Woman's Hour - The BBC's Big Night in; PPE doesn’t fit women; Child maintenance suspended

Episode Date: April 23, 2020

Comic Relief and Children In Need are joining forces for the first time for a special night of comedy, music and live entertainment, to raise money for their projects on BBC 1 tonight. It'll celebrate the people who making a difference and supporting those affected during these extraordinary times. Zoe Ball tell us about The Big Night In. The British Medical Association, the professional organisation for doctors, highlights the fact personal protective equipment (PPE) tends to be designed for the “size and shape of male bodies”, despite the fact that 75 per cent of NHS workers are women. We hear from Dr. Helen Fidler Deputy Chair of the BMA UK Consultants Committee.There are nearly 2 million single parents across the UK, and many rely on Child Maintenance Payment . However the COVID-19 crisis means many people have lost their job or some of their income. So, the Department for Work and Pensions has said that parents who pay it will be allowed to stop or reduce payments without any investigation or appeal. What impact will that have on single parent households? Angela a single mum of two tells us about what the changes will mean for her. Plus we hear from Victoria Benson the CEO of Gingerbread a charity who offer for single parent families. Why does society blame the victims of sexual violence rather than the perpetrators? Dr Jessica Taylor explains her research into how victim blaming works And the complexities of friendship, intimacy and young love - we speak to Daisy Edgar Jones who plays Marianne, in the TV adaptation of Sally Rooney’s novel Normal People.Presenter Jenni Murray Producer Beverley PurcellGuest; Daisy Edgar Jones Guest; Zoe Ball. Guest; Dr Helen Fidler Guest; Victoria Benson Guest; Jessica Taylor

This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK. I'm Natalia Melman-Petrozzella, and from the BBC, this is Extreme Peak Danger. The most beautiful mountain in the world. If you die on the mountain, you stay on the mountain. This is the story of what happened when 11 climbers died on one of the world's deadliest mountains, K2, and of the risks we'll take to feel truly alive. If I tell all the details, you won't believe it anymore. Extreme. Peak danger. Listen wherever you get your podcasts.

BBC Sounds. Music, radio, podcasts. Hello, Jenny Murray welcoming you to the Woman's Hour podcast for Thursday the 23rd of April. Good morning. Tonight is BBC One's Big Night In where comic relief and children in need join forces. Zoe Ball will be with us for a preview. As the adaptation of Sally Rooney's novel Normal People is set to start on television, Daisy Edgar-Jones explains how she mastered the role of Marianne. Loan parents and maintenance payments. The parent who pays child support is to be allowed to stop paying during the corona crisis. How will the parent who looks after the children manage?

And a new book, Why Are Women Blamed for Everything? Dr Jessica Taylor and her research into the blaming of victims. Now we've heard time and time again in recent weeks about the shortage of personal protective equipment for staff in the NHS and care homes who are looking after people who've contracted COVID-19. But getting the gear when it happens may not be enough. 75% of workers in the caring professions are women and the British Medical Association has hit out this week at the problem which has been widely discussed in social media that ppe tends to be designed for the size and shape of male bodies so are women putting themselves at

greater risk than men because they can't get protective cover that fits well dr helen fiddler is a consultant gastroenterologist and deputy chair of the BMA UK Consultants Committee. Helen, how much more risk are women facing than men because of this problem? Well, it's difficult to quantify it. And one of the reasons for that is that we have a big problem with data. So there's a massive gender data gap. If you don't bother to ask and you don't bother to collect data, you simply don't know that there's a problem. But we do know that seven out of 10 women don't have adequately fitting PPE. And we do know that's because it's designed for men. So one female colleague of mine who has quite a small face has had to pull the mask so tight she's created ulcers and her eyes are squashed so she can barely see.

Now that's pretty bad if you're doing that for an hour or two. But if you're in a 12 hour shift dealing with emergency situation, that's really, really awful. And this is an issue that has to be raised and has to be discussed. So if it doesn't fit it causes problems for her face and her eyes but how effective is it if it's not properly fitting in protecting her from the virus? Yeah well that's that's exactly the question isn't it so not only is it not going to work, it might actually make things worse because it gives people a false sense of reassurance if they're wearing the closely fitting face mask. But if it's got a leak, they might then put themselves at risk without realising. So it's worse than useless. This isn't just having a gown that's too big. So for 30 years, I've put up with gowns that, you know, you might trip over and they're

just too big for women. That's uncomfortable. But this is a matter of real danger for women and also for men with smaller faces. So it's a big problem. And the other thing that's very interesting is that when women tell me about this, they say, well, you you know it's my fault I've just got a funny face I've got a small face so women feel in some way that they're not entitled to have equipment that fits them properly we've got so used to this casual sexism that we

don't even call it out and it's time for this to change everyone working in health care at the moment needs to have the right protective equipment with the right fit at the right time. What about clothing? I mean you say you've always been used to the gown being too big and you might trip over it but it's more complicated than just a gown now. I mean it's real protective clothing that stops the virus? Are they getting stuff that fits them on their bodies? So the main concern I've heard about has been with these face masks, because that is such an exact science. They have to be properly fit tested. And we know that when they're fit tested, they often are not fitting women. And in that situation, what's happening is that women are not being given

an alternative. They're not being said, oh, don't worry, come back for the fit test tomorrow and we'll get a different mask. People are just lucky that they're there at all. And it's like a pick and mix when you turn up for a shift, which mask is available. This really isn't good enough. The issue with gowns is not probably such a risk, but it's extremely uncomfortable. And don't get me started on the issue of menopausal women trying to work in gowns that are massively too big in a hot environment. It's something that has to be considered. We need to close the gender data gap in this area and get proper data on how fit testing is going by gender in trusts and disaggregate the data. What do you make of what the Department of Health and Social Care

told us? They said the safety of our staff is paramount and we're working around the clock to ensure PPE is delivered as quickly as possible to those on the front line. It is designed to be unisex and offer protection to both genders, although some products are available in different sizes to fit smaller and larger frames. What do you make of that? So that's very interesting, isn't it? And that sounds great, but it may be made in smaller sizes, but it's made in smaller sizes for men, so it's not made in smaller sizes for women. Mae'n sain yn wych, ond efallai ei fod wedi'i wneud mewn cymaint o fwy, ond mae'n cael ei wneud mewn cymaint o fwy i'r menywod, felly nid yw'n cael ei wneud mewn cymaint o fwy i'r fenywod.

I'n onest, mae'n ddysgenwyr i'w alw'n unisex. Mae'n cael ei ddylunio, gan y llaw, ar gyfer ymdrechion a chymaint o fwy. Nid yw hynny'n unig yn y gofal iechyd, mae hynny hefyd yn digwydd mewn diwydiant eraill. Mae'r mater yw bod ein adroddiad BNA o 6,000 o ddoddwyr wedi dod o hyd i hanner o ddoddwyr ddim yn cael y PPE ar gael fel y ddylai ei fod unrhyw ffordd. Felly rydym yn cael diwydiant lle rydyn ni'n teimlo'n ffodus i gael unrhyw beth, p'un a fydd yn cymryd neu ddim, ac nid yw hynny'n dda o gwbl. Mae yna ddwy drosodd o ni'n teimlo'n cael really isn't good enough. A third of us are feeling pressurised to work without proper equipment. And that's putting not only our own lives at risk, but particularly for women who are often caregivers,

it puts the lives of those living at home with us at risk as well. What's your advice to your members who obviously have a job to do, desperately want to do that job job but maybe putting themselves at risk it's it is an invidious situation for anyone men or women to find themselves in and doctors will always run towards the patient in need it's just how we are hardwired but before that happens you have to know that you're safe and so everyone should be properly fit tested not just a quick fit check that the mask is sort of okay it has to be properly fit tested and if there isn't one that fits then your employer has a responsibility to find one that

does before you're put in that situation when you're needed in ITU or in the emergency department at short notice. Do you think there are now being made things that will fit both either men or women? Well it would be lovely to think so but I've seen no data to suggest that women are being considered in any way in getting face masks that fit. It's simply been a question of trying to get them at all, not trying to look at what the particular needs of 77% of the workforce, the female workforce need. I'm sorry, Dr Helen Fiddler, I said it was only 75% and now you tell me it's 77%.

That is significantly more. Thank you very much indeed for joining us this morning and fingers crossed the right PPE comes through. Now Sally Rooney's Normal People was published in 2018 and rated as one of the best novels of the 21st century. It tells the story of Marianne and Conall, who live in a small town in the west of Ireland. They're at the same school. Conall's mother cleans Marianne's mother's house. And the two late teenagers really couldn't be more different.

Marianne is a rather intimidating loner who challenges the authority of the teachers and often ends up having to stay in detention. Conall is a studious, well-liked athletic football player. Well, the two fall in love and lust. It's now been adapted for television by BBC Three. Daisy Edgar-Jones plays Marianne and Paul Mescal is Conall. Here they make their tentative first steps.

You know, you were saying the other day that you like me. By the photocopier, you said it? Yeah. Yeah. Did you mean like as a friend or what? No, not just as a friend. I thought that might be implied, I just wasn't sure. See, I'm just a little confused about what I feel. I think it would be awkward in school if something happened with us.

No one would have to know. Daisy, what did you make of the book when you read it? no one would have to know Daisy what did you make of the book when you read it? Hello I fell in love with it straight away I think a lot of people did I read it in about an hour

I kind of ate it up really I think Sally Rooney's kind of touched on a really unique thing telling a really raw and honest story of love and of growing up. And I think she just captures it so well. And what did you make of Marianne when you first encountered her in the book? Yeah, I mean, I really, I really loved Marianne. odd she was particularly at school and how she kind of had this very deep inner life and you know her observations of the social ladder and what that mean meant for her and you know as she

grows up her kind of battle with her self-identity is something I think we all kind of can relate to as a young person growing up so there's a lot about Marianne that I really kind of fell in love with. Now Conal is her first lover, although one suspects, I've seen the first two episodes, one suspects she's not his first, but he wants to keep their relationship a secret. Why do you suppose she's so casual about allowing it? I mean, I think that, you know, Marianne, she kind of appears to be very sort of self-confident.

And I think she sort of floors a lot of her school friends because she appears to not really care about the social kind of ladder. And I think when you're at school, your whole kind of world revolves around your social sort of standing. So I think for her school friends, that's very unnerving. But really, Marianne actually has a very kind of low opinion of herself, I think, because of her family life. She sort of feels that she is this ultimately cold and unlovable person. So I think she kind of she really understands why Conall wouldn't want to be associated with her. And it's quite sad, but I think she sort of she understands his decision and I think you know as as it kind of moves on in this sort of early school years she starts to believe that maybe she could you know be liked and accepted because of the way he

sort of um makes her feel and then unfortunately his own uh social anxiety kind of makes him you know regress and ask Rachel to the Debs and for Marianne, that's devastating because it kind of confirms all her views of herself. There are some very intimate sex scenes. And I know you had an intimacy coach to help you do it. How easy was it, though, to be so graphic? It's the first big role, really big, big role you've had. And suddenly you have to do all that. Yes. I mean, nothing will prepare you to what that feels like I mean I was incredibly sort of nervous as you can imagine to sort of um take on that aspect of the filming but you know it was such an important part of the story and

you know it's so beautifully written in the book it was really important to do it justice and we were very lucky Paul and I that we felt um so safe you know when we filmed those scenes because we had this wonderful intimacy coordinator who um I mean I can't imagine doing anything like that without one and I think it should be the kind of gold standard to have someone on set just to make sure that everything is sort of being well looked after and handled properly and she just created an environment that always felt that we could kind of you know question things and we never felt you know as a young actor you're eager to please and you know it is both Paul and I's first sort of big role and we obviously don't want to you know mess up so I think she kind of created a place and space

where we could always feel that we you know were 100% consensual with everything we were being asked to do. And also we've had an immense amount of love behind the camera because the crew and the set was so, you know, was such a friendly place, which meant that we could kind of relax and just concentrate on the acting part of it. What are you hoping young people who watch this will take from these scenes? Because I have to say what impressed me was there's great care to make sure it's clear it's consensual. You know, Connell says, you can tell me to stop if you really want me to stop. And they make sure it's protected sex.

So what do you hope young people will take away from it? I mean, I'm immensely proud of that aspect of the series because how refreshing to have a scene that is still incredibly tender and sexy and, you know, everything you want from a kind of sex scene, but yet it has this element of consent and it has this element of using protection, which isn't something I've often sort of seen. I think I really hope that people watch it and especially as a young person I think I'd have really learned from you know that that should be how it should always be when you're you know intimate with someone that there should always be a an element of care and you should

always feel that you you know you are consenting 100% and I just think that's a really refreshing sort of depiction of of the sex scenes and even you know throughout the whole series there is 50-50 nudity which um you know is something that I don't often see and and and the characters are never kind of sexualized when they're when they're nude it's always kind of incidental and I think it's just refreshing to see a scene that isn't, you know, billowing curtains and a warm candlelight. It's very awkward and it's clumsy and it's everything that's, you know, realistic about what actual relationships are like. It seems to me watching it that you and Paul get on like a house on fire. Am I right about that?

Yes, thank goodness. What a stress if we didn't. OK, I won't pursue you on whether you know whether it was a romance or not oh no not at all not at all just best friends which is yeah which is brilliant because it took the pressure off the whole you know it seems that we were just really good friends now the story is is set in Sligo and then in Dublin how easy was it to master the right Irish accent which you seem to do perfectly oh thank you I mean that was incredibly important because you know I mean the the accents across Ireland are so nuanced and specific to each region and I didn't want to you know ever feel like I

was kind of just doing a generalized accent because that wouldn't be truthful um but yeah I mean my mum's from Northern Ireland so I always had kind of the Irish accent in my house and my granddad lived with me for a long time so um so we'd always kind of speak in accents um so you know I had the kind of sounds in my head from an early age but um I guess it was just I worked with a brilliant accent coach um who kind of helped me refine particular sounds and um I listened to Sally Rooney speak a lot as well because she's from Mayo and she, you know, she is a very, she's very intelligent

and she has a very kind of measured way of speaking, which I thought might be quite helpful for Marianne. Yeah, go on. It's difficult, isn't it, when everything's at a distance? I know your father was an executive producer on Big Brother and I thought, hmm, what advice is he giving her about handling fame, which is going to come? Yes, well, you know, he's brilliant really

because, I mean, you know, he obviously, when Big Brother was, you know, at the top of its sort of game, I mean, the kind of fame that came from it was huge and, you know, I guess he had a really good perspective on it that you know that even if people treat you differently you aren't different as a person and you just have to accept that you know people may feel that they know you but they they don't and and to never kind of you know get swept up in something you know what I mean. And how are you handling lockdown? Yes it's a strange old time isn't it I mean it's awfully strange to be talking about normal people while all of this is kind of

happening in the world but um yeah not too bad doing lots of reading I mean I can't seem to concentrate for more than five minutes which is really really annoying because I thought I'd be doing I don't know some skill learning but um I'm growing some carrots which is quite fun but yeah not too bad so far. Thank you. Well, Daisy Edgar-Jones, thank you very much for being with us this morning. And I'll remind everyone they can see Normal People on BBC Three through the iPlayer from Sunday or on BBC One on Monday night at nine o'clock under 12 episodes. Thank you, Daisy.

Now, still to come in today's programme, why women are blamed for everything. Dr Jessica Taylor on her research into the blaming of victims and what to expect tonight in BBC One's Big Night In. Zoe Ball joins us for a preview. And Daisy just said she's reading

but finding it difficult to concentrate. But what are the books that are getting you through lockdown? Girl, Woman, Other, the author Bernadine Evaristo, recently appeared on the programme and shared the books she's been turning to for comfort and escapism. You've also been sharing your lockdown reads with us on Instagram, at BBC Women's Hour, so we've rounded up some of the most popular

for a latest article that's on the Women's Hour website now, if you're looking for inspiration for what to read. Now, there are around 2 million lone parents across the UK and significant numbers of those who take care of the children are dependent on child maintenance payments. But the coronavirus crisis has caused huge problems. Often the parent who pays the child support has become unemployed. And the Department of Work and Pensions has agreed that where a parent has no income at this time,

they can stop or even reduce their payments. How will the parent who depends on that money manage? Well, Angela is a lone mother with two young children, and Victoria Benson is the chief executive of Gingerbread. Victoria, how significant is child maintenance for the majority of single parent households? Well, it's hugely significant. Even before this crisis, we knew that single parents were twice as likely as non-single parents to be in poverty and many of them relied on the child maintenance payments to lift them out of poverty and many others rely on

child maintenance payments for food for clothes for their children and now after this crisis we know that single parents the resident parents are even more hit and they really need this money just to survive. So what has actually been said to you by the DWP, Department of Work and Pensions, about easing up during the crisis? So we've been informed that where a paying parent decides that they can no longer afford to pay the full amount of maintenance, if they choose to pay less for this period, the DWP won ymchwil am unrhyw addas mewn gwneud cyflog. Maen nhw'n canolbwyntio eu hyder ar gyfer

credyd unigol. Felly, ar gyfer y cyfnod hwn o'r crisis, byddant yn ymchwil am unrhyw addas. and there isn't any suggestion that they're going to fill in the income gap that the resident parents are going to suffer from. Angela, how dependent are you on child support? I'm very dependent really. It goes towards the upkeeping of the children which can be towards rental costs of keeping a keeping roof over their head it can also go towards the costs of food and everyday running bills i know you're a survivor of domestic abuse how easy has it been to get the money for the children it's not been a very good experience at all because obviously he's used every kind of trick in the book to avoid you to pay me child maintenance.

And that's either been undeclaring income, dissolving companies, not declaring rental revenue and also working cash in hand. Victoria, how common is it for the parent who has the children to have difficulty getting the money they need? Well, we know that most single parents don't receive any maintenance from their ex. And then many who do pursue payment through the CMS also suffer difficulties. I should say, I think the vast majority of parents do work together and put the child first and are happy to pay. But we do see an awful lot of single parents who are struggling to receive payments that they're meant to receive through the CMS system. So, Angela, how are you going to manage? Because, you know, this lockdown could go on, we're hearing, for quite some time. How will you manage with you and the kids?

It'll basically just be tighten up, you know, tighten up my belt. So obviously, you know know cutting down my allowance my weekly allowance a little bit more so maybe cutting back on food shopping but also luckily i've got family who would be able to support me with the things such as rental costs and stuff like that now victoria obviously we asked the dwp about this and they said it's right that we look to streamline our operations and ensure that people get the support they need no one will get away with giving false information to avoid paying what they owe and all decisions carry rights of appeal so either parent can dispute a decision those found to be abusing

the system at this difficult time will find themselves subject to the full extent of our enforcement powers including prosecution through the courts so clearly they are taking a tough line on this as well as trying to be sympathetic to those people who have no money coming in what do you make of what they say? They are, but they've said that they're not going to do... Hello? Sorry. So, Victoria here.

So, they're saying that they will take a tough line, but they're not going to take a tough line during the period of this crisis. So, for the period of this crisis, however long that lasts, there's going to be no investigation. And so there is scope for a paying parent to simply decide to reduce payment for a valid or an invalid reason. And the parent who has residency of the child is going to be left high and dry. So what do you want the Department of Work and Pensions to do about this? Well, we want the Department of Work and Pensions to provide an income,

a minimum level of income to the resident parents during this period. We don't think in the general scheme of things it's a vast amount for them. But for this period, however long it lasts, and we don't know, at the end of the day, it's going to be the child who suffers. And we know that many parents are going to be cutting back on food, are going to be unable to afford clothing. And they're also facing increased costs because their child's at home with them all day. So we believe the DWP should step in and fill the gap. Victoria, Benson and Angela, thank you both for joining us this morning.

And if you're facing this problem, we would like to hear from you. You can send us an email or, of course, you can send us a tweet. It's often been said that it's extremely difficult to convince juries to convict when cases of rape reach the criminal court, even when the evidence appears to be compelling. It's also often said the reason is because the victim is blamed. Was her skirt too short? Had she flirted with him? Had she had too much to drink? Was it her fault? Well, where do these assumptions come from and what impact do they have on the very professionals who are there to support women and girls who've suffered sexual violence. Well Dr Jessica Taylor is a research psychologist and the author of

Why Women Are Blamed For Everything. Jessica what convinced you that victim blaming is a pervasive problem? For me it was I worked in victim support and then i worked in courts managing these types of cases then i managed rape centers and in every single job that i had there was a different form of victim blaming towards women and girls so for example when i was working um in the courts i often felt like i was just supporting women and girls to get led into a room where everything about them would be discredited. When I was running the rape centres, even though the support systems are very different, a lot of women and girls were coming in and telling us that their GPs or their mental health services or somebody had told them that it was their own fault or that their symptoms so for example if they're having flashbacks or nightmares that they were either making them up or they were exaggerating them or that nobody was asking them about the rape or the abuse and over a period of

years of working in that field I decided that I wanted to focus on the research I wanted to understand the psychology behind it because it was day in day out why do you then believe that there is apparently much more interest in blaming the victim rather than the perpetrator so there are a number of reasons um that all come together one of one of them um that lots of people talk about is rape myth acceptance so that's like a set of myths about what a real rape is or who a real rape victim is and and a set of I guess characteristics that you have to hit so things like you have to have been attacked by a stranger it happened at night it happened in an unfamiliar location you were I don't know walking home through a strange environment and you were attacked and that that creates this myth that there's a real type of rape that happens to women

and girls and if if your experience sits outside of that so for example it was your partner that did it or a family member or it happened in your own home or there was no witnesses instantly you fall outside of that that sort of criteria and then you are much more likely to be blamed so there's rape myths and then there's this really interesting theory called belief in a just world and that's a cognitive bias that millions of people hold it's found all over the world in all different cultures and languages and communities that people tend to believe that good things happen to good people and bad things happen to bad people and so if you are raped or sexually abused people who hold that belief in a just, often they hold it sort of semi-consciously, they will seek out something that you did wrong or look for the mistake you made or what you could have done differently to stop that from happening to you. psychologically from the reality that this could happen to us at any point so if we can believe that um oh that person was raped because this and this and this and i will never do those things and that will never happen to me it helps us to feel more psychologically safe but jessica we've been

discussing these things that particularly the rape myths for as frankly as long as i can remember why are police officers social workers lawyers not seeming to really understand those myths okay so i think that in my experience because i've been training those groups of people for over 10 years now some of it is the way that they are trained so the messages that they're given in their initial training and their ongoing training is to look for what the victim did wrong and so often I'll come across those types of professionals who genuinely are trying to do a good job but the way that they're trained the risk assessments that they're given the the systems that they work within it's always about what is the vulnerability of that woman or girl what did she do wrong what

could she have done differently and then to the approach the intervention that is suggested is to try and change something about the woman or girl to make her more resilient or better at dealing with the fact that she's been raped not we don't really have any interventions that actually work with the woman or girl and say look what you have been through is horrific you are entitled to respond like this it's going to take a long time for you to feel okay again it is not your fault there really aren't any interventions like that how powerful is popular culture in reinforcing the myths we've been talking about it so the research finds that it is extremely influential um the head the way headlines are written, the way journalists write about sexual violence, including episodes of soaps and popular dramas, CSI investigation type dramas are found to be very influential so for example um there was a really interesting study that was done by molly magistro um who looked at all of the episodes of a csi drama and found that in a hundred percent

of the episodes in the first 10 seasons there was um victim blaming of women and girls who had been raped and she actually in her book she actually shows the the script extracts of where that happened so we know that we know that people who are exposed to victim blaming headlines in newspapers and on the internet are much more likely to believe that women and girls lie about being raped and they tend to overestimate that sometimes 20 or 30 times more than what is really happening so it does have a huge impact. Now in your research you found no difference in the way men and women apportioned blame to rape victims why do you suppose that is? Yeah that's right so I wasn't the first person to find that it's been coming for about i would say about a

decade so originally in the 60s 70s 80s the research found that men um victim blamed women and girls who had been raped and abused much more than women did and over the years women have got more and more and more sort of closer to the attitudes of men which is interesting in itself and i think that's because um when you live in a society as a woman or girl and you are brought up with misogyny you take that in and you apply it to other women as well you apply misogyny to yourself which means that you'll blame yourselves for sexist and misogynistic reasons you objectify yourself you sexualize yourself but you also do that to other women and girls so then when another woman or girl in your life or somebody

that you know is raped or abused you will apply the same reasoning that men would so it now the research is finding that there is no statistically significant difference between the way men and women um blame women and girls for being raped and abused there's also um interestingly no difference between the way women and girls who have actually been raped themselves and women and girls who have never experienced that they also tend to blame women and girls at the same rate there's no difference there either now you're critical of prevention programs and the concept of vulnerability that's employed in child safeguarding risk assessments so what do you say to those who are desperate to protect girls let's say from grooming that's a really interesting question so

yes i am really critical of that because a lot of the interventions and prevention campaigns at the moment they focus on looking at what the child has done wrong or is there's some sort of vulnerability in their i don't know their personality their self-esteem, in their behavior, their character. And I do think that's wrong. I don't think we should be looking at what's wrong with girls. So I tend to advise people to talk to their children as early as possible. basic things help so naming their anatomy correctly talking to them about abuse talking to them about misogyny talking to them about sexism and and narratives in society um and then i like to advise people to always place 100 responsibility um on groomers and perpetrators so if you are talking to a child about grooming on the internet don't say things like um i don't

know if you go on the internet and you say this then this might happen to you i would prefer us to say things like some adults on the internet use it to target children and this is how they will do it and these are the different techniques they use so i like to place all the focus on the perpetrators um and educate in that way and when i do that in schools with girls that tends to work i, a lot better than going in and scaring them. You write about the backlash and abuse that comes from working on violence against women. Why do you think the people who behave abusively do it? I think there's a number of reasons. I think it's intimidating. So when a woman has a voice and is able to use that voice in a way that threatens

patriarchy, in the way that it will threaten the norm of male power and male violence the quickest way to shut her up is to scare her to abuse her what's really interesting is the type of abuse that i get i it's just based on gender role stereotypes so i get told that i'm i'm fat i'm ugly um you know i don't know nobody wants to sleep with me or something like that and it's interesting when you actually look at the type of abuse what they are doing is they're assuming that you want all of these those things so if you say to me oh you're ugly it's because they think oh all women should be beautiful you're fat oh it's because they think all women should be thin and so all of the abuse that I get it's about it's about silencing you as quick as, humiliating you and making you feel as low as possible so that you shut up. And I think that the fact that I don't shut up makes them more angry because then they're losing power.

And we've seen this in domestic violence. It happens in sexual violence. When perpetrators lose power, their behaviours escalate. Dr. Jessica Taylor, thank you very much indeed for being with us this morning. And I'll just mention again the title of your book. It's called Why Women Are Blamed For Everything. Thank you very much. Now tonight at seven o'clock on BBC One, Comic Relief and Children In Need will join forces for the big night in.

And Zoe Ball will be one of the hosts. Zoe, hello. Good morning, Jenny. Hello. You're hosting the event. Who will be your co-hosts? My co-hosts tonight? Well, Davina and Matt Baker are kicking everything off

with the wonderful Lenny Henry. And then Paddy McGuinness and I will join the team after the Clap for Carers at 8 o'clock. We'll be linking up to all sorts of people around the nation clapping for carers that moment on a Thursday night that I think we all really look forward to actually, just that sort of coming together moment. And I think the idea tonight is there are two things. One, to provide some entertainment for everybody who's stuck inside, to have a laugh. We've got some fantastic comedians and musicians

who have all, I must say, leapt at the chance to do something to make people smile. But the key as well tonight is to raise some money. And we really want to raise some money for all the charities supported by Comet Relief and Children in Need who really are in need during this crisis. So who's going to be making us laugh from their front room? The lineup is pretty special Jenny I have to say we have Steve Coogan and Rob Brydon have gotten together although remotely for the trip which I look forward to seeing how this is going to work Catherine Tate is meeting

up with her dear friend David Tennant Lauren Am I Bothered the teenager is being homeschooled yet again by Sir we have Matt Lucas has recorded his baked potato song with members of the BBC orchestra Celeste will be singing we've got the people just do nothing we've got the gang from has recorded his baked potato song with members of the BBC orchestra. Celeste will be singing. We've got the people just do nothing. We've got the gang from Strictly, Peter Kay. We have Joe Wicks, several doctors from Doctor Who. There's lots to make you laugh.

The cast of Miranda, lots to make you laugh and hopefully lots to move people as well as we sort of share the stories of uh folk really needing support people most vulnerable uh at the moment during this crisis do you know what sort of contribution the government's agreed to make because obviously you know this is a big thing to try and raise money for charities what's the government saying well the government have the uk government have said that they will match pound for pound the money raised by the british public for big night in and when we're talking about big night in they've outlined three clear areas where the

support is urgently needed at the moment number one uh food and other basic essentials i.e making sure people who are in need of essentials are able to get them. Supporting frontline charities to reach those in a crisis. Number two is connecting people with vital services and tackling isolation. You know, we need that those face to face services for those most at risk. We're talking about children and children and their families, the older vulnerable people, people at risk of domestic violence. You know, we've seen those calls to the helplines, you know, going up so much during this crisis. Those living in poverty.

We're also thinking about those social and physical isolation is really impacting on people's mental health and their well-being. So hopefully these funds are going to help organisations across the UK communities reach those people most affected. And also supporting local charities to adapt and innovate to address the hidden risks. You know, a lot of these charities are the only witness to hidden dangers, things that are going unnoticed behind closed doors, such as domestic abuse or child abuse or escalating mental health issues. You know, these charities are a lifeline to so many people in crisis they work alongside the NHS and

key workers to support the most vulnerable in society and you know the NHS capacity obviously inevitably affected by the coronavirus crisis so these charities are playing a key role as part of frontline response to COVID-19 and so we're going to support them and i must also say that we totally appreciate there are a lot of people really struggling financially in this crisis if you can give tonight we will welcome that but if you can't give tonight just enjoy the entertainment because it's going to be a really fun night now i suspect you were up a bit early this morning because you've been busy this morning. Quick sleep this afternoon so that you'll be busy tonight as well?

Yes, I might get in a nana nap, Jenny. If I'm lucky, if I get a 20-minute nana nap in, I'll be very happy. And not too many coffees, otherwise I'll be bouncing off the walls. I was talking to Zoe Ball. Lots of you got in touch about the personal protection equipment designed for men. Josie said in an email, I'm a coast guard in Devon. The kit is great quality, but all designed for men. Large wrists, long legs, goggles that fall down, etc. It's not just dangerous, it also can make women feel excluded in what is already a traditionally male environment. The good news is the Coast Guard team are aware of the issue and are conducting a survey of female views in order to change the PPE long term. This needs to happen across all services. Julie says, I finally found

and bought online women's work trousers with padded knees. Disaster. They are wide, man-sized legs with a smaller waist. A high wind would take me away. Stephen added, it's not only masks that are male orientated. My wife and I have searched previously for work trousers and gloves for her for both occupational and DIY jobs. There's nowhere near representative choice or sizes. And Alison Roger tweeted, I'm a couture clothing designer.

Most weddings are off. Can't fit my clients. We're making scrubs and cotton face masks, which I adapted the pattern issued by the US medics. I'd love to create good patterns for the female nurses and docs. And then on the question of lone parents and the suspension of maintenance payments, Anna White is directly affected. She tweeted, I care for my son 24-7. My payments reduced by £600 a month makes rent unaffordable. listening to your piece on child maintenance. I'm fortunate in that my ex is still working, so that hasn't been affected, but I'm terrified by the debt that I'll get into when HMRC ask for their child tax credits back. I might not be using childcare right now,

but having the children at home means significantly more food, more entertainment, more heating and water. And Emma tweeted, Allowing reduction in child support would be OK if the DWP paid it instead, but this arrangement is mad. A universal basic income would have been simpler and possibly fairer than the various income schemes they've come up with and the massive gaps between them.

Now do join me for the programme tomorrow when I'll be talking to an award-winning writer, Holly Watt, about her new book, The Deadline. It's about the trail of a surrogacy racket that involves a Harley Street doctor, a British ambassador and young refugee girls living in camps in Bangladesh. And Nigel Slater will join us, but tragically not in the studio, so he won't be bringing me any of his lovely food to eat. We will be talking about the difficulties of getting ingredients. One of his great joys is going out to shop for his food. So how is the lockdown altering the way he thinks about food?

He will also offer up a comforting carb-loaded recipe suggestion, so that's all right. Join me tomorrow. Bye-bye. I'm Sarah Treleaven, and for over a year, I've been working on one of the most complex stories I've ever covered. There was somebody out there who was faking pregnancies. I started, like, warning everybody. Every doula that I know. It was fake. No pregnancy.

And the deeper I dig, the more questions I unearth. How long has she been doing this? What does she have to gain from this? From CBC and the BBC World Service, The Con, Caitlin's Baby. It's a long story. Settle in. Available now.