Woman's Hour - Weekend Woman's Hour: Dame Maureen Lipman; Women feeling the Cold; Singer Imelda May.

Episode Date: April 17, 2021

Actor and writer Dame Maureen Lipman recently lost Guido Castro, her partner of more than thirteen years, having already been widowed in 2004 when her husband Jack Rosenthal died after 30 years of marriage. She tells us how you come to terms with such a loss after so long.Why do some people live in vans? Is it to save money to put down a deposit on a house or is it a lifestyle choice? We hear from George McKimm who lived in her van until 2020 and Missy who currently lives in a van with her husband, daughter and their pets. In 2018, an art and textiles teacher from a secondary school in north west London won the one million dollar Global Teacher Prize. Andria Zafirakou shares her approach to teaching and her passion for the power of visual art to create confidence and unlock trauma in young people.This month marks 18 years since the legal 'right to request' flexible working came into effect for parents of children aged under six, or 18 if they have a disability. We hear from Sarah Jackson OBE, a workplace consultant and visiting professor at Cranfield University School of Management and Rhonda D'Ambrosio who used 'right to request' in 2004. Do women really feel the cold more than men? A question for Clare Eglin, principal lecturer in Human and Applied Physiology with the University of Portsmouth. Plus Amanda Owen, Shepherdess and star of Channel 5's 'Our Yorkshire Farm' tells us about how she copes working outdoors.Irish singer, song writer Imelda May has performed alongside the like of Lou Reed, Bono, Smokey Robinson and Van Morrison. She talks about her new album new album - 11 Past the Hour – and the contributions from feminist thinkers and activists.Presenter: Anita Rani Producer: Paula McFarlane Editor: Beverley Purcell

This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK. I'm Natalia Melman-Petrozzella, and from the BBC, this is Extreme Peak Danger. The most beautiful mountain in the world. If you die on the mountain, you stay on the mountain. This is the story of what happened when 11 climbers died on one of the world's deadliest mountains, K2, and of the risks we'll take to feel truly alive. If I tell all the details, you won't believe it anymore. Extreme. Peak danger. Listen wherever you get your podcasts.

Hello and welcome to Weekend Woman's Hour. Art teacher Andrea Zafirakou won the $1 million Global Teacher Prize in 2018. She tells us how she spent the money and the power of visual art to create confidence in her pupils. Principal lecturer at the University of Portsmouth, Claire Elgin, and shepherdess and star of Channel 5's Our Yorkshire Farm, Amanda Owen, will discuss whether women really do feel the cold more than men and what women can do to keep warm.

I had to sit and wait because I was whistling for the sheep to move down the valley and my sheepdog was sat next to me and I was using my sheepdog as a hand warmer. I literally was putting my hands under her fur just to get some of that residual heat. I mean, I'm somebody who uses a balaclava as everyday workwear. I know that feeling. We hear about the progress made since the legal right

to request flexible working came into effect 18 years ago, and Imelda May tells us about the feminist thinkers and activists who feature on her new album. But first, the Queen and Prince Philip were married for nearly 74 years. Her family have said his loss will leave a huge void in her life. But how do you come to terms with such a loss after so long? Actor, writer and comedian Dame Maureen Lipman recently lost Guido Castro, her partner of more than 13 years, having already been widowed in 2004 when her husband Jack Rosenthal died after 30 years of marriage. Maureen spoke about the loss of her partner Guido. Yes, about 10 weeks now since Guido

passed. I'm not the world's foremost authority and, you know, it makes me think, oh, don't link up with Maureen Lipman because you'll die no no but you but you are preposterous but you can't you know you can't just look at someone and say oh well he was 99 he had a good life or he was 84 or 90 well you can't do that because i think the the thing that somehow protects all of us you and me and everyone life, is that we don't think about the possibility of our dying. So really, every day is full, for most people, of some kind of hope, optimism. And even in the darkest hour, you really don't think anyone's going to go. Guido, he did catch Covid, but that's not necessarily the reason that he went.

A lot of these Covid deaths, it's Covid related. No, let me get through my remorse because he was in a care home I was working and his family decided that was best. And so one can only see him one day a week for a short time. And it was masked. I mean, everything, every death in COVID is completely different from ever in my life before. I mean, God knows it was bad enough watching Jack's journey through myeloma or even sort of hearing on a telephone call that your mother's died because that's a terrible shock, great for her, but a terrible shock for those who don't have a chance, you know, even to say goodbye, let alone touch. But with COVID, we didn't have the beauty of Jack's death in a way in a hospice where everybody was so wonderful to us and let us be there night and day.

It was this business of sitting there masked, which I know so many people have gone through with gloves on the floor because the bed was low, the daughters and myself, and still not really, still thinking he was going to pull through because he had had a jab in the care home. And then two days later, he got COVID. But he came through that. He was really strong. But it just, this virus wrecks a lot of your strength, inner strength. And so, yes, as we say in show business, I was with him till the half. One of the things I think it's hard, I was trying to say at the beginning, I think it's hard for people to realize that being a widow or a partner, whatever one would like to call it, is, you know,

I think Catherine Whitehorn said it, you are a refugee in a strange country. You don't know the rules or you don't know the language. And it takes a long time. Grief is incremental. And I think, you know, the Queen's already gone back to work, but she has a steel in a core running through her. It's every day waking up and thinking that responsibility is no longer mine to get to the end of the day in a studio in Manchester and ring up saying, how is he today?

And I'm sure that Her Majesty's been going through that now. Preparation is great, but it doesn't help. It's still a terrible shock when there's that hole in your life. You don't have that care anymore. And also, you know, there's always remorse because you could always have done better don't you know and I live with that you could always. Oh Maureen I'm sorry take a moment have a sip of have a sip of tea is that a Buckingham Palace mug? Coincidentally

clever girl it is a Buckingham Palace mug and I didn't plan that at all. Well, look, if I can make you smile just for a moment in the middle of this. And I'm sorry because it is very fresh, your recent loss. And you are talking as someone who has been through it before, but you're going through it again and it's different. And that's what I wanted to ask about. I don't know quite how to put this, but I'll go for it. Do you get any better at it?

I'm not going to get an award for it, Emma, that's for sure. I actually, I went to the grounds where both Jack and Guido were buried and I couldn't find Guido's grave. And I literally said to a friend, I don't understand it. I've lost the plot. I didn't. I wasn't trying to be funny. No.

That helps, you know. All these things help. Just if you have someone who's been bereaved by COVID or by natural causes, just don't think that they're better after a few weeks and that you can then sort of roll your eyes when they talk about the person they spent 35 years with or whatever. Talk about that person. Say, do you remember when? Give them a chance to be brave.

Give them a chance to weep on Women's Hour. Maureen Lipman, do you feel that there is a way that you could say that you do carry on? Because you are busy, but is work the answer in many ways? Or what has it been for you for putting one foot in front of the other? Well, I suppose when Jack died, I had his work to promote. I finished his book and, you know, there's always a lot of practical stuff to do. And that kind of keeps your head above water. You know, and there's a reason for the Jewish method of shiver,

sitting there every night for a week and talking about that person. It's a very sensible religion. And, you know, that's not really been possible. The funeral was a bit odd, although I must say Rabbi did brilliantly. And we did have a Zoom shiver, and that has some sort of advantages. You know, you really do see into people's souls sometimes, don't you, on a Zoom. And I know that I'm a lucky person, actually. Martin Sherman, the writer, said to me,

you are a lucky woman to have lost two such wonderful men. It's a very – but don't assume that all your mates have that have empathy empathy is a gift and you can get better at it but i don't think you can have it if you haven't got it so there are many bereavements in the world there are you know people losing children i think is a totally different thing in a way, because you're never, ever going to be the same again. But you have to go on. You can't be a gloom in society. With your experience and perhaps your friends' experiences around you, do you see any differences around how women grieve to how men grieve? Maybe you don't expect the same from your sons as you do from your daughters.

I've got my son's pretty much a sensitive soul, like his dad, and the kids, that's another thing. Don't exclude the children from this, because my merry little nine-year-old Ava said, I get very sad about Guido, and I saw no basis for that. We didn't see that in her behavior. And I remember the other thing when Jack died was that people would ring up and say to Amy, how's your mom? And Amy was Jack's best friend, but it didn't occur to them to say, how are you doing, darling? So that's another thing. It isn't just the partner. It's the hole they've left in everybody's life.

The wonderful Dame Maureen Lipman speaking with Emma there. And your emails came in. Barbara says, I was widowed very suddenly when we were both aged 58 after 20 years of a happy marriage. I'd cared for my husband, who became a paraplegic in our second year of marriage. I went from someone who had to think about his needs and being a carer to a widow overnight. Suddenly, the noise of the wheelchair had gone, and the house was silent. Six years have passed, and I miss him every day, but I don't miss his disability and the life forced on him. Nothing can fill the void, and no friendships or relationships can ever replace the loss. We didn't have children together by choice but I don't think it makes much of a difference to the grief. I found some friends very kind and supportive but I'm the only one

widowed so they don't really understand how it feels. I think the most important thing is for people to acknowledge your loss. I went out about a month after he died and no one mentioned him once. They said my hair was cut differently. I was hurt and also furious. I think one has to really go through the pain of grief. I didn't rush to book a cruise or move house but slowly made some changes in our home together. I'm glad I didn't move as you carry your grief with you. It doesn't disappear but there is no quick fix. The Queen was incredibly lucky to have had the years of marriage, but her loss will be acute and no one can fill that gap for her. It will be a lonely time. And Wendy wrote in to say, just a few brief comments. I was widowed in 2003 when my husband

died shortly after his illness. I was 47. My friends were amazingly supportive both during his illness and after his death, as was my sister-in-law and her husband. Practical support was the best. Walking the dog with a mate or friends offering to walk him when I couldn't or didn't feel up to it, cooking me a meal, baking me a cake, taking me out for a glass of wine. Gently keeping in touch without expectation, offering a shoulder to cry on when required. Things not to do,

don't leave a phone or electronic message saying give me a call, just say you'll call back. The bereaved person may not feel strong enough to reply, sometimes they can barely get out of bed in the morning. Keep keeping in touch. Grief doesn't just melt away after the funeral, if anything it gets worse. Be selfless, sympathetic and thoughtful. And if you'd like to get in touch with us with anything that you hear on the programme, please do so. You can email us by going to our website or get in touch via our social media, which is at BBC Woman's Hour. Now, in last week's BAFTA's Nomadland, a drama about a woman who decides to live in her van, won four prizes, including Best Film, Best Actress for its star Frances McDormand, and Best Director for Chloe

Zhao, who is only the second woman to win Best Director in 53 years, and the first woman of colour. Good honour. The film follows Fern, a woman who loses her job following the financial crash. Her husband has also recently passed away, and so she decides to sell her house, pack up her life in a van, and travel to find work, living as a nomad. My dad used to say, what's remembered lives. It's been many years since I started out for that goal I maybe spent too much of my life just remembering.

What the nomads are doing is not that different than what the pioneers did. That was a clip from Nomadland. Can't wait to see it. Now, the idea of living in a van is not as unusual as you may think, and many women are doing it. If you search under the hashtag vanlife on Instagram, there are over 9.5 million posts with seductive photos of people who've refurbished cosy vans for holidays and adventures abroad, but also those who've traded living in houses for a permanent life on the road. Some are doing it temporarily to save money to put down a deposit, some because

rents are too high and it allows them to live more economically. For others, it's a lifestyle choice offering more freedom and a connection with nature. I was joined by George McKim, who lived in her van from 2016 to 2020, and Missy, who currently lives with her husband Dom, daughter Rosie and all their pets. They've been on the road since 2019 in their Sprinter van, which they call the Sub. I started by asking Missy what made her and her family decide to pack everything up and go and live in a van.

It actually did start with a hashtag van life on Instagram. We were, I spent a couple of hours, I came across it were uh i spent a couple of hours i came across it by accident spent a couple of hours viewing all the beautiful shots of people living right there on the beach or their shots through the van that they uh at the sea and the sunset and i went to my husband and i said hey look at this wouldn't this be amazing and he went well actually that's on my old age bucket list and uh i don't And three or four months later, we ended up starting to do out our van. Well, I found myself in the hashtag van life vortex yesterday because there are 9.5 million pictures and they are amazing. But it's Instagram.

You know, these are the pictures that people want you to see. What is the reality? Is it as glamorous and gorgeous as it seems? It can be very much like that. But I think obviously on Instagram, you know, nobody's going to put a photo up of when their toilet overflowed or when they ran out of water and had to spend six hours driving around getting hot and flustered. So there are the downsides, of course,

but generally it's as fantastic as it looks. What were the practicalities? What did you have to sell up? What did you have to get rid of? You know, how freeing was it? We lived in a rented house, so we didn't have to sell up or anything like that we did have to get rid of quite a lot of stuff we were um quite normal people and and we would we worked and then when we had some spare money we'd go out and we'd go shopping so we'd buy stuff and

you'd come home to your house and you put your stuff on your shelves and then eventually you need to buy some new shelves and you put your more stuff on that so there was a lot of stuff to get rid of and at first it was really really hard and you don't know what to get rid of and the more you lose the freer we felt and the more we were able to chuck away and bin and we put a little amount of stuff in storage it felt fantastic actually. I'm going to bring George in. George you had your own business your own house what made you decide to give it all up for van life it was a random trip to iceland i took a trip to iceland rented a van and i had a van back home already but i never thought of living in it and then i was traveling around iceland i was like wow like you could actually just just live in it like all the stresses of like work and all of that kind of just like drifted away and i got back got back to england

and uh decided to sell the house sell the business and live in live in the v-dev caddy i had at the time and what do you do to the van to make it livable just what's in the van describe the van to us that you lived in well the the first van was very basic it literally just had a bed in it and a camp and stove and um I traveled Europe for for about a year in in that and then I come back to England and I was like oh I kind of need a little bit of an upgrade because uh it would be nice to be able to stand up and get dressed rather than lie down and get dressed but um yeah the van that I have now you can stand up in it it's more it's more like a home than a than a home than a back of a van with a mattress in. Yeah, because if you look at some, like again,

if you look at some of the interiors of these vans, they're beautifully done. And I've seen yours as well, Missy. It's very cosy, very homely, very colourful. Is it expensive to do up a van, George? No, not at all. I think I spent the same amount of money on the van as I did put into it.

And it's less than a deposit for a house to buy a van and do it up. not at all i think i spent the same amount of money on the van as i did put into it and then it's less than a deposit for a house to to buy a van and do it up it depends on on how far you want to take it because i've seen some vans that like you probably spend about 50 grand on them but there's yeah you can do it very cheap as well how do you get your post george um i didn't really actually have any posts but uh i have my address back at my parents' house. So if there's any that need covering, they pick it up and send me a photo of it and then do it like that. And Missy, tell us about your van. It's an ex-DHL delivery van.

So when we first bought it, it had the metal security bulkhead in it and all the shelves on the back that would have held the parcels. So we had to rip all that out first. And then my husband and I built it out together we'd never done anything like it before but he was good at woodwork and I learned how to do 12 volt electrics and we built it together it took us about eight months but during that time we were each running our own businesses and home educating our daughter and I used to run girl guiding units so I think you could do it a lot faster than that if you wanted to. And where do you go to the toilet? Where do you shower? Like, do you just drive wherever you want,

park wherever you want? How does it work? Well, there's a variety of choices for those things. Some people choose not to have them in their van so that they have more space. We have a cubicle, which is actually behind me there, and it's a wet room. So you could have a shower with hot water.

We have friends who do. We chose not to, but we have a portable shower unit that we can take into that room and we can shower inside if we want to. There's also a toilet in there, so we've got privacy for that. And I really like the sound of it for a holiday. In 2018, an art and textiles teacher from a secondary school in northwest London won the $1 million Global Teacher Prize. Andrea Zafiraku impressed the judges with her approach to teaching

and caring for the children at Alperton Community School in Brent, where over 80 languages are spoken and deprivation levels are high. Mending uniforms, calling social services, shielding vulnerable teens from gangs all form part of the job in such a school. But her chief passion has always been in the power of visual art to create confidence and unlock trauma in her pupils. Andrea has now spent the prize money and she's written a book called Those Who Can Teach, what it takes to make the next generation. Andrea told us how she spent

the money from the Global Teacher Prize. The money has been spent on creating a charity called Artists in Residence. And what we do, we create opportunities to get role models, the artists into schools to work in diverse communities across the country to inspire our young people in a career in arts and just to have joy as well. Career in arts. Now talk to us about that. You keep a laminated document, I'm told, in your top drawer for anyone who says the arts aren't important. You can't work in them. So when I was younger and I had to choose whether or not to do GCSEs, I knew I wanted to take art GCSE, but I went to my parents with a yellow card which I was given and I had to choose which options to take and when I said mum I want to do and dad I want to do GCSE art they said

why what what jobs can you get in the arts no no no it's a waste of time no no do history do geography be like your sister be a doctor be a solicitor and um and that was that killed that actually killed me Emma my heart just broke and um I've noticed that that that challenge that battle our young people are still facing so one of the students and the students which I know oh my god you're gifted you're gonna you know I can see you being incredible design and architect you're going to be so you know you've got this but they have to take those and have those difficult conversations at home so that laminate sheet just i'll pull it out when i say look this is what you can become this is real this is a real job this is a real profession you can make money doing this and be happy so um yeah that's part of it and that's why

also you've spent that million dollars around 700000, on getting artists to go into schools to help people see it. Because our education system isn't tailored, even from your side of things, on the teaching side of things. You're not incentivised, are you, to prioritise that as a focus or subject? Of course, the pushback would be, especially those from poorer backgrounds, you need to make sure that they've got what's called the basics. English, maths, perhaps science. of brat guys you need to make sure that they've got what's called the basics english maths perhaps science that's right but sometimes you need the skills to access those basics you need the confidence you need to feel that you have got um resilience that you have got communication skills and these are the skills which the arts naturally give you naturally naturally give young people. And I will really challenge that because I've seen it in my classroom.

I've seen how students have come in who I've got these labels that they can't or this is this is what they should achieve. They've just blew us out of blew it out of the ballpark with how well they have achieved by finding that by finding their their their thing you know that that that kind of that golden glow that motivational factor in an art room or in a music room or a drama space you talk about they come into the room of course people haven't been together a lot this year in in classrooms or generally how have you and your kids in brent coped in the last year because I should say in regular times, you've done things like gone out, bought school uniform for children, washed others. One boy incredibly wore the same shoes in year 11 that he was wearing when he started in year seven. A lot of stories that you share through your writing. But how has it been for your pupils in the last year?

I mean, the school's been open. You know, when they say schools are closed actually we've been open and the amount of pastoral care that the school has provided for all of our community has just been incredible. I mean we've got a record somewhere but approximately 4,000 phone calls have been made to our young people just to check in um and you know it's been really it's been incredible what the teachers have done how we've adapted teachers across the whole country how we have adapted into speaking and teaching and learning this really difficult language of technology and online teaching which is so out of our comfort zone and I've actually hated teaching online I could say that I have become a better teacher

because I've had to skill up and and learn new things but I've really not enjoyed it Emma it's just going back to school in March was the best day of my life I think really and for many teachers as well yeah it was just so great to be in that environment with the young people, with my colleagues. It was so, yeah, this is normal. This is how it should be, yeah. Emma speaking with the inspiring Andrea Zafirakou there. Now, this month marks 18 years since the legal right to request flexible working came into effect for parents of children aged under six

or 18 if they have a disability. Progress over the years meant that by 2014, the right to request was made available to everyone, regardless of whether they're a parent or a carer. We're not talking about the right to work from home, as many people have done throughout the pandemic. Flexible working is something very different. Sarah Jackson OBE, who led the charity Working Families for 24 years, is now a workplace consultant and visiting professor at Cranfield University School of Management. Rhonda D'Ambrosio used Right to Request in 2004.

Her daughter is now 17. Sarah Jackson started by explaining what flexible working is. Flexible working is simply not, it's just not Monday to Friday, 9 to 5 on the premises. So your flexibility could be one or a combination of where you work, when you work, how long you work. And it's been interesting seeing, you know, when in 2003, everybody thought that flexible working meant part-time. Because of the pandemic now, everybody thinks that flexible working means working from home. It doesn't. It's about common sense. What does the job need in terms of when, where, how long? And what do you need? What does your family need? And how do the two match?

Can it mean working fewer hours? It could mean working fewer hours. Definitely. That's part-time working or job sharing. Sometimes your part-time job is not flexible. So it's flexible at the point you're negotiating it. If you're saying to your manager, I don't want to work full time week anymore. I need to work for my family every morning, say. A lot of women will work an inflexible. So flexibility really means having some choice and control over when, where and how long you work and agreeing that with your manager. Take us back to 18 years ago. What was the landscape like then and how did this come about? Okay, so 18 years ago, obviously the right to request flexible working is just a right to ask.

And so that was always there. You could always say to your boss, I'd like to work differently. And in fact, some companies had already been taking action on this. So in fact, the first one that really made change happen was the then Lloyds TSB Bank. Back in 1999, they introduced something called work options, which just said anyone who works for us, talk to us about how you'd rather work. And that was irrelevant whether you had children or not. So there were trailblazing organisations and there were also trailblazing working women like Patricia Hewitt and Harriet Harman who made it happen. So they got into government in 97 and they said, women need to be able to work flexibly, to be able to continue to work and to have children. So in 2003, this new legislation came in, very restricted.

You've got to have a child under the age of six or a disabled child under the age of 18, as you said. And then over the years, campaigners and women together got that extended until 2014 comes along and everyone now, if you're an employee, has the right to work flexibly or the right to ask to work flexibly. It was trailblazing to do, Rhonda, and you did do it. You did pluck up the courage, and I'm sure it took courage, to ask.

What was that like? Yes, going back 17 years, I remember I did feel quite confident because of the conversations that I'd had internally with my then manager and the person I was speaking to from human resources. And so I was quite confident about asking because the way in which the right to request was introduced to me. But of course, being a new mum, having my first child, you know, a baby daughter, it's still, you know, there was no absolute guarantee that I would get that request accepted. So of course, nerve wracking from that point of view.

And you were working in recruitment and you had also, tell us about a promotion you were expecting to have. Yes. So I joined this organisation specifically to work in what we call a managing consultant role so a role where I would be leading people but I'd initially joined because they were a new office in a new region and the management role wasn't immediately available so I'd gone in as a senior recruiter and the understanding that was in play that I had in writing through my interview process was that once my manager moved on to her different role, that I would take that team. And throughout that process, I fell pregnant with Lucia and had a conversation with Human Resources when we were discussing, you know, my pregnancy and the options. And I was being informed what my rights were. And they asked me, well, what role, you know, do you think you

would want to come back to? And I was quite surprised. I was quite shocked because, you know, for me, my career path was set out. It was no secret that I joined there to be a managing consultant. And a number of individuals that had taken me through that interview process had subsequently left the business and it became a bit of a battle and you know we had some good conversations around objectives and things that needed to be achieved to make that promotion happen and there was another individual in the business with me at the same time who was going through a very very similar thing and she didn't have to go through the same kind of process that I did. And she didn't have to hit the same types of objectives that I did.

And the only difference between us at that time was that I was pregnant. You did end up leaving to set up your own business. So that's the ultimate flexibility, you could argue, although there's no flexibility because it all falls on you. But in a way, it worked and then it didn't. Yeah, absolutely. I applied for flexible working and I had a very supportive manager. I remember I had blood pressure and I've been to the doctor near the end of my pregnancy, ankles were very chunky. And he was very caring and sort of said, you must come in a bit later, leave a bit earlier.

However, the business and I think, you know, corporate workplace back then was somewhat different to the landscape that it is now. And my request for flexible working got declined. And that was very, very stressful for me. I was under the impression from the conversations that I'd had with him and other people in the business that my request to work three days a week would be supported. Once I'd made that request, I was quite confident. But when I sat down with the human resources director for my meeting, and

subsequently that got rejected, it was really challenging. I had a conversation with my manager whereby I think there was this assumption that I was going to leave the business because I couldn't get that flexibility. And that wasn't an option for me and my husband. And I mean, just to come back to Sarah here, has it changed? Has it got better? And I'm also very mindful that surely men have got to ask for this as well. Yes, men definitely have to ask for it. And I think what we've seen over the last 18 years is a pattern where women use the right to request far more than men do because they tend to be the primary carer and need the certainty. Men, when they do ask, are more employers to really actively start saying to their men, we know you want to be active fathers because there's a whole generation of young men who do want to be active fathers.

Please use the right to request flexible working, work flexibly if you can, because until men are enabled to be active fathers, we won't get equality at home and we certainly won't get equality in the workplace either. That was Sarah Jackson, OBE, and Rhonda D'Ambrosio. Now, last week, Emma mentioned how she always seemed to feel cold. I completely hear you, sister. Try being a Countryfile presenter from November through to April. Anyway, this prompted a listener, Kate, to get in touch. She emailed in to say, just responding to a throwaway line from Emma Barnett this morning, I live in sunny Lanzarote but constantly feel quite chilly.

I'm definitely not ill. Is this actually a thing? People on the beach here in swimwear, I have on a vest, at least a sweatshirt. Would love to know if this is common for women. While Claire Elgin is a principal lecturerurer in Human and Applied Physiology at the University of Portsmouth and Amanda Owen is a shepherdess and star of Channel 5's Our Yorkshire Farm, Claire Elgin started by answering the question, do women feel the cold more than men? Yes, generally women do feel colder than men and that's due to a number of reasons. Firstly, women tend to be smaller than men and so they've got a larger surface area to volume ratio. And therefore, they lose heat more quickly.

They also tend to have less muscle mass so they can produce less heat. So they've got a smaller boiler if you like to keep them warm. Oh, great. Yeah. So if we get men and women of the same size, same body fatness, same fitness, then those differences do tend to disappear. But that's fairly rare. Generally, men are larger, have more muscle mass. But women are also more sensitive to the cold in that their blood vessels constrict more quickly when they're in the cold. So their skin temperature falls, which is great

because that means that you don't lose as much heat to the environment. But unfortunately, it also means that you then feel colder because the temperature of your hands and feet are very important in determining how comfortable you feel with your environment and the temperature that you sense. For reasons I could never understand, cold water swimming, wild water swimming has really taken off and people getting in touch with varying experiences of this saying it helped them if they were a cold person before get better with it. You've looked at this, there's been experiments in this area. What do the first thing that people notice when they go into cold water is that they get this huge cold shock and their breathing increases. They find they can't hold

their breath. Their heart rate goes up and it's a big shock. If you repeatedly immerse yourself into cold water, that shock does reduce such that you can go in without having a big gasp into the cold water. And we also get other changes occurring in that you feel the water temperature doesn't feel as cold, you feel more comfortable. And that is why if you've done repeated swims, then you find being in cold water a lot more comfortable. But that's only up to a point because in cold water, you can lose heat very rapidly. Once your core temperature does start to fall, then you will feel uncomfortable and cold, but you need to get out before that happens. Other comments and

questions coming about hormones and oestrogen playing a part in our temperature. What can you say about that? Well, yes, certainly oestrogen is very important and higher levels of oestrogen will mean that your blood vessels in your hands and feet constrict more quickly. And also we know that the drop in oestrogen with menopause also has a big effect. So those hot flushes that we feel, that's mainly due to a reduction in oestrogen. Amanda, a shepherdess, what is it like for you? Do you feel the cold going out, you just described in very nippy climbs absolutely i do i mean i always think i have become acclimatized to it i feel like i'm almost

evolving into my environment i mean you can imagine i'm literally furring up i have no trouble with thinning eyebrows or anything like that because literally i feel like i'm adaptive to where i live you know i enjoy swimming outside and all the rest of it. But on a daily basis, I go out there in sub-zero temperatures. My hands, my extremities, I do have to wear gloves. And I wear wool, which is the perfect insulator, I feel, layer upon layer upon layer. But, of course, it's all to do with physical activity as well,

what you're actually doing. Standing around is just the worst thing. I mean, I was gathering three days ago up at Wissendill, bringing the sheep down. And I had to sit and wait because I was whistling for the sheep to move down the valley. And my sheepdog was sat next to me. And I was using my sheepdog as a hand warmer. I literally was putting my hands under her fur just to get some of that residual heat I mean I'm somebody who uses a balaclava as everyday workwear you know that is me two hats all the rest of it but you know I'm here to tell the tale you are fingers blue lips plenty of moisturizer how many layers do you wear when you get up in the morning? One, two. I'm not going to strip. Don't worry, people can't see this at home, but you can.

I've got four layers on at the moment, but I can go to another layer. But you see, again, it's striking that balance. If you put too many layers on and I end up looking like Marshmallow Man, then I can't actually operate and do things. So it's kind of striking the right balance I can feel when I'm almost losing my faculties I can feel it because it's so cold because it is so cold after we had six weeks of snow on the ground between Christmas and the middle of February and I was looking for sheep out at the moor and I was wearing ski goggles because you know that pain you get across the top of your forehead it was like ice cream had it was that it was agonizing it was like having micro dermabrasion on your face because the

snow was blowing at you and I was just I was snuggled up inside but I had to get it right because I would overheat because I couldn't move you know you're in one step of hypothermia at the end end of the day you know people think about this country as being very, you know, very safe and there's no places that you can lose your life. If you get it wrong, it's very quick. It doesn't take long for you to start almost losing your senses. You can find your sensibilities dwindling. You're not thinking quite right. So you have to protect against that. My advice is thermals all the time, even knickers. Jane emailed in to say, and what about those of us who are permanently too hot? I'm past menopause, but even in winter,

we have very little heating, 17 centigrade max in the house. I'm in a permanent sweat. My family were mostly the same. My aunt, even at the end of her life, 95, was always too hot. No heating on except in very cold weather. Windows open on chilly sunny mornings. Father always mopping his damp brow. It's no joke. No recognised health issues and no solution from the doctor or the cardiologist. And if you have any tips on how to stay warm or indeed stay cool, then get in touch with the programme. Now Imelda May is an Irish singer-songwriter discovered by Jools Holland when she supported him on tour and subsequently appeared on Later with Jools Holland in 2008. She was the queen of rockabilly with a 50s-style frock, trademark quiff and a voice compared to legendary blues

singers such as Billie Holiday and Sarah Vaughan. She's performed alongside the likes of Lou Reed, Bono, Smokey Robinson, Van Morrison and features on albums and live tours with Jeff Beck and Jeff Goldblum. She started by explaining the inspiration behind her new album 11 Past the Hour. This is called 11 Past the Hour and I started writing a couple of years ago and the reason why I called it 11 Past the Hour it was the beginning of a journey for me that I'm still on. So I started to see 11, 11 everywhere. I don't know if you've ever gotten that. I haven't. It's on the clock.

Yeah, I haven't, but I have friends who talk about it a lot. So yeah, tell us, explain what it is. Yes. It's the call of the universe and many cultures and ancient cultures for an awakening and intuition and a connection with, you know, a greater love. So I start writing, I was writing all about love and all of its forms. And so this album is very, it's very positive,

which I think we need now. Imelda, let's have a listen. This is 11 Past the Hour. It was 11 past the hour Darkness in the air. Lay down on wildflowers. The moonlight didn't care. Give me your heart.

I'll hold it with mine. So you can feel free, my love Free for a while Down to me, down to me Absolutely stunning. Look, my unwaxed arm hairs are standing up. It's like you're singing from your soul. Absolutely. And lots of very cool collaborations on this album. Noel Gallagher, Miles Kane. Arm hairs are standing up. It's like you're singing from your soul. Absolutely.

And lots of very cool collaborations on this album. Noel Gallagher, Miles Kane and Ronnie Wood. I'm sure he's delighted to be on the album as well. It is a brilliant album out today. And the new single, Made to Love. Tell me about it. Made to Love, I wanted it to be an anthem for love. And I wanted it to be a rally, you know, where you'd be at the gig and throw your arms

around each other when we get to gigs and connect with the stranger beside you but I I realized so many people have fought and died for love and so I wanted to name check them all and and kind of just shout about because it's a collaboration isn't it it's a collaboration between yes you tell us it's between I went to uh International Women's Day a couple of years ago that was hosted by Annie Lennox, and I was so inspired. Oh, my God, I was singing at it and Beverly Knight was at it and, oh, we had the best time. But I've jumped up on my feet on many occasions, you know,

because I was hearing just such amazing women speaking, such common sense, you know, just brilliance at its best. And Dr Shola Moss Shogbanola Moss and Gina Martin were two of those and I followed them since I followed them on social media and I sent them messages telling them how much I loved them when I was big fans and then I thought I would love to have their voices on this song

because they fight for love on a daily basis and they get the negativity from that on a daily basis and all that entails and we reap the benefits for it all so I thought I really want them on this song their voices in more ways than one and they both said yes and we had the best day in the studio we really rocked it out and Ronnie was there and it was just magnificent to have them join me I'm such fans of theirs oh and and like I said they

fight for it all the time so it was lovely to hear them sing for it, you know. And I love the story. I love that it's incredibly powerful women who have inspired you to create this piece of art. Let's have a listen to the clip. This is the single Made to Love. Blood in my eyes, a sacrifice, a crowded ground, a crucify Drag on my bones behind the lies, dress me up in skin and robes Hit myself among the wolves, gonna kill me again in the name of fear When all I do is laugh Don't be afraid, afraid to laugh It's an anthem. You can see my hands are in the air.

Whilst I've got you on, I've got to talk about your upbringing. So you grew up in the Liberties area of Dublin. You're the youngest of a large family. Were you listening to a lot of music tell us about tell us tell us about the house you grew up in and the music you were listening to oh god it was a madhouse madhouse full of eccentricity and love and voices and shouting and eating and freedom um my um my brothers and sisters there was we two bedrooms so there was no locking yourself away in your room you know you had to be one record player and so I got to listen to all my brothers and sisters

records so I was listening to everything from you know the Beatles the Carpenters Nat King Cole um Kate Bush David Bowie um Boney M it was like everything that anyone was playing I listened to and it was magnificent but my mum and dad just as I get older I realise how special they are that I thought that was kind of normal that they had equality

in their relationship before I'd ever heard of even the word of it they supported each other mum your mum sounds amazing tell us a bit about your mum because she had you later in life didn't she Before I'd ever heard of even the word of it, they supported each other. Mam stayed home. Your mum sounds amazing. Tell us a bit about your mum, because she had you later in life, didn't she?

Mam does everything in her own time. She does everything when she wants and how she wants, and she's strong-willed and wonderful. And so Dad is the eccentric. He was the dancer, you know? And he says he's the kite and she's the tail, and they balance each other out which is gorgeous but ma'am uh she married later on she's 94 now and she's born in 1927 i think

i've done my maths right um and she uh there was a lot of pressure to get married young at that time and she said no i like my job I don't I thought that time they had to give up work and that was tradition she said I like my job I like dance and I like my friends so she didn't get married till she was in her 30s and dad was in his early 20s and um they fell madly in love and she had her babies later she had me at. And my first memory with her is of her putting me in a pram and heading off to a protest. And that's what she'd do. She'd fight for things she wanted. She

fought for computers in our local area because there were none. She fought for a scholarship from the local art college that rolled into town and said, you have to support the local children. She's just an amazing woman. What's your mum's name? Madge. Madge sounds phenomenal. have to support the local children. She's just an amazing woman. What's your mum's name? What's mum's name?

Madge. Madge. Madge sounds phenomenal. No wonder she brought in such an amazing daughter. And you have been writing since you were 13? I've been writing since I'm 13. I can't say that the song, I remember the song I wrote when I was 13. It was awful, but it was the start.

And you're incredibly busy. You've got the album which is out today but you're also making a film I know I'm sitting looking over the sea oh look at the view where are you that is beautiful absolutely stunning sunshine blue sea behind her lovely I'm

Sunny Cornwall I'm making a beautiful movie Fisherman's Friends 2 I've joined the original cast Maggie Steed and James Purifoy and just making a beautiful movie, Fisherman's Friends 2. I've joined the original cast, Maggie Steed and James Purifoy, and just amazing. I'm having the best time.

I'm in the hot seat every day next week at 10am for Woman's Hour, so do join me then. If you can't, you can find us on BBC Sounds. Have a lovely weekend. I'm Sarah Treleaven, and for over a year, I've been working on one of the most complex stories I've ever covered. lovely weekend. Eye on Earth. How long has she been doing this? What does she have to gain from this? From CBC and the BBC World Service, The Con, Caitlin's Baby. It's a long story, settle in. Available now.