Woman's Hour - Women's Football, Covid-19 - Impact on Children, The Lives of Houses, Loneliness and Isolation

Episode Date: April 1, 2020

All professional and grassroots football matches across the country have been suspended due to the COVID-19 outbreak. As the men’s teams are forced from the pitch and income falls away what will happen to the women’s teams they supported? Jen O'Neill, editor of shekicks.net and Kerys Harrop, Captain of Birmingham City Ladies, discuss the issues. The Children’s Commissioner for England, Anne Longfield, told Woman’s Hour at the start of the year that the system of support for the most vulnerable children was under strain. The Covid 19 crisis has put additional pressures on that system, with many vulnerable children now out of school and many of their services closed. She says that she’s especially concerned about one million children who were at risk -living in households which are not stable, where there might be domestic violence, drug or alcohol addiction, financial hardship and severe mental health issues. She explains what these children need now. The Lives of Houses – a collection of essays which asks what a house can tell us about the person who lived there. Hermione Lee describes why we are so fascinated by the homes of the famous and often long dead.And, as the word home takes on a new significance in this lockdown – how hard is isolation if you live alone and how can you avoid suffering from loneliness? Jenni speaks to Kate Shurety the executive Director of the Campaign to End Loneliness and Rosie Weatherley from the mental health charity Mind.

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BBC Sounds. Music, radio, podcasts. Hello, Jenny Murray welcoming you to Wednesday's edition of the Woman's Hour podcast on the 1st of April. Good morning. Just as women's football began to be taken seriously and command an audience, comes Covid-19. As the men's teams are forced from the pitch and income falls away, what will happen to the women's teams they supported? The lives of houses, a collection of essays which asks what a house can tell us about the person who lived there. Why are we so fascinated by the homes of the famous and often long dead? And as the word home takes on a new significance in this lockdown,

how hard is isolation if you live alone and how can you avoid suffering from loneliness? At the start of this year, the Children's Commissioner for England, Anne Longfield, told us that the system of support for the most vulnerable children was under strain and more money was needed. Well, the current crisis is, of course, putting even more pressure on that system as lots of those children are now out of school, their services are closed, and they may be living in households which are not stable, where there may be poverty, domestic violence, drug or alcohol addiction and of course severe mental health problems well what do those children need now

i'm joined by anne longfield and what do we know about the lives now of the million children you believe are most at risk well good morning um There is about a million children. They will be children who will be either have a social worker now or at some point or in need of a social worker. They're not in school, a lot of them. Government has, I think, really wisely kept schools open for vulnerable children, but we know numbers are really down. Schools are anecdotally telling us less than 20% of those children are in school. So essentially, they'll be like the rest of us. They'll be at home and spending a lot of time in their home environment. Now, for a lot of those children, home won't be a calm place.

There may be all sorts of issues going on in the home. There may be issues around domestic issues going on in the home. There may be issues around domestic abuse and the like at home. And school has been a stable place for them, a place where they will get a structure to the day and importantly, the oversight of other professionals. Now, that's gone for a lot of children. So my concern is that they are almost hidden out of sight, which is why I want to reach out to them and to make sure that they are in contact. Now, the government has issued guidance saying the protection of vulnerable children is a priority, obviously, and social workers and others should not lose touch with them unless they said it's not in the best interests of the child. How easy is it to work out what's in the best interests of the child how easy is it to work out what's in the

best interests of the child right now well it's first of all it was important that government kept schools open and recognized vulnerable children i've got to say at various points i i don't think we could have made the assumption that would happen i know councils and many many schools are working flat. But there is an issue about staff shortages and staff strain here. And as you say, earlier in the year, I was talking about a system already under intense strain. Now, it is a difficult call there for many social workers. They'll be needing to work with families to look at encouraging them into school, looking to encourage them to put children's needs first in that.

But it's something that social workers do day in, day out. And I know they're working flat out to do it. But it is something which needs contact, which is why I'm saying really now we've had a fantastic response this volunteer army with the nhs we need to see something similar redeploying people who work with children that are police checked and can come in to support social workers to get there and make contact and reach out to those families but you know when you call for an army of volunteers to protect them how can you be sure that that will work safely for them? Well, this is something that a lot of councils are saying to me that they would really welcome. And it's important that councils are the ones that actually have the organisation

and coordination responsibilities of this. It's not just anyone who would feel that they want to, you know, step out themselves and independently do it. What a lot of local areas are saying, look, we know that we're strained already in terms of staffing numbers. We know that we now have to plan for staff to not be able to come into work because they're unwell. But at the same time, there's nursery workers that are furloughed, there's people who would be in school, support staff, dinner ladies, classroom assistants and the like. And what would be really welcome, I think, and, you know, social work England have done a great job in getting social workers who've retired back in,

that's already underway. And next step would be to reach out to that wider workforce, people who already work with children and families who can help support social workers do what they do. Now, the Victims Commissioner, Vera Baird, has published a report today. She's very worried about the lockdown's effects on domestic abuse, which, of course, we've spoken about earlier in the week. She also says there's an overlap between children's experience of domestic abuse and their offending behavior what support are those children going to need because very very bad says they should be treated as victims of crime and not criminals what you find always when i talk to young people that are in prison maybe 15 16 17 years old

you will always find a catalog of experiences as they grow up often problems at home often problems when they've fallen out of school often opportunities that have been missed where someone could have helped them tackle what's going on and help them to overcome those challenges. And so, yes, we know that the biggest reason that children go into care is domestic abuse. We know that a lot, the majority of young people in trouble with the law will have had these kind of difficulties in their home environment. If they can be spotted early and prevented, you give that child a fighting chance before school, before they start school is really important, but all the way through schooling too. I know you've expressed concern about children in custody and called for the under 14s and those held for non-violent offences to be released. But if you

ask for something like that, how concerned are you about what they may be released to, if we know there is this connection between domestic abuse and offending? Well, that's right. I mean, none of these things can be done with a huge sweep. They have to all be really carefully considered. But just as with the adult population in prison, there's sensible moves to look at how the prison population can be lessened at this point. There are a third of all the kids that are in custody are on remand at the moment.

And actually, two thirds of those don't go on to be sentenced. So there's a population there to look at. There's those that are particularly vulnerable towards COVID-19 itself, but those that are due to be released shortly. Those are a significant population of the prison, probably about a quarter or a third of those in custody which I would prefer it was less but it's only 800 children now. But my question is what do they go back to? You know of course of course they have to go back to a really really strong package of support. Some of that might not be at home some of these children will already be looked after by a local authority. But there are some great local authorities doing very, very sometimes bold things to look at wrapping around packages of support for some of these children

who can stay in their community. And that for a lot of children will be more beneficial than going into a prison situation where, of course, they'll have their own dangers in there. And, of course, will be with a wider population of really vulnerable kids that are already involved with the law. So it's not an easy answer. And at a time of emergency, there's added pressures on that but you've got to balance that and I know that ministers are balancing that at the moment with keeping those in those young people in prison with all the dangers that brings just one final question and dealing with the virus is obviously the current priority but what do you reckon is the greatest danger for young people if we lose sight of their interest? Well I think this emergency has clearly focused everyone's mind on on the vulnerable and rightly so and a lot of the attention of course have been on vulnerable older people and thankfully I mean we've seen some terrible

I had some terrible stories this morning and learned about those young people who've sadly fallen victim to the disease. But thankfully, that is relatively rare. But children and vulnerable children, which are often hidden in our society, often hidden from view, have a real cocktail of secondary issues that emerge. And they are very, very vulnerable now, but also going forward because of what has happened to them. So I think this puts a spotlight really clearly on vulnerable children. I'm pleased that government are spending a lot of time talking about this. I think there are really things that we can do now which will provide that spotlight now, but also in the long term.

And I hope that it resets the priority we give vulnerable children in the society and makes it very clear. I think everyone does care about the welfare of vulnerable children. And I think that has to become much more visible as we go forward. Anne Longfield, thank you very much indeed for being with us this morning. Now, like all sports, football is currently in a state of suspended animation. The Football Association says there'll be no games for the top professional clubs until the 30th of April. Decisions will be reviewed depending for the top professional clubs until the 30th of April. Decisions will be

reviewed depending on the progress of the virus. Clubs at lower levels are suspended indefinitely and of course this will all have an impact on women's football teams which are generally supported financially by the men's clubs. But if the men are struggling from loss of income, might they simply cut their women's teams loose? Well, Kerry Sarup is the captain of Birmingham City Ladies, speaking this morning from a personal perspective. Jen O'Neill is the editor of the magazine SheKicks.net. Jen, the season four non-league sides for men and women has been cancelled. What's the impact of that for the women's game? Well, I think, firstly, there's a huge amount of upset

because if you think about the expenditure of effort and time, sweat, but also passion and money because those clubs have to travel to play each other. They're upset because they haven't been consulted. As you said, the FA actually, from tiers three to seven in the women's game, which is below the top two professional and semi-professional level, have been expunged. It's like it didn't ever exist. And a lot of clubs had ambitions for promotion.

Some were maybe struggling against relegation. Jan, what other options than cancellation were there? I think some people have said, because in Wales, in other places around the world, they haven't just stopped the league and expunged all results people are suggesting maybe they could have waited a little bit longer to decide there's a little bit upset that there hasn't been more consultation they could have perhaps started again when the football could be played again in the autumn or in the summer and finish those leagues and then have a shortened season into 2021 and personally i think that this was probably the best decision,

but I can totally understand why people would be upset with this. Keris, the Women's Super League in which you play and the Championship League will continue after the lockdown. How much of a relief was it to hear that? Yeah, it was a relief. I was always in doubt of what was going to happen um but i think yeah the priority for the league is just to get this season finished so regardless of whether it runs into to next year um this season has to be finished so that's

positive news it's just the kind of awkwardness of waiting around for it now and not knowing when that's going to recommence. But, you know, we're still training hard and I'm sure all clubs across the league have given their players proof. Staying fit, that's the main thing. Oh, I lost you for a moment there, Carys. What's it like for you at the moment? I mean, you're a premiership sportswoman what on earth are you doing with

your time yeah still keeping busy um like i say we've been given training programs to follow so you know probably exercising twice a day on some days um but then just yeah making the most of the free time so i've got some new hobbies like colouring books and puzzles and I've joined up to the NHS volunteer scheme so that'll be keeping me busy this month as well. Jen when we look at the league the Championship League and the Women's Super League continuing how realistic do you think it is that those games will be played if the lockdown lasts into the summer? I think it's difficult because there are issues with contracts and that doesn't just affect the women's game, it affects the men's game. So FIFA and the FA etc. are looking at that

because players are only in contract until June the 30th. But where there's a will, I'm sure there's a way because this is on a UEFA level, the huge money on Champions League, things like that. You know, so the women's game, hopefully WSL and Championship will be very keen to get that season completed. And it could happen. But as you say, there the opening, the concern is there that if men's Premier League clubs could be losing, that the talk is of sort of £50 million. And even Tottenham Hotspur, for example, are going to the government asking for funds to furlough non-playing staff. Then where does the revenue come for the women's sides who at the current state of play are not sustainable?

They come out of the men's revenue. So there are fears, I think, that maybe one or two women's sides, even at that level, may not be able to come back and complete the season. Fingers crossed everything is OK. The FA did tell us that we will continue to follow government advice and provide ongoing support for the game as we plan for football to resume when it's safe. Do you not think they can go on paying the women?

Well, I hope that they can, but they may be into next year. So there will be, I'm pretty sure that they will be able to finish the season. But how the women's game, the men's game, how the world, society, all sports, business looks when we get back to, in inverted commas, normality, we can't predict. And I think there will be casualties, maybe not in the top flight or maybe not in the second tier,

but throughout the women's pyramid and the men's pyramid, there will be clubs that cannot continue and there will be gaps in leagues and it will need to be reorganised, I'm sure. Keris, why are the women's teams so dependent on the men's clubs? Well, I think at the minute, you know, the game's still growing. So obviously the interest isn't as high as the men's at the minute, but it's definitely growing. And, you know, I think women's football is one of the fastest growing sports

in the last, you know, five years or so. Obviously with the men, they get big revenue deals from, you know, BT and Sky and broadcasting stations. And, you know, those big deals just don't exist in women's football at the minute. And I guess, you know, it's that investment that allows the game to grow and to increase publicity. So until that massive investment comes in, which realistically I don't think it ever will be

and you can't compare the women's game to the men's game, but as long as there's a slow progression in the right direction then that's all we can ask for. What's the position with your contract at the moment, Kerry? So you're in the process of renegotiating? Not as yet, no. You know, still waiting. I think this whole coronavirus thing has slowed things down a little bit.

But, you know, hopefully those talks will come soon. But like you say, I think the clubs, just from a men's perspective, first of all, are figuring out what to do and maybe figuring out their budgets for the rest of the season and for next season. Then the women's teams will follow then as well. Jen, what's happening at the grassroots where girls are keen to get going and become a Kerris Harrop? Yeah I think it's we shouldn't sort of focus on the doom and gloom because as Kerris was saying

there are big sponsors coming into the women's game so the momentum although we may face a bump in the next year or so it's definitely forward you know Barclays and people like that getting on board is massive. in terms of grassroots this sounds sort of a bit twisted but perhaps people can look at this as an opportunity if they go on social media they'll see players like Kerris England players they're all in the same boat they're training at home effectively so work on your technical skills ball work body weight stuff get on social media see what Scott, her skill challenges are. She's one of the leading Lionesses players.

And see this as a chance to work on things maybe that you wouldn't have done in the past. There was an interesting story two days ago. Me and the next teammate of Keris's got sent home by the police for training out on the field with a housemate. And they wouldn't believe that. They were professional athletes. got sent home by the police for training out on the field with a housemate. And they wouldn't believe that they were professional athletes.

You know, they're trying to play at the top level for Reading in the top tier. One of the girls is an England player who won a bronze medal at the last World Cup, the 2015 World Cup. So everybody is struggling in this lockdown. So it's a big leveller, but get practising. But we have to be fair. We have to be fair, Jen, to the police. They are doing their best to keep people socially separated. Jen O'Neill, Keris Harrop, thank you both very much indeed for being with us. Fingers crossed for the game. And girls, if you're at home

and you're wondering how you can practise your football or if you have good ideas, why don't you get in touch with us? Send us an email or a text. Any girl who's keen on football. Now, still to come in today's programme, isolation has become the new normal for thousands of us. It can also mean loneliness. How, if you are alone, to cope?

And the serial this week is Wordsworth's autobiography in verse, the prelude is read by Ian McKellen. Now, earlier in the week, you may have missed Kate Elizabeth Russell discussing her novel, My Dark Vanessa, and an explanation of unfamiliar technology. How do Zoom and House Party actually work? If you've missed a live programme, you can catch up. All you have to do is download the BBC Sounds app. Now, it's just over a year since I was lucky enough to be invited into

the house in Winchester where Jane Austin spent her final days. It was deeply moving to step into the room in which she died, touch door handles unchanged since she was there, and sit in the window seat from where her sister Cassandra watched the funeral procession pass on its way to the cathedral

as a woman she was not allowed to attend. Well, that for me, as a huge Austen fan, was a really special occasion. But what is it about a house in which a famous person has lived that thrills so many of us? Why do we go to Shakespeare's birthplace in droves? Why is it special that Ian McKellen recorded words as prelude in Grasmere? Well, The Lives of Houses is a collection of essays

jointly edited by Dr Kate Kennedy and the literary biographer Dame Hermione Lee. Her subjects have been Virginia Woolf, Edith Wharton, Anne Penelope Fitzgerald and Tom Stoppard is to come. Hermione, why do so many of us visit the houses of the famous? What are we looking for? Yes, it's such a peculiar and mixed emotion that drives us to these places and I love your account of going to Jane Austen's

last home that that's an example of a very moving uh feeling that one has of really being in touch with the life that was lived there but it's a funny mixture we we somehow feel that maybe sort of genius will rub off on us somehow if we go into the rooms. We believe that we might be more in touch with the person who wrote the great works if we see the rooms in which they worked. And of course, we're all tremendously nosy and that there's an element of sort of just inquisitiveness about this, you know, what was their bed like and what was the bathroom like and things like that and and quite often um i mean in the situation you describe it's it's very moving and i think we do feel very much and i think that's the truth too when you go to the bronx's house the bartonage in howarth or emily dickinson's house

in amherst just the size of the rooms tells you such a lot about their lives but quite often it can be a bit disappointing you know what what about your subjects what are the most interesting things you've learned about them from visiting their homes i love the penelope fitzgerald story where she lived on a barge yes for a time she did that penelope fitzgerald is a wonderful English novelist of the mid-20th century. Fell strangely through the nets of middle class comfort and bourgeois life. And because of various circumstances, she and her family became extremely poor. And at the beginning of the 60s, they lived on an old leaky barge on the Thames in Chelsea Reach, which is now quite posh, but then was a pretty sort of mixed, disreputable place. And she was bringing up three children.

Her husband was a sort of hopeless case by that time. And they often literally didn't have enough to eat. Then they used to take their sponges and their towels up to the king's road public bars where the sort of 60s um life was just beginning but what they were doing was having a bath and then going back onto the barge and eventually this barge sank with most of her possessions including a lot of precious childhood mementos. So she wrote about it wonderfully in a novel called Offshore, which won the Booker Prize some years later. So that house became, you know, a house that had vanished in time and place and is all the more moving for being recalled when she wrote about it.

How often do you spot a house that the author has lived in, in their fiction? How often, I'm sorry, I lost you there. How often do you... How often do you spot, when you're reading their fiction, the house that they'd actually lived in? How often do they use their own homes in their fiction? Very often, and I think that that's what attracts us to going to the houses often it's the fact that they've been written about so movingly so a wonderful example of this is Virginia Woolf who for the first 13 years of her life until her mother died would go every summer with the big family down to Cornwall to Talon's house. And she used to write about this over and over again,

because when her mother died in 1895, they never went there again. Her father couldn't bear to go there again. So she lost the house at the same time that she lost her mother. And she writes with intense sort of grief and pleasure mixed together about her memory of waking up. The first morning they would get there from London, she'd wake up and she'd hear the wind making the blind just tap against the window and the sound of the waves breaking outside the window and thinking, this is the purest happiness that I can have. And then she would write this and write this in her novels, Jacob's Room and most famously in her wonderful novel, To the Lighthouse.

And because you feel you're there when she's writing about it, you terribly want to go and visit it. And now you can. When I first wrote about Virginia Woolf in the early 90s, in my biography of Virginia Woolf, I did try to make a pilgrimage to that house. And the owner, who'd never heard of Virginia Woolf when he bought the house, was a very cross person who was tremendously fed up with all these Virginia Woolf pilgrims

coming to his house and staking out his garden. But I think now they're more welcoming. Which writers' houses would you recommend for a visit where you know the current owner won't say, no, go away? northeast uh um america is edith wharton's very grand house called the mount um which she built at the turn of the um early 20th 19th 20th century turn of the century and it's a very splendid house with a very splendid garden and she was a wealthy woman who also made a lot of money from her books so she wrote a lot of her books there. And there's something really fascinating about the kind of grand style and the love of Europe, both of which things get into her novels, novels like The House of Mirth and The Age of Innocence. And you can kind of recognize those things in the

style of the house. So that's a very, very grand example. A much less grand example would be Monk's House in Sussex, where Virginia and Leonard Wolfe lived for many years when they weren't in London. And Monk's House has brilliantly avoided that thing that can happen slightly deadeningly, when you put little ropes up everywhere, and you're not allowed to touch anything and it's all very formal and everything's under glass cases and there's a slight sense of alienation and disappointment when you go to visit the house. In Monk's house with the garden

and the writer's hut where she used to work and the path to the church and of course down to the river there is a very strong sense that yes this was the place she lived in. I know you said that sometimes the house is gone, but you kind of think something remains. Is that a bit spooky? It can be spooky.

It can also be very touching. I wrote a book about a wonderful novelist called Elizabeth Bowen, who is a great Anglo-Irish novelist, in that she lived both in Ireland and in England, and she was descended from the Protestant Anglo-Irish ruling classes who built big houses in Ireland all over the Irish countryside in the 18th century. And they became very isolated and redundant, really, as Irish history took its course.

And she inherited one of these houses called Bowen's Court. And she didn't live there all the time. And eventually, after her husband died, she had to give it up. She couldn't afford to keep it up. And so she sold it in 1959. And it was demolished. And she'd written a book about this house and the history of the family. And when she reissued that book after the house had been demolished, she kept the description of the house in the present tense because to her, the house felt as if it was still alive. So about 40

years on from that, I went to make a pilgrimage to the place where the house had stood. So I stood in this field, this empty field in North Cork, with a kind of heap of stone at the side of the field. And I thought, what am I doing? Why am I here? Why does this vanished house speak to me so passionately from this empty field? And it is, of course, because she was a a great writer and she made me inhabit it in my imagination just as she had. Hermione Lee thank you so much for being with us this morning I'll repeat the title of the book is The Lives of Houses and again we'd like to hear from you if you've been to someone's house and it's really excited you let us know about it. Now isolation is what's being asked of all of us at the moment and it's hard enough you. Let us know about it. Now, isolation is what's being asked of all of us at the moment, and it's hard enough if you're sharing with your family and friends.

But what about all those people who live alone or in an unhappy relationship, which can sometimes be lonelier than living by yourself? Well, the campaign to end loneliness reckons isolation and loneliness? director of the campaign to end loneliness. Kate, how do you define the difference between isolation and loneliness? I think it's a really important distinction to make because social isolation, which we're all getting to grips with a bit rapidly at the moment, doesn't necessarily mean you'll be lonely. So I think that's quite reassuring to know. Social isolation is when there may be obstacles for you actually forming social contacts. That can be income, that can be transport. Right now, it's the coronavirus. Whereas loneliness is the very

personal feeling that we may feel when we don't have the kind of social connections that we want. And you're absolutely right to say you know you could be in a relationship but you may feel unutterably lonely because because there's not that connection there um we're all used to the idea of feeling lonely in a crowd rosie what kind of support do you at this time think can be given to those who are struggling not only with loneliness but with anxiety and possibly depression yeah i think um you know kate kate's right in that loneliness is um is different from isolation and i think for for mind it's it's about if you don't feel understood or cared for by the people around you so that idea that you could be living in a household with loads of

other people but you're not feeling kind of seen um and that can be really distressing to live through especially if you can't move outside of your house and go and do the things that you would normally do um so you know in terms of support it's hard right now because a lot of the options and the crutches that we would usually seek or move towards to kind of get us through those kind of moments aren't available. So, you know, it is things like online communication, you know, video chats in all their various forms and actually making a meaningful connection during those calls. So, you know, not just talking about the light stuff, but kind of getting to a place where you're having conversations

that are saying things like, so, you know, what's keeping you going right now and how are you doing, being able to be vulnerable and then have that vulnerability seen and acknowledged and understood. I think that's common to all of us. Kate, what do you reckon?

I mean, I'm thinking that so many people are using social media but can't you be terribly lonely even if you're using social media just living in a digital space yes and i think the other thing is is you know there's there's a large number of people that don't have access to social media and i think um at a time like this i wouldn't underestimate at all the power of the phone call and the power of the human voice what Rosie says is absolutely absolutely correct you know that that vulnerability being able to express how you feel and feeling that you have a space or a person that you can do that will make you feel connected even if what you're expressing feels

quite dark so yeah there's there's ways, and social media is one, but phone is also another. Rosie, there will be new mothers at home, some of whom may be feeling rather blue at the moment. What support do they need, and how can they get it? Yeah, you're right. I have a friend who's just become a parent for the first time and I know that she's finding it very hard right now.

I'd say that, you know, the baby blues, in inverted commas, is reasonably common, happens sort of two to four days after the birth and they usually only last a few days. But if you're feeling very, very low for much longer or it starts to get very worse, you could be experiencing postnatal depression, which is really common. It's at least one new mother in 10. But often new mothers are left to suffer in silence and are struggling alone

because their problems aren't recognised. So the things that we know really help are, again, this feeling of connecting and feeling seen and understood so in the context of coronavirus um that's got to be um connection from within your household or someone that you're speaking to over the phone or online um and i think it's important to know that right now things like health visitors um and support for midwives may look and feel very different. So it's important to find out what access you have and what options you've got around you. But there's also things like meeting other parents online.

You might not be able to get to the mother and baby groups, but there's absolutely online communities popping up all over the place where you can see your experience reflected back and know that all new parents share the same anxieties and frustrations and that's so reassuring to sort of meet other people that are in the same position as you. Kate we're coming up to Easter, Passover, Ramadan times when we gather for traditional festivals what are your best tips for combating loneliness during this period and especially when we come up to the festive times i think i think the tips are the same it's

it's but how we do them will be quite different in this current context so so making sure that we're spending time investing in the relationships that we've got and are sustaining to us. And we have to do that in a different way now. So through phone, through social media, through the post potentially, although people might want to wait before opening physical cards and stuff like that. And by setting time aside. So I think for people who are working from home, this might be more challenging. But setting time aside where you do your social activities in the way that you can, I think there is something about the fact that we are all experiencing this at the same time that is potentially helpful.

As awful as it is, it is something that connects us all very very clearly at the moment so bearing in mind why does that make it easier i think i think for people who feel isolated and on their own um for a long period of time that disconnection is and that invisibility that rosie referenced earlier is is part of what makes loneliness so hurtful. If there's something we're all experiencing at the same time, even though this is a negative thing, it does create a sense of connection, that sense that we're in this together. And as bleak as that is,

I think that's an important thing to hold on to. I was talking to Kate Surety and Rosie Weatherly. On the impact on children of the lockdown during COVID-19, Jenny said on Twitter, my two daughters both work in childcare and are at home, but I'm expecting that they'll be asked to take on a role in social care. They don't have the training and skills to take on social work. This is reflected in their qualifications and pay rate.

Lots of you responded to my conversation with Hermione Lee about houses. Bob on Twitter said, I get the same sense of a presence from, example, standing in the doorway of a Bronze Age roundhouse on Dartmoor, seeing the same horizons as they did 4,000 years ago, or walking the site of the Battle of Culloden, it can be so very intense. And Jojo on Twitter said, I visited Louisa May Alcott's house in Concord, Massachusetts, USA. I saw the desk at which she wrote Little Women. I was able to imagine the March family living there. And then on isolation and loneliness during this lockdown, Sue said on Twitter, we're trying our best to stave off loneliness at the moment.

We're using video conferencing and doing family yoga every morning, having family meetings the same way and having a virtual dinner party with friends on Saturday. We live in the Midlands, London and Cornwall. And Joanne said on Twitter, we've introduced tea at three in our street. At three o'clock, we come out into our front gardens and stand two metres away from each other and have a cup of tea with the neighbours. It's a great anchor in many of our days and enabled us to have a chat in real life.

It's more British than singing from our balconies. Now do join me tomorrow, if you can, two minutes past ten, when I'll be talking to Kayleigh Llewellyn. She's the writer and creator of a BBC comedy stroke tragedy drama series called In My Skin. It's based on her own story of her childhood in Wales and it follows Bethan, who's 16, as she negotiates her school life, sexuality and hiding her mother's mental illness

from her friends and teachers. That's tomorrow, two minutes past ten. Be there if you can. Bye-bye. Hi, I'm Catherine Bell-Hart. And I'm Sarah Keyworth. We're comedians separately and a couple together, and we're the host of You'll Do, the podcast that gives you a little insight into perfectly imperfect love.

Yeah, forget nights in with this one and hashtag couples goals. We want to know the whys and hows of sticking with the people we love and asking a few of the questions that are meant to help us develop intimacy. So why not give it a listen and subscribe to You'll Do on BBC Sounds. I'm Sarah Treleaven and for over a year I've been working on one of the most complex stories I've ever covered. There was somebody out there who was faking pregnancies. I started, like, warning everybody. Every doula that I know.

It was fake. No pregnancy. And the deeper I dig, the more questions I unearth. How long has she been doing this? What does she have to gain from this? From CBC and the BBC World Service, The Con, Caitlin's Baby. It's a long story. Settle in.

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