Woman's Hour - USA presidential elections, Down's syndrome, The forgotten history of women slaves, Young inventor

Episode Date: November 9, 2020

The US Presidential election results with Dr. Jeanne Morefield, Senior Lecturer in political theory at the University of Birmingham, and Fellow at the Quincy Institute for Responsible Statecraft, Washington, DC.A current storyline in Emmerdale is about a couple who decide to have a termination when their baby’s diagnosed with Down Syndrome. It’s a difficult decision for anyone, but some campaigners say expectant parents are routinely given outdated advice and encouraged to have a termination. Nicola Enoch who set up the support website Positive About Downs talks about her experiences and we hear from Jane Fisher who is the Director of ARC - Antenatal Results and Choices.Stella Dadzie is a teacher, writer, artist and education activist. In her new book, A Kick in the Belly: Women, Slavery & Resistance, she reveals the largely untold stories of women of African descent who, caught up in the horrors of over 400 years of slavery, were transported across the Atlantic to the sugar plantations of Jamaica and beyond. Women, who Stella reveals, were central to slave rebellions and played a vital role in developing a culture of slave resistance and liberation across the Caribbean.Betty Seabrook is the UK winner in the most recent Ideas4Ears competition for children, organised by hearing implant makers MED-EL. Her ingenious invention is a special custom helmet that Cochlear Implant users can wear with their audio processor while riding a bike. Betty got the inspiration from her family bike rides and her father Tom who couldn’t wear a helmet without taking his processor off - which could be more dangerous. Betty and Tom join Jane..Presenter: Jane Garvey Producer: Dianne McGregor

This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK. I'm Natalia Melman-Petrozzella, and from the BBC, this is Extreme Peak Danger. The most beautiful mountain in the world. If you die on the mountain, you stay on the mountain. This is the story of what happened when 11 climbers died on one of the world's deadliest mountains, K2, and of the risks we'll take to feel truly alive. If I tell all the details, you won't believe it anymore. Extreme, peak danger. Listen wherever you get your podcasts.

BBC Sounds. Music, radio, podcasts. Hello, this is Jane Garvey. This is the Woman's Hour podcast. It's still 2020, unfortunately, but it is now Monday 9th November. It's Woman's Hour. Hello, good morning. Welcome to another busy week on the programme. Today, do expectant parents get outdated advice about having a child with Down syndrome? I'll talk to Stella Dadsey, author of A Kick in the Belly, parents get outdated advice about having a child with Down syndrome.

I'll talk to Stella Dadsey, author of A Kick in the Belly, a book about women, slavery and resistance. And we'll talk to a 10-year-old award-winning inventor, Betty, on the programme a little bit later. Let's start, though, of course, in the United States. And here is Kamala Harris, the vice president-elect. I may be the first woman in this office. I will not be the last. Because every little girl watching tonight sees that this is a country of possibilities. And to the children of our country, regardless of your gender, our country has sent you a clear message.

Dream with ambition. Lead with conviction. And see yourselves in a way that others may not, simply because they've never seen it before. But know that we will applaud you every step of the way. Kamala Harris speaking, of course, in what was the early hours of our Sunday morning. Let's bring in Dr. Jeannie Moorfield, Senior Lecturer in Political Theory at the University of Birmingham and Fellow at the Quincy Institute for Responsible Statecraft in Washington, D.C. Jeannie, good morning to you. Good morning.

Let's start with Kamala Harris and tell us, first of all, who she is and what you believe she stands for. Kamala Harris is a really interesting figure and she has obviously a long career as a prosecutor in California and in the Senate. She made a run, obviously, for president on her own. And I think she'll be an interesting and hyper articulate sort of support for Joe Biden with a vision that I think is also uniquely her own.

Why didn't she get close to getting the nomination on her own and on her own in her own name, in her own right? I mean, I think there's a variety of reasons for that. One of them has to do with the fact that she wasn't really able to articulate a clear vision. Her stance on Medicare for All is illustrative of this. She has been one of the original supporters for Medicare for all, but her own proposal both put out the Medicare for all as a possibility and then sort of hedged on how you would fund it. I think there's ways that Kamala Harris tried to thread the needle between a more progressive and a more traditional democratic wing of the party that made her sort of less readable potentially for voters. Just for British ears, Medicare, we hear a lot about it. What is Medicare for All? Well, Medicare is the social welfare policy in the US for older adults over 65. It's a federally funded health care program. And what Medicare for All would

do would be to expand that existing program for all Americans. So rather than start over again and create a single payer health care system, whole hog, it would go, it would use the existing Medicare system to fund what is national health care. Right. It seems to us to be something approximating the NHS. Why do so many people in the States feel so passionately that it's wrong? Well, I think that number is getting smaller, but I think that the United States has no experience of a national health care system. And we have a huge insurance industry that has a lot at stake in keeping the funding for insurance the way that it is. And as you know, we also have no real caps on election funding. And so there are a lot of lobbyists who are actively lobbying both parties

to not do what Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren and a variety of other politicians were asking for. Well, you mentioned Elizabeth Warren. She's one of a number of names that are important, but somebody that mustn't be forgotten in all this in terms of Kamala Harris's success is a woman called Stacey Abrams. Now, what should we know about her? Stacey Abrams is a remarkable political figure. She is from Georgia. She, of course, made a run for governor in 2018. You probably remember that she lost that race narrowly in part because her country was to bring in more voters and expand the coalition between white progressives and people of color. And it worked. And Georgia is now trending blue because of Stacey Abrams' vision. She could have slunk away after 2018,

started to work, you know, write a book or work for something else. And she didn't. She threw her heart and soul into this. And it's amazing. It's about, in her case, it was about getting the vote out and making particularly women of colour believe they had a stake in this. Absolutely. Absolutely. And I think Stacey Abrams, Kamala Harris,

having the two of them in such prominent positions is incredibly important for motivating women and women of colour in particular to become more active in politics. And both Stacey Abrams and Kamala Harris went to historically black colleges. So this is a really interesting new era for women of color and black women in particular in America. What we also need to acknowledge, and this is very important, we know millions, around 70 million people put their faith in President Trump. And we need to be absolutely clear about this, that more women than last time, certainly more white women than last time, picked President Trump, who has been accused by many, many people of being effectively an arch misogynist. But still, women went for him.

Now, why might they believe he was their best option? I mean, it's interesting. And I wonder what Democrats have predicted, which is that there would be a huge sort of following of people who really believe that he is going to save them. So the whole QAnon conspiracy, which is huge, has a huge population of women involved in it, it really believes that behind all of the floundering, Trump is actually going to save everyone from the worst things in the world. So I wonder if the insecurity of Covid actually contributed to women's decision to vote for him. I don't know. we should give the QAnon conspiracy, although it is worth saying that somebody who actually, I think, campaigned on that ticket effectively has been elected and a woman. Yeah, yeah. Marjorie Taylor Greene was elected to Congress and is an explicit QAnon follower.

Yeah. I mean, for anybody listening in Britain who honestly doesn't know what QAnon is, can you briefly outline what these people believe? I mean, it is a massive conspiracy theory that essentially believes that Obama, the Clintons, and most of the democratic establishment are involved in a massive child sex trafficking ring, and that the person who will save all of us is President Trump. And I mean, it is factually crazy. It's related to anti-mask wearing. It's related to anti-vaxxing. But it's a very complicated, wildly popular theory

that definitely played some role in this election. Yes, and many people, although they might find that uncomfortable, I suppose we all need to be very aware of it. played some role in this election. Yes. And many people, although they might find that uncomfortable, I suppose we all need to be very aware of it. So what about the support that President Trump did lose? As you say, it was actually counterintuitively white men who turned against President Trump. Yeah, I mean, this is an interesting, fewer white men voted for Trump than last time. They still voted for him. It was split pretty much 50-50 between Biden and Trump this time in terms of the white vote.

Again, I have to think that the handling of the coronavirus has something to do with it. The people's fear about the economy. But again, you know, I think democratic pollsters and political scientists are going to be parsing through what happened in this election for a long time. One of the things we have learned is that massive turnout doesn't necessarily benefit Democrats in the way that has traditionally been believed. And what will a President Biden and a Vice President Harris be able to offer women? Something that American women have never had is maternity rights, certainly in a way that European women would understand them. Is that likely to change? Well, they have. Actually,

this is one of the things that Kamala Harris was more progressive on in her own platform. She was advocating for a six month federal paid maternity leave. Biden has advocated for a 12 week. It's not maternity leave. They're couching it as family leave. And I think that so they're now behind this idea that we could possibly have a 12 week family leave, but that would have to get past the Senate. And so, again, all eyes are on Georgia, right? If, in fact, these two special elections go the way that they do, then Kamala Harris would end up being the tie-breaking vote in the Senate, which would give her even more power in this next couple of years. So it's an interesting time. There could be change in that front, but only if the Senate changes. And that we'll have to wait and see until after January 5th. And Jeannie, just a brief word from you on other women who might play a pivotal role in the administration, names like Elizabeth Warren, you've already mentioned. Could she get a job? And what about Susan Rice? I think that for both Rice and Warren, it will again depend on the Senate,

right? And whether both of them are controversial names and loathed is not too strong of a word among Republicans. So whether or not that confirmation could happen there, I mean, there are other ways that Biden could do it, but a lot of it's going to depend on that. And a lot of it, I think Rice is a natural for Biden. They have certain affinities in terms of foreign policy. I think Warren, if Warren does get become Secretary of the Treasury, that will be signaling that the Biden administration is more willing to really confront the kinds of structural economic changes that she stands for, then currently they're signaling.

So it's going to depend on whether or not they decide to run to the right or run to the left. Right. And I don't know if you like the occasional bet, but what price, Jeannie, Ivanka Trump against Kamala Harris in 2024? I don't, I really don't think so. I mean, I don't think so because I don't think she's popular enough, frankly. And they just, there was an independent poll that just came out

that said that she'd even fared worse than her brother among potential Republicans, reporters, voters. So I would doubt it. And, you know, there's every chance, even if she's pardoned, that she might be facing state charges. It's interesting. And, you know, there's every chance, even if she's pardoned, that she might be facing state charges. It's interesting. And, you know, it'll be really interesting to see how much Biden lets Kamala Harris take the lead in the next four years. I think he knows that that's the right thing to do. It'll be interesting to watch it play out. Certainly will. Thank you very much, Dr. Jeannie Moorfield, senior lecturer in political theory at the University of Birmingham now to Stella Dadsey best known for being a co-writer of a book called the heart of the race black women's lives that came out in the 1980s her new book is called a kick in the belly women

slavery and resistance and in this book she tells the mainly untold stories of women of African descent who over 400 years of slavery were taken across the Atlantic to the sugar plantations of Jamaica and, of course, far, far beyond. Stella, good morning to you. Welcome to the programme. Good morning, Jane. Now, tell me, first of all, let's get the title discussed initially, A Kick in the Belly. Where does that come from? OK, well, the title comes from a diary entry by an absentee planter who is called Monk Lewis. And he had estates on Jamaica on both ends of the island. And he refers to having witnessed black women being abused on both of his estates and concludes that he's entitled to say that black women are kicked in the belly from one end of the island to the other and I don't know

about you Jane but when I think about being kicked in the belly I think you know my response is to want to hug myself because it really is the locus of our life cycle it's it from everything from menstruation through to menopause so um to my mind calling the book that was a way of showing the assault that was made on enslaved black women and the title worked well for me as a metaphor for all the traumas that they experienced how long have you wanted to write this book for, Stella? Oh, that's a long time. It started as an MA thesis and I was very privileged in 1985, I think it was, to spend a year at SOAS doing postgraduate research and really immerse myself in a year of trying to find all those invisible women. At the time, I was simply focusing on women in Jamaica and looking mainly at what was happening on the plantations. And it always seemed to me that it was a story that should be told more widely.

So it was on my to-do list when I retired. It was one of the things I wanted to do. I guess it's a story that needed to be told. But the question up until very recently was, well, who's interested in hearing about it? Well, yes, that too. I think within the black communities, there's always been an interest in this history. If I think about my own experience, I was a child of the civil rights and eagerly supported the African liberation struggles on the African continent in the 70s. And that sparked an interest in a quest that continues to this day, really, to find out how we came to this particular position in history. But yes, it's a story that needs to be told. And if you think about even stories about slavery, quite often women are airbrushed out of the picture. You write, and I think this is really important, about African women before the ships started to take the people away. That's very important to you, isn't it? Yes, it is. It is important. I think, you know, the context is that we're often

presented with an image of women who arrive naked with nothing but themselves to address the horrors that they were going to encounter. But actually, if you think about Africa, the continent that they came from, it was a huge mixture of societies at different stages of development, some huge empires, some isolated tribal communities. And whenever you hear mention of those societies, you hear about some very fearsome and feisty black women, women like Anna Nzinga, who ruled for as long as Queen Elizabeth I did, and who was a flea in the Portuguese ear for something like 35 years. And other unnamed women whose names't a trivial act, actually, but there was a domestic servant who would go about her business in a, just in a somewhat belligerent fashion,

she would quite deliberately not open all the blinds, even though that was essentially her job. Yeah, I love stories like that. And I loved unearthing them, because what it suggests is a whole climate of resistance that was subtle and sometimes understated, but was there. And if you look at the punishment records, there are countless reports of women who malingered or who were accused of laziness or who simply refused to comply. And even though that might not have been always a conscious act, it reflects the kind of culture that you see expressed in a lot of the stories. Do you think this is a book that should be in schools and that this part of our history, our British history, needs to be properly taught and in a detailed, explicit way to ensure that it doesn't and couldn't happen again? I do, Jane. I think for many years I've campaigned around what is now referred to as decolonising the curriculum. But really, I see as the task ahead of us of unearthing all those

hidden histories. There is a danger, I think, in referring to black history as if it's something separate. And I think that's part of the problem. It needs to be integrated. It needs to be mainstream. And I would go so far as to say it needs to enter other areas of the curriculum as well as history. But when we're talking about how we teach these issues,

there needs to be a re-emphasis. I've come across quite often stories of teachers who teach it as a story of victimhood. I think it's important to dwell on the act of resilience and resistance that this story represents, because we're here, we're telling the tale. And not only that, we're expressing that through dance, through music and through other cultural forms that are testimony to a real story of survival. Some of the women are. Well, I mean, we should when you say I absolutely appreciate what you say about not becoming only victims in this story. But the cruelty, the savagery is appalling. And I think we all just have to acknowledge that. Certainly white people need to acknowledge it. Certainly people like me who grew up in Liverpool have to acknowledge it. But we need to also be clear that

there was brilliant resistance action and activity by women of colour in these places. And they aren't known and they're not celebrated. Where are the statues? They're not on stamps, are they? I'm sorry, I'm now talking more than you, which is clearly wrong in the circumstances. But then we get the abolition story again couched in terms of the white men who ended slavery. Yes. And I think part of the purpose of this book is to correct that narrative. We've had an endless stream of films from Hollywood focusing on men like William Wilberforce. And it's only recently that we've seen the story of Harriet Tubman, which gives us

a corrective to that narrative. Definitely, from their small acts of resistance to their overt rebellions, Black women were central to the story of resistance. And if you focus on issues like the need to encourage Black women to produce the next generation of enslaved people once the Atlantic slave trade was abolished, then what you see in the demography is that women found ways to scupper that project. Yes, just explain more about that. What did they do? Well, it's interesting, you know, as I said, they didn't arrive simply naked. They arrived with all kinds of ideas about sense and role and their place in society. And they arrived with a knowledge of herbs and plants and local flora and fauna. to women using abortions, women who refused to give birth to that generation of slaves. Now, that's reinforced, as I say, by the demographic data that shows that despite efforts to ameliorate conditions for enslaved black women, the birth rate continued to plummet. And it's only when you begin to see emancipation on the horizon, that the birth rate begins to rise again.

It's almost as if black women gave themselves permission to give birth to the next generation. Just very briefly, Stella, you mentioned that these stories are hidden. So I suppose I've got to ask, how did you find them? Well, I think it's fair to say that, you know, I started this piece of work as a piece of academic research. And as any academic knows, when you start to look within your own field, who's writing about stuff, eventually you find them. There were a huge there was a large number of West Indian historians who were already beginning to unearth the data, revisiting the plantation records, looking at the court records, looking at the diaries and the letters, the newspapers and other primary sources to unearth that story. Women like Lucille Maturin Mare, Barbara Bush, Olive Senior, men like Hilary Beckles. There's a number of people that we could

name. And I have to say that this book stands really very humbly on their shoulders. But, of course, 30 years on when I revisited it, obviously now I have access to the Internet. I have access to academic papers uploaded almost as fast as you can breathe. And I wanted to expand the book geographically as well as in terms of its scope. So the materials out there, there's a lot of primary sources in the British Library, in the Maritime Museums, in the archives at Kew. And as I say, there's a lot of books out there. Unfortunately, those books tend to be focused as an academic audience.

Well, I was going to say, yeah. Sorry. No, it's just really important to emphasise your book is immensely readable. Thank you. And really interesting. Stella, thank you very much. Thank you, Jane.

I really appreciate it. Stella Dadsey, author of A Kick in the Belly, Women, Slavery and Resistance. Now, if you watch Emmerdale, you might well know that one of the current storylines is about a couple who decide to have a termination when their baby is diagnosed with Down syndrome. Nicola Enoch is somebody who set up a support website called Positive About Downs and Jane Fisher is from the group Antenatal Results and Choices. And Jane, we should say that I know your group has been advising Emmerdale, hasn't it? What exactly have you said to them? We have, and I'd like to say up front that they came to us with the storyline. They'd already decided that the two characters were going to make this decision. And they came to us because they knew that we had experience of supporting many, many women and couples through this very difficult decision.

I'll admit I was nervous when they first came to us because it's a soap and you always think that soaps go for the dramatic angle. But having seen the scripts, they've handled it in such a sensitive way. I've been really impressed by that. They're showing the complex reality for couples in this circumstance. We should say that Emmerdale already has a character who has Down syndrome, Leo. That's right. Yes. And that makes it all the more poignant.

Yes, absolutely. Go on, tell me, you were going to say something else, I think. Just that, as I say, we didn't really have to advise too much on the script because they'd really thought it through. They'd really looked at it from every angle and the couple are shown to agonise over this decision. We see how harrowing it is for them that they don't make it lightly as no couple does in the context of prenatal diagnosis. They really think about how they feel about it as a couple, for their family, as individuals. So it's very, very sensitively done. The storyline is in development now. I think it will actually be broadcast in a couple of weeks time but what we do know Jane is

that the vast majority of pregnancies where Down syndrome is identified do end in termination. Now why does that happen? I don't know if it's a question about why it happens I think the important thing to us at ARC is that women couples who have that diagnosis have access to all the information they need the support they need to make the decision that's right for them they have to live with a decision and as an organization we signpost to the Down Syndrome Association because they've over 50 years experience of supporting families living with people with Down syndrome.

Families go to them. They think about what it might mean for them as a family, for their future. And they make their own decision. And I don't think we should be talking about what particular decision they make. We need to support their choice, whatever that might be. Nicola, from Positive About Downs, I think your real concern is about the language used in some circumstances by some medical staff tell me more about that. That's right well I know from my own personal experience and that of hundreds if not thousands of women who I'm in

contact with that there is the medical narrative is biased against Down syndrome. The whole screening process, the language around it, that women are advised of the risk of having one of these babies, that babies with Down syndrome are portrayed as something to be feared. It's very similar to your previous speaker. They're sort of presented as a person, that Down syndrome as being a separate entity. And certainly when my son was born, that felt very much the case to me.

I come from a position where I was of the view that I would terminate. My husband and I had spoken about it. We paid for private tests. And to this day, I'm very grateful that they weren't more accurate because I was booked in for an amniocentesis based on some scans. And it was only because I'd suffered miscarriages prior to earlier that I decided to cancel that amnio. But the whole narrative, the assumption was that I would terminate. And we've, PADS have conducted an extensive survey of 1,400 women who've had a baby with Down syndrome in the UK. And that corroborates not just my experience, but these women I hear. And so I come from the view that I absolutely understand the pressures a woman's put under when she discovers baby may have or has Down syndrome.

From society, there's this narrative, and as I say, from the medical profession. And the information and support doesn't exist, which is why Positive About Down Syndrome, I formed it three years ago, because what women really need to know is the lived experience. What will life look like? Yes, what is your life? Well, it's not that different to anyone else's. And this is what, you know, Down syndrome is often presented as just a list of medical potential issues.

No context, just presented, you know, and it's quite daunting and overwhelming. But the reality is, you know, my son's 16. He's at secondary school. He has a wonderful life. he supports West Brom I despair to think you know how many women are left making life death decisions without the information and support they deserve you know I look at Tom and I wonder how I could ever have thought my life would be better without him because he's enriched my life. And I think this is our concern also, that there's this sort of single story is presented.

Right. And of course, I don't want to interrupt you at all, but I feel, of course, we have to acknowledge, Nicola, this is, as you've indicated, a very individual decision and an individual set of circumstances isn't it you it absolutely is you know and i completely i respect you know a woman's choice whether she chooses to terminate a pregnancy because baby has down syndrome or whatever criteria ultimately you know a woman can terminate any pregnancy i don't think this is so much about the termination it's about why you know jane said it isn't about why.

I think it is. Why are women, so many women choosing to terminate? And I know from my experience and that of many others, it's because of how Down syndrome is presented. Yeah. There's fear. OK, let me put that to Jane. What do you think about that, Jane? Well, obviously, I agree wholeheartedly with Nicola

that we'd never want women to be pressured, for assumptions to be made about how they might behave. And, of course, they must have balanced information about what living with the condition might mean. I struggle a bit with the idea that they make a decision based on that's what doctors have told them and that's why they terminate. I think women have agency here

and they think through what it means for them, and they do their research. They don't, in our experience, anyway, obviously I can only talk about the women that come to our helpline at ARC, they do their research. We, as I say, refer to the Down Syndrome Association. They weigh things up,

and it is a really painful and harrowing process, and they come to a decision within their personal context that feels the best they can do in those circumstances. But it's worth mentioning I think because this is related a mother of a child with Down syndrome and a woman in her 20s with Down syndrome have got permission from the High Court to have a landmark case heard against the UK government over the current law which allows termination up to birth for Down syndrome. Now I want to get your view on that Nicola if you can please. Well I think the problem is that sets the whole tone that you know whilst I was pregnant with my daughter she would have been when I was pregnant she was, but Tom wasn't. And that all permeates through into the medical narrative.

And it makes people think, gosh, Down syndrome's that bad that, you know, you can terminate to birth. And women are put under pressure, you know, and clearly that's wrong. And the problem, you know, our community has great concern about the storyline with Emmerdale. We completely accept that women who terminate their voices need to be heard. But promoting it or choosing rather to use Down syndrome as the cause rather than perhaps a generic life limiting condition, because Down syndrome is not life limiting. Far from it. Just, again permeates that that single story narrative yes and also i think

we have to think about the impact of people with down syndrome their friends and family you know the day after that story shown my son will go to a large secondary school where kids will have watched that or their parents will watch it and i'd like to know what consideration because no one from the Down syndrome community was consulted right but we do need to say Nicola of course that Emmerdale does have a character with Down syndrome and has had for some time but just that's right let me get the view of Jane on that point about the action in the High Court yeah I mean I'd like to just take things away from Down syndrome for a moment because that the action in the High Court could have a knock-on effect to women in very, very difficult circumstances with late diagnoses in pregnancy.

At the moment, your listeners may be aware, there is a clause in the law that enables later terminations of pregnancy, so after 24 weeks, in cases when something serious is being picked up. Now, these are very few, but they're very compelling. And most vast majority of cases of Down syndrome are picked up earlier in pregnancy. And what we wouldn't want to see is a knock on effect that may impinge on the choices of women who find themselves in very, very difficult circumstances late in pregnancy. Thank you for that. Can we just talk briefly, Nicola? I mean, you're absolutely right. Down syndrome is not life limiting, but it is fair to say, isn't it, that it is life different, if you like. And people's circumstances do vary and couples have all sorts of decisions to make around other siblings and other responsibilities, don't they? Yes, but i think that's a very you know

we look at it depends on your perspective around disability i mean certainly before i had tom as i say i would have considered terminating because i had no understanding of the reality and the reality is not that different so my son has a learning disability that's the fundamental difference so you know he might not grasp algebra but it really doesn't matter we have to stop looking at what people can't do and rather look at what they can do because you know our everyday life is not that different and the vast majority of people with down syndrome you know all our families you can't read more blogs or see more videos on on social media a parent saying we're very happy with our children,

we wouldn't have them any other way. But somehow or another, you know, it's all dismissed and presented as being problems and burdens and all this nonsense, which our lives are far from that. Our lives are enriched by having people with Down syndrome in them because they bring a whole new perspective, a different dimension. Nicola, thank you very much. Nicola Enoch has set up the support website

Positive About Downs, our best to her and to Tom and to West Brom, I think, who need a bit of good luck this season, and to Jane Fisher from Antenatal Results and Choices. A statement from the Royal College of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists said, screening tests are offered to all women in pregnancy to try and find health conditions that could affect them or their baby. Women should

always get results in a neutral and unbiased way. Now to award-winning Betty Seabrook from Cheshire who's the UK winner of a competition for children organised by hearing implant makers Med-El. Betty has invented a helmet, a special custom helmet, that cyclists who are cochlear implant users can wear with their audio processor. Now, Betty's 10 and she was inspired by her family bike rides and her dad, Tom, who couldn't wear his helmet without taking his processor off. Well, my dad is deaf and he has to wear like a cochlear implant on his head. And we go cycling a lot and he can't wear a helmet over his implant. So he has to choose

either whether to hear or whether to wear a helmet. And I was like, why can't he do both? So I just like created something where he could do both. Were you worried about your dad when he was out on his bike? Yeah, because if he fell over, he could hurt his head really badly. And it could really hurt him. Or if he got crashed into by a a car it could really hurt his head. Is your dad somebody who cycles every day? Is it what he does to keep fit? We don't cycle every day we do it like at the weekends and we like have because we're like

we live like outside our door there's like loads of little tracks you can cycle along and stuff and we can like so we live where we can do lots of cycling. And this is something that you and your dad do together at the weekend? Well, we all do it. Me, my two brothers, my mum and my dad and my dog. We all do it. The dog? So who's in charge of the dog when you're out with the bikes?

When we're like cycling up the road, she's on our lead and she's like by the side of my mum. And then when we got onto like the road, she's on her lead, and she's, like, by the side of my mum. And then when we got onto, like, the track, she could be let off because she, like, won't go anywhere because she's a Velcroed. Velcroed. OK. And what's your dog's name? Mavis. And we just got another one on Saturday. He's called Otto. Your invention. When did the idea itself come to you? to and we made a video of it for Medell's YouTube channel and then the lady who was like sorting

everything out called Alison she showed me like a piece of paper with like all the competition details and stuff and then I was just like oh why not I make a helmet you can like take stuff out and like it's adjustable for people who have an implant in a different place because everyone has them in different places so they can wear them and hear at the same time and and you've won yeah it was like I was so surprised I didn't expect to win because I just did like a drawing and a lot of people did like models and stuff and really good ones it was just like I was speechless when I found out because Alison the lady who had helped out she facetimed my dad and my dad told me to come in and she just told me that I was the winner and it was it was amazing who did you tell first

when you found out uh my mum I think yeah. And then I think I told my brothers after that. Then we told our grandparents and stuff. Right. So everybody knew. And how were your brothers about it? Are they proud of you or perhaps a little bit jealous? Well, I don't think my older brother was jealous because my dad arranged an extra ticket for him to come. So it was just, it was me, my older brother and my mum who went and then my little brother and my dad stayed at home. You would like really for the helmet to be made, wouldn't you, to be manufactured?

Yeah, but my dad said that you have to pay for some things so other people couldn't steal ideas. It would cost millions to develop it. We did speak to a patent agent who thought it was protectable, but when we looked into the approvals process, etc., it was just a huge undertaking. So it doesn't

look like it's going to happen. That's a real shame. Tom, you felt somebody as a cyclist with hearing loss that it would have benefited you hugely? Well, I think it's something that would benefit a lot of people, but in a global sense, it's a tiny, tiny market,

and it's still going to cost the same amount to get all the approvals, et cetera, as it would for a helmet that's going to sell 5 million, and you might potentially sell 3,000 or 4,000. Right. But, yes, you've got to make the choice whether you're going to hear or whether you're going to protect your head and I think it's really, really important that you can hear. Of course, yeah. And cycling is obviously a big part of your family life. It's something you want to carry on doing safely. I would much prefer to wear a helmet. I wear a bobble hat,

but it doesn't give much protection. I don't fall off very often to to be honest. Do I, Betty? But yes, it's not ideal. And Betty, you are in year, let me think, you're in year five or year six at school? Year six now. Okay. So what does your future hold, do you think? Do you fancy yourself as an inventor or working in science? What do you think you might be doing forensic scientists right because like i enjoy like crime solving and stuff like that forensic science i don't really know what that means do you do you know what those those incredible women and men do betty i like crimes and stuff people like collect like fingerprints and like blood samples and stuff and they take them to their lab.

And the forensic scientists collect DNA from it and find out who's done the crime and stuff. And you think that would be something you could put your skills to good use doing? Yeah. OK. Meanwhile, it's another day in year six. So what's happening at school today? Every morning is the same at school. You have English, then reading, then you have maths. And I think on Mondays it's either art or PSHE. Really lovely to talk to you. Thank you very much, Betty, and congratulations to you. And, Tom, you must be so proud of her.

Oh, absolutely, yes. She's got her head screwed on this one. You see a lot of people who have ideas and you see a lot of people who have the resolve to actually put things into effect, but not that many, certainly not at this age. You've got them both.

I think she'll go a long way this month. That is Tom Seabrook, who is the very proud father of Betty Seabrook, the inventor. And I think we should all make a note of Betty's name. As her dad indicates there, I suspect she's going places.

Kamala Harris isn't just going places. She's arrived. And Samira says it's about time a woman was in charge in a high executive role in the US government. For far too long, it's been a bastion of male dominance. Kamala Harris represents the inspiration the women of the world have been waiting for. And it couldn't have come a moment too soon from sarah i love that bit where kamala harris says see yourself as others may not now that i agree actually that is good advice for all of us i think says sarah it's like the opposite

of imposter syndrome thank you for playing that clip today yeah well we thought it's i'm glad you enjoyed it sarah we thought about not playing it simply because it has been around a lot. But on the other hand, why not? Let's just hear it again. You don't have to agree with her politics to agree that it's a brilliant thing

that she's there. To the conversation about Down syndrome and testing. Kevin says, my son Oscar has Down syndrome. He is 12 now and he has been a joy. Our lives are enhanced and could not have been better.

An anonymous contributor says I had a late diagnosis of Downs and had a termination at 33 weeks. I found it very hard to find anybody with real experience of a child with Downs despite looking for it. Another anonymous email. When I was pregnant, I had blood tests and I was told to come in for an amnio where the hospital could arrange an appointment if further action was required. They implied that the action would be termination, but offered me absolutely no information or resources about having a baby with Down syndrome. I went to the library that

evening and gathered as much information as I could. As my husband's uncle had Downs, I knew that a full life could be lived and I was shocked at the lack of unbiased advice or support from the hospital. From Claire, I've always been very grateful to the registrar I saw 26 years ago when I went in for a scan. I told him I would not have a termination if the test showed an abnormality. He suggested that I didn't bother to have a test because it would show some percentage of risk and I would spend the rest of my pregnancy worrying about that percentage. He was right and I often think how fortunate I was to meet a doctor who listened and understood. Another anonymous emailer says I had a brother with Downs who died at the age of 62 last year.

He was a very able man, able, for instance, to travel independently and to work at least in a sheltered environment. However, he never lived entirely independently. He developed depression and a dementia, which by the time of his death was very severe. Parents of Downs people remain active parents to the ends of their lives. It is not an easy job. And the chances are that a sibling, as in my case, will eventually take over the main care and advocacy for their downed sibling. It's an honour and a privilege, but it is not easy. Decisions should be made in the full understanding of what the future may hold, not just the early years, as is so often the case. From Alison, I was told by my midwife, after I'd made it clear that I didn't want to terminate that they could still deal with

it up until I was full term. They offered termination on the sole basis of a 12-week scan and no other tests. I was told the baby was unlikely to survive pregnancy. Well she's nine now and a total joy. From Sherry, my beautiful funny and delightful daughter with Down syndrome is 18. She does not have a condition and she brings enhancement, not detriment. The children in her primary school were more kind and caring than others who stared and made fun of her. So a whole group of people are better because she was with them. And that's just the start. Yes, I think Sherry makes a good point there about the impact of somebody like her own daughter on the rest of us, which shouldn't be overlooked.

Tomorrow, the programme is going to be presented by Anita Rani and she'll be discussing allotments. A recent study from Imperial College in London found that in London, at least almost two-thirds of plots are now occupied by women and the National Allotment Society estimates that half of all holders nationally are women compared to just two percent. Wow, back in 1973. There'll also be a conversation with a football referee Patsy Andrews who's been doing that most taxing of jobs for the last 16 years. Now her son is following in his mum's footsteps and is officiating in the English Football League Championship. There'll be guests with Anita tomorrow on Women's Hour. Hope you enjoy that. And I'll see you later in the week. Thanks for listening.

I'm Sarah Treleaven. And for over a year, I've been working on one of the most complex stories I've ever covered. There was somebody out there who was faking pregnancies. I started, like, warning everybody. Every doula that I know. It was fake. No pregnancy. And the deeper I dig, the more questions I unearth.

How long has she been doing this? What does she have to gain from this? From CBC and the BBC World Service, The Con, Caitlin's Baby. It's a long story, settle in. Available now.