Woman's Hour - Women of colour and gardening, Children, fake news and anxiety, Exercise at home

Episode Date: March 28, 2020

For women of colour, planting is becoming a popular way to establish ownership and celebrate cultural heritage. Aimée Grant Cumberbatch, founder of Grown, a gardening club for women of colour, and Flo Headlam, professional gardener and BBC Two’s Gardeners’ World’s first black presenter discuss.Ten organisations across the UK including Rape Crisis and End Violence Against Women have issued a joint statement about the impact Covid-19 could have on the lives of women and children. Women's Aid, Lucy Hadley on what action they would like to see taken.Dr Camilla Pang was diagnosed with Autism Spectrum Disorder at the age of eight. Now aged 26, and with a PhD in biochemistry, she has used her specialist scientific knowledge to identify what it really means to be human in her new book, 'Explaining Humans'.Why do we choose the clothes we do? In her new book, ‘Dress Your Best Life’, the American fashion psychologist Dawnn Karen explains how our clothing is the ‘connective tissue’ between the physical and emotional. How can parents help their children navigate the constant stream of information about Covid-19 online? Sonia Livingstone, professor of social psychology at the London School of Economics and an expert in digital literacy in children, and GP Dr Radha Modgil discuss. How is Covid-19 affecting regular Woman's Hour listeners? We hear from Mercy Haruna.Exercising when you're isolated at home. Fitness instructor Rosemary Mallace of Over Fifty Fitness and Professor Janet Lord, an expert in muscle health and immunity from the University of Birmingham, about why keeping moving is particularly important as you get older, and what you can do to exercise at home.Presenter: Jenni Murray Producer: Dianne McGregor

This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK. I'm Natalia Melman-Petrozzella, and from the BBC, this is Extreme Peak Danger. The most beautiful mountain in the world. If you die on the mountain, you stay on the mountain. This is the story of what happened when 11 climbers died on one of the world's deadliest mountains, K2, and of the risks we'll take to feel truly alive. If I tell all the details, you won't believe it anymore. Extreme. Peak danger. Listen wherever you get your podcasts.

BBC Sounds. Music, radio, podcasts. Good afternoon and welcome to Weekend Woman's Hour. In today's programme, the inspiring Dr Camilla Pang, whose diagnosis of autism spectrum disorder happened when she was eight. She's now 26, has a PhD in biochemistry and she's the author of Explaining Humans. Dawn Caron is a fashion psychologist. How does she explain why we wear what we wear? And I hope it's not still pyjamas at four o'clock in the afternoon. In this difficult first week of full confinement to home,

how to help children deal with anxiety and the fake news they may encounter online it's a good opportunity to get out to the garden but how do women of colour manage when they're a minority among the gardening fraternity we've been told we must get some exercise with some examples of what you can do at home if you're over 50 and need to improve muscle power and your immune system. It's come as no surprise that it's predicted there will be a rise in the number of incidents of domestic violence as so many of us are now forced to remain within four walls. China and Italy have shown significant increases, with one Chinese province saying reporting had increased threefold.

On Monday, we found that 10 organisations across the UK, including Rape Crisis and End Violence Against Women, had issued a joint statement. Jane spoke to Lucy Hadley, the campaigns and policy manager for Women's Aid. What are they demanding from the government? We want to see the government put women and children experiencing domestic abuse and other forms of violence against women and girls central in the response to COVID-19. It's a really challenging and difficult time for everyone as your programme has covered. But we know for women and children experiencing domestic abuse, home is not a place

of safety. And the experience of being in enforced isolation with an abuser at this time of, you know, we're seeing increased economic stress, tension and anxiety for everyone, for people living with domestic abuse. That's a really serious concern. And we're very worried about the safety and access to support for women and children experiencing domestic abuse. Can we deal with the practicalities then? In terms of access to services, we're all being encouraged to stay at home. It's going to be very difficult to make a call or contact an organisation who can help because you're going to be at home and your abuser could be there as well. That's right. It's a really big concern. We want to send a clear message that support and help is out there. It is available. The National Domestic Abuse helpline operates 24 7

but how can you access it if you can't make a call there are other forms of support that are available so women's aid hosts a live chat support service which provides online based support which which some women tell us they find easier and safer to do if the perpetrator is close by. If you're in immediate danger, of course, the response is always to ring 999 and the police are there and they're there to protect you. There's a range of different ways that you can access support from domestic abuse services, both locally and nationally. Many are adapting their ways of working during this challenge to provide more remote and online forms of support too. So support is absolutely out there, but we really recognise this is a very scary time.

We know the Chancellor, for example, has made a couple of public pronouncements about huge amounts of taxpayers' money being pumped into all kinds of initiatives and schemes. Are you actually saying that you feel that your particular area has been missed? Is that what you're worried about? We're very concerned about that at the moment. We know that demand for domestic abuse services already outstripped supply. 64% of referrals to refuges in England between 2018 and 2019 were declined. And if we see, you know, even further demand from the impacts of COVID-19 for help and support with domestic abuse, we're really worried our services aren't going to be able to

sustain that, particularly as many are small, they're delivered by charities, they have largely women-only workforces who are going to be hit by the larger caring burden over the coming months. It's really good that the government has categorised domestic abuse frontline workers as key workers during this time so they can access childcare for their children. But absolutely, we need to see that financial injection of support from the government now. Right, okay. How much money are you calling for and where will it go? We need to see funding for services to adapt to remote working, so investment in technology, which many of our services don't currently have. We also need to look at what the demand for their help looks like in the coming weeks and months and make an estimate on what kind of additional resources they're going to need. But to put this in comparison, the Canadian government recently announced 50 million for refuges and sexual assault centres.

So I think, you know, we need to see the government take quick steps to ensure this life-saving sector is sustainable. We talked to Amber Rudd, who was so-called war cabinet was entirely male. Would you agree that she was onto something there? I think that's absolutely right. If we don't have women at the decision making table, we're not going to understand and make decisions based on the impacts the virus is having specifically on them. We know that domestic abuse is not in any way restricted to one part of our society, is it? There is a temptation to see it as being something that happens perhaps in poorer families, but that simply isn't true, is it? We need to make that absolutely clear. That's exactly right. Domestic abuse affects all of us and women from every social class and every

walk of life. We should say, of course, there are indeed some male victims of domestic violence. That's right. And whilst everyone can experience controlling and coercive behaviour and domestic abuse, we do see that those who are from particularly marginalised groups face the biggest barriers to support, so women with insecure immigration status, disabled women, black and minoritised women. So we need to send a clear message that, you know, domestic abuse is unacceptable because you're self-isolating,

you know, and it's a time of stress for everyone. That doesn't mean abuse is acceptable. That needs to be a very clear message. We also need to send clear signals to people about where they can access support. And then we need to see the government act to ensure those particularly vulnerable and marginalised can access support. And, you know, we're seeing some announcements about how the homelessness community are going to be supported. But we need to see women and children escaping domestic abuse and fearing for their lives as central within that. One listener has said on Twitter that we should also mention parents who are victims of violence inflicted on them by their children.

That is also something that unfortunately happens. A tweet here from a listener who says, I'm a frontline refuge worker. We've been designated key workers by the government, as you say, and I'm continuing to commute into London for my job. But we desperately need funding for alternative options for women. Alternative options, what could they or should they be, Lucy? We need some clear action to ensure that that self safe self-contained accommodation can be available for women and children like i said we see we've seen those kind of announcements about about the rough sleeping population and how they're going to be supported we know women and children are more likely to be in temporary accommodation in bnbs

and in hotels um in unsuitable, unsafe hostels. We need to ensure that there's suitable and safe self-contained provision for women and children that may need to self-isolate because of the virus. But it's really important to make clear that refuge services are not just a bed, they're not just a roof over someone's head. They're specialist support services that enable and empower women and children to cope and recover from their experiences and give them that wraparound holistic support they need to cope with the experience of domestic abuse. So just simply saying, you know, we turn hotels into additional refuges, that's not going to work unless you've got the support staff there that make it a refuge and a place of safety. Of course and we should also say that there is no doubt that people at the top of government, I don't suppose any of them have slept more than

three or four hours for the last fortnight, there will be people listening who are really pretty impressed by the efforts that the government has made. Many people I'm sure are impressed. It's an incredibly challenging time for the machinery of government to be able to respond to every vulnerable group that's going to be impacted by this pandemic. We just really need to ensure that this doesn't lead to preventable deaths from domestic abuse and doesn't lead to the escalation and increased physical and emotional harm to women and children. Lucy Hadley and she told us that there has as yet been no response from the government and the organisations will be following up next week with further requests for action. Now Camilla Pang was eight when she was diagnosed

with autism spectrum disorder and she struggled to understand the world around her well she's now 26 and is dr camilla pang she has a phd in biochemistry her new book explaining humans what science can teach us about life love and relationships is an attempt to take us inside her head, a place where what are known as social norms can be hard to fathom, as she explained to Jane. In terms of me feeling a little bit like an alien, I say a little bit, I mean completely like an alien, you just don't fit, as if you've been plopped in the middle of nowhere, you're like, it doesn't feel right.

I was very young, to the point where I was probably four or five, really, and that's when I really felt it. I was very frustrated as a child because one of the misconceptions about people with autism, they can't express themselves. But I think actually it's hard because it's almost like everything's boiling underneath the surface. But to have the skills to communicate right now takes a lot of work, takes a lot of processing. Imagine if you didn't have any filters, imagine if you didn't have any outlet but you felt it all inside, wouldn't you end up banging your head against the wall? So I think a lot of people

with autism have this innate bubbling underneath the surface. In terms of having a formal diagnosis I was eight and this was actually something that was mainly for my mum, my family and my teachers, that they knew what was going on based on the research at that time and the books, so that they knew how to help me best. My mum never really told me that I was autistic. She never used a label because she knew that I'd be indifferent to it. I'd be like, all right and unaffected because I'm still gonna carry on being me yes would it be fair to say that you retreated into a cardboard box or you just spent time in a cardboard box um so yeah so when we

moved house um there was a massive cardboard box I loved. I made a home in a cardboard box, and happily so. The feeling of enclosure in a symmetric, confined space is just fantastic, especially as it's an environment that is almost like this is my own world, and you see it and you're in it, and it's just absolutely lovely. It's almost like an isolated system that you have control over, apart from your mum feeding biscuits. Yeah, I was going to say, she did find a did find a way to. Yeah I made a cat flap. How long did you keep the cardboard box for? I think when I had my new room but it was quite hard to weigh me off it I absolutely loved it I

think I used it as a den my mum was like you can still use it but this is your room you sleep in here you sleep in your normal bed but you can still go and go in it whenever you want and I think having that freedom her accepting me yeah she likes comic books let's let her go on with it your mum does sound absolutely brilliant she's fantastic is is what she did the right way to be with a child who has autism yeah she nailed it and she read books but she didn't do it to the letter. She did it by knowing her own child and having no judgements as to whether her child is sleeping in a cardboard box or feels the need to entertain herself for four hours by pushing a wheelbarrow around the garden. She's like, well, if Minnie's happy, I'm happy.

And if she's safe safe then that's great for example um i feel it's accepting what the child likes and she could be doing something she could be playing with barbies brilliant wouldn't that be ideal my daughter plays with barbies but no i absolutely loved pushing a wheelbarrow around the garden there's no other reason just because and i think it's having a lack of judgment and open-mindedness but then calling them in as if there's no social preconceptions of what she's doing. And I think she nailed that. Do you know why you went to boarding school? Yes, so I think there's two main reasons.

I think the first that comes to mind is the fact that I needed routine. I like the structure, I like the smaller classes and the ability to have a mentor. But when it came to the boarding element of it, I absolutely hated commuting. I still don't like it to this day because why would you want to leave your home comfort to an uncertain sensory overload of social nuances? and when I found out that my bus driver in question um he smoked and he smelt I was like that was it for you I was like I'm right I'm not going on that and mum's like you need to go to school and so we so over time I went to school I absolutely loved it when it came to learning um because I made these models in my head describing human behaviour and also when you learn science itself and also maths,

and when I see something that didn't quite match, I thought if I knew a theory that was beyond what I've been taught or I had my own different interpretation of it, I found that actually really hard. And it was hard to get through as a teacher to be like, normally it's like this. And I'm like, yeah, but why isn't it like this? And they're like, because it's like this. And I'm like, no why isn't it like this and they're like but it's like this and I'm like

no I've done my analysis so I think from a teacher point of view to break it down to its discrete fundamental um principles step by step really helped and I think what boarding school was useful for is that everything was spoon-fed. You eat at a certain time, you exercise at a certain time, everything was allocated. But actually reminiscing of that makes me realise how much I need that as an adult, because as much as we, oh, you want to make time to do painting in the evenings,

but me, I'm like, am I hungry? It's 3pm, I feel like I should be hungry, but I'm not. And sometimes you don't know what you need and i think that's one of the hardest parts of which i do miss still from school is people telling me what i need when and why yes because your senses are all over the place you it's hard to capture what what you need and why you might be cold but not realize that you need to put a jacket on. Now you will know that autism is a spectrum that encompasses all sorts of different people. Yes. You are a highly intelligent young woman. Thanks. Well you what you are and there are many many people with autism who have extraordinary challenges. Yeah

they do and this is something that I have been very much aware of. So I'm not here to trivialise mental health. No. I'm here to expose that actually we need mental health support in the right ways so that we can reveal these hidden treasures that are just so beautiful and essential to human evolution. So, yes, there are struggles. This is why I'm speaking for those who I can translate

between both sides. And I think that's a very powerful place to be because I know how hard it is to the point where how autism is portrayed in the media, but I also know how to look to the other side. And I want to be able to raise awareness of how amazing it can be, how autism is portrayed in the media, but I also know how to look to the other side. And I want to be able to raise awareness of how amazing it can be, but also how hard it can be. I mean, I would rather, I was going to swear that, but on the radio, so I'm not going to.

But when it comes to raising awareness and being almost an advocate for those that need it, we need an increased awareness for autism, but also the type of support because vaccinations and psychotics are useful to a certain extent. But when it comes to managing autism itself and enabling the spirit of the human to come out as a human, we need better support for those on the autistic spectrum,

but for the carers and the schools. Dr. Camilla Pang and Rebecca tweeted, what a great interview, listening to the podcast now. Love the idea of a cat flap for biscuits. And Anna said, what a wonderful positive view of living as a high-functioning person with autism. Good points made about mental health support needed too. Now I'm still in the woman's studio, togged out in the usual clean, casual, stripy, tidy top and black leggings. If I were

at home right now, I'd be wearing the scruffy jeans and sweater that the dogs are allowed to sit on. And I sort of picture you at home in similarly not quite right for work stuff or maybe if you're really chilled you're still in your pyjamas although maybe not at four o'clock in the afternoon. Why do we choose the clothes we do is the question behind a book called Dress Your Best Life by the American fashion psychologist Dawn Karen. Why did a psychologist and therapist as she's trained to be turn her attention to clothes? I experienced a sexual assault while I was attending uni to be a psychologist and I basically did not want to talk. And I found myself wanting to express my pain and heal myself through my clothing. And so I realized perhaps I'm on to something. And this modality led me to pioneering the new fashion psychology field. What did you do about your clothing after that

terrible experience? I began to wear elaborate gowns. I remember to class I would wear like an Audrey Hepburn type of 1950s look. So I did some elaborate outfits that probably you wouldn't wear to uni when people were wearing a pullover or a hoodie. Now, you talk in the book about two essential fashion philosophies, mood illustration and mood enhancement. What do you mean by those two things? Mood illustration dress is dressing to perpetuate one's current mood and mood enhancement dress is dressing to optimize one's mood. So a lot of times we go to our closets and we have this feeling of I have nothing to wear. And so I realize that we are on autopilot and we're just not really in tune with ourselves. So I tell my clients and I tell my students before they're inundated with this overwhelming feeling of nothing to wear and

feeling frustrated and anxious just to determine how they feel at that moment and dress accordingly. Or if they don't want to wear that feeling, um dressing to wear a feeling uh that um would be proven most beneficial so to try to enhance their mood if you will what does what you're wearing for this interview say about you obviously i can't see you you're many many miles away. And you can't see me either. So what are you wearing? I am currently wearing a slip dress and a silk kimono robe within my home. As you know, we are social distancing or I would say physical distancing right now. And so I like to wear silk things within my home to make me feel very royal during such tragic times. So what mood were you in when you put those things on today? Yes, so I was feeling very elegant, royal, regal-like. So I wanted to do this interview

and feel very poised and confident. So it's allowing me to do so within my home as opposed to wearing my glad rags or my pajamas, right? I wouldn't really feel as confident. You say in the book that animal prints enhance mood. Why? Yes, yes, animal prints. There's something about an animal print that activates this ferocious feeling, if you will. So when I typically wear a leopard print, I feel as if I can encounter anything that comes my way. So research has shown even wearing the color red has effects on the brain and and how we feel so colors and prints they have an effect on how we are perceived and how they make us feel now in the first line of the book you write that clothes can actually lift you out of despair what should people who are forced to be at home and maybe

feeling despairing be thinking about how they're dressed and what difference will it make to them? I would say, you know, it's great to be in your pajamas for three days in a row. But after a while, it can become quite depressing, especially because we can't leave our homes. So I would say if you can't go out on a date with your significant other, you dress up in your homes and you have a date within your home. So wear different outfits throughout your day to break up the monotony so that you're not in this melancholy state. I can just hear a lot of people listening saying, oh my goodness, this is so trivial. You know, why are we encouraging people to go out and buy more clothes? We should be

saving and not buying more clothes and we shouldn't be worrying about clothes. What do you say to people who say, come on, this isn't real science? I get it a lot. And so I'm not encouraging people to engage in the cliche, quote unquote, retail therapy, if you will. So I'm not into compulsive shopping. I'm very much into sustainability. So I'm like, hey, shop your own closets and reinvent a look, remix a look. So not to go out. Fashion psychology is not necessarily about going out to buy everything

that you see. It's not into compulsive spending. It's all about just being in tune with how you feel and then dressing accordingly. So whether you're dressing to heal yourself or dressing to express yourself, I mean, if clothes didn't matter, we would all walk around naked. And that's basically not the case. I was talking to Dawn Karen. Now, we are, of course, all full of questions about how this crisis will progress but what about those of us who have no role in this virus other than to do what we're told, try not to catch it or pass it on to anybody else. Over the coming weeks we'll be talking to a number of women who listen regularly to Woman's Hour about how they're dealing with what's going on. To begin, I was joined by Mercy Haruna, who has two young children, lives in Kent, and whose husband, Chris, manages

the staff who stock the shop at their local Morrison's. How have the restrictions affected her life? I've had to, well, keep my children at home. Before this, I stayed at home and freelanced. So that part really hasn't changed. But then having the kids with me 24-7 is the major change. Yet how is being required to stay at home different from choosing to stay at home with your children? It's very different mentally. So when I drop my kids at school, I could go for a coffee or something. Now I don't have that option. They're with me 24-7. And it's just having that freedom taken away from you.

It's so different mentally. It feels like I'm in prison in a way. Now, I mentioned your husband, Chris, who has a very important job currently on the first line of trying to keep the supermarket stocked. How is he coping with that responsibility and you and the kids all being at home um it's very challenging um he told me that um initially the shops really struggled you know with the stockpiling and everything they just weren't ready for just how much stock they would need to get in there was one night where there

were no tissues in stock, but now they're getting on top of it and they're working as hard as they can to make sure we all have our supplies. And then in terms of him being out there while we're at home, it's very nerve wracking when he comes home. I have him scrub his hands thoroughly

because I just don't know what he's come in contact with. It freaks me out, but really there's nothing I can do because his job is important. So he's out at night and comes back in the with. It freaks me out, but really there's nothing I can do because his job is important. So he's out at night and comes back in the morning, is that right? Yeah, correct. Is there anything positive about this? I mean, do you get first pick of any food or toilet paper you need?

Yes. Yes, but we're not greedy. But surprisingly, there's not as much stuff as you would imagine that there would be. And so even they have to be conscious of how much they can keep for themselves. Like other shops, they've started to open for NHS staff and more vulnerable people for an hour in the mornings. But yeah, apart from that, we don't really we don't really get much more than anyone else, to be honest. Your children are a boy of six and a girl of three how much of what's going on do they understand my son's very curious

my daughter not so much she just goes by whatever her brother does the other day he asked me some questions about what coronavirus or cv is and i put on a YouTube video to explain how it came about. And he was just so fascinated by it all. I guess it's a learning experience for him as well. Now you have family living abroad. How are they coping? They're coping all right. They live in Nigeria. And at the moment, things are not down the way they are here. There's still a lot of people on the streets. There's a lot of people who don't understand the gravity of what's going on. But the government is trying their best to get as much information as possible. There's so many broadcasts on WhatsApp, people trying to educate each other and make sure that everyone's doing their bit. I'm nervous every day about the

fact that they're out there and in such an unpredictable situation. They're in danger. And them not being close to me, it's a difficult situation for me. But we do the best we can. We chat on WhatsApp every day, we video call. And that's keeping us as positive as possible. What good have you found is coming as a result of what's going on? I mean, most people are worried and anxious, but are there good things that are

coming out of it too? Yes, I believe that one of the best things that could happen from this is just being able to reconnect with people that you perhaps haven't been connected with for a while, because, you know, the rat race, life is so crazy. But you're at home now and you have all this time. I've had quite a few WhatsApp video conferences and Zoom conferences with my friends, catching up with people I haven't talked to in a while. I've also picked up old projects that I discarded. It's just a chance to kind of reconnect back to maybe just things that seem ordinary, but things that we would have ignored in the rat race, in the craziness of life.

I was talking to Mercy Haruna. And if you'd like to contribute to this series and this archive of what's going on now for women, we'd really love to hear from you. You might be in a care home. You might be a nurse. You might be a doctor. You might be living in a multi-generational family. We're looking for women from all walks of life and all over the UK. If that sounds like you, then please contact us through the Women's R website. Still to come in today's programme, it's a good time to get out into the garden, but how do women of colour cope with being kind of underrepresented in the green-fingered brigade?

We're allowed out to exercise, but what can you do at home? Simple examples for the over-50s, and yes, that includes me. If you missed a discussion about home education on Monday, there's an article full of helpful advice on the Women's Hour website. And a reminder that you can enjoy the programme any hour of the day if you can't join us live at two minutes past ten during the week. All you have to do is subscribe to the Daily Podcast and it'll cost you nothing.

Now, I think we're all aware of the stress that's being put on the internet because everybody's going online for schooling and simply to keep in touch with family and friends for the limited amount of social contact that's available to us. It's not surprising that children forced to be at home from school are spending more time than ever in front of a screen, not only for their education and their entertainment, but also for information. How conscious are children that what they read online may not be accurate or helpful? I think social media can be scary, like this new coronavirus. I think it is really scary because I don't think social media helps it with people talking about it. I understand people have their opinions and everything, but I just find it really scary.

It can also lead to bigotry and hatred. If you take the coronavirus outbreak now, the sort of the fake news that came from people eating bats, that's led people to have a bias against Asians in general, never mind just Chinese people. I saw this thing, it was like, coronavirus is a killer, but fake news can be even worse. For example, I heard one that was like like bleach, drink bleach to cure the coronavirus.

It's ridiculous. Like if you drink bleach, you are going to die. You're not going to get cured, but you're going to die. That's why you're not going to get the coronavirus. Charlie Hetty and Aliyah, who took part in the BBC bite-sized fact or fake campaign. Well, how can parents help their children be switched on to the difference between useful fact and dangerous fiction as the ones we just heard from seem to be? Well, Dr Radamogil is a GP and one of the presenters of Radio 1's Life Hacks. Sonia Livingston is Professor of Social Psychology in the Department of Media and Communications at the London School of Economics. How do people get taken in by information that really doesn't seem right?

We are just seeing so many hoaxes and spam and misguided, quote, advice that is adding to the confusion of what is, you know, really already quite a difficult situation for families to deal with. So I think there are two kinds of answers. One is, you know, these are just incredibly uncertain times. People are anxious. They really want to know. And so people are looking for information much more than they did before. And it's difficult to discern what can be trusted and what isn't trustworthy. And I think the other problem is that the platforms, the social media, where we turn to and where people so much get their news from these days, those platforms promote the sensationalist information. It's kind of in their interest to grab our attention. And so what seems more amazing, what seems more attention grabbing is just pushed at us a lot more. And

people have often learned to trust information that they see coming from different sources. So if the fake information comes from all directions, and often it's shared by people that we trust ourselves you know have you seen this I think it just makes it incredibly difficult to work out what what's reliable rather to what extent is this crisis restoring the reputation of the expert and the need for them because we heard in recent years oh experts we experts, we don't need them. Are we changing our mind? Yes, absolutely. So as you say, over the last few years especially, this virus has been bubbling around,

under the surface around the need for experts and do we need experts and do we not need experts? One of the things that this virus is really bringing to the forefront amongst many issues is the fact that we really need expert advice more than ever now. And that's not just to stay physically safe, but it's also to stay mentally well and emotionally well as well. When we have the facts, when we know that we can trust those facts and we know what we should be doing in our day-to-day lives,

then we can feel more reassured and we can actually keep ourselves safe, but we can also keep the people around us safe as well. And it's never been more important that we can actually check and make sure we're getting expert advice at this time. This last week has been incredibly difficult. Everything's been changing every single day, every single moment. And so for all of us,

we need to find our grounding. And in order to find our grounding, to have that trust, to feel safe, we need to get the facts and we need to get those from experts. Sonia, young people are often described as digital natives, the ones who we need to get those from experts. Sonia, young people are often described as digital natives, the ones who really know what they're doing digitally.

But how good are they really at understanding what they see online? I mean, those three were impressive that we just heard. But are all children as good at spotting what's not fact as they were? No, no, of course they're not. A lot depends on their age and research also shows, I'm afraid it does depend on the education or the kind of privileges that their parents have. So there's a lot of inequalities that affect people's kind of literacy skills. And I think a lot of adults watching children can be taken in a bit by how, you know, how quick they are to find

things and how kind of confident they are in using different devices. But that doesn't mean that they necessarily have the skills to tell fake from fiction. And the National Literacy Trust found that children like adults can often really struggle. So only a minority can tell what's fake story from what's a true story so you know so some media education some some guidance in in checking the facts is really needed by everybody but including children. Rhoda how do you advise parents to help their children cope with what they're seeing? Yes i think there are there are two parts to this i think one is obviously the practical part so bbc bite size the factual fake campaign is is online now it's got some great resources on there you can sit down and and actually watch and read with

your children to actually give them the practical tips about how to recognize what might be fake news um around the stories and and how to check the sources for example then the other side of that is the emotional picture so obviously all of us you know adults are feeling incredibly anxious incredibly worried and so children young people must be feeling even more so so dealing with that emotional situation with your children so sitting them down you know having a sort of family conference and trying to sort of plan and create a plan around what's going to happen in the house and how people are going to do things in the house what the current situation is and the advice from the government i think giving them those facts and that grounding in their day-to-day lives

giving a sense of continuity which is really important but also more general things emotionally so keeping it simple realizing that your reactions and your emotions will project onto them so being aware of how you behave and how you respond when you're watching the news around them for example and also letting them know that you are there for them what are their questions, what can you help them with and can you together sit down online and use a trusted source to actually work those questions through

and actually come up with some clear concrete answers for them Sonia, how sensible would it be to try and restrict their access? This whole new situation in which children are suddenly at home and not at school coincides with the moment when we've been worried about screen time and we've been trying to reduce how much time children spend in front of screens. So suddenly, the digital technology looks like it has a lot of answers to entertain children and to inform families. So what researchers have been really arguing for quite a while now is it just isn't about the amount of time that children spend with the screen. And this is the wrong time for families to try to limit that. But what really

matters is for children and parents together to discuss, you know, what is a good experience on the screen? You know, why is something entertaining? Or what can they learn from? Or are there screen activities they can do together and then kind of agree what are the other things that are still available to them, whether it is, you know, playing with siblings or maybe in the garden. So it's not the time to be worrying about screen time, but it is a great time to really focus on what is on and what you can engage with that is productive. Just one word, Sonia. Journalists are always taught to check their facts and check their sources. How can parents and children be sure that they're checking the source of what they see online? Ask children to explore because they do know, you know, they don't know everything, but give them the

task of detection, if you like. What is the URL? Are other sources reporting the same information? Is there a spelling mistake in that what looks like good news? Can you find out why it looks so amazing? And, you know, because if it looks so amazing, it's probably not, you know, charge the child to kind of play the role, a bit of information detective for the family. And I think they'll feel empowered and it might be helpful because kids love looking for health information online and they would love that responsibility, I think. I was talking to Professor Sonia Livingstone and Dr Radha Modgill. The weather's been pretty good this week,

enough to encourage you to get on with jobs in the garden, if you have one. What might be worth planting and nurturing at this time of year? Well, Flo Hedlum has been gardening professionally since 2012, and in 2017, she became BBC Two's Gardener's World's first ever black presenter. Amy Grant Cumberbatch is the founder of Grown, a gardening club for women of colour.

She grew up in Barbados. When did her gardening begin? Funnily enough, although I have a lot of amazing kind of plant related memories from living in barbados as a child one of which we had a cherry tree in our back garden where monkeys used to sit and eat the cherries but funnily enough at that age i wasn't actually that interested particularly in gardening although i did love the plants and flora and fauna around me i've really become interested in gardening over the past few years, firstly through houseplants. I have a lot of houseplants, and I got really into indoor gardening.

And then just recently, I've managed to get my first garden as an adult, and that's when I really kind of got into outdoor gardening too. And Flo, what about you? My parents came from the Caribbean, and they had a culture of growing. So I think I grew up with my parents' kindergarten and produce coming from the garden to the table. But it wasn't until I was an adult and actually got my first garden, my first house and garden, that I started to sort of tentatively sort of cultivate. But I think it's kind of something that's been within my sort of

dna because you know it was part of my childhood seeing my parents and helping them out but the plain fact is flo that gardening in britain it's still not particularly diverse is it no not especially no i mean the two sort of examples um when i was um studying at college the first year i was studying there was another the first year I was studying, there was another black woman, a Jamaican woman in my class. And then over the course of five years, there are a couple of other women of color within my classes. And then a good friend of mine who I'm now working with, and she's a black woman. And we sort of met at college. But also within the industry, no, no, we're not.

We're underrepresented. We're not that visible. OK. And why? I mean, could it be something to do with land ownership? It could possibly be. I think, you know, it's interesting. So another another story. Before I got involved with Gardeners World, I met another black gardener at a garden centre. We both looked at each other and went, just wow you me yes and when we were subsequently having a conversation one of his theories was that well i think you know going back through um history and through slavery gardening is seen as something quite lowly and not something that you would take up professionally and that is one theory.

I think, yes, land ownership, you know, a lot of people don't have gardens or assume that, you know, you need an outdoor space to garden. As Amy was saying, you could do it indoors. But it's, yeah, I think also, you know, being something and you work with your hands is probably something that, you know, our parents have said, you know, they want us to do professional, you know, career jobs. So it's not something that was particularly encouraged. And growing up, I didn't see anybody, you know, who looked like me was doing it.

And I think sometimes you need to see someone doing it to know that you can do it. Of course. Amy, tell us about your favourite houseplant. Because, I mean, I'm one of those people who can basically kill anything, really. It seems to everything withers on my watch. You could apply that to almost any aspect of my life in fact um so your house plant recommendations what would you suggest for the real for the real novice for the real novice so i think i would probably recommend i don't have one personally but something like a snake plant is really good if you are the kind

of person who's killed a lot of houseplants it doesn't need a lot of watering and it's very forgiving if you're kind of ready to move up from the snake plant sort of level i'd recommend a rubber tree they too are very forgiving they can put up with not a you know they need a bit of light but not loads and loads and they they've got beautiful foliage. And I also love the way that their new leaves unravel. It starts from a red spike and then they kind of unfold and the red part eventually drops off and it's just beautiful to watch. Now back in the real world, because life will resume again, we know that, you were organising plant swaps, weren't you,

where people could get together and share stuff? Yes, absolutely. So I think that's one of the nicest things about plants and gardening plant swaps weren't you where people could get together and share stuff yes absolutely so i think um that's one of the nicest things about plants and gardening is that ability to share so you know if you've got plants chances are you've got some cuttings too so things like spider plants and pilliards are really prolific in the amount of kind of what they you know of babies they offshoot and it's lovely to kind of share those with others. And I think I thought it was quite a natural thing to do

to arrange the first meetup around that. And then that way it can be free as well. So people just bring along the bits and bobs, the plants and the cuttings that they may have, and then chat and share them with others. And that will happen. It will happen at some point. We know that.

And just really briefly, Flo, because people are down at the moment and honestly, I wouldn't blame anyone. Spring is on the way. The weather, perhaps unfortunately, actually, is beautiful. Things are happening out there. Spring has sprung, yes.

I was out in my garden yesterday for about five hours. It's a great time just to get out and potter, I think, and, you know, have a bit of a tidy up or, you know, also a good time to buy seeds and start sowing seeds indoors or a little bit later outdoors.

So just do something just to feel that actually you have some control over creating and nurturing something. It's really important. Flo Hedlum and Amy Grant Cumberbatch. We've been told we are allowed to go out for exercise, but where is there to go if you're not a dog walker, runner or cyclist? All gyms, even those in the parks, are shut.

So it's home. And if you're an internet fan, there are plenty of online programmes to follow. But if you don't want to do PE with Joe Wicks, what can you do if you're in the older generation for which keeping mobile is so important? By the way, keep a chair handy for a little bit of practice now with Rosemary Malice, who runs Over 50 Fitness in Manchester. And we were joined by Professor Janet Lord, Director of the Institute of Inflammation and Ageing at the University of Birmingham. Why is sitting for long periods so bad for us as we age? The start point is that your immune system has declined with age and your muscles also tend to

lose their mass and their strength with age. And what may surprise your listeners is actually that muscle helps to regulate your immune system. And if it's moving, it's great. What it does, it produces hormones called myokines, which help your immune system to function better. If your muscle isn't moving, on the contrary then, there's no help there for your immune system and you increase the risk that you'll actually start to lay fat down in your muscle. And that's bad because it stops the muscle from working properly. But also fat is pro-inflammatory.

And we know that inflammation is one of the things that is really bad for your health. So muscle really is an all-round good regulator of your immune health. And now keeping your immune system up is probably more important than it's ever been? Absolutely. You'll have heard all the stories that it's actually the older adults and those that have got pre-existing conditions that are most susceptible to coronavirus. And also, if they do get the illness, then they tend to be sicker. And again, we know this is because your immune system doesn't work as well as you get older. And unfortunately, when you do get an infection, it just doesn't behave correctly, and it can cause some nonspespecific damage as it's trying to do its

job and what our research has shown is that if you go out and exercise and bizarrely I never knew where this figure of 10,000 steps came from but when we analysed over 200 older adults in Birmingham we found the ones that were doing the 10,000 steps, their immune system behaved correctly. Right. OK, so my dogs will get a longer walk than ever, I think, as the weekend comes. Rosemary, hello, Rosemary. We have met before. Now, you run regular classes for over 50s, which are now streamed online since the lockdown. And you describe them as functional fitness. What do you mean by functional fitness? Functional fitness is fitness that you need to function, basically. It's fitness that helps you with everyday life. So you don't learn to do a squat just for the sake of learning to do a squat.

You learn to do it because it helps you get up and downstairs. It helps you walk. It helps you play with your grandchildren, helps you get in and out the bath helps you walk. It helps you play with your grandchildren. Helps you get in and out the bath. So that's what functional fitness is. Now, only 5% of men, as I understand it, Rosemary, do the recommended 150 minutes of exercise each week. And for women, it's 2%. What do you think stops so many women doing specific exercises? But it's my experience that most older people know that they should exercise,

but I think sometimes they just don't know where to start and don't know how. They don't want to go to the gym for various reasons. Well, it's all those young people looking so fit and lovely, isn't it? Well, it is. Frighteners. I once got asked by somebody do we have to wear lycra i thought oh no no um i i just don't know i mean there are two components to this fitness thing it's 150 minutes of um exercise a week that makes you slightly

breathless but then to add on to what janet said you should be doing at least two strengthening sessions a week. And that's to keep your muscle mass up. And that is vitally important. Janet, what does the science tell us about, I mean, if so few women are actually doing regular prescribed sort of exercise, don't we get an awful lot of exercise? Hoovering, cleaning the house, going for walks with the dogs, walking to the shops. I mean, I know now is a difficult time, but under general circumstances, is there enough fitness exercise in everyday getting about? Yes, that's a really good question. So there's been lots of studies that have looked at that. And to be honest, even taking that into account, those

figures that you mentioned, the 5% and the 2%, they were actually people wore Fitbit-like monitors. So they did monitor them correctly. And even taking into account those daily activities, people are really not doing the amount of activity they should do. But what we now know is the worst thing you can do is to sit down all day and watch daytime TV. So they might have done one of Rosemary's classes or they might have gone for a walk. But if you then sit down, you pretty well undo all of the good you've done. So it's important to keep exercising during the day. And I know things that Rosemary is going to take us through in a minute. And also there's other online tips

like move it or lose it. Do the cuppa routine, sort of a series of four exercises to do while you're making a cup of tea. So I think the other message to get across to the listeners is to make sure that you break your sitting time up. Try to do something regularly. OK, Rosemary, what do you want me to do first? And everybody who is listening, who has got a chair ready? Go. Right. Well, you need ideally a dining room chair or a kitchen chair. I mentioned squats before, but a lot of people, I can't do squatting technique on the radio because you can't see me.

No, and I'm not doing squatting even for you. Right. So you sit on the chair with your knees at 90 degrees and then if you can just stand up without using your hands you may over the years have got into the habit of putting your hands on your knees when you stand up or holding on to the arms of the chair if you can just stand up without holding on that's great now some people can't do that. The thing about exercise is it needs to be consistent. And if you find you can't do it, you give up. I've done it. So find something you can do.

I've done it. Well done, Jenny. And everybody in the control room has done it. Right. What's the next exercise? I want a signed affidavit. The next exercise is very, very simple. It's just going on tiptoe.

Oh, I've done this one before with you and it is painful. Well, if an exercise is painful, don't do it. That is my top tip. What? They used to say no game without pain. Is that not true anymore? Yeah, well, I'm going to have a word with that young lady. Walking on tiptoes is great exercise.

It's actually easier to balance if you're walking than it is to just stand on tiptoes is great exercise actually easier to balance if you're walking than it is to uh just stand on tiptoe but i mean it gives you better balance better coordination better stability i've actually just done it without holding on to anything i can't walk around the studio because i've got headphones on they would come off if i walk around uh but are people allowed to hold on to a chair if necessary whilst they're tiptoe standing I was going to say hold on to a chair or if you're walking walk by a wall and hold on to that or put it on your favorite track and dance because dancing you you do go on tiptoe without even realizing it and just make it fun okay give us more. The next one is for your shoulders and your arms. You stand

standing nice and tall with your hands on your thighs and all you're going to do is raise one arm up in front of you and keep going all the way up until it's pointing up to the ceiling in line with your ears. If you can't do that, if you can only get it sort of halfway up, that's absolutely fine and then as you bring it down, bring the other one up. So you're putting your arms up and down alternately, okay? Try not to lean back. Try to just keep, it's only your arms that move. Your body doesn't move.

And this is great for shoulder mobility. Shoulder strength helps your back. It helps your balance. You can do that one sitting down as well. But if you can stand up to do an exercise, it's much better to stand up because that helps your balance. You can do that one sitting down as well. But if you can stand up to do an exercise, it's much better to stand up because that helps your balance. And yes, Rosemary, I did it standing up. And it wasn't too painful.

So our thanks to Rosemary Mallis and Professor Janet Lord for keeping us going. Lars writes, though, I heard you standing up without using your arms. I tried it after the end of the programme. Wasn't pleasant, but I managed to do it by leaning forward so far I almost toppled over forward. Risky stuff. Can it be a good idea? I am a man, 88 years old and not overweight. Take it steady Lars. And someone who didn't want us to use a name said, I found walking upstairs two at a time when not carrying anything and concentrating has really strengthened my thigh muscles. And walking up and down stairs, up and down the stairs without using the banister helped improve my balance and strength and brushing my teeth on one leg for

balance combining it with a routine means I remember to do it more often thank you for all your tips and when you are doing your exercises do be careful now on Monday join Jane when we'll be looking at the lack of personal protective clothing that's available for social workers to protect them from COVID-19. Join Jane if you can just after 10 o'clock. Enjoy the rest of the weekend. Bye-bye. I'm Sarah Treleaven, and for over a year, I've been working on one of the most complex stories I've ever covered.

There was somebody out there who's faking pregnancies. I started like warning everybody. Every doula that I know. It was fake. No pregnancy. And the deeper I dig, the more questions I unearth. How long has she been doing this? What does she have to gain from this?

From CBC and the BBC World Service, The Con, Caitlin's Baby. It's a long story, settle in. Available now.