Woman's Hour - Women and confidence in the police, Maria Ressa, and the future of the handbag post pandemic

Episode Date: March 17, 2021

The death of Sarah Everard has led to concerns for women's safety in public. Women have been encouraged to put their trust in the police if facing harassment or any kind of jeopardy. But following last Saturday's vigil on Clapham Common, where the Met police were criticised for their response, just how confident can women be in the police? Did their behaviour at that event reveal an institutional misogyny? Emma talks to Susannah Fish, former Chief Constable of Nottinghamshire Police force and Olivia Pinkney, Chief Constable for Hampshire, representing the National Police Chief’s Council.We talk to Maria Ressa who is one of the Philippines most outspoken journalists who was named a Time magazine Person of the year in 2018. She’s a vocal critic of President Rodrigo Duterte’s regime and his deadly war on drugs, his attempts to silence the press and the rise of disinformation and fake news on social media. And we hear from Lucia Savi, the curator of a new handbags exhibition at the V&A museum in London about learn how this fashion accessory - like much else in life - has been impacted by the pandemic and lockdown. Presenter: Emma Barnett Producer: Lisa Jenkinson Studio Engineer: Duncan Hannant

This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK. I'm Natalia Melman-Petrozzella, and from the BBC, this is Extreme Peak Danger. The most beautiful mountain in the world. If you die on the mountain, you stay on the mountain. This is the story of what happened when 11 climbers died on one of the world's deadliest mountains, K2, and of the risks we'll take to feel truly alive. If I tell all the details, you won't believe it anymore. Extreme, peak danger. Listen wherever you get your podcasts.

BBC Sounds. Music, radio, podcasts. Hello, I'm Emma Barnett and welcome to Woman's Hour from BBC Radio 4. Good morning. We had a huge response from you yesterday in answer to the question about what would make you feel safer walking home at night or in the day and of course a conversation prompted by the killing of 33-year-old Sarah Everard. Thank you so much for those messages, some of which I'm going to come back to today, one in particular regarding the culture or the perceived culture in the police force. It is confirmed that the Metropolitan Police,

the force handling the investigation into Sarah's murder, has referred itself seven times to the police watchdog over incidents surrounding the case, one of which concerns a police officer guarding the site of where Sarah Everard's body was found, who's been removed from duty for sharing offensive material on WhatsApp about her kidnap and murder with his colleagues. An action which, if true, the Home Office Minister Victoria Atkins, representing the government, told us on yesterday's programme was absolutely disgraceful. Today, we're talking to one former chief constable and another serving chief constable about what it's like to both serve as a woman in the force,

but also report crimes as women to the police. And I should state what I hope is obvious at this point, which is that no one is stating that poor behaviour is something that is widespread across the police force, nor that all police officers have sexist views, for instance. But what we do want to do today here on Women's Hour is open up the space to talk about what it is like to report something to the police as women, what that process is like, but also not shy away from some of those views and attitudes within the police that have been described by some as toxic. Police, of course, represents the society it serves. So let's have that conversation. Please get involved. 84844. Text will be charged at your standard message rate or on social media. It's at BBC Woman's Hour or email us your view, your experiences through our website. And I'll come to those messages

shortly as i always do also on today's program you will hear from pauline as promised yesterday one of our coronavirus diarists a year on from the prime minister first asking us to stop non-essential travel and contact with others she's had quite the year and you do not want to miss hearing from the fearless mariaessa, one of the Philippines' most outspoken journalists, named a Time magazine person of the year in 2018. She's a vocal critic of President Duterte's regime and his deadly war on drugs. So all that to come. But the death of Sarah Everard has led to concerns for women's safety in public. Women have been encouraged to put their trust in the police if facing harassment or any kind of jeopardy.

But following last Saturday's vigil on Clapham Common where Met Police were criticised for their response and the fact that the Met Police has referred itself seven times to the police watchdog over incidents relating to Sarah Everard's death alone, just how confident can women be? Susanna Fish is the former chief constable of Nottinghamshire Police. I spoke to her earlier this morning. After Saturday's vigil, she said there was institutional misogyny

in the way that the police handled the event. Let's have a listen to what she meant by that. Well, what I mean is that I think there is a mindset in policing and no doubt, you know, there are so many good people in policing. It doesn't mean to say that they're bad. It's just about where their mindset is, where the culture, where the structures, where the processes, how decisions are made and how they think. And it's, it's almost it's unwitting in that sense because no one wants to be well very few people want to be like that and no doubt um current police officers and senior police officers will point to data and all sorts of things that says that's not

the case well actually this is the lived experience of women every day. It has been for years. So whether it's looking at how the police continually treat rape victims, how the criminal justice overall treats rape victims, how they treat domestic violence victims, those subjects of harassment, historic matters about undercover officers, having male officers seeing having sex on duty with women they've met through the course of their their work um as a perk of the job um and indeed my own personal response when i brought in misogyny as a hate crime in nottinghamshire as the first force in the country to do so and the closing of ranks by some of my very senior colleagues, much more so than junior colleagues across the country, to say, no, we don't need

this. You're only doing this because you're a woman. You're only doing this and you're campaigning or you're changing legislation. That's not the role of police officers. The role of police officers is to implement the law. I agree with the latter. Can I read you part of an email we received from one of our listeners who got in touch after I was talking to a Home Office minister yesterday, Victoria Atkins, about this issue, about what's gone on here in this case with the Met and also about the culture potentially within the police that makes it not necessarily always the best place to work as a woman. That's not necessarily for everybody's experience or not necessarily the

best place for women to report crimes to. So a listener got in touch to say, my husband was a police officer for a number of years until he recently quit. From day one on the street, his married, not that it matters, training officer would constantly make all kinds of horrible, sexual and objectifying comments about women he saw from their marked police car, ranging from look at the tits on that to I'd tap that to much worse. My husband would come home every day and shock me with stories of awful, sexist and racist comments people have been making in cars or in the break room. And he told me endless stories about abuses of power and bullying by senior officers. And she goes on. But you get a sense of what she was hearing about from her husband and how he was experiencing life. What do you make of that? I think there is still significant parts of policing where there is a very toxic culture of sexism, of misogyny that objectifies women.

And that, sadly, is one of those examples. I'd like to say that policing has moved on and it has moved on compared to when I joined the police service back in the 80s. However, it hasn't moved as far and as fast as society, I think, requires it to. And quite possibly it also reflects some of those societal changes. For example, the availability of pornography, the issue of online violence, threats of violence, intimidation, and how that then plays out in public. So, you know, society has changed for the better in terms of its approaches to women. But there are also some other dynamics, particularly the online arena and pornography, I think that whilst not new, but much more widely available and accessible. And that sort of like, seems to have failed to be stopped to have matured and moved on on into something that actually is much more respectful in policing what would you do if you were i don't know if this ever did happen to you but what would you do if a male police officer

working alongside you made a comment like that did you ever hear comments like that and how would you respond and one of the bits about my my sort of latter part of my service as a senior officer, you are quite insulated as a senior female officer. So it was much more subtle, I would say, which then if you do challenge, it's, oh, you're really sensitive. Or, oh, you know, but certainly earlier in my service, yes. And you've got a couple of options, really. Either you put up with it and hope it goes away and keep your head down, or you challenge it and that's exhausting. And then you get marginalised and isolated. And that's really tough too. And I've taken both those courses of action. I mean, you've been called all sorts, haven't you, for trying to do some of the things that you did for,

whether it's, as you say, making misogyny a crime, a hate crime, or trying to actually deal with coppers who are not behaving how they should have done. Yeah, in my old force, we started to address officers who thought that having sex on duty was a perk of the job before it was deemed corruption nationally. What do you mean by that? Sorry, working with people when they were undercover or generally?

No, generally. Generally, uniform officers, often response officers who would attend emergency calls, perhaps about domestic violence, but where women, they might have been seen as sexually attractive, but they were certainly seen as available and usually vulnerable women. So maybe with drugs, mental health, alcohol issues, perhaps all of those. And of course, who's going to believe a woman like that as opposed to an upstanding member of the police service with an impeccable record. And actually, well, we sent an officer to prison and dealt with others because of the evidence threshold. We were only able to deal with people

through misconduct proceedings in the force. Sorry, just so I understand that, and I'm sorry if I sound naive even asking this question, but are you saying that police officers would try and meet women through the job, effectively women in vulnerable positions sometimes? Yes. Yes. That is now formally described as a form of corruption and is taken very seriously by policing. Some was knowingly predatory. Others thought this was wonderful. You know, it was like manna from heaven, wasn't it? And so you went through a process of essentially within your own force policing the police yeah and we did and

we we which was incredibly hard hitting including the partner of with her obviously with her consent of the officer who went to prison explaining what had happened and the impact on her and the impact on policing and how she saw that. And we made everyone, police officer and member of police staff, our civilian employees, read and sign, if you like, terms of engagement, making it crystal clear what was and what wasn't acceptable. So what I would say is there are so many elements of policing, both in a very tactical and also in a really strategic,

structural sense, many of whom have been tackled by the police service, but yet they come up time and time and time again. Having been where you've been in terms of your career and now being on the other side of the police, how do you feel as a woman reporting crime to the police? I would think very carefully about it. Crime against property, not an issue. Crime against myself, I would probably struggle for how I would be judged. I think people would find it, you know, that story that you shared extraordinary,

but I think they would find it extraordinary what you've just said as a former police officer, a former very senior police officer, that you wouldn't feel comfortable reporting a crime against yourself. I think there's two issues going on. One is, I think for me, it's not that I think some officers wouldn't be sensitive. Some would be. Some would be less so. And it's that feeling of sort of being judged. I also know in terms of conviction rates and the challenges of going through the criminal justice system as a woman,

it's thankless, you know, endless repeated humiliation, telling your story over and over again, worrying whether you're ever going to be believed, putting yourself through that repeatedly, as well as the shame of what's happened to you, that, you know, victim blaming has become so endemic, you know, it's all that bit about, it shouldn't really have happened. What did I do? And all that questioning, I think, and trying to then explain yourself and justify yourself just feels to me to be incredibly difficult.

The former Chief Constable of Nottinghamshire Police Force, Susanna Fish, joining me now, Olivia Pinkney, Chief Constable for Hampshire, representing the National Police Chiefs Council. Olivia, I thought I'd just start by asking to get your reaction to that. We've just heard a former Chief Constable wouldn't feel comfortable, probably struggle to report a crime against herself to the police. So thank you. And genuinely, thank you for the invitation and the opportunity to come today. In your introduction, you talked about opening up the space to talk about all of these things which arise from the horrific murder of Sarah. And that light and space and that sober reflection is really important.

And your audience, and I'm usually one of them usually on catch up but it it matters and to have the opportunity today to talk about all of this and to bring a view uh into it I am genuinely grateful for and listening to Sue's interview there you know I used to work with Sue um uh in fact we you know I we spoke briefly last night when I heard that she was on the on the program too and it was lovely to catch up with her we We hadn't spoken for many years. I don't recognise, I don't recognise today the organisation, the service to the public, our culture within our organisation.

I just don't recognise it at all in the way that she's describing. Now that isn't to say, of course I recognise there are incidents we're not preff. And one of the brilliance of this country is that we have a free and independent media. One of the other brilliant things about this country is when things go wrong, our police service calls it out, deals with it and is transparent. And the fact that Victoria Atkins absolutely disgraceful comment yesterday. I agree with her. I agree with the examples that Sue's just described. If that's happened, it's disgusting.

And there is no place for it in policing. Absolutely no place. But the reason, the good reason that we're able to talk about that and know about these things is because it is called out. It is dealt with. It is taken seriously. People are removed from service in policing. And it is transparent. You know, that is taken seriously. People are removed from service in policing and it is transparent.

You know, that is the reality. And we need to actually recognise that is a really good place for British police service to be. But of course, sorry, I was just going to say, but of course, those things are happening in the first place. And, you know, Susanna has been left with that view, having served in the police force. So what can you say to our listeners to give them faith and trust in reporting anything that may happen to them? So I can. Two things. One is really you. I really want women who have suffered. Let's hope people aren't suffering the most violent. But I know, we know Sarah's death, but we also know Jess Phillips every year reads out all the names of other women who have died and have been killed, frankly, at the hands of men. I realise that. That is not okay. It's not okay for women to be suffering domestic abuse. It's not only women, but it is by far the majority of women who suffer that. And when women have the courage to come forward to anyone, including the police, then they will be listened,

they will be heard, they will be supported. I know that happens because I know that we follow up every case. Yes, there are examples, and I'm sure that we get stuff wrong. But if we get it wrong, and I hear about it, we'll fix it. But genuinely, I encourage women to come to us. This police service is the best in the country for a reason. And we can listen

and we can deal and we can get people to court and we can get rapists and offenders to court. There are lots of other ways we support people. The other thing I'd say to answer your question

is come and work with us. You know, one of the brilliant opportunities right now is you've got 20,000 new police officers joining the UK. We've been shrinking for over a decade. We are now growing. Come and be part of it. Now, most recently, you know, in the last year, 40 percent of new entrants to policing are women. If we particularly look at people who want to come and join and be detectives straight away, that's nearly two thirds of those applicants are women. This is a really brilliant career for women. And if you want to join a role

where you are making a difference, you know, policing only operates where society is broken. That is what we do. That's, you know, that is our role. But you can come and you can work with us and help make those very dark days a bit better. And you can also work your way to anyone because that's our job. And I'm fiercely proud of the men and women I work alongside.

They are all sickened to their core for what we've all seen and heard and the genuine emotion and debate that it has arisen. That is how it should be. But what we mustn't do is let that fade away. It is not new that women are suffering this crime. And we are continuing that conversation, of course, on Women's Hour. Olivia Pinkney, thank you very much for your time and experience this morning. Chief Constable for Hampshire, representing the National Police Chiefs' Council. Let's open it back up to you. Do get in touch with us on 84844.

Many messages coming in, opening up that space to talk. But I have to say quite a large reaction already to what you just heard from Susanna Fish about whether she would go and report. But of course, you've just also heard from someone who's serving right now. So please do get in touch. Today, we're just on from a year

since the Prime Minister first asked us to stop essential travel and contact with others. That's just a week before full national lockdown coming on a year to that next week. At a similar time, Women's Hour started recording a series of coronavirus diaries Corona diaries as we call them in order to document the experiences of women around

the UK and one of the first women we spoke to was Pauline who was living alone in Morecambe and recovering from what she thought was Covid. Since we spoke to her she's moved, she's moved back to Kendal where she's originally from and she's just had her AstraZeneca vaccine. I asked her how it does it feel to think back to the situation she was in last year when this all began. I never got as far as lockdown. I was working in a job that involved a lot of interface with other people all around Cumbria and Lancashire and on the 17th of March I remember feeling oh I've got a bit of a cough. I'm sure it's not what they're talking about on the news you know it must just be tree pollen come early, something like that.

And on the following day, I couldn't get out of bed. I was coughing, I was spluttering and I just knew that there was something very wrong. Well, let's remind ourselves what you said to us at the time. You were living alone in Morecambe and you were recovering from what you've just described. What you thought was what you came to think was COVID-19. Let's have a listen. I did have rather a big problem about five days into the illness when I was feeling absolutely dreadful. I hadn't known I was going to be ill, so I hadn't stocked up for it.

And I was more or less completely out of fresh veg and bread and I've only lived here for six seven months I knew absolutely nobody that I could ask my nearest friend with transport was 25 miles away I didn't want to trail her up here so I ended up emailing the local MP and also I emailed Age UK who rang me and offered some sort of help they weren't sure what they were going to do because at that stage they were still setting everything up yeah but by the time they'd rang me back my landlord had been in touch about something completely different and i just told him and he immediately said he would go and do some shopping for me he lives 40 miles away i didn't want to trail him all this way but he insisted but other than that i would have been absolutely stranded because i've had nothing through the door um, none of these notes that would have been advised to put through from neighbours,

nothing from the councillor anywhere. And like I say, I got to the landlord stepping in, I don't know, where are they? How does it feel hearing that, Eero? It takes me right back to it. It really does. I'm quite a logical person usually, but sat there thinking, what can I do? Because what I didn't mention there is there weren't even any slots for food deliveries at that stage. So without my landlord at the time stepping in and helping, he was a real star. And you had a diagnosis this year, haven't you? I have, yes. To be honest, I never, well, I've certainly never got back to my normal even now. The cough went on for months. I had eyesight problems.

I still don't taste all my food, so I can taste sweet foods and spicy foods, but the bits in between are lost on me. But yes, I was diagnosed with chronic fatigue syndrome. And do you, I mean, the thing is here, because you got this, you know, you got ill early on before we had a testing system and all of that in place. You've got no idea, knowing whether this could be linked to that, whether that was COVID and whether this and these symptoms could be what's become known as long COVID. Exactly. And I've asked my GP twice for some help and been told that there's no help available in this area. So again, you're back to what can I do? You know, I'm trying vitamins and mineral supplements. I've tried pacing myself, but it's all experimentation and all on your own without any help. You've managed to move. Last July, I was offered a Housing Association property up in Kendal, which I took because I desperately needed to be near my friends.

And at that time, my son was home. One of my sons was home and he was living up here. So that was really the saving grace, I think. So that's a big change for you. And it sounds like it's been a positive change. And I was going to ask how much you've been able to see your family, because I know that one of your sons lives abroad. Yes, both sons live abroad. It's just that one came over for an extended period. So he was back home and that was lovely. I went over to see my other son in Dubai in October when we were still allowed to fly.

That was wonderful. And I got to see my grandson. it was only the second time I've ever seen him and this time he was a toddler so it was you know there's more there than the baby in arms and but the coming back the return journey on the airline was horrific just because most of the other passengers were not wearing face masks and when I complained and the staff approached them the crew approached them they basically refused I was absolutely petrified of catching it again right but I mean in terms of your year though it sounds like it's been a roller coaster a lot of people will will say similar for different reasons but you know there you are having going through these symptoms having a long tale of something certainly and and then moving house then trying to see family and then of course back like everyone else into into lockdown what's this part of lockdown been like for you I mean a

lot of people now can't believe we're approaching a year of this. I've got to be honest and say this lockdown has been much busier and I've had a lot more social contact, but only through the internet. One of the things I had to learn when both sons were overseas was how to use Zoom. Wasn't easy, but I finally got there. there well you're doing very well because this is how this interview is being conducted yes exactly and i realized that this could be used in other ways as well as talking to family

so i saw i started studying via the internet um done some workers education authority courses in spanish and creative writing um recently just started a very gentle yoga one with those but more importantly i saw a lady posting on the site for over 50s talking about starting a book club after restrictions had finished. So I emailed her and suggested that we do it now via Zoom. Good on you. We set about doing, but we ended up starting a coffee morning each Tuesday morning at 10.30 for women over over 50 and it's just gone down brilliant we've had some really interesting conversations where women who we've never met before have just come on to zoom onto the coffee morning broke into tears because they were so lonely because they were missing their families whoever we finally

started the book club got around to it after the coffee we got around to it afterwards that sounds fantastic i mean obviously my only gripe with it being a tuesday morning at 10 30 is you know there's this program called woman's hour that goes out at 10 o'clock but but pauline you're an absolute zoom queen and star. I hope you keep doing what you're doing. And thank you for talking to us again. I've enjoyed it. Thank you very much for having me, Emma.

Brilliant, Pauline there. Still to come, Maria Ressa, one of the Philippines' most outspoken journalists. Stay with us for that. And if you've missed anything you want to catch up, you can catch up on Woman's Hour on BBC Sounds at any time. But in lockdown, handbags have become almost obsolete. Many of us have not strayed far from home. Is it time to dust them off? Sales of luxury handbags fell 19% globally, according to Euromonitor International. In the UK, it was even

more severe. Has lockdown perhaps changed what we'll want from our handbags? Lucia Savi is curator of the V&A's Bags Inside Out exhibition, showcasing more than 300 bags used by both men and women from the 16th century to today. I caught up with Lucia last week and I started by asking her about one of the favourite things I have read about handbags during lockdown by a fashion reporter for the Financial Times, that she said she had furloughed her bags during lockdown. It's absolutely true. I started to go out using more pockets. The only few times you were allowed to go out, you would carry very few things with you. And the handbags started to be left in our wardrobe.

And I did read a lot of reports as well, especially during the first lockdown, about the handbag is dead. It's almost like an obituary of the accessory. But I think it's not really true. And I think we have started looking at bags during 2020 in a different way as well. We're going to, and we've seen a little glimpse again. And the handbags will give us a hope of that different life that is waiting for us outside. Because of course, they mean so much. And they are such a connection to the outside

world. But what you just said really is really fascinating about us using pockets more. And I wonder how much then do we understand the handbag in terms of showing off to others? You know, if it's not just needing it to carry things. It's about our lack of social life at the moment, isn't it? What is really fascinating is that during 2020, we have witnessed really a shift of what kind of symbolic meaning bags represent. Because, of course, nowadays, not going out,

you can't really show off your beautiful handbags. But nowadays, with this idea that maybe we'll go out again, bags have become maybe a symbol of hope, of optimism, of the day we will go out and socialise again. So it's really, there is a layering of meaning there. And I found it very fascinating because throughout history, you do see bags connected to women's and people's lives, and their significance and their use changed throughout history. And I think 2020 will be remembered, of course, for what we passed through. But bags as well will be a memory of that, definitely.

One of my favourite pictures from last year on social media was a notice attached to a bin which said, 2020, the year my bin went out more than me, because the idea of us needing handbags, needing smart shoes, all of those things thrown into question. Your exhibition put together for the V&A on handbags had an opening of two days, I think is right? Yeah, the exhibition Bags Inside Out at the V&A, was supposed to open in April 2020, but of course, because of the first lockdown,

we had to postpone it. And then we managed to open it again in December 2020, but we managed to have it open to the public only for two days before we had to, of course, close the museum again. So it was really a shame. A real shame. It will be still there in situ when we reopen and get back to, as you say, going out and cultural life and all those other things.

In your exhibition, though, you have a bag from the war years. And I wonder what we could take from that, because we have also experienced the rise of the war analogy during this time. Definitely. We have a handbag by the maker and designer H. Walden Cole. This bag was made during the war and during the war, everybody, children, men, women, had to carry gas masks with them at all times. So initially people carry gas masks in cardboard boxes, tin boxes and even canvas bags. But then, of course, as the year passed, manufacturers became more clever about the design. And they designed this beautiful leather handbag, top handle handbag, with at the bottom a round compartment to house a very bulky gas mask.

So it's really a stark reminder of difficult times, of course, of a time of uncertainty and a time where we adapt and fashion adapt to the danger of a poisoned gas attack. And really, although the exhibition was curated before the pandemic, this object that I selected before the pandemic came to a new light. Thinking about the current times and us had to carry masks, but also hand sanitiser, protective equipment. Now, during Covid time. We need more functional bags, we need more. I was going to say the idea of the handbag as a window on history is very interesting. And they are still one of the few items people pass from generation to generation. You have a personal example, don't you? Yes, one of my favourite bags belonged to my grandmother. And it's quite simple leather Italian handbag

and I don't think I'm alone in having in my wardrobe an object from from family people especially when thinking about handbags that they're made to last that are well made are passed on from generation to generation but also because handbags remind us very much of other people. They have a power of containing memories physically and also symbolically. And I think with the pandemic as well, people want to go back to objects that are maybe a bit nostalgic, but also make them feel comfortable. So I hope I could use my grandmother's handbag again. It's not very practical in COVID times. I was going to say, what's it like? Describe it for us.

It's a top handle, navy blue leather handbag with a zip, very practical, and many pockets inside. The problem is it's a top handle, so it's not really practical nowadays in COVID times. So I might just maybe add a strap to it or update it. I cannot fit a laptop in it, but I still feel like somehow it's nice to take it out for a walk.

It hasn't been out for a walk that bad for a while. We need to air them. I was also talking to a friend who was saying she'd reopened one of her handbags. And, you know, the treasure that is inside a handbag that you have left there and may not have seen for a while. Also, the debris, it's safe to say, or maybe that's just me, whether it's crumpled up tissues, half eaten, packs of chewing gum, whatever is in there. Maybe a fiver, you know. They have inside all sorts of memories of our everyday life. That's what's so fascinating about bags.

They are everyday objects. They are functional, but also very symbolic. Some of them, they get very expensive as well. We are ready to spend a bit more cash on bags. And they're a really fascinating object because as well, they're very sculptural. So although they don't go out, some people during the pandemic have used them almost as sculpture to decorate their home because they're so beautiful. Well, some people are thinking, really? I don't think I would be putting my battered handbag

hanging on the wall. But others really do invest in this. In fact, sale of luxury handbags have fallen, but certain luxury brands have benefited during the pandemic, particularly in China with the auctions of vintage bags and all of that. But looking to the future, how do you think handbags and the design will change? Because we're already seeing reports in some of the papers around exactly what you were saying. They're a symbol of hope and bright colours, for instance. I'm not surprised about the bright colours. Bags are really shortcut for how we're feeling. Spring hopefully is coming soon. People want to be feeling optimistic, they're vaccine. And so bags are almost like an accent for an outfit, even if you're wearing maybe a very plain outfit with a colourful bag, you can really signal to

the world and to yourself the psychology and what you hope for. But also, I think bags will be maybe a bit bigger and quite functional because when we go out nowadays, we go out less, but somehow we carry more. The few days that you're allowed to go to work, you need to bring more, sometimes even a laptop, more equipment. And more people are cycling or walking to work, So they need bigger bags to carry all of this. So I think that we'll see more cross-body bags, a bit more practical, full of pockets. So really a mirror of the times they're living in. Lucia Savi and Vic says,

a half-nibbled slice of cucumber, strange but not essential, as to the treasure found in handbags. And others getting in touch about the hope that they get back to using them very soon. Now, Maria Mareza is one of the Philippines' most outspoken journalists. The co-founder of the independent news site Rappler, named a Time magazine Person of the Year in 2018,

she's a vocal critic of President Duterte's regime and his deadly war on drugs. She's also been outspoken about the rise of disinformation and attempts to silence the press. Last's also been outspoken about the rise of disinformation and attempts to silence the press. Last summer, Maria and a colleague were found guilty of cyber libel in a case that has been widely viewed as politically motivated. They are appealing but face up to six years in prison.

And now a new film, A Thousand Cuts, featuring her battle for truth and democracy, is being shown at the Human Rights Watch Festival. Maria joins us from Manila. Welcome to the programme. You've got outstanding cases against you. Just tell us what is still outstanding and how that fight is. It's kind of my life right now. In less than two years, the Philippine government filed 10 arrest warrants, so 10 criminal cases against me. So I'm out on bail on 10 criminal charges.

And what you mentioned that I was convicted, along with a former colleague of mine last summer, for a crime that didn't exist when the story we published was set up eight years ago. So the rest of them, another bucket is tax evasion, five charges of tax evasion in order to charge me that way. They essentially reclassified our company into a dealer in securities, like a stock brokerage. We're obviously not. And then the last one is the mother case. I lump it as securities fraud. Essentially, they claim that we are being controlled by foreigners. Right. Also not true. And I will fight all of these in court and hopefully win. President Duterte has called stories published by your site as fake news. Last month, he tweeted on the way to court again. It's a war of attrition, but we have limited energy.

Nothing will stop us from doing our jobs. Clear pattern for me. Ten arrest warrants in less than two years. Hashtag. Let's come back to freedom of the press and fake information in a minute. Fake news. Let's hear a clip of you interviewing Duterte back in 2015 when he was mayor. Can you please? You are the man of the hour. People wanted to know whether you're running for president, vice president, yes, no. Where are you? I told you to avoid me. I'm telling the Filipino people, huag ako, it's going to be bloody. So no qualms about killing killers?

Yes, of course. I must admit that I have killed. Three months early on, of course. I must admit that I have killed. Three months early on, I killed about three people. That is now the president talking about having killed three people, not things we're used to hearing in this country. What was going through your mind when you were doing that interview? It was in October of 2015, and he hadn't yet said that he was going to run, but he had support precisely because he says things like that, right? Shock a little bit, but also novelty. What a bad thing, right? Because now it is the norm. It's the norm. So he did deliver what he promised, violence and fear. Are you scared? Because your mission, you say,

is to hold this government to account. I think you learn to deal with it. You know, it comes and goes. I think since I was very young, I've thought about not letting your mind stop you from doing what you need to do. So I've come up with this thing. I say you have to embrace your fear. So that's kind of the way as a manager, I deal with it. I tell our folks, you know, whatever it is you're most afraid of, you touch it, you hold it and imagine it. And then if that happens, what would you do? And we actually workflow worst case scenarios, and then we drill it. Because you're still going as a site, we should say. Absolutely. And going strong, right?

That's I think the other part is that we just did not give up. We're not voluntarily giving up our rights. But do you have any sense of the ordinary, you know, the ordinary Philippine person, whether they are believing some of what you're writing or whether they're believing the lies about you, that you're foreign funded, for instance, How do you know where they're coming out? I don't think you really do know, but I think that's not necessarily Duterte or any administration. That's not in their control. It's in the distribution platforms that news travels on, which is social media. And the biggest problem we all face right now is that social media has

become a behavior modification system that is used by power and money. And some of that is attacking me. For example, September last year, Facebook took down an influence operation from China, attacking me. I'm just a journalist, right? So this is happening. We're being insidiously manipulated. Journalists are no longer the gatekeepers. It's not within our control. And any power we thought we had is vestigial. Amal Clooney is your lawyer. How hopeful are you that she's going to get you off?

And where are you in terms of what you think is going to happen to you and your case? Because you are a person at the heart of this. There's a lot of bigger things you're fighting for. And that's the reason why I won't give up. And I feel like this time matters. I think we look at next year, we're headed towards presidential elections. Next year will determine what the next decade

will look like for democracy in the Philippines. So that's the first. The second is, I'm hoping, fingers crossed, that men and women in the Philippine judiciary will stick to the spirit of the law, right? That it will not be politically colored in any way. I could be naive. I'm told I'm naive, but Amal Clooney and our international legal team are there. In case, I am also, I told you I'm not naive. I look and I think about what it's like to go to prison. And what I do today will determine whether or not I go to prison.

And I will be a good journalist today. Maria Ressa, thank you for talking to us. That's all for today's Woman's Hour. Thank you so much for your time. Join us again for the next one. Are you fed up with the news? Next slide, please. The skewer.

The skewer. The skewer. The news chopped and channeled. Welcome to the repair shop. In the repair shop today, Matt needs help with a cherished possession. What have you brought us? A National Health Service. Oh dear.

It's everything you need to know. Like you've never heard it before. Tank flat, boss walk, jam, nitty gritty, you're listening to the Chief Medical Officer Chris Whitty. By John Holmes. They're now British fish. After fish. They're now British fish. After fish.

The Skewer. Skewer. Skewer. Correlated chicken. Listen now on BBC Sounds. Look your head out, it's Sarah. It's Sarah. I'm as bad as you.

I went back to the river. I'm Sarah Treleaven, and for over a year, I've been working on one of the most complex stories I've ever covered. There was somebody out there who was faking pregnancies. I started, like, warning everybody. Every doula that I know. It was fake. No pregnancy.

And the deeper I dig, the more questions I unearth. How long has she been doing this? What does she have to gain from this? From CBC and the BBC World Service, The Con, Caitlin's Baby. It's a long story. Settle in. Available now.