Woman's Hour - Wet Leg's Rhian, HRT shortage, Women and boxing

Episode Date: April 22, 2022

The indie band Wet Leg went straight to number 1 last week with their debut album. Their songs are witty: all about love, sex, parties and breakups. We speak to one of the band members, Rhian Teasdale.When it comes to losing weight why is the word “diet” used less and less these days? The diet industry is worth billions, but lots of people think the word itself is unhelpful. We talk to Dr Saira Hameed, an NHS Consultant who specialises in obesity medicine at Imperial College London. She's also the author of The Full Diet. And we also have Rhiannon Lambert, who's a Nutritionist.Can boxing transform lives? The actor Idris Elba thinks it might and he's got a series called Fight School which is currently on BBC 2. He’s recruited a group of eight young men and women, giving them an intensive boxing course with the aim of improving confidence and resilience. There's another goal which is to compete in an amateur fight. Chanika is one of the young women taking part, and Rachel Bower is one of the boxing coaches on the show. Rachel is also a former National Boxing champion and a Metropolitan police sergeant. They come into the Woman's Hour studio to speak to Anita.When it comes to getting HRT, MPs have been accused, once more, of betraying millions of menopausal women by failing to improve access to it as they promised. In October ministers announced a 'menopause revolution' but the plan to cut the cost of HRT doesn't come about until next April and now tens of thousands of women are suffering because of a nationwide shortage. But what's the impact of not having your gel or patch? Anita is joined by Dr Nighat Arif, a GP, plus author and documentary maker Kate Muir.

This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK. I'm Natalia Melman-Petrozzella, and from the BBC, this is Extreme Peak Danger. The most beautiful mountain in the world. If you die on the mountain, you stay on the mountain. This is the story of what happened when 11 climbers died on one of the world's deadliest mountains, K2, and of the risks we'll take to feel truly alive. If I tell all the details, you won't believe it anymore. Extreme, peak danger. Listen wherever you get your podcasts.

BBC Sounds. Music, radio, podcasts. Hello, I'm Anita Rani and welcome to Woman's Hour from BBC Radio 4. Good morning everyone. It is nice to be back in the Woman's Hour chair, but what I'd like to know is, where are you seated this morning? Hey you, over there, on the chaise longue In your underwear What are you doing Sitting down You should be horizontal now It's good, isn't it?

You might already know it. It's Chaise Longe, the first release by Isle of Wight duo Wet Leg. Their debut album is at number one in the UK. The girls have done good and Rhiann will be on the show

to talk to me a little bit later on. Then also this morning, generations didn't talk about it. It was seen as a taboo subject that women just had to disappear and deal with. Your mothers and grandmothers may well have had a very different experience to you, whether you've gone through it, are dealing with it right now or will go through it in the future.

I'm talking about the menopause. But today on the show, we absolutely want to talk about it. We want to hear about your experiences of it, whether you've gone through it yourself or memories of the people around you going through it. We want to know about the real impact of menopause on your life. There's an HRT shortage at the moment and some women are having to resort to getting their drugs from other women in car parks. What is pushing them to these dodgy dealings? Get in touch with me. Tell me your experiences. A taboo no more. We don't deal with, we deal with taboos very well on Woman's Hour. Let's understand your lived experiences of

menopause. Night sweats, brain fog, anxiety, not being able to work is a big one, not being understood. Whatever your experience, get in touch. You can text me, 84844. You can also email us by going to our website or you can contact us on social media. It's at BBC Woman's Hour. Also in the next hour, we'll be discussing idris elba's new tv show

which may inspire some of you to want to take up boxing get in the ring for a few swings maybe some of you already do a combat sport what's the appeal and we'll be traveling to china today to understand what it means to speak out for women's rights over there but first when it comes to losing weight, you might often hear people talking about healthy eating, intermittent fasting, calorie counting, or even that broad term wellness, but not necessarily using the word diet. Has it become a dirty word? When was the last time you said you were on a diet? Would you admit to it? Well, according to the British Heart Foundation, the UK diet industry is worth around £12 billion a year or £220 billion worldwide.

But has the word diet fallen out of favour when it comes to talking about our health and weight management. To discuss this, Dr. Saira Hameed, who's an NHS consultant with a speciality in obesity medicine at Imperial College London and author of The Full Diet. And Rhiannon Lambert is a registered nutritionist and a Sunday Times bestselling author. Welcome to Women's Hour, both of you. Rhiannon, I'm going to come to you first. Has it become a dirty word? Well, I think the word diet's completely lost its context hasn't it because of course to um myself as a health professional it's simply what you eat every day but really sadly to my clients that come to my my clinical practice the nutrition clinic or those people seeking out ways to lose weight um it can mean, I think, restriction. And I think a lot of people

associate the word itself with experiences they've potentially had impacting their mental health. And it's also a word that's sought out when people want to lose body fat, or they're thinking about their appearance, they go, I must go on a diet. So yes, to answer answer your question I think that the word itself now has two complete different meanings to people and that's societal just as much as anything else. Saira I'm going to bring you in because as Rhiannon was just saying there the word diet has different meanings it can either mean the kind of food a person or animal or community habitually eats but of course it can also restriction, either to lose weight or for medical reasons. How would you say your patients see the word when they come to your clinic?

Thanks, Anissa. Good morning. And hi, Rhiannon. Lovely to be on Women's Hour. So great question. Mixed feelings is the answer. So on the one hand, as Rhiannon said it's a convenient shorthand to describe I'm making some changes to the way I eat usually to try to lose weight that's the context we most associate it with on the other hand it's not a word that tends to fill my patients with pleasure because lots of diets that they've tried in the past didn't feel good and importantly they didn't work so very often when our patients first come to our specialist nhs weight loss clinic at imperial they are tired and they've been on the diet merry-go-round for years and they aren't

getting the results they're looking for so when i first talked to them about intensive lifestyle change and the program we run at the imperial weight center i consciously don't use the word diet because that word might suggest to my patients that it's just going to be more of the same when in fact what we do is very very different um in particular the word diet might imply that weight loss and health improvements are just about changing the food that you eat when in fact it's essential to approach this in a far more kind of whole person whole life holistic way in order to get off that diet merry-go-round to get the long-term results that we and our patients are looking for it's

really interesting but you've still you've still um used the word diet in your book I noticed I have I have I have um so this was subject to a huge amount of discussion because um as I said I don't use the word diet when I'm running the weight loss program at Imperial and you know if any of the patients in my group uh use the use the word diet we all say oh you use the d word so how does that how does that kind of come good then with the title of my book well when people are looking to lose weight and improve their health that's the word that most frequently comes to mind so the word diet really has come to be a shorthand for making some changes in order to lose weight so my book is based on this highly effective program that we run here at imperial science science-based, evidence-based, that's had life-changing results for our patients.

As a doctor, I want to get that knowledge and know-how all covered in my book into as many hands as possible. So to do that, I need to succinctly say on the tin what the book is about so if someone has health improvement or weight loss in mind when they see the book for a second online or in the supermarket they very quickly understand the purpose and the message of the book so basically people see the word diet on a book and are happy to buy the book but they wouldn't necessarily admit that they might be on a diet in real life Rhiannon is that what's changed is this about sort of marketing then so sorry yes yeah yeah no I was just going to say I can completely hear exactly what you were saying it makes um it makes sense and it's important to educate people about the overall holistic approach now this is long term it's a lifestyle that you know changes that have to be implemented

long term but one of the problems we see is that you're either a person that's going to seek out the word diet, like you quite rightly said, a lot of the population will be seeking out that specific word in order to achieve a specific goal. Whereas you've got other people now that are out there that are deliberately avoiding that word. And then sadly, I see a lot in my clinical practice and writing the science of nutrition, my book, I discovered that a lot of people are looking away from that word. But diets are now in disguise. So there's a lot of programs, a lot of apps that are being developed at the moment, a lot of books that are calling themselves a halo. But actually,

in fact, they are just another diet in disguise and what we know is that one size doesn't fit all so while some people have success on one dietary program it won't necessarily of course apply to everyone it depends on what support network they have at home and education so many factors is this do you think women are afraid to use the word with each other it used to be a time where you know know, happily people would say, oh, I'm on a diet. Oh, I can't eat. I'm just on the salad today because, you know, I'm watching the pounds. But now culturally something has shifted.

Culturally, we don't admit to this. We might be going through wellness and we might be looking at things using different terminology. But we wouldn't use the word diet. Why do you think that is? Why do you think we're going to be judged if we say it, Rhiannon? I mean, if you look at it, I love this type of conversation because there will still be pockets of society that will actively use this language. But the language has changed and a lot of people now, due to social media awareness social media is not all good it has its pros and its cons but I have to say that it is almost a taboo people don't want to say I am on a diet actively out loud but this creates problems in itself we've got two sides of the coin here we've really got the fact that if people need help we need to be very open

and honest and discuss that well a dietary change has to be made there is no miracle there is no pseudoscience halo or panacea that's going to solve it for everybody because a lot of the time a lot of products that are marketed out there in the diet industry not called diet specifically can be dangerous that's the worrying thing you can sell anything online these days and a lot of women that perhaps it is women in particular and I shouldn't create a immediate gender bias because of course men and women want to lose weight but I think women have been targeted to be smaller you know society says women need to shrink down and men need to bulk up yeah bulk up which is it's just these subliminal messages that we get over our life our life course um that really impact how we discuss our own bodies with

one another it's really sad we should embrace all shapes and sizes to a degree of course but then there's the health aspect as well um and syra you are at the front line you know you're seeing people at all the extreme ends of diet, if you like. When I talk about diet, I'm talking about what we consume, you know, people who are overweight and underweight. So, you know, what are you experiencing? How have you seen the sort of language around this change and conversations around body positivity and body autonomy? Like what are you experiencing when your patients come to you i think what people really like about coming here is that we are moving the conversation on so i think when you come to a unit like this imperial unit you're expecting something

different and boy do you get it we're imperial college so we're all about science and so when you explain to people this is the physiology this is the biology this is the genetics this is the psychology this is how you work rather than just giving people a list of rules and regulations they love it and they own it i feel like that's what we all need i feel like every single person in society we all need to be taught that that this is uh what we need to understand about our bodies rather than what Rhiannon's just talking about. You know, the fact that we are still so influenced by this culture of, I guess, on the one hand, yes, body positivity, but also being told that we need to be small. Yeah, I just think it's so empowering.

Once you have the information and I say this to my patients you then can make the choice you can't make the choice without information so we share everything that we know I say to my patients my goal is to make you as expert as the experts so that when you graduate this program you know everything that we know and then you can go away and make your choices. Not for us to hector you or nanny you or tell you what to do. But once you know how you work, then it's far more instinctive and far easier to say, no, I kind of get why that food doesn't work for me. Or I get why if I stay up till 2 a.m., I'm in this kind of hormone storm of weight gain the next day.

I understand that. So I'm motivated to kind of go to bed on time. And that I think is where the magic is. Oh, Saira, I feel like we need to get you back on just to talk about the whole programme. I think we all need to understand what the programme is. Before I let you go, Rhiannon, though, I just want to ask you,

we are discussing menopause on the show a little bit later and our bodies change as we know. I'd like to know from you what people say to you and the nutrition advice you give to women when they come to you discussing the menopause. Oh, absolutely. And it's something that, again, hallelujah, everyone's talking about the menopause. You know, half the population are going to actually go through it. And I love what Saira was saying as well, because it's so nutrition is one piece of the puzzle.

You know, this is a whole picture here. We're talking about psychology. We're talking about your individual differences and with menopause so there's some interesting research that I can give you from from the book that I've just written the science nutrition or we can read the book this one's quite a good nugget for you for all your listeners um a take-home message in America they call hot flushes hot flashes um, so I found that quite interesting. I was reading, oh, hot flashes. Oh, of course, hot flushes. So apparently, if you have two servings of soy a day,

this is quite strong research that we have now. It can reduce the impact fully and the effects of hot flushes, which is useful. But of course, women need to be aware of their nutrition, their bone density. They don't have the estrogen protecting their bones. We need a lot of leafy greens and folate there's a lot of nutrition elements i think calcium oily fish if you're getting that in your diet amigas soy is good there's a lot of myths about it on the internet and back to the diet thing your body

will change allow it to just it will it will It will change. That's naturally what's meant to happen as an age. Right. Thank you so much for talking to me, Dr. Sarah and Rhiannon. Thank you very much. 84844 is the number to text. Talking about changing not just your body, but possibly transforming your life. Boxing.

Boxing apparently can do just that. It's the subject of Idris Elba's Fight School which is currently on BBC2 he's recruited a group of 8 young men and women to give them an intensive course of boxing training over 5 months with the goal to compete in the ring in an amateur fight

well Chanika is one of the young women taking part and Rachel Bauer is one of the boxing coaches on the show, she's an amateur coach England talent pathway coach and a metropolitan police sergeant and I definitely wouldn't mess with her welcome to woman's hour both of you um I watched quite a bit of this and I have to say it is incredible it's so full of heart uh Chanika let me come to you first. What made you want to take part in this programme? I'd say I was at home for a bit. I'd actually suffered a bereavement of my son and I was just at home, a bit depressed, just putting on some weight, not doing much. And I just decided that

I had to make a change. And I wanted to do something to lose some weight and get back to my old self again. So I was looking online for something to do that was cost effective and it would give me some training and I could get back to working out. And I stumbled across the application. They didn't mention Idris at all. So that was like a really big shock. And yeah, that's how I kind of got involved. Idris picked me for some reason.

And it's just been up and up ever since. That's really, that's an interesting detail that they didn't put his name in the application. I think they probably would have got lots and lots and lots of people applying. It is an incredible watch, like I said, and we see all of you involved go through so much but your story is really interesting because you're not in the program at the beginning you actually get selected halfway through because you were really sick with COVID

yeah I got COVID really bad I actually got COVID-19 pneumonia and with a special gastro situation as well so I wasn't able to keep down any food um I was in intensive care it was really touch and go didn't even know if I would make it out it's quite scary in there but um yeah the doctors are amazing at Barnett Hospital and uh for some reason I just started getting better um and I had a really good physio team and and they helped me get better and I'm here today able to tell this story so yeah great remarkable absolutely remarkable had you ever boxed before oh never how was your fitness levels when you started obviously just come out of well you've just come out of having covid so you're at your so when I left the hospital I couldn't even walk I was in a wheelchair so if I could say my fitness levels were like minus 50 we'll put it there um I hadn't been

working out like I said I've been quite depressed at home so I hadn't been doing everything anything at all so literally from couch to the ring um and it was a very intense process as well so it was difficult Rachel you're one of the coaches on the show as I've said now when you watch it the first five minutes I thought no way no way are they going to train absolute people have never done any never mind boxing any exercise ever to get into the ring but it's unbelievable the transformation that they go through yeah we definitely had our work cut out but the guys put the work in and we managed to get some of them over the line and it was a really rewarding process

for the coaches as well as the boxers. How did you get into boxing? I got into boxing because I was bored. I joined the police and worked shifts and had time off in the week, nothing to do. And I decided to take up a hobby and someone told me about a competition called the Leffone Cup,

which is a really old, well-known tournament within the Met Police. Told everyone that I was going to enter. So then you had to? Then I had to, yeah. Unfortunately, back then, because we're talking about 14 years ago, there weren't many women competing, so I had a straight final, which, funnily enough, was at the the York Hall where the finale of this show is I turned up for my weigh in

and my opponent turned up with a cast on her arm which meant that she was injured I didn't get to box so my first ever bout was as the default Met champion against the RAF I mean that if you're ever going to win a boxing that's my way of winning I just couldn't didn't even have to fight.

And you get the job. That's brilliant. What is it? What would you say? What is it about this programme? So the premise of the show is that you've got young people from all sorts of backgrounds who maybe have been in a bit of trouble,

who've kind of found it hard to settle. And the premise is that they go through this to give them something more. What is it that you can get from boxing other than getting fit and being able to throw a hard punch there's so much more to boxing the physical stuff you really have to commit to it and it does have to become your life but i think once you do that you realize how much you can achieve in life um there's various barriers and problems that you'll encounter and you learn to

deal with them and you learn a lot about yourself and i think that is what gets a lot of people hooked and janika your story you know we we see that you've come out of intensive care but also we we learn that actually for you to to receive a punch to actually be in that scenario is really difficult and very triggering because you'd come out of a really violent relationship hadn't you? Yeah so I'd like to say I'm a survivor of domestic violence and obviously boxing is complete opposite of that because you have to stand in a ring and and be able to take a punch and I quite I wasn't quite able to do that. You'll see further along in the show, I'm quite apologetic when I hit my opponents, which you definitely can't do in boxing.

So it was a double struggle for me, equally because I'm slightly overweight. Most female boxers box at 81 kilograms. I'm over that. So you kind of are aware of your size at the time. And also, I'm in an environment where people are not turning away they're there to fight and they're there to win and they're not gonna let you off so you have to find a deeper inner strength um but the coaches are amazing and Rachel was really supportive and I was able to get past that I'm really proud how did it help you because when I watched you I was we were so with you I was in tears actually when I was able to get past that. I'm really proud. How did it help you? Because when I watched you, we were so with you.

I was in tears, actually, when I was listening to your story on the show. It affected, I mean, it would affect anybody watching. So how did you overcome it? What was it about the boxing? What is it about the training? I think boxing, like Rachel said, is not just a physical element to it. It's the mental as well. There's so much that you have to dig deep and say do I want this and and why am I doing it and I had deeper reasons I'd promised my son um when he

passed away that I was going to make him proud and that's just what kept me going the environment was tough you're in a house with eight people um it's a new skill that you're learning a very tough skill um but it's literally that inner strength and and saying to yourself that I can do this and I want change I realized quite early on that if I wanted something different I had to be the one to go for it um so literally that's what kept pushing me and was just that I wanted to take a new path and the only person that was going to help me was myself yeah Rachel you know you're how did you deal with that you know you're talking to real life this isn't it's a tv show that we're watching but also every person involved has come from quite

difficult circumstances which means that you have a real you're in a real position of responsibility. You are but as an amateur coach you are and you've got a real duty of care towards your boxers. And Shanika and I had quite a candid chat and I was quite honest with her. I asked her, is this actually for you? Do you want to do this? Because boxing isn't for anyone, everyone, competitive boxing. But she convinced me that it was something that she wanted to do

and then she showed me that she could do it. But everyone who came into the house and the young people and the kids that every amateur coach has in their gyms they all have stories they all have backgrounds and you just need to make sure that you're acutely aware of those so you can help these young people and also mistrust of the police and here you are training them yeah um one of the funniest moments didn't actually make it on camera where Jess, for some reason, had no idea, even though this was introduced to everybody quite early on. Everyone knew. actually very overweight and actually very movingly she talks about coming back to the diet uh just to bring people up to speed on who jess is the diet conversation for her it's not about losing weight she says and i again really movingly says i just want to be able to like what i see in the mirror which says it all um she's amazing she is amazing you're amazing too though there's a lot you're all amazing but yes what did jess Jess say? I won't repeat what she said, but it wasn't very nice about the police

and them all being something. All the boxers around going, but they're not all that bad, are they, Jess? And she's like, yes, hate them all. And everyone's giggling. And it took her about five minutes to twig. No way. Yes.

She's like, but you're all right. You're nice. She likes Rachel. So you've won her over. But that's nice. And I've done a lot of work with projects in the past through the police and organisations like the Princess Trust. And it's all about this.

It's just about breaking down barriers. Yeah. I mean, we do. We hear a lot about and we talk about it a lot on this programme. Culture within the police, within the Met, the culture of misogyny. And Rachel, as a female police officer, you know, how has, I suppose, the boxing helped you deal with any of that that you may or may not have encountered? I don't know what your experience is.

I think I've been quite lucky because I've not experienced it at work. But I don't know if part of the reason for that is because boxing has given me the confidence and I know that I would challenge things. And I think people know that I would challenge things as well um I am proud of being a police officer um I know we don't get it right all the time um but I hope this show shows that there are good eggs and there's a lot of good work going in across communities across London and the UK well Well, it is a really, really powerful programme. Has it changed your life, Chanika? Yeah, like without a doubt, my confidence has gone from second to none.

I'm able to take a punch of a smile instead of cowering. I've got a new flight school family. I've been open to amazing opportunities like being here today, just little old me on Women's Hour I've even started my own Women Empowerment Workshops that I do with a charity inside Success UK so it's just really changed my whole

outlook on life and I'm just excited for the future Amazing, well you're not just a survivor you're also a fighter so lovely to talk to you both and it is a highly recommended. Idris Elba's Fight School is on Sundays at 9 p.m. on BBC Two. And you can stream the whole series on iPlayer.

Rachel and Shanika, thank you very much. And Tara emailed in to say, boxing has transformed my life both physically and mentally. I'm the fittest I've ever been. And it's given me a focus and confidence I didn't anticipate. Lots of you getting in touch about menopause, which is what we're going to go on to talk about now. Anonymous says, for balance, my period stopped at 57.

I'm almost 59. I got very hot at night, but it doesn't bother me. I need lubricants for sex, but just get on with it. It has not been a problem at all. Someone else says, working as a TA in a classroom, hot flushes were terrible. One little boy asking me, why have you got water all over your face, Mrs. Rolls?

84844 is what we're talking about now. When it comes to getting hold of hormone replacement therapy, ministers have been again been accused of betraying millions of menopausal women by failing to improve access to HRT. In October, ministers announced a menopause revolution, but the promise to cut the cost of HRT doesn't come into effect until next April. And now tens of thousands of women are suffering because of a nationwide shortage of HRT. But what is the impact of not being able to get hold of your gel or patch?

To discuss this, I'm joined by Dr. Nigit Arif, who is an NHS GP with a specialist interest in women's health. And Kate Muir is the author of Everything You Need to Know About the Menopause. And she's producing a documentary with the presenter Davina McCall called Davina McCall's Sex, Mind and the Menopause, which will be out on the 2nd of May. Welcome to Women's Hour, both of you. Nigit, I'll come to you first. What's your experience, your firsthand experience of shortages in your practice? What's going on well only yesterday I posted a video of the fact that we've been struggling to get supply of oestrogel which

is the one that a lot of women my patients I've put them on because it's a body identical oestrogen only HRT and compared to some other ones there's the risk profile is so much safer and I give it to not just women who are in their 50s and 60s but I give it to women who've gone through primary ovarian insufficiency so young women whose ovaries aren't producing the hormone oestrogen enough I also give it to women who've gone through surgical menopause so they've had surgery to have their ovaries or their womb removed and then they need a replacement of their hormones back to them and these women are on stable doses they need their oestrogen

because it is basically a lifeline for them. It protects them for so many other conditions, but also stops their symptoms in its tracks because they're getting their hormones back to them. And now what I'm having is that they're not able to get a supply of their oestrogel. I am giving equivalents. So there is Sandrina, there's also a Lenzetto, which is a spray, and there are patches. The problem that we have with alternatives is they're slightly different and they might not be suitable for that individual. And they need to be workload that it's creating in general practice at the moment when we're already drowning. And also the workload that creates my pharmacist.

And then on top of that, the anxiety and the frustration that it's causing my patients. How about you, Kate? Are you struggling to get hold of your HRT? Actually, I can't get it at all in London. I can't get the gel or the spray, either kind of gel at my local pharmacy. I'm hoping that there'll be something in two weeks. But I have been talking to women around the country and talking to them on Instagram as well. They are going cold turkey. Basically, there are women not getting this. And it is a hit that suddenly after five years, they've got their heart flushes back. And I was talking the other day to a woman who gets heart palpitations all the time,

unless she's on her HRT and the estrogen stabilizes her heart palpitations. And, you know, a large percentage of women get heart palpitations in menopause. And everybody talks about the hot flushes. But actually, there's a huge mental health issue here for women as well. There's the fear of this being taken away. There's the sneaking around to try and get it from other people in car parks. And quite frankly, this is not a luxury. It's been treated by the government as a luxury.

And it is a lifesaver. This is not about lifestyle. This is a lifesaver for many women, including me. I had huge problems until I was on HRT. And I know many, many thousands of women who feel exactly the same as Dr. Nigat. And lots of them getting in touch with the program this morning. In fact, Bette has just messaged in to say exactly what you're just saying, Kate. I feel there's a perception by some that HRT is a luxury drug.

Unlike other drugs, many have to take it on a daily basis. The thought that it's no big deal if you don't take it is so very wrong. The shortages are no biggie. Women take and need it for a very good reason. Nigga, what's causing it? Is it purely demand? Because over the last five years, the number of monthly prescriptions of the therapy has risen eightfold

as more and more women are talking about it, as we now feel like we just want to go and take it. Is that what's causing it? Or is it something else? Well, Breton, the supplier who make the oestrogel and also the British Menopause Society do say that the demand is outstripping the supply. This isn't the first time, Anita.

We've had issues with patches, although now Theramax, who produce the patches, have made a real commitment to making sure that the supply is there. And yes, the demand is there, but that's good news because we've done so much awareness. Women's Hour talk about menopause so much.

We've had Kate Mule with Davina McCall's documentary, you know, Sex, Lies and the Menopause. We had the BBC Breakfast do Wake Up to the Menopause we had the bbc breakfast do wake up to the menopause workplace pledgements are going on with the bbc royal mail and coca-cola because of well-being or women are getting involved and making sure that this is standpoint going back to what kate was saying earlier which is so significant and we can't under put undermine this the mental health impact is huge if women some women who aren't given the HRT, do you know the one in four feel suicidal? And that is a fact.

I've seen that come through my doors as an NHS GP in my practice. Women leave their relationships, their workplace, their employment. They earn less because they're more likely to leave the workplace or because of their ability to get hold of their hormones.

And the problem is, is that it's always packaged as a luxury or it's a choice. Women who have surgical menopause, primary ovarian insufficiency, PMDD, who've gone through chemical menopause, this is literally not a luxury. They need it, just like you would have patients who need their thyroxine or patients who need their insulin and other hormones that we prescribe. And we just don't see the lack of supply in those conditions but time and time again when we see it we do see it with women's health products. And again I'm just going to come back to some of these messages I think it's really important to hear what our listeners have to say 84844

is the number to text by the way. Just to support what you're saying Nigga as Rosalind says HRT was a lifesaver for me. I was 43 when the menopause started. I had four young children and felt that I would have lost my sanity if my kindly GP hadn't diagnosed the condition and prescribed HRT. I was on it for 17 years. Brilliant. But then Carol says, at 39, I informed my doctor that the menopause was starting. Hot flushes at 40 drove me back to ask for HRT he concentrated on distracting me with a separate health issue for two years uh flushing and dripping every 10 minutes showering three times daily and smelly I pleaded again he told me he didn't believe in HRT

Kate do you want to take that because you've done so much around yes I think it's just really hard that uh the the oh certainly usually the older generation of doctors have not been educated and have old fashioned, outdated scientific information in their education about HRT. What we now know, and Nigat has already said, is that body identical HRT has a much, much safer health profile than the old stuff. And women have realised that. And you have woken, I think, Nigat and all these doctors have woken this sleeping army of women who really, really need HRT to function. And we are not retiring at 60. We're retiring at 67.

We've got to work through our menopause. And, you know, there are 4.5 million women in Britain. We are working. We are the backbone of the workforce. You think about the key workers, 50% of nurses are over 50. A third in an RCN survey are thinking about leaving their jobs. Who on earth more do we want to look after and provide the best help we can give and you can't sit in front of a little fan if you're in a hospital and worry about your hot flushes and take some time off you work 12

hour shifts so we have to get hrt and there is one solution which is we could have a national formulary which would help every bit of the country to get the same kind of hrt which we do not and there is also, as these gels that I can't get and everyone can't get are running out, there is a new body identical pill, which has just been issued. And it's only available in two areas of Britain. And it's called BiJuve. Now, there are large supplies of that pill available. It's one of the safer options, but we're not allowed to get it. The government could fix that in five minutes. I just want to take up on that. Yeah, sorry, go on. Sorry, I just want to

take up on that because by juve, actually, I can't get hold of it in my CCG. And it's literally just because of a cost issue. And as Kate was saying, that this is something that we're seeing time and time again, when it comes to women's HRT, We are stumbling over cost when it's a simple thing that the government could fix. The other issue is that body-identical HRTs, the risk profile with the data that they've done on older synthetic oral types is so different. So the oestrogel, bijuve, any of those body-identical HRTs,

taken below the age of 60, your risk of clots is not there. So women who've had clots and DVTs can safely take it. Your risk of breast cancer, if you're taking estrogen only body identical HRT below the age of 60, doesn't increase at all. And deaths from breast cancer doesn't increase. Remember, we've also got vaginal topical estrogens as well, which also do not increase your risk of breast cancer. So all the myths that we had around hrt actually we know that the formulation has changed a little bit and the benefits of having hrt far outweigh the risk so decreases your risk of heart disease decreases your risk of dementia decreases risk of osteoporosis i mean i could go on and that's what we need to be i feel like we and i'm sure we will at some

point do a proper full-on one hour special about this because the amount of questions we've got coming in, the amount of experiences that people are sharing, lots of questions about, you know, is it inevitable that people will have difficult menopause? Are there alternatives to HRT of which, Nigga, just before we leave this, I just want you to answer that. So every woman will go through the transition. It's a natural transition, but the effects and the symptoms will vary from woman to woman. And HRT, if a woman decides that her symptoms are overriding everything and she wants to take it, then that should be an available choice to her. For some women who can't take estrogen and progesterone, there are alternatives as well. So if you're having flushes, there's clonidine, there's gabapentin. I sometimes prescribe antidepressants such as ssris they're also lifestyle so yoga and acupuncture brilliant

amount of evidence-based medicine around that in order to help relieve some of the symptoms and maybe boxing kate i don't know yeah um like i said it's there's so much that we can talk about um and especially all the mental aspects of it as well. You mentioned that one in four shocking figure of women that talk to you as suicidal, but I'm sure we will be, we definitely will be coming back to this. Kate,

please come and talk to us again more in depth. And Nigga, thank you very much for both of you speaking to me this morning. Lots of you getting through on the texts. I'm sorry if I don't get to your texts today, there's so many, but I will read out as many as I can. Someone says here, menopause is a natural part of life.

You will probably have an easier ride if you're fit, healthy and active. But now, what's it like being a woman in China today? The country has been rocked by several high profile Me Too cases. The sowing of the birth rate in the country has led to a push to get more women to have children. And earlier this month, the Communist Youth League of China, an official government organisation, published an article about young people who are making positive contributions to modern China and only highlighted men. When women spoke out about this, they were called extreme feminists and malignant tumours of our society by the youth organisation. To give us an insight into all of this, Kerry Allen is joining me, who keeps a close eye on Chinese media for the BBC. And she joins us now. Very good morning, Kerry.

So tell us about this latest development. Why were women purposely left off this list? What's happening? I don't know that they were purposely left off, but the Communist Youth League, it's a youth movement that's run by the government. They have, what they did was they posted a social media post back in early April that showed six images about what they said were the most famous moments in history under the Communist Party. So they included previous army, you know, things in the army. They also included floods. They also looked at COVID-19. And all of these pictures showed heroic

men. And I don't know that they expected the backlash that they got on social media, but it came thick and fast. This is a big platform on Sina Weibo. It's got millions of followers with people saying, yeah, there are no women in this. And, yeah, it really led to a social media storm. There were lots of women who use this term, which is straight man cancer and saying that there's in social media, in China and media in general, there's this attitude that women are left out and that men make all the efforts. And obviously there are millions of women, as many as there are millions of men in Chinese society. So the idea that they've not made any contributions got a lot of backlash online. So what does this, well, it's good to hear about the backlash, but what does this show us about the attitude towards women more broadly in China?

Is it reflective of wider views or is it just this one hardline group and actually there's a big shift happening? It's not at all this one group. I mean, the fact that they came back with a comment of extreme feminism being a malignant tumour on the internet just shows that they felt they could do that. I mean, there have also been on social media terms that have been coming in backlash to women speaking out and saying that they feel suppressed and ignored. So this term nutrient I, which is feminist cancer, has become very, very popular. I'm seeing a way back from men online posting in backlash to comments with women getting their comments out. Let's look at the one child policy that ended only in 2015 in China. It had been introduced to limit the

overpopulation, but now the opposite's happened. The birth rate's fallen. So what impact has this had on women? This has had a huge impact. It's very much been the case in recent years that women have been saying that they've got other priorities nowadays, that they want to further their education or they want to go into employment, that people have a lot more spending power, they're spending more time, particularly because they're working from home as well and they're studying from home. A lot of women are actually doing better than men in some capacities. So yeah, they're looking to further themselves. But also you've had another hangover from the one child policy is that you've had that nowadays the labor market is shrinking.

So women, as much as men, are working longer hours. And they've also got to face a future where they're potentially the sole carers for their mother and their father. And what you have got at the moment is a lot of government messaging that the birth rate needs to be promoted, that women should be having more children. And that's created a lot of concern from Chinese women that they're being forced back into traditional roles. So you get a lot of anger on social media platforms like Sina Weibo, China's version of Facebook or Twitter from people saying, we don't want to get married. We don't want to start having as many children as possible.

We've got other priorities in our lives. Let's look at the Me Too movement as well, because this has had huge ripples in China. We've covered the cases of Peng Shui, the Chinese tennis star on the programme before. So what's the status of her case and others who have made allegations? Well, there's been absolutely nothing that's come out on her previously, and her name is actually censored on Sina Weibo. So if people want to comment about her, ask how she's doing, their posts quickly get taken down. The claim, I mean, she said on Sina Weibo back in November that she was forced to have sexual relations with

a very senior Communist Party official, former Communist Party official called Zhang Gaoli. He's not commented publicly, but in Chinese social media and Chinese media generally, you don't have officials with social media accounts. So it's quite common in the UK, for example, for politicians to have Twitter accounts or Facebook accounts. You don't have that in China. So he's not spoken about it. But the fact there's so much censorship very much says that nobody is allowed to speak about it. And that there has been concern because when the Me Too movement took off in the US, it also took off in China. And there were a lot of, it wasn't just Peng Shui who made claims, there were other people who made very high profile claims against men in society in China, very senior figures. And they

felt that their voices were ignored. And a lot of these cases have resulted in nothing. People have tried to prosecute, take people to court, and they've just found that it's almost been a lost cause, that you have to almost covertly record yourself in order to actually get any form of action. And so what are Chinese women saying about all of this amongst themselves? Are you party to those conversations? Yeah, there are definitely these large conversations. I mean, the one that women don't want to get married and don't want to do what the government tells them to do, to start having children. These come up all the time. You'll often see a lot of backlash to this.

So this is a conversation that's repeatedly happening. But one thing you have to consider about China is that a lot of senior people, people in prominent positions are men. In the government, most of the most senior officials are men. Also just in regular life, in offices, in different sectors of industry, a lot of those senior roles are men. So a lot of women feel that they're not being properly represented. But one thing I should mention is that, yeah, going back to this whole, these images that caused a stir about Chinese women not making an impact in society. One of these focused on frontline workers line during the Wuhan outbreak, the original outbreak, were women, 90% nurses, 50% doctors. So the idea that their contribution during one of the most important times that we've had in society in recent years has been ignored, that created a lot of anger. And you do, you get a lot of women igniting online to say, we are being ignored.

And so what will come of it, do you think? Is this a flashpoint? Are we going to see more and more of this? Are women going to take to the streets? Just how serious is it getting? And is feminism seen as so controversial in China? Is it creating a stir? It is seen as controversial.

There have been arrests in previous years. I mean, thinking back to domestic violence and before the laws were introduced in China back in 2015-16, there were women who were taken to the streets, activists in wedding gowns with blood on them, and they got arrested. There were other women who were staging protests and they got arrested. So the idea that, well, just generally in China, that anybody goes out into the street and protests, this is seen as dissent in Chinese society. So there is always this risk. But at the same time, because the government wants women to cooperate on having children, their voices can't be ignored. So there's going to have to be a tipping point at some point. But it does look that nothing at institutional level is changing.

It needs to be women at the top who start making the difference. All right. Thank you very much for speaking to us about that this morning. level is changing it needs to be women at the top who start making the difference all right um thank you very much for speaking to us about that this morning uh kerry allen um there now just um lots of you getting in touch about uh hrt and menopause josie has said i finally went to my gp to ask for hrt after struggling with menopausal anxiety flushes insomnia zero libido etc for eight years she told me that they don't usually start hit after so long but offered me antidepressants instead perhaps because i wept over her what you're supposed to do when faced with this response um so many questions and so many of you uh sharing your

thoughts which i really appreciate 84844 is the number to text just to say that the nhs website says recent evidence says that the risks of hrt are small and are usually outweighed by the benefits. The risks are usually very small and depend on the type of HRT you take, how long you take it and your own health risks. So speak to your GP if you're thinking about starting HRT or you're already taking it and you're worried about any risks.

But now, the indie rock band Wet Leg have taken the world by storm after their debut album went straight to number one last week. The album, also called Wet Leg, features witty songs about love, sex, parties and breakups and is the brainchild of Rhian Teasdale and Hester Chambers. And here's a clip of the track Your Mum to give you a flavour of the new album. And I am delighted to say I'm joined live with Rhiannon from Wetleg. Hey, Rhiannon, how are you doing? Hi.

Nice to see you. I have to say you've set up a band with your best mate. And before you know it, your album is number one and you're touring. This is my teenage dream. You're living it. Yeah, it's pretty wild, huh? Tell us a bit about the album, first of all. What can our listeners expect?

There's a few songs post-heartbreak. There's some really silly moments, I suppose. Yeah, listen that. That's why I like it so much. I mean, and it's great music. The lyrics, that song that we just played a clip of, Your Mum, explain how dry and pretty brutal the lyrics can be. One of my favourite lines, which says, when I think about what you've become, I feel sorry for your mum. I know, cutting. So to the point though, I say you're living my teenage dream. Let's take it back a little bit and talk about when you first set up Wet Leg. Was it 2019?

Yeah, yeah. That was, yeah, we'd just finished doing a run of festivals together in like our other friends' bands or with other projects. And we kind of like were about to put a lid on it and be like that's music for us we've done it now we're like we're grown-up women we can't be doing this anymore and then we were just like oh well why don't we just do it as well as doing our jobs and as well as yeah all these other commitments that we have in life let's just do this as like a hobby and yeah and that's when we started wet leg and then lockdown happens

yeah and what a gift was that a gift for you yeah it was just to have all that time space and yeah I'm living in London now but I spent the lockdown I spent it back on the island and yeah it was just like the longest school holiday. Yeah there were worse places I suppose to spend it than the Isle of Wight and with your best mate writing music. Yeah. And the whole album was created in that time? No, there was a lot of writing that we were able to do during that time. But it was during the first lockdown that we made the Shays Long video. We also made another music video for a song called Angelica. And we made a few more demos and were able to find our management

and record label in that time. This is amazing. It's remarkable. I said you're living my dream, a lot of people's dream, I suppose. find our management and and record label in that time this is amazing it's remarkable how do you know I said you know you're living my dream a lot of people's dream I suppose if that's what you dream about um and your album's at number one I know we can't believe it we're yeah it's really hard to process it's so weird and in such a short space of time, in less than a year of releasing music, it's all happened so quickly for you. And I read somewhere that you basically set up the band

so that you could get into music festivals for free. Yeah. It worked. It worked. We're going to festivals. Humour is such a big part of your lyrics and what you do isn't it yeah oh gosh i'm so sorry i'm sorry uh rianne's just dashed off because her phone is pinging but such is the life of a uh someone who has a number one album is it is it someone is it your mom saying i'm listening to

you on woman's hour because that often happens when I'm working. Is she genuine? Was it genuinely your mum? No, it wasn't my mum. I would love it if it was. She knows that I'm doing this. She's listening now, so she wouldn't call. Of course she is. So what do your families think about all of this success? Yeah, my mum's really proud and so kind of shocked because music is not really her thing she's very much from a nautical background so she's she's really excited well I wasn't expecting to say that a nautical background yeah well tell us what you tell us a bit about mum um she was one of the first women to go to sea like in the merchant navy um she was an officer

of deck um and then yeah and then recently she's just retired from teaching she was teaching celestial navigation so your mum sounds pretty amazing what's mum's name jill karnick jill jill we'll have to get jill on to talk about going to sea being one of the first women. But back to you creating music with your best mate. As it is Woman's Hour, let's talk about just the importance of that friendship and what that experience is like. Yeah. I mean, we are pretty quiet people.

We're quite softly spoken. And so it's funny, like having Hester and her having me, we're kind of like always encouraging each other to take up space. And that's kind of the whole point of the band. Like we were, when we incepted it, we were we were kind of like okay we don't really know what we want to make but we know that we want to play guitar like really loud distorted guitar and that was kind of about it really um but yeah it's and now everything is moving so quickly it's just yeah it's so invaluable that friendship and I've I'm sure absolutely invaluable and um back on the

phone mum's saying stop talking about me on the radio I don't understand it's on flight mode it's all right don't worry um and then you are gonna be on tour very soon aren't you you are playing all the festivals so how do you as two very quiet introverted women do you kind of step into another persona then when you're on stage yeah because I saw you on Jimmy Fallon rocking it yeah you just kind of yeah it's amazing what you are capable of without even realizing it and you say you've said in another interview that even though you're in your late 20s, you were worried that maybe you were a bit too old

to be starting out a career in music. Why did you feel that way? There's just this whole obsession with youth in the music industry and particularly with women as well there's definitely a pressure there not one that I've felt being put on me by anyone that we've that we're working with but just one that has been programmed into me from like a very early age so yeah I think me and Hester kind of went in a bit like apologetic that we were women in our late 20s and not our early 20s. But, yeah, no, we work with the people that we work with just kind of said that's so ridiculous.

Why would you why would you think that? Well, I'm sure not everyone's that lucky. Yeah. And well, the feeling comes from somewhere, doesn't it? You know know the perception that you have to be super young to start out in anything and by the way you are young still where does the name wet leg come from um yeah it was just it was a there were a few names flying around um a wet leg is is what you call someone who's not from the Isle of Wight, an ovener, because you have to get your legs wet to come to the island. I see. OK, that's what it means.

Yeah. And also it's just out of context. It's such a ridiculous band name. It's just like a reminder to not take yourself too seriously, I suppose. And it sounds like you are having a lot of fun at the moment. Excellent. Well, I want to say huge congratulations. I loved the single when I first heard Shae's song because it's one of those stop moments where you find yourself tuning into the radio. So catchy. Also, never mind me, Dave Grohl loved it. Yeah. I mean, how wild is that?

Yeah, to hear Wet Leg come out of that man's mouth was just so surreal. I have enjoyed talking to you, Rhiannon. You can get back to your phone now. I'm so sorry about that. It's all right. You'll go down in Woman's Hour history. But you know what? You rock and roll babe, do it

and we're going to play out on another one in fact we're going to play out on Shays Long just because it is such a brilliant tune that's all from me, have a lovely weekend Rhian, thank you very much and thanks for joining us on Woman's Hour, have a great weekend that's all for today's woman's hour join us again next time hello this is jane garvey with some good news life changing is back and i can honestly tell you that we have found some really remarkable individuals for this series. People have lived through extraordinary life changing moments. Now here's just a quick taster of what's in store for you. And I thought, thank goodness. We've got the starboard railings in the water, we're rolling around, and we're sinking. So he said, what is your position?

So I said, we're about halfway between the port of East London and Durban. No, what are your coordinates, he says. So I said, well, I don't know what the coordinates are. And I could hear sort of, what rank are you? So I said, well, I'm not a ranker, I'm a guitarist. And he said, what are you? So I'm saying, well, I'm not a rank, I'm a guitarist. And he said, what are you doing on the bridge? So I said, well, there's nobody else here. You might need a strong brew and some steady nerves for that one. It's quite a story.

Honestly, I've been blown away by what so-called ordinary human beings are capable of. Don't miss this series of Life Changing. These stories and these people are definitely going to improve your day. Join us if you can. Subscribe now to Life Changing on BBC Sounds. I'm Sarah Treleaven and for over a year I've been working on one of the most complex stories I've ever covered. There was somebody out there who's faking pregnancies. I started like warning everybody. Every doula've ever covered. There was somebody out there who's faking pregnancies. I started like warning everybody. Every doula that I know. It was fake.

No pregnancy. And the deeper I dig, the more questions I unearth. How long has she been doing this? What does she have to gain from this? From CBC and the BBC World Service, The Con, Caitlin's Baby. It's a long story, settle in. Available now.