Woman's Hour - Woman's Hour Power List: Our Planet - The Big Reveal

Episode Date: November 16, 2020

Today Jane Garvey reveals the 30 names on this year's Woman’s Hour Power List, which celebrates women from across the UK that are making a significant contribution to the health and sustainability of our planet.Jane talks to some of the women on this year's list and hears how the judges – Lucy Siegle, Zunaira Malik, Emma Howard Boyd, Flo Headlam and Prof Alice Larkin – managed to take over 1000 listener emails and whittle it down to our final Power List of 30.Presenter: Jane Garvey Producer: Anna Lacey Assistant Producer: Rosie Stopher Judge: Lucy Siegle Judge: Alice Larkin Judge: Zunaira Malik Judge: Flo Headlam Judge: Emma Howard Boyd

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BBC Sounds. Music, radio, podcasts. Hi, this is Jane Garvey. Welcome to the Woman's Hour podcast from Monday, the 16th of November 2020. Good morning, and we're bursting to tell you about the Woman's Hour Power List 2020, which this year is all about the planet, our planet, and the fantastic women who, in some cases, have put in hours, months, years of work to ensure that the environment is better for all of us. We're searching for women in the UK making a significant difference and thanks to you and all your many, many hundreds of suggestions

we have found them. We've found 30 brilliant women to celebrate. We're going to mention all 30 names today. There won't be time to talk to all of them, obviously, but all will feature on Woman's Hour in some form between now and the end of this benighted year, which is why we're so delighted to be positive today. There are five categories, decision makers, innovators, communicators, campaigners, and volunteers. You can get involved on social media at BBC Women's Hour. The five judges are with me. Lucy Siegel, environment journalist and broadcaster, head judge.

Lucy, welcome. Yes, we're all socially distanced. Of course we are in the biggest radio studio the BBC could find. Flo Hedlum is here as well, horticulturalist and garden designer. Good to see you, Flo. Hi, Jane. Emma Howard-Boyd, chair of the Environment Agency. Welcome, Emma.

Great to be here. And lovely to see you too. And Zanera Malik, who works for the charity Action for Conservation. Welcome again, Zanera. Hiya. And joining us from Broadbottom, we have Alice Larkin, professor of climate science and energy policy at the University of Manchester. Alice, how are you?

I'm good, thank you. Thanks for having me here. Well, it's just lovely to get you all involved this morning live on Women's Hour at BBC Women's Hour on social media. Join in with the positive vibes around this fantastic power list in 2020. Lucy, this has been tough, hasn't it? I know you did genuinely have, we do sometimes exaggerate, we this time hundreds of suggestions from listeners it's been amazing yeah it was absolutely amazing but also quite daunting initially and you thought so many completely amazing names and just having this panel of judges to go through this process with and talk about these issues. I mean, I can honestly say it's been one of the best things I've done in my career.

Zanera, how's it been for you? Yeah, I think it's been really fun. I think we were all on Zoom talking about, you know, sharing all these amazing stories from these women. And like Lucy said, I've really enjoyed the process as well. It's been extremely fun, inspiring. Yeah. Yeah.

And Lucy, I just wonder whether these names that we're going to hear about, some of them are genuinely women working at, I don't really like the term grassroots, but working often for no payment. Yeah. Women who, frankly, might never have expected recognition. And they've had a phone call from us and they've been told, you know what, someone else has thought of you and put you forward. And it's been a fantastic thing for them.

Yeah, I really hope so. And I think one of the things that was quite emotional for me at the start was when people were putting forward these women's names, they were telling us a lot and they were so emotional and so proud and so appreciative of what a lot of these women on this list had done. So from the outset, you could tell what an important intervention people were making at the most local level to other people's lives and futures. And that is, sorry, I get a bit like the chills

just actually speaking about it I think we're allowed to be a tiny bit emotional are we in a restrained radio force sort of a way I've got tears in my eyes that's quite restrained you've gone too soon I think Emma Howard Boyd of the Environment Agency people have been banging on about the environment for a long, long time. Now, it seems we might be on the cusp of something actually happening. Do you think that's true? I do. And again, the women on our list are demonstrating how important it is to keep going, roll up your sleeves, be resilient, be tenacious. And I think we're beginning to see right now,

this would have been the time when COP26 was due to happen. We're expecting a speech or an intervention from our prime minister later this week. We really hope that we're breaking through right now on the environmental agenda. Just a quick one on what COP was meant to be. COP, the climate change discussions, the big global discussions are now taking place in December, November next year, being delayed because of the pandemic, but it gives us more time to get more stuff done in the run up to those important discussions. Now, there may be a tiny bit of cynicism around the fact that this current government has suddenly, some might say, leapt on the climate change bandwagon, trying to hitch its pony to the green bandwagon

that's been propelling along quite nicely. True, what do you say? I think there are all sorts of organisations that are part of government, including the Environment Agency, that have been rolling up our sleeves for many months on this green agenda. I think for various reasons, things have been delayed. I'm really expecting some promising announcements soon. OK, let's hear about some of the women then. As I said at the beginning, we haven't got time to

talk to all of them today. Our desperation this morning is to make sure that every single one of the 30 names is at least mentioned between now and a quarter to 11. So Lucy Siegel, tell us about 10 fantastic women on the list. Okay, starting at number 30, we've got Christine Grossart. She's an ocean warrior. She's a very, very good technically skilled scuba diver. And she has teams of people who dive into the sea and remove discarded fishing gear, which is mainly made of plastic. So she's rescuing wildlife from the oceans. Number 29, we've got Mandy Roberts. She's on a one-woman mission to keep the hedgehog population healthy and strong. Then we've got Safia Mini. Safia Mini was the

founder of PeopleTree. She's reshaped the fashion business. She knows all about supply chains and responsible business. And she offers a blueprint about how to do this differently. Number 27, Michaela Loach. She's an influencer. She has more than 90,000 followers on platforms like Instagram. And she's talking about the real issues, about climate and nature crises, but also about environmental racism.

Really, really important stuff. We have Yvonne Witter at number 26. She reaches out and helps to get new audiences into natural environments like the Peak District, including BAME groups. Number 25, Judy Webb, a local conservation champion who has been recording a piece of Oxfordshire for 25 years and we have incredible data from her. Number 24, Fiona Harvey. Fiona Harvey is a journalist. She's been writing about the climate for 20 years

at a very, very important investigative news kind of juncture. Her articles hold corporations to account. They speak truth to power. Number 23, Kate Humble, synonymous with wildlife broadcasting. She's brought nature into homes across the UK and she's also worked tirelessly in her own life on nature and climate. 22, we have Rebecca Willis. She believes in people power and she's one of the driving forces behind Net Zero UK. Her research is about opening up climate change solutions to everyone. And 21, we have Catherine Howarth.

She's CEO of ShareAction. She's on a mission to make finance more ethical. And she's done things like encourage big banks to move away from fossil fuel investment and address biodiversity. It's revolutionary stuff. Brilliant. Thank you very much. I should say that Michaela Loach will be on Thursday's edition of Women's Hour this week. You can hear from Kate Humble on Friday's programme. And we're going to hear now from Yvonne Witter.

But first of all, Flo Hedlum, there are four volunteers in that list of 10 names there. Why were you so determined to recognise volunteers in this list? Well, the volunteers that we have on the list, they form part of a group of women who, as well as the bigger power brokers, are working at that grassroots community level. And actually, these are women who are working maybe part-time in their spare time, but they're making a huge impact in the work that they do. They're tireless, they're passionate,

they may have started a campaign on their own, or they've joined an organisation, but they work because they have a real commitment to change things at community level, bring people along and really to shine a light on the environment and what we all can do in our own space. And what was so special about this lady, Yvonne? Yvonne is, she's described by the National Parks UK as transformative, the work that she does. She is the chair of the Peak District Mosaic Club and they work to bring, she works to bring people from black and minority communities

out of the city, out of Sheffield, into the National Park, and to enlighten them, teach them, engage them with nature, with all the sort of engagement you get from coming out of the city, and the stress relief of being in nature, just just getting them enthused about about the the countryside thank you flo um and yvonne congratulations good morning to you good morning um so you got the email from us or was it a phone call what happened i got into bed decided to look at some emails and then i saw this email and i said to myself, what does the BBC want now? And I thought, really? Is that really, really true? And I was really surprised.

You know, it was a big surprise to me. I had to sit up in bed and read about four times. And then I replied. And then it was followed by a phone call. So it was a big surprise. Well, I'm delighted for you. And it really does. So how many years have you been working on this now?

I've been the mosaic champion since 2008 with the campaign for National Park before we set up the charity Peak District Mosaic. And your childhood, Yvonne, was that what sparked your interest in being outdoors? Definitely. I was born in England and grew up in Jamaica, left UK when I was four. And where we live, it was the countryside. It was everything to do with the countryside, to do with the fields, the open land, the rivers, going to the mango fields, doing different things, going to a father's farm. So for me, my childhood memories, I wanted to relive that in the UK when I returned to the UK. And I wanted to get out and feel like I'm in Jamaica. It's different, but there is some similarity to me growing up in Jamaica.

So I wanted to relive my childhood and also to introduce people to getting out and enjoying the outdoor and the countryside. Do you have a favourite walk in the Peak District? It has to be Mum Tour in Castleton. It has to be that one. That is one of my favourite walks in the Peak District. And you take, how big are the groups you take up there with you? Or is that not a walk for the novice? Tell me about it. It's a walk for the novice tell me about it it's a walk for anyone you have to come really and be prepared in you know very sturdy footwear and just appropriate for the weather and it's a it can be a gentle stroll it can be something that you just

get up there in so much time but i think that the main thing about it is getting out and doing it the support is there um and for us to be able to do that, you know, it's being able to tell people that although it's a hill that you can see up there and it's a distance, you just take small steps to get there. The group varies from week to week or month to month. It can be five, it can be 10, it can be 20, it can be 30.

You know, different people come at different time and we welcome anyone from BAME groups black asian and minority ethnic groups to come and join us it is fun you have a lot of fun you have a lot of laughter and you learn about the natural environment when you're out there somewhere where you can relax, somewhere where you can really sit and think about, you know, the place and how we kind of embrace it and take that home with you and just reflect on the peace that you are surrounded with at times. And Yvonne, would it be fair to say that some of the people who come on your walks were people who perhaps in the past might not have appreciated that this countryside was theirs as much as it's anybody's? Yes, they do. We've got people who didn't understand how to get out there. They didn't understand where to go.

So for me, it's working with people to gain that understanding and to let them know and reassure them that the countryside, the landscape is for everyone to enjoy. Get out there. If you don't know how to get out there connect with the group that knows about it and that's how people connect with us we can i go into the community and i engage with people to introduce them to the countryside um it is something that some people may not want to do on their own but you don't have to do it on your own. You can go with a friend or go with a member of your family.

So our aim is to train people to be community champions, to go out into the community and motivate and support others to get there. And, you know, it's a new world to some people. But once you get out there the first time, you always want to go back. Well, I'm so delighted for you, and I love your email, by the way, because you say in the email you wrote to us, the joy of listening to Woman's Hour is like being rich without the cash. Yes, definitely. That should be on T-shirts and postcards

at the lot. Fantastic. Yvonne, I'm really delighted and I hope you celebrate in a gentle way, maybe by going out today. I appreciate your time. Thank you very much indeed. That's Yvonne Witter, chair of the Peak District Mosaic Club. And actually, Alice Larkin in Broadbottom.

That's not so far away from you, is it? That's not far at all. No, I've been up Montauk. Is that one of your favourite walks? Well, I like doing lots of cycling around here, actually. So I'm more of a cycler than a walker, but I do enjoy going up Mantua. It's excellent. Yeah, OK.

If you'd like to know more about any of the women on this year's Power List, there is an article on the ever-present and ever-enlightening Women's Hour website. There are biogs there as well, and there are pictures. There's also a video on Twitter and on Instagram. And we're going to be covering lots of environment related stories um for the next month from hydrogen trains oh sorry these are stories we have done over the last month hydrogen trains paint recycling river pollution and a q a with lucy emma and flow you can find all of these by going to the woman's hour website and looking through past episodes. BBC.co.uk forward slash Woman's Hour.

I think probably we should have another a chunk of fantastic women. Numbers 20 to 11 from you, Siegel. It's very formal. From you, Siegel. So away you go. Thanks, Garvey. OK, number 20. We have Amanda Absalom-Lowe.

Amanda is a recycling powerhouse. She set up Pembrokeshire Care, Share and Give. And the influence she's had in her community to create a local circular economy has been, you know, unbelievable, really. Number 19, we have Holly Gillibrand, a young woman standing up for the environment, taking part in the Strike for Climate, the school strikes Fridays for the Future movement. And she's a lovely writer, writes passionately about rewilding. Then we have Zarina Ahmed. Zarina provides minority ethnic environmental groups with the tools they need to apply for funding like the Scottish Climate Challenge Fund. She fosters a diversity of ideas

and it's a really innovative thing that she has created. Number 17, Miranda Lowe. She specialises in life below the waves. So she is a curator. Her work is based on a lifelong love of the natural world and she's just a brilliant communicator. Number 16, we have Caroline Mason, CEO of the Esme Fairburn Foundation. Now, she is really responsible for the funding of some of the

biggest environmental projects in the UK, also committed to making investment more ethical and just getting those funding opportunities through to the projects that need to happen. Number 15, we have Diane Gilpin. She founded Smart Green Shipping to make shipping a cleaner business. Most of the stuff that we use comes to this country via shipping, big footprint, she's addressing it. Number 14, Brenda Boardman. You see her work every day. Your fridge rating, your energy rating is because of Brenda Boardman. She's an expert in fuel poverty and energy saving. And she has been really looking after us for decades.

You just maybe didn't realise it. 13, Franny Armstrong, a documentary maker who brings environmental issues to the big screen and a big audience. Very successful behind films like The Age of Stupid and MacLibel. Number 12, Judy Ling Wong founded the Black Environment Network. Many years ago, she's a major voice on social inclusion in nature. She's made the environmental and heritage sectors a safer space and welcoming space for minority ethnic groups. Decades of work again.

And number 11, we have Gail Bradbrook. She's the co-founder of Extinction Rebellion. Controversial, yes, but that organisation has shaken up the climate conversation through peaceful protests in a way like we have never experienced before. OK, some people, you did say controversial, some people might take issue with her inclusion. What do you say to that? I think that the influence and impact of Extinction Rebellion is just undeniable. So yes, controversial, but has made waves. Okay, Emma, any thoughts on that? I agree. And the work

of Extinction Rebellion, when it is peaceful and focused, has really made people sit back and think and start to act. Okay. Holly Gillibrand, the youth climate activist, is going to be on Thursday Morning's Woman's Hour this week. But now we're about to talk to Brenda Boardman. But Alice Larkin, I know you thought Brenda absolutely had to be included. Just tell us why. Yeah, well, one of the areas that we often don't focus on is energy reduction, energy demand, you know, efficiency. And Brenda, you know, has dedicated her work, her life work to trying to get us to understand

how we can both, you know, reduce the energy consumption, which is beneficial for the climate, but also tackle things like fuel poverty. And so, you know, even innovation and, you know, the evidence base that Brenda has helped to build over the years, I mean, you know, just incredibly important and just doesn't get the sort of attention, I guess, it deserves. And so I'm really delighted to see Brenda on the list here. Well, congratulations to Dr. Brenda Boardman. And good morning to you, Brenda. How are you? Good morning, Jane. Tell us then, how long have you felt

that maybe your work deserved more recognition than it was getting? Oh, I don't know that I've ever felt that. Oh, go on. Allow yourself. But no, it's very nice to be working on something and have it recognised, as Alice said. It's very rewarding. And you don't

always know why you do something. And I've been working on energy since 1980 and delighted in many ways that the recognition includes the work that we've done at the University of Oxford on labelling and helping people, even though they didn't know it. It's interesting, isn't it, that back in the day, and perhaps not that long ago, manufacturers thought that consumers didn't care about energy efficiency. What you and your colleagues have proved that, in fact, we do. We care quite a lot. That's absolutely right.

When we had our first meeting with, or the first meeting I attended in 1994 with manufacturers, they said, look, nobody ever asks us about the energy efficiency of a fridge or a freezer. Well, how could we? Because we didn't know it was an issue. We didn't know that the best and the worst were at least a factor of two apart in terms of their energy consumption. And we have to thank the European Commission for insisting that energy labels came in and that we all had an opportunity to see whether they were A-rated or G-rated. Some of our listeners may be about to think about buying, for example, a new washing machine. You're looking at paying, what quid 250 quid a bit more probably i'm not up to date with those prices okay but what should you look for what what are the what's the right label to aim for well the on the a to g and now it's a a plus a plus plus a plus plus plus in some cases uh go as high up the alphabet as you can.

And also one of the good things about washing machines, they also have a lot of information, which is rather crucial, about how well the washing machine actually washes. And if, for instance, you've got a tumble dryer as well in your home because you've nowhere to hang out the washing, look for something with a high spin speed, because if it has a high spin speed, it gets rid of the water and there's less drying to take place in the tumble dryer. Should we ever, honestly, Brenda, use a tumble dryer? Well, some people don't have the choice, Jane, if they don't have much space. Obviously, in the summer, it's much easier to choose. In the winter, it's not always quite so easy. But getting rid of the water through a high spin speed is at least a start.

And what's the next step, Brenda, to help people, to help all of us become more energy efficient in the home? Well, the beauty of the energy label is twofold. First of all, we all understand it. And the A to G is very recognisable. And it's now on our homes, on our cars, on our televisions, it's on a whole range of different products. what is a more efficient product and buy that if possible. But increasingly, we're working from things that are manufactured, like a cold appliance or a fridge or a freezer, into things which are not, and that's in particular our home, where we are the manufacturer, if you like. It's our decisions that control how energy efficient our house is. There, it's much more difficult because every house and every family that lives in it is almost unique. So what matters to you? What matters to me? What's possible for you?

What's possible for me isn't always very easy to work out. But we all know or we're learning anyway that if we actually take measures and improve the energy efficiency of our house, then we've reduced our energy consumption, which helps the planet. Do you have concerns, Brenda, that post the pandemic, people will simply have other things on their mind? Bills to pay, perhaps they've lost their livelihoods. Does that worry you? Oh, absolutely. I really sincerely hope it's not going to be a cold winter because the poverty in this country is definitely increasing rather dramatically and horribly. And if it's a cold winter, we had an extra 50,000 deaths just because it was winter.

Well, we certainly don't want that on top of COVID. But one of the good things that came out of the pandemic was that we all had to get on our feet, get on our bicycles much more, and understand what was happening in our own locality. And those were two good things, both for transport emissions, not getting in the car so often, sadly not getting on public transport, but that's come once we've got our vaccines. But also getting to know our locality, working much more with local shops, local markets, working with our neighbours. And I think that's a trend that's going to get enforced. And I think it's only to the good. Well, that is something positive, isn't it? I think that's true, Alice, that we've all become more connected to our local, our local, our localities, our local environments? We have. And I think, you know, what Brenda's

talking about there is so important, because I think often in this debate, we think about, you know, technology as having all the solutions to our issues. But actually, a lot of what we're talking about in relation to climate change, and of course, some of these things have come up in the response to COVID is it's around, you know, it's about our lifestyles and how we live and how we interact, how we get to work or not. And, you know, so lots of questions have been raised because of the situation that we're in. And so I think it's a really valuable time to see if we can do things differently in the future, because, you know, not only do we have a COVID emergency, but we have a climate emergency. Thank you very much indeed Alice and congratulations again to Dr Brenda Boardman

who is just one of the women who was suggested for our innovators category. You're listening to Woman's Hour. We are running through the Woman's Hour power list for 2020, our planet and taking you well into the lives really and experiences and just genius of 30 women who are making the world a better place for everybody. Now, Commander Siegel will take us through numbers 10 to 2 in the power list. Away you go. OK, here we go. Number 10, we have Carolyn Cobalt and she co-founded, excuse the name of this, Women's Hour, the Manhood Peninsula Partnerships, geographical term.

OK, we'll let that one go. We'll let it go, which resulted in the protection of 300 hectares of important habitats from flooding. She basically saw that the system wasn't going to work, so created another one. Number nine, we have Manette Batters. Manette is president of the NFU, National Farmers Union, and she has pledged that agriculture will be net zero by 2040. So she's working hard to help farmers achieve that goal. Number eight we have Becky Spate. Becky is a CEO of the RSPB which is the largest conservation charity in the UK. She's known for being a powerhouse, has a lot of influence over how people interact with nature obviously through the size of RSPB, but also through her own passion

and thirst for knowledge. Number seven, Joanna Haig. Now, Joanna proved that although the sun's activity moves in 11-year cycles, it's not directly responsible for global warming. It might seem strange that somebody had to prove that, but her work was essential in accepting that climate change is real and needs solutions. Number six, Ella Dyche is campaigning to remove plastic from period products. She already convinced some retailers to switch their plastic tampon applicators for cardboard ones. She's saved so many tonnes of plastic already. She's a very young person and she's a very, very good activist. Sophie Howe at number five.

Sophie is the first Future Generations Commissioner of Wales. So she's holding government to account in the name of people who haven't even been born yet. Number four, Maya Rose Craig. Some people may know her better as Bird Girl UK. Now she's been sharing her love of birds and access to nature since she was tiny. She's still very young.

She fights for equal access to nature since she was tiny. She's still very young. She fights for equal access to nature. She's from British Bangladeshi heritage and she's really passionate about involving young people and all people from all communities. Number three, we have Rosamund Kissy Deborah. Rosamund is campaigning for cleaner air and she's a tireless campaigner following the tragic death of her own daughter Ella. She's made real change. She's incredibly influential and she's a very, very powerful activist. Number two, we have Fahana Yameen. She is an unparalleled environmental lawyer. She started on the international climate circuit speaking up for small low-lying island nations who are prone to flooding and being wiped out. She also really was responsible for creating net zero from the Paris climate agreement, from crystallising what that

was. And now she's applying all of this climate thinking and knowledge into local change, principally through her organisation, Think Do Camden, and encouraging all of us to do the same. Farhana's at number two. And I'm going to talk to her on Women's Hour tomorrow. Rosamund is going to be on the programme on Wednesday. Maya Rose on Thursday. Sophie Howe will be on Thursday's programme as well. Sophie, the Future Generations Commissioner for Wales,

which is intriguing, isn't it? Let's go back to the President of the National Farmers Union. And first of all, we'll just get the view of Emma. There will be a few questions asked about Minnette Batter's right, and I'm using that in speech marks to be on this list. So put the case for Minnette Batter's before she puts it herself. On you go. So farmers and agriculture could be the biggest X factor in how we deal with climate change and deal with environment and nature recovery. And through Manette's leadership, the goal for net zero by 2040 and the work she's been doing collaboratively around food standards and environmental standards and how that gets put into legislation is absolutely key for the planet, the countryside that we want

to see. Well, Minette is with us. Good morning to you. Congratulations, Minette. Very good morning. Now, tell us, some people might say agriculture has been part of the problem you would say you are trying to change well we are absolutely part of the solution because you know we are the one unique sector that is both a source of emissions but also a sink so actually we are the one industry that can do something about it and i think that is incredibly exciting we want to be world leaders in climate smart farming and producing carbon neutral food i set the target for 2040 to try and beat the government by 10 years so it's absolutely within our grasp and if we want to get back to sustainable living agriculture provides all of the solutions you know we can't keep mining everything from out of the

inner earth we've got to be doing this on the earth in a sustainable way so i think it's a really exciting time for farmers across the world and we cannot do it unless we work with farmers to make sure we are sustainably producing food and caring for the environment just for us townies really briefly if you can minette what is a climate smart farm climate smart farming is really about effectively producing the same amount of food or sometimes producing actually more food but impacting less. So using less inputs, less chemical fertilizers, less chemicals, which we already are leading on in many areas right across the cropping sector.

So we can do more new tech new innovation r&d i look at the work that's going on at harper adams with feeding micro algae that is meaning they're producing the same amount of milk but actually the methane from the cows is massively decreased there's all of those exciting things that are happening that now with a new agricultural policy we really can get to the place where we are producing carbon neutral food. I can think of a tomato grower who is using the whole of the tomato vine now to make all the packaging,

all totally biodegradable. I mean, imagine a world where all our food can be biodegradable, causing no impact to the planet at all. And we can do it and we can lead the green recovery. That's the exciting thing thank you very much congratulations again that is the president of the national farmers union minette batters and we also mentioned when lucy ran through that list of names ella daish the

plastic free period campaigner and as an error you were very keen on ella being included tell us why um i think with campaigning what we often forget is that people dedicate their lives almost to a cause. And once those demonstrations and the protests are over, you know, these people go back to their campaigns and they work hard in the background, which we often don't see. And with Ella, I think in the in a couple of years that she's been really active, she's been able to, you know, her campaign is so successful. And one thing we've really loved about her campaign specifically is how she is not only tackling environmental issues, but also period poverty, which is also another issue in society. And we saw that a lot with the nominations that came through, came through the sort of dual tackling of issues and something that I think going forward is going to be more needed.

Well, let's congratulate her. Ella, well done. Good morning to you. Thank you so much. Hi. Well, I'm delighted for you. You're still somebody who is very young. And I guess, is this the beginning

of a lifelong commitment to this cause and other connected causes? Definitely. Yeah. You know, I never thought that I would ever be doing something like this because I started it when I was a postal worker. But here we are. You know, I I never thought I could ever make a difference in this way. And I thought that politicians, scientists or people with degrees did. And they do. But so can any of us. And it's definitely made me realise how much I care about the environment. And yeah, it's definitely just the start. And what was the very first bit of campaigning that you did around this, Ella? Yeah, so I first started the campaign in 2018. and that's when I launched the end period plastic

petition and that's where it all kicked off for me it was just stuff of finding out how much plastic was in the period products that we're using day to day we don't really think about it but they contain up to 90 plastic and I was really horrified by that and that led to me starting this petition. And what's happened now? What's changed because of you? There's been a lot going on so I'm absolutely delighted that three UK retailers have recognised that plastic applicators are an unnecessary use of plastic and have removed them from production but I've also been doing a lot of work with period poverty funding and how that's being spent in the UK so I've been calling on governments and councils to spend this on

eco-friendly products because it not only tackles period poverty but it also tackles plastic pollution and protects the environment simultaneously and this has been received really well in Wales where four local authorities have committed to spending 100% of their funding on eco-friendly products. And the Welsh Government has also stipulated that 50% has to be spent in that way too across Wales. And I'm so proud of that because, you know, you don't often think that things like this can happen, but it just shows the positive difference that local authorities and governments can make.

Well, you should be proud of yourself as well and the work you've done. Ella, congratulations. I'm delighted for you as well. That's Ella Daish. Right. Who is at number one in the power list? Here's Lucy. At number one, we have a woman who's been a constant advocate for the planet

in the most powerful place in the UK, Parliament. The first Green Party of England and Wales and the MP, sorry, for England and Wales and the only one to maintain her seat throughout the decade. She's brought policy language, sustainable policy language, through throughout this time, which has not always been easy to do. She's actually responsible for creating the frameworks, which we're now relying on, and we're hearing the government, you know, trumpeting is their climate policy.

At number one in our Planet Power list is Caroline Lucas. Caroline Lucas, MP. And good morning to you, Caroline. Congratulations. Good morning. Thank you so much. I'm gobsmacked after that list. It was just so many amazing women.

It's so exciting to hear. Well, isn't it fantastic just to be able to be celebratory just for a couple of minutes in what has been a tough year for everybody? There's so much good work going on. And of course, I've got to be honest, you have to take a fair bit of credit for this because your presence, I know there's only one of you currently in the UK Parliament, but you're quite a formidable presence, aren't you? Own it.

I try to be in the nicest possible way. I mean, I think obviously it's hard. It's one voice out of 650 in the House of Commons. But I do see my role as constantly being there to remind people about the environmental aspects of whatever kind of policy they're discussing, because, you know, everyone has a bit of a habit to put things into compartments, you know. And the big thing about the environment and climate change is that you don't only need to worry about those when you're dealing with greener policies, but you have to go to the heart of government, to the treasury, to look at the kind of economic policies that are being pursued. Because quite often, you've got some very nice environmental policies

on one hand, and they're being utterly undermined by an economic system that's focused on ever more economic growth on the other. So it's about trying to make those connections and putting things onto the political agenda that might otherwise not be there. Well, cynically,

some might say, quite frankly, Caroline, that your work is done. We have a statement here from the Environment Minister, Rebecca Powell, this morning. I'd like to thank Women's Hour for shining a light on the many women who are working day in and day out to solve some of the biggest problems that this nation and the planet are facing. It shows how British women are central in the battle against climate change and the fight to restore lost nature. Being at the pinnacle of climate science, leading communities to take action to protect the environment and changing the way we live our lives for the better. This isn't really a place for cynicism this morning, but this current government is now

going to make some pretty big announcements, we're told this week week about their reinvigorated commitment to green issues. What do you make of that? Well, of course, I welcome steps that are being taken, like, for example, the big boost to offshore wind, like, for example, more homes being properly insulated and so on. But I guess my real concern is that we have wasted so much of the last 30 years. You know, many of us have been banging on about this for so long. The government is committed to getting to net zero climate emissions by 2050. 2050 is 30 years away.

You know, Greta Thunberg, the wonderful Swedish activist, said, act like your house is on fire because it is. Going for net zero by 2050 is like dialing 999 and asking for the fire brigade to come in 30 years time we need much faster action much more urgent action and I think that's the real challenge because yes one can welcome individual green actions as they as they happen and I do but they've got to happen so much faster they've got to be much more joined up you can't be saying on the one hand that we're going to get more cars off the road at the same time as putting £27 billion into a new road building scheme, for example. And you can't say that you're serious about the climate and nature crises if at the same time you're promoting a fatally flawed economic model that is fuelling the climate and nature crises,

increasing pandemic risk and also exacerbating inequality. So it's got to be joined up and it's got to be urgent. So would you actually say then that the coronavirus far from taking our minds off this issue has actually galvanized people anew and made us all really think about things? I think it's been an extraordinary time in the sense that on the one hand you can see what governments can do when the political will is there and when they recognise there's an emergency. You know, who would have imagined that a government overnight could be paying the salaries of millions of people, wiping out NHS debt overnight, taking such radical action when they see that it's important to do that. And what we need to do is to galvanise that same degree of urgency when it comes to the climate and nature crises and also to recognise that so many people despite the horror and the sadness of the past months have also many of them been able to appreciate for the first time hearing birdsong for example when it hasn't been drowned

out by airlines over overhead or roads and cars on the roads and they've appreciated perhaps a little bit more time and quiet and we need to hang on to some of the good things that have happened over the past few months, as well as obviously recognising what a traumatic time it's been too. Thank you so much, Caroline. And congratulations again. Caroline Lucas, the Green Party MP for Brighton Pavilion, who was number one in the Women's Hour Our Planet 2020 power list.

I never quite get that in the same order. I say that so often, but I always put bits in different places in the order. Anyway, thank you very much for listening to what was, and it's been a bit of a rarity this year, let's face it, a positive edition of Woman's Hour, which I really enjoyed. And looking at social media, I think you did too.

Also, check in on the emails. I've also got the judges with me as well, so we'll hear more from them in a moment. two, you did two. Also check in on the emails. I've also got the judges with me as well. So we'll hear more from them in a moment. Sian says, no way the government can claim they can't find any female experts to join them at the COP26 leadership team or on the COP26 leadership team now that this list exists. This has been one of your bugbears, Lucy, hasn't it? Yes, and it remains so. We have one woman I think has been appointed to the senior team in the last few days, but that is just not good enough. And yeah, I'd love to share the list with

whoever's putting that senior team together. And also maybe some names from the judging panel, because I think we have a wealth of talent. Maybe, like Emma. So currently you're going to be at COP when it happens which is next year now but you're not a part of the formal British government delegation. That's correct but I will continue like many of the brilliant women on the list that we highlighted today and And sadly, those women that we weren't able to highlight, I will continue to work on the environmental and climate change agenda up until COP26 because it is so important that we are part of that massive event.

Slightly diplomatic answer. Is that fair? I think it's really important that we continue. I appreciate that. Right, this is important from Hills. Good to see the environment being given a huge part in your programme. And I know you said that COP26 should have been taking place this week, but the school kids are taking up the baton with a mock COP26,

beginning with its own YouTube channel this Thursday. They've got students taking part from 144 countries and it promises to be absolutely fantastic. Please mention this is taking place. Well, we have. Pigwich says, I use a tumble dryer as it's much gentler on my back and fingers to pass one item from machine to dryer

than trying to carry washing elsewhere. Please don't forget disability. Thank you for that. Nicola says, fabulous to hear so many women on this year's Women's Hour Power List committed to improving our natural environment, sustainability, improving health and well-being and reducing health inequalities. I enjoyed listening particularly to Yvonne Witter today. Hashtag community champions. Congrats to all, says Nicola. Liz says it would be good to hear more about accessibility to the countryside for the disabled. I'm an avid lover of walking and exploring, but since an accident three years ago, I now rely on wheels rather than legs. I find the efforts to address accessibility piecemeal

and often require localised campaigns and battles even to get a gate changed so that one can be opened and closed from wheels. Yeah, I confess I hadn't, because I'm very privileged, hadn't thought about this. Flo, what do you think about that? It's important, isn't it? It is important, yeah,

because we all want to be able to experience the outdoors. And I actually think as simple as a gate change shouldn't be a huge, huge obstacle. So whoever needs to be able to change the hinges just needs to get on with it so it can be open to everybody. There's presumably so many different gates that are going to need to be changed. Hundreds of thousands, presumably. But nevertheless, it can be done. So why don't they do it? Kate says any criticism of Extinction Rebellion is shooting the messenger.

Their tactics may be questionable at times, but they're an organisation that's put the environment number one on the public agenda. Forget the controversy. We've just over seven years to get to net zero. Zanera, perhaps I'm making an assumption there that Kate is maybe more likely to be your age than mine. But what do you think about what she said there? I think with the list,

it's just so diverse across sectors and different types of actions that it would have been you know a missed opportunity a missed celebration of an area that maybe not everyone agrees with because it's controversial but it's as important to celebrate but i think yeah just just to look at the at the list as a whole and look at the different areas that we're celebrating and to recognize that action is action yeah i mean can i put i'm going to put the other side of that just because i can and we're here um the suggestion that people who support some of their events protests are indeed a bunch of privileged crusties

who can afford to take a day off work or won't get into trouble because they're working for their dad anyway. And that actually is really impacting on the working lives of ordinary people, so-called. Lucy? Well, I mean, you know, if you are a privileged crusty, thank you for using your privilege to speak on behalf of the climate and

nature emergency i think yeah but that day when they stood on the roof of the tube train i mean people were trying to get to work listen i have invested my career in communications and speaking to different parts of um society to try and broaden issue. So I did not like that morning. And I was very vocally opposed to it, as were actually a lot of members of Extinction Rebellion. There are some things that they do, which I don't like. But there are also some things that they do, which I think are fundamental. And I think, you know, thank goodness they're doing it. And it does come back to this sort of critical issue. We want action, We know that we need protests. We know that we need to shift the dial. But then we get a bit clutching our pearls when we don't like the tone of the protest. Is that because we're nervous of change and we don't like change and we don't want to face the truth? And if I look at myself, sometimes that does provoke my reaction if I'm being completely honest yeah well no I think we this is we've been honest this morning and I think that's a good

point yeah and we were really honest in the judging as well actually we had some really like really not sticky conversations but we I think we talked about all of this stuff and that was part of our process but at the of the day, it's a power list and power we realised around nature and climate comes in lots of different forms. And Gail Bradbrook, the co-founder of Extinction Rebellion, who's on the list, she's powerful in this conversation, which is why she's on the list. Yeah, okay. Inevitably, and I don't blame people for this the tumble dryer thing does get people going um well because if you have a family or whatever your circumstances you're going to need probably somewhere what you are somewhere to dry your clothes or some way of doing it

um this listener says we've just bought a tumble dryer oh the horror we're a family of five living in a tiny terraced house with limited outside space. We refused to give in to a dryer for many years and so in winter would take our wet washing to dry at our wonderful local laundrette. But the extra complications caused by Covid have forced our hand and our new tumble dryer with a good energy rating I may add and which takes up more space than we felt we could spare was delivered last week. The guilt was enormous, but already it's had a remarkably positive impact on our lives. And yes, we double spin everything before it goes into the tumbler. And along with the crucial dehumidifier every night, our walls are already noticeably less damp. And I think this listener makes a good point.

Many, many families like us live in cramped conditions with old substandard housing, prone to damp and heat loss, bad for us and our children and bad for the environment. Though we love our house, it would take a major overhaul to bring it up to a more acceptable environmental standard. The government needs support to make the country's existing stock of housing more efficient and livable. In the meantime, a tumble dryer has improved our lives immeasurably. Don't judge anyone who has one. Well, to that listener, I don't think we were and I've certainly got one and I'll be using it later on today. But I think Brenda was really like Brenda Boardman. She was so like even handed, I thought, in what she said and all her research basically never, ever. She advocates against putting the responsibility on low income households.

And she is simultaneously since 1980 or whenever it was, she has has has like ridden this double bicycle fuel poverty addressing fuel poverty and addressing carbon emissions and i think that's like i don't want people to feel guilty about this no i'm brenda did sound absolutely brilliant although like a lot of women on the list or downplays her genius and her part in actually in a no not in a small way in a big way revel revolutionizing the way we live can i just have a quick mention to i know one of the the other women is going to be on the program before christmas but the hedgehog lady yes because i just let's just acknowledge what what that woman does mandy mandy she i mean i think it was mandy so i said I said at the start of the live show that when people nominated or suggested certain people, some of the warmth was just like incredible.

You'd be crying reading the suggestions. And I think Mandy, you know, people in her local community who know her, they feel so strongly about what she does and now i do as well but she yeah she has set up a hedgehog rescue center and we know that this is one of the species that's you know in in decline and she just sort of scooped in scooped up these hedgehogs look i just uh she's rehabilitated yeah 700 hedgehogs in 2020 yeah and we're all going to benefit. That's brilliant. What a lovely Mrs Tiggy Winkle way to end this edition of the Woman's Hour podcast. Lorna tweeted to say

brilliant news. This list has provided so much hope and positivity this morning. Well, that's good because that was our intention. Thanks to the listeners for being so enthusiastic about this Power List 2020. And thanks to Alice and to Emma and to Zanera and to Flo and to Lucy for hanging around this morning and for being very much an important part of the podcast. And to my producer, Anna, who's been through the mill emotionally over the last couple of months but has got this programme out and is now telling me she's going for incredibly.

She's taken a week off. I can't understand the need for that. So that was Anna. Thanks to her and to you. And Woman's Hour is back tomorrow. And I will be talking to the person who's number two in our 2020 power list for Hana on the show tomorrow. BBC Sounds. Music, radio, podcasts. fake. No pregnancy. And the deeper I dig, the more questions I unearth. How long has she been doing this? What does she have to gain from this? From CBC and the BBC World Service, The Con, Caitlin's Baby. It's a long story, settle in. Available now.