World Of Secrets - The Abercrombie Guys: 1. Silenced

Episode Date: October 2, 2023

Sometimes it only takes one person to speak, for others to be heard… An aspiring male model hopes a meeting with Abercrombie and Fitch’s former CEO could be a career break. But it is far from a dream opportunity. “It's probably the darkest experience I’ve ever dealt with,” he says. After reading a cryptic tweet, Rianna Croxford follows a trail which leads to the most intensive investigation of her career. MeToo has empowered women to speak out – now men say they want to be heard. This is World of Secrets - Season 1: The Abercrombie Guys, an investigation from BBC 5 Live and Panorama. Have you got a story to tell? Email [e-mail]. Let us know what you think of the season using the hashtag #WorldofSecretsThis podcast refers to sexual abuse and contains interviews that some listeners may find upsetting, as well as some occasional strong language. If you've been affected by any of the issues in this series, please contact support organisations in your own country. For a list of organisations in the UK that can provide support for survivors of sexual abuse, go to bbc.co.uk/actionline.World of Secrets: Season 1 - The Abercrombie Guys is presented and investigated by Rianna Croxford Series Producers: Ruth Evans and Alys Harte Senior Producer: Emma Close Development Producer: Hannah Livingston Investigation Editor: Ed Campbell Podcast Editor: Richard Fenton-Smith Executive Editor: Emma Rippon Studio Engineers: Neil Churchill, Andy Fell, Gareth Jones, and Ali Rezakhani Production Coordinators: Debbie Rainsford and Sophie Hill Commissioning Editor: Dylan Haskins Commissioning Executive: Louise Kattenhorn Assistant Commissioner: Natasha JohanssonArchive: Paramount Pictures: Mean Girls (2004) This podcast is made in collaboration with BBC Panorama. If you are in the UK, you can watch Panorama: The Abercrombie Guys: The Dark Side of Cool on BBC iPlayer now, or on BBC Select if you are in the in the US. World of Secrets: Season 1 - The Abercrombie Guys is a BBC Long Form Audio production for BBC Radio 5 Live and BBC Sounds.

This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK. BBC Sounds. Music, radio, podcasts. Hi, thanks for listening to World of Secrets. I'm Rhianna Croxford and before we start, I wanted to let you know that this episode contains references to sex and sexual violence. Models are actively the ones that are pushed into this and you're being thrown around like this piece of meat and that's literally how I felt the whole time, like a piece of meat in the most dehumanising way.

Sometimes it only takes one person to speak for others to be heard. I don't know if that's how every man that has gone through that experience feels, but that world has eaten up and spit out a lot of young and attractive guys, gay, straight and everything in between. But that first step can feel frightening when every instinct is telling you to stay silent. This is one of those experiences that I also blacked out for a very long time and never thought I would talk about. I've been investigating one of fashion's darkest secrets.

And it all begins with a phone call. It's January 2021 when, like much of the world, London's in lockdown. Outside, it's pitch black and I'm alone in my apartment scrolling through social media. After the Me Too movement left Hollywood reeling, women in the fashion world have been sharing their experiences. But I spot something. Young men also sharing stories. We've seen it happen with me too. How about us two? Says one post. I see a cryptic comment.

It's from a former male model. Curious. I sent him a message. He replies with his number. Maybe it's because of the surreal times we're living through. We're both stuck indoors, bored,

a bit lonely, perhaps. That we keep talking and talking. He's hesitant, but says he feels he can trust me with a secret he's never told anyone before. It's probably, like, the darkest experience I've ever dealt with. They flew me from LA to New York. They had someone come and, like, shave me, like, my whole body, because that's how they liked the boys. At the centre of it all, he says, is a wealthy, powerful man. He's probably sitting in one of his fancy homes, feeling all untouchable.

The mastermind behind a fashion super brand. He's worked with Abercrombie & Fitch, a multi-billion dollar corporation. The man who built Abercrombie & Fitch into a brand that burst with sex appeal, the must-have label for teenagers around the world. And I realise I'm dropping a very big bombshell on you at the moment. So my jaw is sort of just... Dropped.

Yeah, just to put it bluntly. What I didn't know then was this call would be the start of the most intense investigation I've ever worked on, which over two and a half years would take me into a world of money, sex and power to reveal that behind the all-American fantasy at the height of Abercrombie and Fitch's success was something darker. A story about to be brought to light by people who have never spoken before. This was me being carefully manipulated by a group of older men who knew exactly what

they were doing because they had done it before. Being lied to, tricked, and traded like a commodity. I don't think it was wrong. I just think they shouldn't have been hiding it. NDAs are the work of the powerful to control the vulnerable. There's nobody that walked into that without their eyes wide open. Nobody. I think it's rarely considered that men could be a victim of anything. They face a double stigma.

I don't think that men have had their Me Too moment yet. I know not everyone is ready, and some people will never be ready. But predators prey on silence, and it's how it keeps going. From the BBC, this is World of Secrets. Season one, the Abercrombie guys, with me, Rhianna Croxford. A BBC Radio 5 Live and BBC Panorama investigation. Episode one, Silenced.

If, like me, you went to school in the noughties, the age of Myspace, MSN and BlackBerrys, then you know that Abercrombie & Fitch was the epitome of high school chic. I shop a little bit at Abercrombie & Fitch. I mostly shop at an Abercrombie. Abercrombie. This was a time when glam teen dramas like Gossip Girl and The Hills dominated our screens. And wearing an Abercrombie hoodie could keep the mean girls at bay. Whatever. Those girls aren't real. They can't sit with us! Back then, it was

the biggest brag of all to say you'd been scouted to work at Abercrombie & Fitch. It was the holy grail of weekend jobs. It meant you were verified. Hot. And shopping there was an experience itself. I remember queuing up with my best friend outside Abercrombie's London flagship store to slap a Polaroid with one of their shirtless models. You know, the guys who stood there looking like Greek gods who'd say, hey, what's up, as you walked through the door. hey, what's up? As you walked through the door. So the idea that there might be a darker side to a brand that millennials around the world idolised

is something I've got to get to the bottom of. The more I talk to my source on the phone, the more I feel there's something bigger here that needs investigating. And after months of texting, he's finally ready to meet in person. So in March 2022, producer Ruth and I jump on a plane to Southern California. It's sweltering hot when we land. As we leave the airport, we wind through streets lined with palm trees passing glass

fronted houses that could be straight out of selling sunset on the drive to meet the former male model. How are you feeling? I'm feeling a bit nervous. Here I am having been speaking to this person who I met online for nearly a year, and we're just about to meet in real life. Turn right, then turn left. We turn into an apartment complex with balconies bursting with plants and pull up next to a communal garden. Hey!

This is Barrett Paul. These days he works as a life coach and still looks like he could have stepped off a billboard. He's tanned, with sun-streaked hair and perfect teeth. He's also full of energy. He tells me his friends call him a golden retriever. OK, this is my apartment. Shoes off, please.

Once you're in, you are welcome to get as cosy and comfortable as you want. Thank you. I'm seeing lots of cacti. Yes, everyone has a name. This is Cricket, an African milk cactus. Then we have an elephant ear, and this is Lady Diana, after Princess Diana. We're just fans of her in this house. We sit down in Barrett's apartment, surrounded by his plants and thrifted

furniture. I recognise the room from his videos. He's got a huge following on TikTok and Instagram. He's a campaigner and activist these days, often sharing stories from his life. But we've come to talk about the one thing he's never spoken about before. He starts by telling me about his childhood growing up on Long Island in New York. Growing up, life was not easy. I was the gay kid at school before I knew I was the gay kid at school. I am grateful that my mom and dad very much let me be me. But I was the kid that showed up to school with Barbies, feather pens, bell-bottoms, tie-dye, a wrap in my hair.

Like, little boys didn't do that back when I was growing up. Barrett says his parents did their best with what they had, but his mum had health issues and his family often struggled. We were evicted from four different homes and life overall was tough. When you've grown up poor and your mum is super sick, that you have a little brother and a little sister, you want to do everything in your power to get out of that situation and do better and be able to help all of them. So when Barrett was in high school, getting a weekend job at Abercrombie & Fitch Kids

was a massive deal, and not just because of the extra money he was bringing in. You know, I worked at that store at 17 for the first time, and that was an honour. I wanted to be that all-American, attractive, in-shape hunk. I thought that's where the weird queer Jewish kid would finally assimilate. I wanted to, like, just be cool for once in my life. Barrett was one of the chosen ones, sporting jeans and flip-flops, working at his local Abercrombie store.

Cool and sexy. That was very much the ethos of the brand. Everything was like Laguna Beach and the OC. I don't know if it made it to the UK, but I remember all the girls in my high school walking around in leggings, jean skirts that were from Abercrombie with the little moose, lacy tank, a polo over it, a t-shirt over that, and then UGG boots. Yep, having flashbacks. Yeah, made it over to the UK.

Yeah. What was the culture like? There was a lot of rules in terms of like, what you looked like. Every girl had to have super fresh, clean makeup, like minimal, and guys, I don't think were allowed to have any piercings. Clean shaven, no facial hair, you know,

walk around and spray the store with Fierce, the signature cologne, and every store had the exact same CD, and it was like European like club music and I remember that being a complaint all the time from parents being like it's so loud in here and you're like yeah it's a vibe but we didn't like it either after high school Barrett's accepted into NYU dream college, to do a Bachelor's of Science. All the while, his friends keep telling him the same thing, that he should try modelling. A friend takes some headshots and pretty soon he gets his first break.

Barrett jumps up to grab a memory box from the time and starts rummaging through it, bringing out old party invites and photos. This is my modeling portfolio. This was a big billboard on Sunset Boulevard. I had saved so many random things. These are some of the cool things I was invited to as my modeling career started. I mean, like, this is a, like, Calvin Klein underwear party launch invitation. This is my bracelet into underwear party launch invitation. This is my bracelet into the Victoria's Secret fashion show that I got to go to.

Again, you're young. You think this is so cool. After graduating in 2010, Barrett heads to LA, dreaming of taking his modeling career to the next level and maybe even making it in Hollywood. He gets some breaks, he appears in a Nicki Minaj music video and then lands a gig working on Britney Spears' Femme Fatale Tour. He features in a film played on the big screen

being spun around half naked on a turntable. Everything seems to be on the up for Barrett. He's booking jobs, making new friends, and on one photo shoot crosses paths with another male model, who's a few years older. He says they had a lot in common. He was really friendly, really nice. There was kind of like a shared experience in some different ways.

I looked at him as a friend and in some ways, eventually kind of like an older brother. This guy, the older model, helps Barrett navigate life in LA because modelling's tough. While Barrett's getting plenty of bookings, it doesn't always mean he's getting paid. You work for free for a very long time and build your portfolio, build your reputation. And while you're doing that, you're being used and

abused in all different ways because they want to see how far they can push you. Barrett tells me it's not unusual to do shoots alone in a photographer's home. And that can lead to situations where you're left vulnerable. My very first photo shoot, I was sexually assaulted. That was the first same-sex experience I ever had. That was robbed. And that was the beginning of being, I think, really desensitised to a lot of things that I should have never been desensitised to.

At 22 years old, feeling abused and exploited and struggling for money, Barrett's back home in New York, where he's sofa surfing and thinking about quitting modelling. But he says his friend, the older model, persuades him to move back to LA and give it another go, and suggest something that might help. I very much started to position this idea of having, like, a sugar daddy as a normal LA thing. You know, sleeping with men for money is a normal thing. And it was something I had never, ever considered.

But after everything I had been through in the industry, it wasn't, like, shocking to hear this was a thing, and eventually it did a really great job convincing me that it wasn't a big deal. Barrett says his friend keeps bringing it up, every day wearing him down. He says on a handful of occasions, his friend arranges for him to have sex for money and tells me it usually involved other young models with one older man paying. I rationalised it with myself that I thought those guys were hot, that I wouldn't mind being naked with those guys. Barrett wasn't out at this point and says older gay men were constantly telling him

to stay in the closet or else he'd never make it. Then he says the older model has a new proposition. It's a job he can't do anymore and Barrett would be the perfect replacement for him. He tells me his friend alludes that it could be good for his career. A chance to meet with men Barrett calls the Abercrombie guys. The Abercrombie guys are Mike Jeffries. And at the time, his British gay partner. And the more that I went into this experience with the Abercrombie and Fitch people,

the more dehumanising, degrading. dehumanizing, degrading. And just, like, really messed up it all was. Mike Jeffries, the former CEO and modern-day founder of Abercrombie & Fitch, who between 1992 and 2014 transformed the company into a multi-billion dollar super brand. In 2011, when Barrett's living in LA, Mike Jeffries was one of America's highest paid executives. Around this time, we understand Mike Jeffries is in his late 60s and has a wife and son. He's also in a relationship with a younger British man called Matthew Smith. And having worked in Abercrombie stores, Barrett already knew a bit about Mike Jeffries. Mike Jeffries is a person with extreme power,

especially back then when Abercrombie is at their height. When I worked at the flagship store, I remember them talking about him coming, and it's like a buzz. Barrett says his friend tells him the job will involve meeting the Abercrombie guys for some sort of sexual experience. But it's a totally easy situation. Everyone's really nice. You don't have to do anything you don't want to do. But again, the more you do, the better. This works out for both of us because I'll make some money, you'll make some money. Meaning not only will Barrett get paid, but the older model says he'll get a finder's fee for referring him to the Abercrombie guys.

What were you told would be the benefits of doing this? I mean, the benefits to doing this were financial. They were, you know, the possibility to help your career. And I mean, you know, someone who's grown up without money, who's poor, who's struggling, who's looking to help their family. And that money starts to look really alluring. Barrett says he also had student loans to pay off and medical bills from a gym injury. I really remember having a moment in my room, waking up one day, looking at the ceiling and being like,

no one's going to save you, Barrett. You have to save yourself. And I say this with still shame and embarrassment. But you do things you never thought you would do when you have to survive. He comes back to this a lot in our conversation and seems constantly worried about what people will think when they hear what happens next. I then find out that there's like an audition step, for lack of better terms.

Before he's introduced to Mike Jeffries and his British partner, Matthew Smith, Barrett's told by the older model he has to meet with a man called Jim. I would meet Jim, have some sort of sexual experience with Jim, and Jim would be the yes or no to moving on to the Abercrombie guys. Barrett says he feels his friend rushes him to make a decision. I helped you so many times so now you can help me out, right? So I felt like I owed him something.

So Barrett tries to rationalise it and says he tells himself to be open-minded. After all, he needs the money, and it's a chance to get in front of people who run a giant fashion brand. I thought that this would open so many doors. Quite frankly, that's what it was in my brain. So, what's he going to do? We'll be back after this. How many people who have been on the FBI's most wanted list have ever sat down for a podcast with the BBC? For over a decade, a pair of mugshots have lived

side by side on the FBI's website. These individuals are considered as terrorists. In 2005, they were called the number one domestic terror threat in America. Estimates are a quarter billion dollars in damages. The cause of their alleged terrorist actions? The environment. Our purpose was direct action to disrupt environmental destruction. How far is too far to go to stop the planet burning? If it's not me, then it's who? And if it's not now, then it's when? Burn wild. Find us now on BBC Sounds. For just as long as Hollywood has been Tinseltown, there have been suspicions about what lurks behind the glitz and glamour. Concerns about radical propaganda in the motion pictures.

And for a while, those suspicions grew into something much bigger and much darker. Are you a member of the Communist Party? Or have you ever been a member of the Communist Party? I'm Una Chaplin, and this is Hollywood Exiles. It's about a battle for the political soul of America, and the battlefield was Hollywood. All episodes of Hollywood Exiles, from the BBC World Service and CBC, are available now. Search for Hollywood Exiles wherever you get your podcasts.

At 9641 Sunset Boulevard, you'll find the luxurious Beverly Hills Hotel, a home from home for Hollywood's elite, where even a basic room costs well over $1,000 a night. Discretion is everything here. Valets are on hand to assist with every whim and to ward off any prying paparazzi. And it's here where Barrett's come to meet the man called Jim. Jim was an older man, white, out of shape, overweight, and like one of the craziest things about all of it that you will never forget is he like was missing his nose and it's such a weird thing to like throw out there and it sounds like come on this can't be real he had what was like a snakeskin bandage that was made specifically for him to like cover up that piece of his face. Barrett says he's been told by the older model that this meeting with Jim is the test run

and told a little about what to expect, but not a lot. I didn't feel safe. I walked in there because I was supposed to at that point. Arrangements had been made. There was money on the other side of that experience, not just for me but for someone else who I looked at like a big brother, who I still thought had my best interest in mind.

Barrett says he felt he owed it to the older model because he'd supported him financially. So when Jim invites Barrett up to his room, he goes. We talked a little. I had a drink. And then it was like him in his underwear. And then it was kind of just like, please me. Like super degrading. Again, just like please me like super degrading again just like

really really embarrassing this whole thing is something I never thought I would speak about to anyone let alone like publicly um I know the judgment that's going to come I remember performing oral sex on him and, you know, quickly back in your clothes, given an envelope with money, told, I think the guys will like you. They like, you know, guys more masculine, butch it up. Like talk about a mind fuck. I got, you know, $500 from Jim in that experience. And that was that. Barrett leaves the Beverly Hills Hotel and a short while later, he gets a message.

It's from Jim. He's passed the audition. Barrett says Jim then makes arrangements for the rendezvous with the Abercrombie guys, emailing him flight details and a hotel booking. Two weeks later, Barrett's friend drives him to the airport for a flight from LA to his hometown, New York, where he's put up in a hotel near Times Square. And everything just moved really quickly from there.

Brought into a room with two younger guys that were dressed in Abercrombie & Fitch blue polo jeans, flip-flops, and I was told that I was going to be physically groomed, but like completely naked, and then with my legs put over my head so that, you know, all parts of me could be shaved. How did you feel in that moment? You're naked, completely dehumanized, as if you are an animal.

Like I just felt like a caged animal in that room. It's a bunch of people in what felt like this fast-moving circus. Barrett tells me he starts to disassociate and feels completely disconnected from his body. He says at that point, a man in a suit comes over. They came in to collect my ID, to make a photocopy of it, and being given that NDA to sign and look at for like two seconds as soon as I'm done being shaved. I've come across NDAs in a lot of stories I've worked on.

Non-disclosure agreements are a type of legal contract designed to stop people from sharing confidential information. It's something you'd typically sign with the advice of a lawyer, not when you're naked in a hotel room. I'm now starting to understand why Barrett has stayed silent about this for so long. What did they tell you the agreement was? You can't talk about this with anyone that they would have the right to sue me for a lot of money.

Money that I will probably never have or see in my life. Enough to scare you into being quiet for 11 years. How much of a choice do you feel that you had in signing that agreement? There was no choice. I was in that room with a group of people who were there to facilitate this movie as quickly as possible, a well-oiled machine that they had carefully crafted. The next morning, another man appears at the hotel. This guy is

also dressed head to toe in Abercrombie and Fitch. Barrett says he's told to follow him, and together they get into a black Land Rover. He's with two other men in their 20s. One of them tells Barrett he's a porn star. They're all going to the same event. But he's starting to feel overwhelmed. Not just like emotionally and mentally, but like physically nauseous. And I mean, like even right now, it goes right back to that feeling. Like it's my body telling me like, don't do this. Don't do this.

They drive east out of the city towards the Hamptons, where New York's super-rich spend their summers. Barrett says he's so nervous that when they stop at a gas station on the way, he throws up. The car finally pulls into the driveway of Mike Jeffries' imposing mansion, hidden behind towering hedges.

It's surrounded by neatly manicured gardens, and Barrett says it's eerily quiet. More young men dressed in Abercrombie appear, and they ask Barrett to wait in a guest house in the grounds while the other men go first. Barrett says he's sick again and is told to brush his teeth. And then it's time. I was escorted from the guest house to the main house.

It's bizarre. We've all been given underwear, like fresh underwear. Abercrombie underwear, of course. I was the new special treat, is kind of how they positioned it. There was the logistics guy who had planned everything standing kind of at the ready with anything you might want. Condoms, lube, poppers. And then once those double doors

into their master bedroom opened, I remember seeing Mike Jeffries in the bed with the porn star. And then kind of like beckoning us over, like come join the party. I wasn't physically pushed in, but it felt like I was being pushed in, if that makes sense. I was escorted to the front doors of the bedroom. When I entered that room, the door was closed behind me. This sounds like it could have been one of the bedroom. When I entered that room, the door was closed behind me. This sounds like it could have been one of the guys in Abercrombie uniform. Barrett says he's super conscious of them

standing on the sidelines and describes them as chaperones. The impact of there being chaperones in that room felt like there was even more pressure to perform to go make sure they had a good time. I remember thinking, like, I don't want to do anything with any of these people. But if I have to pick someone to do something with, like, I can maybe put on a show with one of the other men who were brought in for the sexual experience. And so he performed oral sex on me. Mike Jeffries and Matthew Smith watched and then

encouraged us to come over to the bed next to Mike Jeffries and kiss him. Then Barrett says the other two men have sex with Mike Jeffries and his British partner Matthew Smith. At one point he says Mike Jeffries was behind him groping him. And then literally before I know it, it's done. Back to the guest house, upstairs, everyone given their envelopes. What was in the envelope? Money, cash. How much? I'm almost positive it was $2,500.

I'm almost positive it was $2,500. Barrett says he's taken to a waiting car that's heading back to Manhattan, but he asks the driver to drop him off at his parents' house on the way. Having to look at my family in the eye and them have no idea what I've just done, and going downstairs to my bedroom to cry and to look at this white envelope full of money. This experience doesn't just drain your soul, it takes a part of it and you don't get that back. Barrett says this is the first time he's spoken like this about his experience with the Abercrombie guys. He's visibly upset, crying.

I'm asking him questions no-one ever has before, and it's hard seeing the emotion it stirs up in him. But I want to understand why he went through with this. Why didn't he follow his instincts? Why didn't he just get away. The second that I got on that plane from LA to New York, I lost control. How was I going to leave? I didn't have a car.

I was in the middle of the Hamptons. I had a chaperone sitting and like watching me. Some people might argue that this was just sex work, that you were paid, that you understood something of a sexual nature would happen. What's the issue here? The issue here is that this was not just sex work. This was a carefully crafted, specific situation.

Sex work comes with, I think, informed consent. It comes with some form of understanding exactly what's going to happen. Once the sexual activity started, did you feel at any stage you could have just said no? In what setting would no have changed what was going on in there? Did I want to kiss Mike Jeffries? No. Did I? Yes. Did I want to go and kiss his partner? No. Did I? Yes.

Did I want to have some stranger suck my dick in this room full of insanity? No. Did I? Yes. So yeah, I didn't say no. I fucking didn't say yes either. You know? I know it's been tough. You know, I can see it in you. So thank you for being open with us thank you this has been

cathartic healing a little bit traumatizing but like in an important way I'm sitting on the sofa in Barrett's apartment trying to get my head around what I've been told I don't know how the other men involved felt about this experience, or what their arrangements were. But ten years on, Barrett's still deeply upset about what he says happened in the Hamptons. I'm really struck by how organised this sounds, but I need some way of corroborating what he's telling me. I get my hopes up when Barrett says he has an old iPad from the time, that could hold evidence to back up what he's telling me. I get my hopes up when Barrett says he has an old iPad from the time that could hold evidence to back up what he's told me.

He begins rifling through drawers and searching under his bed until he finds it. So this is what I would have used for everything then. And I haven't looked at it in a really long time and I'm not even sure if it works.

Oh my gosh, I see light. So we have the apple and just the apple. I've got light in my fingers and toes crossed. But this thing hasn't been turned on in I don't know how long. It doesn't turn on. We're both gutted. But Barrett says he has an old journal he's been writing in since high school he points to an entry he wrote a few years after his visit to mike jeffrey's

mansion here we go oh gosh okay do you want to explain this page to me so you've got it says here darkest time I just can't believe how sad I was and how easily manipulated I was fuck you Abercrombie and Fitch fuck you Abercrombie gym this is part of my life and had to be set free from my insides how hard was that reading it back that's hard I hadn't read all of this as I say the darkest point in my life, which is still how I look at all of it. It's been a heavy day, so Barrett suggests we all head to the beach to wind down. We've got low tide right now too, so you can really see a good stretch of the beach. Surfers are out, golden hour, and it's hard to be sad as you come down the stairs, smell the ocean, feel the sea breeze.

What went through your mind when I messaged you at the start of last year randomly on Instagram? What was it that changed for you when you decided to open up about this? I think this is one of those things where you hold on to these secrets that you have such shame around. Going back with the language I now have 11 years later, it's as bright as day that this was not my choice. This was me being carefully manipulated by a group of older men who knew exactly what they were doing

because they had done it before. Barrett leads us up to the clifftop and we sit in silence watching the waves break below. I can't stop thinking about what I've just heard. Could it be that Barrett's experience was just a one-off? Or are there other young men out there with a story to tell about the Abercrombie guys? After that first call with Barrett, I spent hours reading about Mike Jeffries,

scouring social media, and found nothing. I need to find out what's really going on, and more about the man who appears to be at the centre of it all. The man who was once behind a fashion empire, the modern-day founder of Abercrombie & Fitch, Mike Jeffries. My job was to pay attention to every single thing that Mike wanted and needed. I would probably scratch my head a little bit more and wonder why models were the people washing the car. That's next time on the Abercrombie Guys. Thanks for listening to the World of Secrets podcast, an investigation from BBC Radio 5 Live and Panorama. If you've enjoyed this first episode, then please tell a friend, spread the word and even better, write a review.

And let us know what you think of the series using the hashtag World of Secrets. You can write to me and the team at Rianna, that's R-I-A-N-N-A at bbc.com. The Abercrombie Guys is presented and investigated by me, Rianna Croxford. The podcast producers are Ruth Evans, Ailis Hart and Emma Close.

The BBC News investigation editor is Ed Campbell and the podcast editor is Richard Fenton-Smith. Sound design and mix by Neil Churchill and Gareth Jones. Production support by Debbie Richford, Sophie Hill, Jackie Johnson and Kirsten Oliver. And technical support by Jonathan Glover and Jack Willis. The World of Secrets theme music is by Jeremy Wormsley. This podcast is made in collaboration with BBC Panorama.

The editor is Karen Whiteman, executive producer is Tom Stone and the producer is Kate Brown. The Abercrombie Guys is a BBC News long-form audio production for BBC Sounds. The head of long-form audio is Emma Rippin, and the deputy head of BBC Current Affairs is Jim Gray. The commissioning editor at BBC Sounds is Dylan Haskins, and commissioning executive is Louise Catton-Horne. The assistant commissioner is Natasha Johansson. With thanks to Hannah Livingston,

Joe Kent, Adam Walker and Paul Myers. And thank you to everyone who spoke to us for this investigation. We can't tell stories like this without you. Thank you for listening. The attacker had very good knowledge of banking systems. $2.1 billion in stolen funds. The cyber criminal group. It was the Lazarus Group again. These are smart guys. The Lazarus Heist is back for a brand new season. We're following the latest twists and turns in the incredible story of the Lazarus Group hackers. The Lazarus Heist, season two from the BBC World Service.

Listen first on BBC Sounds. For just as long as Hollywood has been Tinseltown, there have been suspicions about what lurks behind the glitz and glamour. Concerns about radical propaganda in the motion pictures. And for a while, those suspicions grew into something much bigger and much darker. Are you a member of the Communist Party? Or have you ever been a member of the Communist Party? I'm Una Chaplin, and this is Hollywood Exiles. It's about a battle for the political soul of America,

and the battlefield was Hollywood. All episodes of Hollywood Exiles, from the BBC World Service and CBC, are available now. Search for Hollywood Exiles wherever you get your podcasts.