level and do that now so we will have a new name on the trophy and yes some of the other players potentially like Coco Goff like the world number one Igor Shiontek haven't performed as we might have thought but I think the pressure gets to them because the players that are lower ranked perhaps don't feel that they have that same dominance on court anymore and so they feel they can beat them it's it's all mental it's not not it's not that physical on a tennis court it's very much about the mentality and side note it absolutely delights me that Jasmine is 5'4". Yes, me too.

And absolutely owning it out there. She's like the only tennis player that I don't need to wear heels when I'm interviewing her. Very good. So who's most likely to win tomorrow? Oh, the only thing that I think could separate them could be experience. And that would mean Barbora Krojicova having won a Grand Slam title before and having won several doubles Grand Slam titles

might have that slight edge but there is so much grit behind that smile for Jasmine Paolini so I would hope it's a three step match again, that's a great showcase for women's tennis and I maybe would just say that Barbora Kro creature because i might have

it simply for experience reasons you've put it out it's an overall it's i'm looking at centacore now it's such a majestic stadium that it can be overall um have you told me you've got a bowl of strawberries in front of you as well kathy uh not quite yet no but they are the cheapest thing here two pound fifty for a bowl of strawberries and that is um that is a bargain um kathy thank you so much have a great day at wimb. Kathy, thank you so much. Have a great day at Wimbledon today. Thank you very much. Lots of you getting in touch with us

to tell us about the one thing you've changed in your life that's made a difference. And this is because all day today on the BBC, we're paying tribute to our colleague, Dr. Michael Mosley. Sharon in Lincolnshire said, January this year,

I decided to compliment a stranger once a day. Some days I don't see anyone as I'm so rural. But when I do see people, I find that the stranger's shocked reaction of delight to be flattered is so pleasant. Thanks for that, Sharon. You'll find that if you smile at a stranger in London as well, you can shock some people as well. I walk down the stairs backwards all the time because of Michael Mosley. I miss him, says Pat B. An email from Davina says, who's just one thing is exchanging gratitudes with her friend Scotty. They do three a day each morning. One for oxytocin, something they're glad of. One for serotonin, something they're good at or getting better at. And one for dopamine dopamine something they're curious about that might be a generic or something imminent 84844 these are delightful to read out so keep them coming in the one thing that you've changed that has made an impact in your life and it can be something inspired by dr michael mosley or something completely different and maybe you'll inspire us

now in september last year selma taha and danee Thomas and Davina Riggan were on the tube together when they say they were victims of a racist attack. The assailant in question, another woman, is reported to have accepted a caution for racially aggravated assault after being arrested. A few months later, Selma, Danae and Davina were told that they were being charged by the Crown Prosecution Service for common assault by beating. Their trial was supposed to start on Wednesday this week at Highbury Magistrates Court. But just beforehand, the CPS discontinued the charges, saying the trial was unlikely to lead to a conviction. Selma, who is the CEO of Southall Black Sisters, a black and minority ethnic women's organisation, joins me now along with Danai. Welcome to Women's Hour, both of you.

Thank you for taking the time to come and see us today. I'm going to start with you, Selma. Can you take us through what happened to you on that night in September of last year? Thank you for having us, first of all. So in September of last year we went out on essentially what was just we were going to a bingo three black women

in our 40s and 50s went out for a couple of hours on our way home we took the northern line and before we knew it we were the victims of a disgusting verbal racist abuse, which we were called, you know, some really offensive names. We were called slaves.

We were told that it's not her fault that we're lesser than her. And we were subjected to monkey chants. When we challenged that, when I challenged that, this then quickly escalated into a nasty, violent attack where clumps of hair were pulled out of Danai and myself. And I sustained two bites to my left arm, which necessitated a tetanus and hepatitis shot, as well as antibiotics. But the most shocking thing of all was that there was, sat next to our assailant,

was an off-duty police officer who did absolutely nothing, nothing at all to de-escalate the situation or protect us in any kind of way. He did step in finally when it became violent, but he did nothing. And then when we complained about that, we were then facing charges. So as well as the common assault that we all were charged with, Danai and Davinia were also offered and then charged with public order offences, one of them being a racially aggravated one. We have had a statement from the Metropolitan Police.

They sent us this saying, on the 29th of September 2023, an off-duty Met officer was present and intervened during an altercation that began on a tube train. This altercation continued inside an underground station until the arrival of British Transport Police.

The incident was investigated by them and not the Met. A complaint was made to the Met's Directorate of Professional Standards in relation to the off-duty officer. This was referred to the Independent Office for Police Conduct, who are reviewing the case. Danai, what were your first thoughts immediately afterwards? How did you feel?

After the attack? I felt vulnerable, scared, angry and just a a roller coaster of emotions. You know, you live it every day, but when it's on such a high scale, when it physically happens to you, you're never surprised by racism, but then when someone says something racist to you, you're taken aback by it.

Yeah. And it just has caused us to live on high alert. How are you feeling today? How are you feeling talking about it? Go ahead. I'm still shocked. I'm still upset. I'm very angry. But I understand and recognise that we need to speak about this. We need to raise awareness about this because this is the lived experience of every black person in this country. Every day when we step out, we put a face on, right? We deal with microaggressions and sometimes open racism. And we have the opportunity to choose if we want to engage with it or not.

But when the that racism becomes, you know, violent, when somebody is invading your personal space, you no longer have that choice. A physical attack for me, this is the first time, it's not the first time I've experienced racism, but it's the first time I've been physically attacked because of the one thing I can't do anything about, which is the colour of my skin. How did it impact you when you learnt that the assailant had made a counter-allegation and that the three of you were charged with assault Danai Originally I thought it was hilarious that we was going to

we was getting called in for an interview and even when we were interviewed and the police sort of said oh this is what we're going to charge you with I didn't think the CPS was going to authorise it and when I realized that they'd authorized it I was dumbfounded just taken aback by that because I really didn't think it was going to go that far and so there are we are in that situation where we were the victims of a racial verbal abuse and physical assault. And now we are the aggressors and language that's been used to describe us loud, aggressive, intimidating.

Those are the tropes that as black women, we navigate on a daily basis. So even so, not only have we been physically and verbally abused, we've been abused by the system that we're supposed to have faith in. And the system that we pay for. We pay our taxes, we pay the salaries of these police officers, those that work within the criminal justice system. But we're not seen as deserving victims, which is, we know this happens every day through the work that we do. vulnerable in our society, you know, namely migrant women that have no recourse to public funds,

who are victims of domestic violence and other forms of male violence or gender based violence. And the core work that we do is advocating being their voice for them challenging those very same institutions, right, that are there to serve and protect. I'm going to read out the statement from the British Transport Police, and this is what they said. There is no place for violence or hate speech on the rail network. Detectives carried out a thorough investigation. This incident, to establish the full circumstances, this includes extensive reviews of CCTV, body-worn videos,

and witness testimonies to provide independent accounts of the incident. A file is then sent to CPS to make decisions on whether it meets the threshold of a charge. And I'll read out the Crown Prosecution Service what they said. We have a duty to keep all cases under continuous review and following information received in the past few days. We decided that there was no longer a realistic prospect of conviction and these charges were discontinued. Selma, you were supposed to be in court today. We were supposed to be, exactly. Today was going to be a three-day trial. A three-day trial. So how were you preparing for that? How do you prepare for something like that? I know I haven't slept in months I know um the night before the first day of the trial I was awake at five o'clock in the morning when I was supposed to be getting up a couple of hours

later to make my way down um how do you prepare for again on a daily basis we we encourage well it's your job exactly you are the ceo of south old black sisters right you know one of the most established women's groups in this country who've advocated as you've said for women of color for decades and here you are we provide you know advocacy and support services we raise awareness but when it happens to you but when it happens to us it's no longer anecdotal i can now speak of my own personal experiences but it's not like we didn't know this doesn't happen is the point i'm trying to make but what do you do what do you do other than continue to challenge and it is because we challenged, because I first challenged our attacker and then tried to hold the off-duty Met police officer accountable

by challenging him on why he didn't do anything. This has now been turned around on us and we are now the aggressors. For 10 months, by the way, this has been hanging over us. What kind of support did you get from family and friends through the 10 months? A mixture. Obviously, everyone was very supportive. But then this isn't, I mean, for our immediate family and friends and from those within the black community. This is what they know happens. So you know that some will be deflated and do not want to engage, and the responses you get will be, well, what do you expect?

We know this happens. We are nothing. We are not valued. There is a two-tier policing system. But the two of you, why don't you tell us the sector that you work in? I am an ISVA and I am a BAM ISVA and I support male survivors of historic and current sexual assault and rape. So you know a bit about the system and so you have a bit of agency and power. But what if I didn't? Exactly.

When you think of the young black girl, when you think of the homeless woman, when you think of the migrant woman, the woman that has no recourse to public funds. Where English is their second language. Where English is their second language. They are not fully aware of their rights. And usually when they do report or and what they hear when women do go and report, what the police focuses on is, for example, their immigration status rather than the crime that's taken place.

We've talked a lot about women's generally faith in the police, but we know that trust in police is very low at the moment, particularly among women and even more so among women of colour, black women. So in your statement in front of court on Wednesday, you said this experience had reaffirmed your lack of faith in the police. What did they need to do to restore that faith? Well, on a personal level and relating to our case, I would say that first and foremost, we're owed an apology.

We're owed an apology for the discriminatory treatment that we received at the hands of the Met Police, the British Transport Police, and the criminal justice system. And we will be exploring, you know, what legal remedies are open to us through the civil courts with our legal team. You've got to understand as well, these months, you know, depending on the outcome of the case, that's going to affect our careers.

And the sector isn't something that you go into lightly. It's because you are passionate about advocacy. And, you know, I met Selma in victim support as a manager and because of her I'm in this sector and I'm very passionate about this sector and to study to be in IDVA and be in ISVA and for it to just be taken away by someone's disregard of our experiences. That impacts our lives, our mental health, physically, mentally. What would your message be to other black women and girls who might have gone through this, who are worried, who don't have the sort of platform that you do?

I think I would start off by urging the Met Police to, first of all, accept the findings of the most recent Casey report by Dame Louisa Casey, which also highlights the institutional racism, misogyny, and homophobia, which was also highlighted 30 odd years ago in the Macpherson report, that will show a willingness to the black communities, as well as with the apology to us, that they are listening, that they are trying to learn learn and that they're actually implementing those recommendations we know you know some of them have been implemented such as trainings but um how much training do they need yeah and what has this done for the two of you personally you have to as as your jobs stand there and represent for other people. Yeah.

And now it's happened to you. And I can see, even talking to you, that, you know, this is very raw and, you know, it's hard to talk about. So how do you find the strength? It's difficult. What's it done to you? When you are supporting a service user and you're trying to convince them to have faith in the system,

the same system that is trying to ruin you that's quite that's quite it's it's difficult to navigate um having support from friends and family but also where we work is very important to kind of understand that and we were lucky enough but i think it's important that we continue to report yes um because by doing so we raise awareness where there are failings and um you know if a victim of crime a black woman a young black woman feels she's not getting the responses that she deserves because they have a duty of care to protect us then that's when um you know hopefully she can be directed to the services that can help and i've already um read the statement from the metropolitan police earlier in the interview

just very quickly where do you find your strength to keep going we've got no choice we take take it day by day. Yeah. Day by day. And recognise when... There's this trope with the strong black woman, which can be quite dangerous at times, because being strong... Exhausting?

Well, I'm not strong. I'm just a woman trying to survive. Every day I, you know, just try to navigate the racist system that we live within. Racial fatigue. It's absolutely racial fatigue, but we just have to keep going. I know it's my anger that's driving me at the minute. So, you know, on Wednesday, the first day of the trial, just before we entered, we had the common assault charge dropped. I know it was a good day. I know we no longer have this hanging over us. But I can't, I can't, you know, live with the fact that I'm supposed to be grateful for that. What am I supposed to

be grateful for? I was a victim of a violent attack. and then you charged me. So now I need, I've got no justice. We have had no justice and we will need that to move on. We need justice and we need people to be held accountable. Thank you both for coming in to speak to me this morning. Thank you for having us. That's Salma Taha and Danai Thomas. 84844 is the number to text. Please keep getting in touch with the various things, anything you want to talk about really that you've heard on the programme. But we are paying tribute to Dr. Michael Mosley on the entire BBC network today. So the one thing that you've done to change something about your life. Lots of you getting in touch. Sue says, I miss Michael Mosley so much.

Loved all his radio and TV shows. My husband and I have stuck to the 5-2 diet ever since Michael introduced it many years ago. Lost weight initially. I've not put on a pound since. So grateful to him. And Gillian says, Michael Mosley's philosophy helped me to see that I can be in control of my life. I can choose how I live by changing small things. Changes don't have to be massive to make a difference.

Thank you. I'm Sarah Treleaven, and for over a year, I've been working on one of the most complex stories I've ever covered. There was somebody out there who was faking pregnancies. I started, like, warning everybody. Every doula that I know. It was fake. No pregnancy. And the deeper I dig. Every doula that I know. It was fake. No pregnancy.

And the deeper I dig, the more questions I unearth. How long has she been doing this? What does she have to gain from this? From CBC and the BBC World Service, The Con, Caitlin's Baby. It's a long story. Settle in. Available now. I'm coming in. Now, very excited to talk to this next guest. The Australian vocalist, pianist and trumpeter Audrey Pound was drawn to jazz from a young age. Her style ranges from hook-laden synth pop songs to long form cinematic soundscapes, R&B ballads and free jazz improvisations. She's recently released her debut album From the Fire. Delighted to say she joins me now in the studio. Love the album. Thank you so much for listening.

Oh, no, absolutely. Congratulations. Tell us about it. How would you describe the sound of From the Fire? Oh, that's quite a hard question. I know, I just went there. I think it's quite cinematic. And it's all jazz influenced and jazz inspired. But there's also songs, pop songs and lots of trumpet solos. Yeah, but I tried to be as authentic as I could about who I am and all my influences. How beautiful to be liberated to just create something that you wanted to.

It doesn't have to fit into a genre, but you are inspired by jazz. I'm educated in jazz as well. So most of what I love is somehow from a jazz space, I think. So what drew you to jazz? Well, I think because I started playing the trumpet. But when I was young, I always loved, my mum used to watch a lot of MGM musicals and there's sort of the great American songbook and then I watched this film High Society heaps with Frank Sinatra and Bing Crosby and Louis Armstrong but then when there was an option at my rural primary school to learn an instrument I saw the trumpet and was like oh I know what that is I'll go with that one and then once I started playing the trumpet that I loved it and that sort of led me into jazz. And then I just, yeah, I always kind of loved it as a teenager.

How rural are we talking? Not that rural, like an hour and a half out of Melbourne. So, yeah. And I only lived there for primary school and then I moved to inner city Melbourne. So I'm a city girl. How difficult is it to play physically? It's very difficult, actually. Like it's a, so because there's only three buttons, valves,

you change the pitch of the notes by changing the speed of the air. So you have to have a really good ear and be able to hear the note you're going for. But it's dealing with a lot of really small muscles, primarily in your, like all of the muscles that create air. So your diaphragm, your lungs. Yeah. It's really the air doing the work and then your lips react to the air. So complicated.

Magic. How do you control the breathing? Yeah. You do a lot of like, I do long notes every day. It's a very physical instrument. You have to practice every day. You can't really take too much time off or you feel it. Do you think you'd be a natural diver who can hold your breath?

Well, I think if I... Have you tried that? I haven't tried it, but I don't love swimming. But I do love it. I just don't like it when it's like exercise based. Fair enough. But I think I know I have a big lung capacity so I've done tests and I know it's like extraordinarily strong for someone my size assaulted while I was living in New York City and I just felt I had pretty bad PTSD and

it really felt hard to be a musician after that. It was quite, you know, I was quite scared of going out and you really need to leave the house to be a musician. And it was right before the COVID pandemic. So then I ended up going back home to Australia and living with my mum. And I was really struggling to find a reason to keep making music and play music. I was quite, you know know going through a really hard time and then the first song which I'm going to play today survive was the first song I wrote on the

album and that felt like accepting the situation I was in that I had changed my life had changed but like looking forward to a new beginning I guess and that's really what this idea that I became obsessed with and at the same time coming back to Australia the bushfires in Australia are something like that I think affects everyone you know when you live in Melbourne even in the city when there's fires there's smoke in the city it feels and you feel a connection to country in Australia yeah, I saw this news story sitting at home. Everyone was watching the news because Melbourne was in a very long lockdown. So you watch the news every day and then there was this story

in amongst all the COVID stuff and Trump and all that kind of thing. There was this story about new plant life coming up out of the ashes of the bushfires. And, you know, maybe I was in a very emotional state but I that really just spoke to me and I was like that's me that's what I'm that's what's happening I just have to accept that I'm a little seed again and I have to grow a new tree so that was sort of what inspired the album that's beautiful and so you created your debut album from that and that the tree that inspired you. The album's maybe a bush.

The album is the bush. Well, you've got plenty of time. It's your debut. Yeah. And we are thrilled that you've come to tell us about it on Woman's Hour. Oh, thank you. I think you're going to play for us. So you're going to walk to, tell us what you're going to play, Survive.

I'm going to play a song called Survive, which is about that experience. Because not only, ladies and gentlemen, is she a very accomplished trumpet player, she's also pretty good on a piano as well and the voice we're about to hear. Audrey, congratulations. Best of luck with the album. Thank you so much. Thank you.

Audrey Pound, what a song, what a performance. That could be a Woman's Hour anthem, really could. And the album, her debut album, From the Fire, is out now. I can highly recommend it. Now, it's no surprise that the next generation have a lot of weight on their shoulders. From social media and saving the planet to simply being heard, there's certainly a lot to discuss. And that's exactly what Women of the world otherwise known as wow have done the organization which works towards gender equality has invited a group of young female activists

from across the globe to pen a letter on an issue that's important to them and their nation i'm joined now by two of these young women who've contributed to the anthology entitled girls to the world minono chumbu from malawi and olivia mandel from spain thank you very much for joining me both of you um minono i'm going to come to you first your letter is all about giving women and girls a platform why did you choose to write about this particular topic um thank you so much um women's hour um thank you so much for having me. So basically my letter was just to basically amplify my voice and the voices of my fellow activists and sisters around the world. I just find it very disheartening when we are expressing ourselves as girls and often very left unheard so um i knew for sure that um a lot of girls a lot of

activists a lot of um advocates will write letters to the world to the to the government officials maybe um community leaders and it's just really, really heart-entering, like I said, that oftentimes when we take our time to express our feelings, to express our ambitions, this is like literally our dreams. You know, most of the time it's call of action, our hopes. And we just want to have an to have an ear and you're very young i just you're you're only 21 aren't you i mean i know yeah yeah and you started as an activist at 16 i need to say this because you're very impressive so we need to share that with the world how young you are and

how long you've been doing it um what are some of the main issues facing women and girls in malawi what malawi what are you actually calling for? Oh, definitely I will not talk less about the gender inequalities that happen all over the world. And Malawi, yes, being a girl in Malawi is really tough sometimes. As an activist, I have also gone through that a lot. And also when I'm working with my fellow young girls and leaders in my community, we definitely just want to be given the platform to express ourselves. I mean, we have all the recommendations.

We have the ideas for change to the problems that we face. So I will never stress this. Yeah, for sure. Period poverty. And we have issues where there's so many inequalities and that will on a life um long life it's just it's affecting a lot of things including the education you know economic social growth a lot even health-wise as well I am a social productive of the right activist by profession so it affects a lot so it's it's just me calling out on my letter just me calling out on everyone to just hear because we definitely want you to just hear we are going to hear you we're going

to get you to read the letter in just a moment before we do I'm going to bring in uh equally as impressive Olivia uh Olivia in Spain um tell us Before we do, I'm going to bring in equally as impressive Olivia. Olivia in Spain, tell us your age, because I think we need to know how young and brilliant you are, but also why it was important for you to address your letter to the planet. Hi, thank you so much for having me. I'm 17. And I wrote this letter. This is the second letter. It's a series of letters that I wrote a couple of years ago. And it was during the pandemic when I saw nature coming back because we were all locked in our homes. And we could see the power of Mother Nature, right? How it grew back in the city. And at the same time, I also created a series of activist art

that are based on words and letters that reflect the power of our planet and everything that inhabits it. Shall we hear your letter? Will you read it to us, Olivia? Olivia, can you hear me? Yeah, let get let's hear your letter let's go for it. Dear earth I promise I will take better care of you stay strong and please don't leave us because without you we can't survive your letters are what keeps us alive. Without them we will be extinct. E energetic, A amazing, R respectful, T trusty, and H happy. Please forgive us for all our mistakes. Please

give us one more chance. We promise to do better, to be better hosts, because without you we will never have lived. I know that you don't belong to us. We and all living things belong to you. This is why I'm trying to do my best. I will do anything to save and heal you. But if everybody puts in a little effort, it would add up to a big difference. This is why I'm writing you this second letter, so that people understand how important you are for us

and how important it is to listen to you and know why and what is going on to correct our huge mistakes. Dear Earth, I hear your call and I'm ready to act now. Forgive us. Brilliant, Olivia. Well done. Well done. Minona, let's hear yours. Your letter.

My letter goes, dear world leaders, I hope my letter and together with the letters of voices of all adolescent girls and young women across the globe will matter. Malawi, where many girls' voices are often unheard. So often, as girls and young women, we suffer silently as times and times again, we speak and we're never heard. As girls, we are not requesting much. We just want to be counted. We just want better opportunities for the leadership of girls and women that are often unrepresented in the works of all UN systems and working with you even in our communities. We want to be in the rooms with you, institutionalizing and integrating initiatives and policies, recommendations that affect us while centering our voices. As growth in our diversity, we have the ideal solutions to the problems that we face.

We just want a bigger platform to share and to also recognize and organise the change that we want to see. We want our voices to be taken seriously. There is no real change without us in the process. We want a chance to build our futures with the recommendations that we recognise. Yours sincerely. Thank you. Olivia and Minono, keep up the good work keep going it's been such a delight to talk to you and to hear you read your poems at um thank you so much for speaking to us from spain and malawi now today the bbc is holding a just one thing day to pay homage to dr. Michael Mosley who died this summer.

Dr. Mosley changed so many lives through his cheerful and experimental approach and changed the way we think about health, nutrition and fitness. So we would love to hear from you. How has Michael Mosley's work influenced? How has he influenced

your approach to health and wellness? Do you have a favourite piece of advice from him that's made a significant impact on your life? Lots of you have been getting in touch. Russ says, our six-year-old son Ted has always listened with such interest to Michael Mosley. He loves combining the one things and it is a delight when he suggests we go walking backwards in the rain whilst eating turmeric slowly to go and do the gardening, doing random acts of kindness en route. Well, his Radio 4 podcast, Just One Thing, introduced people to one thing each episode that could change your life,

whether that was eating some flaxseed, munching on some beetroot, or going for a swim. One of those things was exercise snacking, basically exercising in short bursts. Here is Dr Michael Mosley talking about it, right here on Woman's Hour in 2012. I guess there is a sort of evolutionary argument that in the good old days, you know, way back on the savannah,

that's kind of how we did it. We lulled around a bit, walked quite a lot and occasionally had to make a dramatic burst for it when the sabre-toothed tiger, sorry, God, but when danger threatened, you had to really make a burst for it. And in a way, our lifestyle is very different. And certainly way back then, there were no gyms, there was no working out, there was no stuff like that. So it's kind of a sense going back to our roots. University. She also advises on the UK physical activity guidelines and Marie worked with Michael a lot over the years appearing on the podcast and the TV series Trust Me I'm a Doctor. Now Marie you

won't mind if I do squats through this interview you know. That would be absolutely perfect. So you worked with Michael a lot over the years what stood out to you about him what did you notice that Michael was really good at? Yeah, I did. I did an episode of Trust Me, I'm a Doctor and then several podcasts with them, meeting him back in about 2018. And I suppose for me as an academic and a researcher, what I liked about him is he was able to take complex, sometimes complex science and complex research and translate it in a really easy to understand manner, but without being condescending, without losing the science and losing the facts. And then on a personal note, he made me, who's somebody who wouldn't be used to being in the

media, he made you relax. He made it easy for you to talk and he sort of brought what he needed you to say out of you without necessarily putting you on edge. Yeah, yeah, I can concur with all of that. I worked with him on The One Show many years ago when we were both reporters on it and he just had a real generosity of spirit, very humble, very kind, not the kind of TV personality just, but nailed it,

sat down on that sofa. He just had that very, felt like your own personal doctor when he spoke, didn't he? Exactly. And he really, his knowledge was encyclopedic, but he was more keen to draw out your knowledge. So I think he didn't, some people, sometimes you hear people and they want to tell you their understanding of stuff. He was very much the opposite. He might pepper the conversation with things he'd learned along the way, but he was really keen to hear your perspective. So what actually is exercise snacking? Well, I like the concept and he particularly liked the term. I don't really like the term, but what it essentially, the reason, let me tell you why I don't like the term.

The term snacking is often associated with food and with very often some unhealthy habits of taking processed food over the course of the day. And so in the exercise world, the physical activity world, we often see that exercise or physical activity is pitted against food. In other words, we say, oh, if you eat this, you have to do exercise to work it off. And so I don't like that association because to me, they're two separate things. Food is one thing and we can eat healthily, but physical activity has so many more benefits way, way, way apart from burning calories. There's so many health benefits from being active. So, but once we move past that, the concept I really like, it's this notion that over the course of our normal day, we could do little short bouts of exercise or short bouts of physical activity, which add up over the course of the day.

So into something that will help our health and to improve our health and maybe give us the same amount of activity as we would have got if we did it in the more traditional way by taking an hour out and going for a run or heading to the gym. So it's this accumulation of short little bouts over the course of the day, opportunistic, picking every opportunity you can to move a little bit more. Yeah, it works for me. I am an exercise snacker. I'm sorry using the phrase, but you know, it's Michael's phrase, so we're using it today. Because everybody's busy or they always say we're busy. So take an hour out of your day. But we can all listen to Woman's Hour and maybe basically do squats, which I would like to tell you I'm doing right now. I'm not. I'm sitting very comfortably on my chair. Or do some arm dips, that kind of thing, right?

Exactly. And I think that's the thing. When you ask people why they don't exercise very often, time is the number one barrier. Now, as you rightly say, I don't know if it's time or if it's just what we say. We say we don't have time, and yet many of us spend many hours on our phone, hours watching our screen. So, of course, we do have time. It's how we choose to use it. But this is a way of kind of a compromise of saying, okay, you don't have time, but this is something you can do while you're doing something else.

Or it's something you can do in the very short breaks between doing something else at the end of a meeting during a meeting in between meetings most of us spend our lives this day looking at a screen at meetings so there are loads of little opportunities during those meetings and in between those where you could do something I cannot wait for my next meeting where I suggest we do 10 press-ups in the middle of it um Michael was quite an active exercise like wasn't he? Yeah, he was. Now, he had a real aversion to running, but he did it because he knew it made him healthy. But he did love this notion of doing things like squats,

press ups and other activities over the course of the day. And he loved walking. And that's, I suppose, what I find so tragic about his death is that he was doing something that he really did love. He loved walking. He was a massive advocate. And that's where he and I, I think, connected because most of my research over the years has been about walking. It's probably the answer to the public health issue of inactivity because majority of us can walk and it's something that we can fit into our everyday lives. And it's probably one of the best forms of exercise. Okay, you've said something huge there

and everyone, you know, some of us can manage a walk. So what's the science behind it? Yeah, I mean, walking for most of us is moderate intensity physical activity and the physical activity guidelines from the World Health Organization and all over the world tells us we should do, we should accumulate 150 minutes

of moderate intensity exercise over the course of a week. So that sounds like a lot, but when you break that down into short walks, you could quite easily add that up over the week. So it's really about sort of consciously using the opportunities that present themselves to walk. So can you walk as part of your transport to work? Can you take a walk on your break or walk at lunchtime, walk a bit further to get your sandwich, hop off the bus

a bit earlier, take the dog for a walk? Walking is kind of a universal activity that we can do and add up. And I know now we all, many count steps and, you know, 10,000 steps a day. And that to me, that's less important than the that as as every time you have an opportunity to walk walk walk yeah um marie lots of uh our lovely listeners have been getting in touch um to to share what they've they are doing how they've incorporated michael's advice into their life so if it's okay let's read some of these out michael eileen says michael has helped me in many ways one in particular in his just one thing uh when he says try wall squats i'm 71 and struggled to get off my low sofa now with stronger leg muscles i can spring up like a sprightly rabbit

thank you michael we miss you graham says i think of him and hugely miss miss the national treasure michael mosley every day when i do 30 press-ups and 30 squats first thing in the morning just like he did and recommended a much better alternative to caffeine to get the day off to a good start someone else says here I'm still drinking multiple green teas a day thanks to Michael Mosley my lovely mum and Zara and I regularly swap just one things we can try we're both very saddened by the loss of such a wonderful educator Michael Mosley's philosophy helped me to see, says Julian, that I can be in control of my life. I can choose how I live by changing small things.

Changes don't have to be massive to make a difference. Marie, thank you so much for joining me to speak to me this morning. That was Marie Murphy, who's Director of Physical Activity for Health Research Centre at the University of Edinburgh. I'm going to read out a couple more before the end of the programme because we've just been inundated. One thing I changed that has had a profound effect on me is being kind to myself, using self-compassion, quiet and down, the constant critical voice inside me. That's a very good bit of advice. And a last one from here from Sean about Audrey, who said, mesmerising soulful, a shame to say,

the first female jazz trumpeter I've added to my playlist, but Audrey's gone right to the top. Thank you for listening. Join me tomorrow for Weekend Woman's Hour. That's all for today's Woman's Hour. Join us again next time. For years, a witness's evidence has been locked away. I've seen the dark side.

He warned a chemical is coming. It's a silent killer. Forced into a witness protection programme. Do you think someone's going to try and kill us? From BBC Radio 4, an unsettling investigation into a chemical secret unravels. They don't have any record of him. What? Listen now to Bury the Last Witness on BBC Sounds. I'm Sarah Treleaven, and for over a year,

I've been working on one of the most complex stories I've ever covered. There was somebody out there who was faking pregnancies. I started, like, warning everybody. Every doula that I know. It was fake. No pregnancy. And the deeper I dig, the more questions I unearth. How long has she been doing this?

What does she have to gain from this? From CBC and the BBC World Service, The Con, Caitlin's Baby. It's a long story, settle in. Available now.