Woman's Hour - Weekend Woman's Hour: Katherine Ryan, EHRC Chair, Shingles vaccine and dementia

Episode Date: October 27, 2026

Comedian Katherine Ryan’s new memoir explores the impact being a Firstborn Daughter has had on her approach to life. From becoming the family’s ‘Head of Emotional Operations’ at a young age, to her thoughts on marriage, motherhood, fertility and facelifts, Katherine joins Anita to discuss her take on what it means to be woman in modern society.New research has found that female scientists are 'largely absent' from exam boards’ compulsory learning material for GCSE pupils. The study by the University of Cambridge found only one of 86 scientists featured in the main Key Stage 4 exam specifications for science, was a woman – Rosalind Franklin - she did ground-breaking work on DNA. Skyla White is one of the researchers on the study.There has been a rise in demand for the shingles vaccine, and this may be because recent studies suggest it could reduce the risk of dementia. Women are at greater risk of developing dementia in their lifetime, and around twice as many women as men have Alzheimer's disease, the most common type of dementia. Nuala hears from two women, Eva and Sally, who are getting the shingles vaccine this winter, in part because of a family history of dementia, and from Lucy Devendra, Head of Research at Alzheimer's Society.Author Helen Fielding is launching a competition to find new comedy writers from the North of England. The Bridget Jones Prize will be managed by Newcastle-based writing charity New Writing North. From Yorkshire herself, Helen is looking for first-person stand-alone prose, not unlike the diary entries of her fictional heroine, first published anonymously in The Independent newspaper in 1995. Helen explains why she wants more to be made of the northern humour she grew up with.It was World Menopause Day yesterday, the last before employers of more than 250 people in England, Scotland and Wales are mandated to have a Menopause Action Plan in place. This new legal duty begins in April 2027. What does it actually mean and how will it be enforced? Nuala McGovern is joined by the Chair of the Equality and Human Rights Commission, Dr Mary-Ann Stephenson.Presenter: Anita Rani Producer: Simon Richardson

This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK. Get more with BBC podcasts, wherever you listen. Be the first to listen to your favourite shows, like evil genius, good, bad billionaire, and You're Dead to Me, with a subscription to BBC Podcasts premium on Apple Podcasts. You can also enjoy a range of our podcasts ad-free with an Amazon music subscription. Hello and welcome to the programme, bringing you highlights from the Woman's Hour Week. Coming up, Bridget Jones's diary author Helen Fielding on her new writing prize, she's looking for funny Northern Voices.

Chair of the Equality and Human Rights Commission, Dr Mary Ann Stevenson, on new menopause regulations for employers and rules over single-sex spaces, and will explore a rise in demand for the shingles vaccine. Research suggests that it could reduce the risk of dementia, with one study showing benefits were stronger in women. But we start with comedian, Catherine. Ryan. She joined me yesterday in the Woman's Hour studio to discuss her new memoir about being a first-born daughter and all the ways this may have affected her approach to life, from marriage

to motherhood, fertility to facelifts. Catherine has earned a reputation for her unflinching honesty, whether it's in a stand-up, on TV panel shows, on podcasts or her reality show. And this latest book is no difference as she shares her take on navigating society as a woman, a wife and a daughter. The book charts how she spends her day from the big stuff to the smallest detail. She began by telling me about the approach she took in writing it. Yeah, I have elements of the book that really delve into the psychoanalysis of the eldest daughter syndrome and firstborn daughters, but then I also have nosy parts where I just, I'll give my shopping list or what my actual day looks like, or how I potty train my children from birth, or how much sleep I'm not getting. And I think

that's what, that's the kind of literature, if I could be so bold, that I gravitate toward, especially on holiday. I just, I'm so nosy and gossipy and I love a comedy memoir and I try to speak as though I'm telling everyone a million secrets. I have to say, I read and listened to the audio book, and that is an absolute delight. What is it about being a firstborn daughter that inspired you to write about them? Well, I was on tour with my latest show Battle Axe, and I asked as a throft, away comment. You know, we suffer from hyper independence as a trauma response. Is anyone else a firstborn daughter? And to my surprise, loads of the audience every night started responding to that. They said, yes, I am. They cheered. And I went, everyone's a firstborn daughter. And I think the type of women who gravitate toward what I do, they seem to share these traits. So it's, of course, not an official diagnosis, but it's a pattern that I think a lot of us, our algorithms will tell us on social media now, where you are parental. probably given responsibility very young, minding siblings, keeping the peace, what have you. And it led you to believe that to be useful is to be loved.

And that produces a hyper-competent adult who is amazing in a crisis, but never asks for help. And there are all these other qualities and traits that I'm finding, the more and more I talk about firstborn daughter syndrome, that I share with other women or honorary firstborn daughters. So maybe the youngest. Well, if you had older brothers, the book recognizes that they were probably deeply ineffective and raised differently by your parents, especially maybe you could shed light on being from an Asian background. Absolutely. I have spoken about this on my own social media about being a firstborn daughter from a South Asian background and has it owned everything that

you said in your book and then the addition of having to recognize that the sons are treated like little princes and no one's going to hand you anything on a silver platter so you just have to get on with it. Anyway, it's not about me, Catherine Ryan. It's about you. It is about you because I rarely get to see you socially. Yes. So we'll Should we just catch up? Should we just have a nice ketchup? This is an hour, a woman. Yes, exactly.

And we're the only ones in the family who know where the cellotape is. We de-scale the kettle. We stack the plates and restaurants for the waiter. When the flight crew are giving the takeoff safety announcements, we are keenly giving them our full attention and smiling back. You know, all of these things that so many of us do. So you describe, I mean, it's brilliant how you put us into different categories and you say we often become the heads of emotional operations within family quite early on.

And we could fall into the categories of martyr or the invisible. Where are you? There's the diplomat. There's the visionary maverick. You could even be a rebel firstborn daughter. It means, you know, you talk too much, you drink too much, you upset everyone, but you buy the best presents. I'm a little bit, I'm not that type A. I can really hyper-focus on a task.

We're having the baby, my youngest of four, christened in Ireland next month. And the mood boards, the table arrangements, the flight schedule. I've organized so much if I really dial in. But overall, I have 47 tabs open, three half-drunk coffees on the desk. I succeed, not despite the chaos in my life, but sometimes I think because of it, I need a deadline. And the closer I get to the deadline, I think a lot of people wouldn't enjoy living this way. But I keep it together and I get it done. and I'm very low stress actually, though the theory is I harbor a simmering resentment as a

first-war daughter. And that could explain. Yeah, I have several autoimmune diseases. Yes. Maybe. Well, we need to talk about that, actually. I was going to bring it up because I've thought about this a lot because I know lots of women with autoimmune.

And then you discuss it and the sort of the reaction, the stress reaction. So you talk about your own lupus and you really tell us some more about that and the podcast where you look at people's age. And yes. Well, I do have a podcast with Bauer called What's My Age Again? Where we, I don't know why. Celebrities give us their blood. I can't believe that anyone's agreed to come on this podcast.

And we test it to see how the cells behave comparatively with other different age ranges of blood that they have at Glycan age. So you could have a 60-year-old whose biological age resembles that of a 25 or 35-year-old if they're really looking after themselves. My biological age was 77, unfortunately. And I think that's because the test chiefly looks at inflammation. And inflammation is when your immune system is always turned on, always looking for danger, anticipating problems, and that's really not a healthy way. You know, it's meant to turn on, to heal you from an illness and then go back down. But mine is always on high alert.

And for that reason, I do have lupus, systemic lupus, which is maybe one of the reasons I had so many misguid many miscarriages. We're never sure. We have only started studying women. You know, they'd open it and you go to the doctor, they'd open a large book, blow off the dust and go, your vagina's haunted. You know, they never knew what was wrong with us. And now they're starting to test a few of us. I also have celiac. Yeah. And yeah, the autoimmune disease, I think, is largely estrogen dependent, but I think that if you're stressed, especially women, I think it exists in you. It lives on the inside maybe. So your memoir, you are funny, but you go from that to telling us about your autoimmune diseases and your miscarriages. And those bits of the book really do read like we are.

It's your personal diary. I'm so glad you said that because I believe that I tell stories and I do stand-up comedy and I try to write like it is my personal diary. I'm extraordinarily candid. Too candid, some would say. But when I had my first experience with pregnancy loss, I was so shocked. And that's all was looking for. I just wanted someone to relate to and I wished because it is shrouded in shame still and this feeling of failure unfairly, of course, but I wanted someone else to have written a diary and mine is a little irreverent. It's not too dark, but I like to lay it all out every detail on the table of what I felt, what my husband felt, what I was going through, where I was able to find slivers of joy and humor in the situation and what I learned even medically from it.

So I've had three now. I'm kind of an expert. And I try just to be as forthcoming as I can be, and I hope that someone finds solace in relating to me. And I'm aware that they might be feeling a certain way, just hearing us talking about the topic this morning. So if you are, if you are, then we will, there are links to support on the BBC Action Line website.

I mean, you are unflinchingly honest in the book, and when you do stand up across several topics, and I was particularly intrigued and I was found particularly enjoyable your thoughts on marriage, the topic of marriage, that people might find surprising because you say how you don't trust men and you say that you can't trust Bobby 100%.

No. Tell us more. And I also think this is a firstborn daughter response. Well, it's a survival skill, isn't it? And it's very protective. So I believe, through my research on earth, that every man is one mistake away from exploding his whole life every day. I think even a respectable husband and father can leave the house one morning with good intentions

and I don't know what goes wrong at lunch, but sometimes he never returns. And even he's upset. He's like, how did this happen? And I know that women also are capable of betrayal. But if women cheat, we meant to do it. We did it on purpose. Whereas I really think I've seen. I can't help it.

So I have never suffered from a traumatic brain injury. Therefore, I can't forget these things, these anecdotes that I've picked up in my life, the experiences of my girlfriends, my family. I cannot trust a romantic relationship 100%, not even my own husband. And he's at 95, which is high. It's good. I also don't think any woman should expend energy checking her husband's phone or looking at his location or my mistrust doesn't manifest that way. It's about keeping a place in my heart prepared and safe so that if, you know, know, the unimaginable happens, though 5% imaginable to me, that I'm not stuck buffering.

Because what happens when you're betrayed? I don't think I'm smarter than any other woman has been betrayed. I think all of us, we think, oh, my life's fine, everything. I would know. You wouldn't know. Terrible things can happen. You need a secret bank account. You need an exit plan. It's wise words from Catherine. And I was going to ask how Bobby reacted to what you've said in the book, but I feel like he might already know. Oh, yeah, he's seen my word. Bobby doesn't mind because, again, I'm not checking up on him. Bobby lives a wonderful life. And I think that I've seen it on socials before.

They say, when a man is chosen by a woman who hates men, that is the greatest compliment. And I, of course, don't hate men. I wish them all the best. If I ever offend any man, that's just a bonus for me. I didn't set out to do it. We're going to talk about beauty standards. Okay. You talk about the pressure to bounce back that we're going to.

in field, but it's quite rare to find someone as transparent as you about plastic surgery. You're not only admits having a facelift, but you tell us where you had it, why you had had it, how you had it. Yeah. And the timing as well. Why did you want to do that? Well, the timing was wild. I didn't even realize that it was wild timing until the nurse at the plastic surgeon's office said to me,

oh, you're the first person who's ever had a facelift with a newborn in tow. and I said thank you because I assume everything said out loud to me as a compliment. But I think she was a little bit taken aback. I had an eight-week-old baby, and that was my last of four children. And I felt that it was for me about reclaiming my identity, brand recognition, if you will. My body had been through so much in five years. And my face, I didn't do anything to my, like, physique. My face is what I used for work.

I didn't recognize myself in the mirror anymore because I, I got pregnant in my throat like a tropical frog. I kept gaining all this weight in my neck for some reason. And I understand the feminist argument, and I appreciate this so much as a strident feminist myself, who obviously has some internalized misogyny and makes some mistakes. But I know that there are women who don't subscribe to this at all. And every time a woman like me gets a facelift,

we are putting further pressure on the women who want to be left out of this entire practice. I get that. But the same way I feel badly that driving my car contributes. to climate change. That's why I'm transparent about it because I feel like that is my version of driving a hybrid. Like, yes, I had a facelift, but I told everyone about it. I was very honest about it. Yeah. And I know people are going to have some feelings about it, but I think it's worse if I had just emerged with this snatch jawline and pretended it was just a... Yeah. Oh, it's because, you know, I pray more often than you do. That's why my skin is flawless. No, it's because I went to North Yorkshire

with a newborn and I got a facelift. and a maternity nurse who could look after my newborn for the duration of the surgery because I was breastfeeding. And I really like the other, I mean, you're so honest in the book, you're so honest anyway, but about saying that, you know, you've worked really hard to get to where you are. You know, you've come here with nothing. You've single mom bringing up violet and we'll talk about her being your favorite. And you've really grafted and you, you afford, you have young children now, three under five with Bobby, but you afford, you've afforded a really nice life. Yes, and I'm very transparent about that too. I think it's uncouth and very unlikable to discuss money, especially for women, because they just started stitching pockets in our trousers.

Didn't even have pockets. You know, you meet a woman with pockets in her dress. And we get so happy. Yeah, look, I can have my own money. But, yes, when I came here, I didn't quite have nothing. I was quite a wealthy waitress in Canada and university. I came here and then quickly, quickly it whittled down. to nothing. I worked in an office and kind of seven to seven and then I fell pregnant with my daughter who's

born in Britain and then my relationship with her dad fell apart and it was bleak for a while and because of I think my firstborn daughter qualities I refused to go back to Canada with my tail between my legs. Also I didn't know if I had permission to do that because her father lived here and I was like you know that Sally Field movie not without my daughter I was like what am I even allowed to do so well I decided I just better make it work here and I'm so lucky that I'm so lucky that it did. And now, yeah, I have a very privileged life. And I'm honest about that too. I think it's important to talk about the nannies that you have, to talk about the privilege that you have. Privilege is a word that people shy away from because I think they might worry that it takes away

from their own achievements. It doesn't. It just makes the other moms, I think, feel more seen. Yeah. And think, oh, how on earth is Catherine Ryan doing it all when I can barely get through today? Right. I've got 35 babies under the table, just waiting for this interview to end. Your eldest, Violet, is your favorite daughter? Yes. Favorite child? Another provocative statement. Violet's my favorite.

And my favoritism of her, our love is not, you know, stronger. It's older. I think that I love all my smaller children, but I'm conscious of the fact that they have a very different upbringing to the one my daughter had who was with me every step of the way when I was really grafting early days in this country. And I'm conscious of single mothers. children who are in a different shape of a family. I don't ever want Violet to feel. She's 17 now that she was just a holding place, a holding card for this family. I wanted to be chosen by a man

and have a nuclear family. She most certainly was better than good enough. And she is my favorite. And we have a survivor's loyalty, I think. For anyone who's reading the book or actually listening to the audio book, which I can highly recommend, there's a beautiful bit at the end where it's violet speaking about you, your daughter speak. And I think that is the most telling chapter actually when your daughter's talking about you. And there's a bit that she says that really stuck with me where she said she remembers going to gigs, comedy gigs whilst you're doing stand-up and she would be the baby being looked after. And to this day, it's Ashling Bee who still messages her on her birthday and calls her gig baby. And in that, in just that sentence,

says a lot about your graft and how hard you've worked to get to where you are. And I'm so lucky that Violet has a community of female comedians and Ramesh and Joe Lyset and, you know, a few boy comedians too who are there for her. So it was a wonderful life that we had. And I do still, as a married woman with four children, I do kind of miss being a single mom with one sheik daughter. Comedian Catherine Ryan and her new book, Confessions of a firstborn daughter, is out now. On Monday, Nula spoke to the chair of the Equality and Human Rights Commission, Dr. Mary Ann Stevens. The EHRC is Britain's independent equality in human rights watchdog tasked with, amongst other things, ensuring the protected characteristics of all people are respected, a topic she and Nula come to in a moment.

But they began with the menopause and new legal duties for employers supporting their staff. So if you start with why we need this, you know, women, all women will go through the menopause at some point in their lives. and some of us sail through it without any problems. Others of us have, you know, significant problems with symptoms that can affect our lives and our ability to work. And in fact, research by the Fawcett Society highlighted, you know, significant number of women who end up leaving the workplace altogether because they didn't get the support that they needed with their symptoms.

So this is obviously bad for them, but it's obviously bad for employers because you're losing female talent. as a key point, often at the peak of their career. So these plans are about the sort of common sense practical changes that you can make to make women's lives easier when they go through the menopause. That might be allowing flexible working. It might be adjustments to uniform policy. If, you know, it's particularly hot weather and women are suffering from hot flushes.

It might be allowing women to have a fan on their desk. It might be training managers in how to deal with women who are suffering. from menopause symptoms sympathetically. I mean, all of these things are things that good employers would want to be doing for their staff anyway. And things like flexible working, for example, would benefit the whole workforce. Yes, indeed. And we could talk about that at length.

But you mentioned a couple of them there, the training of managers, for example. Setting up a menopause support group was another thing I read. Some of the workplace adjustments you also talk about. And the employers must choose at least one action to support employers. experiencing menopause. But how will the EHRC monitor this? Well, so we've just produced, well, a couple of years ago, we produced a series of short videos to help employers understand the sorts of things that they could do to support women in the workplace. And we've reissued that because we are conscious that this new legal duty is coming in next year. But there has been

research shown that large numbers of employers aren't aware of that. And as with anything else, you know, we will be, we monitor complaints and we take action where necessary and proportionate. But the thing here is really that these sorts of changes are not massively onerous. And they are things that will benefit not just women going through the menopause, but other people. You know, flexible working might, for example, help parents who need to drop kids off who've got parents to look after. But I suppose what I'm thinking just when you say that, Marianne, some of these changes, they wouldn't just be. be for menopausal women? Well, so what we're saying is that, you know,

your menopause action plans might include flexible working policies, but an employer may well have a flexible working policy already because that is of benefit to the wider workforce. Similarly, thinking about how uniforms work in hot weather may well benefit other people. So while these action plans are specifically to support menopausal women, employers thinking about this, thinking about the broader needs of their employees, might find that it benefits a wider group of people.

So that's what you're hoping for. Do you think it would be difficult to enforce this new law? I don't think it should be difficult. I mean, employers with over 250 staff are obliged to publish their menopause action plans and that's something that's relatively easy to monitor. It is also important to be aware that in some cases where menopause, symptoms are particularly severe and long-lasting, that may amount to disability and be covered by the Equality Act. Similarly, failure to take action might be in breach of age or sex

discrimination laws. And so, you know, it's not just important for employers to do this because it helps them retain their female staff. It means that their female staff have a better time at work. It's also important because it avoids the risk of expensive legal challenge. But let me move on to another part of your role, if I may, ensuring the rights of those who have protected characteristics under the 2010 Equality Act. It's a matter of great interest and concern to our listeners, particularly the balance of women's and trans people's rights. And I wondered, first of all, what you see as your job in this area. So my role as chair of the HRC is to ensure that everybody is able to live with dignity and respect and be free from discrimination and harassment. and that includes across all protected characteristics,

and we all have protected characteristics, and it includes both women and trans people. As with a lot of areas, there are issues where there are balances between the rights claims of different groups and how you meet that. And the way the Equality Act does that is to say that, generally speaking, you shouldn't treat people differently at all because of their sex, but there are certain circumstances where you can, for example, provide single or separate sex services, mainly for privacy, dignity or safety.

That has to be a proportionate means of meeting illegitimate aim. It's very clear, since the judgment informed in Scotland that those services have to be provided on the basis of biological sex, at the same time, trans people are also protected under the Equality Act against discrimination and harassment. so service providers need to ensure that they have services that are suitable for them to use and that may be a combination of single or separate sex services and unisex services, for example. What proportion of cases do you take up? I don't know the exact proportion.

I mean, it depends on the different area. We get referrals made to us every day. And sometimes this isn't a case of taking a legal challenge against an organisation. it might be simply writing to them and saying, do you realise you've got your policy in this area wrong? And they will make a change. Sometimes we have what's called Section 23 powers where we enter into a voluntary agreement with an organisation,

where they admitted that they've broken the law and we work with them to try and help them improve. Sometimes we may provide support to somebody else's legal case or we may put in a submission to the court if the court is considering a case and we think there's important equality or human rights issues to be considered. So we've got a range of legal powers and we can and do use them and we will use them. But as I said, the issue here is trying to ensure, and it's hard, that everybody has access to the service they need.

And for some women in some circumstances, that will mean single-sex services for their privacy, dignity or safety. And in those circumstances, you also need to think about how you can make sure trans people who maybe can't or don't want to use the services for their biological sex have the services they need. And these are practical solutions that we can best work through by, through kind of discussion and recognition that everybody in these areas have rights. Well, there's definitely been a lot of discussion. Many would have heard, for example, the guidance in the code or the law simplified down to who can use which toilets. but as you mentioned there, it can affect, for example, refuges, rape crisis centres, sporting organisations, clubs, associations.

Are employers, service providers and businesses telling you that they are totally clear on how they can ensure the law is followed? I'm thinking maybe not from some of those issues you've mentioned. So our code of practice is for services, public functions and associations. There is a separate code for employment, which we are looking at. at the moment and looking at how best to revise and how best to provide advice to employers. And in the meantime, you know, they should be taking their own legal advice. The legal situation is clear where you are providing separate or single-sex services,

that does need to be on the basis of biological sex. On a practical level, should individuals challenge someone that they believe should not be in that space or a future manager to make that decision? I'm just curious how you see. I mean, in our code, we would generally. suggest that people went and got a manager or brought somebody else in, you know, it obviously depends on the circumstances, but, you know, when I've been in situations in the past where a man, for example, has walked into toilets on a train station, I went and got the guard

because that seemed like the safest thing to do. We don't want to be in a situation where everybody's policing who is and isn't going into public toilets. However, there's are situations where it is legitimate to challenge. It's legitimate for service providers, for example, to check if they're providing running a women's refuge or running a rape crisis centre who is coming into that refuge. Do you worry that people whose sex matches, the facilities could be wrongly removed because of their appearance? I think that's very unlikely. I think that's something that is massively overstated. By and large, human beings are extremely good at, to be. telling the sex of other people. As I said, we don't want to be in a situation where people are harassing others and everybody does also have the right to be free from harassment.

Having said that, there have been cases where failure to provide a single-sex space for a woman or allowing members of the opposite sex to use a single-sex space could amount to harassment of that woman. So service providers need to think about how they kind of balance these things sensitively and thoughtfully and with common sense, which we have done for decades. That was Nula talking to Dr. Marianne Stevenson, Chair of the Equality and Human Rights Commission. Still to come on the programme. Can the shingles vaccine protect women against dementia? Then we'll hear from Bridget Jones author Helen Fielding. And remember, you can enjoy Woman's Hour any hour of the day.

if you can't join us live at 10 a.m. during the week, all you need to do is subscribe to the podcast. It's daily and it's free via BBC sounds. Now, there's been a rise in demand for the shingles vaccine, and this may be because studies suggest that it could reduce the risk of dementia. One recent Welsh study found that the possible protective benefits was stronger in women.

One high street pharmacy chain told Women's Hour that the demand for the shingles vaccine more than doubled between September 2025 and September 2026, following a 30% rise the previous year. Women have a greater risk of developing dementia during their lifetime and around twice as many women as men have Alzheimer's disease, the most common type of dementia. Well, Neula spoke on Wednesday to Ava Sykes and Sally Cropper,

who are both getting the shingles vaccine this winter, in part because of a family history of dementia. She was also joined by Lucy Devendra, head of research at Alzheimer's UK, who began by telling us what the real thing, recent studies on this have shown. So as many of your listeners will know, shingles is quite a nasty viral infection

actually caused by the chickenpox virus. Many of us have chicken pox when we're young, most of us do, and that virus actually sits within our immune system and can reactivate when we're having low immune system, particularly as we get older. So as I say, it can cause quite nasty side effects. It's not pleasant, which is why we in many countries

have a national vaccination programme. And as you've said, researchers have actually looked at this, particularly using those studies in Wales, where they, when they rolled out the vaccine, set a specific cutoff at 80. And if you were older than, if you were 80 or above, you wouldn't receive the vaccine. And obviously, if you were younger, you would. So it created quite a nice natural experiment where they could look at people very close in age, but one group had had the vaccine and one group hadn't. And they followed these people about 300,000 people for seven years and found that in the people that had had the vaccine, there was fewer cases of dementia. And they looked at this and concluded that the lowering of risk was about 20%. And as you said, it did seem to be more to be greater in women compared to men.

But we do need more kind of robust clinical evidence to really understand that link. So although it's really promising and a really exciting area of research, there is a little bit more to go before we can definitively say that that risk is being lowered. I understand that, although many people are very excited about, of course, looking for something that that could reduce their risk. And I'll read some of the comments that have come in from listeners. But would this be, or do we know thus far, for all forms of dementia? The studies so far have just looked at dementia.

So they've looked at people's kind of medical records after they've had the vaccination and the way that that's usually recorded is dementia. One of the challenges that we see is that we don't always have a kind of a specific disease classification and that's part of the reason that we don't always understand some of these factors. There are some studies ongoing at the moment to actually specifically look at whether this vaccination does reduce the risk in North, in Denmark and also in Finland. And in those studies, they will be, because they'll be designing it specifically to dementia, they will be looking more specifically at Alzheimer's disease, vascular dementia, for example,

Louis-Body dementia. At the moment, the studies are more broad than that. And some of my listeners about it got heard, just as you mentioned there, over 80 were not eligible for the vaccine? In the Welsh study, because the vaccine becomes less effective, the older you get, it was only given to people that were less than 80. in England at the moment anyone over 70 can get the vaccine and then they're rolling it out gradually

to be anyone over 60 and that's gradual so if you're between 60 and 70 it's worth checking with your GP or with the NHS website to see whether you're eligible because it depends on your birthday but yes eventually

it will be available for anybody over 60 I do see here one listener who got in touch I'm 74 I ask my GP practice for the shingles job they said I'm an eligible as I'm too old. I also ask for a smear test. Same response. I would need to talk to the GP. My mother was 93 when she died with dementia. I'm an active, busy, working woman. Am I being written off already? My listener asks. But let me turn to two women that are, I suppose, first-hand accounts of undergoing this. Eva, you are having the shingles vaccine this week. Is this possible? And of course, Lucy has beautifully lined out what's conclusive and what's not.

A possible link with reducing your dementia risk, one of the considerations for having it? Absolutely. And the other one is that I'm immunosuppressed. So, of course, if I can do anything to help myself, not get it, I will do it. You are able to have the vaccine through the NHS, that is because you're immunosuppressed.

What I read was it would cost £460 for the two doses, which it requires, which lasts for about 10 years, I believe. Would you pay to have it privately if you had to? Absolutely. And the reason I would is because when my father went through dementia, I used to take my children three times a week to look after him. And it's kind of like me looking at my children now if I do get dementia. So 20% reduction if the studies bear out.

If they do. That would be worth it? Yeah, well, I've had lymphoma, Hodgkin's lymphoma twice. And my percentage of getting that was far less. I understand. So that's the way I think. Yeah, let's bring in Sally. You are not eligible on the NHS, Sally,

but thinking about paying for it? Yeah, definitely. I'm currently, my mother has Alzheimer's. She was diagnosed in 2023. So my sister's her primary carer, and I'm very involved in that. But seeing her journey through Alzheimer's and looking at what's to come for her,

if there's anything that I can do to reduce the risk of that happening, then I'll do it. And so you will take this vaccine for £460, as we mentioned. How did you hear about it? Just through talking, Alzheimer's is very much on my radar at the moment, and in my age group, I'm in my early 60s, there are a lot of, friends who are going through similar journeys with their parents. So it's kind of something that crops up in conversation quite often. And it's things like, you know, we talk about things holistically, like what we can do about our health and well-being, our lifestyle choices, our diets,

our supplements. And of course, the shingles vaccine has formed part of that conversation, which is how I heard about it. about you, Eva. Are there other things you're thinking about in addition to the vaccine? Yes, of course, lifestyle. I've lost quite a lot of weight with walking, actually. Surprisingly, it's got me very fit and taking up strength training at the gym. So I know that weight loss helps. I've got my, I had complications with my heart after chemotherapy. So I've got my heart in order now with having had an ablation and being, on the right blood pressure medication,

which I know is a factor in helping me to not get dementia. Yeah, I'm glad to hear. There was a story this morning, actually, in the papers as well, about losing weight in midlife, how it can repair your heart back to original function, shall we say, as if you had not had that extra weight on.

Here's another from a listener. I had a mother and two sisters with Alzheimer's. My sister started in their late 50s. I am now 60, and I'm not sure if I'm kicking the can down the road, or have dodged the bullet. I have had the shingles vaccine. I recently completed a master's.

I read daily, meditate, journal, do CrossFit five times a week and walk my dog. I follow a nutrition program which supports gut health. I eat oily fish regularly. I take creatine daily, the supplement. It may sound a bit obsessive, but I'm full of energy and really feel vital. So it's not a hardship. My goal is to do everything I can not to be a burden to my children. so interesting,

isn't it? Sally, coming back to you, you talk there about your mother and this person, of course, says they don't want to be a burden.

Nobody wants to be a burden, but they can take a lot of care for somebody who has dementia. You feel, did you feel your mother had some risk factors? Most definitely. Where we are now,

when I reflect on her life, she was a sculptor and her her days were consisted of taking herself off into her studio and working on sculpting seven days a week for almost all day. She didn't have the radio on. She would be in silence. She didn't talk to anybody.

It was very, very solitary. I think the only conversations that she had were probably snipped conversations with my father in the evening and first thing in the morning, and that would be it. And she was quite sedentary. And I'm not saying this because I think it's her fault that she's got Alzheimer's. It's just that I think there are factors that you are in control of and that we're very much more aware of now that can help to reduce your risk.

You know, keeping active, keeping sociable, keeping conversation going. All of those things are so important. And I resonate very much with the message that you just read out. lot of things. Is that your daily schedule? And it's always there in the background. Good stuff. Well, as a listener said, she doesn't find it a hardship. But Lucy, let me come back to you on that. The social interaction. It's a fascinating part, isn't it? It is. And it's important to say, first of all, the shingles vaccine is really effective against preventing shingles. So we definitely recommend people to know to seek it out

for that reason if they're eligible. But back to dementia, you know, dementia is a devastating condition. Nearly a million people in the UK are affected. And we know one in three people born today will develop it in their lifetime. And, you know, there aren't any treatments currently available on the NHS that delay the progression. So it's absolutely understandable that people, particularly with a personal connection that's maybe cared for somebody with a dementia, are absolutely wanting to take kind of personal action in order to reduce their risk.

And we do know that there are things that there are the there is evidence there that it does reduce risk. There isn't one single thing that you can do. It is kind of multifactorial that many of the things that your listeners and Sally has mentioned are things that can reduce risk. So some of those are things that reduce the risk of other diseases, as you've said, like maintaining physical activity, not smoking, avoiding drinking too much alcohol, having a healthy diet. But there are something specific to dementia. So as you've already alluded to things like managing blood pressure, also we know that unmanaged sight loss or hearing loss can be risk factors. So making sure you're getting those checked and corrected if you have got any problems there.

But like you said, maintaining that kind of cognitive activity. So not being socially isolated, keeping your brain healthy, whether that's taking on new hobbies or, you know, doing brain training, doing Sudoku. these are all things that can help to reduce your risk. So taken together, these are things that people absolutely can do to reduce their risk of dementia. We also did get some statements. This from the Royal College of Pharmacy, Professor Amira Gurgis, a chief scientist. We're aware that some people are approaching community pharmacies with questions about the shingles vaccine

because of the potential link with a reduced risk of dementia. Emerging research is promising, but we cannot say yet that the vaccine prevents dementia. the vaccine is recommended to protect against shingles and pharmacists can help you make an informed decision about vaccination and answer any questions you may have. A Department of Health, social care spokesperson said we're continuing to roll out the phased expansion of the shingles vaccination program following the Joint Committee on Vaccination and Immunization's recommendation

to lower the age of eligibility. We're carefully considering J-C-V-I advice on expanding eligibility to those aged 80 and over some of you might be interested in that. And of course, if you do have any questions, do go to your GP. That was Lucy Devendra talking to Nula and before her, Ava Sykes and Sally Cropper. Now, new research has found that female scientists are largely absent from exam boards compulsory learning material for GCSE pupils. The study by the University of Cambridge found only one of 86 scientists featured in the main Key Stage 4 exam specifications for science was a woman, Rosalind Franklin.

She did groundbreaking work on DNA. On Thursday, I spoke to Skyla White, one of the researchers on the study. So essentially we kind of started this research after there had been a similar study conducted in Australia. And we were really curious about whether or not the trends in Australia were maybe the same in the UK. And so you already kind of outlined the main key finding that we had, which is that we found one woman scientist after analysing six of them. major UK exam boards. We also did look at A level specifications as well, and we found that three female scientists were mentioned out of 181, so a kind of similar, similar outcome to what we saw for

for Key Stage 4. And interestingly as well, these scientists are mentioned in the biology and geology specifications, so you can kind of complete your education without hearing about women in either or chemistry. And what was your reaction to this discovery? So I think that for me personally, having done my GCSEs and my A-Levels within the UK, it wasn't all that surprising. You know, I don't remember learning about any females when I was doing my courses. So yeah, we were just kind of happy to be able to get this information out there

so that now something can be done about it. So who else do you think should be on the curriculum? So within the paper, we highlight topics that are already discussed and, you know, female scientists who actually would fit into these parts of the curriculum. So one of them would be Mary Skadovska Curie, who coined the term radioactivity. And she also won two Nobel Prizes in two different fields. She'd be a good place to start, yeah. Yeah. We also, I mean, I have quite a few.

I could list. Please, give us some more. Let's name them. Why not? Yeah, so Lisa Mitner, she provided the first theoretical explanation for nuclear fission, which is something that's also covered at key stage four. So, you know, her work is there, but she's not mentioned. Yeah, and then in addition, we also have Dorothy Hodgkin.

She did a lot of work on elucidating the structures of different key biochemical compounds, and she also won a Nobel Prize. So, yeah, that's just to name three, but there are quite a few that we do recommend. Why are they not there anyway? What's happened? I think that this is, you know, it's difficult to say for sure why this is the case.

I think that specifications have, you know, been written and that perhaps this problem wasn't, people weren't aware of it. So, you know, we hope that now there can be a bit of a change. And what would be, the effect of having those women's names added to the curriculum, what effect might this have recruiting girls into STEM subjects and the STEM industries? Yeah, so, I mean, we think that it's really important for young girls to see themselves represented in the subjects that they want to pursue

and in the careers that they want to have. Previous research, not done by us, but has shown that exposing young girls to relatable STEM role models can reduce implicit gender stereotypes. It strengthens self-efficacy, and it really shows young girls that they do actually belong in science. So in terms of the impact, you know, we're not sure if this is a contributing factor, but we think we have compelling evidence that it is. So perhaps if we were to include these role models, we might see a bigger uptake in STEM-based careers from girls in the future. That was researcher Skyler White,

and the Department of Education told us, we're committed to improving the school curriculum and will ensure every girl can be given the confidence and opportunity to pursue science, technology, engineering and maths. And finally today, Helen Fielding is best known for creating the beloved character of Bridget Jones, who has now featured in four films. Well, now Helen is looking for the new comedy writers from the north of England to follow her lead. She's launching the Bridget Jones Prize, which will be managed by the charity New Writing North, which is based in Newcastle.

From Yorkshire herself, Helen said, She's looking for first-person standalone prose, not unlike the diary entries of her famous fictional heroine, which were first published anonymously in the independent newspaper in 1995. Helen spoke to Neula on Tuesday, and they began with why she's founding the prize and funding it herself over the next three years. Well, I think the idea came to me

because there isn't a comedy prize. New Writing North do awards every year. But when I was growing up in Yorkshire, I think all the comedy at the heart of Bridget came from the people around me when I was growing up. And I always slightly liked to pretend I'm working class, but I wasn't really, I was middle class. But it was the basic joke of laughing at the things that you do wrong, the things that you muck up together, and bringing the fancy and the pretentious down to earth. So, for example, with Bridget's blue soup, the reason that went wrong was she got above herself.

And she decided to make vicissois and needed a bouillon and had to tie vegetables with string, but she only had blue strings. So she thought, oh, sod it'll be fine. Poured cream in it came out blue. So the classic examples I grew up around were Morecambe and Wise. Les Dawson. My mum, I used to take my mum to do restaurant reviews with me.

And she was a cookery teacher. And she was very scathing about fancy things that weren't good. So I once took her somewhere very posh and she bit into a proffiterole. And she said, well, if I'd made these, I'd have considered them a failure. I'd have thrown them away and opened a tin of pairs. Oh, we were all partial to a tin of pears growing up. A tin of pairs, yeah. So that kind of, yeah, get rid of the, what would we call it?

In Ireland, we would call it having notions. Yes, having notions. Above your station, things like that. Yeah. But it kind of, I suppose, what you've always been able to do is shine a light on what can be the messiness of life, particularly from a female perspective. Tell me why you think that was important. Well, it wasn't something I deliberately set out to do as a sociological thing. I was just offered the chance to write a column in the independent as myself.

But I'm a very private person. So I said, well, no, I'll make someone up. and so no one was really paying attention. I was very broke. I was trying to be a serious political journalist. But it got me enough, I think it was $3.50 a week to kind of pay my mortgage. So I thought, well, it'll last for six weeks and then it'll stop. And that freed me up to be really honest about what it was like being a single woman in your 30s at that time.

And I think the thing with this prize is it's not really for, people who've already, it's not for anyone who's been published or anyone who's got an agent. What I think is funny is people writing authentic truth about their ordinary lies. You know, whether it's a bus driver, a taxi driver or someone who works in a nail salon, my experience up in the north was that people just do have that tone. And I think particularly in the age of AI, authentic voices are really, really important. The best advice I ever had about writing was write as if you're writing a letter to a friend. So a thousand words is just enough to tell a little story,

but it's a question of finding your voice and finding the little things that happen to you that go a bit wrong that's a funny in life. I know there's probably a northern female humour that you have in mind as well, that you'd like to particularly mind. No, it doesn't have to be female. not a female prize. I do understand that. It can be for men as well.

But, I mean, one of my favourite childhood memories was Les Dawson when he used to pretend to be the woman. Yes. Heaving up the unibusom over the shopping line with another woman. And there was one time when he said, oh, I went to the pictures last night. I had to move my seat three times because of men. And the other woman said, were you interfered with? And he said, eventually.

Yes, yes, yes. It's a multi-layered joke is that. It's very pre-Me-2, but he's laughing or she laughing at themselves. It's really interesting talking about pre-me-2 because I was reading that Bridget, the original version, is having a renaissance among young Gen Z women now. Yeah, there's a spike in sales amongst the 18 to 25s and the same with the movies.

Why do you think that is? Well, this is anecdotal. I like to pretend to be a sociologist, but I'm not actually one. But I am, you know, I've got 20-year-old daughter, so I am surrounded by a lot of Gen Z girls. My theory is that it's several things. One is body image. Bridget, I never said how tall Bridget was, so you didn't know what shape she was, but she was very worried about being the right shape.

And I think social media has obviously given that so much more weight for these girls. At the same time, the body positivity movement has made them feel guilty. about even thinking about it, so they feel even worse. And this is the first generation who've lived through seeing the world fall apart since the Second World War generation. They're an anxious, sensitive generation. And where Bridget comforted herself with vodka and Hargandas ice cream and a group of solid friends, I see them doing the same thing.

Okay, maybe it's with Marcher. I've got Marcia some protein pears. collagen and sort of fluffy slippers, but they're still forming a group of friends with whom they can be authentic, emotionally honest, kind, laugh at the things they've done wrong, support each other, and embrace the perfection of imperfection. And I think especially as the world gets more and more scary, warmth and kindness and values and community are in.

increasingly important and people are turning to these little pods and I think the Gen Z girls particularly are turning to them and that's why they're embracing Bridget and that's why I really hope we find some voices that captured that and are funny and funny about not being perfect. That messiness that we talk about. Looking back on Bridgett, the original films as well, some you will know found the obsession with calories or weight off button or that she's drawn to predatory men like Daniel Cleaver played by Hugh Grant of course in the films do when you look back at it I mean is there any regrets with it

or it is of its time I don't often look back at the things I've made but I did take my kids to see the first Bridget movie I was completely horrified at the number of moments in the film that some man's hand was on someone's bum or their boob. But that was what it was like. I worked at the BBC during that time, and it was just what you had to put up with. You felt you had to put up with.

You didn't know you had the right to call it. So I wasn't trying to write sociology, but it was very much of its time. And Bridget had a lot of pluck about her, like Elizabeth Bennett. she had the nouse to turn round and stuff it to Daniel Cleaver. Which I actually... But my feeling, and solemn feminists were quite angry with me when I first wrote Bridget.

But my feeling is that actually humour and comedy can be a much more effective way of bringing about change because you hold something like that up to the light. You hold up Uncle Geoffrey squeezing Bridget's bum going part, pop. That's when she's wearing the bunny outfit for those who don't remember. And then everyone thinks that's awful. That's ridiculous. And that is laughing at yourself is a mark of strength, not weakness. And I think that can be very effective in bringing about change, just as effective as ranting.

But what about that defence, as you put it off, you know, maybe being using humour or self-deprecating to try and affect. change? Well, I mean, I don't want to claim any major things for Bridget, but I think when I started writing her, and it is actually the 40th anniversary today of the Independent, so it's rather lovely day to launch the prize. But when I started writing her in the mid-90s, fiction had not caught up with reality. There were lots of economic, sociological reasons why a woman would be single in her 30s, because she could. She could maybe get a job and a car and a flat. She didn't, it wasn't Jane Austen's day.

She wasn't reliant on a husband for money. But she was still saddled with this Miss Havisham oppressive stereotype. Bridget was always thinking she was going to end up dying alone and being found three weeks later, half eaten by an Alsatian. And every time she went to her parents' friends who were like, why aren't you married? Tick-toc, tick-tok. So at one point she actually said, because underneath my clothes, my entire body is covered in scales, because that's what they were implying.

Yes. And I think as I follow Bridget through her life, I tried to address the same oppressive stereotypes about the older woman, you know, the woman of a certain age. You know, Bridget sometimes gets this idea of herself when she passes 50 that she's going to be like Les Dawson with a tight grey permanent unibusim and a, shopping trolley but when you look around you that's not what's happening women don't have a sexual sale by date they're still vibrant they're still doing the same things and very often what we see on our screens is giving us images that are out of date and they make us sad and they're oppressive and miserable so the more i think comedy writers can push what's actually going on around us and what we see in the women around us and the fun in them and the warmth and the capability and

the humanity and the sexuality. I think that's good. That was Helen Fielding talking to Nula there and information about the Bridget Jones Prize can be found online. On Monday, Delia Smith will be talking to Nula about her latest book, Us, Nine Ingredients to Change Our World, and the award-winning Scottish harpist and singer Rachel Newton. will be performing. Do join Nula on Monday at 10. That's it from me. Enjoy the rest of your weekend. Get more with BBC podcasts wherever you listen. Be the first to listen to your favourite shows like Evil Genius, Good Bad Billionaire and You're Dead to Me with a subscription to BBC Podcasts Premium on Apple Podcasts. You can also enjoy a range of our podcasts ad-free with an Amazon

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