Worlds Beyond Number - Fireside Chat for Chapter 3

Episode Date: September 10, 2024

Join the cast as they lift Arc 3 over their heads, take off its head and gulp up that delicious Arc juice. Look out for the juice, you're in the SPLASH ZONE! Would you believe we do one of these for every episode? Well, guess what, kiddo, we absolutely do. For more like this, join us on the Patreon. It's fun! Always be closing! Hard sell!We've got LOTS OF STUFF coming up this month "by the fireside" over on our Patreon. See the Drop Sched right here, and then join the Patreon, you DESERVE it!Worlds Beyond Number is:Brennan Lee MulliganErika IshiiAabria IyengarLou Wilson and is produced, designed, and scored by Taylor Moore at Fortunate Horse with exquisite design and editing help from Jared OlsonSPECIAL THANKS TO: Tazer Army, Shannon, and Amanda Freberg!Transcript of this episode coming soon! You can find transcripts of all our episodes here, for free, on our Patreon.Our album art is by the great Corey Brickley 

Hello everyone and welcome to the public fireside chat for Chapter 3 of the Wizard, the Witch, and the Wild One. I'm your host, Erica Ishii, and with me, as always on my fireside jets, Abria Ayngar. Ah, hoo! Crackle, crackle, congratulations on a beautiful arc. And congratulations to you too. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

And here are Fearless GM Brennan Lee Mulligan. A hoo-hoo, crackle, crackle. Thanks for listening to Chapter 3, y'all. We're so happy to share it with you. We're very happy to share it. And speaking of sharing, our most shareful friend. Is it, do I, am I myself when we do these? Usually, yes.

No, I think for the first one. Yes, no, you're always yourself when you do this. Am I? Yes. Well, I am. Your eyebrows are doing something crazy right now. Because it's me, Lou Wilson. Yay!

He's ripped off a mask. For those that might be wondering about what the hell we were just talking about. Yeah, why I don't know if I'm me. Which in a sort of existential sense, I guess all of us wonder from time to time. We're constantly questioning. Yeah, identity is a project, who am I? This is a safe space in which to do so. Totally.

Well, normally we do these fireside chats behind our little fire side chats. behind our little fireside, which is our Patreon. The firewall. The firewall. Have we ever called? Oh, my God. So normally our sort of discussions and doing bits and hanging out and talking about the episodes happens back on the other side of our Patreon. But this one is for all of you that are listening to the show.

Hello. Out in the main feed. And Lou Wilson, you know, I'll put it this way. There's a lot of very colorful characters that show up in the fires. What can I say? I'm a busy man, and I can't make them all. But I've got a large network I can call on in times of need. Speaking of which, can I just get an update on how the search for Atlanta went?

Great. I found it, which was kind of exciting. But, you know, it was kind of one of those things where it was like a kind of whirlwind romance, very fun two weeks. And then I was like, I kind of miss my bed. And so I'm home for a second, but adventure awaits. As always. Thanks for making the time. That's wonderful.

Thank you for making the time. And I do have to say a lot of your friends that you have called on to fill in for you and the fireside have been not only very helpful and insightful in their performances, but also in helping bring back our boy Brennan. Oh, that's right. Yes, yes. Well, I was there for that, right? Yeah. Was I? Yeah, I was there.

I think so. I have trouble remembering sometimes. You know, when you live a life, it filled with so much fancy as someone like me does, you know. With so many amazing friends like Tomahawk. Boyle. Johnson. Richard Goose. Richard Oklahoma.

Oh, yeah. Edo Brown. God. God. So many friends of the podcast. Yoda. Wail. Frank.

Oh, Yoda. We need to get Don Pimento in. We had to reschedule him. Oh, that's right. Yeah. He's great. But we're here to talk about chapter three of the wizard. the witch and the wild one.

What a delight this chapter was. Is that the one we want? It started delightful. We're like, we're going to meet witches. It's going to be great. And then you made it scary and hard and terrified. And then we ended delightful again. I think I'm still in scary.

I am. Suvie's off to go see her boyfriend. Yeah. Amay and Ursula are doing a yakety sacks out of the castle. It's very, very true. Yeah. Suvie is in scary. which is where she started.

But it's really, really fun. This chapter of this story, which we're sort of going to talk about and review during our time together and share our feelings about the chapter, which we've been doing over on the fireside. And again, I'll just mention that this month, if you're listening to this talk back, this month is... Hit it, dude.

Hit those talking points. Get it. These fucking bullets are getting fucking fired out of the Brennan gun. All of you, You in the public are in for a real treat right now. Brennan is going to share it with you something that he shares with our patrons usually only exclusively. Hit it, Brennan. For those of us that are considering, we would love to have you come join us by the fireside.

Our Patreon's five bucks a month, and there we share fireside chats where we deep dive into the characters and their motivations in the week's previous episode. We often release some bone cones, some bonus content, interludes and side adventures. This month, September, we have two different interludes coming to the Patreon. We have character subclasses, the Wizard of the Citadel, maybe a little Paladin homebrew subclass. If rumors are correct, we're getting a awesome revision post-play test for the Homebrew Witch class, which is a playable class in 5E Dunedonies and Dragons for those that have always wanted to play a witch. Now you have a way to do so.

And we also have a 100 plus page lore glossary that will be published to the Patreon. That's all coming in the month of September, as well as some video content. Whoa. Oh, my God. Did you say video content? Some video content over on the Patreon of some,

I have to say, top-notch artistic talent. Stop. Stop that. Stop that right now. If you ever want to see, if you ever want to see, I think people really render

the heart's sight on the page with the gift of artists. You quit it, man, all right? I mean, they don't understand why I'm having the most of reaction, but they could. Hey, Lou, I need you to know I had the same problem.

I made the same bad guess. When watching the video, because I forgot the real answer to one of the drawings. Fucking stop it, dude. Also, Abria is such an amazing argument. It's unbelievable. You're in for a real treat. If you get on the fireside, you will watch an artistic ability emerge that is just unfair in addition to all of Abria's many times. We were all doing a little bit.

We were doing a goof. That's truly what is. Like, I thought we were all having a goof. And then I quickly found out that my friends were actually quite talented. And I'm the only one, stop, stop, you know. I think you're an artist. I think you understand the heart of things. I'll take that.

What happened between us drawing and then Abria doing what she did was like going to karaoke and finding out that your friend's cousin is Andrea Bocelli. We've really oversold a thing I was drawing in two minutes. I don't know. I just rewatched it as well and I was like, damn, Abria. So so much fun stuff is going to be by the fireside on our Patreon. And whether you join the Patreon to get all that amazing extra content and to help support the show and help support the people who make it, including our not just the four of us, but our amazing producer and production staff and all the awesome people that work at Worlds Beyond Number and Fortunate Horse, we would just be delighted to have you come by. And even if you just share the show here at the end of this amazing chapter, consider sharing with your friends because we love to get.

new people by the fireside from word of mouth and have had their pals vouch for it. So thank you so much. Every time we sit down in a fireside, I strap in in the vest of we are going to work. It is time to promote the podcast. You're just so good. Yeah. We appreciate you, Brennan. And we appreciate all of you listening.

Wow. That was an alley. Oh, my God. Dang. They plan that one. And today on this public fireside, we are here to discuss. The entirety of chapter three, witch con, as we so cutely call it. So this is the craziest part of this chapter to me.

The time span of this chapter is so radically different. This was essentially 48 hours. One sleep. One sleep, right? Or in Sufi's case, none's sleep. I got one sleep. Three days, one sleep. Isn't it two sleeps?

No. You guys all got two sleeps. Okay. And I got one sleep. It's kind of, I think it's where, yeah, it's like 36 hours because it's like day one, you roll up, the witches roll up. Hakea goes like, I'm tired and then goes to bed. And then the next day is the big day where everything fucking happens. Yeah.

So it's, we all got there and then went to sleep. And then like day one, the witches all get there and have the first part of the conclave. And then night party, big. fight, we find out everything in the world, one sleep, day two of WitchCon, and we all leave on Day 2 of Witchcon. Well, I, though, also am lucky enough to get to use

switching between time zones to get one more sleep in in the first episode. Yes. That's right. I sneak in an... But it's all about time zones. Where we actually started? Like, this chapter starts with Amé deep in the frozen valley with the

orchard of icy trees. Yeah. The wizard sky aboard the meridian flying to the north and Ursulaan in a borough in Galtham. The International House of Pancakes just fucking living well. Ro Ro Ro Roe Irks. Boy, we're a long way from Ro Ro and his

pancakes. I'll tell you that. Man, what a strong, what a strong sweet start. It was lovely. I miss that. But we had the, so to give our sort of like overview of the chapter, right, Ursulon

connects with his family and then ventures towards the near spirit gets some gifts from Callias a magical artifact comes close to almost hearing or seeing the man in black

and instead peels off and ends up finding orima who gifts the horse Haliman, the spirit horse solar horse that takes them across the world that music was so incredible

Taylor had for that the horse and then Suvi arrives. injury, the Witch of the Wind and Stars, and there's the negotiation of how the Citadel Wizard may be allowed into the Witch's Keep, and that's navigated through Suvi and Amé and injury. So much tap dancing.

I love that you're like, welcome to this palatial, glass-like ice palace. Erica, Amé will be tap dancing for the next 72 hours. Begin. Double off the buffalo. First, get your friend inside the door of which con. She did not buy a badge. Yeah. That's so funny.

And then, yeah, Witchcon really kicks off in earnest. We meet Costa the Bear. We meet Ara, who's sort of like the Aurora Borealis spirit. That is in the retinue of injury. And you guys are all in sort of that main hall. We see the keep of the world's heart. We see the Tower of the Crescent Moon. And then the other witches arrived.

Gromor and Hakea arrive with their retinue, Zokoro and Bodze. didn't arrive till after the first night. No, I think you guys get there earlier in the day, see your chambers, and they arrive that night, I think. I could be wrong. Well, Ercelon arrives first after interrupting a very tense moment between Suvi and Amé. Yeah, you don't, you, Suvi doesn't sleep until, I don't think so, at least, but

Maybe I'm wrong. But the, you guys... This too is part of our normal fireside chat. It's actually unimportant, but yeah. Yeah. And then the... Because I think that the witches arrive sort of towards the end of the day, which is why Hakea calls the meeting.

Gotcha. Right? Like, their retiners arrive. Witch of the wild hunt, which of the woodland green. And then Marara, which of the waning moon in the conclave chamber, calls the meeting. And we see that they're going to destroy. Amen.

We unfold from there. I think after that, it's like dinner together. There's the attack on the wizard straw from Grimor. We hear about the Antivalist. We go to the Library of Stars, the music box.

The scarf with Neif and the scarf. We find a bug in the scarf. I mean, I think for non-fire side patrons who might be listening to, I mean, I don't think think we probably, they probably haven't heard us discuss at length, the fact that Abria was fully Manchurian candidate id and that we had no idea the entire time. That's right.

We're just watching Abria be like, what if we all sang a song at dinner and going, what the fuck are you doing? Well, yes, of course. We should sing together. Truly, some hoodwinkery by two persons at this table. I may never forgive. Oh, no. That's right.

The gayest spell and the modify memory that were placed on Suvi, that was running a scene without Lou and Erica being in the room. So the entire chapter, they were unaware. But it makes for very good fireside content, y'all, because like getting when like Suvee's sort of plan now that it's like understood, watching my friends go, that's what you were doing worth its weight. I thought it was just because you thought injury was hot. And yet, and yet. Oh, she's got a music box. That's so nice. She's describing so specifically where she wants to put it.

Yes, when you were like, I'm leaving her a gift. I was like, oh, that's so nice. Truly, chapter three, to sum up so far, chapter three, witch con, a lot of politicking and treachery amongst friends at this table. We have the scenes from this chapter, the battle in Hakea's Keep, being approached by the man in black with the sword of night. Ursula being swallowed up into a lady's torso. How about it. Yeah, Bade fully kind of folded you in.

Yeah, man. Hey, I bet nobody knew that Ursula was that flexible. You know what? We didn't talk about that enough. No one's ever asked Ursula to hit a split before, but he couldn't. Wait, can Ursula do the like sidesy and middle Z splits? Oh, of course. But he can only do, he can do the sides that he has to kind of get into,

but the middley he can do the full kind of jump into, you know? Dang. Wow. Yeah. You know, hey, he's a spirit, you know. Wait, so are all spirits flexible? I don't think so, but I think Ursula is, Ursulaan is especially bendy. Oh, nice.

He is his father's son. There is, exactly. We had the following that we had of course the vote for us we had the library of stars and that information came together with Ursula and Suvi to discover the nature of the Covenant of elders, Yoola, the tree of worlds, the wand of covenant. We did a lot. We really did a lot in 36 hours. Yeah. Covered your tracks with Vandal the Ink Demon. Let's go.

We met Teph met the Antivalist. I don't like them. They are very cute. I'll kiss them. I'll kiss them. I'll kiss them, but I'm not a fan of their ideology. And then we had the vote. Amme's station was not destroyed.

Unanimous, unanimous vote. My first vote, I wonder what. I'm excited to see which way you'll go. Yeah, God, so fun. After which we saw the presentation of the Antivolis, the lenses of the Derrick of the Scepter's chorus in Port Talon, and a powerful confrontation between our heroes in the keep of the world's heart about the future of humor, the nature of the citadel, and the Covenant of Elders joining the Man in Black to wage war on the Citadel. A second vote was held, and the Coven voted for war.

Suvi fled to the meridian and discovered that Silver, her love was in danger in the shroud mountains at the frontier of war as Ursula Amme, the fox, and an unconscious apprentice Neef. With a chamberbott on her head. And a brand new lion door knocker got on a magical rock after being awakened by the diamond spirit slash coal spirit Toff and flew Fortoma as the. the witch of Winden Star's wrath echoed out. That's a big old chapter game. But wait, there was more. A post-credit sequence that we didn't know about. Is this how you all felt the whole time?

Because I felt betrayed. I didn't know this was coming. Exactly. Now you never know what is, you know. What was decided in a room that you were asked to leave and you went on a long walk up to the Batman cage? during, you know? You just never know. There was so much delight in all the little hidden pieces of information.

The scene between Suvie and Steel, that last little post credit scene with the man in black there in Brockvale, back on the aisle of a com. I want to kick us over to our first question. Thank you for everyone who submitted questions. Yeah, thank you. This first one comes from Abigail. Thank you, Abigail. When you think back to the very beginning, what are the aspects of your character's arc or growth

that surprise you most or make you most proud in this chapter? How did the characters change this chapter? You're not allowed to go first, Abram. Okay. No, you go. That's okay. You can go. I mean, you can go first.

You should go first. Sure. I think it's nice that we just wrapped the chapter because for me, for Suvie, It was the acknowledgement of the justification machine and the decision to go like, click and turn it off and be fully present for everything that was said in the letter from Silver, not just close to drop in a really important L-bomb that Suvi just desperately needs to hear. But realizing that there were things about the Citadel's intentions that were shared there,

that Suvi would normally just go, huh, warby Warren, and instead going like, what is happening and what are we doing? Yeah, that's my answer. Respect, respect. Her friends taught her to care. It was a bad fight and not fully resolved,

especially between Suv and Amé, but like with a little bit of time and safety and like processing, the point remains. Like, look at the Citadel, see what they're doing, and if it's as bad as Tephman is saying, and like the witches are believing, do something about it or walk away.

Keep your promise to your friends. There's something in that tiny moment that Suvi takes where she describes being back on the ship. And I thought that the moment was so fascinating and provided such a deep insight into Suvi and maybe even by extrapolation sort of like a reed of human nature. Suvi, on the back foot, exhausted in deep danger in Injury's castle, is in full-throated defense of the citadel.

Gets on the ship, just bodies rasper to the ground, asserts her authority, has sworn come back in and be like, we've got your back. It commands the ship to change course, and that ship fucking changes course, and has a list of every promised you were supposed to keep you kept. It is not the feeling at the end of chapter two where your friends have escaped or the feeling of chapter one where you didn't keep Port Talon on ice. We see Sufi keep it on ice, no pun intended, with this North Pole chapter. So the fact that Suvi gets to the place of ultimate security, ultimate status that she has achieved thus far, earned status where she has like not only the station, but the authority

and commands the respect of people underneath her. And that is the moment where she says, I turn off the justification machine. What was that moment about? Why do you think that is the moment of, because I know you're saying, like, her friends taught her to care. And obviously, it's informed by those experiences in the Witch of Winden Starr's Castle. But I thought it was so fascinating to depict someone opening a. room for doubt, not at their lowest or most frightened point, but actually at the moment of utmost control and comfort. I think it has to do with exactly that. And there's also that

idea that when you're fighting for the ground that you feel like you have to defend, you're like, God, if my friends had just listened to me, Port Talon would have been different or the exit from the Citadel would have been different, but she never had the proof of her own, like, competence in that way. Like, the very, like the first time we meet Suvie, she wants to prove herself. And I think it was at the end of this arc where she's like, I kept a promise, I don't remember. And I kept them safe. And I saved, like, my crew that I could. And I locked it in. And I wasn't overly ambitious to go do something crazy with the wand, even though I wanted to so bad. I got it done. And now here, I know that I'm right when I say I can do this. And I think there is

something in the like internal security of like, I am on my throne of I trust my mind and my ability to get shit done. That now I can like turn on doubt and feel like I can weather whatever that will be because I'm strong enough and smart enough to handle whatever will come of that like curiosity turned on my home. Yeah. I definitely have felt that in my own life where if you feel like you owe a bond of loyalty to a person, an institution, think about like friends where you're out in mixed company, a friend of yours gets criticized, you leap to their defense. And you're like, hey, hey, I'm sure this is a misunderstanding. We can work this out.

And then get in the car and drive home. And on the drive home, you turn to your friend. And you're like, what the fuck did you do? Yeah, yeah. A thousand percent. I really think there is that, those concentric rings of belonging and mutual obligation and loyalty and how you, like, manage those. I don't know, it just felt so profoundly true. I never would have foreseen that, but I just love that moment of my friends have asked me to at least be critical.

And I am going to begin that process now at my apex. And it kind of made me go back and go like, yeah, there is sadly like an unreasonableness to ask that level of scrutiny from someone who's scrambling for their very life. Yeah. You know, like. Because that becomes like, well, if I, if she commits to it then, then the like critique and ire only lasts as long as she feels bad about the citadel. Like that's not a permanent change to her disposition. If you go from my high point, I am different now. I've done everything.

I know I'm going home. If I just go home right now, big party, probably a fucking parade maybe. I don't know. It's going to be great. That's the moment where you go, like, I'm different and this will weather highs and lows because I've put this on myself when I could load it. Like, I could load it and it can become something internal to me all the time and not just a reaction. I love that.

For Ame or for Ursulaan, what feels like a growth in this chapter? Ursula. Ursula has aim, baby. I think there's something, you know, it's funny to do like the whole recap because it is like, oh, it feels so fitting that Ursulaan finds aim in the chapter where he finds home, you know, where it's like the space is created for him. And there's that comfort that comes at the beginning of the chapter that, of course, is the foundation that once Ursula learns about these issues around that Tafmet is revealing kind of just a glimpse of that there is this now desire to be like I can take more on or want to do more. because I now have a foundation that's not just, I hope that these two people will let me hang around them for as long as they, you know, aren't so taken by their institutions that they have space for me.

There's just this like kind of like, okay, what's up? I've got, I've got that beautiful home in Gouthamai. I can go and ask for more from myself and from the world. I there's something I again just making realizations even as we're sitting here like the fact that ursalan's big like gain is aim and like the symbol of it is like that compass and you got it at the magnetic north of the world is like sometimes things just hit and you're like we got layers on layers on layers layers you don't want some motif so it just really you know if I think it's Chapter three feels like such a turning point in this story, kind of in the larger sense, just with how potent all three characters feel. And I think that's reflected in Ursula,

in this like, what's up? I'm no longer just like somebody's protector. I'm that. And in addition, I have my own wants and needs. It's so interesting, because we talk a lot about the games that we play and the framework of our storytelling being aided and abetted by the mechanics of D&D. And I think it's interesting that thus far, you know, in Arc 3,

our characters are still young, you know, they're 20, early 20s, and they are still what we would think of as lower level, but are starting to come into themselves, emotionally and mentally and in terms of navigating the world around them and that the mechanics have slowly started to tell that story as well. Suvi's secrets for dear public, the Wizard of the Citadel subclass, it fucks. It fucks. It fucks so hard. And you would know that if you joined the Patreon.

Yes. During this month. It's the idea of. of knowledge being power and having the design of it reflect that. And then of Ame, learning witch things and being able to enact. We saw the first time Ame's curses, retributive curses from witches, which is part of the mechanics of witchcraft, kick in at a... That grasp dog.

Right? Like, at a moment, like a climactic moment, at two climactic moments. And it's in some ways, yeah, both in a storytelling manner and finally in a combat manner. And Ursulaan getting the kind of gear that a gearhead would need to put him on his quest. Yeah, absolute gearhead, Ursula. Ursulans just hunting for artifacts now. How many swords can we get you some extra arms? Yeah, and Ursula knows that in this world there are plus one, plus two, and plus three swords.

And he knows he needs a plus four sword because he's already got a pretty dope sword. Yeah, dude. Oh, the minute I can gear up. Waiterker is like an artifact. And you're like, anyway. I bet they get better. Why do they can get something with a little more juice in it?

Well, for sure. But wave breaker, it's also about the utility of it. Like wave breakers are plus three sore. That's his best. I mean, I'm not saying I get rid of it. Ursulaan's always been bound to be a two-sword guy. All right? Let's get real.

I'll say this. Wavebreaker. is clearly like a gentle great spirit sword because it's like remove curse disfell magic. It's the sword's whole energy is hey man. Hey man. Whereas that sort of knight who knows what that's going on. God, it's so cool.

Can cut the apple from a man's eye and the screen from his step. Yeah, we all, we all want that sword though. We want him to have that sword a little bit. Or so I can have the sword. I'll take, no. He'll take the man in blue. I was going to be a little more vulgar than that. But yeah, that's what we were saying.

That's what I'm saying. The subheading for this chapter, I'm realizing in terms of what everybody walked away from this with. Because, of course, this chapter three of the Wizard of Witch and the Wild One, you all got the wand, the watch, and the win. Yay! Shut up! We're fun. We're fun. I think doves, all doves all day here on Worlds Beyond Number.

I would say for Amé, Amay's arc is that, I mean, she spent this whole campaign so far, kind of being on the back foot. She's had massive shoes to fill. She's a new, like essentially a new witch. She's new and a young adult and hasn't figured herself out yet, much less being, like being able to step into the shoes of one of the most powerful stations of witchcraft in the world. And so she's been trying to get rid of a curse, trying to find her way back home, trying to get to a meeting where she's told that if she doesn't show up, she'll die.

And, you know, sort of, it's coming from all sides for Amei. And I think by the end of this, understanding her power, like, it all came together. Like, with all of us, you know, we started out in the North Pole, absolutely on the back foot,

with these mean witches and, like, trying to kill Ame, trying, like, breaking open and drinking open and drinking, drinking one of the wizards in the retinue. Too soon. I know. Pour one out of the wizard straw.

Pour one out of the wizard straw, yes. But I think by the end, Amey realizing the importance of her station and how she relates to it because she really can't fulfill it in the way that Grandma Ren did, she has to find her own spin on the station. And for her, I think, you know, escaping death and making friends in the castle. and then of course leaving it in an absolutely unhinged fashion is Amé being able to reconcile her station and who she is because as we have said on the fireside friends

Amme was not born responsible and caring like Amé had to have a reminder next to her bed be kind she's a little trickster her thing that she needs to work on is, uh, uh, in her familiar, a fox, the mischievous stealing little, uh, uh, near do well. I think there's something to, yeah, like the beginning of chapter two in the flashbacks to Ame's training. We see the, that little scene where she's like, I could make them think I'm normal. Like, you know, have, there's a little, that little, that little, indregoated. Yeah. Injury. Um, but there's something, there's something to, thinking about it as well, like,

we see Wren, you know, like how much, so we meet her in the children's adventure. By the way, for those listening that have listened to the public episode, if you remember the very first episode of the podcast where we see the little interlude of the characters as children, we have eight full, beautifully scored and sound designed episodes that are the full story of the magical summer where Suvei Amé and Ursula all met and became friends. That's all available on the Patreon, on the fireside. Five dollars. It's like one of the best things that I've ever been a part of.

Sign up. Sign up for a month and then listen to it and then bounce. We recommend anything you want to do. Like we're totally fine with that. Come check out the stuff. We have some amazing stuff on the fireside. We just want you to come hang out and see it all. And the children's adventure is so, so special and very near and dear to my heart.

But in that flashback, you know, so what? That was like 14 years before the events of the main campaign. So we saw Grandmother Wren in the last 14 years of her, you know, century-long service as the witch of the world's heart. And I think that like even her familiar, which was Taro, the rooster, the difference between a rooster and a fox as your sort of like spiritual symbols for what the world's heart is. I think that there is something to, to Ren. And obviously I think Ren is like, I love Grandmother Ren so much and she's such an important mentor figure for Amme. for Amé's arc in this, people were asked to question a lot of things here.

Ursulaan has only ever been treated kindly and respectfully by the man in black and had to ask what's going to happen in my friends. And he got a straight fucking answer, man. My man did not lie. I was like, why? Nothing but respect. Yeah, I did it. That's your name.

Brother Ursula. There's a, I do. love the man in black. In terms of wanting to, wanting spirits to be in human, in the positive way, they are not human beings, there is no fucking hustle from the man in black.

There is no like, well, well, well, if you think about it this way, it's like, oh yeah, they got to go. Yeah, for sure. It is, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's honesty. But the, and then Suvee's reckoning with the gay ass

and this strange thing of having a compulsion to do something that you can't understand, this incredible mission for these stars. For Ame, the original push in the council meeting of, like, you saying Ren is the greatest witch ever, and getting this pushback from these other four witches being like, I mean, she was all right. They really screamed mid at you. It was wild. And then in the final vote where you were like, do I not have time to try and find some other way? And the coven saying that was Wren's exact request and she did not find it.

And then the scene with Marara in her keep where she was like, you might not like what I represent, but I'm a good witch and Ren was a bad witch. is there being like you cannot claim to represent the whole of the mortal togetherness and of humanity and of the things that work side and side with each other and represent that solely as wholesome, not when great empires and dominions march to war with each other. And there's a, is there any part of Ame that in thinking about, the years grandmother Wren had to try to find some other way out. There's a big hole in Ame's knowledge there and a question about what grandmother Wren was doing.

Because obviously, you knew that she was up to quest and adventures all the time. But is there any, is Ame walk out of Chapter 3 with unshakable faith in Grandma Wren with any questions about how to live up to her? or is there some doubt in Ame or a question of if I don't, like, if the way Grandma Ren was doing this, I don't understand or don't see how it works, how do I do this in my way? Yeah, I think it's that last bit of that. I think Amei reveres and loves Grandmother Wren as a mentor and as her only family figure. but that I think she understands that if it took her 30 years and she was not able to convince the witches

or enact the kind of change that she wanted, that there's something else. Like, Amé, I think, she has read the letters between Stone and Wren. And Amay has sort of been raised, for this, for this role in the way that Grandma Wren thought was important. But I think

that there are things that Ame values and finds important and is willing to do, I think, that Wren couldn't have seen. Yeah. And I think Ame's starting to realize that. Even aside from them

being different people, I think their comparative age matters. You know what I mean? Like, we saw in Hakea the downfalls of even as great as it is to have a powerful witch. Like there's some shaky ground when you transition to a new witch of a station. You're low level. You don't have the experience. You don't have the chops.

But we also see on the flip side, Hakea, who was asleep, who had infiltrators in her retinue, who had... Nothing worse than being like, oh, Hakea seems fun. Oh, she's awake. No! No! Go back to bed! No! Well, and I think what we saw with that, too, and the whole problem with having people,

with not having fresh blood in any administration is that you lose touch. Yeah. You lose touch with the world. You lose touch with what is possible. You don't want to act. You want to take your time. Or when you act, you make these broad, sweeping generalizations. Like, there, I'm sorry, their.

The altar covenant is just really old, really, like, famous. comedians that used to do stand-up that have come back now and you're like, none of your material is relatable. Yeah. It's true. It's true. It's like, yeah, of course,

you can't say those things. It's not that nobody was offended before. It's just like you didn't have social media for the, you don't know about that. You can't cast any of the spells you used to be able to cast these days. Let me tell you, you go to on a college campus

and try to cast some of these spells. All the wizards yell at you. See, I don't know. When you guys talk about Morning Rent Song, you know, you're talking about that old Morning Red Song. I always think just about that five-two baddie. In that Quarterly hat. That's what she'll always be for me, you know. I only got one Morning Red Song in my head.

It's remarkably the hottest person in this campaign, according to Bradley Mulligan. Yeah. I think so. I think so. Physically incapable of rendering her in art, that's how hot she is. Yeah. No one can do it. Just too good.

I didn't see anybody do it. I dare you to render a five-two batty in a corduoy hat. It's, well, I think, too, that, like, even looking at Ame's adventures, it feels like, you know, zooming out for a second on this chapter, because it was so fun. And it was so, again, like, wild how short the time frame was and how much was accomplished. It also felt like a kind of adventure I haven't done for a very long time in D&D, which is the idea of, as much as much as, whimsical, this wasn't a palace of ice, this was a, like, political intrigue chapter. Yeah. It was

a spy, political intrigue. This was like the kind of King's Landing vibe, but just without sort of like grotesque, steeple-fingered, like, power, my lees, like, you know, a lot of those chaos is a lot of. A lot of those stories are like

oops, all grima worm tongues, you know, like, as opposed to... Oh, sorry, hold on. I don't get that reference Come on, we were there. I don't think we saw that one. Brad Doris, no eyebrows. Did you just hard-stop the podcast to go, wait, hold on, I missed my cue? I missed my cue.

I missed the on-ramp for my bit. But to zoom out, the global implications of this adventure, right, the Citadel now firmly knows the Covenant of Elders. That wrinkle of power has been, like, explored by an age. agent of the Citadel, the library of stars captured, right? I want one. A house. Okay. So, we're over.

I will say one of my partners made a meme that is like, you wouldn't download a star, would you? I love it. Totally. We hard drive copied outer space and we're out of there. But also, Sly's prophecy was fulfilled. This is my, this is when I wanted to talk to. you about so let's use as the like how did it feel setting up like in no uncertain terms like

it wasn't vague enough prophecy that anything could fill it like how did it feel in the execution of arc three like landing and nailing Sly's prophecy because at one GM to another prophecy is so it's fun and scary because all of a sudden you're like it's a it's like a sticky note on top of your game where you're like, got to make sure I'm not dropping the ball on that. Yes. I think that the nice thing you do, the way that I felt about Sly's prophecy was looking back over it, the prophecy he gives in chapter two, the things that were actionable for you guys were firmly on the side of things you would do anything to avoid.

In other words, in other words, if you make a prophecy that's like, Like, the next time you go get ice cream, you're all getting pistachio. That is a thing where the PCs are like, like, fuck I am. I'll get mint chocolate chip to prove a point. But the idea of... Wait, that's my favorite. What are you saying? Like, but being like, hey, a failure to do these things results in Ame's death. And the fact that that is close enough to a prediction as a prophecy.

In other words, once you realize that he's telling the truth and that there is clearly a conspiracy to destroy Amé, then avoiding it is more about using the prophecy for the information it communicated than it is about whether it comes to pass or not. In other words, if I give you a prophecy and I'm like, I've seen the future, a train is barreling down the track you're standing on and your shoes are stuck. but if you reach behind you, there's a rope back there. We cut back to you in the moment and you're like, well, I sure a shit can't move my feet. And there's the train. It's not unusual for you to look for that rope I mentioned. Right? Does that make sense?

Like in terms of how you construct prophecy, I think as in constructing prophecy is the same thing as constructing adventure paths in general, which is follow not your logic of the scene you want to see. follow the logic of what your players are going to want to do. Yeah. If I'm thinking about your guys' wants and needs, that is the path the water wants to travel down. That's where the groove is. So I think that's the trick with prophecy. But how would you know, Brennan?

How do you know? Typically, people don't want to die. Typically, people want their friends to be okay. And also we've played a fair amount of games together. So I feel like at this point. Do you feel like you have good, like, LLMs of each of us. Oh yeah.

Yeah. That's one of my favorite things where I'm like, I think I can do a reason. You don't fucking know me? The casual thing is surprised I will never go away. I swear to God if I had a

not paper in front of me, I would have written down Lou has a problem with this. Of course. I would have written. What am I going to say? No, no, that's not cool. That's not cool, dude.

Even your rebellious streak is predictable history. Stop. No, you just say that. You're just saying that. Fuck you, dude. We edited these podcasts, I would edit in right now a supercut of all the times that Brennan has called a loose shot. Taylor, if you do that, I'll fire you. You can't do that.

I'll figure it out. I'll figure out a way to fire you. The idea of, but yeah, that coming true for Sly. And then on the flip side of that, we, so it feels like this huge global turning point for the citad. and in fact, again, this is... Allegedly. Yeah. I have not seen enough proof.

Yes. But this is a... Any. Any. No, but I mean a turning point for the Citadel in terms of like what of the mirrors, right? Yeah. The...

But it's a huge victory for Suvi. It is something that Suvi like... Suvee has had wins in the previous chapters, but those were wins on her personal efforts as a hero. Yeah. This was as an... agent of the Citadel you succeeded. And on the flip side, Ame saved her station. Yeah. Save the station of the world's heart. And I think what's also crazy is in Suvi being the

counselor and advisor to Ame here, you saved your friend. And saving your friend was a direct precedent to the Coven not achieving unanimity in its vote to go to war. That. So, and then with Amme, preventing unanimity for the covenant to go to war with the man in black. And again, like, you know, getting these, like, and getting the wand, getting this wand of covenant, which feels like you are the only other person that knows what injury truly wants for the covenant of elders,

which is for all of you to go away. And you now have the fucking whack-a-mole wand to run out here. And just make witches. I can just make them. Just make them. But you don't want to destroy your coven, Because you could just snap it, and it feels like a lot of Sufi's stress would go away. Just a thing to think of.

Does Ursula? I never pitch Suvi's thoughts to Amet, do I? I don't think so yet. I never like, I don't think not yet. No, and you haven't pitched the thing about the chalises either. Yeah. Which Suvi mentions at the end. Yeah.

But I'll also say, and then for Ursula as well, who's very first steps, Into the world of Umorea, we're about a quest. Finally, you have a ticket to a train and a far off land, and you have a watch that lets you find those in need. And a bridle that lets you hit a ride. The bridle's high-key, my favorite thing. That's so fucking fun. Anybody who's down, it's like, what's up, bro?

What did you think of? What'd you think? Can I get a ride real quick? So could that work on, what else could that bridle? to work on it. It could work on. You said... The man in black.

Well, see? Getty up, cowboy. Shut up! Yeah. I'm on the wrong side of this. Save a spirit horse. Ride a cowboy. Ride a spirit cowboy.

Let me be so clear. If Erzalon was like the cost of me like budding up to the man in black and getting his very cool story as Suey's death, but she'd be like, how hot is he? Okay. I mean, okay. Like, Sue will take one for the team. That's her brother. I'm sure we'll get it to it.

I'm sure that's what Chapter 4 is about. It's just Ursula and Suvi. I don't know. I guess he's pretty tall. Question. So, like, can you kill me? And then he gives you a sword and then you kind of bring me back with lay on hands.

Like, do I have to stay dead? Oh, respect. Because, like, we can get you that. We can get you that sword. Yeah, exactly. If I could just get revivify, then we're all in. Yeah, then we're fine. Let's get that sword.

Okay. We'll get you a bunch of diamonds. Yes. Let's get Toth back. Get him in here. Oh, God. Sweet tough. Such a good boy.

Didn't he, like, turned into a super hot guy. Yeah. Did he know diamonds? That's exactly what I heard. Super hot. Beautiful, beautiful diamond spirit. Wait, can I, can I do a little reveal here in the public? Whoa.

Wait. Oh, because we, in the first episode of the next one, we. Oh, do we reveal some stuff. We reveal where. Oh, we do. Okay, so we'll hold off. Okay. But if you'd like to edit that out because.

Well, or you could do another reveal. I'll do another reveal here on the public for, for all you watching, which was there was a connection between Toff, who was in the bucket at the bottom of the staircase and the missing gem on the horn up at the top. So the horn of the watching fire originally had a diamond set in it that tumbled down the stairs into the bucket of coal and became a little coal. I love him. Oh, it's so good. Beautiful Toff. He's just a little guy.

He like rolled off and went, fucking I'm cold. Everyone's victory was so of their character here because Suvi's victory was so much about diligence, cleverness, and like the work and effort and persistence of wizards. Ame's success, I think the biggest Amme's success, honestly, is coming back to the vote on her life. And the letter from the Antivalist, Hakea putting an arm on Suvi, high in rule thanking Ursula and just walking in and having these three elder witches be like

are we absolutely getting sunned out here are we we we're we're we're we're we've been fucked uh in in eight hours you know um i love that you like had injury say it specifically too i was like this is why you don't give the fucking witch of everyone will like me time to make everyone fucking like her yeah yeah truly promise of the premise Fuck this bitch. Yeah. Yeah, truly, truly, truly. Yeah, really hard to navigate against your friend,

the power of working together in a democratic system. That's a bad, it's a bad look for that to happen. So injury strat is correct. She's like, I know how to solve this. Covenant of one. Covenant of one. Yeah. But the, so that's, yes, so that's a,

and then Ursulaan's victory, I think, very much being about like, big choices, the choice to turn down the man in black, the choice to pursue the antivist, right? Like, I think that there's a mythological, like the fairy knight, like old Arthurian stuff. The scarf toss. The scarf toss. Oh my God. Toss some scarf out the window. There just feels like a connection with Ursula and the idea of making a damn call.

be like, okay, I see walking by the man in Blackside, and I understand that this is a large choice, and my choice is no. And I understand going to the Antibilist and them being like, hey, do you, who am I helping? And you've been like, me, you're helping me. Like, just, I think there's something so profound about that call and the idea of like,

I'm like under my own head of steam now. And I feel like especially chapter two, you know, like Ursulans chapter one was like the like still had like straw and booze on him from J.B. Adelaide and like finding his breath for the first time. And chapter two was sort of like, it's like the great thing of like yes, the journey has begun. And the first step on the journey is doldrums and listlessness. Like, okay, good. You're on your way. But what if you stop and had a drink on your way? Like like, like, you know, pull out of your driveway, hit the road and pull into the first like sort of. like service station.

Don't attack me like this. Like service station, I found my spot. And it feels like at the end of this chapter, it's like, oh, home means I have something to lose, means I have to do something. And it was just beautiful. Gorgeous. The Fox learned nothing and changed not at all. That's not true. The Fox learned tremendous sacrifice and ate helikis.

He did. I don't think nobody asked him to eat. I think he's actually more of a team player. Like, I think that's the thing he learns. Yeah, and he learned about lying. Snakes. Snakes. He learned that snakes in the water.

Oh, you know what he actually did? He did learn when Ami and Suvi had that beautiful embrace that Ursula can see the like tapestry between them. And the fox was like, we shouldn't run. Yeah. Which is the first time the fox has ever said that. The fox is becoming a team player. Like, I think that says like a self-interested little animal who's like, I'm not a pack animal. I'm on my own. I have to do the things that I want to do because those are tied to my survival. My wants are survival needs. And now it's the like, well, no, boss. I want to do things that make you happy. And I'll allow space for the people you care about to have, like, their own things too. And, like, he has different relationships with Ursula and Suvi. And, like, he is growing and changing in, like, the most fun little way. He actually did have.

have a great bonding. So he's had many bonding moments with Ursula through just being like, hey, it's the big guy. And then being a wild thing and talking about Bath. I think he had his first, I think he had his first bonding moment with Suvi in a real way in this chapter where he was like, oh, the thing, where he's like, he's like, he's, like, he's obviously, Ame is his whole world. But he's like, he's like, oh, the boss should learn.

from Suvi to keep secrets. Yeah, absolutely. You have to keep secrets. You have to not tell people. And that is, I always don't think about the fact that the intelligence version of enhanceability is called Fox is coming, where he's literally like, don't be telling people the shit, you know? That's fucking, yeah, like, everyone knows a secret is a good thing to have.

Yeah. So good. Oh, man. So thank you so much to the dear public who is listening to this. We really appreciate you taking the time. And you can hear more deep thoughts and silly thoughts and different segments like Bag it or Taggett, the Horner Corner. No one knows when the Horner Corner is coming. Oh, my God, you never see it coming.

So exciting. We got them. We got them. Great video game. We got a video content. We got a video coming out. I went to say, Xbox, it's coming out.

It's coming out. I went to say great video content coming out, great game content coming out. We have some great classes. We've got Carosgate 3 coming out. Carosgate 3. Caros Gate 3. We've got fresh DLC for everybody. Please be there day one when it drops.

Romanceable Will Gallo! There you go. And what a joy and a delight. We never talked about, okay, sorry, I just realized the one, I know we're exiting. make this a stinger later. Yeah, we all have our one foot out the door and a brief I just realized the one thing I never

asked about this entire arc. Why didn't Ame ask Marara about fucking the man in black? That is such a good question. Damn it! Because I want to know and now we may never get the answer! No! How do

they do? What that arm do! What the arm do! That knee's so high up! Well, I'll tell you where you can find that answer. And it's... Over by the house. Fire side. Yeah, there he is.

All right, everybody. Thank you so much for joining us. I'm Erica Ishii. I'm Abria Aigar. I'm Brennan-Ly-Molligan. And I believe I'm quite certain. I'm Lou Wilson. But who can say?

Good night, everyone. Ah-hoo. Crack-a-crap. A-hoo.