Women at Work - Family Management: On the Cusp of Parenthood

Episode Date: April 19, 2021

We get inside the head of a woman whose due date is just days away. She shares with Erica her worries, hopes, and questions about how having a baby will change her career. Erica offers practical advice for managing a new identity and new work-family demands.

Over 40,000 businesses have future-proofed their business with NetSuite by Oracle, the number one cloud ERP, bringing accounting, financial management, inventory, and HR into one platform. Download the CFO's Guide to AI and Machine Learning for free at netsuite.com slash women at work. Kevin, what do you remember about the days right before Maisie was born? What were you doing, thinking, feeling? I was not focusing at work, I'll tell you that. I remember sitting at my desk and googling different scenarios. And the one scenario I was really concerned about was what would I do if I couldn't get Julie to the hospital on time? And that's something I really, really feared. And, you know, if I were in a movie or I was being cast in a movie, I would not be cast as the strong fireman that comes in and saves a day. I would definitely be cast as the hapless dad who's driving on the highway.

Panicked. Yeah, yeah. I would not be able to handle delivering a baby on my own. That's fair. But in all seriousness, I was concerned about seeing my wife in pain. And I was also really worried about showing up for her when she needed me the most. The way I looked at it, this was the Super Bowl of our relationship. And she was the one pushing out the baby. She was the one playing the most. The way I looked at it, this was the Super Bowl of our relationship. And she was the one pushing out the baby. She was the one playing the game. All I had to do is feed her ice chips and cheer her on. I did not want to faint.

Oh, Kevin. You know, it didn't take me long. Once we were in the hospital, I realized, oh, we're in a medical facility right here. We're surrounded by professionals. And there wasn't much I had to worry about. They had it covered. I had the same feeling. It's that idea of there are people here who know what they're doing. It's not all on me to get through this. I can have support. I did see Julie in a lot of pain, and that was really hard.

But when she got the epidural, we were in good shape. And the birth went well. Mom and baby were healthy. And it was great. That's awesome. Hey, Maisie. Are you excited for your baby brother? Yeah

And so fast forward a few years later You and your wife Julie had a baby boy, Willie And in the days leading up to his birth, you kept an audio diary Are you going to be a great big sister? No You're not going to be a great big sister? No No?

Are you going to help feed him bottles? Yeah Yeah? If he cries, she needs a bottle. I was much more chill when Willie came around. When Julie was pregnant, I forgot that she was pregnant sometimes. But we were so busy with a three-year-old and I was so busy at work that I didn't have this existential dread and delight before Willie was born. Once I was a little closer to his birth, I did start to get really nervous. It's currently Wednesday morning.

We think possibly mommy's water broke. We're not sure. We're all very anxious. We're ready to get the show on the road. Who knows, in a few hours, I could have another beautiful little weirdo to take care of it's just amazing how I think with the second you already have answers to so many of the unknowns and you just feel so much more prepared in a way that you can't you can't prepare unless you've gone through it right so yeah it's a completely different experience I mean right down to the minutiae like how am I gonna make the milk know, how does a pump work? Like all these things I didn't know.

And then you have your second and all of that learning curve, you've gone through it and you don't realize you've gone through it until Mark came. And I was like, oh, this is, I know this is what you do now. Yeah. We felt the same way with Maisie. We were obsessed with all the details before she was born of what to do, how to change a diaper, how to pump. And after she was born, it was a punch to the face because all those tactical things are pretty easy to learn, but it's the emotional experience and trying to balance work and life and trying to do well at work when you're incredibly tired. Those are the things that are really hard to go through the first time.

I am going to say something. Are you going to hold it? Yeah. Don't press any of the buttons. Come here. Okay. What did you do today? Oh, I did a lot of work.

I woke up very early. As a father of two, I've been in this game for, you know, four plus years. And I forget what it's like to have never gone through this experience before. Absolutely. I think just the anticipation of knowing the baby's coming any minute and you're finally going to meet your baby, you know, all of that optimism, all of that just unknown. It's such a unique point in history, in your own personal life. It's hard to even explain the feelings that are going through your mind, which is why I jumped at the opportunity to speak with someone on the brink of parenthood. A few days before our colleague Eleni Mata's due date, she was busy preparing to take parental leave, a few months away from her multimedia producer work. But she took a quick

break to tell me the thoughts and feelings going through her mind. Eleni's now the mother of a baby girl I'm happy to report. We spoke over video in March and she shared with me her hopes, concerns, and questions about how this baby's arrival was about to change her life. Eleni, it is so nice to see you during this very exciting time. I'm sure you are counting down the days. Yeah, literally. I'm so curious as to when she's going to come. Yes. Because she's so ready, like in position. So she's so in position. So I'm just like nervous. Any sort of pain or movement I feel, I'm like thinking in my head, like, is this it? Is this what's happening? Is she deciding now that this is when she's coming? And it's like, am I prepared? Is this what's happening? Is she deciding now that this is when she's coming?

And it's like, am I prepared? Are you working up until like, what is your plan for work right now? To work up until the day she decides to. Okay. I mean, I think I'm very fortunate in the sense that it's mostly just me doing check-ins, making sure nobody needs anything from me, doing meetings to make sure that whatever I have is transitioning to the next person or any sort of unfinished business is finished. I really appreciate this. And I think it's appropriate, like this calm before the storm. thing. Did you feel that way when you were heading out? Like things were kind of slowing down or did you feel that things were still kind of coming at you? I think, you know, the first baby I was basically what you're describing, like trying to wrap everything up, but also feeling like there's this calm before the storm. I have no idea what's about to happen. And it's all so unknown. Whereas with Mark, that's my baby boy, almost to a fault. I feel like I almost waited too long. I was basically in labor and I was still going. That is not a lesson I want to

impart. Being at home, having no boundaries almost helped that happen. You know, I almost was like, oh, this isn't labor. This is just, you know, those weird pains that you have. And then I'm like, no, this is getting worse and worse. That's what I'm afraid of. That's literally what I'm afraid of. Like, oh, this feels uncomfortable. Right. But I don't know if this is just like the uncomfort that I've been feeling the past couple of days or is this like the uncomfortable that I have to watch out for. So I will say when it really is kicking into high gear, you will know. So don't worry about that. That's what I've been told. Like, I will definitely know. Yes. In terms of preparing for leave remotely, knowing that you're going to be on leave when everybody's remote and not knowing when or if we'll be back in the office when you do come back,

I'm curious how you're thinking about all of that as well. I see it going like 50-50. I either want to stay home and just so I can be around her all the time. But I feel like that may come with some difficulties emotionally. If I start working from home and she's like in another room. And so the other side is like, let me just go to work so I can have a different change of pace. Because I've been inside for the past, like my entire pregnancy, I've just been inside. I like not isolated, but I'm considered vulnerable. So I can't like do things. And I'm an extrovert. Like I love being around people. And I love talking to them. You know what I mean? Like like all I can say is that you cannot prepare for how you'll

be feeling and I think daily that changes too like one day you will want to be I think you know have a clear boundary and be like I just want to get this thing done without having to worry about why she's crying and yeah and then the next minute you going to absolutely not want to leave. So it's a constant, fluid, changing, evolving phase, as is, I guess, all of parenthood, really. What does the future hold for business? Can someone please invent a crystal ball? Until then, over 40,000 businesses have future-proofed their business with NetSuite by Oracle, the number one cloud ERP, bringing accounting, financial management, inventory, and HR into one platform. With real-time insights and forecasting, you're able to peer into the

future and seize new opportunities. Download the CFO's Guide to AI and Machine Learning for free at netsuite.com slash women at work. That's netsuite.com slash women at work. Hey listeners, if you want to hear from more leaders to help you answer questions like, should I talk about my anxiety at work? Or how do I claim my leadership power? Then you should listen to TED Business, hosted by Columbia Business School professor Madhupe Akinnola. The show features TED Talks about everything from setting smart goals to the latest on

DEI in business, followed up with a mini lesson from Mudupe on how to apply these lessons in your own life. Listen to TED Business wherever you get your podcasts. I want to just go back to what you were saying too in terms of what it will be like when she arrives and whether you want to go to the office or be home and what that will look like. And I'm grateful that I gave it time. And I think this, especially with Claire, my first, everything felt so, so hard at the beginning. And at that point, obviously we were at work, sitting at my desk, missing her. And it was so easy just to say like, I can't do this. It's way too hard. I feel way too conflicted in terms of where I should be and how I should be as a mom, as a worker. And what has helped me is taking a step back and thinking

more holistically about who I am and even just more long-term about who I want to be. And there is this metric, Daisy Dowling mentions it actually in one of her articles. And she talks about using today plus 20 years thinking, which I find really helpful. And it basically means that you're thinking 20 years from now in terms of the problem. So like if you're missing your child, you're thinking, wait, I'm missing her right now. But 20 years from now, what will she be thinking about me sticking it out and working hard and being an example for her? So it's been interesting. It's been like an interesting, like mind game trying to get through the days because

I will say immediate problems and challenges are constant. So it's helpful to kind of take a step back and to think more broadly about like, where am I and where am I going? And how can I do this as a working mom? Yeah. And a lot of like, who am I? Yes. Yes. Who am I? What am I doing? Especially as a first time mom, I feel like it's absolutely a lot. If you had to pinpoint, what are you most nervous about in terms of having the baby and work together? My biggest worry is balancing and setting boundaries because I feel like I already know that I'm going to need time past maternity leave to really get used to that transition. It's like starting a new job. Like you don't really expect you to be absolutely perfect at your role and know all the procedures and rules and who to talk to

and what your job actually consists of for only three months, you know? So it's kind of trying to figure out the balance of, okay, I have to now start to work and get back into gear. And I have to stop myself from being like, okay, let's get back to where I left. Like I actually have to be like, I don't want to go back to where I left because now things are different. I have a different mentality and maybe my ideas are different. So there's that. And then there's just setting boundaries with like other people at work and my close knit of just,

I can't do that right now or I'm kind of tired or, and that was something I needed to practice during this whole working from home and then being pregnant and a lot of other things of like being okay with saying like, sorry, I can't do that. Or like, I don't want my camera on or like, yes, sorry, not sorry. Yes, exactly. I need some space. That's my biggest worry is just

setting up boundaries and also listening to myself and saying like, can I actually do this? Or is this idea or this task sounds really good in theory, but I have to actually think like, do I have the mental energy or the physical energy to do this? Or? Yes. I mean, everything you're saying resonates so much with me because I feel like it's a constant struggle in terms of figuring out what you want to project almost, right? Because it is a vulnerable place to say, you know what, I can't get it done. I actually have a sick baby at home and I can't focus on this. And when Claire went to daycare, right when I went back to work, and I just dealt with one illness after another with her. And I feel like there's this pressure to be right back

to where you were before and able to kind of run with it. And you feel like I can't actually, because there's one curveball after another when you have a child and you can't predict what's going to happen. And to your point, it's something to think about. And I also will say something that you can't prepare for. If I could just tell you one thing, it's almost like you're going to be fantastic. You're going to do great. It's just you need to be able to be in that place. And then once you're in that place, just giving yourself the space to do what you need in order to feel like you are doing the best that you can. Yeah, it's just hard because I feel like you could feel guilty on two sides. Like you could feel guilty towards your job for like, yeah, okay, you're being so flexible with me and you're and you're letting me have this time. But like, there's a task that needs to be done that you probably need my input on, or you probably need, like, you need me to look at. And I'm sorry, I can't do it. But like, you feel guilty that you're not giving them time. But then once you give them time,

you feel guilty that you're not giving your kid time and they want, you know, it's like, you're balancing like two different worlds. One that you've become already so accustomed to before and one that you are learning how to live now. Yes. But Erica, did you feel guilty at all? Like, did you have that weird balancing act? Did you feel any guilt? Yes. Oh my goodness, Eleni. Yes. I so wish that I could tell you that it doesn't happen and that it's easier than you think it will be. But I have to admit that it was all, I hate to be the Debbie Downer, but harder than I thought it was going to be. I really had this feeling, you know, before I had Claire where I was like, you know what, I'm going to get my ducks in a row. I'm going to get

the childcare. I'm going to get everything I need set up. And I'll be able to go into the office and I'll be able to do what I need to do. And I really didn't prepare or know just the emotional aspect of it was so big for me in terms of feeling that just a real guilt for not being with her. And it was compounded by the fact that my daughter and you know, she's three, so she's still, she's still strong willed, but she wasn't eating. So she wouldn't take a bottle during the day at daycare. So I was dealing with a child that wasn't eating during the day and so was eating all night. And it really felt like I wasn't succeeding in either department because I had a baby that was starving when I'd come pick her up at work. I was exhausted because I was awake all night.

So I was functioning on like two hours of sleep probably my first six months back to work. It was a lot harder. And the guilt and the constant feeling, like you described, of I'm not doing my job well enough. I'm not being a good enough of a mom. And I think what has helped me, and I know we've published a number of articles on this, has been reframing it. So instead of looking at it as being an either or, looking at it as more of an expansion of who you are, it's not like I'm a good mom, you know, and I'm a bad worker or vice versa.

It's just I'm expanded my role to be fuller and more whole. And again, I will say what really helped me was I kept telling myself, think long term, think long term. Like right now, this is very easy to make a decision based off of how I'm feeling in this moment, but try to think long-term. And that really did help me get through the hardest days. Wow. That is like the complete opposite of what I'm like learning how to think, which is crazy. Oh my, but did you feel like now that you're working, I mean, the environment is different. You're not commuting to work anymore.

Like your son is there. And so is my toddler. Yeah, yeah. Like you can see your kids at any time that you have a break or if there's nothing on your schedule. Like was that feeling the same transitioning working from home or did it feel a little bit different? So it's immensely different. The biggest silver lining has been being able to just close the door and be in my room and be able to work this way, knowing that I'll see the kids basically as soon as I'm finished working. The cons, you know, the cons of just having the noise and the distraction at the beginning has, you know, it takes a toll emotionally, I will say. Like the transition to working with a nanny who's fantastic, like truly a fantastic, fantastic person.

She did everything she could to make the transition easier, but it still was tough. My daughter was still screaming, screaming, screaming her head off every time I had to come upstairs or every time, you know, I came down for lunch and I had to come upstairs. We were dealing with full on the world is ending screaming for over an hour. And just the wrenching feeling of having to close the door and put on noise-canceling headphones knowing that she's at the bottom of the stairs wanting to come in, it's like unnatural, right? It's unnatural for a mom to have to do that. And I'm sure Claire, I don't want to think about it, but I'm sure she was screaming so much at daycare when she was refusing the bottle. But in some ways it was more abstract, right? I didn't see her screaming. I was at work. I had a boundary. I was thinking about her, but it wasn't in my face as it is right now. So that's all the negative I would say in terms of like how hard it has been.

But the major positive is that I'm able to nurse Mark. I'm not dealing with all of the pumping and the storing of the milk and the, you know, with Claire, I got mastitis right away. I'm not dealing with all of the pumping and the storing of the milk and the, you know, with Claire, I got mastitis right away. I wasn't making enough, my supply dipped, like all those things that can happen going back into the office didn't happen this time around. And it's purely because I have been able to be home. So I would say that's a major silver lining to all of this that I wouldn't have predicted. What does the future hold for business? Can someone please invent a crystal ball? Until then, over 40,000 businesses have future-proofed their business with NetSuite by Oracle, the number one cloud ERP, bringing accounting, financial management, inventory, and HR into one platform. With real-time insights and

forecasting, you're able to peer into the future and seize new opportunities. Download the CFO's Guide to AI and Machine Learning for free at netsuite.com slash women at work. That's netsuite.com slash women at work? Have you thought about reentry? I'm just curious where your mind is at thinking about once the little baby is actually here. I don't know. I'm honest with you. It's too much.

Yeah, I kind of just want to go with the flow so bad. So I want to be like, okay, I want to go in and I want to at least do these two or three things to sort of help me transition back. But that's it. Like I remember even trying to figure out how to manage working from home. I remember one person told me like, well, I just write a to-do list of this is like the one thing I'm going to do that day. And if I get that done, then that's cool. I'm like, you know what? Like that would be my mentality throughout the entire thing. Like I love my position. I love my job. I love storytelling. I love creating content. I'm excited to see what having a daughter is going to be like in terms of thinking differently

and how to make people feel more connected and creating that relatability for others. Eleni, I just want to say thank you so much for taking the time, the precious few minutes, days that you have before a new baby arrives. Thank you so much, Eleni time, the precious few minutes, days that you have before a new baby arrives. Thank you so much, Eleni. No, this has been awesome. Claire, I have a question for you. What? What do you think Mommy's doing upstairs when she's doing her podcast?

What is she doing? I talk to a work friend. Am I talking into... A microphone. A microphone? Maisie, come over here for a sec. What do you think about Daddy and his podcast? Boring.

Oh. What would I do to make it less boring? Could I sing? Yeah. What song Could I sing? Yeah. What song should I sing? Next time on the show, we hear from a couple in Israel where the majority of people have been vaccinated against COVID-19. Mom's a child psychologist and dad's an infectious disease

doctor. They describe how their family is adjusting to society slowly reopening there. And they offer advice for other parents soon to be managing that same transition. How do you imagine your life changing as more people get vaccinated and post-pandemic working parenthood take shape? Which expected changes do you eagerly await and which are you dreading? Tell us by calling 617-783-7861 and leaving a voicemail message. Please include your name, country, and industry. We'll play several of the messages we receive in next week's show. Family Management's editorial and production team is Amanda Kersey, Maureen Hoke, Tina Tobey-Mack, Adam Buchholz, and Rob Eckhart. Email us at familymanagement at hbr.org.

Claire, is there anything else you want to tell my work friends or anybody listening to this podcast? Do you want to say... Please, please, please, no. I love my mommy. Oh, Claire, I love that. I love you too, honey bun. I love you.