Woman's Hour - Weekend Woman's Hour: Megan Thee Stallion, Students Living at Home, Sarah de Lagarde, Dr Nadia Nadim

Episode Date: August 12, 2023

The rapper Tory Lanez has been sentenced to 10 years for the shooting of fellow musician Megan Thee Stallion. She required surgery to remove bullet fragments from her foot after he shot her following a party in 2020. BBC entertainment correspondent Chi-Chi Izundu joins Clare McDonnell to discuss.New research by The Sutton Trust reveals that more than a third of A-level students in England are considering living at home if they get into their preferred university. And in some cases, choosing lower-ranking universities because they are closer to home. Rebecca Montacute, head of research for the Sutton Trust, explains the findings. Hayley Hassall also hears from future student, Lori Cobon, and her mother Rachel.A few months ago, Sarah de Lagarde came on Woman's Hour to share her incredible story of survival. She had fallen on to the Tube tracks at a north London station and was run over by two Tube trains. She lost her right arm and leg as a result. Today, Sarah returns with a newly fitted bionic arm, made possible with the support of a crowdfunding campaign. She speaks to Hayley about her recovery.More than 60 women have made allegations of rape, sexual assault and sexual harassment against the US comedian and actor Bill Cosby. But only one woman, Andrea Constand, was able to gain a criminal conviction. In 2018, he was sent to prison for three to 10 years on three counts of aggravated indecent assault. At the time, it was celebrated as a major win for the #MeToo movement. Less than three years later, he was freed when the Pennsylvania Supreme Court overturned his conviction on a legal technicality. In a new two-part documentary exclusively for ITVX from 10 August, The Case Against Cosby, Andrea tells her story.It's been two years since the Taliban retook power in Afghanistan and during that time women and girls have found many curtailments on their liberty. Dr Nadia Nadim is Afghanistan's most successful and most influential female footballer. She fled to Denmark following the death of her father and has gone on to play for the Danish national team over 100 times. Dr Nadim joins Hayley to discuss her career and her hope for women and girls back home in Afghanistan.Presenter: Hayley Hassall Producer: Hanna Ward Studio Manager: Tim Heffer00:00 Opener 01:26 Megan Thee Stallion 07:48 Students Living At Home 16:45 Sarah De Lagarde 26:01 Andrea Constand 36:38 Fertility Anxiety 44:25 Afghanistan

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BBC Sounds. Music, radio, podcasts. Hello, I'm Hayley Hassell and welcome to the Woman's Hour podcast. Hello and a very warm welcome to Weekend Woman's Hour, where we gather up the highlights from the programme across the week and put them all in one place just for you. I'm Hayley Hassell and coming up this afternoon, Sarah DeLagarde, who survived falling into the tube tracks which resulted in her losing her right arm and leg, tells me about

her newly fitted bionic arm. It can help me with some basic functions and then from basic functions it can help me do some more intricate movements. We speak to Andrea Constant, the only woman who gained a criminal conviction against the US comedian and actor Bill Cosby out of more than 60 who made allegations against him and fertility anxiety. Do you worry you may not be able to conceive naturally? Journalist Sophie Gallagher shares her experiences. I think a lot of this is about people feeling completely disempowered,

not feeling fully educated about fertility and also just a general climate of anxiety that people feel around the economy and the climate. And we look at new research which suggests that more than a third of A-level students in England are considering living at home if they get into their preferred university next week due to rising costs. So grab a cup of tea and settle in. Now this week the Canadian rapper Tory Lanez has been sentenced to 10 years for the shooting of fellow musician Megan Thee Stallion. She required surgery to remove bullet fragments from her foot after he shot her following a party in 2020. The shooting polarised the music world and sparked conversation about how black female victims of violence

are treated in the music industry and in wider society. In a victim impact statement, Megan said, Slowly but surely, I'm healing and coming back, but I will never be the same. Claire was joined by the BBC's entertainment correspondent, Chishi Izunda, who began by taking us back to that fateful night in 2020. These two attended a party with a friend at the billionaire Kylie Jenner's house. She's a beauty

mogul. And it was a pool party. They were having a lot of fun. There was a lot of alcohol consumed. And then they decided to leave. And it seemed to be an argument ensued between the pair about their music and their lyrics and their type of style of rap. Then Meghan got out of the car and she claims that Tory Lanez told it, shouted dance and then shot her in the foot. And then she had to go and get help. And she had surgery to remove some of those bullet fragments from her feet. She says that basically he then apologised and offered her and the friend money to stay quiet about what happened. Even after the attack, it's reported that he continued to humiliate and re-traumatise her. And it's unusual that she took the stand

because initially she wasn't saying that that's what happened, was she? No, she wasn't. She just told her fans on Instagram that she'd been shot in the foot or she'd suffered a bullet wound and needed surgery. She didn't actually go into any detail. Then they took it to their music. They basically battled this out in their lyrics. They were talking about what happened without actually talking about what happened, saying, well, you know whater, and outlined what happened that night according to

her. And Tory Lanez continued to, if you like, put her down in social media in particular, which garnered him quite a following in terms of, well, she can't be telling the truth. And that is one fundamental problem that we have in the music industry when it comes to talking to women about violence is because the music industry, number one, has a lot of men in it. It's very unlikely that you will get the backing and support that you need. And number two, he was a much bigger star in the United States than she was at that particular time. Like the track Savage blew her up because she joined forces with Beyonce. So she was particularly at the start of her career. And she said that him talking about what happened that night,

lying about what happened that night, being derogatory about her on social media, in his music, damaged her career. Yeah, I mean, and this went back and forth, didn't it? In the music that both sides created. Indeed, since 2020, back and forth, they have both been spitting lyrics at each other about what happened. And nobody has really got to the bottom until the court case. And as you say, until Megan Thee Stallion took to the stand. Another point of this court case was just before

the court case happened, there were tapes that were leaked to social media of Tory Lanez supposedly talking to the friend that was in the car that had witnessed everything where he, without explicitly saying, outlined what happened that night. I think that was the turning point for Megan because she wasn't going to take the stand. She didn't want to make this into a public thing. And then she realized actually the power of her position. She was a woman who had gone out with a man who had decided to shoot her in the foot. She was being attacked on social media. She was being attacked in his music. And she was being attacked behind closed doors, as far as I'm aware, because in the music industry, it's an incredibly small industry. So she wanted to come out and defend not just her position, but other women that don't have the power and platform that she has in order to say it is important to speak out.

Yes. And we've had the sentence handed down now 10 years. Director of Victim Services at the Los Angeles District Attorney's Office, Tanisha Wright, spoke to reporters after the sentencing hearing and said this, violence against black women and girls is a long-standing national epidemic. And LA District Attorney said after the verdict that her fame helped bring attention to the issue of violence against women. So lots of people saying, is this case now an important moment, a watershed moment for black women in the US? Indeed, it is. She is just one of a number of black women that have tried to come forward to talk about the issue of violence, sexual violence, physical violence in the music industry, or just generally

a Black woman coming forward. Other examples are Drew Dixon, who made accusations against the founder of Def Jam Records, Russell Simmons, who denied those accusations. There's been other ones in the UK. Ray Black went on Twitter to talk about another rapper molesting her during a red carpet event. I've done a lot of stories about the former Radio 1 DJ Tim Westwood. It takes a lot for black women to come forward because number one, they never feel believed. Number two, they do not believe in the justice system with the history around racism and police and the court system. And number three, there is a weird code of you do not snitch. You do not talk about this outside of your community. So having someone who would have been seen as a strong woman who could take anything,

that's Megan Thee Stallion. Having someone of that calibre come out and say, this happened to me and I'm still healing, is a watershed moment. The BBC's Chi Chi is under there. Thousands of students across the UK will be heading off to university in a few weeks' time, and for many of them, it will be their first experience of living away from home. But at a time when finances are being squeezed, the option to move out has become unaffordable for many. New research by the Sutton Trust reveals that over a third of A-level students in England are considering living at home if they get into their preferred university next week. In some cases, students have only applied to local universities, even if they have a lower ranking, to make sure that they can save on the cost of moving away. Well, to discuss this, I was joined by the head of research of the Sutton Trust,

Rebecca Montague, as well as Laurie Cobham, who plans to study architecture at Liverpool University next year, alongside her mother, Rachel. I began by asking Rebecca what we know about how many students will stay at home. So we don't know exact overall numbers, but we know that 20% have said that they are definitely going to stay living at home and a further 14% have said that they are considering it if they get into their preferred university. So that's a considerable proportion out of all students who are saying that this is something that they're still actively considering.

In the last few years, that figure has been around 20%. So if some of those maybes do convert into definites, then we are going to see a rise in the proportion who are saying that they will actually live from home. Now, for some young people, that will be the right decision for them personally. They may have family issues that mean that they want to stay nearby, or they just really like being nearby their family and their friends but what we're really concerned about is the proportion of the young people saying they will stay at home who are doing so for financial reasons which is about a fifth of them now that means that they are being effectively forced to make this decision because of that financial strain rather than doing what is actually best for them. And that can impact on where they can apply, whether or not they actually able to fully take part in activities once they get to university as well. It's a lot harder to do, say, extracurricular activities if you have to constantly worry about the last bus, the last train home,

rather than someone who's based actually on campus and could, say, walk back quite easily. Of course. And so what is specific about this year's cohort of students? Because if I've worked it out correctly, they were probably doing their GCSEs or at least in year 10 studying for their GCSEs when lockdown hit. Has that had an effect on them? Do you think we're seeing the result of students and young people getting used to working at home? It's absolutely had an effect. And this group of young people have been really severely impacted by the pandemic. The study that this data is from, the COVID social mobility and opportunity study, is looking long term at the impact on this kind of pandemic generation.

But they are also now the cost of living generation. So they've been kind of hit by this double whammy of the experience of the pandemic, all the associated impact on how well they'll have done at school, really different for people from poorer backgrounds who are less likely to have access to that kind of tech at home, be able to learn effectively. But now they're going on to experience this other impact. And really importantly, the actual amount of student loan you can get as a maximum is only due to go up next year by 2.8 percent. Now we've had all these discussions about lots of different sectors asking for increased pay to make up for the cost of living but 2.8 percent compared to the level of inflation that we've been experiencing is absolutely tiny and when we did some work

earlier this year to look at students and the cost of living, we actually found about a third of working class students were cutting back on food and meals to be able to make ends meet. So they're simply not getting enough day to day to be able to afford to live. And that's then pushing, we think, this decision for more of them to be thinking about staying at home. Laurie, you're on the line with us. You're about to start in September your degree. Tell us what

your plans are from September and why you've chosen to make this route. Architecture always seemed like the right thing for me from when I was looking at jobs, you know, several years ago when I had to pick all my subjects. And thinking about all the loans I'd have to take out to be able to go to university I decided that staying in accommodation just wasn't worth the price to me. And of course architecture is a seven-year degree so that's a big ask isn't it there's seven years of independent living but how does it make you feel that you're having to consider cost of living in your decision? Yeah well it's definitely difficult because obviously I have looked at a lot of universities while I was thinking about what I

was going to do. And I have seen, you know, very good courses, very good unis, but they're too far for me to be able to commute to. So in the end, my decision was that I would do my best to stay local, which is obviously quite annoying, because then I do have to you know make some sacrifices like certain aspects of courses and things that are different that might have been you know better or otherwise which I have to like miss out on other things like that. I know your mummy's on the line now so we can't be too honest but obviously living at home has its benefits but are you not worried that it might impact on your social life, your independence, all those other things that you would have got from living elsewhere? Yeah, definitely. It will have an impact, you know, because a lot of people are still going to go into accommodation and doing after school clubs and, you know, student alliances and things like that, where you go out with all your friends and things.

And then they can just head straight back to their accommodation where you have to consider travelling and travel times and everything like that how do you feel about it there's only a few more weeks to go how are you feeling oh very nervous dreading it really oh no oh don't dread it it'll be great honestly now i'm going to come to you mum um rachel is here with us as well because i imagine you're torn on this on one hand you get to keep your little girl at home but on the other hand seven more years can I just rub that in again seven more years if you can be honest how do you feel about that well if I'm honest that that doesn't that doesn't worry me at all all I'm interested in what's best for Laurie so yeah it's whatever you know whatever she has to do I'm really conscious conscious for her about taking on massive debt

for the rest of her life. 40 years of debt. And how can an 18 year old or a 17 year old when she makes those choices know what the implications of that are? So, you know, I'm a sensible mum, budgeting wise, and my advice to her is to not borrow too much money if you can possibly avoid it. Of course and has this been purely a financial decision for you? I want the best for her and I would love to live in a world where she could go and stay in you know go to whatever university she wants to and stay there locally and take part in that independent living enjoying being part of the student community I'd love that for her but I just think that, as Laurie said,

the price is too high for that. And you have to make very pragmatic decisions in life, don't you? And do you think it has been, obviously, you've seen your child go through the pandemic and that lockdown situation, and now choosing to go to university near home. Do you think it has, you know, it's affected this year's cohort particularly? I think this year's cohort is just really getting a raw deal. Covid hit Laurie's year group the worst because she just embarked on the first year of two-year GCSEs. She's taken subjects that rely on GCSE learning for her A-levels and she didn't get the full learning through her GCSEs and she's done really well to do that. I'm so proud of her

how she just knuckled down with you know app-based learning at home for the best part of a year before things got really sorted out in schools. And she's done really well despite all of that. But now she's facing the biggest costs ever to go to university to realise her ambitions. The changes have happened quite quickly for young ones now and it's quite a big burden, isn't it? Yeah, it is a big burden to take on you're totally right. Rebecca I want to come back to you on this because are universities doing anything to make it more affordable? It is a massive burden for most people and some people let's be honest don't have the luxury of being able to stay at home so are they doing anything

to help? So some universities or many universities will have kind of bursaries, scholarships, grants available and extra support for people who are really struggling with the cost of living. So please do take a look at university websites, contact a university, see if there's any help available. But it's really important to stress that ultimately there needs to be more maintenance available for students. They don't have enough to live on at the moment and that needs to come from government. Universities can't fill that on their own. We would love to see the reintroduction of maintenance grants so that the poorest young people can actually get additional maintenance without adding to that additional debt burden and we think that would really help to just take the pressure off financially during the cost

of living crisis for these students. Rebecca Montague there from the Sutton Trust ending that interview. Now, Woman's Hour listeners will remember the remarkable story of Sarah DeLagarde, who came on the programme last December after surviving falling onto the tube tracks at a North London station. She was run over by two tube trains and lost her right arm and leg as a result. It's a miracle that she is alive today. When she was last on, I remember I was listening at home while I was painting my kitchen walls, as you do, and I literally held my breath and I shuddered all over as I listened to her powerful and honest interview. I remember she said, as I was waiting to be rescued, I was freezing cold in my chest,

and it was like a ball of ice. And at that point, I knew I was dying. I told the doctor and the doctor said, No, hold on, there are about 100 people trying to save you don't die yet. So I'm very glad that I didn't. And I'm very grateful to be alive. Well, Sarah joined us again on the programme. And this time time she has a newly fitted bionic arm. I began by asking how life has been since we last spoke to her. Well, there was a really long recovery period, and from January until July, and I guess it's still ongoing, right? A recovery isn't linear. It's always full of, you jump forward and you're very happy with

you know your progress and then all of a sudden something happens and it sets you back so it's it's it's a constant battle I'd say but I think I've made I made pretty decent progress since January particularly because you were left and without part of your leg and your arm on the right side and that must have meant massive life changes how how did you go from from from that to where you are now well the difficulty for me really is the acceptance that these injuries are for life right there's always a moment where in the morning I wake up and I'm still in between sleep and being awake. And every day, I just hope that this was just a nightmare and that things are going back

to normal. But unlike a broken limb, this is just my limbs are gone forever. And so it's been tough. But every day I have a choice when I wake up is to, you know, acknowledge the feelings of despair that I have and put that to one side and then focus on the positives, which is, you know, I'm still alive. I'm out here. I get to test this amazing technology over and my children are happy to have their mum. Yes. And we're happy to have you too and amazing

to see you there with with your bionic arm can you talk to us about what that process was like getting your arm how you managed it and how it's working for you now? So the arm is an incredible piece of technology and I was so excited to test it out and I'm still in the phase where I test things and I'm not sure sometimes whether the arm controls me or whether I do control it but we're becoming friends and what is exciting about this is that the technology is quite groundbreaking I'd say. The socket that you can see here has got electrodes embedded within and these electrodes are measuring my muscle movements. So that's the top of the arm where it connects to almost your shoulder and that can sense your muscle movements? Correct and so my brain instructs the muscles to make a combination of movements

these twitches are then translated into electrical impulses that then feed the elbow and the hand ultimately and it's exciting because it kind of it will never replace my arm so we have to be realistic about that but it can help me with some basic functions uh and then from basic functions it can help me do some more intricate movements it's incredibly amazing and i know i know you're at the stage where you're making yourself breakfast and things like that which must just be feel phenomenal to you but i know it's not easy is it um it's very heavy and it and it is difficult that's right it's really heavy so um you know when I take it off it is a relief and when I wear it for too many hours I can sense it you know the next day I would have some muscle aches in in my

back and in my shoulders but I've prepared for this for six months right so I had so many hundreds of physio hours to get to this stage and day by day I'm learning to control it a little bit more at the moment it's not terribly exciting I'm afraid but it does do you know functions like I can pick up a glass I can hold my knife and cut a melon the other day. And I was quite excited about that. And I know it's strange to people who still have their limbs because it's such an innate thing. We don't think about the way we use our limbs. But it's different for me. I now cherish every single little movement that I can make. Of course, of course. And you are so positive about this.

That's what's always struck me about you is you're just so, the fact that you're camping at the moment in France, aren't you? And you are wanting to go out there walking and getting your action back. But I know it's taken a while and it's expensive as well, isn't it? How have you managed to get to where you are I was incredibly lucky that I received so much support from my friends and family and colleagues and and complete strangers as well which is absolutely astonishing I can't tell you how much I cried in the first two months and it wasn't necessarily because I was feeling sorry for myself. I was so taken, overwhelmed by the response that people had and everybody wanted to help.

And so my husband had the brilliant idea to set up this GoFundMe page because people wanted to help, but they didn't know exactly how. And we had investigated a little around how much a prosthetic arm would cost. And we were shocked by the pricing. I mean, it's the price of a very nice sports car. And we wouldn't have been able to afford this. And sadly, the NHS has been extraordinary at saving my life but the waiting list to get to a to to an NHS funded arm is really really long and it's frustrating for someone who would like to go back and be active as you said and so the GoFundMe page was was a great solution to privately fund this. And I couldn't believe that within,

the amount was so high. And I remember telling my husband, like, we will never get to, I mean, we were talking about 250,000 pounds, which is an extraordinary amount. Yes. And we would never get there. And within two and a half weeks,

we reached our goal, which was so astonishing astonishing I can't tell you I was I cried so much because of that because it was really you know the support of people that got me to this point oh I bet and and such a life-changing you know it's not just about the money it's completely life-changing for you hasn't it you talk about the support there from people but how has the support been in the prosthetic community have you had sort of support dealing with that and and learning to to work with your new life all of a sudden I became a member of a club that nobody wants to be part of and and I realized that um there are quite a few amputees worldwide and a lot of them I found using social media.

And they've been a source of support, but also sharing tips and tricks as to how to just accept your life as an amputee. So quite positive. Sarah DeLagarde speaking there. Her incredible story. And you can listen to Sarah's first interview with us by going to BBC Sounds and searching for the episode of Woman's Hour from the 16th of December.

Still to come on the programme, I speak to Afghanistan's most successful and most influential female footballer, Dr Nadia Nadim. And with Listener Week coming up, we want to hear from your kids. Do they have some great life advice that they'd like to share with the Woman's Hour audience?

Maybe it's about how to be happy, calm, or how to play and have fun. Let us know as the parent or guardian and we could get in touch and feature it on our Listener Week. You can text WOMANSHOUR84844. Text will be charged at your standard message rate and check with your network provider for

exact costs. Or on social media it's at BBC WOMENSHOUR or you can email us through our website. And remember that you can enjoy WOMENSHOUR any hour of the day if you can't join us live at 10am during the week. Just subscribe to the daily podcast for free by heading to BBC Sounds.

More than 60 women have made allegations of rape, sexual assault and sexual harassment against the US comedian and actor Bill Cosby. But only one woman, Andrea Constance, was able to gain a criminal conviction. In 2018, he was sent to prison for three to ten years on three accounts of aggravated indecent assault. At the time, it was celebrated as a major win for the Me Too movement. Less than three years later, he was freed when the Pennsylvania Supreme Court overturned his conviction on illegal technicality. Well, in a new two-part documentary for ITVX,

The Case Against Cosby, Andrea tells her story. She joined Claire on the programme and explained why she wanted to revisit this 20 years on. Well, I thought it was important to tell the story, you know, to show the journey of survivors, obviously. And to highlight, you know, not only the authenticity and to really kind of talk about the trauma, you know, which is what we, what we really dive very deeply into, into this documentary, you know, trauma can be really uncomfortable and painful, especially, you know, watching other people go through it.

Although we don't often do that unless we're in a group setting or in a retreat or in group therapy. But I thought it was important just to kind of dive into the truth of the story, into the authenticity of the story, and to actually shine a light on the survivors. Because in so many instances, when predators and abusers are powerful, wealthy, famous people, you know, often the limelight is on them. And I felt that in this story, it was important to work with the director to really show the damage and the collateral damage that is often done with sexual assault survivors, not only for them, for their families, for their friends. And I think you get to see what it's like in the world of a survivor in this documentary.

And we're very proud of it. You really do. It's traumatic, but at the same time, very uplifting. And if you don't mind, for people who don't know your story, just to go back to the beginning of this, you describe yourself as confident, outgoing, 29 to 30 year old, working at Temple University in Philadelphia. So tell us how your paths crossed with Bill Cosby back then? Yeah, so, you know, at the time, it was really the culmination of my dream job in the basketball world. And I played basketball as a youngster and went on to college and received a scholarship. And so for me, and then also played as well in Europe for a couple of years, I kind of ended my career in Italy playing professionally in the first league there. And so this was kind of a job that I kind of came back

to. And it was a real, it was a dream job for me with a head coach that was actually an incredible head coach. And I happened to be at a basketball game. I had already been at Temple for just over a year. And I was at a basketball game. And that's how I crossed paths with Bill Cosby. I was introduced to him by another trustee at the university. And, you know, all under the guise of wanting to look at the new locker room that we had installed at the arena. And it was all very innocent, you know. But after 18 months of a friendship and a mentorship, you know, obviously it wasn't innocent and it wasn't a friendship.

It was very much, you know, 18 months of knowing him, of being groomed by him, only to culminate in an evening at his Andrea that I was, like you say, confident, bright eyed, a free spirit. You know, I walked out of his house a completely different person. And just one night really changed me. And so, you know, that's become my journey. The past 20 years has really been a healing journey for me. And I think, you know, I think it was important to do this documentary to actually show what it's like for survivors to heal and what that looks like. But for me, it's been a 20 year journey. And I look at the person who I am today, and I never thought that I could ever be the person that I am today. You buried this, though, didn't you when you walked out of that house,

but everybody around you noticed you changed quite significantly. Yes, yes, I did. You know, it's it's that humiliation and that shame, you know, and I think often those situations really disconnect us, you know, from who we really are in our ability to speak out and, you know, a relative, a person you work with, you know, harassment in the workplace. You know, the harassment and the assault can just, it can show up in any way. It's been a journey. And this is the journey you take us on. I mean, just to give people detail who haven't followed your case you launched the civil case in 2005 uh criminal charges filed in 2017 um because there was a settlement um and then you effectively sort of moved on with your life didn't you after this after this civil

case and settlement so what exactly was it that that brought you out again to say, you know, this was the time to face him in court? Yeah, that's, I mean, it's a very good point. I went through all that, the civil stuff, which was really, you know, early on, it was tough because I was going up against such a powerful person. And then the criminal case, of course, which was very daunting, really daunting process for me, although I did look, you know, I was strong and I think I was strong enough to have been the person to go through that. But I think ultimately, it was my drive for closure is really what kept me going. And I really felt like it was very hard to watch all the other survivors come forward. You know, as they came forward, it was like back in the civil case, we knew that there were 13 Jane Does in my case.

But my case never went to trial. But I knew there were other women. And so that for me was a bigger secret. Although I had a secret for a whole year that I held inside of what he did to me, I came out of that civil situation with an even bigger secret that he had done this to other people. And so I think in 2018, when I started to hear a lot of the other women's stories come forward, it was really emotional for me to watch and to see them all come forward. You know, and they were kind of paraded in front of the media, you know, and often left in tears.

And so it was really emotional for me. And I think having seen that, having seen the impact and the hurt, you know, what this man, who he truly was and what he led a life of. I mean, to everybody, he was America's dad at the time. You know, he was, you know, all over the world. I'm sure probably in the UK as well. There might be people that have seen his early shows like The Cosby Show or Fat Albert. But I wanted to show the truth of who he really was. And so for me, I had to sacrifice a lot of my life and a lot of many, almost four or five years going through those trials, you know, to kind of get that justice. It was what I so desired was to get justice, you know, to show the truth of who he was. And so that

is really what drove me. And, you know, I look back now and I'm like, you know, at photos of me, you know, coming out of the courtroom, et cetera, et cetera. And I often say, like, I don't know how I did it. It's surreal. Bill Cosby was sentenced to prison, rather, for three to ten years in 2018. But as I mentioned earlier, less than three years later, the Pennsylvania Supreme Court overturned the verdict on a legal technicality. He has always maintained his innocence. So what impact did that Supreme Court decision have on you? For me, I was just happy that he had served a minimum time,

although it was not anywhere I felt, I felt that the true crime and the true breadth of all the predation he had committed deserved 10 years. But having seen him serve three years, it was okay with me. I was okay with everything. But what I was not okay with is the message that it would send to other survivors, you know, who might be coming forward, who might want to report to the police what their abusers have done to them, because they might think, you know what, well, look at Andrea's situation. She reported, yeah, he went to jail, but, you know, he only got the minimum term. He ended up coming out.

So I didn't want that to serve as a message that, you know, don't bother coming forward because it's really not worth it. It is worth it. I can sit here today and say it's worth it. It's worth it for your healing. It's worth it, you know, to not stay in silence anymore, because silence, ultimately, it will make us sick. Andrea Constance speaking there, and the case against Cosby is streaming now on ITVX. I should say that Bill Cosby maintains all sexual encounters were consensual, and he has maintained his innocence in Andrea's case. Now, do you have fertility anxiety? Do you

worry you may not be able to conceive naturally? Well, we've been exploring why some women fear they can't easily have children, despite having no known health issues. The NHS says one in seven couples may have difficulty conceiving, but that 84% of couples will conceive naturally within a year if they have regular unprotected sex. However, Sophie Gallagher, who raised this topic in a recent piece for the iNewspaper, says the feeling among her and her friends is that it won't be easy for them. Claire was joined by Sophie herself on the programme alongside Dr Ellie Cannon, an NHS GP and author. Sophie began by explaining when she started to feel this anxiety. So I'm 32 now, so probably within the last five years. I think it's not only an ageing thing,

it's also a social thing, looking at friends, looking at colleagues, looking at sort of what's happening around you. And that adds to it. But I'd say probably within the last five years, and it's becoming more pronounced the older I'm getting. And you had a sort of flurry of friends getting pregnant didn't you? Probably eight of my friends in the last few months have all got pregnant around a similar time and I think that sort of if not exacerbates the issue it definitely makes it a talking point among people and I think what I started to notice was that some of these people have had you know quite long journeys to to getting pregnant but that several of them had not and those people had sort of said in hushed tones god you know if I thought it was going to be that

easy I might have waited a little longer or might have done this or whatever beforehand um but because of this anxiety they had felt the need to press on to, you know, to start trying and then, well, you know, the obvious happens. So I think it, it made me think that perhaps I wasn't alone in that. And, and as now, you know, now the pieces come out, we've seen absolutely not alone in that. Where did your friends tell you their anxiety came from that they might not be able to get pregnant that easily? So I think it's a sort of, you know, it's a multi-factor thing, right? I think we have to look at the reality of the situation,

which is that women are having children later and later. You know, 50% now of women when they reach their 30th birthday do not have children. And that is a new thing. That's a particularly modern thing. So that is a reality. But I think on top of that we have social media which is playing a huge role in this not only in terms of people more widely sharing stories of fertility troubles which is a really good thing that's good that we're talking about that more openly but I think that that's not being

counterbalanced by people then saying well it was really easy for us because, I mean, who wants to share that, you know? So you've got this slightly skewed narrative. And then you also have a lot of these products that we've sort of spoken about, fertility testing, fertility MOT. There's a whole cottage industry there looking to make money. And that obviously thrives on people's anxieties because then you're more likely to spend money investigating. Good point to bring in Dr Ellie Cannon. So you see a lot of this in your surgery, don't you? So tell us when people come to you, what are they waving in your face?

I've worked in the same GP surgery for 15 years so it's quite easy for me to sort of see the trends and see what's happening. And what I've really noticed over the last few years is that women who are trying to conceive in the main will only do that with the help of an app. And as you said in the statistics sort of at the start, that the majority of couples will get pregnant naturally just by having regular intercourse throughout the year, throughout the month, whatever it may be and yet there is there is certainly what i've noticed anecdotally um a need and an anxiety coming from people having to time intercourse with the app testing ovulation is very very mainstream now um and all of these things which absolutely sort of spoke to sophie's piece about what is happening for women of this age group and this anxiety that

they're being driven into. What are the facts then? That's what we need to get to when it comes to fertility. How many people can expect to have complications when looking to conceive? Women are sold this narrative that your fertility falls off a cliff and that's often the expression used after the age of 35. So to give people an idea, a woman who is 30, who is having unprotected sex for a year with her partner, she has about a 70% chance of getting pregnant after a year. And there'll be many more who get pregnant a bit after a bit longer, maybe 18 months, maybe even two years. Naturally, I'm speaking with no aids, no help whatsoever. Once we're at 40, it has fallen, of course, it's fallen, but actually, it's fallen to 40%. So it isn't zero. And I think what Sophie's piece speaks to is the fact that women are being sold the idea that it falls to zero. And actually, if you look at some of the technologies that women are buying into, like egg freezing, like fertility testing, actually, if you look at some of the technologies that women are buying into, like egg freezing, like fertility testing, you know, what do you think to that then?

A lot of your friends, were they saying that? Did they show you the apps? Did they have the ovulation kits? So not a lot of my friends, but lots of the case studies who I spoke to for the piece and then people subsequently emailing me had said, you know, I'd spent hundreds of pounds on this. And then actually, we were talking about this before, I'd spent you know hundreds of pounds on this and then actually we were talking about this before I'd taken it to my GP and they're not doing anything about it and that puts people you know people in a really difficult position because doctors don't want to act on this single piece of evidence from you know private testing. I think a lot of this is about

people feeling completely disempowered not feeling fully educated about fertility, those fears being capitalised on by people looking to make money, and there's a lot of money to be made there. And also just a general climate of anxiety that people feel around the economy and the climate. They're struggling with housing, they're struggling with a lot of those traditional milestones, and fertility is just another thing to be aware is slipping away from you, you know, and trying to proactively do something about that. So back to the facts again, Dr. Cannon, fertility and hormones levels, your hormone levels will fluctuate throughout your monthly cycle. So what can these sticks and these apps tell you that a doctor can't tell you? Well, I mean, that is the most pertinent question,

because they're not telling people what people think they are. So there's lots of tests out there. AMH, which is talked about as egg reserve, which is the sort of longevity one, how long can I wait? Things like progesterone, looking at when you might be ovulating. The medical profession looks after 25% of infertile couples who will have all of their tests normal. So what that tells us is that these tests are not, they're not the be all and end all. You can have your hormones tested and they'll be absolutely fine. You'll be sold false reassurance and actually your infertility will come from your partner or from your fallopian tubes, which wouldn't have been picked up on one of these tests. Likewise as you rightly say hormone levels fluctuate, women's cycles are different, medication can change things, all sorts of things

can change things so you might be sold actually really sort of fear when actually you'll get pregnant very easily. Journalist Sophie Gallagher and Dr Ellie Cannon speaking to Claire. Next week will mark two years since the Taliban retook power in Afghanistan. During that time, women and girls have found many curtailments on their liberty and on their way of life. Women and girls are banned from schools, colleges and universities. They must dress in a way that only reveals their eyes and have to be accompanied by male relatives if travelling more than 50 miles. Women have been banned from working for aid agencies and from visiting parks, gyms and swimming pools.

Football is also not allowed. We are also in the middle of the Women's World Cup, which we've been following very closely here on the programme. Well, I was able to speak to Afghanistan's most successful and most influential female footballer, Dr Nadia Nadim. Nadia first kicked a football at the age of 11 whilst in a Danish refugee camp. Her family had been forced to flee Afghanistan following the death of her father at the hands of the Taliban. Dr Nadia Nadim has gone on to represent Denmark, missing out on this year's World Cup due to her injury,

but she's also a medical doctor, qualifying just last year. She is now in the States playing for racing Louisville FC. She joined me recently on a rare day off. I asked for her reflections as we mark the anniversary of the Taliban's latest takeover of Afghanistan, and I began by asking what her upbringing in the country was like. I have a really, you know, mixed memory of my time in Afghanistan as a child. First part of it is beautiful. I've, you know, been raised in a very safe environment, safe family.

My mom, dad worked and we used to go kindergarten and everything. And then the last part of it, it was when after the Taliban gained power my dad was executed and we were almost on a run with my mom and five kids I think my mom you know is she chose yeah to leave the country um try to find a home somewhere else around the world and then somehow we you know Denmark became a new home I guess. The picture you paint is so vivid especially because your father was killed by the Taliban in 2000 and and then that meant as you say your your mother left the country she was she was protecting you and your four sisters and that meant you moved to Denmark and and but it was there wasn't it that your love

for football began because you were in a refugee camp and I suppose that was the only thing you could do what was what was that like for you that first moment when you started to have a kick about do you remember it of course I remember it it's like probably one of the you know most significant moments in my life because it changed my entire life and my entire being, I suppose. Imagine being a girl, a kid who for years and years just been like in a little box and being scared of what's outside and everyone trying to protect you and you weren't allowed to do this, this, this.

And then suddenly we arrived at this refugee camp and then there were no wars outside I could just go out and and just be safe so me and my sister really quickly we just started exploring the refugee camp what was around there what was happening and very quickly that we find out this you know that the camp was next to this football club and they had the most amazing fields with perfect goals everything just lined up sharp I remember the first day I saw a girl's team play football I can describe you in details what was smell was how the sun was because that was how important that day was to me I saw this girl playing football and they looked so happy and they looked so free.

And until that moment, I didn't know that women could play any sports. So when I saw it, I knew I was in love with the game. I was like, I wanted to be that person. I wanted to be on the field. And so, yeah, we started playing with ourselves, kicking around this little dodgeball that we have, like a bouncy rubber ball. And after a couple of months, it wasn't enough for for me I wanted to be a part of a team I wanted to do what they were doing so we went from hanging outside the fences to have a bit more courage and be around the kids and one day I just said you know what I'm gonna go for it we went I asked the coach I said me, me on the field. And he said, yeah. You're limited language, but you were like me, field, please.

Basically, international language, you know, it's like. And he said, you know, to my surprise, to be honest, yes, because I didn't expect it to be that easy. I was expecting for me to somehow beg him, please. But he said right away, yes, I trained and trained. And then a couple of months off, he gave me a note which said Saturday 12th here, first game. I remember running back to, you know, to the camp,

around to my mom and I was like explaining to her that it was important for me to have some cleats because this was my first game and everyone's wearing cleats. I can't play with tennis shoes on grass. And so we went to a secondhand store and luckily or unluckily for me, there was these Adidas boots from 1938. Wow. Very, very old, but I didn't care.

You know, I slept in them. I showered with them because someone had told me if you wet them and then wear them, they're going to spit your feet. They really didn't. Nothing changed. Nothing helped. Not even showering. Nothing helped, but I didn't really care. You know, what mattered was that I was a part of something and I was accepted. The way you describe this refugee camp, you know, I'm sure it wasn't all goodness and light, but actually it gave you hope and it gave you a dream. And you've gone on to have a hugely successful career playing for the Danish international side and for some of the most successful women's clubs around the world.

You've got Manchester City, Paris Saint-Germain. Like, what is it about football? Honestly, I think it kind of was fate that it was football. I think I had such a desire to do something with my life because I was given a second chance that no matter what I did I probably had had succeeded in it because I was very hungry I was like hungry for like be free football made it easy for me because it is an easy sport you don't have to be rich to play football you just have something around to pick and I can hear that hunger and that passion in your voice you've got so much of it and obviously we're speaking to you right now to coincide with it being two years since the Taliban retook power in your home country of Afghanistan how did you

feel two years ago when the group that killed your father took power again it was very very hard to swallow uh I I was feeling sorry for you, all the women and all the girls in the country. And I was feeling sorry for them right now, but also for their future, because you're taking away their tools they can use to build a future, you know, not attending school. How on earth are you ever going to compete with any other woman who's been living in a different country if you're not allowed to go to school? It's such a basic thing, you know If you're not allowed to go to school, it's such a basic thing. You know, we're not asking for big things. It's just going to school so you can learn to read, so you understand what's happening around you.

I really, really hope that it's going to change. I really hope that, you know, at some point something happens, they wake up and they're like, you know what? This is kind of stupid. Maybe you should let 50% of our society be a part of the society because they can add to it they can be a part of like developing it and have a better future and of course it's not just in afghanistan where women are under pressure or sidelined i mean alongside your footballing career you qualified as a medical doctor and you specialize in reconstructive

surgery but I understand that you were told you wouldn't be able to do both what did that feel like and how did you push those boundaries to make it happen it's funny you know you we always talk about what kind of things other kids are around around the world as you mentioned you know Afghanistan, Porto, Africa, South America girls have like very limited access. And there are so many boundaries around them, what you're allowed to do, what you're not allowed to do. And I thought once arriving in Denmark that those wouldn't exist or in Europe.

But that's not true. That's far from it. You know, we still have been put in boxes every day. And there's still so many boundaries around you because, oh, you are a female or you cannot do this and that. I remember playing you know at the high level and I started med school my second trimester I was just being selected for the national team in Algarve and my selection fell at the same time as one of the biggest exams

so I went because obviously I want to go with the national team and I went and talked to university and I said give me some solutions please because I'm it's so hard for me to be two places at the same time and the lady looked at me dead in my eyes and said you have I guess you have to choose now I thought it was it was stupid again I was put in a box and this was your limits and you have to make a choice I was like no there should be more there should options. I refuse to like accept this. So, yeah. And somehow, what, 12 years later, here I am. I remember when I came out, when I came out of my last exams and I was obviously very emotional because the pressure, like you have no idea. And I start getting emotional and I was remembering her face and I said, I'm going to find the lady and tell her in your face, I've told you.

I did it. I did it I did it look I can do both oh yeah exactly so it might take you ages but you know what you are capable of there's so much more in the world that you can do and of course now your two professions in a way although they're very different they do intersect when it comes to the topic of injuries I mean you yourself I know have suffered from an ACL injury twice in your career. I've had an ACL injury as well. And some of the players from last year's Euros aren't playing this year's World Cup

because of them. What are you calling for with your campaign in this area? I think one of the things is to create awareness that this is impacting girls way more than the men's. And the reason for it,

I don't think there's one reason. I think we need more funding to have more research to find out how we can prevent this. You know, let's be honest. You know, I think until now, for a female player, everything that I do is,

I would say something that has been designed to a male player. We just replicate it because there's not enough research understanding how our bodies work. But now when the women's game is growing as it does and there's more money in it,

I think it's on time for us to take action and try to understand the female body. You know, you by nature build where you have your muscles or weak around your knee is something that we need to educate the younger girls. It sounds like you've got a lot of work on your hands and I hope you keep pushing that. I know lots of listeners will have come across you during the Men's World Cup in Qatar where you were a pundit for the TV coverage. But I remember you had to leave the set very suddenly during one game because you learned that your mother had very suddenly died following a road accident. That must have been incredibly difficult. And I'm so sorry that that that that happened. And you told us earlier about your early life with her. Can you tell me more about her and her influence on you?

One of the strongest human beings I've ever seen. She was like the tiny lady, but had like a power of, I don't know what, like a supernova in her. She gave us, like my siblings, a second chance in life. I always thought that everything I am or most of my genes is because of my dad, because he was athletic and he was like a super smart guy. But the older I get, the more I think I'm more my mom, because it's not about everything else. It's just about the heart and the passion that she had and the willpower that she used to have. I see so much of myself in her. And I guess most people say this, but I'm so happy that I got to have her as my mum.

Dr Nadia Nadim speaking to me there. Well, that's all from me on Weekend Woman's Hour. Thanks so much for your company. You can join Nuala on Monday, where we will hear about the experience of being an old age orphan and why the death of elderly parents can be particularly hard on their children

when they are older themselves. That's Woman's Hour on Monday from 10am. Well, thanks for listening. There's plenty more from Woman's Hour on BBC Sounds. I'm Sarah Trelevan, and for over a year, I've been working on one of the most complex stories I've ever covered. There was somebody out there who's faking pregnancies. I started, like, warning everybody. Every doula that I know. It was fake.

No pregnancy. And the deeper I dig, the more questions I unearth. How long has she been doing this? What does she have to gain from this? From CBC and the BBC World Service, The Con, Caitlin's Baby. It's a long story, settle in. Available now.