Woman's Hour - Vicky Pattison, Women's Darts, Period Loss and Iranian Feminists Cyberattack.

Episode Date: July 21, 2022

TV personality Vicky Pattison shot to fame on the reality show Geordie Shore, where her extreme party-girl lifestyle in Newcastle was lived out in front of the cameras. Now, she’s taking a long, hard look at her past in a new documentary which centres around her father’s struggle with alcoholism for most of his adult life. She explains to Nuala McGovern how this has, in part, contributed towards her own unhealthy relationship with drinking. We look ahead to this weekend’s historic event in the world of women’s darts as the World Matchplay tournament which takes place in Blackpool is the first female tournament to be fully televised. We catch up with the woman known as ‘Queen of the Palace’, Fallon Sherrock, about her career, her success and also about how the sport has grown.Did you know that diet and exercise can cause period loss, even if you're considered to be a generally healthy person? FHA – functional hypothalamic amenorrhea – is when over-exercising, under-eating or stress causes the body to stop menstruating. It's estimated that FHA affects between 2-5% of women, with 30% of women who exercise, including elite athletes considered to be at peak health, experiencing period loss. On Tiktok, the hashtag #periodloss has over 2.9 million views, and is full of women talking about their experiences with FHA. Nuala is joined by Martha Williams, a Senior Clinical Advice Coordinator at Beat, a charity working to tackle eating disorders, and Olivia Nevill, an online fitness coach who has experienced FHA.At least 20 Iranian feminists, most connected to Iran's #MeToo Movement, have written a letter of complaint to Instagram and Facebook after they were bombarded with thousands of fake followers. They say they've been deliberately targeted and want META - the owner of the social media platforms - to take action. They say they're under a "coordinated cyberattack". Because the bots have made their accounts unmanageable, they've had to put their accounts on private mode which limits their social media reach and the community they're trying to build. Nuala is joined by Samaneh Savadi, an Iranian women’s rights activist based here in the UK.

This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK. I'm Natalia Melman-Petrozzella, and from the BBC, this is Extreme Peak Danger. The most beautiful mountain in the world. If you die on the mountain, you stay on the mountain. This is the story of what happened when 11 climbers died on one of the world's deadliest mountains, K2. And of the risks we'll take to feel truly alive. If I tell all the details, you won't believe it anymore. Extreme. Peak danger. Listen wherever you get your podcasts.

BBC Sounds. Music, radio, podcasts. Hello, this is Nuala McGovern and you're listening to the Woman's Hour podcast. I'm wondering, are you a little bleary-eyed maybe from staying up late to watch England play and win against Spain in the Euros last night? Well, it was a nail-biter. A wonderful result for the Lionesses. 2-1 leaving a heartbroken Spain on the pitch. But with such excitement that unfolded over that game, I think

there may be more than a few new football fans. And are you one of those is what I'm asking this morning. You know, watching women on the field in this high-stakes tournament, did you become a convert? Well, if so, you can text WOMAN'S HOUR on

84844. I want to hear from you. A text will be charged at your standard message rate and you do need to check with your network provider for exact costs. On social media, it's at BBC WOMAN'S HOUR or you can email us through our website. I'm watching all those platforms for your message.

Staying with sporting competitions, darts is about to have its first televised women's tournament. Queen of the Palace, Fallon Shirk, she's going to be with us to tell us what it means for women and the sport. Looking forward to speaking to her. And I'm also looking forward to speaking to TV personality, Vicky Patterson. Now you may know Vicky from the reality show Geordie Shore. She had this, she calls it an extreme party girl lifestyle. But now Vicky's

taking a long hard look at her past. It's in a new documentary which centres around her father's struggle with alcoholism and also how this has contributed in part towards her own unhealthy relationship with drinking. So that's all coming up a little bit later. But before that, shall we turn to something else that happened yesterday? Liz Truss and Rishi Sunak, they emerged last night as the final candidates for the Conservative leadership after Ms Truss overturned a narrow lead that was held by Trade Minister Penny Mordaunt, at one point the favourite, to secure the backing of 113 Tory MPs to Ms Mordaunt's 105.

So polls currently, they suggest that Foreign Secretary Ms Truss, who has criticised Mr Sunak for raising taxes during his time as Chancellor, that she's the favourite candidate of the membership. And in 46 days, we she's the favourite candidate of the membership and in 46 days we will know the outcome of the contest and also, of course, who is to become the next British Prime Minister. Could it be a Conservative

woman leading the country for a third time? That's one of the questions I want to put to Rachel Sylvester, political columnist at the Times newspaper, joining us right now. So your reaction to Liz Truss in particular overturning Penny Morton's lead? Well, what was so interesting was that Liz Truss became the kind of standard bearer of the right in the Tory parliamentary party.

And there's now going to be this real ideological battle as the contest goes out to the party members over the economy, over the sort of fundamentals of the future of the country, tax and spending. And these two Conservatives who, until recently, sat around the same cabinet table, have completely different views on what should happen. And I think the interesting question is whether the party activists out there are thinking about winning the general election or they're thinking about giving themselves a sort of comfort blanket of ideology. Because actually the polls show that Liz Truss is ahead among the party members, but Rishi Sunak is ahead among the voters more generally. So there's a really interesting dilemma there for the activists. I mean, when it comes to Liz Truss and in particularly overtaking Penny Mordaunt, what do you think it was about Ms Truss that, you know,

eventually kind of changed that dynamic that we saw really just in the last few days? I think it was that the MPs decided Penny Mordaunt was too great a risk. And they were voting against candidates as much as they were voting for candidates. So I spoke to MPs who were saying, we've got to do anything to stop Liz Truss getting onto the ballot paper for the final two. But there were other MPs who, when they saw Penny Mordaunt perform in the debates, thought we've just got to stop Penny Mordaunt. So I think there was a lot of negative voting going on as well as positive voting. And in the end, the balance came down in Liz Truss's favour as this kind of champion of low tax, smaller state conservatism.

And with Penny Mordaunt, if anybody's looking at the newspapers this morning, they will see that some of her backers are saying that Trust's team released certain documents to make Penny Mordaunt look bad,

that she was given an unfairly difficult time in social media. I will say there's no response or confirmation or denial from the trust camp on that. But is that just to be expected in today's political sparring? I think this has turned into a really bitter, dirty leadership contest, actually. So Tom Tukintat, one of the white man who went out first among those five contestants who got through to the TV debate,

he said it had become a knife fight in a phone box. And it has felt like that. A leadership contest should be the sort of moment for a party to show off their brightest and best talent to the electorate. But at the moment, what the Tory party seems to be exposing is the real deep ideological divisions, but also the personality clashes between these most senior figures. And I think that's only going to get even more bitter over the next few weeks as they go out around the country. Yeah, I think this is interesting as well, because people are engaged in this leadership contest. It is not just definitely the Conservative

membership that is. And talking about Liz Truss, you know, she has been Foreign Secretary, but a lot of people don't know her background. Rishi Sunak, of course, front and centre really since February 2020 as Chancellor. How does that work, do you think, in or out of their favour? And I'll get to some of the other people that are now out of the contest, but perhaps becoming more household names in a moment. What's really interesting is that the two most closely associated with Boris Johnson are the ones who've got through. So Liz Truss, who stayed in the cabinet, Rishi Sunak, who resigned just very briefly before Boris Johnson resigned, and also who was so closely associated with the economic policies of the last few,

last Johnson years. And I think that there's a risk for the Tory party if they're trying to dissociate themselves with a leader who they themselves, the MPs decided, was not fit for office. They've now got the kind of two figures who are most closely associated with him left in the race, whereas others, Kemi Badenoch or Tom Tukendak or even Penny Morden, would have been a much cleaner break with those Johnson years of gold wallpaper and parties. So I think that's quite an interesting choice they've made. And in the end, I suppose it was choosing the safer options and giving the party out in the country a real ideological choice. Yes, it'll be so interesting to see how those members, because they're kind of carrying the weight of the country on their conservative shoulders. But again, Penny Mordaunt

and Kemi Badenoch, actually, they weren't successful as we talked about that. But, you know, those names are now known. Would you expect them to feature in a cabinet come September? I think very much so. I think that they've both shown themselves to be beyond rising stars, stars who have risen in a way and who gathered a lot of support among their colleagues in Parliament but also among the party members and i think the voters as well were really interested to see these two women um from different backgrounds different perspectives um and actually this was an incredibly diverse um leadership contest you know split equally on gender basis from the beginning um So it did sort of show that angle of the Conservative Party off to quite good effect.

Well, let's talk a little bit more about that because, you know, as I opened up, you know, we could be looking at a third female Conservative Prime Minister. And, you know, some might be thinking, oh, you know, that's interesting. The Labour Party have not had a permanent female leader. We were looking back, Margaret Beckett,

during the major government acting, Harriet Harman, during the Cameron government acting, they were deputies that just for a short while took that role. I don't know, what does that tell us? Anything? Well, yeah, three of the last four Labour leaders, I think, have been white men from Islington, North London. That is pretty extraordinary.

Gordon Brown was from Scotland, but also a white man. So you do, not Labour leaders, but prime ministers. Sorry, not yet. They've been a predominance of white men at the top of the Labour Party, Ed Miliband as well. And it's just I why that is, even though Labour got to the more female MPs much quicker than the Tory party. They have got a problem with that. OK, before I let you go, Rachel, you know, watching Boris Johnson leave Parliament yesterday

and everybody gets up, this rousing speech, clap, clap, clap, except for one figure when we speak about female prime ministers. Very slow to get to her feet was Theresa May. And I don't think I saw any clapping. Definitely not part of the standing ovation. What did you make of that? Well, she prides herself on being what she calls a bloody difficult woman. She had a mug with that printed on it when she was prime minister. And she saw it as a badge of honour when Ken Clarke used those

words about her. And I think she just wasn't going to give Boris Johnson any credit whatsoever. She despised him when he was in her cabinet. And he gave her such a hard time. She wasn't going to throw her weight and give him a standing ovation at the end. And I think good on her. She stood by her principles. I could just see the back of her, you know, the handbag. He's going one direction and she definitely was going the other. Rachel Sylvester, thanks so much for joining us this morning on Woman's Hour. Just seeing some of the messages

that are coming in. I was talking about the Lionesses last night. We were watching this, just amazing, on the pitch, women giving it their all and they won 2-1 against Spain.

So they're up against Belgium or Sweden will be the next match and you are getting in touch. Let me see, here's one. As a mature, non-watching football person, I've never seen such good games.

So exciting, really exciting. The girls' skill, professionalism, generous attitudes to each other and the opposition. I think that's something that's really echoed by others. So if you want to get in touch, it's all the usual ways.

For a woman's hour, I want to hear, are you a convert? Are you a new fan? touch, it's all the usual ways for a woman's hour. I want to hear, are you a convert? Are you a new fan? I think it's something about just seeing women in this high stakes game, perhaps something that some of us are not used to. Love to hear from you, if you are. But before that, somebody has come to join me here in studio. You may know her already, a TV personality, Vicky Pattison. She has been, of course, on the reality show Geordie Shore, where, as she calls it, her extreme party girl lifestyle in Newcastle was lived out, of course, in front of the cameras.

Well, now she's taking a long, hard look at her past. And it's a new documentary which centres around her father's struggle with alcoholism for most of his adult life and how this has contributed in part towards her own unhealthy relationship to alcohol. Her documentary is for Channel 4 it's called Vicky Patterson,

My Dad, Alcohol and Me. Let's listen to a clip now where she puts some hard truths. Bless you Vicky! I'm so sorry I tried to help hold it for so long That's alright, it's all good Let's go, I find this clip very

moving, let's listen to it together Some hard truths you put to your dad Drinking to that volume like your body can't take it anymore and I need you to understand we can't take it anymore. And I need you to understand

we can't go through that anymore. I'm sorry. There's no need to be sorry, darling. But there's days where I know I won't be able to walk past the booze shop. I know I won't. I have disappointed everybody so many times before that it would be a lie for me to say,

I'll never drink again, tea. I will try my absolute hardest. But the awful thing is I thoroughly believe that in 10 years' time I could be saying exactly the same thing to you. Wow. Vicky, welcome. So good to have you with us. This is such a moving documentary. And I mean, listening to that clip again of you and your dad,

obviously such a difficult conversation to have what's going through your head now listening to it and perhaps your mind at that time too? Obviously like hearing that it's never easy you know and I suppose in terms of a story arc for the documentary it would would have been really lovely if he'd turned around at the end. And even more than that, just for me, you know, for him to say, oh, yeah, I'm done. I've seen the error of me ways. I've seen the light.

I'm going to put everything behind us and turn over a new leaf. But it wouldn't have been authentic and it wouldn't have been true anybody who has struggled with addiction or knows someone who is is an alcoholic knows that I think you're almost um you're in it for life you know and um the best my dad could give us was that he would try um and I think I think I have to admire him for his honesty I suppose um and his authenticity even though I wish it was different and was that enough that he gave you I'm like I think I'm always gonna want more God like I love him so much I wish the answer was different i wish the answer was different for everybody going through it um but i had to respect what he said um and i appreciate

how hard he tries so what motivated you to make this documentary i've had so many thoughts in my head as i was listening to some of the clips about how you get your father on board for example to really air this thing that's so deep and personal and painful um yeah and it was really hard for both of us my mom's involved at some point as well and she found it incredibly difficult as well like it's everybody's life um and it's certainly not our past it's very much our present which makes it all that more difficult. But we're all of a similar opinion. I grew up understanding, even before I understood enough about my dad's illness,

that we weren't to talk about it, that we were to be... That perpetuated this culture of shame, you know? And I just don't want that to continue I don't want people to be ashamed of being an alcoholic or feel like they have to like hide things from people it's it's nothing to be ashamed of it's an illness it's a disease one in five children or have an alcoholic parent like it's just so, it's a disease, one in five children have an alcoholic parent. Like, it's just so much more common than most people realise. And I think if we do start talking about it, if we are more honest and open, then you break down that stigma.

And there's less children growing up like me, thinking that they are in some way so different to everybody else and a bit broken. And instead, perhaps it's happening to so many, but hidden. How would you describe your childhood, Vicky? I think it's amazing when you're a kid because all you know is what you know. So what you're exposed to is what you think is normal and I thought my household was normal and for the most part it absolutely was two beautiful parents who cared about me and my sister loads and did their absolute best but it was it was only when I became an adult or at least like late teens that I realised a lot of the stuff wasn't commonplace

in most people's homes, you know, sometimes quite loud, sometimes a bit scary. But for the most part, I had a very happy childhood and I do feel really grateful. But I suppose that alcohol being around in that respect brings this kind of to you because you are somebody who has lived out loud, as they say, you know what I mean? It's a nice way of putting it. Exactly. And so lots of people feel that they know you, but they will know, you know, there's often that kind of term fond of a drink or you could say party girl lifestyle. But, you know, you talk about this particularly on your days back on the Geordie Shore, perhaps. Were you aware of that?

Were you thinking about your drinking or your father's life as you were kind of indulging, probably is the right word? So when I was on Geordie Shore, I was like probably about 21 22 um obviously i stayed on it for quite a while but i was really young um and i i don't think i don't think my father's illness played a huge part in my decision decision making process

at all you're just at that age youthfully arrogant aren't? Like you completely think you've got it all figured out, which you absolutely don't. So no, I just, I don't think it occurred to me the huge parallels that sort of were beginning to appear until it was all a bit too late, really. Hindsight's a great thing, isn't it? Yeah. Do you think, was there, like some people talk about, you know, a moment or a catalyst. Was it that with you or was it a more gradual realisation? No, I think with me it was a slow burner.

Me, time on Jodie Shaw was certainly a bit of a, it definitely exacerbated, you know, my complicated relationship with alcohol. But even after I left that, you know, my complicated relationship with alcohol. But even after I left that, you know, and I supposedly had the world at my feet after I did I Am A Celeb, I still had a very complicated relationship with alcohol. I think I probably always will, for the truth be told.

But it's just learning to, like, manage it. And that is what I'm sort of struggling with now. How would you describe it then, that relationship? It's definitely been a turbulent one. I think at the moment I'd describe myself as a very mindful drinker. I'd love to just be somebody who could sort of have a spontaneous night out and have a couple of glasses of wine with our friends and not think about it but it's it's never gonna be me I'm always gonna have to be the person

who says who's looked at the menu beforehand and knows what she's having and has the car book to go home even before she's got to the place she's going you know and that might sound really boring like I'm such a party pooper to everybody but I will poop that party if it helps my health. Have you ever thought about giving up alcohol completely? It's definitely crossed my mind you see in the documentary I meet a couple of incredible women from an organization called NACOA and it's like children and relatives of alcoholics that it helps predominantly offers them support and one of those ladies had chosen to be teetotal and the other was sort of going down a different route and there've been periods of my life where I've opted to have prolonged

sobriety but I would like to avoid it if possible not Not because I'm so desperate for a drink or anything like that, but just because I'd love to be able to exercise some balance and control. I'd love to be able to say that's my life, that I can have a nice night with a couple of drinks and not ruin it or go too far or feel in some way controlled by it. How hopeful do you feel for that? Do you know what? If you'd asked us that, like, end of last year, before I started doing the documentary, I felt really bleak. I felt like I was going to lose my battle with this regardless. I felt like I was always just going to end up like my dad

and it was just a matter of time but actually since making the documentary um I feel like I've been educated a lot about the disease um about what my dad's going through and also like about my motivations for why I drink like we all have them and I just don't think I was aware of mine I'm really anxious I become quite socially awkward and I just don't think I was aware of mine. I'm really anxious. I become quite socially awkward. And I deal with big social situations by having too many drinks because that calms me down. So now I just try and avoid places where I probably would need to drink to be calmer, you know. So I think now I'm feeling more hopeful than I ever have before. And it is pretty much down to just have better understanding of it, you know?

I'm really glad to hear that. And, you know, wish you all the best with it, of course. But I'm wondering, as you're saying that, what did you learn about your dad's illness? I, for years, used to cry and used to be angry and didn't understand why me dad didn't love me more than he loved drink. But it's not that easy. And it's not that straightforward. He didn't choose this life at all.

And there's a huge part of him that is trying so hard all the time to be better and loads of like on so many days he wins that battle you know and on the days he doesn't like he doesn't we don't need to be judgmental or angry we need to show kindness and compassion How hard is that though? It's quite tough sometimes. Sometimes it's

dead easy because he's me dad and I love him and my instant reaction is to wrap him up in cotton wool. But other times, you know, when you just, you want the dad you're like, you want the dad that you sort of promised, then it's hard. You know, you're doing this to raise awareness. What advice would you have, because there'll be lots of people listening that have an alcoholic parent or perhaps have lived through it.

Maybe their parent is even no longer here, but definitely the ramifications of growing up through that remain. I feel like one of my huge motivations for making this was to raise awareness about it, but also so anyone going through something like I've gone through doesn't feel alone. I felt so alone growing up. Like I was literally the only one who could understand it. And it's madness because you're never alone. There's always someone who is going through something similar

or has it worse off or can just totally understand. And that is what this documentary is going to do it's going to shed some sunlight some candor all of it on um for some reason a very taboo topic yeah how's your dad doing he's really good thank you um he's very excited i'm here today'd have to give him a shout out bless him dad I hope you're listening yeah he's it was it was his mum's favourite show

as well he says everyone used to have to be quiet when she put Woman's Hour on so no he's proper order he's doing really well

thank you at the moment just seen a message comes in from John a very moving item on the damage done by alcoholism, both to the sufferer and those that love him, or them, should I say. There is hope.

While I breathe, there is hope. I'm an alcoholic in recovery, nearly 27 years sober. Using the AA12 steps, it's not the only route, but it works for me. I've seen many get into recovery and also many early deaths over the years. And I would imagine, and John, thank you for that message and congratulations on your sobriety,

that you're worried about your father being around. Yeah, obviously. I mean, I haven't had children or anything yet. You know, I haven't been lucky enough to get married or anything either. So I'm just a completely normal girl who absolutely wants that moment where her dad walks her down the aisle. I want him to share all those beautiful moments with me that I haven't had yet. And for a long time, it was a very genuine concern

that he wouldn't get to see any of those things. So no, as a family, we all really try and support my dad in his sobriety because the alternative is heartbreaking. On a very happy note, I hear you got engaged this year. Some wedding planning going, some aisle walking being thought about. That was a real gear shift wasn't it yeah no I'm very excited I got engaged back in February we just had our engagement party at the weekend which my dad was in attendance I bless him and yeah we're no wedding planning no firm plans as of yet I feel like the wedding the engagement was big was quite a big one so I'm content to put it off for a couple of years.

Yeah, I feel like I never milked my engagement and I really should have. Oh God, yeah. Missed a trick there. I totally missed a trick. It's been such a pleasure having you in, Vicky. I wish you all the best. That's Vicky Patterson.

The documentary is Vicky Patterson, My Dad's Alcohol and Me. It's going to air on Tuesday, 2nd of August. It's at 10pm on Channel 4. And I should say, details of organisations offering information and also support with addiction

are available at bbc.co.uk forward slash action line or you can call for free at any time to hear the recorded information on 08000 155 947. Thanks so much, Vicky. You're welcome. Thank you. You are listening to Woman's Hour. It is 10.29 right now. I want to let you know that starting on the 22nd of August, we're going to be running our annual listener week,

where all the items are chosen by you. So if there's an issue, maybe a story, an interview or a discussion that you've always wanted to hear on this programme, you can let us know. It is bbc.co.uk forward slash woman's hour. Don't repeat it twice. Let me do that properly.

bbc.co.uk forward slash woman's hour. And of course, the text is 84844 and at BBC Women's Hour is also on social media or email us and that is through the website. Okay. I want to move on

to another sporting phenomenon. I was talking about the Lionesses last night. Somebody got in touch. This is Sarah. Dan Lewis, not far from Brighton. She says, so many, many children and families at the Brighton Stadium last night. Girls teams and their kids celebrating the joy of the game. It was a delight to be

in the crowd of over 28,000. Women playing football are a game changer. What about darts? Shall we talk about that as we celebrate women's success in various arenas? The weekend, this weekend, is going to mark this historic event. It is the professional darts competition, the Women's World Match Play.

It's going to be fully televised for the first time. Now, I was surprised, maybe you're surprised that it is the first time. I would love to hear from you as well, Not just football, also Darth, do you play? Do you watch? Get in touch? Particularly how the women's game perhaps, how it's showcased by the men. Sometimes they play together as

my next guest did, Queen of the Palace Fallon Sherrick. Do you remember? First woman to have won a match against a man. That was the World Championship back in 2019. Yes, she's competing this weekend. Fallon Fallon welcome we spoke just after that win a couple of years ago how are you doing hello yeah no I'm good thank you um really happy to be you know on this show well we're really happy to have you um easily one of the most successful women in this sport how have things changed do you think from when you first started out and I suppose also since that win yeah no it's definitely

been really hectic you know it's been constant you know traveling playing in a lot of competitions you know I'm literally getting pushed in all over the world now playing the sport that I love it's absolutely bizarre how everything's has changed it's really cool though was it a difficult transition like to go from you know somebody that wasn't well known let's be honest too if I mentioned darts and women the name Fallon Fallon Sherrick is one of the first to come up yeah no I mean it was a bit different because uh obviously like you just said like it if people had said, you know, darts and stuff, they wouldn't have put my name towards it. And then obviously going into it, like the transition, it's been weird to adjust to it because it's like people like recognize you now, whereas they didn't before. And then now there's an expectation when you play and it's like, oh, it's a bit scary.

For those who haven't watched the sport, I was a child of the 70s and 80s. I was about to say the 80s, but let's be honest, the 70s and 80s, so very much grew up watching it, you know, 180. But some haven't. How would you describe the sport, the thrill of it um I describe it as like there's such a like an atmosphere it's like an electric atmosphere and then when you like play

on the stage you know the crowd just get behind you it's like a party atmosphere you know um you get such an adrenaline rush when you play you know it helps with your maths that's why a lot of people you know try and get their kids involved because it helps them with their maths in schools. It's just a genuinely good sport to get into and it's got a good social side to it as well. Do women, because we're talking about this being televised this weekend, do women need their own tournament?

I feel like they do just because, you know, you don't see that many women playing that often on the TV. When there is women that play, we just don't get the opportunity to show, you know, showcase what we can do. So I feel this is very important to, you know, get us women to show the world, you know, how we can play darts. And the people that's qualified are actually really, really good dart players. So I'm hoping, you know how we can play darts and the people that's qualified are actually really really good dart players so I'm hoping you know we can put on a performance

and just show everyone that us women can compete as well as the men. Is it different playing with women as opposed to playing with men? I don't think so it's that it depends what game you get really because you know you can get someone who averages 100 average or you can get someone that averages 75. It's the same with the men as well. When you play a man, they're either going to average 100 or they're going to average 75. It's exactly the same. It's just different men and women.

It's the same person. You know, when I was reading up a little bit more on darts last night, and some people call it a gender neutral sport. And I was asking any difference playing with men or women, but is there like any difference between being a woman and a man? I don't know whether it's height or, I don't know, arm strength or, you know, any aspect like that that you're thinking about? No, I don't. Hang on a second. Sorry, my little voice just walked in the room.

That's fine. Do what you need to do. We are here. And I have lots of social media coming in as well. So I can also chat about that with the sports. If you need to take care of him for a moment, that's no problem. I'm going to talk about the Lionesses for a minute. You do what you need to do, Fallon.

Because here's one about last night's match, England and Spain. Last night's match was so tense. Spain were fast and accurate. I shouted so loudly when the Lionesses scored that the second goal, that was the 96th minute,

let me tell you. Don't know what my neighbours must have thought. What winds me up, though, is these amazing women being referred to as girls. They're not. Now, I noticed that. They were called ladies and they were called girls. But then, after the game,

they also refer to themselves as girls. Is that okay, if they refer to themselves as girls? You don't want other people to refer to them as girls? Good question asked there. Thank you very much, Leslie, getting in touch. Then lots of other people. Let me see. This is Rachel.

It's Rachel. Rachel Chilled. I was out walking last night. I saw lots of tellies through the living room windows, all of them playing the England versus Spain game. I don't watch much sports myself, but it's wonderful to see the Lionesses so supported. Yes, it is. Fallon, let us get back to the darts.

So I was just wondering about physical differences. Does it make a difference when it comes to playing darts? No, not at all. Literally, it's the only sport you can probably be where you don't have to be a certain weight, strength, height, weight. There's no where you don't have to be like a certain weight you know strength height you know weight that you know there's no you don't have to be a certain type to play darts as long as you can throw a dart and it hits the board you know anyone can play at any

age and you know anyone can do it well I can throw a dart doesn't always hit the board um but you were with your little boy there a moment ago you are are a mum. What about all that travel and all those commitments? Is it constantly this juggling act? Yeah, pretty much. But I do have a good family behind me. They support me and they help look after my little boy and stuff. But I mean, six weeks holiday now. Oh my God, I don't know how I'm going to deal with it,

but I'm going to try. Well, we appreciate you coming on Women's Hour. I want to go back to this weekend, so Sunday's match. Eight competitors, wide age range of players from 18 upwards.

We're hearing a lot about Chloe O'Brien. Tell us about those relationships. You're obviously all trying to achieve the same thing, which is to put your sport

in the spotlight. Just how competitive is it? Give us a little window into your world. Yeah, so it is very competitive. You know, don't get me wrong, off the hockey, you know, you'll say hello to everyone, you know, you'll talk to them. But as soon as you play against these people on the hockey, the friendships end there. You literally, you're just like game on and everyone wants to go and win and stuff. But then as soon as the game's over, you can speak to them again. But like, it's like proper killer instinct. And it's really good.

It's really competitive. And the hockey, of course, is that little line for those that haven't played darts that you stand against before you fire off that missile. And what about this being televised for the first time it's kind of surprising that it's the first time now yeah um i think that's like the brilliant thing about it like you know that it's televised so then you know it's not it's not just the people in the venue that gets to watch it it's everyone around the world if they want to tune in they can watch it and i think that's really really important because obviously like I said before you know the women hasn't had the opportunity to showcase what they can do um so this has been like we've been knocking on the door you know asking for opportunities and

stuff and now we've been given this opportunity we've just got to take it we've got to try and you know perform the best we can and hopefully it works well and we can get more competitions and, you know, more places in the world championships. And anything can escalate from this. We just need to, you know, really, really put on a good performance. You, if I remember correctly, you thrive on an audience watching you. What are you looking forward to most this weekend with this particular tournament, briefly? Probably the audience.

No, I love just playing on stage and, you know, hearing all the audience, you know, the chants and the roars and, you know, when you hit 180, the electric atmosphere making them jump up. I absolutely love it. But I'm really looking forward to playing it in, you know, the iconic, you know, the Blackpool where it is. Like everyone's always wanted to play on that stage.

And we, you know, we get the opportunity to play. It's such a privilege to be there. And, you know, you get to play in front of the fans again and they're always the best part of the dance. So I can't wait. Well, enjoy it and thanks for spending some time with us

that is Fallon Sherrock also known as Queen of the Palace Ali Pally of course which has put darts on the map as well recently

Tomorrow we're going to be hearing about the debut Tour de France Femme with female cyclists there have those gruelling hills of the French countryside

Olympic and five time world cycling champion Eleanor Barker will be joining us on Woman's Hour. Thanks all for all your messages coming in. Of course, a lot in response to Vicky Patterson, who is just with us. I do see one here. My mum was an alcoholic. She eventually died in 2000.

I'm so sorry to hear that. I don't have a name on this message. I drink very little and rarely, but my adult daughter is scared I'll end up like my mum and limits me to one drink. How do I convince her I'm not my mum? I think that's just it crosses over so much what Vicky was saying about her fear of turning into her dad. Thank you so much for your message. I want to move on now to Iran. You might have seen this. At least 20 Iranian feminists, most connected to Iran's Me Too movement,

have written a letter of complaint to Instagram and Facebook. This was after they were bombarded with thousands of fake followers. Now, they say they've been deliberately targeted and they want Meta, you know, the owner of the social media platforms, to take action. They say they're under a coordinated cyber attack because the bots have made their accounts unmanageable and they've had to put their accounts on private mode

and then that limits their social media reach and the community that they're working to build. With me is Samaneh Savadi, an Iranian women's rights activist. She's based here in the UK. And she noticed something suspicious about a month ago. You're so welcome, Samaneh, to Women's Hour. What happened? Thank you so much for having me today.

Basically, it was mid-May one night when I checked my Instagram account. I saw I have 4,000 more followers that wasn't strange for me because at that time I had 260,000 people following me and normally that happens when I post something that goes viral three four thousand people join me but then when I looked at them it was just like a thousands of accounts with a photo of a cat or a banana with the username of xxx449 star and not hundreds of them three thousands of them and I looked at other feminist pages and they were the same we all had like the same accounts following all of us and it was a moment I mean that now I make a joke about it and I laugh about it but at that moment

we we basically panicked because we didn't know what those bots gonna do are they gonna report us are Instagram gonna take our pages down and be like oh you bought some fake account so yeah we made our pages private but the request would still come so we spent hours deleting the request and eventually we're just okay it's over now we can go public again we went public and then attack happened again up until today we're in back and forth we go public private attack happens we attack happens, we delete them, they come again. So, yeah, that is the situation now. And also very time consuming, I'm thinking, just as you're saying that, which perhaps takes you away from the work that you are trying to do.

But there was, or is, I should say, a Swedish not-for-profit IT company called Quirium that has investigated. And it's traced some of these fake followers back to at least two social media marketing firms in Pakistan. It says 3,000 new followers had been added on a daily basis for several weeks. The attack was clearly targeted and thousands of dollars were invested. What do you think about that? Do you think you've been targeted? And if so, why? Yes, I think so. I think we have been targeted. OK, just hearing. Let's start from the context.

Like when we are talking about the Iranian feminist activists, when we talk about Iranian feminist activists, we should talk about Islamic Republic, a government that, you know, suppresses, I mean, so many groups of people, but women are one of the main one. And feminist activists inside Iran are facing jail. They are under threat. Some of them are banned from leaving Iran. Someone like me outside Iran, I can't go back in. My families are under pressure. So in that situation, it is we as a feminist, of course, we don't get silent. We resist and we find an entertainment platform to use as a tool of activism, basically. So I guess the government is not happy about that. I mean, or whoever is behind this, the anti-feminist group if you want to call it but so what I can say is they don't like us they don't like us as a feminist they don't like the topics that we are talking about they don't want that feminism in and basically discourse to be out there, to be public, because it wasn't like we are 15 women behind closed doors

whispering about our issues. No, we were outspoken. I myself, I talk very openly about my experience of abortion, motherhood, the dark, the reality of motherhood, sexual harassment, people or other feminists who are under the same attack. They are working a need to sexual harassment, women's sexuality.

So all those topics are very important, but sensitive and taboo topics in a routine. I mean, so many societies, Iran is one of them as well. So I think that is why we've been targeted. And to be honest, hearing those numbers makes me happy, thousands of dollars, because the price of silencing us, I mean, is high. And of course, we do not know if you've been targeted, whether you've been targeted, and particularly with the Iranian authorities, for example, that is absolutely your opinion and nothing that the BBC

can verify. But this is what you are thinking. But I did mention Instagram, Facebook owned by Meta now. And we have spoken to them as well about these accusations. And they say about being targeted or these fake bots that are still there. says we want everyone to feel safe on instagram particularly activists both in iran and around the world we're continuing to investigate the activist concerns we'll take action on any accounts that break our rules have you heard from meta what have they said to you um it's before uh it's been for two months now that basically they are saying they are investigating we haven't heard more than that um from them um and the bots are still there like i myself have more than 200 000 bots on my page and i know other feminist activists they have more than

500 000 bots on their pages which which makes it so hard to manage. What is the problem with having those bots there? You know, actually, what they bots do, I mean, apart from the fact that it makes us feel unsafe, you know, we made those safe spaces for ourselves, for, you know, Iranian women community. Apart from that, they basically change our network. For example, before these attacks, I was 80% of my followers were inside Iran and the rest were Iranian diaspora

that live in Germany, America, Canada. But now that totally changed. Half of my followers are from India and then 10 10 percent from Brazil 10 percent from Argentina that I know that they are not Iranians so now Instagram suggests me real Indian people they are not bots but it's just like okay so many Indian are following you, so probably you should be someone interested. First thing for them. So it brings me out. I'm not able to reach my targeted community anymore. Yes, yes.

And I suppose some of the issues you're talking about are also issues, of course, in other countries, Samané, as well. Do, just before I let you go, are people able to find you though still between as you flip between that private and public mode well i i hope so i hope so you know the problem with i mean of course i'm more than happy to uh woman from any languages in any part of the world hearing me but the problem is i'm talking on my page i'm'm talking in Farsi. And unfortunately, they don't understand me. I don't understand them.

So that is a problem. But then, you know, feminism is such a taboo topic in Iran. So sometimes when I talk about something like abortion, people are not willing to comment there publicly or even follow me publicly. They want my content to be public so they can see it without interacting with me.

Now they have to follow me, which makes it difficult for people. And basically, I think privating us is a new way of silencing us, basically. Interesting. Thank you so much for joining us, Amineh Savadi, talking about the bots in her life as she continues to be an Iranian feminist activist.

I want to turn to periods now, loss of periods really. Diet and overexercising, it can cause periods to go. Even if you're generally a healthy person, FHA is what it's called, functional hypothalamic amenorrhea. It's when that over-exercising or perhaps under-eating or stress could cause the body to stop menstruating. So it's estimated it affects about 2-5%

of women. 30% of women who over-exercise experiencing period loss. There is this hashtag period loss on TikTok with over 2.9 million views. Lots of people talking about what happened to them and also how they got their periods back. Let's chat about some of these issues now

with Martha Williams, Senior Clinical Advice Coordinator at BEAT. That's a charity working to tackle eating disorders. Also, Olivia Neville, an online fitness coach who has experienced FHI as disorders. Also, Olivia Neville, an online fitness coach who has experienced FHA as well. Martha, I'll start with you perhaps first. With FHA, what are the causes and symptoms?

I'm calling it period loss. Is it just that one period doesn't come and that continues? How do people experience it? Yeah, it can vary. So FHA is a hormonal imbalance related to stress, exercising too much or consuming too few calories, which are behaviours often associated with some eating disorders. And there tends to be three types of FHA.

You've got the weight loss related, the stress related and the exercise related. And stress on the body can cause a lack of hormones such as oestrogen, which is needed for the menstrual cycle to stop, meaning that menstruation and ovulation stop. And obviously FHA means that women aren't able to conceive as this isn't possible without a menstrual period. And I think long periods of FHA may lead to future problems with fertility. But FHA carries other risks, such as, you know, declining bone health due to the lack of hormone production, which can cause osteopenia and osteoporosis.

And, you know, this does sound very scary, but fortunately, a lot of these symptoms are reversible if caught early. So I think it's really important that, you know, we have open conversations about this and people feel that they can come forward and say, actually, I've noticed I've not had my period for the past three months

and I'm a bit concerned. You know I think with under eating or stress very recognisable but what is over exercising how would you define that? I think it varies between each person I think over exercise is when someone is exercising to the point past where they feel exhausted they feel kind of a compulsion to exercise so you know it might be a miserable rainy day yet they're still forcing themselves to go outside and go on a run they might not want to exercise but they feel that they have to because they feel that they can't eat you know a normal diet unless they've kind of done the equivalent amount of exercise to burn it off so it's from quite a compulsive place where people feel kind of compelled to exercise beyond what's kind of a reasonable normal amount. And you spoke there of course as well about some of the consequences of losing

your period. I want to bring Olivia in because it happened to you right you lost your period while you were going through an eating disorder. Yeah so I lost my period when I was 14 years old that was from under eating and rapid weight loss and then I lost it again because I relapsed and that was as a result of the two I was then both over exercising and I agree with Martha it's sort of that feeling forcing yourself it's a horrible place to be in and just not allowing your body to take a single day of rest and how did you feel at that time because it's something so concrete right um eating disorder or seeing your body you may not be seeing it the way that really is but a period not being there is pretty concrete do you remember how you felt I remember when I lost it the first time I actually didn't think much of it I was just like oh I was slightly in denial I think that I was perhaps what I was doing was

slightly unhealthy so I didn't think much of it the first month and then it wasn't until my mom because I was 14 years old she started researching because I was like you know this has happened and that's when I realized it's not because I'm not eating enough and it I think it was a big motivator in my recovery because I want to be able to you know have kids have a family and if you can't have a period you can't do that and it's a big drive but I think the time, I didn't really think much of it. Whereas now, I think if I lost my period, there is so much more awareness raised around the topic. I mean, there is always more to be done. But a lot more people know now that you're not giving your body

enough nutrients, enough food, or you're doing something that is wrong. It's not just a few cycles. And was it just eating more regularly that brought it back? Yeah, eating more regularly, gaining weight was a big thing. But the interesting thing was I got to a healthy place like where I was before my eating disorder and it still took a bit of time from that point to come back because I think it takes some time for your

body to adjust for your hormones to regulate again so yeah it took a few months from that point and Martha I mean maybe there's somebody listening who has lost their period maybe their diet and exercising I mean it's hard to know exactly sometimes what's healthy what's not particularly with social media out there and these kind of, what would I say, sometimes unattainable images that people are surrounded with. Martha, what sort of advice would you give to a listener who has lost it? I would say that definitely to seek help from a medical professional as soon as possible. You know, don't be embarrassed to go to your GP and talk about these symptoms. And I think a GP will usually be able to rule out other possible causes of FHA which might be kind of pregnancy or thyroid and gland disorders and I think as well given that

FHA can also be stress related I think if you are feeling particularly stressed or experiencing symptoms of anxiety and depression it might be worth the referral to a mental health professional for talking therapy because this can help to alleviate some of the everyday stress that you might be feeling and kind of help you find healthier and better ways to cope and I think on top of that a dietician may also be able to help if you're struggling with kind of maintaining a balanced diet or that you feel you feel you're malnourished or deficient in certain certain nutrients so yeah I think always speak up and don't be you know embarrassed to talk about it and get help as early as possible so that you don't do too much damage to your body. And what about that? Coming back to you, Olivia, you are a qualified fitness coach.

I just mentioned very briefly there some of the images that are on social media, particularly when it comes to fitness. I mean, sometimes it's kind of hard even to avoid them, to be quite honest, and I'm not even seeking them out. What do you do with clients that you're working with, perhaps, that have lost their periods and kind of how to get to that point that they're at a healthy point of exercise and eating? Yeah, well, firstly, going to the social media point, 100%, I really encourage following the right accounts on social media I'm following any account that you that makes you ever so slightly compare yourself to them or feel a little bit worse about yourself because once you start following the right accounts algorithm will then shift so that on your explore page or like the accounts I follow a lot promoting

weight gain recovery all of that my explore page is filled of positive posts like that um but what i do with my girls is often yes it will i'll get them on a corner like run exercising seven times a week that isn't that isn't healthy that isn't sustainable so what i do is i say if a healthy place we're gonna cut all cardio this cardio puts a lot of stress on your body as well we'll weight train three times a week like easy sessions so they feel like okay I'm getting the endorphin boost I would get but they're now allowing their body to rest and not only rest I'm also making sure they eat plenty more than what they were I think that's really good advice even that on how much and how often.

Olivia Neville and Martha Williams, thank you both so much for joining us on Woman's Hour, speaking quite a bit about exercise and sports and of course the beautiful game as well we were talking about, which was the Lionesses winning. Quick one here.

I only joined the match at extra time. Found myself cheering loudly last night. Such energy and enthusiasm after what must have been a gruelling 90 minutes. 90 minutes? It was longer than that. That's all for today's Woman's Hour. Join us again next time. I'm Sarah Treleaven, and for over a year, I've been working on one of the most complex

stories I've ever covered. There was somebody out there who was faking pregnancies. I started like warning everybody. Every doula that I know. It was fake. No pregnancy. And the deeper I dig, the more questions I unearth. How long has she been doing this?

What does she have to gain from this? From CBC and the BBC World Service, The Con, Caitlin's Baby. It's a long story. Settle in. Available now.