Woman's Hour - Women in Star Wars; Pelvic Floor; The Real Derry Girls;

Episode Date: December 27, 2019

The Star Wars saga, which started in 1977, has come to an end with the release of Episode 9 - The Rise of Skywalker. How has the representation of women changed, throughout the generations, in one of the biggest sci-fi franchises of all time? Anna Smith is a film critic and host of the feminist film podcast Girls on Film. Victoria Upton is a member of the Norwich Star Wars Fan Club. Gabriella Geisinger is the deputy movies editor at Digital Spy.Is your pelvic floor too tight? What are the signs, what are the causes and what exercises can you do to help? Emma speaks to Maggie Blott, a consultant obstetrician at the Royal Free Hospital and Marta Kinsella, pelvic health and rehabilitation physiotherapist. For a second time, we visit Northern Ireland's second city Londonderry - the setting for the hit TV Channel 4 comedy. Reporter, Kathleen Carragher meets four ‘real life’ teenage 'Derry Girls'. They talked about a range of issues from changes to the law on abortion and equal marriage to why Nadine Coyle’s presence in the jungle on 'I’m A Celebrity' made the hearts of Derry’s teenagers swell with pride. Torrie, Sarah and Mollie all from St Mary's College in Derry and Ellee Dean is from the North West Regional College.Having to leave a child's bedside when they're being cared for in hospital can be a huge wrench. To help reduce the separation anxiety, a third of neonatal units in the UK are now using an app that helps parents stay in touch with their premature babies 24 hours a day. Doctors and nurses can send photos and video updates to parents when they can't be with their baby in hospital. So far, around five thousand families have used the service. Katharine Da Costa is a reporter for BBC South.Presenter: Emma Barnett Producer: Olivia CopeInterviewed Guest: Victoria Upton Interviewed Guest: Gabriella Geisinger Interviewed Guest: Anna Smith Interviewed Guest: Maggie Blott Interviewed Guest: Marta Kinsella Reporter: Kathleen Carragher Interviewed Guest: Katharine Da Costa

This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK. I'm Natalia Melman-Petrozzella, and from the BBC, this is Extreme Peak Danger. The most beautiful mountain in the world. If you die on the mountain, you stay on the mountain. This is the story of what happened when 11 climbers died on one of the world's deadliest mountains, K2, and of the risks we'll take to feel truly alive. If I tell all the details, you won't believe it anymore. Extreme, peak danger. Listen wherever you get your podcasts.

BBC Sounds. Music, radio, podcasts. Hello and welcome to Friday's edition of the Woman's Hour podcast with me, Emma Barnett. Now the Christmas cinema battle is on. In one corner, Little Women and the other, Star Wars, The Rise of Skywalker. One is expressly targeted at women and the other used to be seen as one for the boys. But since the Star Wars saga began in 1977, how has the representation of women changed in one of the biggest sci-fi franchises of all time and why? Anna Smith is a film critic and host of the feminist film podcast Girls on Film. Victoria Upton is a member of the Norwich Star Wars fan club and Gabriella Geisinger is the deputy movies editor at Digital Spy. Welcome to all of you. Anna, if I start with you and ask,

has Star Wars come a long way in terms of female characters and perhaps appeal to female cinema goers? I think so. It's the case sometimes of two step forwards and one step back. I think we've always had kind of strong women in command characters obviously Princess Leia General Leia is a strong female character but at the same time she was kind of objectified and subjected to sexual harassment actually in Return of the Jedi now what was it about that bikini and that whole look that makes you say that well it was more about actually her interactions and also in Empire Strikes Back with Harrison Ford's character Han Solo that she's basically telling him to stop and no and actually you know stop flirting with me and ends up submitting and kissing him so to me I think that was quite problematic and obviously

I'm viewing it through a modern post-MeToo lens but it's kind of interesting that I don't think you would see that in Star Wars now and I think the The Last Jedi in 2017 was much more progressive and a much more exciting example of military women working together, having conversations with each other, not just being the love interest and being far more than that. Is that how you see this, Gabriella, or do you think there's still a long way to go? No, I mean, you go to any protest and there are pictures with Carrie Fisher's face being held up by countless protesters because she has become such an icon for resistance and rebellion and striving to fight against forces of oppression. But that's definitely something that she's become.

Let's just say at this point, for people who don't like Star Wars or perhaps never have engaged with it, I mean, that's the thing. This is a whole battle, isn't it, against adversity, the whole hope against horror. That's the bigger backdrop. Absolutely. And I think that's one of the things that makes the franchise so successful and touch so many people over time, is that's something that every generation must battle,

is that oppression, whatever they're facing. And I think Star Wars really taps into that feeling. And I would definitely agree, though, that the contemporary saga have done much better by their female characters, especially when you talk about strong military women. You have General Holdo played by Laura Dern, who's also in Little Women.

So you see, you know, it's interesting to see these faces as they kind of come around in these different franchises. Let's bring in Superfan, if I'm allowed to call you that, Victoria, at this point. Good morning. Good morning. Why are you so into this franchise? I like Star Wars.

I think it's something I can relate to as like a child, but it's also something now that my children have grown up with as well. And I think that it is bringing the younger audience in. I mean, there's more women characters in there for them to look up to, perhaps. The films have progressed. I mean, all little girls like princesses, and this is an alternative princess for younger girls, than the Disney princesses.

And I think that Leah is quite a strong character. And as the films have gone on, and we've mentioned before, she has all sort of, we've evolved with her. We've seen her grow. Do you dress up as characters? Yes, I dress up as a Mandalorian and I also dress up as Nine Nun,

which is a male character, but it is great fun. Okay, I'm just trying to get an image there of what your get up is i'm not sure everyone here in the studio are you are you a dresser up with gabriella i'm not no okay and what about you victoria and victoria you said excuse me anna um i'm more likely to dress up as catwoman or something i'm not really a star wars dresser you're not okay fine i just i just like to get a vision here of what's going on i mean there is out there though some issue isn't there around whether it's gone too far for the diehard hardcore fans of the film, which probably they self-define like that, don't they, Gabriella? They're in that

sort of stereotypical sci-fi, you know, white blokes who think it's gone too feminist. What would you say to them? I think one of the great things about Star Wars is it takes place in a galaxy totally alien to ours and it's got a place for everybody. And I think that's, when you look at the characters that inhabit the world of Star Wars, they are so varied. You've got human-looking people

and you've got aliens and octopuses and Mandalorian. You've got this whole wide array of characters. So it's very easy to find a place for yourself. And I think Oscar Isaac, who plays Poe Dameron, has said that one of the things that's great about Star Wars is there is an ambiguity in there. And that allows people to find themselves. So I think there's always been a space for people

that don't fit into that white male category. And now it's just becoming a little more explicit, which I think is a wonderful thing. But some people don't think that, do they, Anna? Yes, you do see on Twitter people saying, hey, it's only a movie when someone makes a feminist point about Star Wars. But this is a movie that they themselves are very invested in and get quite cross about. And I think having a woman at the centre of the story now, Ray, played by Daisy Ridley, is a tremendous step forward and one that actually probably little boys don't think anything

different of. And that's what we want to see see and that's what we were talking about on girls on film is thinking of the new generations and you know a great example but people who are sort of entrenched in it and unfortunately a minority of the super fans are getting cross about feminism gone mad but just because i was talking there about what's on at the films you know i went to see little women yesterday and it's safe to say there were not a lot of guys in the cinema watching it. What about the idea that there should be or can still be films that are targeted at one gender? Because Star Wars was always seen as a preserve of men. I think that's perfectly fine. I think there's room for everything.

But what we want generally in cinema is greater equality all around. We want more choices for women and for men. But also, I think, as Gabriella suggests, I think men and women have always enjoyed Star Wars and there are a lot of female fans and now they're just being better served. Okay, but in terms of then the idea that everything needs to appeal to everyone,

because it doesn't work in the sense of there's no uproar from women if there's a really strong guy character in Little Women, is there? I think that's just because of the society we live in. We live in a patriarchal society. And so women are expected to bend and find places for themselves in other media that are made for men. And it hasn't been the other way around yet. And I think now we're starting to see that. But I will also say that at Digital Spy, you know, our readers tend to be more skewed toward that demographic because we write a lot about Star Wars and Marvel movies. And that's the audience you typically associate with those. But then when we write pieces that appeal to or give voice to LGBTQ fans and women, we get such a great feedback from that because those fans are out there they just need to be uh lifted up

and given that voice there has been some hate hasn't there some online hate directed towards those who are involved in these latest incarnations of the film especially kelly marie tran suffered quite a lot of um uh harassment online and she she played just she plays uh rose tico who had quite a major role in the last jedi she was uh was buddied up with Finn and they went on a bunch of adventures. And she really, for me, Rose really embodies what Star Wars is about. It's about love and hope in the face of despair and keeping that. And she says, you know, we're not going to win fighting what we hate, but by saving what we love. I think that is so intrinsic to Star Wars.

And she really embodied that. But she got a lot of hate. Yeah, because she's a woman of colour. And what was that hate? Was it about the fact that she was in the film or the role? I think, you know, it's tricky to say because so many fans will say, oh, I didn't like the character because she's a Mary Sue, which was a lot of the criticism Ray had in the beginning as well.

But I think those comments are thin veils for feelings of misogyny and racism that so many people may unconsciously have. Let's bring Victoria back in at this point. I mean, when you think of being a keen member of Norwich Star Wars fan club, when you think of the new incarnations of this film and those characters and then some of them receiving hate, what would you say to that?

I think every character's there for a reason and every character is there. it brings something to it. And if you take one of the characters out, I think you're going to lose their dynamics. And in terms of what we were just saying there about the younger generation, in terms of what Anna was saying about little boys now seeing the female characters as normal,

do you think that has already become the case? I think so. I think if you think of New Hope, there was only like the main character is Leia and now go forwards 2017 to The Last Jedi, there are several characters, whether it be Captain Phasma on the dark side or you've still got Leia and as you say,

Vice Admiral Hado and everything. You've got some strong characters on both sides. And I think that it's reflecting society and how society has changed over the years. Do you dress up as the same characters as your children or do you have clearly demarked roles? No, no. Obviously, we can dress up as what characters we want.

My daughter actually dresses up as Leah or an officer, so she's both a character with the dark side and the light side. And my other daughter, she dresses up as a young biker scout. Okay, good to know. In terms of what Victoria's saying there about every character playing a role, if we just zoom out a bit on sci-fi as a whole, Anna, do you think that other areas of sci-fi need to get with the programme, a bit like Star Wars? Definitely. I mean, it's all been quite male dominated. We've had some

wonderful examples like Ripley and Aliens, who are an exception to that rule. But I am quite encouraged about the future. We've also seen like the Marvel series, if we include kind of comic book things, we've got the Black Widow film coming up. And I think generally the studios and the filmmakers are more conscious of the need to have better representation right across coming up. And I think generally the studios and the filmmakers are more conscious of the need to have better representation right across the board. And that includes more female characters. And then that brings you to the question, though, is it all just about marketing? That's part of it. But, you know, money talks. And that's why we urge people to go and see films centering around women and made by women. Money talks. Final word from you.

Yeah, it does. But I also think it's cyclical, right? So if you invest in diverse storytelling behind the camera and in front of the camera, people will come to those movies. So if the studios invest in telling those stories, then people will come see them. Obviously, I have to end by saying may the force be with you over this Christmas period. Exactly. Anna Smith, Victoria Upton, Gabriella Geisinger, thank you to all of you. Now, a more personal question for you. Is your pelvic floor feeling too tight? And I'm talking more specifically at this point to our female listeners. We will get onto the male experience as well. But we hear a lot more these days about loose pelvic floors and incontinence, especially post-childbirth. But we hear a lot less about problems in the opposite direction,

where women feel like they can't bring their pelvic floor down. To discuss this feeling, which can be tough to articulate, and what perhaps you can do to help yourself, or if you know someone else who's having this, I'm joined by Marta Kinsella, pelvic health and rehabilitation physiotherapist, and Dr Maggie Blott, a consultant obstetrician at the Royal Free Hospital. Marsha if I come to you first good morning. Good morning hello. What is a too tight pelvic floor if you were to describe it for someone who may be listening who feel like this

could be talking to them? Sure well the pelvic floor muscles to start with they're they're at the front right at the front of the pubic bone and they go all the way back and they hold up the pelvic orion. So it's very important to do the pelvic floor. But sometimes you have a hypertonic pelvic floor, which is the state of the muscles in the pelvic floor. And they become a little bit too tense and sometimes a little bit weak with a little bit of a less range and you can call it like an overactive pelvic floor or high tone non-relaxing pelvic floor if you can kind of think of it as a different muscle in the body something like the shoulder it can become a little bit too weak or too tight and sometimes a little it needs a little bit of stretching or lengthening or releasing so and it's the stage

of the pelvic floor i was just going to say and it's that feeling that perhaps you you can't bring it down absolutely that could be one of the triggers or one of the symptoms where you become a little bit aware of the pelvic floor and one of those triggers could be that the pelvic floor is is quite active quite tense or you could have different symptoms such as like lower back pain or hip pain, and that can affect the heightened awareness of the pelvic floor as well. And in your line of work as a physiotherapist in this area, you do what if you meet people who are having this particular problem? Absolutely. So it's all down to pelvic health, and we've got pelvic health physiotherapists and we'll

take an objective and a thorough assessment of the patient and then what we'll see is whether the pelvic floor is weak or it needs a little bit of lengthening or stretching before we do some of the squeezing exercises and what we do in the assessment is it's a multifactorial approach so it's not just the pelvic floor. That's just a symptom more often than not. And we'll look at the manual therapy, the internal and external muscles, and then we'll see what the triggers are, the symptoms and the problems. And then we can go from there. So we sometimes we can go down the education, the stretch route sometimes the breath work is the first protocol that we do because some of

the patients might be presenting with like a prolonged position and or one of the triggers could be anything from IBS to lower back pain to hip pain and we try and reduce those muscles or relax those muscles before we do any of the manual therapy. Let's just bring in Dr. Block here. The idea that you can't bring this down, we've heard a lot more from the NHS as well, there's an NHS app around breathing and making sure you do your, especially your pelvic exercises before you have a baby because of it becoming perhaps too slack or too loose afterwards. I'm probably not using any of the right terminology, but the idea that it's too tense is something that perhaps people maybe haven't been able to articulate. Yes, good morning. This too tight pelvic floor is a rather complex condition, which is poorly understood, I think, both by professionals and women,

and will present in many different ways the poorly functioning, the weak pelvic floor we've known about for a long time. And of course, physiotherapy is vital in terms of before, during and after pregnancy and helping women maintain the strength of their pelvic floor to prevent later conditions like urinary incontinence and prolapse. A too tight pelvic floor would most often present to a gynaecologist in terms of psychosexual problems like vaginismus, difficulty with intercourse, difficulty being able to relax to allow penetration, all those things are very real. And I think a knowledge of how the pelvic floor works, I think women really don't understand what their pelvic floor looks like or how it works.

I googled an image of it before I came on today to actually have a look at this set of muscles. Because you don't even, I mean, I was literally thinking of it as a shelf within me. But it is a set of muscles that are complex. It is. It's a complex set of muscles. And their function really is to support the organs above the pelvic floor. And they maintain continence in that way.

So if your bladder muscle drops or slips down, that is what starts the process of stressing continence in that way. So if your bladder muscle drops or slips down, that is what starts the process of stress incontinence. But is it right to say in the UK, because it's much more well documented in France, that once you've had, especially after having a baby, you don't just get a load of physio or a load of gynecological support, do you? No, you don't. It's not available on the NHS? Correct. so in france i think i'm right in saying that most women who've had a baby will have five or six sessions with a physiotherapist immediately after a woman's health physiotherapist somebody's expert in in teaching women about pelvic health and it's a real cost-saving initiative because of course those

women who understand can can um strengthen their pelvic floor will go on to have few far fewer problems in later life in the uk we do have a physiotherapy service a women's health physiotherapy service but it's it's very sparse it's we could do much better by um bringing in much more many more physiotherapists in the postnatal period it's like a weird secret that you have to figure out that people like you, Marta, exist. And more often than not, people have to see people like yourself privately, if they can at all, because of what we've just heard about the NHS provision. But to get back to the actual issue, Marta, it can be incredibly upsetting for people,

especially as we're talking about women here, I know men can be affected too, that they can't bring this down it's sort of hypertension absolutely um so yeah the pelvic floor it's it's very complex you have a third of women that have experienced some sort of problem in the pelvic floor in their life and but you're looking at around 25 percent of women will only come to our doors because it's the awareness. It's the taboo subject for both men and women, and they don't necessarily have the language to talk about it. But certainly, it's not just the language, it's the education as well. Some of these girls, men and women, they don't actually know how they're feeling the pelvic floor, whether it's

normal or not. And as Dr. Maggie Blott said, that it can present itself in very different ways. Sometimes it could be anything from, you know, a fall in the coccyx when you're younger or sexual trauma, sexual dysfunction can be the primary drivers. obviously of your postnatal conditions as well but um with those prolonged holdings from anything from your endometriosis your vaginismus because you have a lot of inflammation and pain around these conditions you can have the symptom of a high tone pelvic floor and and i was just going to say marcia away from seeing experts like yourself physios that that can sometimes be offered on the nh, but more often than not don't seem to be, away from the physical manipulation, so up is one of the one of the visualisation techniques I've heard. But with pelvic floor being the opposite, do you have to imagine the lift going

down? Or are there any tips for anyone who's listening right now in this busy Christmas period who could help themselves relax while listening to the radio? Absolutely. At the end of the day, I think it's imperative that you go to see women's health physio or pelvic health physio if you're feeling any of these symptoms or any of these triggers. But sure, breathing is a fantastic tool we use in clinic. It can obviously increase your happy hormone, your blood pressure goes down and that anxiety, that flight response where your pelvic floor can be overactive and it can help relax it. And I certainly, I ask some of the men and the women to imagine that their pelvic floor are almost on the penthouse lift. And as you inhale, you almost want the pelvic floor to drop down to that ground floor. And then you can imagine you're just about to start to pee.

So you've got that inhale. As you inhale, the pelvic floor drop and you slowly relax the pelvic floor out and then you can exhale excuse me and i tend to tend to ask anything from 90 seconds to two minutes to do that twice three times a day but you just want to make sure that you obviously relax down but you don't want to push or bear down so you're just relaxing and opening up the pelvic floor and exhaling out then so I tend to incorporate that into practice. Marta can say I'm doing it as we speak. Dr Maggie Blott final word to you. Any form of relaxation is time well spent. The only thing I would say if women develop new symptoms

that they've not had before that they should really go and see their doctor first and check out they've got no other serious conditions before going straight down for physiotherapy. Yes, to perhaps get that referral route as you often do. Exactly. With new symptoms. Right, well, we'll all take a deep breath together during this period, which often can be very busy and stressful on a serious note and people running around and doing all sorts of things.

Thank you to both of you. Now, don't forget, if you ever miss a live programme, you can catch up by downloading the free BBC Sounds app and search for Woman's Hour. You may have missed our Boxing Day programme, which features some of the winning women from 2019. On that programme, you'll hear some wisdom from the writer Edna O'Brien, Khadija Mella,

who won the Magnolia Cup at Goodwood and is now the Sunday Times Young Sportswoman of the Year, and the disability activist Sinead Burke. And for a video featuring all these wonderful women together, head over to the Woman's Hour Instagram page. And it is that time of the year, well, nearly, where we vow to be better versions of ourselves. On Monday the 30th here at Woman's Hour,

we want to talk to you about habits. How do you build healthy habits, as well as breathing, of course, that you actually enjoy? How do you undo habits that have been bugging you perhaps forever? Phone lines will be open from eight o'clock on Monday morning. The number that you need, 03700 100 444. That's 03700 100 444. But you can email your experience now via the Woman's Hour website. And if like me, you've never managed, despite those New Year's resolutions, to stop eating bread, go to bed earlier and get into unbelievable shape, Heather McKee, a behavioural change specialist,

is going to be on hand with evidence-based strategies and advice. I think I need her in my life day to day. Now, to our second visit to Northern Ireland's second city, Londonderry, which was the setting for the hit TV Channel 4 comedy Derry Girls. On Tuesday, we heard from a group of real Derry girls, the women who grew up there during the 90s when the series is set. They reflected on life there during the past year. Of course, the murder of the young journalist Lyra McKee by dissident Republicans

and also the ongoing Brexit process, which deeply concerns this border community. Today, it is time to hear from the teenage Derry girls. They talk about a range of issues, from changes to the law on abortion and equal marriage, to why Nadine Coyle's presence in the jungle on I'm a Celebrity made the hearts of the Derry's teens swell with pride. Kathleen Carragher spoke to Tori, Sarah and Molly,

all from St Mary's College in Derry, and Ellie Dean from the Northwest Regional College. I'm Tori and I'm 17. I'm Molly and I'm 18. I'm Ellie and I'm 20. I'm Sarah and I'm 20. I'm Sarah and I'm 17. So tell me, what do you make as a TV hit, the Derry Girls programme? Oh, it's brilliant.

It's just so Derry. You know what I mean? Like, you know, it's not like it's put on or anything and you wouldn't look at it and be like, oh no, that's not the way we go on. No, it's definitely not the way we go on. It's just so relatable. It's just, you're always sitting watching it

and you're like I can relate to that completely no sometimes it can be over exaggerated but that's just like us like as in

like Derry Derry exaggerates everything so do you like living in Derry? I love living in Derry particularly because of the amount of

events it's on you know there's something different music events food events like nearly every weekend but at the same time Derry does still have a lot of growing to do I think and it could definitely develop more to become a more peaceful place but all in all I love

living in Derry. Do you think that Derry is a less divided city between the two communities these days? Compared to years ago it definitely has improved and come a long way but i guess there still is sometimes that divide between i think we have a a lot further to go whatever area it is and area you're in you know if that's a protestant community or a catholic community you know the catholic schools the catholic uniforms if there's red white and blue painted on the street you know it's a protestant community or know, there's marches and it just sometimes that like marching season and that bonfire season makes both communities feel so separate

and I think we should just get rid of all of that. I don't think there should be any tricolours or any green, white and blue painted anywhere, no flags. We need to move forward as one community. Obviously this year Derry did make the headlines for the wrong reasons with the death of Lara McKee. What did you all feel about that? It was terrible. I remember

my mum coming in that morning and asking me straight away did you hear about what happened in Craigan last night but never did I think that someone was actually killed in Craigan that night and the fact that it was such a young person and that she wasn't even involved in the conflict she was just standing by was absolutely heartbreaking. I'm from, like, I live in Craigan and I, like, witnessed what happened and we had the vigil for Lira the day after and seeing the amount of people that came and supported and showed

respect for Ekenna, just showed that there was people that needed to maintain peace. Do you remember the words of the priest at her funeral, Father McGill, that it was terrible that it would take the death of one young person to bring them together in the church, the politicians, and why could they not show

some political leadership and get together? But that's completely right. The fact that our political leaders are only willing to come together to show prayers and to show respect for that person, but they should be taking action as well. They should be in Stormont talking about ways to further Northern Ireland and to bring about more peace here. And although we're not in that era anymore, that doesn't mean that there aren't still threats and that there aren't still troubles in Northern Ireland today because that is a testament that there definitely are. It almost holds us back to when the troubles had started.

I didn't even exist then, but I felt like I was back in that time. Do you go across the border very often? I'm from Loughrard, right on the border, of course. So I'd be down every couple of days visiting my daddy and my granny. No, not at all, because all my family love and dare I. So I wouldn't be down over the border at all. Unless it's for petrol, we go down we go across the border for petrol because it's cheaper

The dreaded B word, Brexit does that follow the debate at all about Brexit? That's all you ever hear is Brexit. Every time I turn on that TV Brexit, Brexit The thing that concerns me is a majority of girls in my class are from Donegal It's going to affect them and it's going to affect their education

because they do come up to the tech and down again. It's going to affect everyone, people's jobs as well from Donegal who work up in Derry or Belfast or whatever, it's going to affect them. Definitely, I think the most concerning thing about it would probably be the hard border or the soft border. Just being from Donegal and travelling down there so often to see my family, if there were a border put in place I feel like it would be like a physical connection between us as well and I think it would make them feel a lot

further away and then of course there's the question about transport and do buses like you said taking people up for their education do they get to pass you know without getting checked and then having to bring your passport with you in the morning just to get to work it's it's crazy to think that we're taking such a huge step back if we do get a hard border you know where grannies and grandas would always talk about I remember the checkpoints being there on the the Lifford and Strabane bridge but you never actually thought that you could see that yourself one day. So I just feel as like taking a massive step back, whereas we should be progressing and we should be making it a lot more accessible for people from the South to get an education and to work in the North.

Another big thing that happened this year was social change. Westminster legislated and has introduced same-sex marriage and abortion rights. Do you follow that debate at all i don't necessarily follow it but um i'm very happy with the change because it just it shows that we can progress as a community i'm the lgbt officer of the college and you know i was so happy then when we got the change of equal marriage i mean it was one of the things we've been fighting for for the past 50 years and we I mean, it was one of the things we'd been fighting for for the past 50 years, and we finally got where we wanted to be.

You know, we were all free. It's just what it just felt like. And now we have the right to get married to who we want to get married to. Abortion, obviously, is it something that would be discussed at school at all? In GCSE RE, you talk about it and you debate about it, and there was a lot of debate in the class.

Like, oh, some people agree with it, some people don't agree with it but then like that's your opinion like you can't force it on people. I think regardless of what your your stance is on abortion there were women calling out for it there were women that wanted it to be made safer because at the end of the day if someone wants something bad enough you know they'll go overseas to get it or they could get a backstreet abortion and things like that can cause serious health problems and I think it's just important that it opened up that discussion I think it's definitely a step in the right direction that we're at least talking about it regardless of what your stance is on it

you know and if somebody wants to get an abortion will that let them do it it's not going to affect your life I just don't think it's a big well it's a big deal for some people but i mean like it's just it's your body your life that's why i see it you know now one teenager who's made news headlines this year is greta thunberg have you interested in her yeah 100 i think everyone our age is kind of following her at the minute just because she's so much younger than me and she is only two years yeah but she's out there doing these amazing things travel in the world and you just know that when we're older our kids are going to be reading about her in the history books and for one person a teenager of all people to make such an impact on global change

because no one else was having that conversation none of the grown-ups were having that conversation everywhere you looked on social media, it's always been focused on her. And for her to be able to make that change, like you said, it's been amazing for so long. Would you make any changes

yourselves in your day-to-day lives then in terms of trying to help climate change? One of the documentaries I've seen most recently was one on wet wipes and flushing them

down the toilet. And this documentary was asking people, please don't flush them down the toilet and this documentary was you know asking people please don't flush them down the toilet please dispose of them in the bins and I that's not really something I would think about normally you know you just wash your face before you go to bed just never really think about it so it's programs like that that would bring wee small changes about the house and I think it's the small changes that are most important you always hear people saying

things like oh but, me making one difference isn't going to impact on a global scale. But if everyone in the world did something small each day, it would build up and it would definitely make a massive difference. Next year, 2020, it's going to be a big anniversary in Derry for Dana. Do you know who I mean?

This is my first time hearing this name. Oh, me too. Hi. I was thinking about getting a phone on them. Do you want who I mean? This is my first time hearing this name. Oh, me too. Hi. I was thinking about getting a phone on them. Do you want to get your phones out? So tap in Dana, all kinds of everything. To win the Eurovision Song Contest at 18 is an unbelievable achievement

and I'm very surprised that I've never heard about her before because that's unreal. Just know that Naeama, she was in Eurovision because my mamma has mentioned to me once. But I don't think Dana is a look-up to us for our age. I think it's more Nadine Coyle these days, you know. So tell me about Nadine Coyle then, why she's such a big hit. Because she's just a derry girl.

She's just an ordinary derry girl who's on everybody in the UK's TV screen. We're just amazed by her. She's representing us very well. I'm glad her accent hasn't gone. And I mind that week that she was introduced on the show. There was this clip going around Twitter of her saying the word flower. And everyone was like, why is she saying flower? Like, I don't know, I was sitting in the house watching the video

going flower oh that's right flower that's right she just comes across as a very kind person and the fact that she's in there with a Jenner is unbelievable

like someone from Derry is on a TV show with a Jenner a Kardashian like that's unbelievable although she said she's terrified of everything

everything she's done she's been like winning or like getting good things so she's been really good. She is just a proper Derry girl. The way she talks and everything, it's just the way we go on. She would be like a role model.

She would be. She's proven that you don't have to change for anybody. I don't know what is what you may hire. It's aesthetic from the floor below. And then it drops and catches like fire. So just finally, tell me, what are you looking forward to in 2020? Going on to university and studying, so I think that's a big thing for me to look forward to. Saying goodbye to everybody in St Mary's as well and moving along,

so it's kind of a bittersweet moment, but it's this new chapter in our life, so we're all very excited for it. Becoming famous. No, I'm joking. I haven't had a year here in Derry yet before I go to university don't know where I'm planning to go to I'm really

I'm thinking about going away do new things as well start new things you know new challenges do well in my course that's what I'm focused on

I just hope this Brexit crack turns out well Kathleen Garraga there with Tori, Sarah, Molly and Ellie Having to leave a child's bedside when they're being cared for in hospital is a huge wrench It can be even more dramatic and difficult to do when that child is just a baby and a premature one at that

To help reduce the separation anxiety a third of neonatal units in the UK are now using an app that helps parents stay in touch with their premature babies 24 hours a day. Doctors and nurses can send photos and video updates to parents when they can't be with their baby in hospital. So far, around 5,000 families have used the service. Catherine da Costa has been looking into it. And Maggie Blott, Dr. Maggie Blott, who was with us just before, has stayed with us in the studio,

of course, as a consultant obstetrician who can give some experience to this and how parents may or may not be able to cope at this time. Catherine, if I come to you first, at the moment, 66 neonatal units have this system. What's the feedback been? Well, yes, that's's right i've heard from several mothers that they feel this overwhelming sense of guilt at having to leave their baby in hospital they say you know it's hard enough being a new mum but then having to leave a child overnight can be really difficult and it can make it harder for some parents to bond with their baby this app allows them to be sent pictures and

videos 24 hours a day and that gives parents a real sense of reassurance that their baby's in good hands and is doing well. Now I met Victoria Redido. She and her husband had triplets at the Princess Anne Hospital in Southampton in August. Now the boys were born nine weeks early and the youngest to Oscar, the smallest, he was one pound and nine ounces, less than a loaf of bread. Now two of them were able to go home five weeks later but Oscar had to spend an extra month at the unit. This is what Victoria told me about how the app helped her. I remember getting the first photo and I was up at three in the morning expressing and so you're awake all the time and you're looking at your phone and then an email comes through and you get this lovely picture and it usually has a message

saying hi mommy hi daddy having a lovely evening you have to leave your babies and you feel so guilty leaving them and to know that they're in such safe hands and with people who care enough to take a picture and just send it to you to make you feel good is amazing. Why is this technology needed then because of course people have their own phones these days don't they? Yeah well I mean lots of reasons why parents can't be with their baby. Victoria was able to stay in family accommodation on the hospital site, but she wasn't able to be there at the bedside overnight. Other parents might have older children to care for at home. I also heard a story about one mother who had heart problems during birth and she was under the care of a cardiac team while her baby was in the intensive care neonatal unit.

So they just couldn't physically be together. And it's not just parents because grandparents and extended family might not be able to get to the unit. And they want to know that everything's OK. So basically staff can take photos and videos. As you heard there, sometimes they attach little messages and it might be the baby's having a bottle or, you you know it's having its first bath or being taken off the ventilator for the first time just little updates and the idea really is to help reduce separation anxiety and many feel it helps boost mental well-being not just for the mother but for the whole family and it's got the potential to help many families because we know around 60,000 babies,

that's about one in every 13, are born prematurely every year in the UK. Now, I was also speaking to Fiona Lawson. She's the matron in charge of the intensive care neonatal services at the Princess Anne Hospital. We've always felt that that moment where the family have to leave us for whatever reason, and there's lots of reasons that might happen, that that is a wrench for families. And

we do all we can to prepare them for that. But to be able to soften that blow by sending them videos, sending them photos, little messages, is really lovely for us to do. Let's bring in Dr Maggie Bloss at this point. How important do you think this service could be? I think this is a very important service. Separation of a mother from her baby at birth is one of the worst things that can happen. A sick baby being taken up to the neonatal unit and the mother being left down on the labour ward. And I've seen the faces of many, many women as their babies are taken away from them. So anything that's going to bring them closer will improve outcome for mum and, I'm sure, for the baby, better bonding, better breastfeeding, better family bonding as well.

So I think this is a very important initiative. I suppose also, though, it brings to mind that you're so busy in what you're doing and you and your teams, the idea that you're then also going to have to take photos and send these things. I mean, should it just be seen as part of care? This is definitely part of care. And we know now that the evidence is very strong in support of this type of initiative. In the old days, we used to take a little Polaroid picture that used to come back down from the neonatal unit. And that would be

all that the mother had to look at. So anything now that is relevant and keep women and fathers in touch with their baby much more often is very important. To come back to you Catherine, in terms of this being funded and how likely it is to be picked up by other hospitals, what do we know? Well it's not an NHS wide app, individual hospital trusts can choose to sign up to this and it's paid for through sponsorship so hospital charities would agree to fund it and it costs roughly three to five thousand pounds a year per unit and it means that it's then free for families to use now as you say it's already live in 66 units another 25 are expected to launch it over the coming weeks and i should say that the difference between just using

your personal mobile and sending it on your personal email, this is a secure app that's used on a hospital iPad. Pictures are encrypted, so they're not stored on the device. They're all stored on a remote server. And there are systems built in to improve security. So staff have to scan a barcode at the baby's bedside, and it means that the pictures will only be sent to that family and it is supposed to be quick and easy for staff to use so it's not taking up lots of time now so far it's helped 5 000 families and the the company behind it hope to be in nearly half of all units early in the new year and dr maggie block would you say to to parents now just as any advice as well about how

to kind of mentally cope with being separated from your baby anyone who's listening now what would you say? I would say get as much information as you can don't feel guilty about it when babies are separated from their mothers mothers often do feel a sense of guilt that they've done something that caused their baby to end up in the neonatal unit. And of course, that's not true. So a lot of reassurance about that and just trying to keep in touch as much as possible. It's just such a different experience, I imagine, from the one that you see on the films of bringing your baby home. Yes. And the other thing is leaving. So going home from hospital and leaving your baby behind is another very, very traumatic event for women. That's why I think being able to keep in touch like this would be a very good initiative.

Yes. Well, thank you very much. That was Catherine da Costa, who's been looking into it for us here at Woman's Hour. Of course, if you've had experience, do let us know at BBC Woman's Hour. Perhaps you've used this technology. We'd really like to hear your story. And you can get in touch, if you prefer, by email on the Woman's Hour website. A big response to our discussion around the changes of the female roles within Star Wars. Anna has got in touch to say, I love Star Wars,

but saying Han Solo sexually harassed Leia, oh my. Jabba the Hutt did, yes, but two people are allowed to be mutually attracted and she objectified him too and spoke her mind from their very first meeting. So thank you for that one, Anna. Another one here is what you failed to mention at Woman's Hour is the merchandise for Star Wars and Marvel. Often the female characters are left out of the T-shirts and the lunchboxes, etc. Well, thank you very much for flagging that to us. More of those comments on Twitter as well. We also had a response to our discussion around pelvic floor.

Often when we talk about this, it's about it being too loose and urinary incontinence. But what about if it's too tight and it goes the other way? Lots of you out there feeling like you've had this experience and like it's some kind of secret. An anonymous message here. I'm so glad you're talking about this today. When I finally consulted a specialist physio privately. She told me my pelvic floor was in constant spasm. I'm on the road to recovery, but nearly 30 years of bladder pain and cystitis and constant apparent infections are now fading. I used a pelvic wand to relax my muscles. I suppose the big point here is if you feel like this is something you can relate to, even if you don't

know all of the symptoms, it's very hard to articulate. Do go and talk to a doctor. You're not imagining it. Something can be done. Join me tomorrow for Weekend Woman's Hour, where you'll be able to hear from Edna O'Brien, who's one of our winners of the year and joins us to discuss how winning the David Cohen Prize in her 89th year feels. As a week of ritual and traditions draw to a close, we explore the psychology behind those traditions and why it feels so comforting to do the same things year in, year out, and why it's actually very disturbing if you change anything. And after 100 years of women being allowed to practice law, we discuss just how much progress has been made and what's left to achieve. Cherie Booth QC and a host of female lawyers join us. I started like warning everybody. Every doula that I know. It was fake. No pregnancy.

And the deeper I dig, the more questions I unearth. How long has she been doing this? What does she have to gain from this? From CBC

and the BBC World Service, The Con, Caitlin's Baby. It's a long story, settle in. Available now.