Woman's Hour - Weekend Woman's Hour: Co-parenting, Plastic pollution, ACL injuries, Perinatal suicide

Episode Date: May 4, 2024

What is it really like to be a co-parent? Hayley Allen’s son spends the weekdays with his dad and she takes care of him at the weekends. Carly Harris’ two children spend 80% of their time with her and are looked after by their dad every other weekend. Clare talked to Hayley and Carly about the difficulties and benefits of co-parenting.As talks reach a conclusion in Ottawa this week on a legally binding global treaty on plastic pollution, we speak to film director and campaigner Eleanor Church. Her documentary, X Trillion, comes out this week, and takes the viewer on an all-female expedition to the North Pacific gyre, where much of the world's plastic waste ends up.The risk of ACL injuries in female football players is up to six times higher than their male counterparts. Leeds Beckett University is leading a new study into why this risk rate is so high and the impact on athletes. Knee surgeon to the sports stars Andy Williams explains why this may be happening and footballer Emma Samways, of Hashtag United in Essex, tells us about her ACL injury from earlier on this year.Perinatal suicide, while thankfully rare, is the leading cause of maternal death in the UK. A new study from King’s College London is the first of its kind to focus on the causes. The perinatal period runs from the start of pregnancy to a year after giving birth – and the suicide rates among these women has recently risen. Clare spoke to Dr Abigail Easter, the lead researcher, and Krystal Wilkinson, who shares her own experience.Presenter: Anita Rani Producer: Annette Wells Editor; Erin Riley

This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK. I'm Natalia Melman-Petrozzella, and from the BBC, this is Extreme Peak Danger. The most beautiful mountain in the world. If you die on the mountain, you stay on the mountain. This is the story of what happened when 11 climbers died on one of the world's deadliest mountains, K2, and of the risks we'll take to feel truly alive. If I tell all the details, you won't believe it anymore. Extreme. Peak danger. Listen wherever you get your podcasts.

BBC Sounds. Music, radio, podcasts. Hello and welcome to Weekend Woman's Hour with me, Anita Rani. In a moment, we'll hear about co-parenting. How do you share the parental load once you've separated from your partner? And the film director, Eleanor Church, for her latest documentary, she embarks on an all-female expedition to the North Pacific gyre where much of the world's plastic waste ends up. We found some microbeads, the things that you use in facial washes.

So tiny, tiny, tiny pieces floating in this area that's one of the most remote places on the planet. So we were closer to humans on a space station than we were to people on land. We didn't see a boat for three weeks. And I'll be talking football, more specifically the knee ligament injury known as the ACL, which stands for anterior cruciate ligament, as new research shows that female footballers are six times more likely to suffer this injury compared to their male counterparts. So no disruptions for the next hour, just you and the radio. But first, what's it really like to be a co-parent? How do you share the parental load once you've separated from your partner?

Claire was joined by Hayley Allen, who's a fitness instructor. She has a nine-year-old son who spends the weekdays with his dad, and she takes care of him at the weekends. And Carly Harris, who is also a fitness instructor. She has two children, aged four and two. She cares for them 80% of the time. So often we talk about the animosity around this issue, when there have been difficulties and serious problems

in agreeing arrangements for children after a breakup. But we wanted to focus on the personal impact of being a co-parent. Hayley and Carly joined Claire to tell her about their two very different experiences. Claire began by asking Hayley about why she recently posted on TikTok to say she was a great dad. Well, whenever I talk about my son living primarily with his dad, you obviously get a lot of criticism from both sides, men and women. And I didn't really think this was a thing until I started talking about it

and the double standard just really struck me that if I was a man, a dad, I would absolutely by any one standard be called an incredible parent. I do all the things, you know, I take him out the weekend. We have fun. I buy him extra stuff. I pay job maintenance, all those things. I would be an incredible dad. Women would find me incredibly attractive.

What happens now then? What kind of judgment do you get? that i'm selfish that's the main one that i'm selfish and i think it's more someone commented something recently that um oh i don't mind the setup that you've got it's the fact that you seem to enjoy your time when he's not with you and i said well excuse me ma'am what would you like me to do just sit at home crying like i have free time that i didn't have before why do i have to be this suffering woman for you to be happy there's an expectation that you should be miserable separated from your children missing him endlessly well no i've got work and hobbies and a life and

i very much look forward to our weekends together and i plan fun stuff um but i'm not gonna sometimes pretend that i'm suffering and missing him and there's this hole in my life. You know, he's 10 now. Times change. This wouldn't have happened when he was two years old because, yeah, I was very much attached to him as most mothers are. Tell us how your situation came to be because, as you say,

you did start off with him living with you. So what developed? What happened? A mixture of things. His father ended up having a bit more free time. I decided I want to do a bit more with my life. And he started to spend a little bit more time here and there with his dad. A couple of nights here, a couple of nights here, a couple of nights here. And it just progressed to him messaging,

can I stay at dad's another night? And then after about a year of that, his dad messaged and said, he's talking about living over here more. How do you feel about that? I was like, hmm or how do you feel about that I was like hmm how do I feel about that yeah actually oh yeah I think I'm ready for this and it didn't feel like a wrench no it didn't and I'm very unapologetic in saying that and I think it would be easy for me to pretend because that's what people want to hear do you think you you said the unsayable but actually a lot of people maybe a lot of people listening to this will a lot of women listening to this will think, I wish I could say that.

Well, this is what I get. It's hard. It's very, very hard. I get so many messages from women in my situation who don't tell anyone that they are not the primary carer because of the shame they feel and the criticism they are going to get. And they cannot face being called a terrible mother, being called selfish. And I'm such a shame because men would, again, they just do not get the same criticism. Let's bring in Carly Harris now. Carly, you have two children aged four and two,

and you look after them 80% of the time you're a single parent. And this wasn't, it wasn't your choice to be in this situation, was it? No, it wasn't. I've been a single parent for about a year now. That's just over and for me like my the biggest struggle I had was time apart from my kids like I never planned on having children to not be with them all the time I'd never even you don't you don't consider it until you're in that situation and for me when everything happened my biggest fear was oh my god like I'm going to have

to spend time apart for my children and that's not my choice even particularly at the start having those weekends away for my kids I used to spend crying and I think it does take time to adapt to it don't get me wrong like over the last year I've certainly started to adapt to it. Don't get me wrong, like over the last year, I've certainly started to adapt to it and I've started to make the most of my child free weekends. And even then, I feel like I'm judged on that small period of child free time. I feel like I'm judged if I go away or go on a city break or something like that. I feel like people are very quick to judge any time away from your children, even if it's something that's not particularly your choice and how you're spending that free time so is this do

we get to the nub of this which is there's an expectation that you know if you split up and you're co-parenting it's fine if you're a mother and you're miserable but not if you're you know what I'm fine with that I'm okay with that I've got some time back and I'm living my life which makes me a better mother when I'm with my child. Well, being a woman is, guilt is ingrained in part of being a woman. Unless we're suffering and feeling guilty, people are just not very happy with you. And when you're doing something for yourself,

when I go away, a lot of people go away, they go away with their husband for a little romantic break, but that's fine because she's serving her husband. The minute I go, no, I'm going to Venice with a book, and they're like, whoa, that's incredibly selfish.'s serving her husband the minute I go no I'm going to Venice with a book and they're like whoa that's incredibly selfish not taking your son not taking my son no he's 10 and doesn't want to walk around Venice Carly have you moved beyond this now you say you're in a more comfortable place I know you had a very difficult time and it's only been a year or so but you were um on Mother's Day because of the child care arrangements you weren't with your son

and those kind of days or your children that's's going to be a wrench, isn't it? But where are you on that journey to kind of saying, I'm all right with this arrangement now? I'm not quite there yet, I'll be honest. I'm still experiencing quite a lot of firsts. Still, I think I'm in the divorce process so things aren't finalised yet.

And I think for me, it's still adapting. I'm not going to lie. I am one of those mums that even when I go, I went on like a slightly longer trip last month and there was a school holiday. So my ex-husband had the kids slightly longer. I think it was three nights or four nights. And I'm only used to two nights max. And that kind of tipped me over the edge a bit. Like I had a cry and I'm still adapting to that. And I do struggle with that. And I kind of I think that's OK. I think it's okay from both ends. I've always been an incredibly maternal person. For me, the one thing growing up I knew I 100% wanted to be was a mum.

I gave up my teaching career. So yeah, I mean, I'm making the most of my kid-free weekends. That doesn't mean I'm not struggling. I try and distract myself a lot and I am enjoying life again. Claire speaking with Hayley Allen and Carly Harris there and lots of you got in touch about this subject. Fola Damola said I love time away for my children because I'm not just a mother I am multiple things to multiple people and I want to fully enjoy all parts of my life. My children spending half their time with the only other person in the world that loves them as much as I do is the best thing for them. And for me, because I know they're loved and cared for,

that gives me the headspace to care for myself and be ready to love and care for them when they're back home with me loving it. Now, delegates from 174 countries have been in Ottawa this week for the latest round of talks that have the aim of reaching a legally binding international agreement on plastic pollution. Since the 1950s, more than 9 billion tonnes of plastic have been produced, of which 7 billion tonnes have become waste, filling up landfills and polluting lakes, rivers, the soil and the ocean. Humanity now produces 430 million tonnes of plastic each year,

two-thirds of which is contained in short-lived products. Some of that plastic gets into the food chain, where it has the potential to harm human health. One woman who cares enough about this to have travelled 3,000 miles to investigate the effects of plastic pollution in our seas is the film director Eleanor Church. Her documentary called X Trillion came out this week, and she takes the viewer on an all-female expedition to

the North Pacific gyre, where much of the world's plastic waste ends up. It's a brilliant documentary, and Eleanor joined Claire in the studio, and she began by asking her why the title X Trillion. X Trillion really is because we don't know exactly how many pieces of microplastic are in the ocean and we started off thinking about how many millions, trillions of stars there are in the sky and often that's compared to how many trillions of pieces of microplastics there are in the ocean around us on the boat but But there isn't an exact number. So we went for X. Yeah, and it's very, very powerful. I mean, the expedition was to the Great Pacific Garbage Patch. And so we're very used to images of these vast floating rubbish dumps. But that isn't actually what we see in the documentary, is it? So the Great Pacific Garbage Patch is thought to be

three times the size of France. So it's area but as you say it's not what people imagine it to be and actually we were sailing through this the the it's called the North Pacific Gyre and the Great Pacific Garbage Patch we were sailing through this for days and days and days and actually it just looked like normal sea and sometimes we'd see a chair float past or a toothbrush or something like that a recognizable object but most of the time it actually just looked like beautiful blue sea but then when we put the trawl through the water and pulled it up we saw that actually there were many many many pieces of tiny fragments of plastic that are so small and they've broken down but um through the sun and the waves making the plastic smaller and smaller and smaller because it's traveled such a long way um and ultimately plastic never disappears it just breaks down and down and down and that's really

what the big issue is and it's becoming plastic sand in effect yeah exactly and people call it a plastic soup and we were able to see some of it just with the naked eye as tiny fragments but some of it you have to look at under the microscope and actually amazingly one of the things I found extraordinary was at one point we found some microbeads the things that you use and facial facial washes so tiny tiny tiny pieces floating in this area that's one of the most remote places on the planet so we were closer to humans on a space station than we were to people on land you know we hadn't seen a, we didn't see a boat for three weeks. Why do they gather there? What's going on? Well, luckily we had a geography teacher on board. Andy?

One of the things about the expedition was that we all came from different professions. And so one of the people was a geography teacher and she was going to explain that it's the ocean currents that we have, we have one ocean, it's all interconnected, but we have all these currents that are pushing things around and act like whirlpools. And there are five main gyres in the world and then smaller ones dotted around. And so it's a bit like when you pull the plug out of the bath,

they go around and accumulate in this place. And yeah, it's the densest accumulation of ocean plastic in the world and that's where it is okay so you were on this boat with with women many of whom hadn't met before that must have been interesting you had scientists you know you're the director making a film of all of this there were vloggers all kinds of women how did it work out yeah so it was so um the expedition was organized by x expedition and emily um and Emily Penn, the co-founder, has been on this mission for years to take women to sea to see what the real issue with ocean plastics are and taking people from all different professions.

So like you said, we had scientists on board, we had a geography teacher, we had an engineer, we had packaging designer, we had recycling expert. That was me. And yeah, we hadn't. And the idea is to see the issue of ocean plastics firsthand, and what it really is, and to look at where the solutions are to it. And yeah, we hadn't met before getting on the boat. And we were all there because we really, really wanted to do this. And we're all really passionate and there with our own idea of what we were going to do um but actually some people were saying before we left you know oh it's going to be so intense you're on this essentially quite small boat and there's no way of getting off or

you know going for a walk around the block when you need a breather but emily did a really good job of setting the tone when we get got on and was saying, you know, it's going to be really hard at times, but you just need to look out for each other and see if you're OK and be kind to each other. And it goes a long way and it did. And I think we're bonded to each other for the rest of our lives. And X Trillion is being screened around the UK and globally. Just check out the X Trillion website for details.

And remember, you can enjoy Woman's Hour any hour of the day. If you can't join us live at 10am during the week, just subscribe to The Daily Podcast. It's free via BBC Sounds. And if there's a subject or an item you'd like to hear discussed on Woman's Hour, feel free to get in touch with us. You can email us via our website. Still to come on the programme, we'll be discussing perinatal suicide.

Now, what do Arsenal's Beth Mead, Chelsea's Sam Kerr and captain of the Lionesses, Leah Williamson, have in common? Well, they're members of what's known as the ACL club, having all injured their knee ligament whilst on the pitch. The ACL, which stands for anterior cruciate ligament, is one of the key ligaments in the knee joints. It's common to tear it during sports that involve sudden changes in direction, like football. Research shows that female footballers are up to six times more likely to suffer this injury compared to their male counterparts. A new study is being launched by Leeds Beckett University,

working with the likes of Nike, teams in the Women's Super League and the Professional Footballers Association to investigate this further. Former England defender and now women's football executive at the PFA, Fern Whelan, explained why this research is needed. I think because now we've got more of an eye on the women's game. We know that it happened before when I was playing, when it wasn't so professional, when there wasn't cameras at every single game and there wasn't thousands of fans in the stadium. So it's not something new but the the fact that the game is now professional and we're asking players

to be elite athletes and train six up to six times a week that is new and that's something we want to delve into and see if that's having any kind of effect on players and you know the conditions that they're working in well why is this risk factor so high is physiology to blame or rather a previous lack of investment in the women's game? I was joined on Thursday by Andy Williams, knee surgeon to the sporting stars at Fortis. It's a clinic here in London. He's conducted ACL operations on the

likes of Manchester City's Chloe Kelly and Manchester United's Aoife Mannion and Emma Samways who's a player for the third tier team Hashtag United in Essex. She tore her ACL in February of this year. I was playing against Halifax in the semi-final of the Women's National League Cup. And I think, well, the pitch was deemed nearly unplayable, very muddy pitch.

And in about the 70th minute, my foot got stuck in mud and I've twisted outwards and just heard a pop straight away um continued trying to play for five minutes but then had to hob off in the end what was it like receiving that diagnosis pretty terrible to be honest because I think I was trying to tell myself it wasn't that I've seen obviously injuries of like Beth Mead and Leah Williamson they go down sort of crying straight away getting stretched off the pitch but I actually walked off, was walking for the next 10 days. But then when it didn't get better, I got an MRI scan and then got told by email that I've got high-grade ACL tear.

And, I mean, they're at the top of the game. You play in a third-tier team, and you're also a police officer for your day job. what does it what's this injury meant in terms of your career uh well as soon as i got told i got the acl i had to go on to restricted duties meaning i couldn't go out um on front line and then obviously since i've had surgery on the 12th of april and i haven't been able to go back to work yeah i'm just still recovering and i think for the next nine to twelve months i'll be either off sick or having to be on restricted duties still goodness me i'm going to bring andy here uh in here andy what happens exactly when you tear your acl when you

when it's injured so usually it is a result of an unplanned or um something goes wrong with rotation so the femur the thigh bone will slip off the back of the shin bone. And as that happens, it tends to be restrained by the anterior cruciate ligament. It gets tighter and tighter and then pop. About 75% of people will be aware of that. And it breaks, then snaps back into place. And there's a huge spectrum of injuries. Some people stretch it off, and other people can carry on even.

But it's a very, very important injury to diagnose early and treat properly. Why are women disproportionately affected? Yes, there's a lot of interest because of the high profile players have injuries, particularly the last year or so. And there are probably some factors which create increased risk, maybe related menstrual cycles, certainly for other injuries that's the case, also the shape of the bones and how the limb lines up but I do wonder if effectively blaming

women as somehow being frail may not be the whole story and there are also, I think this is a manifestation of really sexual discrimination in that many of the women footballers I've treated over the years have been less muscled, less athletic than the men. And the simple fact is that the interest and

the money is behind the men's game. Boys are picked up very young. From that moment on, they get the best training, best strength conditioning. And so they're turned into athletes who can cope with the rigors of the game. Whereas the women are able to join late, and they don't have all that preparation, and now being expected to play at high level twice a week, they simply haven't been given the chance to develop the bodies that cope. And maybe in 10 or 15 years, if we can improve equality, then you will find much less instance of female ACL and all these other factors the angles of the bones the menstrual cycle etc may actually quite quite a small predisposing factor well you mentioned that

because there has been some new research in the press and it's came it's been it's out today actually a study that followed a women's club for three years that suggests that players are more likely to get injured at certain points in their menstrual cycle sick pitlays were six times more likely to pick up a muscle injury in the days leading up to their period. Yeah so that seems significant unfortunately it was only on 26 players and so it's of interest but I wouldn't say yet we could accept that as absolute fact but there probably is something in it. When it comes to the operation and recovery do men and women differ here? Not really I mean the essential is that the surgery is done well. And following the surgery, the critical thing is restoring muscle strength and control. And so the rehabilitation is not only exhausting, but it's very, very important.

And if the women start off with less good nerve muscle control, then they probably need more. Well, you know, Emma's going through it right now. How is it? I mean, it must be not only are you in pain, the psychological impact of you having to take time off work and not be able to play football. Yeah, I mean, as soon as I found out, I did straight away, I was very upset

and thought my life was going to be on hold for a year, essentially. But I think from having the surgery, the initial two weeks of quite a lot of pain, I saw my physio for the last first time last night um and I think just that mental side of saying like here's your program this is what stage you need to be at each month um has set me goals now and I think mentally I can now start looking towards that and just trying to improve that each time. And how was the process of getting your operation did you go through the NHS was? Was that possible? No well I mean it was possible but when I went to the GP they said

would I like physio or a consultant appointment so that kind of worried me straight away and then they said it was 12 to 18 months just wait for surgery so I think for me it wasn't really an option because it would have been 12 to 18th month wait and then another 12 months recovery. So that's two and a half years potentially out of football and my job. I set up a GoFundMe page in the end because I saw that other footballers at my level did that and I managed to raise £5,500 for my surgery.

Andy, what do you think about that? It's not an ideal situation. No, it's shocking, I think, being blunt. I mean, the delay to surgery is important because between the original injury and the operation, there is a risk of instability and doing more damage to the joint. And, you know, it's an indictment of the system. And, you know, a first-team male player wouldn't be expecting to wait and they'd be insured and covered by the club.

Women now are certainly getting better treatment but it's as goes back to my point about sex discrimination really uh so what can we do to better support female footballers who join the acl club i think we've got to popularize the fact that this is a very big injury and uh even though we're very good at treating it these days, it has lifelong implications. And that we need to look at the research to make sure we understand why they're getting the injuries. But I suspect it may well be because they're not being given a fair crack of the whip from the beginning. They never get the opportunities the boys or the men get. I want to wish you a speedy recovery, Emma.

Thank you very much. How are you? I'm OK. No, I'm better now. I think I can see the light at the end do you want to ask Andy a quick question we've got like the top we've got the the top doctor in the land here yeah I mean my one question I think what I'm missing the most is about running so I would like to know what stage do you think running can be a goal for me so usually around three months you can start running, so around 12 weeks, but you should only run if you've got a good single leg squat on both legs

because when you run, as you land, you absorb impact through a good controlled muscle activity. So if you're very wobbly, then I would delay the running maybe to four months. That's something to work towards. Yeah, wonderful. I would love that we've been able to facilitate that. There you go.

Emma Samway is getting some very good advice from Andy Williams. And we got a statement from Halifax saying, we of course wish Emma a speedy recovery and hope that she receives the treatment and care she deserves to get her back playing as soon as possible. It's never nice to see a player from any team have this type or any kind of injury. Talk about being a new mother often comes alongside lots of gushing

about that amazing bond with your newborn baby, how much they sleep, how much you don't, who in the family they resemble. But one thing we don't talk about as much is the mental health of pregnant women and new mums and what happens when it deteriorates quickly. Perinatal suicide, while thankfully rare, makes up 39% of maternal deaths in the UK. That's deaths that happen within 42 days of the end of pregnancy. So why does it happen and what can we do? King's College London have conducted the first study of its kind into perinatal suicide, looking at the experiences and thoughts of women who've attempted to take their own lives. Claire was joined by the lead researcher, Dr Abigail Easter, and Crystal Wilkinson, who herself made a suicide attempt not long after giving birth. Here we hear from Crystal,

who explained to Claire how her wider family had experienced mental health problems. So my mum had had severe perinatal mental illness after both of her pregnancies and she was hospitalised both times. We lost her when I was a teenager and I had had prior mental health problems, various different prior mental health problems. So yeah, absolutely on our radar. But we'd actually spoke to a specialist perinatal psychiatrist even before getting pregnant. You know, it's kind of, this is is a history how do we go about this do I need to be on maybe medication had a plan that um you know I'd be not taking any medication during pregnancy but they'd put me on preventative medication at birth and I'd be closely monitored and my pregnancy was fantastic my birth was fantastic and the first

three weeks were fantastic completely in love you know that bond, that rush of love that everyone talks about until my husband went back to work and it was me that was responsible for a baby. And that's kind of where I just fell apart because I don't know, everything that I had in my mind that I'd be in control, we'd do these activities, you know, I'd know what I'm doing. I just felt wasn't there.

I just felt completely out of control completely lost um really scared um and it just deteriorated very very quickly I didn't want to be on my own with him so I was like driving around to my dad's house or friend's house just to to have somebody for a few hours that it wasn't just me in desperation asking please let me go in the mother and baby unit and they did they admitted me um and I think at that point I was expecting that I would feel better that it'd all be sorted out quite quickly and I didn't feel that straight away I felt just even more kind of isolated even more scared and I think the big thing for me was that I couldn't really articulate what was going on in my head and it wasn't what I expected so I'd expected depression or I'd expected even like a manic sort

of feeling but it was just fear it was just I can't be a mum I don't know how to be a mum I've lost my identity there's no going back trapped but yeah when I was in the mother and baby unit I was desperate to be out so I'd be like trying to they said I could go home for weekends with my husband um so so he kind of like well I don't want to seem too bad so they don't let me go home so you know and then when I was at home with my husband I'd be like I need to be back in the baby and there was I just felt there was no way out you know nothing nothing I couldn't see anything getting better I thought they're never gonna let me be a mum you know my husband's probably gonna see that I'm no good and leave me I'm never to be able to go back to work um yeah and that kind of just and how did you break that cycle you say you were on medication uh post-birth is that

correct so how did it finally level out it was difficult to know um it was a long process you know it was a long process um and lots of support from different different people so I've got a very fortunate that I've got an amazing close family and friends um you know a number of medical professionals were involved medication was involved um I actually had a really really supportive return to work so that's kind of one of the things I'm trying to sort of talk about at the moment is like workplaces need to be doing more about this and um managers to be aware because I think you know if any one of those relationships or parts of my identity had been taken away from me in that rebuilding phase, I would have probably tried again and I might have been successful with ending my life.

So, yeah, I think it was a long process. It did take a long time. How do you feel now? I feel like I'm in the best part of my life ever. The bond I have with my little boy is incredible. He is the love of my life. I'm so proud of him. And I don't know how we have the bond that we have because I wasn't there at the beginning for a lot of the time.

And even when I was there, it was like his dad was his person who looked after him and I was kind of trying to help a bit. But now I feel like every other mum you know that I see and yeah I just if anyone if anyone is listening who can relate to anything of what I said just please hold on and please talk to somebody because it does it does get better. That was Crystal Wilkinson thank you to her for sharing her story and you can hear that full interview on BBC Sounds the episode was from Monday's programme the 29th April. And if you've been affected by anything you've heard in that conversation, there are

support links and resources on our website. That's all from me, but do make sure you join me on Monday at 10am for our bank holiday special on how to age well. I'll be speaking to a fantastic panel of guests, GP Dr Radha Modgill, comedian Kelly Beaton, writer Pippa Stacey and author and psychologist Dr Sharon Blackie. You will not want to miss it. Enjoy the rest of your weekend. I'm Sarah Treleaven and for over a year I've been working on one of the most complex stories I've ever covered. There was somebody out there who's faking pregnancies.

I started like warning everybody. Every doula that I know. It was somebody out there who's faking pregnancies. I started like warning everybody. Every doula that I know. It was fake. No pregnancy. And the deeper I dig, the more questions I unearth. How long has she been doing this? What does she have to gain from this? From CBC and the BBC World Service, The Con, Caitlin's Baby.

It's a long story, settle in. Available now.