World Of Secrets - The Abercrombie Guys: 10. Final Fantasy

Episode Date: September 13, 2024

"I thought I was gonna die." A man fears for his life after attending an Abercrombie Guys event. Mike Jeffries time as Abercrombie and Fitch CEO comes to an abrupt end, marking the end of an era. Meanwhile, in 2024 the allegations against him and Matthew Smith continue to mount. "The courtroom is where we will deal with this matter," say their lawyers. #worldofsecrets

This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK. Hi, it's Rhianna Croxford. Here's the second of the brand new episodes of our first season of World of Secrets, The Abercrombie Guys. Just a reminder, if you haven't already, do listen back from episode one. And before we start, I want to let you know that this episode contains strong language, references to drug use and accounts of sexual violence. What went through your mind when you saw the headlines? You know, like on an airplane, when the plane drops and your stomach turns? That's how it felt.

My stomach turned. It was like a big, big drop. Heart skipped a beat. It was just, it instantly brought up those very uncomfortable emotions for me when I saw this. One rainy day in the autumn of 2023, I'm sitting at my desk in the BBC newsroom in London when an email pings in my inbox. We've just broken the story

that Mike Jeffries and Matthew Smith are facing allegations of sex trafficking. The news had reached a businessman 5,000 miles away in California. He tells me he was scrolling online, checking the latest stock market updates, when he stumbled across it. I was sipping my morning coffee and I saw an article from BBC that there was a massive lawsuit against Michael Jeffries. And I was shocked because it's something that I had kind of put aside in my life and never revisited it. It happened, move on, be a man. I was so young. I was 20. So I hadn't thought about it since. I'm 33 now.

and hadn't thought about it since. I'm 33 now. This man, who I'm calling Luke, is an investor who today runs his own business. He's cautious, so has asked for his name to be changed. I didn't think it would ever come to light. I thought this was a very powerful individual who was basically untouchable. And especially in the sense that people like that could just get away with things. When I first began investigating the Abercrombie guys, Mike Jeffries, the modern day founder of Abercrombie & Fitch and his British partner, Matthew Smith, I always felt that whatever I found out would only be the start of unravelling what went on.

I didn't know how many men were involved or could have been affected, and the truth is, I still don't. Could it be dozens? Hundreds, even? The scale of this operation, and how it stayed hidden for so long, is something I'm still trying to comprehend. I think that experience weighed really heavy on my soul for a while. It made me question myself that I didn't have the strength and courage to say no or that I could put myself in a situation like that. And so I carried this shame and guilt about that for years.

And so I carried this shame and guilt about that for years. Luke is one of 20 men I've now spoken with who attended or helped organise events hosted by the Abercrombie guys. From them, I've heard a range of allegations about Mike Jeffries and Matthew Smith. I've heard from men who say they knew some of what they were getting into and those who say they didn't. But I haven't yet heard anything like this. This whole hotel room was completely converted to being a literal Abercrombie store. The photos and the tables, the plants, the cologne scents.

It was like a movie set of an Abercrombie store. And I thought we were going to do a photo shoot. And right away it's like we go into character. You know, the house manager says, all right, guys, the first thing I want you to do is take off your shirts. So you guys would be the guys at the Abercrombie store being the shirtless models.

All right, now I have two very important guests I'm going to bring into the store, and these are going to be the customers that you need to impress and entertain because they're going to be buying a lot of clothes from you. That's when Michael Jeffries and Mr. Smith came out of a corner of the room. From the BBC, this is World of Secrets. I'm Rhianna Croxford, back with Season 1 of The Abercrombie Guys,

a BBC Radio 5 Live and BBC Panorama investigation. Episode 10, Final Fantasy. More than a decade ago, back in 2011, Luke says he was feeling lost. On the surface, he had nothing to complain about. He comes from a loving and supportive family, and he's doing well in life. He even won a soccer scholarship to college. My parents are my heroes. Good family. Unfortunately for me, it was almost a little too boring. And so I was always a rebel. I didn't do well in school. I didn't like the structure and the coursework and whatnot.

So I would always act out or try to skip class. I just needed a break from, you know, intensive academic pressure. So at the age of 20, he gives it all up and moves to LA to pursue a new dream. And modeling seemed like it was creative and relatively easy if you had the right look to support yourself. Or at least that's what I thought.

But modeling isn't as easy as he hoped. And it quickly dawns on Luke that there are thousands of other guys like him all trying to make it. Booking jobs is tough. Because at the time I was dealing with these feelings of shame and guilt from dropping out of school and then also low self-esteem because for a model I was a little bit too short.

I wasn't, you know, 6'2", you know, with a very chiseled physique. You know, I was tall enough, but not like some of the other competitions. His self-esteem hits an all-time low, and he finds escape in LA's party scene, where he finds a new way to cope. I really slipped into a dark world of drug addiction, you know, whether it was ecstasy, MDMA, or cocaine. I really fell into that, you know, to stay skinny, to have more energy, to be more social, and being more empathetic or communicative to kind of, you know, make my name get out there. But I was destroying myself mentally and emotionally on the inside

with these drugs. But he keeps pushing on, trying to get his name and face out there, plugging himself on websites, hoping for his first big break. There was a site that existed at the time called Model Mayhem, where somebody who's inexperienced could just set up a profile. That was where my start was, and I did get offers. Model mayhem was groundbreaking back then. A sort of MySpace for aspiring models,

where people could create profiles and connect directly with industry people. One day, Luke says he receives a DM from a young man who tells him he works as a house manager for the family office of Mike Jeffries, the CEO of Abercrombie & Fitch, one of the hottest names in fashion at the time. This individual said that, you know, he was a former model with Michael Jeffries and Michael liked him so much that he hired him to be in this position of talent scout and executive assistant. Luke says he can't believe his luck. Finally, his career could be on the verge of something big.

Hey, we have this opportunity to potentially be in one of our ads. But first, you know, it's important to go and meet Michael in person. And this would require you to go and fly to Madrid, Spain. What did this person tell you to expect? This person did tell me to expect to be shirtless for shoots and to be open and be okay with being touched or whatnot. I can't think of the right wording. But I mean, it didn't seem like anything too out of the ordinary for me

because even working at an Abercrombie store when I was younger, there was guys who would stand outside the store shirtless. That was like a trademark thing of Abercrombie at the time. Did I tell you guys I worked for Abercrombie? No, you didn't. So yeah, I can't believe, I mean, I can believe, I suppose, but you worked at Abercrombie then in your hometown. Yeah. It's been a curious coincidence that's emerged while making this podcast, that so many of the men I've spoken to, like Barrett, Alex, Keith, and now Luke, all worked for Abercrombie & Fitch, or its spin-off Hollister, back when they were teenagers. Of course, they all

share a similar look too. The muscled, square-jawed hunk that turned the brand into a global phenomenon. Mike Jeffries' very own all-American fantasy. I literally worked for the company. The smell of the cologne, the fierce cologne, is what specifically is like burned in my memory. And it was quite boring. I was holding clothes. It was, you know know just an average retail job i was offered the job of being one of the guys standing outside the store with my shirt off but at the time i was a little too insecure about my body so i turned it down respectfully i think i would have been like 17 or 18 or something wasn't too many years after that this happened. But here's where Luke's story starts to differ from what I've heard before. So far, all the men I've spoken to who attended events hosted by the

Abercrombie guys have told me they first had to meet the middleman, Jim Jacobson. He was a gatekeeper. Some have said they felt Jim Jacobson misled them about the nature of these events, or that they weren't told sex would be involved. Others, like Keith Milkey, the model-turned-singer, say Jim made it clear it could be part of the deal. But Luke says there were no obvious red flags from the man who messaged him on Model Mayhem. Was sex ever mentioned? No.

Definitely not. And it's something that I would not have been OK with. The next steps were a Skype interview, you know, just asking me questions about myself. And looking back on it, I'm sure they just saw how naive and simple I was. Luke says he's never listened to this podcast or watched our documentary. He's only seen some news articles.

He also doesn't recall meeting anyone named Jim. Instead, he says his initial contact was this guy who messaged him on a modelling site, saying he worked as a house manager for Mike Jeffries. Luke remembers him being in his early 30s, with dirty blonde hair. When they first got chatting on Skype, Luke says he starts by asking him about his modelling experience. Specifically, one question that I thought was odd is, have I ever modelled nude before?

Is that something I'm comfortable with? How did that make you feel? At the time, I wanted to be okay with it because I thought, oh, okay, this is just how it goes. So that's, it's not something I put too much heavy thought into at the time. Just asking me, do I have posing experience? Do I have experience working with executive teams? Questions that I thought I was answering and I was like, okay, I'm not going to get picked for this because I have no experience and I've never done anything like this before. Luke says he logs off the call thinking he's blown his chances. There's no way he's going to land this job. So he says he's

surprised when he receives an email shortly after saying he's been picked and needs to get ready to head to Spain. He says it's his first break with a major fashion brand. At the time I was definitely excited for a new experience and that this could be the start of something great for my career. When Luke lands in Madrid he says he's greeted by the house manager he'd spoken to on Skype, but says he's vague about the plan. Which was a bit strange to me that I came all the way to a foreign country and there was no details, no anything about what was going to happen. Luke, says a house manager, takes him to his hotel room, sharing strikingly similar details to what we've heard before. room, sharing strikingly similar details to what we've heard before. Every hair on my body shaved off. So they shaved my face, chest, legs, and even, you know, the genital area. It's just, it was just very uncomfortable.

Luke says he signed a contract, which he recalls was a non-disclosure agreement. Like the other men I've spoken with, he says he wasn't given a copy. He also tells me he wasn't exactly a neatly filed paperwork kind of guy at the time. He doesn't have his passport from back then and can't get into his old email account either, so he can't definitively give me specific dates and locations. The night before he's due to meet Mike Jeffries, Luke says the house manager drops by to pay him up front 3,500 euros in cash and tells him it's for his time.

I thought that this was just travel compensation money or just, you know, general spending money for my time there because I was supposed to be there for three days. Then the next day, he says the house manager walks him over to a much more grand hotel where they meet up with two other models. One's a really jacked bodybuilder who Luke thinks is in his 40s. And the other he recalls tells him he was a gymnast, probably in his 30s. Luke's just 20 years old at the time, and is still pretty green in the modeling world, and says he's starting to feel a bit out of place. Once inside the hotel, he says a group is taken to see Mike Jeffries by two security type guys

who are also dressed in full Abercrombie clothes. And they led us up to the top floor of the hotel. It was like a presidential suite. And I was kind of shocked to see as soon as we got in that this whole hotel room was completely converted to being a literal Abercrombie store. I mean, the first thing to hit you is the wave of, you know, fierce cologne scent, like just totally just blasted in your face. You know, the walls were literally painted like the

dark color of an Abercrombie store. The lights are dimmed. There is the large photos of male eroticism, like just a guy's abs or two guys like with their arms around each other, the same potted plants, the same tables with clothes, like Abercrombie clothes laid out on the tables. It was shocking the level of detail that was put into this. It was like a movie set of an Abercrombie store. So they'd turned this entire suite into almost an Abercrombie store? It wasn't just almost, it was this hotel. It was an Abercrombie store. It wasn't just almost, it was this hotel. It was an Abercrombie store. Luke says there are four men in Abercrombie and Fitch uniforms in the room. He describes them

as security. But from what he tells me, they sound like the so-called housemen we've heard about before. Mike Jeffries and Matthew Smiths, closest personal assistants, who travel with them all over the world. Luke says he thinks they're very imposing figures. And I'm by far, I'm the shortest and I'm the youngest guy there by like 12 years, I would say. So I felt very uncomfortable. So I felt very uncomfortable. He says two of the housemen are just innocuously folding clothes in this mock A&F store, pretending to be shop workers and having a conversation as if they're actors on a set.

Other men have told me that the Abercrombie guys could rent out multiple hotel rooms for events, entire floors. But I've never heard about anything as stage-managed as this. And maybe there was a reason for it. I know from leaked travel schedules that Mike Jeffries was in Madrid several times in 2011, preparing to open a real Abercrombie store in the city. But what Luke tells me doesn't sound like a regular staff training session. And right away, it's like we go into character. You know, the talent scout or house manager says, all right, guys, the first thing I want you to do is take off your shirts

so you can, you know, be the guys at the Abercrombie store being the shirtless models. It's like, OK, sure. And then he's like all right now i have two very important guests i'm going to bring into the store and these are going to be the customers that you need to impress and entertain because they're going to be buying a lot of clothes from you and uh that's when michael jeffries and mr smith came out of a corner of the room led by the house manager. Luke tells me the Abercrombie guys seem intoxicated and immediately start touching him. He recalls Mike Jeffries saying,

Oh boy, like, I think I might be gay. I think I might be gay. I'm definitely gay. What's going through your mind? Well, one, I was, you know, I was, I still am a straight male. So to start being touched and then I remember him taking off my pants like completely and my underwear. It was just, it was just, it just felt so wrong. Luke says he tries to de-escalate the situation right away as one of the Abercrombie guys moves to kiss him.

He tells me he tries to blend into the background of the bizarre fake Abercrombie guys moves to kiss him. He tells me he tries to blend into the background of the bizarre fake Abercrombie store. But it's not long, he says, before Mike Jeffries and Matthew Smith start having sex with the other men, the bodybuilder and gymnast. And I'm just, at that point, I'm like, I need to get out of here. Luke says some of the housemen offer him a tray of poppers, a muscle relaxant sometimes used during sex, encouraging him to take a sniff. But he says he declines.

And eventually, Michael Jeffries, like, comes over to me, and he's like, whoa, what, you're not going to get in on this fun? Like, you know, I just, I try to smile and be, in the back of my head. I'm thinking like, is this what it takes to like get a job or get a role or something? I'm like, this is not what I was, I thought this was going to be. And I did, I let him perform oral sex on me. And I, I tried to do some sort of oral on him.

And I just, I just literally couldn't, I'm like, hey, you know what? I can't do this. Had you wanted any of that to happen? No. I mean, definitely not. Absolutely not. I was trying to avoid the whole situation as much as I could. But Michael was very aggressive.

And how much of a choice do you feel like you had at the moment? Zero. There is no choice. I could have just ran. could have i could have just ran i i guess i could have just ran out of that room but i didn't even know how i would have gotten out there's the the guys they're just literally watching exits just kind of standing by in the far corners of the room i tried tried to say that like, hey, you know, like, like, I'm good. I'm not I'm not comfortable with this. Like, I don't I don't really, you know,

want to do this. I mean, that's why they didn't have anal sex with me. But they definitely were like, Oh, come on, you got to at least do something. You got to do something. You got to do something. But I said, I constantly was saying no, and I wanted to go. Luke says he felt thrown into the situation without any warning. Like basically, I thought I was like, okay, I'm getting fired because I didn't do what this guy wanted. I was okay with that. No problem. He says as the event ends, Mike Jeffries is busy inviting the other two men to have dinner with him and Matthew Smith that evening. Baluk says the Abercrombie boss then turns towards him and says... But that one guy, I don't want to see him again. That was me. Luke tells me he leaves the hotel trying to shut out the images of what's just happened and bury the memory.

What did you do? Where did you go? I went right to a nightclub in Madrid and I found a drug dealer and I bought as much ecstasy as I could buy. This place didn't, it never closed. And so I just remember staying at that club until two hours before my flight because I just couldn't even leave. I just didn't even want to go back out into reality and accept the fact of what had happened. I just remember going on that airplane, still on drugs, going through that airport security and just being the most depressed and broken I've ever been in my entire life. and broken I've ever been in my entire life. Back home in the US, Luke says he never really told anyone about what happened in Madrid.

Why didn't you want to tell anyone about it? Like, my whole life I've struggled with, you know, people thinking that I'm gay and I got bullied in high school because I have a soft voice. People think, oh, because I sound like this, I'm gay. The last thing on earth I was going to do is say something emasculating, like I got molested and orally raped by a guy. It's like the worst situation I could have possibly been in,

because I've already struggled with this issue, and then it happened. He tells me he's since told his parents and they were really supportive. But like many of the men I've spoken with, Luke says at the time, he was so worried about what people would think that it stopped him from speaking out.

Even more so than the non-disclosure agreement he'd signed. There's an immense amount of shame associated with this idea that you're not a masculine man if you've been molested or taken advantage of by another man. It's been an area that powerful men have been exploiting to take advantage of other men in that scenario. At this time, Luke's already struggling with drug use, and he says what happened in Madrid sends him into a spiral. It was absolute rocket fuel to my addiction because it just destroyed my self-worth. Like I was just so worthless that I could let something like that happen to me.

And whenever the thought would come up or I would be in a situation that triggered me or reminded me of it, I would just do the drugs to just keep it quiet. I mean, I've overdosed. I've been hospitalized with the electric paddles on me so they can shock my heart back to life because I just so didn't want to be me anymore. I so didn't want to be myself anymore. It's difficult to hear everything he says he's been through. Luke tells me that he tries to move forward with his life. He decides to move back home with his parents in the hope of starting over.

He works towards a new career, getting his license to start trading stocks and shares. But says his drug habit keeps reeling him in, drawing him towards selling something entirely different. The thing is, I tried to turn my life around, but it was, even though I was making strides, materially speaking, you know, I was a little bit more financially successful, my addiction kept right up with me. So at the time I started selling ecstasy to support my habit, you know, a hundred pills, then it was a thousand pills, then it was 10,000 pills of ecstasy. And eventually I was caught. In 2016, five years after what Luke says happened in Madrid,

he was arrested for selling drugs. He was sentenced to eight years, but only served six months of his sentence, spending the time at a correctional boot camp. Luke says it was brutal, but he made it through. And years on, he's finally turned his life around. He's quit both drugs and alcohol and now helps other people with addictions

alongside running his own business. It's only recently, within the last year, that I've been able to come to terms with this and start my journey of healing and speaking to others and helping others recovery from abuse. I would hope that this story can be one of inspiration, that somebody can go through horrible things and then come out the other side of it to be happy, you know, because there's a lot of people who think, oh, I've done this thing and nobody will ever respect me or love me again.

And that's just simply not the case. Luke says the experience with the Abercrombie guys has deeply impacted his life. Like him, some of the other men I've spoken with have told me that these encounters also took a toll on their 20s. Some have been able to move on, build new relationships. But others are still very much grappling, physically and emotionally, with the past. And for this man, it's an experience, he says, he will never forget. I couldn't even stand up.

Like, what is going on? Like, I never felt this way. I thought I was going to die. Did anybody try and help you? Did anyone try and get any help? They didn't even bother to call a doctor or an ambulance, 911. No, no, no. That didn't cross anyone's mind.

I don't know what they would have done if I'd passed away. We'll be back after this. What do Tiger Woods, Mark Zuckerberg and Taylor Swift all have in common? Well, their lives and fortunes are all being discussed on Good Bad Billionaire, the podcast exploring the minds, motives and the money of some of the world's wealthiest individuals. I'm Zing Zing and each week my co-presenter Simon Jack and I take a closer look at the world's mega rich and we try to decide whether they're good, bad or just another billionaire. From celebs and CEOs to spot stars and tech titans.

Find out how billionaires made their money and how they use it. Good Bad Billionaire from the BBC World Service. All episodes of season one and two are available now wherever you get your BBC podcasts and click follow or subscribe so you never miss a new episode. What Luke's told me about how he was recruited is new. All this while I've understood that it was Jim Jacobson, the Abercrombie guy's middleman, who was the main scout.

But from what Luke tells me, it now seems like some housemen may have been recruiting men too. We've already heard a lot about these young guys, always dressed in Abercrombie uniforms. Some simply did their boss's laundry, fed his dogs and served him dinner. But as we heard earlier in the series, there was also a smaller select group of staff who travelled with the Abercrombie guys and were present at their sex events, with some even carrying their boss's bag of sex toys.

with some even carrying their boss's bag of sex toys. And after this podcast was published, I was contacted by a man with a very specific story he wants to share about their role. The whole situation is sometimes a little bit scary and weird. But my main problem is the fact that they're literally injecting people with things without doctors or anything like that. Like, the point is, like, those are medicines, you know? Those are drugs, prescription drugs. This man, who I'm calling Chris,

met with the Abercrombie guys twice back in 2012. He's asked to remain anonymous because, like Luke, he also runs his own business now and doesn't want his past experiences to impact his work today. So this is an actor speaking his words. Chris tells me he was recruited the more usual way. A friend introduced him to the middleman, Jim Jacobson, telling him the money was good. But he said his friend didn't give him many details about what to expect. He was honest in a sense. It's going to be a party and things can happen. But, you know, like you're free to do whatever. Did they mention that sex might be involved? He said anything can

happen. Chris tells me he'd worked at private parties before, bartending, serving food, and one time just his eye candy. He's doing long hours in nightlife and struggling to pay the bills. So his friend's office sounds interesting. I had to work every night, like 10pm until like 7am in the bars in order to make like 100 bucks. So making the same amount of money I'm going to make in a month in just one single party. Yeah, that sounds fun. So that's how it started. Chris says his first event with the Abercrombie guys was at Mike Jeffries' mansion in the Hamptons

in 2012. He shows me the itinerary he was sent by Jim Jacobson to corroborate the dates. Similar to what we've heard before, Chris says he was flown to New York and met by a handsome guy in an Abercrombie uniform, one of Mike Jeffries' housemen, who gives him his own A&F clothing to put on, including a bathing suit and flip-flops, and says, We're gonna groom you because everybody going to the party is going to be groomed, if you don't mind. I said, yeah, sure.

After arriving in the Hamptons, Chris said he feels uncomfortable as he realises the true nature of the event, but just tries to go along with it as Mike Jeffries and Matthew Smith try to have sex with him. Seeing he was struggling, he says one of the housemen offers him a Viagra pill, but he's still not able to perform. It didn't work because I was extremely nervous, you know, uncomfortable situation with so many people, with the things I was seeing. It's like, bro, I don't know. Chris says he makes it through the event and a few days after the middleman Jim Jacobson sends him a wad of cash via courier and a month or so later he says Jim gets back in touch about another meeting with the Abercrombie guys. Why did you consider going back for another event?

Money. At the end of the day it's money you, you know. I said, OK, last time I was really uncomfortable. But at the end of the day, you know, nothing major, nothing bad happened. So Chris says he returns to New York. But this time he's not heading to the Hamptons, but instead to another home owned by the Abercrombie guys, their grand townhouse in one of the wealthiest and most exclusive parts of Manhattan. Just like the Hamptons Mansion, this home also looks like an Abercrombie store, with mahogany wooden panelling, sculptures and portraits of naked male models adorning the walls.

As Chris arrives, he says he's greeted by a houseman, the same one who'd shaved him at his previous event, who leads him and another model to a waiting room. We got offered again whatever we needed, cocktails, drinks. They offered me, oh, you can have a Viagra pill. And I said, well, last time it didn't work too well in the sense of, like, I was so nervous.

And the guy that worked for them said, you know what? You're going to try a shot. I said, a shot? I mean, I've never tried that before. Like an injection? An injection. Literally an injection straight into your penis to, you know, get an erection. He said, it's liquid Viagra. It works really well. Like most of the people here do it. And I'm like, I mean, okay. Literally like five seconds after they gave me that shot, my body started reacting in a really weird way. I started feeling so dizzy. I almost passed out. I said, I'm sorry. I need to go to the bathroom. The other model was like scared as shit. But like, you know, he was scared.

And the groomer was like, Jesus. I barely walked to the bathroom, got into the tub and I put it as cold as it would get. You said you were dizzy? Yeah, super dizzy, really hot. I couldn't even stand up. Like, what is going on? Like, I never felt this way. I thought I was going to die. Did anybody try and help you? Did anyone try and get any help? They didn't even

bother to call a doctor or an ambulance, 911. No, no, no. That didn't cross anyone's mind. I don't know what they would have done if I'd passed away. I think the only thing that actually saved me is jumping under the cold shower. Chris tells me he stays in the shower for at least 30 minutes until the icy water brings his body temperature back down. Meanwhile, he says he's told the Abercrombie guys are waiting in another room. When I finally managed to stand up, the first thing they asked me, the groomer, is like, oh sorry, they're waiting. Are you ready to go? Are you fucking kidding me right now? Are you serious? Anyway, after that whole situation, I obviously wasn't in the best state of mind, and my response was, uh, yeah, yeah, sorry,

I'm ready. Sorry, I'm ready? Now I feel like I would have walked out of there immediately. Call the police, make a big mess. That's what I would have done if I could go back in time. But I wasn't even myself. My mind wasn't thinking the right way. I felt like I was high. Were Michael and Matthew aware of how unwell you were? I mean, I was there.

We were supposed to go in, get ready, five minutes and go meet them. It was 45 minutes. And I saw the groomer going in, get ready, five minutes, and go meet them. And it was 45 minutes. And I saw the groomer going in and out a couple of times, so probably to let them know the situation. And once I managed to pull myself together, the groomer said, Are you ready? Not, Are you okay? Do you need help?

No, no, no. Are you ready? Fine. Let's go have sex. Let's go. That's not... That's so... You know, the whole situation, it hurts. Chris says he doesn't know what's happened. Maybe he's had an allergic reaction or something else. He feels like every cell of his brain is on fire. But he says Mike Jeffries and Matthew Smith then tried to have sex with him.

In that moment, he says he feels inhuman, as if he's disposable. It's like they use people like napkins, you know, like a tissue. Use you a couple times, throw it away. And after that, I left. I was never called back or anything. Chris says he leaves the Manhattan townhouse and never sees the Abercrombie guys again. He says he didn't seek help at the time because of the contract he'd signed before the event. In my mind, I was thinking about what the hell's going to happen now with that non-disclosure agreement if something happened to me.

happen now with that non-disclosure agreement if something happened to me like i remember it to be a long contract like 14 15 pages long like i i don't want to be in a lot of legal problems chris says he still clearly remembers the man who shaved and injected him he says he was young like him in his 20s and And what I've learned as this investigation has gone on is how the role of the housemen at these sex events continued to evolve. Speaking to Barrett Paul and David Bradbury, it sounded like they were there mainly to supervise the room, serving drinks and carrying silver platters of lube and poppers. But now I've been hearing that some were intimate body groomers, offering and injecting drugs, and possibly even recruiting young men to attend. Keith Milkey, the model-turned-opera singer, told me that he also had a bad experience

with these types of injections while at sea with the Abercrombie guys and their housemen on the Queen Mary 2. It's like instant hard-on. You know, you don't have to be attracted, you don't have to be anything. It just works. And I let this sort of butler guy do it. It's like, stupid me, you know, but you got these

guys doing injections who are like Abercrombie models, you know. It's like they probably shouldn't be handling needles. But, um, it's like, oh, you want to try this? Yeah, it'll be great. You know, you won't have to worry about anything. He did it wrong. I don't know if he hit a tendon. It was the most painful shit I've ever felt.

It hurts so fucking bad. It was like really a terrible situation. I was quite concerned for my own well-being. Keith says he was okay after a couple of days, but he hasn't forgotten the houseman who he says injected him. His name is listed on one of his event itineraries. He tells me this houseman had been bragging about having done some work for Abercrombie & Fitch at the same time as working for Mike Jeffries at these sex events. And I even managed to find out this houseman had an A&F company email. When I wrote to Abercrombie & Fitch about whether they were aware of some employees being involved in the running of Mike Jeffries' sex events, the company declined to answer, telling me it doesn't comment on legal matters. Mike Jeffries and Matthew Smith didn't respond to our email outlining the new allegations

in these latest two episodes, but they have previously issued statements through their legal teams saying they vehemently deny the claims, telling us, Looking back, it seems to me that Mike Jeffries' work and home life cannot have been more intertwined. You've got to understand, it's like the personification of Mike Jeffffries is abercrombie i mean everything is stemming from mike that honestly he was abercrombie he had the hair plugs the plastic surgery he wore the clothes he wore the flip-flops i mean you talk about power he projected his image on the entire country his places where he lived lived were literally an Abercrombie store. It was like fantasy land.

So basically when I say Mike was the brand, it's like he really was, you know. But then it was all over. After his reign as CEO of Abercrombie & Fitch came to an abrupt end in December 2014, Keith Mielke says he was with the Abercrombie boss at his Manhattan townhouse. Three days after it was publicly announced, he was stepping down. It was tense, like you could feel it. It's like, it's a different sort of meeting. You know, it's in the news that Mike is like going through all this turmoil, yet we're still seeing him in this context.

And it was just, it was definitely a deflated sort of energy that last meeting that I saw him. And he was quieter, you know, than he had been. And I remember at one point, I don't know if somebody had asked him, how have you been? But he just looked at the ground and he was in his underwear too you know just like the rest of us you know and it's just like i got fired and it was like almost sad i don't know you almost felt for the guy. So that was the last meeting. After the event, Keith says he never heard from the Abercrombie guys again. I don't know when exactly they stopped hosting these sex events,

but when I spoke to their middleman, Jim Jacobson, last summer, he told me he hadn't had any contact with the couple since 2015. Q thinks that final meeting with the Abercrombie guys marked the end of an era for Mike Jeffries. I imagine a lot of those activities got sort of shut down after that for various reasons, financial and also just to protect the image and the sort of information flow. I mean, it was just becoming too much, and without that sort of power, without that sort of fear and influence, I imagine, it's just a lot harder to keep people quiet, which is why years later people are talking about it. I don't know, I'm sure more and more people will.

The allegations against the Abercrombie guys span at least 2009 to 2014. And while they might seem historic, they're continuing to have present-day ramifications. Shortly after this podcast was published, a criminal investigation started. Federal prosecutors in New York and FBI agents have been issuing subpoenas to potential witnesses, legally compelling them to give evidence before court to determine whether there's enough to bring charges. All right, over the past six years, Fran Horowitz has rebuilt a mall apparel icon in Abercrombie & Fitch that fell on hard times under prior leadership.

Ten years on since Mike Jeffries stepped down, Abercrombie & Fitch is once again thriving under new leadership. Your stock has been expanding at a faster rate than even the most beloved tech giant out there. The company's no longer targeting the cool kids. It's going after grown-up women who love co-award sets and need outfits for weddings. Its offshoot brand, Hollister,

is reportedly dominating the teen market. Welcome back, Fran, on a really good day for you guys and the turnaround that you have implemented. It's once again bringing in billions of dollars across more than 750 stores around the world. We are staying so close to our customer and we're really, really listening. We've talked, you and I have talked about that before. really, really listening. We've talked, you and I've talked about that before. Since August 2023, we've repeatedly asked Abercrombie & Fitch and its new CEO, Fran Horowitz, for an interview. But it seems the company's been talking to every media outlet but us. After our podcast and documentary was published last year, the brand announced it

was opening an independent investigation into the allegations raised. When we recently asked when this report will be completed and if the findings would be made public, the company declined to answer. And while it finds itself yet again at the height of success, it's also facing legal action. Just like Mike Jeffries, the brand has been trying to get the civil lawsuit dismissed, arguing it had no knowledge of the supposed sex trafficking venture led by its former CEO, which it's been accused of having funded. In its legal defence, submitted to court, the company said, And he said... In late August 2023, the BBC alerted Abercrombie & Fitch to a stunning set of allegations.

The accusations shocked and appalled ANF's current leadership team, which was previously unaware of such allegations and which is proud of its efforts over the last 10 years to promote a diverse, inclusive and healthy culture at ANF. As Jeffries himself stated through council in response to the BBC's reports, the allegations relate to his personal life and, to the extent they occurred, were carried out separate and apart from his work at ANF. ANF abhors sexual abuse and condemns the alleged conduct by Jeffries and others described in the complaint in the strongest possible terms. But nothing in the complaint plausibly alleges that the company

was aware of, participated in or had anything to do with the exploitation alleged. As a journalist who first brought this to light, I feel like I've done my role, listening to all sides of the story, being fair, gathering the facts and setting them out. I tried my best to leave no stone unturned, and it's down to all of my sources, on the record and behind the scenes,

that these allegations are now public. The men who spoke out first, Barrett Paul, David Bradbury and Alex, opened the door for others like Luke, Chris and Keith Milkey to come forwards. When you consider how many moving parts and how many people were involved in this and how many people are holding their tongue, it's rare that you have what I would say hundreds with the information of this. And it's just not a story that's out there. I feel a little bit better walking away, having told my truth, not being beholden to some NDA for the rest of my life. And I think it's a good thing. You know, honestly, I think it would have eaten at me for the rest of my life. I think it's a good thing, you know, honestly. I think it would have eaten at me for the rest of my life if I didn't take this opportunity.

What I've learned so far, and heard time and time again, is that some men will never speak out, reluctant to drag up the past and go back in time when they've tried to move on. But for those who do, it can be life-changing. I wanted to just stay out of this and not get involved, but I want to have the message that people can overcome things like this in their life and they can move forward.

It's as if you gave me a lifeline to actually talk about all this. I just want to tell my truth because for the first time it feels like I can. I hope that my voice leads to some accountability and my coming forward gives me some peace and some peace to these other guys that I'm sure have suffered alone silently for the last decade or more, finding out that I'm not alone has been really relieving. Anyone can be the victim of sexual abuse. To anyone out there, I'd like you to know

that what's happened to you is not your fault, and you have every right to live a life full of peace and safety and love. There's a number of people that were involved with this and there's a lot of people that have been kept quiet and I just feel like it's only right for me to speak up just so that they know that they're not alone. If it helps at least one person, then I feel like I did what I came here to do. And what would you like to see happen next?

I know there's a lawsuit. I just hope, like, whatever the law is regarding all these issues, well, it gets served to everybody involved. The story of how I uncovered these events and the highly organised network behind them is over for the time being. This podcast has been a live investigation and I'll keep following new leads.

But for now, it's for the authorities and the justice system to decide what happens next. You've been listening to World of Secrets. Thank you for coming on this journey with us. I'll be back if there are more developments in this story. You can reach me at rihanna.croxford at bbc.co.uk. In the meantime, please ensure you follow or subscribe to World of Secrets. That way you'll get all new investigations automatically, starting very soon with season four. We then have season five coming up in October and season six in November. That's three more major global investigations

from the BBC and we'll have more in 2025. The Abercrombie Guys is presented and investigated by me, Rhianna Croxford. The series producer is Ruth Evans. The BBC News Investigations Editor is Ed Campbell and the podcast editor is Richard Fenton-Smith. Sound design and mix by Stephen Thompson, Neva Masirian and Sarah Hockley. Technical support from Jonathan Glover, James Beard and the BBC Miami Bureau.

Production support by Sophie Hill and Katie Morrison. The Abercrombie Guys is a BBC News long-form audio production for BBC Sounds. This podcast is made in collaboration with BBC Panorama. The editor is Karen Whiteman. You can also watch the TV documentary on BBC iPlayer or BBC Select if you're in the US. Across Europe, you can now view it on BBC Nordic Plus The World of Secrets theme music is by Jeremy Wormsley. The commissioners at BBC Sounds are Dylan Haskins and Louise Catton-Horne. Thank you. and the money of some of the world's wealthiest individuals. I'm Zing Zing, and each week my co-presenter Simon Jack and I take a closer look at the world's mega rich, and we try to decide whether they're good, bad, or just another billionaire. From celebs and CEOs to sports stars and tech titans,

find out how billionaires made their money and how they use it. Good, Bad Billionaire from the BBC World Service. All episodes of season one and two are available now wherever you get your BBC podcasts and click follow or subscribe so you never miss a new episode.