Women at Work - The Art of Claiming Credit

Episode Date: October 22, 2018

Women have to work harder to be recognized for our ideas. And that recognition is essential for getting the assignments and the promotions we deserve — for moving our careers forward. We talk about how to present an idea in a group so that you come out owning it. Next, we cover how to respond when someone takes credit for your work. Guests: Amy Jen Su and Amy Gallo.

Over 40,000 businesses have future-proofed their business with NetSuite by Oracle, the number one cloud ERP, bringing accounting, financial management, inventory, and HR into one platform. Download the CFO's Guide to AI and Machine Learning for free at netsuite.com slash women at work. A while back, we asked you to tell us about your experience with getting credit for your work. In leadership meetings, in team meetings, there's a male colleague who over several years has a habit of getting the last word in where I've already expressed an idea or an opinion. And ultimately, what is really maddening about this is that I participate in these meetings. And for some reason, he is heard more than I am. He's the one who in the meeting gets credit from other colleagues for having come up with that idea.

I honestly don't even know if he realizes he's doing it. And I'd love to be able to figure out how to address it. So my strategy was to show up prepared. So when he brought it up, I said, Jeff, thanks so much for surfacing this. I'm really glad that you're, you know, seeing the value in this approach we discussed. Now let me distribute three to five ways we might go about it. And I handed out a stack of one ppagers. It was not an angry outburst, but it was a way to say, hey, buddy, this idea was mine. One of you told a story that we just had to share at length. It's about what happened when a guy she worked with stole the spotlight from her. Here she is. He would often take credit in small doses, but take credit for other people's

work or overhear someone say something and then at the meeting where in front of the VPs, he would say that instead so that it seemed like his idea. And these things, there wasn't enough that were blatant or outright obtrusive to call out until something happened to me. There was this one project I got assigned to and I gave it my all. I mean, I really put my heart and soul into this, trying out new initiatives, new incentives. And at the end of the day, it was very successful. Her organization celebrated the project's success at a ceremony. Their president got on stage and thanked the people who worked on it. Then he asked them to join him up there. So once the president said that, I started to stand up in my seat and was going to

move towards the front of the stage, which is where I would appropriately be seeing that this was my project. But before I could even do that, for sake of anonymity, we'll call him Bill. Bill had already bolted from his seat and was halfway up the stage. And I wasn't even sure initially why he was doing that. And then it dawned on me, he's just going to go up there and blatantly take credit for my work. I'm pretty sure that he didn't even know a single name of one of the other people involved in this project, but he very boldly stood up on stage. He gave a speech like it had been planned. The photographers were there. The president shook his hand. It was just so insanely blatant. And I sat back down. I think I sat back down. I can't even remember. And I was fuming. I mean, I think my blood was actually boiling.

After the ceremony ended, she went for a walk to cool off and decide what to do next. Later on in the afternoon, after I had calmed down, I went and talked to my boss about it. She was senior in the organization, very wise woman. In fact, she'd worked on Wall Street for many years and had been in kind of the man's world. And she told me, I'm not going to say something. You're going to have to do it. This is time for you to step up. And I think if you feel like it, you need to say something. So I did it at the end of the day. I packed up my briefcase and I walked over to his office and knocked on the door.

And he says, oh, come on in. What's going on? I said, I don't want to come in. I'll stand in the doorway, thanks. And I said, what you did today was so unacceptable. I would appreciate if you stay away from my projects and do not take credit for anything else that you do not do. I don't know that he responded. I don't know if I even stayed around long enough to hear him respond.

I was just so shaken up. My body was physically shaking. I just turned around and walked to the car and I drove home. And I felt like I had stood up for myself for the first time as a very young female in a male-dominated world. And I was so proud that I had done that. It didn't give me the credit that I felt like I deserved in that specific situation. But since then, I feel like I did it once and I could do it again if I needed to. You're listening to Women at Work from Harvard Business Review.

I'm Amy Bernstein. I'm Nicole Torres. And I'm Sarah Green Carmichael. This episode, we're talking about how to get the recognition we deserve for the work we're proud of. Amy Bernstein takes credit for your ideas. So you want to assess motivation, and then you want to appeal to a sense of fairness. But first, let's look at where this all starts. Long before you get recognized for a great idea, you have to say what that idea is, often in front of a group. These are those moments in a meeting when we sense what we're about to say and how we say it might affect how our colleagues see us

and whether our idea is going to go anywhere. Will they see that in suggesting a new course of action or pointing out a problem, we're trying to lead change? The research says it depends on who's talking. For instance, men are seen as leaders when they offer suggestions to their team, but women aren't. Another study showed that women get less credit for teamwork, especially when we work with men.

Amy Jen Su has thought a lot about how we women can put our ideas out there so that people know they're ours. She's a managing partner and co-founder of the executive coaching firm Paravis Partners. She co-wrote the book Own the Room, Discover Your Signature Voice to Master Your Leadership Presence. I started by asking her, what are some clues that you're not getting the credit you deserve for the good work you're doing? You're in a conversation with somebody and you think you're working on something significant or you have been, and somehow you sense that others are surprised

as if they are taken aback that you're doing something bigger than they would expect that you were able to do. So I think if you're starting to sense that from your key stakeholders, that's definitely a clue. I think, too, if you start to feel like your career is stalling out or that you're burning out, those are also two important places to pause and say, hmm, on the stall out piece, why am I being passed up for certain opportunities? And then on the burnout side, am I so exhausted where I'm just doing, doing, doing, and really not getting the credit for it that I deserve? Amy, I'm curious to know if you have these clues that you're not maybe not getting the credit that you deserve or you're not claiming

credit for yourself. How do you change that? How do you do that artfully? Yeah, I think the art of claiming credit, I love that word artfully. You know, I think it begins with actually the way you prepare. I think oftentimes we have the faulty assumption and mindset that we can just wing it. And so I think, you know, before any important meeting or if you're in a high stakes situation or somewhere you're going to be visible, you know, I always say to my clients, make sure you're prepared in a way so that you look like you're on the fly. You know, have some nuggets in your back pocket so that you can speak in real time and give thought to if you were going to drop in some ideas or share some things you've been working on, you know, have

given that some thought. What are some three to five things before heading into a meeting that you feel convicted in or that you're excited about? And then I think part two of that preparation is just to make sure that you're artful in considering your audience. You know, who's going to be in the room? Who am I speaking to? What does he or she care about? And make sure that you're framing accordingly. For example, there's a big difference if I said, you know, hey, Sarah, Amy, and Nicole, guess what? I talked to five customers this week. You know, I just wonder, as I say that to the three of you, kind of what's your reaction? It would seem a little, if we hadn't been talking about anything else, then it might seem a little out of nowhere.

Right, right. So sometimes we think, oh, I'm trying to find that perfect moment to drop in getting credit for something. It can feel like it's out of left Nicole, you can't believe the trend I've been hearing this week out in the marketplace. You know, I spoke to five of our top customers this week, and all of them reported that our competitors are starting to cut prices to get share. You know, maybe we should call a meeting to talk about this as a team. So much better. That's so much better. Because there's also a point to it. There's like a call to action or some reason for you to share that.

It's like, oh, we need to decide what to do about this. Right, right. So when we say, you know, claim credit, it's not this out of the blue, no context. I'm just focused on myself trying to find that moment to share with you what I did on my to do list. And instead, I'm looking for those moments where I'm lifting up and out of the noise of my work and saying, how can I add value? How can I share about something I've learned that actually helps to move the business forward? How do you know that the person you're talking to, your manager, your manager's manager, is actually open to hearing this? It seems like some people are sometimes, and then there are some people who just aren't really interested in credit one way or the other. I mean, that's tricky, right? Boss dynamics. I think then the other arsenal in our toolkit then would be shaping questions. You know, sometimes there are folks

who'd rather hear themselves speak than aren't great listeners, but we can still show up with tremendous presence and show contribution and insight by showing our critical thinking through asking questions. So, for example, I think sometimes we can get a little too short term or operationally focused on the activities of today that might get us there. And instead, you know, having a dialogue with our boss or others around what success look like, what do benchmarks tell us, what are our options here, what are the risks and trade-offs, trying to draw them into the dialogue and make it a two-way thing, getting really curious about, hmm, this doesn't seem to be resonating. You know, what is on your

mind about the market so that the next time I'm with our clients, I'm asking the right questions? One of our listeners who emailed us about a time a manager had taken credit for her idea wrote that, I convinced myself that getting credit wasn't the point and so it didn't matter. Of course, it does matter and it always has. And that comment really struck me because I got some advice earlier in my career that was, you'll be amazed by how much you get done if you stop caring about getting credit and just let other people think it's their idea. And, you know, you'll be able to have a lot more influence. Where do you come down on this continuum of how much is it OK to really claim the credit and how much is it advised to let other people think it's their idea?

Yeah, it's such a great question. I mean, I think that it's really this balance. You should think about it more in terms of taking responsibility and ownership for your work and ideas, making sure that at every moment we can, we're demonstrating our ability to strategically inform or storytell or be comfortable in our visibility. I think when we're claiming credit, we're really trying to make sure that the organization and our teams are leveraging our highest and best use and our highest value add to the organization. So I think for those reasons, it's important to think about it and to find a way to do it that feels authentic. And at the same time, I think today's organizations, it is important to also be a team player and to know when to pick those spots.

I think where we get into trouble is I've seen many of my clients actually have an allergic reaction to it because it can be so confusing. And, in fact, I've had some clients say to me they feel angry about it. It feels like it's asking you to be political or Machiavellian. So I think step one is we just need to make sure that we're not framing it as claiming credit is equal to bragging or self-promotion or being that colleague we can't stand, but instead just really remembering to didn't get credit and now I have to go out and get it. And more just about owning your space. Why do you think of it that way? Yeah, I think whenever we're reactive, it can feel like you're backed up on your heels. It can feel defensive.

And I way prefer to work with folks around what's the offense look like. I think as you walk through the world confident and clear in what you're doing, the difference you want to make, and really, again, informing people and sharing your contributions in a way where you aren't holding yourself back. I think in many ways you're just inherently credit is coming than, again, that sort of more reactive defensive posture. by Oracle, the number one cloud ERP, bringing accounting, financial management, inventory, and HR into one platform. With real-time insights and forecasting, you're able to peer into the future and seize new opportunities. Download the CFO's Guide to AI and Machine Learning for free at netsuite.com slash women at work. That's netsuite.com slash women at work. Hey listeners, if you want to hear from more leaders to help you answer questions like, should I talk about my anxiety at work? Or how do I claim my leadership power? Then you should listen to TED Business, hosted by Columbia Business School professor, Madhupe Akinnola. The show features TED Talks about everything from setting smart goals to the latest on DEI in business, followed

up with a mini lesson from Madhupe on how to apply these lessons in your own life. Listen to TED Business wherever you get your podcasts. So there's a lot of research finding that women get less credit than men for the same work, but women also get less credit when they're working with men on the same projects. If you are a woman finding yourself working with mostly men on something, what can you do to set yourself up so you're getting your fair share of credit? If you find yourself in that situation, you know, first make sure to be proactive versus reactive. And very specifically, I think the key skill to keep in mind is am I

making clear requests that I need to along the way? You know, for example, one of my clients is co-leading a project right now with a male colleague who's very strong and dominant in personality. And so she's had to be very clear on, hey, it would be great to be included on those sets of calls or make sure you send me the agenda in advance and I'll add my thoughts to it. Hey, Joe, you know, let's talk in advance on who's going to lead what part of the agenda so that we're a united front. So that would be one tip first is to be proactive versus reactive. I think the second is, is that as women, we just need to be more comfortable and aware of space. And space comes in many forms. You know,

it can be when you walk in a room, not being shy to pick a chair that's in the flow of the conversation or even the head of the table, if you're one of the co-leads. Be mindful of your volume, depending on the size of the room. Make sure your voice gets out there in the first third of the meeting so that you can be heard. Oftentimes, you know, people will unconsciously notice if you're one who can hold your boundaries. And if they sense that you can't, they will take your share of error and they will interrupt you. So in some ways, we need to signal, hey, that's not okay. So do you coach women differently about speaking up about an idea versus speaking up about a problem? sounding like a naysayer or Debbie Downer. You know, I think sometimes what's happening is that

we're so good, right, as women, we want to fix things, we solve problems. Sometimes we're the person who's helped to figure out how to execute that we've jumbled the what and the how. And I think part of speaking up is making sure that first as a leader or as a teammate that we're giving our business judgment on the what of the idea before we start to go down the path of all the reasons of why the how is going to be hard. I was recently talking to a chief human resources officer who keeps bumping up against this with her boss, the CEO, who happens to be someone who loves new ideas and the art of the possible. And when I interviewed him for her 360, she said he felt like that every time he raised an idea with her,

her first knee-jerk reaction was all the reasons it wouldn't work or all the potential risks. And so she and I, you know, really worked together to say, you know, how could she first respond to the what of what he was sharing, get excited with him about it, really look beyond the horizon, look at a different time frame on the business. And then, you know, in successive conversations, then bring her prowess and insight around the how and how to get over some of the obstacles to achieving that goal. We've heard from some listeners, both that if you have an idea, you should research it well and share it with people in various forms. The more ideas you share, the more credit you receive. We've also heard from some people that they were afraid to share their good ideas because they were kind of afraid of other people basically stealing them and then regretting that they had kind of let fear hold them back because what ends up

happening is sometimes those ideas get stolen anyway and then you don't get any of the credit at all. So what do you say to women who are hesitant about sharing their ideas or who may be sharing a ton of ideas kind of in hopes of getting credit? I would say, you know, for our women listeners here today to think about the great ideas you have, if you've researched them well, what's your go-to market socialization plan of that idea, right? On the one hand, you don't want to just be sort of haphazardly out there talking about it, where you do risk somebody perhaps taking your idea. And you also don't want to just sit in your R&D lab, you know, in an ivory tower, not bringing your

idea to market. So I think a few things you can do is number one, map out who are the important people to get this idea in front of? Who are the people who you value their perspective and judgment who would be able to offer you a great perspective to eventually have this idea really manifest or become a goal that's achievable. And then I think when you are sitting down to speak to folks, share it with confidence and openness. You might say something like, Hey, Nicole, you know, I have this idea and I'd love to run it by you.

I've always valued your perspective and your judgment. You know, am I missing anything here? Let's say there's someone whose recognition you'd like to have. How do you do a follow-up conversation with that person without feeling kind of icky and gross? Yeah, no, that one's tough, right? When maybe you've been in the presence of somebody that you feel like you don't often get that opportunity and you didn't fully share what you were hoping to share. And so I think to avoid the ick factor, it is important to pause and kind of say to yourself, you know, is this the right time? Is this the right time for a follow-up? And I think the key question you might ask yourself is, you know,

was there something in the information I was hoping to share or that I wish I had shared that would be beneficial or important to the other person having that? And I think if the answer is no, you know, you might just let it go or it will feel icky. I think if the answer is yes, then you might, you know, check that person's calendar, make sure they're showing an open block and then just pop in their office and say, hey, you know, that was such a great meeting. And the point you raised about X or Y got me thinking about some additional information that might be helpful to you. And then share that piece of information. But I do think there's some discernment on whether to pick that spot again. If you, you know, if the best course of action is to let something go, how do you avoid feeling resentful or discouraged that work you've put in is not going to be recognized? Right. I mean, I hope one of the takeaways is we all need to stop beating ourselves up. So number one, I just think some self-compassion. We're not always going to get this right. I think with anything, when you think of self-awareness, there's always retrospective awareness first, where we're catching it after the fact, which I

think is a great step in self-awareness. And then I think we move from self-awareness to saying, okay, I don't want that to become a trend or pattern. How do I get in front of it? How do I change the way I prepare for another situation down the road that looks like this so that doesn't happen again. And then over time, I think we move from retrospective awareness to prospective awareness to being able to then in the moment, just find that right, perfect moment and put it out there. So one of our listeners told us that she's reached a point as a manager where it's more important for her to see her direct reports get recognition than it is for her to get it herself. She wrote to us, I like to see my team be in the spotlight where I sit proud in the back of the room. At what point can we shift from worrying about getting credit to focusing more on making sure the people around us get credit?

Yeah, I mean, I love that listener sentiment, right? Don't we all wish we had a boss like that? Yeah, that's a good boss. It's a sign of a good boss. Yeah, a great boss. And so I think in the course of a career, the answer is probably an and. There are probably, as you're advancing, arenas where you've reached your level of comfort, where you really aren't proving yourself anymore. And everybody knows you're good in those arenas where we can shift to paying it forward for our teams and making sure that others get those opportunities and others get the spotlight and that we are celebrating the we. But I think for all of us, there's always the next arena, a next room, a next table. Even when I work with C-level women executives, while perhaps they no longer feel like they need to claim credit in their role or even in their company, I then start to see those patterns show up again in the boardroom or in their efforts for greater external

visibility. So for non-managers, if someone on your team isn't getting the credit they deserve, can you do anything to help? Can you fix that? Yeah, I think just being good teammates to other folks is, again, the balance of I versus we. So if you notice one of your colleagues doesn't speak up or you know has done a lot of the work and you want to make sure that others know that. I think it's always really lovely when, right, colleagues acknowledge each other's work and appreciate each other in the room or, you know, saying, hey, Nicole, you and I worked on this. Did you want to add your thoughts here at this point? I think in really trusted relationships where we can pinpoint or give specific feedback when you notice somebody's not speaking up. You know, you might go to someone's office, hey, Sarah, after the meeting, I know you and I've

chatted and you have great ideas there, but you didn't share them. You know, is there anything I can do to help in that arena? Because I would love to hear everybody hear the great ideas I get to hear when we're one-on-one together. And is there anything to add there if you are the person's manager? I mean, if you are really trying to coach someone on this and you're doing every, you think you might be doing everything you can to get people on your team the credit they deserve, but if there's someone you know is just consistently overlooked and they're a really good player, how can you help lift them up? Yeah, I mean, I think there, you know, as a manager, you have to say, wow, this is a real development opportunity. And you might have to have that feedback conversation

where you share with them, you know, I want the rest of the world and organization to see what I see, right? Sometimes it's the diamond in the rough on our team that nobody else appreciates. A lot of times the sponsors of coaching engagements are those very managers who say, gosh, when you work with this person, you realize their value. But for whatever reason, when they're in a group setting or when they're with senior management, they're not showing up in the way that myself or a smaller team sees. So I think in those cases, I would make it a development goal. I would support that person with whatever training or coaching they need and to actually be manager's coach to help them grow in that way. Well, Amy, this has been such an interesting and inspiring

conversation. Oh, thank you. Thank you for joining us today. Yes. Thank you. Thanks, Amy. Bye. Thanks, everyone. It was great to talk to you. Thanks you for joining us today. Yes, thank you. Thanks, Amy. Bye. Thanks, everyone. It was great to talk to you. Thanks for having me. What does the future hold for business? Can someone please invent a crystal ball? Until then, over 40,000 businesses have future-proofed their business with NetSuite by Oracle, the number one cloud ERP, bringing accounting, financial management, inventory, and HR into one platform. With real-time insights and

forecasting, you're able to peer into the future and seize new opportunities. Download the CFO's guide to AI and machine learning for free at netsuite.com slash women at work. That's netsuite.com slash women at work. That's netsuite.com slash women at work. As a group, do we think that strategic informing is a good idea? I think it's a really important skill. It's a really important political skill to learn. It is hard to do it well. But I think if you want to make sure that you keep climbing in your career, it is something that you have to learn how to do. I totally agree. I totally agree. I think it's super hard to pull

off without sounding, you know. And it might make you feel icky. Yes. But I think it can help you learn to prioritize moments when you should be advocating for yourself or, you know, focusing on getting recognition. And you'll know when you should do that, like when it's very important and when it's not so important and you don't have to worry about it. I think you're so right about that. And I think it will teach you to take the measure of your listener as well and to pick your moments better. Yeah. Right? Yeah.

That is a skill. Yeah. I tend to not do strategic informing, at least consciously. I tend to share things randomly when I'm excited about them, which is maybe not the way to go. That's earnest informing. Yeah. That's strategic informing. And you know, you can recognize when it's earnest and heartfelt and authentic and and it's impossible not to feel good for the person who's, you know, who's just feeling great about the discovery, the conversation, the idea.

And it's an impulse. You want to enjoy someone else's accomplishment, right? Yes. And I feel like I do that too, but not always. So something that has helped me is my coworker who sits next to me. He is someone I talk to when I'm excited about something that happens at work. And so I'll usually tell him like, oh, this crazy thing happened. I had this amazing call with a researcher. I got good news. And he's like, you should tell our boss. And I'm like, why? But he says, because it's an exciting piece of news and it's great for us.

And I'll share that with Sarah or Maureen and they'll respond excitedly too. It's also so great as a boss to hear that you're excited about something you're working on, which is always gratifying. And also like as a boss, people do often bring you their problems. So it is really exciting when someone's just like, hey, this awesome thing just happened. It's like, yay, victory. But also those things that you think are little, they're just exciting in the moment, aren't all that little in all likelihood. And it's the stuff that informs the kinds of conversations that your boss is having with her boss. You know, Nicole just talked to so-and-so and is getting a great article out of that conversation. That's important information.

It's all part of understanding what the organization is up to, and it's important as a manager to know who's loving her work. That's good for everyone. You're kind of doing everyone a favor, if you want to think about it that way. I do. To share that kind of information. This goes back to my favorite point, which is, you know, get over yourself.

It's not always about you. Even when it's about you, because you're part of a team and because you're a member of an organization, even the stuff that feels like it's about you actually is about the greater good when it's something like that. Yeah. about you actually is about the greater good when it's something like that. It's stressful to call a colleague out on taking credit for your work,

which is why we've brought in an expert on difficult conversations to talk us through how to stand our ground. Amy Gallo is the author of the HBR Guide to Dealing with Conflict, and she's here with answers to our questions. Okay, so if I'm working with someone on a project and, you know, our manager thanks that other person and not me, do I call them out right then and there? Do I say something? Well, if your manager is crediting someone else for your work, it's very uncomfortable to say, nope, that was me, right? It's really hard to raise your hand and interrupt. Usually in that moment, you want to take a pause, especially because you might be emotional. All difficult conversations, we want to watch for that stress response where we're being reactive instead of making a thoughtful decision. So you

might want to step back. Maybe that's go back to your desk. Maybe that's wait till tomorrow and sort of assess what's going on. How important is it that you actually get credit? And that's one thing to consider. This is not a tit for tat. This is not a competition who has more marks on the board. the project was, how egregious the credit taking was. Was it something that the other person didn't work on at all? Or was it something you worked on collaboratively? And yeah, sure, maybe they get credit. And maybe you've got credit for the past three projects you've worked on together, and it's that person's turn. You have to take it in context and really evaluate, is it important? And what are the risks and upsides of speaking up about it? Okay, but you're not suggesting that we just sort of absorb it and move along. I mean, there's a moment when you have done this evaluation. You say, no, this matters.

Then what do you do? In that moment, so you want to figure out what the motivation was. So if it's the person taking credit on your behalf or if it's your boss misattributing credit, figure out what the motivation was. Was it because they are trying to steal credit from you that you're going to have a different response if that's your boss misattributing credit, figure out what the motivation was. Was it because they are trying to steal credit from you that you're going to have a different response if that's the case? Was it an oversight? Was it simply a mistake?

If it's a mistake or an oversight, you can easily correct that with an email, right? Or even a comment in a meeting, just, hey, it's important that people know who worked on this project. I want people to understand that I had a hand in it as well as Jeff. We worked on this together. You might say that to your boss.

You might send an email that says, thanks so much for the kudos on the project. Jeff and I were both really thrilled with how it came out. You can do it a little more subtly as well. If it's egregious and it's clear that person is trying to take credit for something, you're going to handle that a little bit differently. And that's going to start with a private conversation with that person. And that's where you really need to understand their motivation. You might assume that they're being a jerk, but you need to figure out why did they do what they did. And that can be, hey, I noticed you said I in that

meeting instead of we when we worked on this project together. Was that intentional? And hopefully they're going to catch their mistake and say, oh, no, it wasn't intentional and offer to remedy it. Or you're going to have to have an intense conversation about why they chose to do it that way and how you can remedy. That sounds a little confrontational to me. I mean, is that the intention is to confront? I think the intention is to understand why if you well, let me step back for a second. Confrontational is all in the tone and your intention. So why did you do that, Sarah? Sounds very different than why did you do that, Sarah? Right? Like there's a sense of curiosity. And if you can be genuinely curious and get out of your mind that this person's a jerk who's

trying to make me look bad and really say, I'm not sure why he did this. I'd really like to understand why he did this. Then that tone's not going to be as confrontational. That said, there is an implication that you're telling this person they did something that's harmful to your career. And that in itself is confrontational. So you can choose either I'm not going to be confrontational and make things comfortable, or you can choose I'm going to get credit for my ideas. And I think the latter is a much more viable route for long-term success. Have you had to deal with this yourself? Was there a moment where you were like, I should have gotten credit for that thing.

Maybe I should say something. You know, it's never, I've never felt like someone actually stole it. I definitely felt like people didn't notice. And in fact, a project that I worked on here at HBR, it's something that became a long-term success for us. And I thought people sort of forgot that it had been my idea. And I remember having a conversation with the person who was responsible for this project, where I was entirely focused on when do I remind her that it was my

idea, right? But the problem was I was so obsessed with remembering that I wasn't actually listening to what she was saying. And so when I finally said, you remember, I came up with that idea, right? You know, it sounded petty, because I had not been listening. It wasn't contextual in the conversation. And she didn't really care. And it was an important lesson for me in that I should make sure my credit is taken all along. I shouldn't wait for a year later to make sure, right? I should have made sure it was clear to her that I was proud of that work. I was glad I came up with that idea, that I took pride in the success of that project on an ongoing basis rather than feeling like I had to sort of throw it in there. Well, it is tricky, though, because there are times when I haven't been entirely sure that someone has taken credit or especially if it's

like your boss and your job is in part to help them shine and you want to help them shine. Yeah. And I'm glad you brought up the boss thing, Sarah, because I do think it is part of your job to make your boss shine. So trying to constantly claim credit for your boss's successes is not going to do much for your boss in your relationship. You do want to keep in mind that success and credit should be shared appropriately. If you're noticing a pattern where your boss is constantly taking credit for your idea or a man on your team is constantly taking a credit for your idea, which the research shows is very likely to happen, then you want to make sure you address that pattern. And you want to just, then you want to make sure you address that pattern.

And you want to just make, you want to check in with yourself. Do I feel comfortable with the way credit has been shared and attributed here? What if you have the uncomfortable conversation with someone and they keep doing it? There are a couple things. One, you want to again assess what is the severity of the situation. Is the fact that they're doing over and over annoying? Or is it having consequences to your ability to succeed or get ahead? If there are consequences, and you've done everything we've talked about, you've gently said, I'm proud of that work, and people don't seem to be noticing, or you've even talked offline with that person, and they're not responding, you may need to escalate it to your boss or to that person's boss or maybe

to both of your bosses and say, this keeps happening. You can't assume managers know. Managers don't always have a great sense of who's doing what work, again, because it's so collaborative. So they may not know that this person's constantly taking your credit, and you might have to raise it to them and ask for their advice on how to best handle it. The other thing is you can, with someone, if you don't want to escalate, you can also start to proactively agree on how credit is going to be taken. And you might say, I know we all care about fairness, right? Appeal to a shared value or a shared goal.

I know we all care about fairness. Can we discuss up front how we're going to make sure everyone gets credit? And maybe that's everyone's name goes on the slide at the board presentation. Maybe you write the congratulatory email that everyone sends out about a project that went well, and you make sure whose names are going to go on that email. If you can agree on that upfront, you might sort of be able to preempt some of the stealing that might happen later. What do you do when you're a manager and either you observe this going on in a public setting or your direct report comes to you and says, you know, that guy took credit for our work or for my idea. What do you do?

I think you have to go through the same assessment that the individual would go through, right? What's the severity of this? Is this going to be consequential to this person's ability to get ahead in the organization, to their ability to do their job? It can be demotivating, of course, to not get credit. So, and then I think you need to have two separate conversations. You need to start with the credit stealer and ask, again, assess motivation. Is this an oversight? Is this a mistake? Because I would guess the majority of these situations are. They're not the real intentional wanting to harm someone else's career or even boost their own career. So you want to assess motivation. And then you want to appeal to a sense of fairness. And you can say it's my job as a manager to make sure that everything that happens on this team is fair. If you're getting credit for the project that you and Susie worked on together, that's not fair. So can you help me make sure that this is different in the future? And is this the person you want to be? Exactly. And I think raising it to the level of

your responsibility to the team, right? You don't want to pit them against each other. You don't want to make it, you know, you're both up for this promotion and whoever gets credit, right? You want to stay away from that competition. But what's the most team-oriented thing you can ask the person to do? Amy Gallo, thanks so much for joining us today. Thanks for inviting me. It was fun. Yeah, thank you. Thank you. No, thank you. Thank you. That's our show. I'm Amy Bernstein. I'm Nicole Torres. And I'm Sarah Green Carmichael.

Our producer is Amanda Kersey. Our audio product manager is Adam Buchholz. Maureen Hoke is our supervising editor. And we get production help from Rob Eckhart and Isis Madrid. Special thanks this week to Mary Du for her editorial input. Having your voices in the show expands our sense of what work is like for women. And we'd like to hear more from you for an upcoming episode about sisterhood.

We'll be talking in that episode about the importance of feeling connected to women who are different from us, whether it's their race, their age, their sexuality, or some other part of their identity. Because a lot of us don't feel all that connected to each other, and we want to talk about why. Email us, womenatwork at hbr.org, telling us a bit about

your experience with workplace sisterhood. And our producer, Amanda Kersey, will be in touch to see if she can record you talking about it for the show. Thanks for listening.