Woman's Hour - UEFA's VP Laura McAllister, playwright Beth Steel, film director Gurinder Chadha

Episode Date: July 4, 2025

Laura McAllister is the Vice-President of UEFA. During her own football career Laura was the captain of Wales' women's team, gaining 24 caps for her country. Wales have qualified for this year's Euros for the first time and will play their debut match tomorrow, as will England who are defending their title after winning at Wembley in 2022. Laura joins Datshiane Navanayagam ahead of those first games. Award-winning playwright Beth Steel tells Datshiane how her working-class, northern roots inspire her hit play Till The Stars Come Down. Set at the wedding of Sylvia and Marek - the vodka flows and dances are shared, passions boil over and the limits of love are tested. She becomes the fifth female playwright to transfer from the National Theatre to the West End.The film director Gurinder Chadha has released a trailer to celebrate this summer's cricket fixtures between England and India's women's teams. She joins Datshiane to discuss why she's chosen to put women's cricket under the spotlight and the legacy of her last hit film about women's sport, Bend It Like Beckham. The musical icon Angélique Kidjo has become the first black African performer to be selected for a star on the prestigious Hollywood Walk of Fame. Kidjo, who comes from the West African country of Benin, and has won five Grammy awards, was among the 35 names announced as part of the Walk of Fame's class of 2026 list. Music journalist Kate Hutchinson tells us more. Presenter: Datshiane Navanayagam Producer: Corinna Jones

This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK. deal ratings and price history, so you know a great deal when you see one. That's cargurus.ca. Hello, I'm Dashiani Navaniagam and welcome to Women's Hour on BBC Radio 4. Good morning and a very warm welcome to the programme. The UK has not won, but two countries competing in the Euros tomorrow. England and Wales both play their first matches on Saturday, and it's also Wales' debut match in the tournament. I'll be joined in just a moment by former international footballer Laura McAllister, who is now Vice President of UEFA and a proud Welsh woman to boot. More on that shortly. and a proud Welsh woman to boot. More on that shortly. I also want to talk to you about weddings. They're meant to be the happiest days of

your life, but let's admit it. They can also be family pressure pots of stress. Maybe it brings back a whole lot of memories for you. Well, I'll be chatting to playwright Beth Steele on her award-winning play, Till the Stars Come Down, set on a wedding day in a former coal mining town. It's just transferred from the National Theatre to the West End. I went to see it last night and oof, there's a lot of feelings there and also a whole lot of laughs. And I'll also be joined in the studio with filmmaker Gurinder Chadha. Now you'll know her from blockbusters such as Bargy on the Beach and of course Bend It Like Beckham, how could we forget. In fact many of the lionesses tribute it with inspiring their love of football,

which got us thinking in the Woman's Hour office. What film has had a momentous impact on you? Perhaps you saw a film in your formative years that set you on your path for later life? Or did the story from a film inspire you to go down a completely different route later on? Or even bring about a whole new way of seeing the world? Well I'd really love to know. Do get in touch in all the usual ways. You can text the program. That number is 84844. Text will be charged at your standard message rate, just watch those charges, and on social media we're at BBC Women's Hour. You can email us through our website or of course send us a WhatsApp message or a voice note using the number 03 700 100 444. But first, I'm joined this morning by one of the most powerful women in football, and that is not an exaggeration.

Laura McAllister is the Vice President of the Union of European Football Associations, or UEFA as it's usually called. During her own football career, Laura was the captain of Wales' women's team, gaining 24 caps for her country. Wales, as I just said, have qualified for this year's Euros for the first time. They'll play their debut match tomorrow, as will England, who are defending their title after winning at Wembley in 2022. Well, I'm delighted to say Laura joins me from Switzerland. Laura, a very warm welcome to Women's Hour. Thank you very much indeed, Borda D'Arf from Lucerne. It's a pleasure to be with you. Well, it's great to have you with us. Look, first of all, what is the atmosphere like there?

How much excitement is there ahead of Wales' first game? I don't think you could have more excitement if it comes to the Wales fans for sure. We've got thousands arriving today and tomorrow morning. I think we've sold around 3000 tickets for our games. So everyone is recognising this is a historic moment for our women's national team. To qualify for their first major tournament

is a big, big landmark. Not just for women's football, but for women's sport. And I'd even go further and say for women in society in Wales, because it's been a battle to get to this position, as you probably know. So there's gonna be a lot of celebrations, a few tears, I suspect, when our glorious anthem plays before the game.

But there'll be lots of fun around Lisbon as well. Well, I definitely want to come back and talk to you about how we even got to this point. But I just wanted to say, because we heard just now in the news there, you know, the very sad news yesterday of the death of Diogo Jota and his brother, Andre Silva. How has that affected fans where you are? Well, I was at the Spain-Portugal game in my UEFA role last night and obviously with the Portuguese president. And the mood obviously was just so so emotional. And you could see that amongst the players and the federation

and the politicians who were joining us. You know, this was a player that touched the lives of many people, obviously in Liverpool and in the Premier League, but also in his native Portugal. And it was a very, very sad moment and a very sad day. And I know that we send our deepest condolences to the Portuguese federation and to Diogo's family and friends. I was on a women's forum last night and there were female football fans reaching out to one another and just talking about how the news had affected them and how it really is one big family.

And, you know, we mentioned very briefly just then that it's been a long time coming for Wales to get to this point. Just tell us about the history of the Wales women's team, because you are a key player in this even existing. Just talk us through your efforts to create it. OK, well, I'm not going to claim all the credit for this by any means, because, you know, the pioneers of the game were in the 70s and 80s before my time when they organized independently a women's national team. They did everything themselves. They organized the trials. They borrowed kits. There was never any support in any sense for facilities or accommodation

or training. No coaches, all volunteers. And so they were definitely the trailblazers for the women's game. But what happened when I came back from university in London, back to my native Wales and I joined the club that I played for for most of my career, Cardiff City Ladies, it was apparent to me that there was there were players there who deserved to play international football. And when I spoke to lots of the older girls there, they were saying that they'd tried before to get the Football Association of Wales interested in supporting the national team, but they hadn't had any joy.

So the three of us wrote a letter to the then General Secretary of the FAW, a chap called Alin Evans, and we asked him for a meeting to lobby, I suppose you term it, for the Federation to take charge of the women's team. And cutting a long story short, we had some success because a couple of weeks later after several meetings, the FAW entered the first Welsh, formal first Welsh national team into the European qualifiers. And I was very fortunate to be part of that squad which started my international career. So I guess I had a vested interest as well, but no, I'm very proud of the small part I've played. And how has the Wales team gone on to growth since then? How are things now? Well it hasn't been smooth for sure and we've had lots of setbacks along the way. We've come

very close to qualification through playoffs and heartbreakingly for the World Cup we lost in the last minute of added time to Switzerland, just here where I am at the moment. But also the Federation hasn't been consistent in its support, certainly up until recent times. There was a time when the FAW pulled funding from the women's game and pulled the national team out of a qualifier because the cost was substantial. I mean, crazy to think of that now,

but I'm glad to say things have changed immeasurably in recent times. And the Federation is a great, great supporter of the women's game. We've invested probably more in the women's game than most federations have in recent times. And the benefits of that are there for all to see, because we've qualified for our first Euros. We're in a tough group, yes, but we hold no fear.

You know, we're going to get through the group. That's our intent. And I think because the other three teams in the group are ranked more highly than us, England, France and the Netherlands, there's a danger that they may underestimate everything that we bring to this tournament on and off the pitch. And if we can slip under the radar and get through the group brilliantly, but performances are everything and results will take care of themselves. Well we'll all be watching tomorrow with baited breath and you've got a whole lot of supporters behind you and you know Wales is playing tomorrow, England is too. I mean they won the title last time

in 2022. How has the rise of the Lionesses in particular impacted women's football in Wales do you think? I think it's part of it and you know obviously when you have such a successful team as England in the 22 euros at home obviously, England is our nearest neighbour so there's obviously going to be some spillover in a beneficial way for us but we've got to do things our way in Wales. You know we're not England, We're a nation of 3.1 million people, the second smallest nation at the Euros after Iceland. So we've got to do things differently. We've got to maximize our talent in a way that England maybe doesn't have to. We have to have much stronger pathways which are based around players in a way that other bigger nations don't. But I think that's our strength as well, because we have a great sense of solidarity

and cohesion in Wales. And you'll see that from the Welsh fans who come to Luzon and St. Gallen. I mean, they're so proud of these players, you know, they believe these are role models for the next generation of women, whether that's in football or in society. So I think we borrow ideas off the other federations, but we do things our way as well, and that's in football or in society. So I think we borrow ideas off the other federations,

but we do things our way as well, and that's absolutely appropriate. Tell us about the fans who are coming to cheer you on, because you'll have a whole load, but how many, I guess little girls are there watching this? Yeah, for sure. Yeah. Well, my two girls are coming this evening.

They're not so little now, but they're very excited about coming over to watch Camry, to watch Wales in the finals. And I know that will be repeated by so many other families across Wales who are on their way out to support us. And that's a really joyful thing because, you know, I'm a football fan. I've been going to games, you know, men's games since I was a toddler, but there's something very special about the environment and atmosphere in the women's game. You know, it's inclusive. You'll see lots of LGBT groups with rainbow flags. You'll see lots of young children. You'll see lots of older people as well who are part of the family of football. And it feels like a really warm, encouraging, inclusive, welcoming place for

women who maybe haven't been to games before because we know the fan base is different. Lots of the fans, by the way, who are coming won't have been to see the Wales men's team before, they just come to see the Wales women's team. Isn't that wonderful? I mean, hopefully they'll come and see all of it in the future, but we need to nurture these fans and encourage them to come to every game and we'll get record crowds that way without a doubt. And some of those littler fans will definitely be looking at these women and thinking that is exactly what I want to do. At a grassroots level how are things progressing in Wales when it

comes to young girls in football? It's like everything we've made huge strides forward, we've already reached our target number for girls participating in football and that will see a big surge forward after these Euros without a doubt. But we've got more work to do because the problem that all organisations have and all national associations in football is there aren't enough spaces for girls to play. So not enough clubs, not enough facilities. And when we have good facilities, they don't necessarily suit the women's game. So we've got more work to do on all of that

to broaden the base of the pyramid, because that's so crucial to allow the pathway to work for elite and talented players. But I always say to people when they ask about what the tournament will bring, for me, it's about normalizing girls and women playing football, and you don't have to be good to do that. You know, yes, we want to have exemplary players

representing the nation, but we also want girls just to have a kick around and to enjoy playing because you get more fun and friendship from playing a team sport like football than you do from virtually anything else. And I know that from my own experience, you know, my best friends are still the friends and teammates that I played with for Wales and Cardiff, and you can't get that anywhere else. So it's about getting as many

girls out there kicking a ball, whether they're good or bad or indifferent. Well, you laugh together, you cry together, don't you? You do all the highs and lows together and it's just a real bonding exercise, I guess. But look, I want to talk to you about your work at UEFA because most people would say that if you want to talk to you about your work at UEFA, because most people would say that if you want to instigate change, you have to be in the room. There's no point shouting from outside. And you are most definitely in the room. You are, as I mentioned, vice president of UEFA.

Now, this isn't just for women's football, but all football. And you're also deputy chair of the UEFA Women's Football Committee. What are the big conversations you're having at this moment in time in relation to the women's game? They're very positive conversations in all fairness. You know, we've invested very heavily in UEFA, not only in this tournament, double the investment in this tournament from England and double the prize money for the teams and players. So there's lots of really positive resource going into the women's game. But we're also mindful that there's more work to do. You know, we know that some countries across the 55 nations in UEFA are just at the beginning of their journey,

maybe where Wales was, you know, in the 1990s. And we must bring them with us because it's no good replicating the men's vision of football where there's a big divide between the top clubs and even the top nations and the rest. We want to have a system of solidarity and competitive balance so that we bring small nations like small football nations maybe like Malta or Armenia or Kazakhstan along the journey with us because the girls' game and the women's game can be different to the men's game as well. But I mean you mentioned you mentioned UEFA and my role there. I mean for two years I've been the only woman on UEFA's ex-co you know the board of the organization but I'm I'm pleased to say that

things are starting to change because the president had asked me to chair a gender equality working group which would recommend some changes in how we go about elections and appointments and hiring of staff. And all of that creates a different environment for women to be seen activating the game. And I think that that will change over time. But you know, we've got to acknowledge that we've got a long way still to go in this agenda. But until women's voices are heard at the very top levels of football, we won't see the development of the game in a way that benefits everybody. And that's one of my absolutely key objectives.

You mentioned changes there. What kind of changes do we still need to see? And specifically, what hurdles need to be overcome to see the women's game continue to rise and rise? Well, the infrastructure of the women's game isn't as strong as the men's game. It's not as professionalized as the men's game. And when I say professionalized, I don't just mean contracts for players and pay for players, although that's really important, of course. It's also about the standards of technical coaching, the quality of the facilities, the infrastructure around the players

in terms of medical and strength and conditioning. We know that female players are having very different injuries or recurrence of different injuries like ACL knee injuries. So we've got more research to do. We've got more infrastructure building, but we're going in the right direction. I guess the frustration from those of us working in the game

is maybe the progress isn't quite as fast as we would all like it to be. But that's that's part of my role, you know, and I'm delighted I've been joined on Exco now by Lise Clavines, the president of Norway, who's a good friend and colleague of mine. So we have two women now out of 20, still not enough, obviously. But both Lise and I are former international players. We both worked in the sport. So nobody can say to us that we're not, we don't have a rightful place and a legitimate voice in influencing the way that European football develops. So let's hope that's just the start of a journey. football as I just said and you know and it is true it's not right it's not an exaggeration. Do you face resistance? How do you keep going because I can imagine this can be quite a brutal arena. It can yes it can be quite lonely at

times because not just being the only woman but sometimes being someone who will speak up for change I hope I do that in a collaborative way. You know, I'm not a confrontational person and I don't think that you get progress by fighting battles with people who don't, simply don't agree. So I've spent most of the first two years I've been on UEFA Exco building relationships with people

and explaining to them our journey in women's football and why it could be of benefit to their nations and the organisation as a whole to prioritise the women's game more. So I think, you know, we have to adopt different tactics when one is the only woman in the space and any woman in any sector will tell you the same. But equally, the goal is a very, very important one. For me, as I said, it's for every girl to have the opportunity to do what I did, which is to represent their nation.

But more importantly, for every girl to be able to go out and join a team and enjoy all the friendships and the fun you can get just from playing football. And you mentioned there that women's football doesn't need to do it the same way as men's football. You can do things differently and you can do things better. And we've heard on Women's Hour this week, you know, just how big women's football was just over 100 years ago before it was banned. You had tens of thousands of people turning up to see women

play football. I just wanted to ask you, you know, when it does come to profile and representation of women's football, how can we judge success here? How would you judge success? You know, what's the ultimate goal? Is it more money? Is it more sponsorship? Bigger crowds at stadiums? Revenue? Well, it's all of those things, to be perfectly honest honest because they all come together. If the women's game continues to develop exponentially, as I think it will, the standards will rise, the quality of the stadia will improve, the crowds will grow, the television exposure will get larger. So all of those things are really fundamental. You can't really unpick those or unravel them. So the

strategy for the game that we have in Europe, which is called unstoppable by the way, and I think that's a really good description of the way the women's game is growing. It puts it all together really, but governance and voice is part of that because we need women who know, and men by the way, but women and men who know the women's game

shaping the future of it. And if we can do that properly, then I think the future is very, very bright. And Laura, lastly, just before I let you go, you know, let's talk about this slogan for us, for them, for her. Just tell us very briefly what it means. Oh, it means an enormous amount to the players for a start, because the slogan came out of a kind of recognition of our heritage in the game. So for us, obviously, for the players who are playing now,

for them, those of us who went before, and those who went before me as well, who pioneered the game, and for her, for those little girls who will be in Luzerne and watching at home or in the fan zones in Wales tomorrow, and they'll see Jess Fishlock, and they'll see Kerry Holland, and they'll see Kerry Jones, and they'll think, I can be like that, and I want to go out and kick a ball straight away

and their parents will have to get out into their park and with their footballs. So it's a really important thing. I mean what people won't maybe won't see from other nations is the togetherness that we have as a nation. You know this is about Wales as a nation not just Wales in football. It's about our values of equality and diversity and a belief that we can show the world what Wales is all about in this tournament. I think that vibe is completely coming across in this interview and I can see it in your face and your expression and your demeanour. Look, all the best of luck for tomorrow.

Laura, thank you very much and of course you can keep up with the Euros across the BBC So tomorrow as we've just said Wales are playing at 5 p.m. Against the Netherlands and England faces France That's at 8 p.m. And do stay with us because a bit later on I'm speaking to Gurinder Chabot the director of Bend It Like Beckham a groundbreaking film and but but this time she's now turning her hand to cricket, all to be revealed. Now you may remember last year we featured some fascinating topics suggested by you during Listener Week from our relationships to our Tommies to later in life lesbians. Well if you've got a personal story that you'd like to share with the audience then do let us know. Last year Siobhan Daniels contacted us to tell us about her alternative way of living, giving up her home and possessions

and taking to the road in her retirement. Listen to this. I literally woke up one morning and I thought motorhome and it was like a eureka moment. And I'd never holidayed in one, never driven one, hadn't got a clue. And I remember turning the key in the ignition in the motorhome in 2019, sort of giggling and crying at the same time thinking, what the heck are you doing? Where are you going? And I genuinely didn't know, but I somehow had this innate belief that it was going to work out and I was going to find my happy place and I have. Siobhan there still embracing the nomadic life in her motor home.

As I said, do get in touch with us. We'd love to hear whatever fascinating issue you think is worth a deep dive into. And coming up, as I just mentioned, we have Garinda Chadder, Bend It Like Beckham director, a film that inspired girls to go into football. So we're also asking for your stories today about a film that took you on a certain path in life. That text number 84844 on social media, it's at BBC Women's Hour or email us through the website. Now when playwright Beth Steele was growing up in Walsup, the coal mining town in Nottinghamshire, the thought of writing a hit play for the West End never entered her head.

Beth is from a working-class family, she left school at 16 and it was only years later that she would pick up her pen. But since then she's written a number of hit shows for Fringe Theatres and in 2014 she won the Evening Standard Theatre Award for Most Promising Playwright. Last year her play, Till the Stars Come Down, about a working-class wedding in the north of England, got rave reviews when it was staged at the National Theatre. Well it's just transferred to the Theatre Royal Haymarket in the West End, making her the fifth female playwright to do so. And I'm so glad to say that she's here with me in the studio. Beth, a very warm welcome to Women's Hour.

Oh thank you for having me. Well look, congratulations. It's a great play. I went to see it last night. And, oh, I mean, there was, as I said right at the beginning, there's a lot of feeling in it, but there's a lot of raucous laughter from the audience. And even at one point, a great sing-along. But look, let's just briefly go into... Sing-along, gasps, laughter, tears. But look, let's just briefly go into it. Sing along, gasps, laughter, tears. But the play, I guess, is fundamentally about three sisters, Hazel, Maggie and Sylvia. And, you know, it's Sylvia's wedding day, so we see her about to get married

to her Polish fiance, Marek, and they live in a working class ex-mining village in the north of England. But it's also so much more than that. How would you describe it? It is both of those things. It is a big meaty family drama and I was fascinated by a wedding because it's got so much tradition and high stakes emotion and family and all of these wonderful joyous feelings and it is also a day that completely transforms a couple's life but actually by the end of this play everybody's life in that family has been changed forever. No spoilers. I know we've got to be very careful. So that is

the big personal juicy saga. The play is also set in a part of the country which has got really rich fault lines politically. This is a place, as you say, it used to be coal mining, it's been de-industrialised, there's now a sports direct warehouse there, there's been an influx in the last 15 years of immigration from being pretty much non-existent before. And it's a place of change and it's a place where it had one identity and it doesn't quite know what its new identity is, how to step into the future and I find that really interesting. My town was one of those ones where it

voted conservative for the first time and recently voted reform for the first time, voted for Brexit, and the fascinating thing and the wonderful thing about theatre is you get to sit with these characters, ten people across all ages, from a seven-year-old to a 70-year-old, for two hours to experience their world and them living it, which is different to reading about these people in a newspaper article, isn't it? I think that's completely true, and actually when I was sitting there last night, you really are taken into people's lives.

And what I thought was so interesting is you make no judgment about the characters in there. And there are comments that are said that are perhaps not the most politically correct, but you do, but they're said with feeling and they're said with heart. And you understand for that moment in time where people are coming from and they're, you know, again, no spoilers away, but there is a, there's a line that really stuck with me from last night where I think I know which it is. The bride where she says, you know, if you hold a piece of me in your heart, then you have to hold a piece of my fiance. And if you can't do that, then you have to hold a piece of my fiance. And if you can't do that, then you can't hold me.

And I just thought it's interesting because why did you feel drawn to write about this? Because it will resonate across the country, I think. Yes, because even though this is a very, very small town and a small place, it has this huge, big political state of the nation story to tell. And I feel like there's a lot of divisiveness and stark contrasts of one side or another side. And again, the beauty of seeing people's lives and seeing the best version of themselves, actually, seeing them at their most hilarious and excited and joyous,

and then also at the worst of themselves. But it's, it's, you go on the journey with them throughout. And just to say about you feeling so in it, I do think as well, because we have reconfigured the theatre completely, this is the first time this theatre's ever looked this way, where we've built on stage seating and I mean you are there, there are 900 people in that auditorium that night and they feel like they're at the wedding. Bring your fascinator girls! Yes, I mean you picked a... a wedding really does reveal all, doesn't it? It does.

I mean, you're at a heightened moment of stress. Exactly, and everybody wants to be on their best behaviour, but as soon as you start bringing out pints and then vodka on top, I mean, that's it, we're off, aren't we? So yes, it's mascara running at 2am. Well, look, we have a clip and I do want to play it. Let's hear a little bit from the play. Lovely. It's Auntie Carol. What's she doing here? How you doing sugar tips? Well with the weather for it, it's roasting outside. Hello my little flower, where's the

bride? Where's the bride, how you feeling? I bet you've not slept. Oh Maggie love I didn't see you there. You've lost weight Don't look at me. I feel as fat as a bacon pig I've gained two pounds. It's all gone on me knockers. Can I shift it? Can I act? I've had to completely rethink me outfit. I had this beautiful dress from Peacock's I had this beautiful dress from Peacock's. Lemon maxi scoop neck. I put it on. I felt all top of it on me. When did you get here, love? This morning. Oh, then I slip as I silver.

Go on then, flower, I will have that tea. What are you, what? I were at home and I thought, what am I doing sat here? I thought, if your mam was here, and I know she what am I doing sat here? I thought if your man was here, and I know she'll be looking down on us today, you'd be getting ready together. I didn't want you feeling like you'd missed out. Well that was Lucy Black playing Hazel, Aisling Loftus as Maggie, Dorothy Atkinson as Auntie

Cowell and Sinead Matthews as Sylvia. There are so many layers as we've just about, you know, we're just delving into it a little bit in that play but this at its heart is a big family drama with strong female leads but you focus specifically on the relationship between sisters and three of them. Why that female relationship? I mean I do love writing women. I think sisterhood is a fascinating dynamic. I've been, I fell in love with Chekhov I have to say. Just before I started writing this play I really fell deeply in love with his

four great great master piece family dramas and of course one of those has Three Sisters and I wasn't aware that that was influencing me but it it certainly was and I love I love different generations in a play I love the fact that Auntie Carol is this character who absolutely eats the stage and has the audience eating out of her hand. And it's a role for a woman in her sixties. I love the fact that we've got a younger sister,

a middle sister, an older sister. We've got a teenage girl. We've got a five-year-old. You know, it is beautiful that anybody can come and see something where they're at in life, you know? There's older generational love story, there's all, it's all in the mix isn't it? It is and I have to say Auntie Cal was for me my favourite character last night. And you rarely see women, you know, potty-mouthed, laying it bare with a bit

of heart and saying things how, you saying things how it is to them and having the confidence to do that. Was she purely fictional or was she based on someone in real life? I mean she's basically me, depending on the day. She, I mean she is me, she is my mother, she's my aunties. You know, I never understand this phrase larger than life because there is no such thing. I come from a family of incredibly exuberant, brilliant, forceful, passionate, intense women.

And I feel very excited about bringing those kind of characters to the stage which I mean genuinely it feels at times like a hurricane I mean you were there last night like that audience laughter is insane at times. It is, it is. I mean you know there's a point and again no spoilers which is quite heart-wrenching and and it's it's quite sad and then Auntie Carol comes in with this one-liner and you have people start laughing. And like I said, I've never seen an audience do a big sing-along as well in the middle of a play. It was great. Listen folks, you get your money's worth. Look, let me ask you,

because like I said, you came to this later in life, you started to write, and in a way I wonder, you know, did that take an extraordinary amount of self-confidence and belief and how did you sort of battle this? Was it an easy journey? It certainly took a lot of tenacity and it also took a lot of naivety. I mean basically I, so I had never written. Sometimes you meet writers and they talk about you know writing under the duvet at night when they were 12 years old. That was absolutely not me. Never even occurred to me that I'd be a writer. At the time I was waitressing, that was my job. And I had been to the theatre a lot of the time I went to see a classic with somebody famous from the television in it. I never left thinking oh my god and then I went to see this brand new play

in the West End and it was David Harrow's Blackbird and within 15 minutes I thought this is the most exciting night of my life and by the end of the play, so another 60 minutes after that, I honestly left the theatre feeling inside myself that I could do it. Wow, so it was just that one play that gave you that self-confidence? I just, there was something that clicked and I went, I can do this. Did you tell anyone? I mean, it's a good job I didn't because I think people would have said, I don't think you possibly can.

But what it meant was that, of course no I couldn't do it, but I fell in love with it. And I spent the next year pretty much waitressing by night, writing by day, and I wrote my first play. And I submitted it to the Royal Court and I got on their writers program and then actually it's been an easier journey than I thought to be honest because I did get my first play on. So I was expecting to be writing in my bedroom for at least seven years. But now you're seeing your play in the West End.

I've gone from the bedroom to the haymarket. It's pretty good isn't it? Beth Steele what a pleasure thank you so much. Thank you for coming last night. Thank you. Oh no I wouldn't have missed it for the world I was so glad that I did. Oh thank you very much thank you. That was Beth Steele until the stars come down is now on at the Theatre Royal Haymarket until the 27th of... She was the epitome of elegance. She was the epitome of mystery, intrigue and beauty. One of the 20th century's most amazing characters, a Hollywood sex symbol whose story you might think you already know.

Hedy Lamarr, the film star, but there's another side to her story. She was an inventor at heart. Her scientific contribution, no other star has been able to match. We really should put her into the limelight she deserves. From the BBC World Service, Untold Legends, Hedy Lamarr. Listen now wherever you get your BBC podcasts. September. Now, I've been asking you what films inspired you or had a momentous impact on you.

And lots of you have been writing in. Natalie says a film that touched my romantic heart was definitely Armelie. Every time I sit in the cinema in the dark, sneaking a peek at the audience, I think about Armelie and how much I loved her romantic ways and I hope to fall in love in the same way. Oh, Natalie, I hope that for you as well. And Gemma's written in and says, I have a couple of films, OK? A Room with a View.

I used to watch this as a girl imagining I was young Honeychurch. The Railway Children. I still quote Daddy, my daddy, when I see him and I'm nearly 50. I also listen to the audiobooks of these on BBC Sounds. They will stay with me forever. These films, they really do. They're seminal moments. Izzy Smith has also written in and she says, my French A-level teacher took six of us in an old minibus from our school in Essex to the cinema in Oxford Street to watch Le Grand Mone, sorry gosh you can tell I didn't do very well at French at school, from the book by Alan Fournier, my first ever

French movie, incredible, I wept all the way home in the minibus and have been obsessed with French films ever since. Well of course the reason I'm asking you this is because we were talking earlier about Ben Delight Becken. Because when you think of sporting films, especially ones that challenge multiple conventions, it is the one that does spring to mind for a lot of people. And it's really hard to believe that it hit our screens more than 20 years ago. Jess Brammer went to avoid her seek parents disapproval over her football obsession. She hid the fact that she joined the local female football team. Well, I've got director Gurinder Chatter in the studio with me now and she's

turned her attention to another sport, women's cricket. Gurinder, a very warm welcome to Women's Hour. Good morning. Now you've come up with this trailer to coincide with the summer's matches between England and India and it's a sort of Hollywood style trailer. Albeit with your signature sense of humour, let's just give our listeners a flavour of it. India women. She's connected this one. Go on. Jordan the Magister. A dramatic rivalry. Renew. Become and be part of history. That trailer is super exciting. It's almost done like it's advertising a Hollywood

film. Just tell us why did you want to do it and why did you want to do it about cricket? Well when the England and Wales cricket board approached me they wanted to shine a light on the fact that the women's teams of India and England were also playing as series and normally it's the men's team that gets all the attention and for me this was a fantastic opportunity to again shine a light on women and sport which is something obviously I'm so passionate about. So I said, yes, let's do it, but let's have fun with it. Let's have a fun trailer. And that's exactly

what we did. So we worked with some of the team and we were at Lord's and we did quite tongue in cheek kind of movie style trailer. But like the movie, I wanted these women to look powerful and strong on screen. So we did lots of great close up shots. We had a little bit of humor. We had in the Lord's long room, we had a big spread like you do with your Victoria sandwiches, sorry, Victoria cakes and cucumber sandwiches. And samosas as well. Exactly. We had focora, samosas and the idea was to just really drum up excitement so people knew that there were matches with women as well this summer. You said you're sort of a sports fan, what's your relationship with cricket?

So my relationship with cricket really goes back to my childhood when my father was a massive cricket fan, like so many of our dads, right? And my memories are of him sitting in the living room on the floor, not even on the sofa, on the floor in a string vest, no no turban on, his hair down and just glued to the TV. And I remember Bishan Singh Bedi was the Indian spin bowler at the time and he was a Sikh. And my dad was just like so proud and excited. And my mom would be going, we've run out of chapati flour, we need to go to the shops. And he'd go, no, no, no, no, no, we can't, we can't. And so there'd be these arguments.

But like literally for hours he would be sat there watching. But that palpable excitement of watching a sport with so much national pride and love really has stayed with me. So for me, cricket always reminds me of my dad. And of course in Bend It Like Beckham, her dad was a big cricket fan and played cricket. And there's that very kind of poignant moment where he says when he came to England he wanted to play cricket and he was kind of laughed out of it and people made fun of his turban. I think a lot of people will remember that. Yes, I mean it was a tough time for Sikhs back in the 60s and even 70s.

If you had a turban and a beard, people just didn't accept you. Well, you know, you're of Indian heritage, you are also British, and I feel like we cannot talk about cricket without, you know, mentioning the kind of controversial phrase that Norman Tebbit coined back in the early 90s, I think, you know, the cricket test. And I find this fascinating because he obviously meant, you know, people of South Asian descent or Afro-Caribbean descent supporting their country of origin over England and seeing that as a sort of test of loyalty. And I've got friends born in this country of South Asian descent and it's very interesting because some of them are adamant England supporters, you know, and I've got others who are, who will support India or Sri Lanka. And there's

quite good humor. I just wondered where you sat on that. You know, what's amazing is look how much Britain has changed since Norman Tebbit said his failures could be. I think in 2018 he did row back on it. Well, he had to really because England is a combination of so many cultures and nationalities now. But the great thing about cricket, I find, is it's a party. When you go to Lords or the Oval or wherever, it's a party.

And whoever is playing, whether it's England or India, you might have Indian shirts on or England shirts on or whatever. You might have an Indian doll drum or you might have an English drum. But the fans are so into the sport that even if your side's not winning, people are still loving the game. That's the difference, I think, with football. It's a fun day out. It's a fun day out. And's a fun day out and with the women it's the same

You know, I mean there's the some of the skills of the England and Indian cricket team are exceptional And I think it's it really is the love of the sport probably comes first Then all the kind of jovial national sort of support. I think I'm probably, I was going to say I'm probably the worst type of fan because I'm sort of along for the ride and I'm along for the party. Yes. But maybe that makes me a good fan. That's a good fan and the beer right. Do you think women are less tribal than men when it comes to sports? No I don't think so. Look at the Lionesses right you

know and all the all the supporters of the Lionesses, right? Wow, yes. And all the supporters of the Lionesses. Some of my best friends would be really annoyed by that. They are definitely tribal, I think. Yes, and I think we've got the Euros coming up. Who doesn't get behind their national team? Whether it's men or women, I mean, people do. I mean, I remember when the Linus has won the Euros,

I was ecstatic, ecstatic. It was fantastic. And football was coming home and we were all so proud and I remember, you know, in Dear England, the wonderful play that was on at the Prince Edward's Back, Gareth, you know, the manager. And there is a bit in the play, I was there at the Prince Edward's Back Gareth, you know, the manager, and there is a bit in the play, I was there at the press night and there's a bit in the play where he, the play focuses on the men's side, but there's a bit in the play where the women win a gay, a final, and then there's a bit where a woman comes and runs across the stage, and where I was sitting a lot of people turned to me and clapped at me.

And I was like, oh my God, this is amazing. So I think really, for me, women and sport is often not celebrated in the way that it should, which is why I made Bend It Like, Bekia. Well, I was gonna say, because that came out 23 years ago, which to me, it feels a bit like yesterday. But it is a lifetime ago and especially now when you compare it to the Lionesses and the huge

excitement around them. I mean there's so many great lines from Bend It Like Beckham because women's football was not seen as something to be really interested in. I mean the coach, you know, only coaches them because he's had an injury and can't really play. Yeah, people used to laugh at me when I was trying to get that film together. People were like, this is a joke, right? Women playing football? You know, and an Indian girl playing football as well. Even worse, yeah. Does it surprise you that it's still such a beloved film or do you?

It surprises me that it's had so much love for so many years, you know, it's 23 years now and now there's whole new generations that watch it and discover it because it kind of hasn't dated in that respect and that's a sad statement for women in sport, I think, that girls still, you know, relate to the fact that they want to do something that society thinks isn't for them. And the great thing is, is yeah, we see women on TV, you know, in terms of the cricket series now, as well as football. But I think there are still places where women still struggle to play because it is still seen as a man's sport. Which is why I wanted to do the trailer for the England and Wales Cricket Board, you know, just to bring attention to the fact that come and support these players because they're exceptional.

Well, you know, as people can see when they watch the cricket trailer and, you know, Bend It Like Beckham, you know, your films at their heart are, they're extremely entertaining, they're comedic, they laugh out loud, but there are some very serious themes running through them, especially I guess in terms of building understanding between different communities. So you know, yes, we've spoken about Bend It Like Beckham, but Blinded by the Light, you know, that's inspired by the life of Safras Mansour, a young Muslim boy growing up in Luton who is obsessed in love with the lyrics of Bruce Springsteen. Over your film career you have put across positive messages of inclusivity and overcoming differences between

communities and kind of the shared values and how we can laugh not at each other but with each other about them. I wonder how you feel about the Britain you see today and really the power of film to bridge these divides and foster community. Well, interestingly, earlier in the program, you were talking about films that have influenced you and I was thinking about me and some of the,

the first film I remember being really struck by was Cathy Come Home. You know I remember seeing that as a child and that power of when the social workers take Kathy's babies away I was just horrified as a child. So I understand the power of film. Kez was another one and then later in years Car Wash. I you remember car wash nothing car wash oh my god what an amazing ensemble film about the black community in Los Angeles so lots of little lots of vignettes stories of what that community was going through at that time all done to music and a great soundtrack so you know it was building for me, you know, even before I watched those films not knowing I was ever going to be a filmmaker. So I think for me, film really

does shine a light on who we are as a nation, as a race, as humans, you know, because we all share the same emotions, regardless of where we're from and film reduces us to the human condition and our emotions. And so, you know, when it's done well. And so I think that, you know, I think that for me, film is an incredibly emotional visceral way of showing a multi-layered experience and shift society and Society's views which I did 23 years ago with this film but even before that with bargy on the beach and some of my other films Viceroy's house

Which was my film on partition, a very sort of human look at partition without really looking at non-secular violence and stuff. So I find film a very sophisticated way to appeal to people. Well look, I can't let you go without asking this and I fear you'll answer slightly. Will we ever see a Bend It Like Beckham 2? Well, I'm afraid you're gonna have to wait on that. Oh, that's more positive than I thought. Oh gosh, I'm a cliffhanger. Right now I'm here to talk about cricket.

I know, but there will be people listening. He'll go, is she going to do Bend It Like Beckham 2? And will we see Jess or possibly even Jess's daughter? Who knows? Yes, but Beckham is 50 now, isn't he? That's true, you don't have to find someone else. No, let's see, I'll never say never, I'll never say never, but you know, when you've made a film that so many people love, it's really hard to come up with a sequel that will not disappoint, because what you don't want to do is ruin the magic, you know, in

the bottle that you already have. So you better come up with something really great, otherwise leave it alone. Well on that cliffhanger, we shall end it. But Garinda Chaddard, thank you very much for coming. Thank you. Now, the musical icon Angelique Kidjo has become the first black African performer to be selected for a star on the prestigious Hollywood Walk of Fame. Kidjo has become the first black African performer to be selected for a star on the prestigious Hollywood Walk of Fame. Kidjo who comes from the West

African country of Benin and has won five Grammy Awards was among the 35 names announced as part of the Walk of Fame's Class of 2026 list. And here to discuss it is journalist and broadcaster Kate Hutchinson. Kate, hello! Hello from Wimbledon. Hi, that was a very very catchy song. Tell us a little bit about Angelique's background. How did she get into music? Oh, she's such a towering force in contemporary music. I love Angelique. She's one of the African continent's most recognisable and celebrated musicians but she started her career as young as eight in her mother's theater. She got a standing ovation for performing a song.

And then she had high school band where she sort of genres exploded for her. She was really moving across lots of different genres and lots of languages as well. She could speak a lot of languages. So in her high school band, they were doing Cameroonian Mokossa, they were taking influence from France like French Yay Yay, and they were also covering

Miriam Makeba from South Africa and her incredible pop music. She should also have a star, I think. So after her first album in Benin made her a massive star there, her family feared that the government under the dictatorship might stop her from attending school in France. So they actually actually snuck her out late night escape without official clearance because the customs officer at the airport was a fan. So when she arrived in Paris, she immersed herself in the in the music scene there. She attended jazz school and she released her first album on Island Records, Lagoza, in 1991 which sort of vaulted her to the top of the international music charts and the

rest as they say is history. And she's released 16 albums, is that right? 16 albums. She's also won a Grammy in 2021 for her album Mother Nature which featured some of the biggest African stars of the new generation. So she was sort of creating new links with the new generation, including Burnaby, Mr Easy and Samper the Great. And she's also, I mean, speaking, I think the Hollywood Walk of Fame are calling her a premier diva or something like that. Yes. It appeared in an album on one of her album covers in a zebra print catsuit. I don't think much says more

diva than that. Well how significant, I guess, is she as a performer and artist not only to Benin, but to the wider communities across the continent of Africa? Absolutely. I think, you know, she's really a sort of premier, major league, genre blaring musician, not just for Africa but for contemporary music on the whole. I mean she fuses myriad African music styles. She made an album where she went to Benin around the villages and recorded lots of musicians there and and contemporized it. But she's also working within pop music, within funk, Latin, jazz. She's done a whole album

that was a tribute to Celia Cruz, the grandmother, the mother of salsa who's celebrating her centenary this year. So she's really kind of moving across all the genres and she's also done some incredible collaborations as well. So who has she collaborated with? Right, she has worked with, get this, the militia keys, Philip Glass, Peter Gabriel and Herbie Hancock and she's done a whole Talking Heads covers album. So she's really not in this kind of very limiting box that a lot of artists sometimes from the African continent are given, in quote marks, world music box or global music. She really has a vision that goes way beyond

and is really creating connections between lots of different styles of music and lots of different artists from around the world. You can't pigeonhole her, can you? She's completely eclectic in her own way. Impossible to pigeonhole, completely eclectic and also really has laid the foundations for this new generation of African artists

who are also really, again, super eclectic and not just working within Afro beats, but they're pulling on lots and lots of different genres from pop music right now, and I think it's really exciting. What would you think that the star getting this recognition means getting a Hollywood Walk of Style? How significant is it? Hugely significant. I mean, the first black African woman to receive a Hollywood star.

I mean, of course, the first question is, why has it taken so long? So many people can receive a Hollywood star for just, you know, starring in a couple of films or looking nice on screen, I'm sure. You know, she's done so much for the international music community and I really think it's paving the way for African artists and all other genre-defying artists to come after her. And she's got a prom coming up, tell us a bit about that. Oh, I mean, well this is just another example of her genre-defying ability, you know, the fact that she's worked within all these genres and now she's going to be taking on classical. I think that's going to be

such a forward-thinking amazing thing to see her music rearranged in that way. And where do you see her going next? I mean Angelique could do anything. I would love to see her continue this amazing streak of uncovering lots of different older genres, folkloric genres, roots music from around the world. I'd love to see her do a massive, another massive collaboration album, maybe with Beyonce, let's just say Beyonce. Beyonce. What about a Beyonce team-up? What's your second one?

Oh, my second team-up for Angelique to do. I'd love to see her work with some younger, contemporary artists in the UK, maybe like Joshua Alderham who used to be in a band called Benin City. Amazing spoken word poet and a really interesting artist. I'd love to see what they create. Kate, thank you so much for joining us on Women's Hour. That was Kate Hutchinson, journalist and broadcaster. Well, you can join me. That's all for today. But you can join me tomorrow for weekend Women's Hour. We have the acclaimed actor Fiona Shaw on her latest film Hot Milk, which looks at the mother-daughter carer-patient dynamic.

As well as that, we've got fashion designer Amy Powney, who has made it her mission to make us really think about sustainable clothing. Join me tomorrow just after four. That's all for today's Woman's Hour. Join us again next time. Hello, it's Lucy Worsley here and we're back with a brand new series of Lady Swindlers. Here we are in cell number one. I'm just shutting us in, Ross.

Wow. Following in the footsteps of some all new criminals. Can you take me down to the other end of Baker Street please? Totally, jump in. Thank you. Join me and my all-female team of detectives as we revisit the audacious crimes of women trying to make it in a world made for men. This is a story of working class women trying to get by.

This is survival. Lady Swindlers Season 2 with Lucy Worsley from BBC Radio 4. Listen now on BBC Sounds. She was the epitome of elegance. She was the epitome of mystery, intrigue and beauty. One of the 20th century's most amazing characters, a Hollywood sex symbol whose story you might think you already know. Hetty Lamarr, the film star. But there's another side to her story. She was an inventor at heart. Her scientific contribution, no other star has been able to match.

We really should put her into the limelight she deserves. From the BBC World Service, Untold Legends, Hetty Lamarr. Listen now wherever you get your BBC podcasts.