Woman's Hour - Winner of The Great British Sewing Bee

Episode Date: April 3, 2019

Origami outfits, upcycled upholstery and canine coats have kept viewers of the Great British Sewing Bee captivated for the last eight weeks on BBC2. Jenni speaks to the series 5 winner who was announced last night. What makes the adolescent brain different and why is it that an easy child can become a challenging teenager? Jenni talks about risky behaviour and how to limit it with the neuroscientist Professor Sarah-Jayne Blakemore.Soprano Carolyn Sampson’s latest album shows the various way composers have contemplated the madwoman. On her new album ‘Reason in madness’, tragic characters like Ophelia, Gretchen and Bilitis are explored through multiple versions by composers including Brahms, Strauss, Saint-Saëns, Poulenc and Schumann. Carolyn Sampson joins Jenni to discuss musical responses to the theme of women and madness.Women from all over the globe go to the Commission on the Status of Women (CSW) at the UN in New York every year. It's the intergovernmental body exclusively dedicated to the promotion of gender equality and the empowerment of women .This year our reporter Ena Miller joined the delegates to hear their stories and why they are determined to be part of the conversation.Presenter: Jenni Murray Producer: Caroline Donne Interviewed guest: Interviewed guest: Professor Sarah-Jayne Blakemore Interviewed guest: Carolyn Sampson Reporter: Ena Miller

This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK. I'm Natalia Melman-Petrozzella, and from the BBC, this is Extreme Peak Danger. The most beautiful mountain in the world. If you die on the mountain, you stay on the mountain. This is the story of what happened when 11 climbers died on one of the world's deadliest mountains, K2, and of the risks we'll take to feel truly alive. If I tell all the details, you won't believe it anymore. Extreme. Peak danger. Listen wherever you get your podcasts.

BBC Sounds. Music, radio, podcasts. Hello, Jenny Murray welcoming you to Wednesday's edition of Woman's Hour. I'm sorry, but we're not able to podcast live that lovely music element of today's programme because of copyright. But you can, of course, always listen again through the website. Now, there is a moment in a child's life when he or she changes from being sweet and compliant to stroppy, disobedient and not very nice at all. We discuss the secret life of the teenage brain. The music of the soprano Carolyn Sampson.

Her album is called Reason in Madness and explores tragic female characters such as Ophelia through the work of a number of different composers. And the third in our series of visits to the UN's 63rd Commission on the status of women. We hear from men and women who've chosen to attend. What concerns do they have? For the past eight weeks, Tuesday nights on BBC Two have been occupied by the surprise hit series, The Great British Sewing Bee.

And last night was the final episode. So far, the contestants have been asked to make a garment using the techniques of origami, recycle fabrics such as curtains and make them into frocks, and make a waterproof tent into a raincoat for a dog. Well, last night it was evening wear and the result. And the winner is, close your ears if you haven't watched it yet, Juliette Uzo. It's really surreal, right?

So, so unbelievable. I never win anything. I've never won anything ever. I've had to fight for a lot of things and, like, really, really work hard. And I can't believe it. Julia, congratulations. That was really quite an emotional response.

It hasn't brought you back to tears, has it? It's brought me back to tears now. Well, calm down. You'll be fine. Now, it was filmed in August last year. Yeah. How did you manage to keep it all a secret for such a long time? It was absolute torture. It was completely... It was really hard.

Really, really hard. I had to not say anything not tell people what i'd been doing in the summer um make up a lot of stories just close family my immediate family knew about it and a few friends and then they had to make sure they didn't spill anything to anyone so yeah it was hard now you made which we saw last night a beautiful red evening gown for your cousin what did you most enjoy making during the whole series um during the entire series i really to be honest i really enjoyed making my first ever garment no made to measure garment the jumpsuit that I created um for my model and um I the reason why I enjoyed it was because um it it was the very first garment of the week that I won and um it gave me that boost of confidence you know think actually you can sew you've got this

so at first I came onto the show thinking yeah let's just wing the first two weeks and see how it goes but that made me feel like actually you can sew you've got a chance at doing this properly and um yeah I mean it's more than just sewing you were designing and making to measure as you said How difficult was it to just wing that? It was really difficult. We'd never seen our models or we got our measurements. So, you know, having to create a pattern for someone we'd never seen. You know, you have to see a person's body shape to know whether the design would fit them or suit their body shape. And, yeah, it was very challenging but um somehow we got through it now you've only been sewing for five years yes what

was it that prompted you to go into a shop and buy a sewing machine um i must say um watching the sewing bee kind of ignited that fire but um i did I visited Nigeria um in 2013 and I had something made for me a dress made for me by a lady and you know I was just so curious watching her she was very she was heavily pregnant in that heat just sewing away you know the love of it's just gone with it and that so it made me you know curious and I I'm going to have a go at this thing. I'll have a go. So I went into the shops and bought myself a sewing machine and had to figure it all out by myself

by watching a DVD that came along with the machine, pausing, rewinding, fast-forwarding, and just having a go. But that first thing that you made, did you make that from a pattern? Yes. Or did you design it i made it you mean on the show or no those years ago all those years ago yeah all those five years ago um no it was a pattern i downloaded online a free pattern and um i put it all together

cut it out and made it into a dress and i still have that dress at home what does it look like it's awful well it was i wore it it had a zip it didn't have sleeves sleeveless dress um he had darts just the basic shift dress yeah um yeah it wasn't it didn't look good and then you go on to a show where you have to make a raincoat for a dachshund. How easy was that? At first, you know, I thought, OK, I didn't do very well with the transformation challenges on the show. So I thought, OK, we're going to be sewing something for a dog. I haven't got a clue what I'm doing. So I thought, let's just put something together, make it a bit fancy and make sure it's actually um it makes sense like it makes you just make sure it's um practical and fits the dog yeah and practical as well but um it was it was difficult but somehow

we got through and I came second in that challenge which was quite interesting because I'd never I didn't do well with those challenges and it was my first time of coming second um of you know coming second in a transformation challenge so it was so fun now the whole episode was dedicated to recycling where you know you would take some material some curtains and make it into a dress how conscious are you generally with your saying of avoiding that fast throwaway fashion thing um when it comes to sewing i ensure that i i do not go for poor quality fabrics i try my best to go with good quality fabrics that would last and stand the test of time and all the washing and ironing. So that's my way of, you know, avoiding that fast fashion because the cheaper the fabric, you know, it won't last and, you know, it gets thrown out, doesn't it? And I do ensure that I do not, you know, buy a lot of cheap, you know, poorly made fabrics, garments.

So I think that's my way of avoiding that fast fashion thing that's going on at the moment. You said when you were making to measure, you needed to see the model, you needed to see her body shape and obviously her size. How does sewing your own wardrobe change the way you kind of see yourself and your own body? I guess you get to understand it better. Yes, and sewing for myself does help me appreciate my body type, my body shape,

and, you know, feel confident in myself um I lost weight lately recently well some years a year plus ago and um sewing has made me you know appreciate my body a bit more um and love my body a lot more as well so um yeah i sewing for myself sewing for myself does have it does play a big a big role in appreciating my body you're wearing a great skirt this morning which it kind of flows is it a full circle no this is a gathered skirt full gathered skirt and i made it myself you did make it yourself good yes i had to ask you. It's colourful and it looks really good. Just one more question. One of the television critics said this morning in his paper,

how heartening to watch the finalists on the Great British Sewing Bee reject conflict in favour of cooperation. How important was that atmosphere for all of you? Oh, it was having, you know, 10 people who were very supportive of each other, very generous with their knowledge, helping each other out and not having any sort of, you know, conflict, you know, any sort of agenda of, you know, no... It was a very, very lovely atmosphere in that sewing room. And it was... You know, you watch these things on TV and you think, yeah, they're just making it up. No, when someone left every week, it was very, very sad

because everyone played a different role in making it a nice, you know, atmosphere in that sewing room. Well, Julius, congratulations on winning. Thank you very much. Make more beautiful clothes, and thank you very much indeed for being with us this morning. Oh, thank you. Thank you. I appreciate it. Thank you. Now, you kind of know it's going to happen,

but it still comes as a terrible shock when your cooperative, obedient, delightful child suddenly becomes a door slammer, an answerer back, a stomper off to his or her room when ticked off for doing something really stupid and probably dangerous. Yes, it's the teenager. And we all went through it just as our own offspring will. But what is it that makes the change so inevitable? Well Sarah Jane Blakemore is Professor of Cognitive Neuroscience at University College London and the author of Inventing Ourselves the Secret Life of the Teenage Brain. Sarah Jane why do lovely children turn into stroppy teenagers? Well there are probably lots of reasons and the first thing to say is that not all

do. There are lots of individual differences but I think we all remember what it's like to be a teenager. It's a time of transition and it can be difficult and that's for lots of reasons. There are social changes moving from small primary schools to big secondary schools. There are hormonal changes of puberty but there are also very large changes going on in the brain during the teenage years. Now it is adolescence we call it adolescence does it only apply to the human being or do the effects on the brain occur in animals as well? Adolescence interestingly is not just specific to humans all animals go through a period of development between going through puberty and becoming fully sexually mature adults. And interestingly, you can measure behaviour

during what you might call adolescence in animals. And lots of scientists do this around the world, particularly in mice and rats who go through about 30 days of adolescence. And you can see increases in behaviours that we typically associate with human adolescents so things like risk taking and being impulsive and very big changes in social behaviour. There was one study published a few years ago showing that adolescent mice drink more alcohol when they're with other mice and that's not true for adult mice. You include a teenage diary, which I think was from 1969 in the book. Why did you pick that? Because what's it significant? It's such a beautiful illustration of what it's like to be a teenager.

I've got it here, so I'll read it out. There's nothing like teenage diaries for putting momentous historical events in perspective this is my entry for the 20th of july 1969 i went to art center by myself in yellow cords and blouse ian was there but he didn't speak to me got a rhyme put in my handbag from someone who's apparently got a crush on me it's nicholas i think, man landed on moon. It's incredible, isn't it? Just on Passover, somebody landed on the moon. But what do we know then about what is actually going on in the teenage brain?

What have been the most significant breakthroughs? Because I think the work in the past 20 years has changed enormously. Absolutely. When I was an undergraduate in the mid-90s, I was taught that the human brain stops has changed enormously. Absolutely. When I was an undergraduate in the mid-90s, I was taught that the human brain stops developing in childhood. I have my undergraduate textbooks, that's what they say. We now know that that's completely false. And in fact, research using MRI brain scanning technology over the past 20 years has shown that the human brain not only develops throughout childhood childhood but also continues to develop very substantially right throughout adolescence and only starts to stabilise in the

mid-twenties. So why then do teenagers tend to engage in risky behaviour even when they've been extremely well brought up? What's going on in their brain? It's a very interesting question. And again, the first thing to say is that there are big individual differences. Some teenagers take risks, but others don't. And the other thing about risk taking in the teenage years, so if you think about the risks that we typically worry about teenagers taking, like smoking or binge drinking or experimenting with drugs or even dangerous driving, those are risks that teenagers don't tend to take when they're on their own. It's when they're with their friends. So the social context and social pressure and social influence

is a really key factor in adolescent risk-taking. So are they just showing off? Well, I don't know if it's just showing off. I think there's a lot of evidence showing that the drive to be included by your peer group and not to be socially excluded is heightened in adolescence, because none of us likes to be socially excluded. We all like to be invited to parties and not to be ostracized by our peers. But that feeling of that negative feeling we get if we're not invited to something or if we are socially excluded

is higher in adolescence than it is in adults. So they have a drive to be included by their peer group. And it's all part of becoming, gradually becoming an independent adult, where you have to become independent from your parents and more affiliated with your peer group. Now we all know that teenagers can be painfully embarrassed, usually by their parents. Their father might be dancing, their mother might be behaving in a way that is not acceptable to the child. Do we know why they get so embarrassed? Yeah, I know all about that at the moment.

My children are teenagers and very embarrassed by me. And there's a very nice story of one of my friends where he said that the difference that he noticed when his daughters went from before puberty to after puberty was their levels of embarrassment, particularly in front of him. difference that he noticed when his daughters went from before puberty to after puberty was their levels of embarrassment, particularly in front of him. So before puberty, if they were messing around in a supermarket, he'd say, stop messing around and I'll sing your favourite song. And they would stop and he'd sing in public. And after puberty, that was the threat. The very idea

of their dad singing in public was enough to make them behave. So why is this? It's something that I think most teenagers do go through this intense feeling of self consciousness. Adolescence is all about developing your sense of self and who you are. So I think you do become more aware of yourself and how other people see you. There was a study by Leah Somerville in Harvard in America a couple of years ago, showing that the brain responds differently and the body responds differently when teenagers think they're being watched. So if you scan the brains of children and teenagers and adults, and occasionally you tell them when a red light comes on, that

indicates that you're being observed by someone your own age. That condition where they think they're being watched results in heightened embarrassment, heightened stress as measured by sweat on the skin, and heightened activity of parts of the social brain in adolescents compared to children and adults. So there's a biological reason why teenagers feel particularly embarrassed. Why is teenage the most risky time for the development of mental illness? Yeah, so mental health problems mostly start in adolescence. It's been estimated that 75% of mental health problems start before the age of 24, mostly during the teenage years and the early 20s. Why is the million dollar question? It's what many scientists around the

world are trying to figure out. And there are probably lots of reasons. It's a time of huge change. There's the social changes. You become very aware of what your friends think about you and how society is treating you. You start to become more aware of your place in society and your future. You're going through big sex hormonal changes, which we know have an impact on mood. And in addition to that, your brain is changing in a very substantial way. And all those factors together, the social and the biological, probably make this period of life a vulnerable period for mental illness. Now, one of the things you write is that they will respond better to reward than to punishment. What does that teach us about actually how to handle them? There is quite a lot of evidence from lots of different developmental psychology labs

showing that adolescents respond better to reward than to punishment and they respond better to immediate rewards than long-term rewards and they respond better to immediate consequences of their actions than to talking about the long-term consequences of their actions. Now I think what that means in terms of if we think about public health, trying to encourage young people to make healthy decisions, like, for example, healthy eating or not taking risks with smoking or binge drinking, or even things like around bullying. We know that focusing on the longterm potential health or legal risks of those decisions doesn't really work in the teenage years. It's more about the moment than now, and particularly the social consequences. We know from public health research, for example, that, for example, in the context of bullying. A big study in America with 56 schools, half the schools

carried out their anti-bullying campaigns as usual with the teachers running them and half the schools, the young people, the children themselves carried out their own anti-bullying campaigns like debates and parties and wristband campaigns and in those schools where the anti-bullying campaigns were led by the children, they showed a 25% decrease in bullying incidents over the subsequent year compared with the schools where the anti-bullying campaigns were run by teachers. Young people respond really well to campaigns and messages run by each other, by the other young people. And that makes sense. We know that young people are very influenced by their peer group and by their friends. Well, Professor Sarah-Jane Blakemore, we could talk a lot more on this subject,

but thank you very much indeed for being with us this morning. And of course, we would like to hear from you about this. If you have teenagers, you'll all have been a teenager at some point, let us know how you handled it or how you are handling your kids. Thank you very much indeed. Thank you very much. Now still to come in today's programme the music of the soprano Carolyn

Sampson. She explores tragic characters such as Ophelia through composers including Brahms and Richard Strauss. And the serial, episode three of Coach Karen's Halftime Team Talk. A reminder that the Woman's Hour podcast for parents is out today. It's all about maths anxiety and how to help your child if they have it. You can download the podcast through BBC Sounds and you'll find an article with tips for parents on the Woman's Hour website.

If you've missed programmes earlier in the week, you may like to catch up with Sarah Mitchell, whose mother was diagnosed with dementia at the age of only 58, or Women and Wigs, how to find a decent one. If you've lost your hair because of chemotherapy, you can find everything on BBC Sounds. And now the third of our trips to the 63rd Commission on the Status of Women at the United Nations in New York, which ended last week.

Its job is the promotion of gender equality and the empowerment of women. And Anna Miller joined delegates from all over the world determined to be part of the conversation. She hung around in lunch queues and in corridors between sessions and asked them why they were there and what they had to say. Women of the world, why are you struggling for our rights? I'm Rosa Pavanelli, General Secretary of Public Services International. We represent 20 million public service workers.

So you get your lunch because we're actually... So we're actually in the queue to get some food because you've just done a rally. Tell me what the rally was about. To ensure women can access decent jobs, public services to ensure their fundamental human right and stop gender-based violence. I'm sure you are aware that in Glasgow, just a few months ago, there's been a great strike. And that's exactly the example. Women working in positions that are valued less than their male colleagues. There's people here from the Philippines, Ecuador, you're from Italy,

there's people from Africa here. This is affecting women everywhere even in the Nordic countries that are supposed to be the most progressive in that sense. Women continue to receive wages that are 15 percent less than male colleagues and the more we go to the south of the world, the more we are confronted with informal work, the more women are discriminated. Rosa, thank you for talking to me. You're the first lady I've ever interviewed while she's trying to get her lunch and I've just butted in to speak to you. It's also the first interview for me in queuing for food. Thank you.

There was a very terrible disaster here in New York City called the Triangle Shirtwaist Factory Fire, I think in the early 1900s. My name is Scarlett Ahmed. I'm with a union called the Public Employees Federation of New York State. Factories and sweatshops had been in more poor areas. This was in a middle-class neighborhood, so when women were jumping out windows and landing on the ground and dying, for the first time, the middle class was shocked. And they became involved and then there were significant reforms for labor and for women. But now, you know, 100 plus years from that, that industry has moved to poor countries. And the same things happen. You know, we see the factories are not safe. We see the women are not paid well. They're subject to sexual harassment from bosses. So the battle has to be international,

you know, because capitalism is international. So labor has to be as well. So it's important, I guess, for you to all come together. But how does it work? Oh, I really don't know. I'm an invited guest here. And I can't say that we do have a great international consciousness in our union but I think those of us attending today would like to see more consciousness about something more than the terms and conditions of our own work and I think women will be at the front line fighting those battles. So I met you at one of the events. Do you remember the event we met at? Yes, it has to do with social protection and about violence against women. And this was where I spoke out and I said I was a victim of violence in my marriage.

My name is Yemisi and I'm from Nigeria and I'm the founder of two NGOs. I said it's time for women to speak out. I said don't die in silence. And today I can proudly say that I have over a thousand women I'm working with. In Nigeria, women are relegated to the background. In the northern part of Nigeria, for instance, you're not allowed to even look at your husband in the face. We're made to believe that we're less human.

I had an event yesterday on mediation. We're saying that we need to encourage more women to come to this platform of mediation because women are naturally and informal mediators. Men believe in fight to finish. Women believe in talk to get results. There is no man on earth that doesn't have a woman that can reach his heart. There's always a woman that can reach your heart. Your mother, your wife, your daughter, your sister, somebody must reach your heart. We don't say we want to rub shoulders with men. Not at all. Far from it.

So what we're saying is, hey, let's appeal to the conscience of this man. Let them give us the space that we need. And then we make things happen. So it's been a wonderful time at CSW, I can tell you that. Can I ask this? I'm from the BBC. You're a guy here. I'm part of Girls Run International and I'm one of the only two guys out of the 45 women students. So my name is Anthony Trombie. I'm from Los Angeles, California. How old are you and what made you decide that this was important to you? So I'm 17 and I'm just about to start college. Most of the curriculum at my school what I've learned was not very related to women and through the GLI club that I joined I learned a bunch of information about women and all the issues and topics that

I was not exposed to and now I'm just very excited to learn more about these women's issues and maybe try to make a difference. Why do you think there's not more men like you? I think there's a stigma that like guys shouldn't be involved or that it's not their role to be involved. It's a little overwhelming but it's just it seems bigger than me. It seems like this room so much has gone on. It's sort of humbling that I'm sitting in a seat and I can be a part of what other people have been a part of to make real change. One in three girls in the Solomon Islands are sexually abused before they are 15. As a 16-year-old girl, to see written down in front of me the fact that so many girls younger than myself are having to endure this kind of abuse deeply shocked me. When I was 15 and younger, I trusted that if I disclosed I was

being sexually abused, I would have been taken seriously. In contrast, for many girls in the Solomon Islands, talking about abuse is taboo and can bring shame on the family. So I'm Bella, and I'm here with a youth delegation, and I'm going to be speaking on education and its role in empowerment in the Solomon Islands and Papua New Guinea. What was it like when you got that title and you thought, I've got to write something about that? Well, at first I was a bit nervous because the actual event focuses on the Pacific Rim and I didn't really know that much about it. But it's really interesting to look at two places that are such a contrast to where I live in the UK. What do you think being here and being part of this process

has done for you and maybe some of the other girls that are here? I think it's definitely given me more confidence and it's made me realise that I do actually have some alright things to say and that young people do deserve to have a space to talk and I hope that other girls can realise that and young people in general. So what has been your favourite thing so far? What have you come away from and thought, oh, that was brilliant?

My favourite thing has definitely been meeting all of the amazing women and seeing what they've done. And also I went to an event on migrant women and girls, which was really interesting and I learnt so much. I hope that other young people can see what is possible and that their voices are being listened to. So Alice, we're in the town hall. Why is this so significant? It is full of people all over the world. Every nation is represented. To say that I was here to see

the Secretary General of the United Nations, Antonio Guterres, and also Famsuli Miyambo-Nguke, who's the Under-Secretary General of UN Women, who is the voice of women at the United Nations. I want to be able to say I saw them. And when I go into schools, children sit up and listen. You can't see it, but the reason why everyone's clapping and whooping is because one of the ladies on the panel have basically asked women around the room

to basically sing women's songs of encouragement, of empowerment. So we've had Philippines, we've had Nigeria, we've had Ghana, we've had Canada, all getting up and singing and everyone sort of competing a little bit. I'll let you listen. In my heart I do

believe You shall set us free again Let us greet the King. Anna Miller was at the 63rd Commission on the Status of Women at the United Nations in New York. That was the German philosopher Nietzsche who said there is always some reason in love, but there is also always some reason in madness. It's his words that have inspired an album of music by the soprano Carolyn Sampson. It's called Reason in Madness and focuses on some of literature's great tragic heroines and the way their stories

have been interpreted by different composers. This, live, is one of Brahms' Ophelia songs. Carolyn, that's lovely. Now scuttle across the studio. I'm scuttling, I'm scutt, that's lovely. Now, scuttle across the studio. I'm scuttling, I'm scuttling. And sit down. It's interesting. Why did you include an accompanied, unaccompanied piece, given your partnership with the pianist Joseph Middleton?

It wasn't planned, actually, originally. But I had the idea that it could actually work as a postlude to the disc and that it would be quite effective having previously heard all five of these very short songs together with the piano accompaniment. I thought it might be quite haunting

to have it as a sort of echo at the end but in fact the way the disc worked out and with the Proulin, La Dame de Monte Carlo, she throws herself into the Mediterranean at the end. But in fact, the way the disc worked out and with the Poulenc, La Dame de Monte Carlo, she throws herself into the Mediterranean at the end. You can't really follow that in some ways. And then we tried putting it at the beginning of the disc. And I think, I hope, I feel it works really well

because it's slightly unsettling. And so perhaps it just opens the door to this world of these women who have sort of lost their balance a little bit. There are other songs about Ophelia, such as the one we're about to hear by Richard Strauss. How different would you say his interpretation is from the Brahms that we just heard? Almost as different as you could get, I think.

The Brahms songs were written for an actress to sing on stage. They're very simple, as you heard, and we think the accompaniments were just a sort of learning aid, they're sketches. Whereas Strauss was, of course, writing sort of the fantasiac where they just started looking at psychoanalysis and things like that um but they were also written a little bit as a an act of revenge for his publishers who were forcing him to write songs when he didn't want to be writing songs and he deliberately made them very difficult, and they're harmonically difficult, they're a challenge to sing,

but he does an amazing job of setting up this very blank, this sort of glassy piano part, this accompaniment, and again they're difficult to hear at the beginning where she's going, and then there are outbursts, and there's sort of this slightly bipolar quality to her. And in wo shall hoot and starr Would did sandal show It's almost chilling, that piece. Yes, very extraordinary.

Why is Ophelia so fascinating to so many composers? I suppose it's a good story. She's a good character. And I think it's a rich theme, this idea of a slightly unhinged person. And what's interesting, I think, and what I hope will come across on the disc to people, is how differently composers treat the same story. And we've had two very different ones there, but there are also the French settings that come later on.

Yeah, all completely different. Now, your album cover is a recreation of Millet's famous painting of Ophelia lying dead in the stream. And I wondered, why did she do that? How important is it to do something like that to market classical music? Yes, it's a really interesting question, how we market things. And of course, these days with CDs being only a small part of the way people buy classical music. I think we do have to look for ways to stand out or for something to be striking.

And of course, the Millet is such a reference point, I think, for a lot of people who might be interested in art, but not necessarily classical music. And so I suppose one hopes to draw a slightly different audience in and it's you know that's our our sort of reference now one piece that's quite well known I think that's on on the album is Schubert's Gretchen at the spinning wheel what makes it so special I think the undercurrent in the piano part, this repetition, you feel her sitting at the spinning wheel. But again, her text is, you know, I don't have peace.

There's no peace here. I won't have peace. And she's thinking about this person that she doesn't have or can't have. And it's quite disturbing. Again, when she has an outburst, she always comes back. She talks about a kiss and describes his eyes and lips, but always she's brought back by this repetitive wheel. We ought to say that was Schumann, not Schubert. Yeah, we got muddled up. I got muddled up there. Schumann's Spinnerin, yeah. Yeah, OK, we've got it right.

The title of the album, as I said earlier, draws very much on Nietzsche. How did he help you make the connections between the women and the music? That quote was really what just bound everything together and gave it a reason actually this um because yes whenever we're putting together a program of songs and we've got our own theme we don't want it to just be a theme for the sake of it um it it is a sort of a look at

the way these composers have have approached this interesting subject matter. And the Nietzsche quote just seemed to sum it all up perfectly, actually. But why do you suppose these, I mean, they're great composers all. Why did they find the unstable or mad woman so fascinating? I think it was through all art and poetry, really. I mean, because, of course, the texts came first, so the poets have already gone down that path, I suppose. And as we said in art, you know, people painting Ophelia, people painted also women on the investigation table in clinics and things like that.

There was this fascination. Carolyn Sampson ending Wednesday's edition of Woman's Hour. We had lots of response from some of you who were obviously fans of the great British sewing bee. Rebecca Hughes said, I was rooting for Ricardo, but hearing Juliet's reaction just now made me well up again. She's so genuinely thrilled. She's been classed from week one, deserved winner. Now, it didn't surprise me that we had lots of response to the discussion about the teenage brain. Stephen Evans said, and they're all different.

I have five children, and every one went through it differently. There is no learning here, just adaptability and coffee. Hayley Cole said, I don't have teenage children yet, although my nine-year-old daughter certainly has some big hormonal mood swings already.

But Latte, my two-and-a-half-year-old golden retriever, had an awful, stroppy, defiant teenage phase at around 18 months. She'd definitely have slammed doors if she were able, and I'm sure she gave me more than one eye roll. She also took to not listening and used to talk via yawning back to us if we told her off. Kate Gould said, I have a 14-year-old daughter. She was always lovely, engaged, asking questions, lively and sociable.

However, as a teenager, she's often moody, sulky and likes to be in splendid isolation. I was taken aback when it happened because I'd forgotten quite how awful it is at times to be a teenager. So she and I keep the communication channels open as much as possible and we talk about how she's feeling and liken it to being in a spin wash, hormones all over the place and never knowing really how you're feeling or why you feel the way you do. I give her space and boundaries but pick my battles and praise as much as possible because her anxieties have increased and self-esteem has slumped. I take comfort in knowing it doesn't last forever and that whenever she's displaying difficult but normal teenage behaviour, it's not going to last. Mandy said, I have three children, 16, 14 and 12. I think my 14-year-old son may be vaping and may be using weed.

Just discovered this and your piece today is really well timed. Not sure how to bring this subject up with him. It's a terrifying time as a parent and as a child. And then Sarah Gore said, I love living with my teenagers. My son, being of a bloody-minded disposition, did it in reverse. He's now 18 and a delight. He makes conversation, helps at home,

and I never have to hang around for him to put his shoes on. Do join me tomorrow, if you can, when we'll be discussing vulnerable mothers and how they might be supported. That's two minutes past ten, if you can, when we'll be discussing vulnerable mothers and how they might be supported. That's two minutes past ten. If not, you can always get the podcast. Bye-bye.

You know the way late at night, in bed, in the dark, your tired mind can wander and strange thoughts float like balloons escaping into the sky. Well, Bunk Bed is a podcast where Peter Curran and Patrick Marber find the nearest faraway place from the hurly-burly of daily life where tired minds can wander. Why don't you come along and eavesdrop and see if you like it. You can subscribe to Bunkbed on BBC Sounds. I'm Sarah Treleaven and for over a year

I've been working on one of the most complex stories I've ever covered. I'm Sarah Trelevan, and for over a year, I've been working on one of the most complex stories I've ever covered. There was somebody out there who was faking pregnancies. I started, like, warning everybody. Every doula that I know. It was fake. No pregnancy. And the deeper I dig, the more questions I unearth. How long has she been doing this?

What does she have to gain from this? From CBC and the BBC World Service, The Con, Caitlin's Baby. It's a long story, settle in. Available now.