Woman's Hour - Southport attack, Sexism in Olympics coverage, Female auctioneer

Episode Date: July 30, 2024

A stabbing attack in the Southport area of Merseyside has, at the time of going to air, killed a number of children and critically injured others. Nuala McGovern is joined by BBC Home Affairs Correspondent Lauren Moss to give us the latest. She also hears from the Labour and Cooperative Party Police and Crime Commissioner for Merseyside, Emily Spurrell, and the Reverend Marie-Anne Kent on how the community are coming together to support each other. NB. The number of fatalities and injured was correct at the time of broadcast. For full updates head to the BBC News website. Irita Marriott says she is one of very few women in the UK to own an auction house. She’s the subject of a new documentary that follows her setting up her business and discovering personal stories along with antiques. She joins Nuala to talk about what it’s like to be a woman in the industry and why she loves it so much. Many of us will have been enjoying watching some coverage of the Olympics in Paris. But is that coverage occasionally sexist? The head of the Olympic Broadcasting Service has asked that camera operators avoid sexist filming of sporting events. This comes as a commentator for the channel Eurosport has been removed after making sexist remarks about Australia’s female swimmers. Dr Andrea Geurin, Professor of sport business, marketing and communication at Loughborough University, joins Nuala to discuss. In the last of our series on the hobbies that you’ve taken up again after years, our reporter Sarah Swadling speaks to a woman who rediscovered her passion for drama and joined the village panto. Have you seen a lot of orange around recently? The fake tan is back – but it’s apparently now better than before - more sophisticated. Celebrities are sporting the bronzed look, and sales of fake tan are up – but why has it returned? And is it actually good for you? Nuala is joined by Assistant Editor of Femail Jessica Taylor to discuss. Presenter: Nuala McGovern Producer: Lottie Garton

This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK. I'm Natalia Melman-Petrozzella, and from the BBC, this is Extreme Peak Danger. The most beautiful mountain in the world. If you die on the mountain, you stay on the mountain. This is the story of what happened when 11 climbers died on one of the world's deadliest mountains, K2. And of the risks we'll take to feel truly alive. If I tell all the details, you won't believe it anymore. Extreme. Peak danger.

Listen wherever you get your podcasts. BBC Sounds. Music, radio, podcasts. Hello, this is Nuala McGovern and you're listening to the Woman's Hour podcast. Hello and welcome to Woman's Hour. Well, it is a very difficult day today for Southport, following an attack that left two children dead and eight people, mainly children, critically injured. We're going to hear what is known so far

and also how the community is responding to those devastating events. And I'm sure this is something that many of you are thinking about. If you'd like to share your thoughts this morning, you can text the programme, the number is 84844. On social media, we're at BBC Women's Hour, or you can email us through our website. For a WhatsApp message or a voice note, that number is 03700 100 444. And we'll get to that in a moment.

Also today, why the head of broadcasting at the Olympics has asked camera crews not to be sexist in the way that they film female athletes. You'll also hear today why one woman has chosen a path that she says very few others have chosen, to set up and run an auction house. The antiques dealer will tell us how it's all working out. And we're asking whether this could be the summer of fake tan. Is golden the new orange? It's a product that at times has been derided,

although some kept the faith. For others, you know, it's becoming a new daily delight. So we're going to hear about the new fans of Fake Tans. That's also coming up. Anything you want to get in touch on with the programme, 84844 is the text number. And again, on social media, we're at BBC Women's Hour. But I want to begin this morning with those very shocking events

in the seaside town of Southport in Merseyside. The community there is trying to come to terms with the horror of knowing that two children were killed while six children and two adults remain in critical condition. And the terrible events unfolded at a Taylor Swift themed dance and yoga workshop and it was being held for children aged 6 to 11. The police described the attack by a 17-year-old male as ferocious. He has been arrested on suspicion of murder and attempted murder and remains in custody.

I want to begin by turning to Lauren Moss, who's our Home Affairs Correspondent, who's in Southport. Welcome, Lauren, to Woman's Hour. Tell us a little bit about what is happening where you are this morning. Morning. Well, I've been here since five o'clock this morning and slowly more and more people have begun their day, come out of their houses again into that state of disbelief and shock, really, about what happened here yesterday. And slowly over the course of the morning, more media and public figures have arrived as well the local MP Patrick Hurley is currently here and the Home Secretary Yvette Cooper is also going to be visiting

Southport at some point today and having meetings with community leaders and the police and I've seen you know the heart I'm standing on the at the end of Heart Street where it's a residential road there are there are houses along it People have been coming out of their houses, starting their days, and escorted by the police in and out of the police cordon. And the police have been coming and going all morning as well. It's very much still an active crime scene. Like you said, a 17-year-old boy is under arrest still this morning,

but investigations are still continuing here. And there is a very strong police presence, a very strong media presence and the people that live here and not just from here actually i've spoken to people from further afield in liverpool who have been coming to to lay flowers and tributes teddy bears dolls and candles um to pay tribute to to some of those affected and just to tell families really that they're they're thinking of them it's a very emotional emotional scene well i know the police investigation is ongoing lauren i want to bring a little of emily spurrell she's the labour and cooperative party police and

crime commissioner for merseyside she was speaking this morning i mean my blood ran cold when i heard the news that a child had lost their life i think it's always awful when we hear about these incidents particularly when it's children particularly in the way that it's happened they were doing exactly what they should have been doing they were having a dance party they were dancing around to taylor swift in the summer holidays and for then this to happen and for the day to end in just such tragedy it is hard it is hard to find the words to articulate just how awful this is and you know as you say those of us with with kids it it does make you hug them a bit tighter i think because we just nobody expects anything like this to happen and my

heart goes out to the families and the friends and the whole community i want to pay huge tribute to the emergency services they responded incredibly quickly they walked into what was a very traumatic scene, trying to deliver that first aid, trying to then obviously track down the individual who's now in custody. In terms of the investigation, it's many days. The police are obviously looking to try and identify what motivated this individual to commit this act. And obviously we're hopeful that we'll get some clarity on that

in the next days and weeks and we'll reflect on what that means. There is obviously dedicated support going in for the families. We've got family liaison officers from Merseyside Police who will be providing that dedicated support to them. We also have our victim care Merseyside service. We also have our dedicated victim care officers so if anybody who's been affected wants to have a conversation with our team they're available as well to chat to confidentially, because we recognise that obviously this is quite a difficult day for a lot of people. That was Emily Spurrell speaking there. And let me turn back to our Home Affairs correspondent, Lauren Moss. Of course, there was a number of witnesses as well. We have heard and seen some of their testimony. But what are the police asking of the public now?

The police gave, the chief constable gave a press conference last night to update on the investigation. And they were very quick yesterday to ask people to stay away from the scene. They were saying that they do believe there was no greater, wider risk to the public after what had happened here yesterday. But we will be getting further updates from them later this morning. They've said that the motive for what happened here is unclear. They aren't treating it as terror-related.

And the police will be providing further updates and the investigation as the day continues. I'd like to tell you a little bit about some of the tributes and the investigation as the day continues. I'd like to tell you a little bit about some of the tributes and the cards that have been left here. Because I felt very moved looking at them early this morning. There's been flowers and teddies and dolls that have been left. One card to the families reads, We can't even comprehend the emotions and the heartbreak

that you must be going through right now. And someone else has left a handwritten poem entitled Hope. And I spoke to the gentleman's wife. He wrote that last night. He wanted to write a poem. He came down. He read it at a small vigil that neighbours held at the corner of Hart Street and read that poem out at a candlelit that that neighbors held at the corner of Hart Street and read that poem out

at a candlelit vigil late yesterday evening and I understand there'll be another vigil taking place at some point today somewhere in Southport and tributes also being paid Southport FC have cancelled the local football club have cancelled matches out of respect some of their pre-season friendlies and we'll find out more about that vigil later because i think if people don't know southport and i and you know many of our colleagues have sort of lived and worked up here for many years you know it's a it's a seaside town on the on the you know the northwest coast of merseyside golden sandy beaches children's theme small children's theme park area it's a place where people come on holiday it's a place where people live schools you know homes it's it's extremely

shocking and it's still very quiet right now as well and i think that's probably what it would have been like this time yesterday before the terrible screams that were heard the eyewitnesses reported hearing the worst thing they'd ever seen and the worst thing they'd ever heard almost 24 hours ago. And I think that feeling of disbelief and that feeling of incomprehension is going to be here for some considerable time. I think also, Lauren, just as you were describing where you are, the area that has been cordoned off,

that's with the centre where these horrendous attacks took place, but that there are houses beside it, that it's a residential area, as well as a town that people would go on to visit the seaside, for example. Yeah, you're absolutely right. So I'm standing outside several houses right now. It's houses all around me, in fact. There's a couple of hair salons nearby, there's a cafe, there's the local pub, the Blue and Anchor, just on the corner,

which is now covered outside with media vans and satellite dishes and press and members of the public coming down with flowers. It's quite, for the people who live here, not only must the shock be huge and the worry for their community and these young people people these children who have been attacked and caught up in this this terrible thing but also just quite surreal seeing what is happening and unfolding on their doorstep you know someone described it as like something from a horror film or a Netflix documentary is it's a quiet area and we hear that a lot don't we you

know lots of people say when when terrible things happen it's a very quiet area. And we hear that a lot, don't we? You know, lots of people say when terrible things happen, it's a very quiet area, things like that don't happen around here. But it really doesn't. You know, I know the Southport area quite well, and it really is tremendously shocking. And people are still coming to terms with that, if that's something you can even come to terms with. Yeah, I think the fact, of course, that so many children are involved in this as well

is something that has given people such pause and also such horror about it. There has been inevitably, as I suppose we live in a social media age, lots of speculation, much of it falls online. Are the police trying to direct people when it comes to those issues? I think the advice from the police and the police and crime commissioner, as you heard from Emily Spurrell, played a clip of her just before, is urging people not to speculate at this time. I think the feelings are very, quite hot in the area,

for want of a better word, and people want answers. They have lots of questions not just about sort of the what happened but the why most importantly and and these poor young children at the center of it and the feeling from the authorities is that speculation doesn't doesn't help fuel things at the moment and the investigation needs to continue um but undoubtedly people will have those questions and continue to ask them I think. Yes do we know anything more about the victims has any information officially been released? About the the man in custody? No about the victims no forgive me about the victims. The victims

themselves? Yes. We know that two of them are children and they suffered fatal injuries yesterday lunchtime in the attack nine other children were taken to hospital six of those in a critical condition and they're being treated the hospitals across the northwest like namely alder hay children's hospital one of the leading children's hospitals in the country in liverpool manchester they were transferred across to manchester children's hospital as well and two adults who the police told us yesterday were believed to be trying to protect the children in the attack yesterday lunchtime also suffered critical injuries. So a lot of people still being treated in hospital. And there's been praise for the emergency service workers and those hospital staff overnight as well from the king and the queen and the prince and princess of wales and and the prime minister because you know the air ambulance was landing

all day here yesterday or sort of all early afternoon i should say um and people were being taken off to various hospitals it's been a huge and a major incident declared in the northwest at different hospitals to to try and manage and look after and provide the care these young people and these two adults need. Lauren Moss, thank you so much for giving us some of your time this morning. Our Home Affairs correspondent speaking to us from Southport, right at where those terrible attacks took place. I want to turn now to the Reverend Marianne Kent, who's a vicar of St Philip and St Paul with Wesley Church in Southport as well.

Thank you for taking some time in your morning to speak to us here on Woman's Hour. I understand that you've opened up your church to the local community and I'm wondering what you're hearing and seeing today. Yes, hi. I'm the Methodist Minister here at St Philip and St Paul with Wesley. We've opened up the church and will be open all day today

and tomorrow will be open. But we're here in the long term as well. I think people here have woken up, some people feeling very numb, feeling anxious, shocked, horrified, a whole range of emotions. And the church is just a space to come and be, to have a cup of tea if you want to have a conversation with somebody or to sit in silence. It's a place for people of all faiths and none and just a place for the community today as we come together and try and process the horrors

of what happened yesterday in the community. You are also obviously a person of the local community. I'm wondering how you're feeling today. Yeah, absolutely. I live just around the corner. I'm wondering how you're feeling today. Yeah, absolutely. I live just around the corner. I've got children. I've got an 18-year-old, you know. So the whole incident,

as the information's coming out, it's just horrifying. You can't believe that it's a residential area. You know, it's just unbelievable. And I residential area you know it's just unbelievable and I think you know we're all shaken given you know and everybody in the community is trying to do what they can those small acts of kindness to one another taking that time out to look after an able give our children an extra hug spend time with them because you know you say, we never expect it to happen in a airport. How did you speak to this, about this to your children,

if you don't mind me asking? I think, you know, I think we have a generation, I've got two older, you know, two young people, you know, an 18-year-old, you know, obviously the young man arrested was only 17 uh there's a whole generation of young people who are struggling at the moment obviously we don't want to speculate about what this man was young man was going through but there's a whole generation post-covid that have you know got lots of things to work through uh and you know knife

crime and uh you know there are lots of issues that our young people are facing and and as a community we need to to support them and and enable them to be the best version of themselves that they can be in quite difficult situations and indeed we don't know anything related to the motive at the moment absolutely but. But what do the community need today, do you think? Well, I think the community has come together and will come together and across the church and other community groups will be here for the long term. You know, this will take a long time to process

and we're here for the long term. But I think it's about, you know, not speculating on what's going on at the moment. Let the police do their jobs and let's just support one another. Because there's lots of vulnerable people out there who'll be very, very afraid today of what's happened here in Southport,

as you say, a sleepy seaside town. So we just need to watch out for one another in the days ahead, particularly those who are by themselves, who don't have anybody to talk to about this and the church and other community groups I know are places they can go and just talk, have a cup of coffee

and be with other people at a time like this. Reverend Marianne Kent-Vicker of St Philip and St Paul Wesley Church in Southport and as we were hearing from Lauren previously there will be a vigil tonight as well in Southport for people to go and pay their respects. And if you've been affected by the issues we've been discussing, there is a range of organisations and websites that can offer advice and support.

They're listed on the BBC's Action Line website, bbc.co.uk forward slash Action Line. And indeed, if you want to share your thoughts, 84844 on Woman's Hour if you'd like to get in touch. Now, my next guest has set up an auction house. She says she is one of the few women in the UK to own one. After working as an antiques dealer for eight years, Irita Marriott has more recently tried her hand at auctioneering. She's starring in her own TV show, it's called The Derbyshire Auction House. It's available on Discovery Plus and Reelie. Irita joins me now on Women's Hour. Welcome. Hello, thank you for having me. My understanding is you came to antiques in

your late 20s that then has led to this programme that you're now presenting, showing what it's like to start, set up and own an auction house. What piqued your interest? What brought you there? Honestly, it's been a journey. When I first started 12 years ago in trade, I didn't know what antiques were. I have no education or a degree or anything along the lines of that. So to be in the shoes that I am in now kind of feels like pinch me moment every single day. And I'm so grateful that life has taken me where it has. And yeah, I've owned an auction house since last September. And one thing after another, our first sale was in January. And my second sale, second time ever on Rostrum on front of people. I was faced with the cameras filming the Derbyshire Auction House.

It was crazy. So let's talk a little bit about your path into it. Why antiques? Why did you go that path? It just kind of happened. I was made redundant from the job that i had and one thing after another led to me having a bunch of antiques at home on the slate i'm sorry you just broke you broke up from forgive me you broke up that that was it

you broke up for the job for life you broke up for one moment there forgive me you had a load of antiques at home and you decided to try and sell them? Yes. Yeah, yeah, as simple as that. And I knew within days that that was going to be my career because it is so fascinating. Every single piece has a story and every single person selling the items has a story. And it's just a joy. So why do you think so few women own auction houses in the UK? I was surprised by that. Yeah, it's always, I think, has been seen as a male-dominated industry. It's not an easy job, tell you that.

What's difficult about it everything that it's like any other business there will always be difficult sides to it um i don't know why but that industry does seem to always have been led by males and i think we need more females and when I first started in trade I was 28 and I was the youngest seller the youngest buyer in the buildings every single time hands down and over the years I have seen quite an influx particularly coming from London and south of England of younger people dealing in vintage and retro items and it it's really, really nice to see. Were you welcomed into the industry? I weren't by some and I weren't by others.

But you do now have the auction house and you say since September. So, OK, we're almost almost getting to the one year point. But it's also been televised. You also had an unorthodox, slightly unorthodox entry into the world of television. Can you tell us about that? Well, as you know,

you know, most of the people who are on TV on all these anti-programmes, they have been headhunted. And I was just a small time dealer, you know, Latvian born, no education, no, you know, no posh shop or anything like that and so I decided that I wanted to be on Antiques Road Trip. I got hold of their executive producer's phone number and I just rang him and I said, my name is Irita Marriott and what do I do to get this job? It was as simple as that. And one thing

after another, six months after that phone call, I had the job. There's going to be so many people looking for that number now and seeing can they replicate your success. But do you think, because this is Women's Hour, as a female auctioneer, for example, do you bring something different to the role than men? Or is it, I don't know, a gender equal role? I think it's quite an equal role. However, I'm very, very proud to be able to do this for the females that might think that they can't because it's so male dominated and also to have the show what you see on the derbyshire auction house is exactly what the job is it is so full of

emotions so full of psychology if you like because every single person that we have filmed with and that comes through the door has their own story and everybody needs a slightly different approach and it is honestly the satisfaction of giving someone that that that something that they need knowing that their items are going to a new home and going to be loved and treasured again, is beyond the words. It is incredibly satisfying, incredibly satisfying. So what skills do you think you need to be a great auctioneer? Because I'm thinking you're going, you mentioned the word journey already, I might mention the word roller coaster,

with these people that you're trying to get the best price, quite frankly, for some items that maybe they've loved but are ready to part with. I actually think as an auctioneer, you need different skills, completely different skills. You need to be more stern, if you like, and really go get me. That you need as a person to actually deal with the people. They're two completely different roles. And when you put the two together, if you can find that balance, I think people really appreciate it.

Because I've had people before I've gotten on Rostrum doubt me. And then I get up there because they think I'm too soft. You know, I get involved in emotions and I will cry with them if I feel like crying with them. But then I get on Rostrum and I am there to do a job. To get that highest bid. And that is to make money for them. Right. Let us talk about some of the stuff that has gone through your hands. There is a spoon I was reading about. Talk us through that one.

Yeah, we had that was actually on the first episode that aired on really at 9 p.m. a week ago on Monday. And it was a spoon that they had inherited so this is a family a family inherited a spoon yes yeah it was part of the um like a house full of things that they had inherited and it had been in understairs cupboard for years and in fact they had guarded it out because they weren't far off chucking it because they were like, well, what is this? We don't really need this. We don't understand it. It's just a piece of wood. And I saw it and I thought, oh, wait a minute, this is much better than just a piece of wood. And it sold for a whopping £3,300. Wow. I can't believe they were about to throw it out. They're probably looking to see

was there a set of spoons at that point and whether there might be another few that are under the stairs. Can you, but what is that, that you kind of predict that's going to be something very successful? It's a gut feeling. Is it?

Oh, 100%. It's's i get this excitement in me and i to say that i look at things that i've never seen before every single day because every day in this business is school day even though i've never seen it before, when I look at something, I can see quality in it. And once you got that knack of having that gut feeling, knowing that something is better than someone else thinks, oh my, the world's your oyster. We had another story on the show that will that will be uh in the later episodes where we went in someone's house for cameras and porcelain and glass and what they hadn't told us is that they had photography on their walls in the house and the moment I stepped in that house I knew they were good but the owner said well if I got 80 pounds each you know I will I would be very happy

with them so I thought well absolutely fine we will run with that we will go 50 to 80 80 to 100 you know low estimates oh my you need to watch that episode oh come on give me a clue let me give you a clue there were 19 photos all together and the top selling one went for 12 000 pounds it's great fun i have to say it must be great fun it is incredible and honestly to be up on rostrum in charge you know, being able to work with the two phone bidders that we had for these lots. And at the same time, seeing the vendor in front of you in complete meltdown in tears and to hold it together. That was a moment and a half. Brilliant stuff. I want to just mention one other thing.

I can hear your passion and I understand you, even childbirth couldn't really keep you away from the antiques fairs for too long. On my due date. Yeah. And I was back there 10 days later. 10 days later. 10 days. Yeah. I never stopped. I have two boys and I never stopped with either one of them. And I worked through and they came with me everywhere. And I think it has given them this incredible sense of achievement with things when they do things. Do you know what I mean? They are happy to work and they're happy to work hard because they've seen me do it. They've been by my side.

Irita Marriott has her own TV show and her own auction house. The Derbyshire Auction House is available on Reelie and Discovery+. Thanks for spending some of your morning with us as well on Woman's Hour. Thank you for having me. 84844 if you would like to get in touch. Now, let us turn to Paris. Some of us have been glued to the Olympics coverage over the past few days. But could that coverage occasionally be sexist?

Well, one commentator for the channel Eurosport has been removed after making sexist remarks about Australia's female swimmers. As the team were heading to the podium to collect their gold medal, Bob Ballard could be heard saying, and I quote, well, the women just finishing up. You know what women are like,

hanging around, doing their makeup, unquote. Now, in a statement on X, formerly known as Twitter, he said, it was never my intention to upset or belittle anyone. And if I did, I apologise. I'm a massive advocate of women's sport. Alongside this, camera operators for the official Olympics Broadcasting Services, or OBS, have been told by the head of the organisation to film male and female athletes in the same way in order to avoid any stereotypes or sexism.

Now, we know here on Women's Hour that women's sport has come on in leaps and bounds in the past few years. But can the same be said of its coverage? Well, I'm joined now by Dr. Andrea Guerin, Professor of Sports Business, Marketing and Communications at Loughborough University, London. Welcome. Thank you. What were your thoughts when you heard about the OBS being told, telling the camera people, should I say explicitly, to film male and female athletes in the same way? I wasn't surprised.

I think there's been this history of male and female athletes being portrayed very differently. There's a lot of research that's actually looked at it to point out the differences in camera angles. And historically, camera angles have tended to focus more on close ups of women, close ups of certain body parts, and showing them more in kind of passive poses rather than athletic action, whereas for the men, it's very different. How do you understand that? I think, you know, looking at the statement from OBS, it was talked about as being unconscious

bias. And I think that the media and camera people have kind of gotten away with doing this for a long time. And, you know, without proper training, if they're not receiving training, if they're not sort of reminded that they need to treat men and women equally in the way that they're covered, I think that those biases do come into play. And, you know, oftentimes we might see that someone is just repeating the types of angles that they grew up watching when they watch sport on TV. And any particular sports that stand out for you? Yeah, I definitely think there are some sports that this happens more often in.

During the Olympics, we definitely see it with beach volleyball. I feel like every Olympic cycle that tends to come up and, you know, that kind of focus on the but the buttocks and and and the women's chests, I think, in gymnastics, I think diving. So these sports where the uniforms that they should be zoomed in on or, you know, focusing on specific body parts, whereas say maybe basketball or football, they're not doing that. And I suppose traditionally camera operators would have been men. Yes. Which may play into it. Let's talk also about the comments made by Bob Ballard, which I read out. In a statement, Eurosports said, and I quote, he made an inappropriate comment.

To that end, he has been removed from our commentary roster with immediate effect. Do you think it's the right decision? I think it is. I think it really sends a message. I think commentators have gotten away with these types of comments for too long. And so if there's actually going to be change, then we need to see things like this happen. Just it can't be tolerated. And would you say the reaction to it has been mainly positive?

Is it possible to tell? It's really interesting. I've been reading as much as I can about it. And it seems that I think media coverage of it has been more positive in the sense that it's supportive of the athletes and it's supportive of the women who he, you know, made those comments about putting on makeup. But I think if you look at some of the social media commentary, there's a lot of sexism on display there where people are actually defending him and saying that what he said wasn't that bad or that, you know, he shouldn't have been fired. And so I think we're seeing kind of two different narratives at play.

Let's talk about the athletes as well that are in this. Do you think female athletes have been aware of how they are portrayed on screen? Oh, yes, I definitely think so. I've spoken with athletes who are, you know, training for the Olympic Games and competing, and they're very aware of how they're portrayed. They're also very aware of how they portray themselves on their own social media. And I think some of the sort of detrimental effects of the way that female athletes are portrayed is that it can impact their mental health. If images go viral, there was an example of an Austrian climber a few years ago during the World Championships who there were these images of her of her buttocks just on display, slow motion sort of went viral.

People were posting it. And, you know, she said it really affected her and she had to deactivate her social media. So it can affect their mental state, but also their athletic performance. If they're worried about not wanting to have certain body parts on display, that might impact the way that they're actually performing. And I suppose also came up in a previous story we were discussing, but we do live in a social media age. It's almost impossible to get away from it. Is it different, do you think, for digital or broadcast than it is for print journalism, for example? I don't, I think there are differences and I think both have their own issues. You know, we can look at things like quantity of coverage. And there's a lot that show during the Olympic Games, male and female athletes receive roughly about the

same amount of coverage in print journalism. But then when you look at the actual quality or the qualitative aspects of the coverage, the way that women are described, the aspects of their lives that are focused on tend to sometimes still portray those those stereotypes. So for examples? Yeah, I think you look at a lot of women, and an article might talk about, start off with the fact that she's a mother, or she's a wife, or these sort of traditional feminine roles that we're used to, rather than really starting off focusing on her accomplishments, what has she done in sport, you know, the hard work, the dedication, all of those things. So that would be one example.

A couple of messages coming in, which are interesting. One says, famous women in sport are always called by their first names, men by their surnames, which confers more respect to the men. Yes. That sometimes we sometimes see that in politics as well. Yes. Here's another one that I was thinking of actually while reading about you, that the cameras do the same with music and football,

always singling out the pretty women. You sometimes see that, right? Like it's a sports event, but that it goes to a certain young woman. Yeah, in the audience. So, I mean, we heard what the OBS is doing, and that's obviously just the Olympics. I mean, does there need to be broader education? You know, I don't know, other tournaments, other sporting events? I definitely think there does need to be, you know, the IOC puts out a nine-page document that talks about how to portray athletes with gender equity in mind.

And it focuses on all forms of coverage. But I think that other organizations, so international federations, when they're holding a world championship, for example, need to do that. the way down to the grassroots level, because the people who are maybe filming more amateur sport now are probably have aspirations to, you know, work their way up and someday be filming the Olympics. So it's these behaviors and, and mindsets need to be ingrained early in the careers. Are you able to enjoy the Olympics, just watch it? Or do you have like this lens on that you're kind of picking it apart? Oh, my gosh. Well, a lot of my research has focused on media coverage of the Olympic Games. So I feel like it's a little bit of both. I'm certainly aware of what I'm seeing. And I know different patterns of coverage. But I also really enjoy it. And I've enjoyed watching a lot of it so far in Paris. Lots more to come. Dr. Andrea Guerin, Professor of Sports Business, Marketing and Communications at Loughborough University, London. Thank you so much.

Thank you. Now, I need your help. Listener Week is coming up. It's the week when we hand the reins of the program over to you. Last year, you may remember, we heard about the work of two women with a bit of a perhaps quite different occupation. I'll give you a hint. They were working across roofs in Devon. Hello, I'm Daisy and I'm a Thatcher in Devon. And I'm her wife Anna and I'm a Thatcher in Devon.

An old family friend, he just texted me one morning and said, Hey Bird, do you want to come and have a go on the roof? And I thought, why not? And the rest is is history we were very lucky because he let us on the roof and have a go at thatching straight away whether as I think a lot of people would be laboring for a good couple of years or so before so we were very lucky the amount of bugs and butterflies and birds we get to see from up here is yeah lovely i'm not a massive fan of it when it's raining if i'm honest but yeah when it's sunny it's absolutely beautiful

get the reed pop the reed on dress it back and simply grab a hazel spar mallet it in always handy to put the spars going uphill they go downhill the water can follow it in a lot of the older generation males i just don't think they understand it when they see us up here you can see their brain ticking and they just they don't really understand but then it can yeah it can go the other way can't it and a lot of single females would probably rather have us on the roof for whatever reason so yeah it's a bit of both really but we do definitely get a lot of stick I think from a lot of other male thatches a lot of the buildings down here are listed now so if it's

thatch on you've got to put thatch on. So there's always going to be work in the thatch industry, always. And it will be nice for us to eventually get a young woman on board as well. And yeah, teach them and then go off on their own eventually. So a young woman. Sounds like there's a job there it was just a fascinating insight into the work of the Thatchers Anna and Daisy maybe there's something you're doing

and you think our listeners should hear it well get in touch in the usual ways for Listener Week 84844 is our text number on social media

it's at BBC Women's Hour or you can email us through our website now we're talking about a different job just a few minutes ago about auctioneering. And here's a message. I don't have a name, but here we go.

Listening to Woman's Hour now and I am so jealous. All I ever wanted to be was an auctioneer. I worked for an estate agent in my 20s in the hope of getting into their auction house. The one that I spent many hours in with my mother. But my goodness, what a male-dominated environment. So there was just no way in. I'm about to be 70 and I still hanker after that career. Maybe it's still possible.

I mean, you heard what it's like. Maybe there's a way in. Think inspirationally. Well, if it's that job or any other job that you'd like to highlight, Listener Week is the way to do it. 84844. Well, if it's that job or any other job that you'd like to highlight, Listener Week is the way to do it. 84844. Right, some more.

This is on the Olympics and sexism. Do we really want to see more pictures of men's backsides and chests? Please spare us. 84844 if you want to get in touch. Right. Talking about things we did or we didn't do

or things we've revived, we've been hearing that about hobbies. Maybe something you practised at school when you were younger, but then life took over and you left it behind. Our reporter, Sarah Swadling, has been hearing from women who started things like hockey and drumming.

But now it's the turn of Sarah, who rediscovered her love of drama in the form of the local village panto. I love being on stage, right from sort of when I was at primary school and you were an angel. And then out of school with groups of friends, we used to put on plays, raise money for Oxfam and charities. I got involved through the scouts and guides doing gang shows. A branch off from that, we ended up going on a rock and roll tour, touring all the international scout camps. We did that for a couple of summers.

Then I went to university and I got involved with a band there and we did cover versions. Then, you know, you sort of grow up and you get a job. I became a teacher. And at that point, it sort of reversed. So I wasn't on stage. I was putting on plays with the children. And so I stopped sort of being performing then. And then I met my husband, Seth, and moved to Wales and had two children.

And of course, that just alters everything. You're still you. You're still you, but you develop in different ways and your priorities are different. And one of the things that sometimes you notice a little bit too late is that oh where where have I gone so tell me how the the inner performer in you got unleashed again well it wasn't of my doing it was my daughter who little performer from being little and decided that she would like to have a go at pantomime. And there's a very good village of pantomime, a company called The Players, who put on pantomime every year. And so I took her up to auditions. Just before Amelie, it was her turn, she turned to me and went, you're auditioning as well, aren't you? So I sort of just went, yeah, yeah. Thinking, well, I've got to encourage her. She's not going to get up and do it maybe otherwise so she got up and

she sang and she performed and I sat there with my mouth open she was amazing and as she turned round you know to look at me to come back and sit down. She sort of went, your turn now. And I thought, well, how can I not after that? You know, at least I'll just, you know, I'll have, I was put on the spot a little bit, I suppose, but then part of me was inspired by her. And so I got up and did it. And I, yeah, I got up and did it on a sign. And I formed. And you were able to put down what sort of part you might be interested in. So I went through the script and I'd already put down, you know,

the least amount of part that I could find. And anyway, Amelie, she got, it was Dick Whittington. So she got the part of Tomcat. She went straight off into sort of a lead role, which is great. And I was given a little role, which I thought, you know what? I'll do that. And on the first rehearsal, the person that was going to be performing, Dick Whittington, had pulled out.

So they asked me to read the part. So I did. Halfway through when we had a break, I they asked me to read the part. So I did. Halfway through, when we had a break, I just sort of said, oh, do you know, I really... I said it out loud as well, perhaps looking back, I should have just thought it to myself. Do you know, I really enjoyed doing that. And the director basically said, well, do you want to do it?

Because there's nobody else to do it. They've left. We haven't got anybody else. So I went, and I just found myself saying yes and so I found myself not living it through Amelie sort of my performing I experienced it with her and it was awesome it was incredible I found all sorts of things through it and what were those things that you found through it to be doing it for yourself again? Yes, it was very much, it was that. I mean, and it wasn't just the sort of the privilege

of being on stage with my daughter and performing. It was more than that. It was the other side of things, the people that I met. So yeah, friendships, confidence, relationship with my daughter. and that it was the other side of things the people that I met um so yeah friendships confidence relationship with my daughter and it's blossomed from there really I mean it's still you know I still hard work and but that has given me a real sort of buzz of self-confidence and although no I'm not the Sarah that I used to be on stage. I'm the Sarah that I am now. It's been a real eye-opener. It's been really good.

Have there been further roles since Dick Whittington? Yes, the next year I thought, right, OK, so I got that one kind of by default. Would I like to do this again? And I found myself thinking, do you know what? I do. I do want to go and I do want to try and get the lead part so I thought well go on then see if you can so I went and they did Robin Hood and yeah I was Robin Hood so I was twice I've been probably the oldest principal boy

in many a year so I was a 51 year old Dick Whittington and a 52 year old Robin Hood. But there we are. I did it. It's really easy to get out of practice with performing and being visible, I think, isn't it? Definitely. Yeah, because it is quite exposing. It's exposing and it's not everybody's cup of tea. But I don't think it has to to be that it has to be what it was that used to sort of yeah float your boat and they say i hate this expression but back in the day is what it could be it could be anything you know as you know from sports or photography or um oh there's hundreds of things that it could be um but it is hard to sort of yeah reignite it and i think sometimes you get into a position where you just avoid avoid it because you just don't think it can possibly be possible you know where it turns out it can it might not be how you expect it to be but it can then give you things

that you yeah you didn't actually realize you needed, but you did. Sarah, a.k.a. Dick Whittington, or Robin Hood, speaking to our reporter, Sarah Swadling, there. And thank you to all of you who've got in touch with the things that you have taken up again. It's been great to hear about your revived talents. On the auctioneering, I've just sold my dairy herd. The auctioneer, for the most of it, was a lady, and she did a very good job.

Glad to hear it. 8-4-8-4-4. Now, have you noticed a lot of your friends heard. The auctioneer for most of it was a lady and she did a very good job. Glad to hear it. 84844. Now, have you noticed a lot of your friends looking a bit more bronzed recently? That's despite not having left what was a dreary grey of a British summer before this week. Now, apparently

the fake tan is back. It's been used by celebrities like Blake Lively, Melania Trump, even supermarket figures in the UK. They're reporting sales of fake tan are up 16 percent. That's just last month. And some that shunned the fake tan, they're taking a second look. Some of them getting ready to glow, apparently.

The assistant editor of the Daily Mail's Female Online is Jessica Taylor. Welcome, Jessica. Hi, thanks for having me. You're on my screen. I'm trying to figure out, do you have a little bit of fake tan on or not? I couldn't possibly confirm. I'm a woman that hasn't really taken to it. Mind you, all around me did. But you think it's back. Why? We basically think that, you know, I think the increase in celebrities coming out, we've definitely seen more of it recently. We're seeing more celebs coming out, quite glamorous events with an extra bronze glow. And I think you mentioned Blake Lively.

She's probably, you know, if Blake Lively does something, it's becoming cool again. I think that's generally a typical trend. But she was out at the Deadpool and Wolverine afterparty and premiere last week, and she looked so beautifully bronzed. And I think for us, that was one of the defining images that showed that it really is back. And as you say, sales are up in in uk supermarkets which i i think is probably down to the fact that we have as you say until this week had a pretty dreary summer i mean i'm not making my point that well this sun is beating down on us today but um but yeah we think that

generally you know it's celebrities are showing it off the bronze look again but let's talk about this because i mean i'm from ireland i'm not sure the fake tan ever went out of fashion there if i'm completely honest and i think lots of my listeners in lots of parts um of the country will you know will think the same that you know they've never been too far away from at a an event let's say a wedding or whatever a big birthday party or something that you can kind of smell it right you can smell the fake tan there's kind of a wet biscuit or a cornflake wet cornflake is the smell that I would relate to it is that gone I think I think the products are becoming they're evolving they're much more sophisticated than they used to be.

I was exactly the same when I was at university and I'd fake tan the night before, a big night out, and I'd wake up in the morning, the whole room, my whole university halls would smell of biscuits, yeah. But I think, you know, these days, I think the products have really, really come a long way. And, you know, you're not just applying straight layers of tan anymore. There are, you know, kind of drops that you can put in your moisturizer, which means you can build up a more gradual sort of glow.

In general, I think it's a product that's come a really long way. And I think that's probably one of the reasons that sales are on the rise because there's so much more choice now than there ever used to be. And I also think that the colours that, you know, the different shades of tan that you are able to find are, you know, much more realistic. Because a darker tan was what was in fashion and never went out of fashion for some. What is it? Is it a lighter glow now we're talking about? I think so. And I think it's just, you know, products have people when people skin tans naturally, you know, not everybody would look the same with a tan in terms of how perhaps how much time they've spent in the sun, but also everybody's pigmentation is different. So I think that generally it's just there's more variety in terms of the the sort of look that you can achieve um whereas i think before

it was just a sort of blanket um quite um i mean i'm just thinking back to my younger days of just having quite a i suppose an orange hue around you know around me and my friends is the only way i could really describe do you think, perhaps the message has got through on tanning, melanoma, skin cancers, and that people are less likely to perhaps bask in the sun in the way that they used to? Definitely, yes. I think it's almost impossible now to ignore the fact that we are very well aware that increased exposure

to high UV and intense UV rays will increase your risk of skin cancer. I think it's very, very well known now. And ultimately, people want to look after themselves. I think people are much more careful if they are tanning in the sun. They're much more careful with things like SPF now, not just, you know, your SPF rating, but you want an SPF that has four or five stars for that strong UV protection. So I think that's another reason that people are opting for fake tan over sitting in the sun

and exposing themselves for a long period of time. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, I'm getting flashbacks of being a bridesmaid one time and, yeah, being asked to put on the fake tan to kind of, I suppose, fall in line with the others. I resisted. I did resist on that particular point,

but it's just because if anybody knows me, I'm so pale, a tan on me does look a little bit strange. However, so we think everybody's getting aware of skin cancer.

They're using the fake tan. But sunbeds, I i was reading there are a number of people that are increasing their use and that is uv rays that is uh something that also can be dangerous absolutely and it's you know it's not just uv rays it's really intense exposure to uv rays as well so um a study from melanoma focus a few months back said that just over a quarter of UK adults admitted to using sunbeds but I think what was quite alarming about that is that when you look specifically at 18 to 25 year olds that that increased to more than 40 percent and as we were just saying we all know that that you know uv increased exposure

to uv rays can increase your risk of skin cancer and i think the thing that was quite concerning about that particular study was was that more than half of the people using sunbeds were very well aware of the risks but they were using them anyway which I think is kind of mind-boggling really. But I suppose people do lots of risky things right knowing the risks but decide to go ahead with them. Here's another one that I hadn't known about nasal sprays where does that intersect with fake tans? Yeah this was news to me as well when I started researching it. So nasal sprays are becoming more of a thing now, although they're not actually certified in the UK. So how they work is they're basically a synthetic hormone that you inhale and it's called melanotan. I hope I've said that correctly. but it um it basically stimulates the production of melanin in in your body which is obviously what

changes the pigmentation of your skin cells um and that it's basically um almost like a tan extender um but you know lots of dermatologists are very very very concerned about the use of them i mean various cancer charities have warned against using them because they aren't they're not certified in the uk people are getting their hands on them but it's not good illegal and dangerous so it's just this interesting juxtaposition of people risky behavior and then the fake tan kind of on the rise as well it did get so much bad press though just in our last minute or so why do you think that was the what the the fake tan yes you mean I think I think it was a really easy way of having a pop at women who were

following a certain beauty trend and perhaps you know went for a slightly stronger hue. I personally always felt like there was a kind of a tone of, an underlying misogynistic tone to the whole, you know, oh, she's orange, look how orange her skin is. You know, I always felt that there was a kind of an air of snobbery actually around that sort of, that look that perhaps was the reason people weren't buying fake tan for a little while because i think it was a quite a you know an unpleasant and quite kind of reductive insult well it's back says jessica taylor who is the assistant editor of daily males

female online i'm going to be looking at skin tones much more carefully now jessica thank you so much uh for being with us on Woman's Hour. I do want to let you know tomorrow we're going to be looking at the impact of the government's plan to charge VAT on private school fees. I'll be hearing from a concerned parent the arguments for and against.

Do join me tomorrow from 10am for another edition of Woman's Hour. That's all for today's Woman's Hour. Join us again next time. BBC Sounds, music, radio, podcasts. I'm Carlo Gabler from BBC Radio 4 and the History Podcast. This is Escape from the Maze, the disturbing inside story of the biggest jailbreak

in British and Irish history. It's a major aberration. It's no different from an IRA aberration outside. Told by the people who carried it out and the people who tried to stop them. Stanford terrorised, obviously having difficulty breathing. It's an escape planned in forensic detail. It's a need-to-know basis and if you don't need to know, you don't know. That creates shockwaves at the heart of government. planned in forensic detail. It's a need-to-know basis, and if you don't need to know, you don't know. That creates shockwaves at the heart of government. It is a very grave incident indeed, the most serious in our prison history.

Find Escape from the Maze on the History Podcast. Listen on BBC Sounds. I'm Sarah Treleaven, and for over a year I've been working on one of the most complex stories I've ever covered. This is BBC Sounds. eye on earth. How long has she been doing this? What does she have to gain from this? From CBC and the BBC World Service, The Con, Caitlin's Baby. It's a long story, settle in. Available now.