Worst Case Scenario with Abi Clarke and Julia Stenton - Day 20 - Rodney Fox

Episode Date: October 4, 2023

It has finally happened, on this episode Abi is telling Julia and you all about surviving... a shark attack!Rodney Fox survived an attack by a great white in 1963 which to this day is still regarded as one of the worst attacks ever from which someone has lived to tell their story. The attack though didn't make Rodney afraid to go back into the water, it only encouraged him to learn more about the species and pioneer a way that thousands of people all around the world can find themselves safely in the shark's own habitat.Send in your own worst case scenario to [e-mail] and please follow the podcast on Instagram @wcspod for video extras.Theme tune by the brilliant Crizards who can be found on Instagram @crizards Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Get attacked by an angry shark Stuck up a mountain in the dark Pushed off the top of a big landmark Hit by lightning in your local park Caught in a downpour of acid rain Struck by meteor or a train A proton beam passing through your brain Attacked by that angry shark again

Hear how they survive Trappled by a herd of buffalo Chaste with an axe by your new friend Joe Burried alive in a pile of snow I think I saw my future self on the way here. I think I saw me in the future. Hi, welcome to worst case scenario. No.

The podcast where Abby just launched you into what's happening in her life. I saw myself like 30 years, 50 years in the future. I'm so young. Do you say 50 years in the future? So this woman is roughly 85 years old? No, is that what we're? Like 50. I'm not.

Okay. Okay. Right? Okay. So first of all, this is the back view. She's got, she's, first of all, I passed her on her own. I was like, that's a stylish lady. I hope I can look like that when I'm that age, right?

Colorful. Nice clothes. Can I see? Doesn't that look like my kind of outfit? Um. What? Come on. This one?

Colorful, cool patterns, yeah But like if you aged my style up Okay The trainers and sock combination, yes, I'd give you And the jacket The jacket? Yeah I've never seen you wear anything like that

No, let me show you the front view Okay, so Because it's not as, oh actually the front view's bit blurry You do wear bright colours and plastic jewellery Yeah, bright colours It's a fur, it's a fur like bumblebee jacket I would totally want that. Okay.

I love a faux fur coat. You do. That's true. You do. Also, she's on her phone. Classic you. Classic you. That is classic you.

And then the biggest thing of all, just look who she's dating. Doesn't that look like every ex and future boyfriend of mine? Tracksuit bombs, hoodie. Oh, as in what he's wearing. An absolute mess of a man. Yes. She's so stylish. And he looks like he just climbed out.

of a bin. They are mismatched. He is definitely, yes, he's rocking trackies. He's got he's kind of cooler. I'm leveling up. He's smoking. He's smoking. As in not, he's not smoking hot. He is smoking a cigarette. Is he? Bad boy in my future. Okay.

Right. He's also got long hair and a beard. Didn't see that in your future. No, I don't like beards. Yeah. She's very cool. Thank you. Big fan of her. That's future me you're talking about. She's got like sort of wild hair. Oh, she also. also had like really like OTT they look very like yellow sunglasses that's me yeah there's like

cat eyes I love a crazy sunglasses situation yes but she's dating a man that looks like shit and I was like that's me that's me all right we know that they're dating yeah they're holding hands because I saw it fast I was like oh she's so stylish and cool wow I'd love to be like her when I was old when I'm older and then like moments I like walked on and then I stopped it acrossing and then she caught me up and she was suddenly holding hands with this man. I can't believe you took a picture of these people. I was like, this is my future. In the foreground of the picture, you can see Abby's shoulder.

She's like clearly really, really creepily taking a picture. I pretended it was a selfie and I got a picture of them over my shoulder. Hmm. I like that your taste in men doesn't change in the next 30 years. I know. I'm being realistic. That is fun. And I've learned not to try and change them.

She's accepted his track seat bottoms. You don't know how long this has been going on. if you could say something to her what would you say oh good question thank you um i mean where'd get your outfit yeah where's the jacket from it's the main question i also what do you do now like what's your job um um and and and why are we with him why are we those were kind of my three main questions for her yeah yeah what's so good about this guy yeah yeah what's happened Did he always look like this? Yeah.

Yeah. Is he in hiding? Yeah. You know, is it a disguise? Maybe he's super famous. Maybe. How do you feel about that? Ending up with a super famous person.

Yeah, bad. I didn't think you like that. Yeah. What would you say if you saw your future self on the street? Yeah, same. I think I'd be like, Like, what do I do now? God, it's that bad on us?

We're like, correct. Did I ever do live at the Apollo? Do I own my own house? I guess. Nah, I don't care about that. No. I just want to know where her outfits from. And also, what she did to keep her skin looking so good.

She looked great. Hmm. How old are you? Maybe. Yeah. Maybe it's only me in like five years. It's good as though. Maybe I've imagined her too old.

you are putting a lot on the fact that she has grey hair. I am. Yeah, maybe I just went grey early. Okay, first question, did you go grey early? Yeah. How old are you? How old are you? Yeah.

Did you go grey early? First question, is your name, Abby Clark? Nah, that's irrelevant. Let's really nail down that this is you in the future. How do you spell Abby? Because otherwise, yeah, because otherwise you are just accosting a stranger for no good reason. Does time travel exist? That might be a useful question.

Should be like, shut up, I'm here to tell you something important. where's the jacket from? Yeah. Yeah. First thing's first. It's your responsibility. The world is going to end, Abby. So you finally, you finally worked, no, you finally worked out our skincare routine.

What the fuck is there? I really need to, which products? Tell the prime minister. I don't think it's real. I think it's a conspiracy theory made by ginger to make some cream cool again. The world is going to end. What did we do? Which moisturiser did we finally commit to?

And how did you do your hair? Okay. Because your hair is great. You're really pulling off grey and I respect that. We've made grey cool. And then the world evaporates. Because Abby cared too much about her looks. Whoa, what a fucking moral tale.

Whoever chose you is the person who should give the message to save the world back to their younger self. I'm a bad guy and don't look up. You are. I'm Jonah Hill. Your climate change. I'm climate change.

it's finally time it's the moment we've been waiting for oh my god for josephina to shine it's a shark one we're finally doing a shark attack story oh my god when we started this podcast we thought i mean the the bit and surfboard is a big part of the logo i'll be honest we were like it's going to be shark attack central then the bears really came up they did the rear and took over but it's time it's time for the sharks to shine. Finally. Here we go. This is the story of Rodney Fox,

whose attack to this day is regarded as one of the world's worst shark attacks ever to be survived. Oh my God. Amazing. Rodney Fox was born in Adelaide, South Australia, in 1940. That's where I used to live.

Oh, really? Yeah. Not in 1940, but in Adelaide. Who knows? Shout out. Rundlemore. What, what? Sorry, carry on. He's such a local. So, from an early age, his father took him fishing,

and he felt an affinity towards the sea. He'd been staring at the edge of the water, as long as he could remember. Never really know why. How romantic. It's a quote from my Moana, Julia, Jesus. Oh, is it? Get on board.

So, growing up, uh fox's neighbors owned a large concrete water tank where rodney and the neighbor's son taught themselves how to swim uh through his teens rodney spent countless hours in the water tank yeah they learned to swim in the water tank yeah okay just a concrete water tank i guess it was kind of like a little swimming pool yeah what's wrong with that i mean obviously i don't know the specifications of this water tank right just concrete i've just heard that like lots of people like climb into it's quite common that people climb into water tanks and can't get back out because they have a ladder in but not a ladder out what makes a ladder out surely a ladders

but in and out a ladder is a ladder what's a water tank so on the outside so like in big industrial places oh i see there's quite a famous um true crime unsolved mysteries oh the one in the hotel yes they have a water tank on the top of the on the roof yeah and she could climb in but there's no because there's a ladder on the outside but there's no ladder on the inside because you're obviously not supposed to go in and swim in it but you can't pull yourself up no because it's a huge the the drop is massive oh yeah but this might be this is obviously a water tank that is for a house so it's but also isn't it or i read it as just like they'd filled some concrete with water but maybe i'm wrong isn't the purpose of a water tank to supply your house with water i have no idea

I hope that's an important bit in this water tank. That's all I'm worried about. I'm just trying to give you some back. People pee in the sea. It's just a realistic environment training situation. You don't wash yourself with seawater. We all accidentally drink seawater, Julia. Do we?

Yeah. Okay. Anyway. Sorry, so he's learned to swim in his most tank. All I can think about is that the Sims can't get out of swimming pools now. And I'm like, maybe they were water tanks all along. Yeah. So anyway. Take the ladder out of anything. It's a water tank.

Yeah. So through his teens, Rodney, he leveled up to the ocean. He spent countless hours spearfishing. It's really the water tank. It wasn't that important. I regret telling you. He spent countless hours spear fishing, bringing home fresh catches of fish and lobsters for his family. And in 1962, he became the South Australian Spear Fishing Champion. Wow. In 1963, the next year, he married the love of his life, Kay. And four months later, it was time to defend his state championship title. Okay. So the spear fishing championship was held at Aldinga Beach. Did I get that right?

I know it, yeah. I can actually check with you. South of Adelaide on December 8th, 1963. Robin Williams was only 12, so he wasn't up to much. Rodney, however. something fun yeah he's probably like on a swing or something like working on some characters oh you think yeah sure it's really annoying his parents yeah um um he's spearfished for about four hours um and the then 23 year old life insurance salesman which i find ironic he's a life insurance life insurance um was on what he called

a bit of a hunter gatherer streak he's doing very well but he still hadn't found the fish he needed right he still didn't found how do you judge it i wonder i think it its biggest fish. Oh, okay. Okay. So he's still... So he's doing well, but not... But he still found a real big one. Yeah. So he swam out deeper than the rest of the pack to about 60 feet. As he dove down, he spotted a good one. He raised his spear gun and he was about to shoot when he felt a huge thump and crash to his side. Despite making no sense to his environment, Rodney thought he'd been hit by a train. God. He thought he'd been hit by a train, but then he kind of remembered he was underwater. Yeah. So he was like... Who put this here?

Yeah. Like, whoa. It's just the Euro tunnel. Um, no, then he was like perhaps a submarine. Like, he felt like he'd been hit by the machine. Wow. But then he saw the teeth. Oh, God. Turns out, Rodney wasn't the only hunter out in the water that day. Oh, here she is. Here she is. storytelling. So, yeah, he had just been hit by a great white shark. Knocking the gun out of his hand, the snorkel mask off his face, he was hurtling through the water in its mouth. The shark bites down with crushing force as he pounds on it and the water turns bright red. He knew instinctively that the shark's eyes were the most vulnerable,

and so he grappled around to try and find them and attempted to gouge at them. Amazingly, it seemed to stop and let him go. But as he fell out of its mouth, he pushed out of the shark with his arm to like push it away and his hand disappeared into the shark's mouth. Oh, God. Ripping the underside of his arm on the way in.

And as it closed its jaws, he pulled it out, ripping and breaking. Oh, God. Ripping and breaking. all the tendons in his hand. To this day, he still has part of one of the shark's teeth

embedded in his wrist. No. Yeah. That's so cool. But before it could buy him again, he grabbed the shark in a bear hug well behind the jaws and held on tight so it couldn't bite him.

Wait, sorry, so he's out of the shark now. So he pulled his hand out of the mouth. The body's out. Broke all the tendons, ripped all the tendons in his hand. He hasn't got him in any way. No. So the shark had got him on his, I think, left side.

Yeah. He gouged at the eyes. The shark let go. He tried to push the shark. Yeah. Hand went inside the mouth. Yeah. As the jaws were closing, he pulls the hand out.

He then grabs the shark in a bear hug, so it can't bite him. Yeah. Then he realizes that he's holding his breath because it was snorkeling. He was snorkeling about 50 feet under the water, and he's out there. Fuck. so knowing that he would definitely drown if he continues holding on he has no choice he lets go

and starts. Why is he holding on? So that it can't bite, like he's bare hugging behind the jaws so he's like behind him. Yeah. Kind of like if you were like, have you seen that video where the guy, the lady gets bitten by the alligator in the zoo and the guy has to come in and get on the alligator's back? Right, I'm with you.

He's kind of doing that with the shark. But he's out of breath. He's going to drown. So he lets go and he starts swimming back to the surface right yeah he breaks the surface and he's taking a few huge breaths when he looks down through the bright red water and sees a huge shark head coming up towards him oh my god that's my nightmare that's awful whenever i'm in the sea or water yeah that's what i yeah imagine happening is like i feel like that's what people always say yeah yeah yeah yeah i'm coming up towards you that's what

you see oh my god even the thought of it even the arm goes going it in and out, like, do you know what de-gloving is? No, that I don't like the sound of it. So, just another blue waffle, I know so, I'm feeling lucky. Sounds sexual. It does, doesn't it? Is it, are you just saying, are you just talking about a circumcision? No.

When I was in Adelaide, I knew a guy who, he was, uh, what's it called? water skiing, I was going to say, skiing on water. He was water skiing, that one. And his friends were in the boat driving and he had wrapped the cord, rope, round his arm. And then they took off. No, no, no, no, no. And so then he had to, like, try and desperately get the road off of his...

Why did he wrapped it around his arm? I think it was, I don't know, it must have been to, like, I don't know. keep the thing tied. Like, he must have been coming in. I don't know. I don't know what the, I can't remember what the circumstances were.

Anyway, he had it wrapped around his arm. They took off, obviously. The rope then starts to tighten. He does his best to like get the rope completely off his arm. He gets it all the way off apart from his thumb. It's wrapped around his thumb. And then it tightened on his thumb

and it de-gloved his thumb. So it took off the outer casing of the thumb. and so all that you could see was like his bone and now he has like his thumb stops at the knuckle and there's like skin round it now and stuff but like wait he amputated it essentially

so he took off the end bit and then all the sco but de-gloving is when you take off that's why they say like don't wear rings if you're like climbing stuff because like if your ring gets caught then it will take off the the flesh and the the juicy bit of your finger and just leave the bone.

But does he still have the bone sticking out? No, so now it goes up to his knuckle and then there's skin around it. I think that he had skin grafts maybe. Right. And he did, in fact he did. And it's so it's just like a nub. Can you say nub? It's like, it's just.

Like Chandler's tone, friends. Mm. Yeah, it's up to the knuckle. So he's got no, uh, he can't do that. I'm, I'm wiggling my thumb for those listening. Yeah, she's like pressing a button. With my thumb. With a thumb. Yeah.

But nice to not lose the thumb completely. Didn't lose the thumb completely. Can still like, grab things. But just seeing, looking down and seeing your hand with just a bone. Holy fucking God. One of the, yeah. Yep. Anyway, sorry.

He was also from Adelaide. There you go. Why know where I'm not going? Okay. so the shark has followed him up he swum up just imagine like blood water I don't want to

shark face coming at you no no no no no no that's the stuff of nightmares yeah he hadn't really learned from the hand incident he kicks out with his foot same thing but luckily no okay

shark's not after him All good. Instead, it goes for the float that he is towing that contains all the fish he's caught that day. Oh, have it. Have it. Enjoy. No wonder the shark is fucking chasing you. You're towing. Yeah. A banquet. A buffet. Yeah. It's the pizza hot buffeting. Yeah. You've got a happy meal behind you. So amazing. Shark takes off with the float. Swims back down into the depths. Ideal, fine. Unfortunately, Rodney's still attached to the float. Oh, okay.

Oh no. Yeah. So it drags him down. So Shark takes off into the depth. Has he reached the surface? Yeah, so he reached the surface. He has taken a breath. He looked down.

Sharks coming back up at him. Fuck, fuck, fuck. Oh, it's got the float. Sick. Buy Shark. Oh shit. Looney tunes. Still attached.

If you could break the tether, that would be lovely. Yeah. So the rope goes taut and he is pulled back underwater with it. Yeah. Puff of smoke at the surface. Yeah. The shark has taken off quickly and dives 40 feet beneath the surface, which is about a three-story building.

That's too far for a human. And very, very quickly. He tries to find the quick release on his belt. He's like feeling around for it, but you can't find it and he gets to the end of the belt and he knows he has no breath left. He's going to have to, like I was watching, he was like, I just, I was at the point where I had to go, do you know what I mean? And like, I was just going to gasp in water. Oh my God. But at that moment, the line snaps. A few.

Yeah, few, but he's still 40 feet under the water. So he fights his way back up to the surface, despite his horrific injuries. Yeah. Meanwhile, a boat has come to investigate the bright red water. Huh, what's going on over there? Um, he breaks the surface. They put, pull him in and his injuries are so severe. All the ribs on his left side have been shattered. His lungs are ripped open. His diaphragm was punctured. His lungs are ripped open?

Yeah. How has he held his breath at all then? Well, this is now last episode. But as we learnt, you can go with one lung. And I think this was all on his left side. Oh, one lung is gone. Okay, yeah. Right.

So all the ribs are broken, lung ripped open, diaphragm punctured, leaving his spleen up. uncovered. You could see his screen. His scapula, aka shoulder blade, was pierced and the main artery from his heart was left exposed. How do you survive this? Well, how can you have an exposed artery? Yeah. To this day, his attack is regarded as one of the world's worst shark attacks to ever be survived and his story of the attack and escape has been published many times in total 462 stitches were required to his chest right hand and arm so he survived now time to start recovery yeah his rehab centered on overcoming his fear getting fit and eventually returning to

the sea um this is always the way amazing with these stories yeah so uh he first returned to strengthen and test his badly pierced lung and chest he went free diving in the clear freshwater sinkholes in mount gambia um and exactly one year after his attack he entered the australian spear fishing championships in victoria where he top scored in three of four events Wow Despite being Did he leave his little basket on the side? I don't know how you go back

Leave the fish on the side You're literally towing Yeah, shark food Yeah But it is despite being fit and healthy He was still fearful Of another shark attack No shit

There was a popular saying in those days Sharks are man eaters The best shark is a dead shark and while in hospital Rodney had received a letter from famous game fisherman, Alth Dean, who still holds the world record for the biggest fish caught on rod and line, which was a great white weighing in at 1,208 kilograms. What? He caught that on rod and line. Yeah.

In his letter, Alf wrote, if you had seen what I've seen, you would hang up your dive gear and never go in the water again. Yeah. So, Rodney contacts Alf. Also, Rodney's been through a fucking shark attack. Yeah. I feel like that's like... I think I...

Like, if you've seen the shit, I see... Exactly. If you've had your hand ripped apart and your body broken in every possible way... Honestly, do you want to see the picture of his injury? I don't think I do, I'll be honest. I think you do, though. Okay.

Okay, hang on. You can also see these pictures at WCSPod on Instagram. Here we go. It's so crazy. That's so rich, isn't it? All right, Alf. Rain it in. That's, that is horrible.

Yeah. It's the back of his arm. And he's like split open. All of his back. Like coming around to his tummy. And that was the first injury. Look how happy he is. Is that him?

Yeah, that's him. He's absolutely thrilled. But like, so that in the first picture you can see, it's open. It's open. You can see into his body. It's as if he's halfway through surgery. But he swam like that. Do you know what I mean?

That was the first injury. So everything else I said, he was doing with that. I can't believe he survived that. Rodney contacts Alf. Alf agrees to show Rodney how he attracted and caught his record sharks. But at the end of the trip... Why? Why? Why does he want to know? Um, I guess just...

Now he wants... Curiosity, interest. Yeah. I just feel like if I hadn't encountered a great white shark, I'd never want to see one ever again. Yeah, but this guy's catching and killing sharks. Oh, you think now Rodney's got a vendetta? Well, I think maybe he wanted to see how you beat the shark.

Yeah. But the shark is the ultimate boss. But rather than being thrilled by the five dead great whites, Rodney regarded their catching and killing as quite senseless. Yeah. So after the trip, he kind of, didn't feel great about the killing of sharks. And instead, he was,

he was just fascinated by the prehistoric creatures. Because also, if you think, like, he's in their spear fishing, he doesn't need those fish. Like, we, the reason sharks are coming closer to land anyway is because there are no fish left in the sea. That shark technically did nothing wrong in that situation. Yeah.

So to just kill them for a laugh, like Alf is doing. Yeah. Seem, I can see why Rodney's come away from that being like, so Rodney's actually come away being like, that doesn't feel good. Yeah. And instead he came away

feeling like they were being portrayed more fearsomely than they actually were. Oh, right. He said, My shark attack occurred in a period when nobody really knew anything much about sharks at all. He recalled that in the hospital when people came and visited him

and also like it was really played up in the newspapers it was big news he said he realised that there was a real fear and hatred towards them and his story frightened so many people out of the water that he actually felt a bit like it was his job to help people get back into it and enjoy the surf and diving

and beautiful water the sea offered he said that like everybody wanted to go out and kill the sharks but all he wanted to do was learn more about them. Okay. So for a decade, after recovering from his attack, Rodney made his living as a professional abalone diver pioneering the industry in Australia.

They're like a little like kind of like sea snail thing. Oh. Yeah. As in he's diving for them. Yeah. So he kind of continued as a diver. He's bringing them back up. In the waters that he was attacked in.

That's amazing, isn't it? Crazy. And yeah, apparently he pioneered the industry. Wow. But it was a visit to Adelaide. zoo that inspired what Rodney was set to do for the rest of his life. Okay. So, he, um, I don't know exactly when this happened.

I read in one article, this was kind of six months after. Right. But it could have been longer. Yeah. But he, his wife. Yeah. Yeah. But that seems too soon having read everything else about him.

Yeah. He squeezed a lot in. And it only said in one article, so I don't really trust them. Oh, okay. But at some point, he, his wife Kay, and their small niece went to the zoo. And they were looking at the caged lions when Rodney thought, what if we... Let them out. Open up those cages, maybe.

Let's have them. I've survived one man eating animal. Give me another apex predator. No. He's got a taste for it now. He thought, looking at these lines behind bars, he thought, well, what if we reverse the rolls? He was like, man... Rodney made a human zoo.

Basically. Wow. So, man eating ferocious animals have always existed. Oh, you just started lobbing children over the... No, no, no, no. He put humans in cages. Oh, wow. He was like, hey, lions, come look at her.

Family lions came out with picnics. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Start taunting the... Yeah, the lionesses took their cubs. Yeah, nice. A little treasure hunts around the zoo. It's about time. Like, what would be the enclosures, though?

Like, what would be the different breeds of human? Exactly. Here's the football enclosure. Like the goths. The got to be in the dark. They've got to be in like... They're in like the back enclosure. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Like the reptile. The reptile. Yeah, they've got to be temperature controlled. Yeah, they wear a lot of layers. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, you have to really look for them. Yeah. And they're like shows.

We could still do stand up. yes but we just have to make it more relatable to like the animal kingdom be like gras don't you hate it when like men kill the other men just to fuck you like oh yeah relatable not far off your actual relational humor oh my god I just hate it when like all all the men fight over me oh my god the stand-up enclosure would be insufferable it would be so annoying just a bunch of narcissists behind a fucking perspex bit of glass god i got a hunt gather and raise the kids oh god i just want to sit home and eat a human steak once in a while am i right ladies i've never felt more passionate about abolishing zoos i actually think female stand-up would would

be more popular in a zoo in a zoo for lions yeah because there's a only like one man per pride right that you're not going to gather money much audience there's way more women there's way more women to perform to yeah finally period humus in so his theory is that kind of like man eating ferocious animals like lions have always existed right yeah but we've just been able to put most of them behind bars like zoos. The fear of sharks comes from not knowing where they are. Yeah, no bars in the sea. No. So he was like, what if we put humans inside something like a lion cage and place them underwater? Did he invent the shark? He invented. He invented the shark. He invented the shark cage. Wow. He thought he could

build a steel cage, lower it over the side of a boat and get in the cage. to safely view the great whites. And that has gone seamlessly. He could see for himself if they deserved their vicious reputation. Right, did you just ask of Shark Cage? Have you not seen all of those videos where the Shark Cage means absolutely that...

Yeah, well, I've done some research. First of all, there has never once been a fatality from a shark cage. Second of all, the ones going wrong, the ones going wrong are due to poorly disdemeanor signed cages. Oh, so now the, the, he's

paving his tools, is he? Well, no, so it's never happened. I don't think it's happened in Australia. Okay. And basically, I'll get to it, actually. Okay. We'll come back to that. Would you do that?

What? Shark cage? Yeah. Absolutely not. Yeah. But, uh, why would you not do it? I just, actually, I'll be honest. I'll be honest.

I'll be honest. I was like 100% no. and then I did all this research last night and I did end the night saying to my flatmates shall I like do a shark coach I was like shall I She went to go to Australia It was like my it was my housemate's like boyfriend's dream

Like that's what he wants to do He's obsessed with sharks Wow So I was like Shall we go together? Are we doing that? Where's the closest place you could do? But I'd only trust this guy

Um It's just like he makes it sound quite good he look let's get through it but okay it sounds kind of cool okay his idea he's like i'm gonna make a steel cage put in the water and i'm gonna watch them safely and then i'm gonna decide if they really deserve i'm gonna i'm gonna decide for myself what i think about sharks okay but also like sharks i feel like you don't need to do that in order to know that sharks aren't acting maliciously no but this was like in a time of creatures that are coming out to get like like they didn't know about sharks at this point this is what i mean so he was saying like at his time at the time of

his attack really little was known about sharks right they were just like feared but he didn't not much research had been done into them yeah so he was like if i build a cage i can observe them yeah like you can at the zoo yeah and actually learn a little bit more about them and see how scary they really are so he drew at plans and had the two-man cage built he organized a new tuna bone which the owners were keen to be involved. Also, two men is not enough. Two person is not enough. I'd want like a bus size.

Like I want a, I want a shark tank where it's not just me and another person. Can you imagine me and you in a shark cage? I think we should make it happen. Fuck that. I think we should do it. There would be like a... There's been zero fatalities. Yes, which means that they're Jew one.

I don't know. We, I've done that, like, we've looked at all the sports that have had fatalities. We've looked at all the adventure sports. Like, everything has a fatality. True. This one doesn't. This is the safest one we've researched so far. Okay, yeah, true.

But I just think two people. I would want the other person to be an expert, not you. Like, all right, we'll go one at a time. Okay. Anyway. I want a very strong person who can swim really well and drag me up should we need to. You're only going over the side of the boat, though. Aquaman. I want Acro, I want Jason Momoa.

I will go down with Jason Mamoa. I feel like Jason Mamoa would attract more enemies because he is literally The King of the Sea The King of the Sea like I don't think sharks are the least do you worry I would have thought sharks would have been on his side The freaking crackens come in your way if you're there with that one man I don't want to I don't want to see celeb

Imagine that video I want a nobody I don't want them to even notice I'm there Okay fair yeah I want like Squidward Actually do you know who I want I want Alf Because apparently he knows how to take down sharks should it come your way No, I think else's very old slash maybe even dead. Oh, okay. Well, we're not doing this anyway, so it's fine.

Okay. I think we should. I've got to have been sold it. I can't believe you're advocating for this. I know. I'm freaking, I'm terrified. I'm terrified at the sea and I'm terrified of sharks. But Rodney's made it feel safe.

And you're terrified of Australia in general. That's so true. I'm so scared of Australia. You're scared of the toilets in Australia. Yeah. And now she's diving with sharks. But they're not sneaking up on you, you, you know. know they absolutely are yes they absolutely are like that's that's rodney's whole point you know where they

are and you're look you're not letting me get sorry they haven't even got in the cage yeah okay they're in okay stop hating i'm not i'm not i'm not i'm just i'm just baffled by your like this the fact that you are so on board with this has really thrown me it's so me but that's how powerful rodney is okay go tell me tell me tell me so he's made the he's made the cage He's made the cage. He's... He wants to learn. He's got a new tuna boat.

The owners are on board. They're like, yeah, use our tuna boat. He's found sponsors. And for the first ever cage diving expedition, he invited two other Great White Shark attack victims. Fuck off. The three of them are in the... They're three of them.

No, no, they're on the boat. They're not all getting in the cage at the same time. Sure, just retortmatize them. And he also invited his friend and fellow diver Ron Taylor to film the expedition. Get it on film. In partnership with him. Get the second attack on film, for sure.

What's the point if you're not filming? Yeah. So this was the first. He's invited. Previous people who've been attacked by shots. I think they will also spear fishermen. Oh, okay, okay, okay. I did have their names, but I was like, let's not get into more attacks because they could be

stories for another day. Sure. Okay. So I've just, I've just named them. Two other shark attack victims. Right, okay. Stories for another day. Yeah.

And his friend, who he met at a competition, Ron Taylor. Yeah. He's like, do you want to come and see me potentially get attacked again by a shark? No, like, do you want to get in with me? Do you want to get in with me and film? Do you want to get, do you want to potentially be attacked by a shot? Yeah, okay, cool. Bring your camera.

So, this was the first time Great White Sharks had ever been filmed underwater. And it was a turning point in Rodney's life. What year is this? Sorry. Uh, I don't know exactly. Okay. Because like I said, I don't know exactly how much later it was after he was attacked. What year was the attack?

But he was attacked in 1963. Oh, okay. Right. Yeah. This is what I'm trying to say. People don't know much of sharks. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Not much research has been done.

No one's ever filmed them before. Okay. It's the first time Great White Sharks have ever been filmed underwater and it's a turning point in his life. He discovered Great Whites were not crazy man eaters. Mm-hmm. Just stealing your boyfriend. Sure. is my man either um yeah but fascinatingly cautious creatures oh they preferred the bait not the man

in the cage okay so like when you cage dive you put some bait in yeah you got to attract them somehow they couldn't care less about the guy in the cage yeah they were just interested in the bait much like when he got attacked just they just wanted it yeah um so um he pioneered the world's first shark cage dive operation more as a hobby than anything else um but his hobby soon turned into a profession after clips of the great whites he and ron shot landed on the desk of a young director by the name of stephen oh my god yeah little did fox know that his underwater footage of great white is that what they used for jaws off the coast of South Australia would go on to scare the bathing suits

of movie audiences all over the world. Oh my God. And his invention of the shark cage would be featured and the topic of conversation in one scene when it's mocked by the character, Quint. Wow. So he says he had mixed feelings about participating in Jaws. Yeah, I was going to say famously the film

that stopped people from going back into the water. So he had mixed feelings about participating Jaws. as it was a film that saw a whole generation find a new fear of the ocean kind of the like anti what he was trying to do yeah um and he didn't tell people at first he didn't tell people for a while that he'd worked on it um because he didn't want to frighten them his his intention was to get people to come see the sharks and then it became a huge hit and he was like actually i had quite a quite a big well no it was because jaws may have ironically been instrumental in fueling the world's fascination with the Apex Predator.

Okay. And Great Whites specifically. And in 1976, shortly after the film was released, Rodney received a request from an American dive travel company wanting to bring their American clients on a Great White Shark expedition. He happily obliged,

and it became the world's first shark cage diving tour and thus shark eco-tour tourism was born. So Jaws served as like an advert for him. Yeah. So it's actually probably responsible for most of the research on sharks and Great Whites in particular and through the movie a lot of conservationists or and, sorry, um, shark huggers as they call them, found their way to Rodney. Wow. He said that the fear was already there. Yeah. So he didn't feel as bad about the fear, or the film created because the fear

he said is a natural fear our ancestors had but now everyone actually wants to dive with the sharks and protect the sharks which is something

he never thought would happen there was suddenly a big interest in sharks yeah yeah and then he said the more you learn about them the less frightened you become and that's you are proof of that

I'm kind of proof of that I mean I still don't want to be free in the water with them so for example in jaws the character quint says the thing about a shark it's got lifeless eyes black eyes like a doll's eyes when it comes at you it doesn't seem to be living until he bites you and those black eyes roll over white and that's my exact fear like we're saying when the shark comes up and the black eyes yeah yeah that's literally my fear but apparently on these expeditions some people are lucky enough to have an eyeball encounter I don't know if luck is the right word because that sounds terrifying but they have an eyeball encounter there's a little sparkle in the eye is that what they see that it's actually a structured eye with a pupil oh it's not just black um so it's not the dead black eye of myth it says here right it does actually have like a pupil and everything yeah and that makes all the difference does it then immediately it's not terrifying

no but i'm just saying that's an example of like if you actually yeah yeah that's not actually true that their eyes are just black. Right. Rodney has now led over 100 expeditions to film and study Great White Sharks and is considered a world authority of the Great White. He's really made the Shark Attack work for him.

Right. He is a great reputation as an expedition leader and producer of shark documentaries and is estimated that Rodney has been involved in some way with 90% of all prominent white shark images taken worldwide in the

is that because he invented the the shark cage and that's how people can get those images well he also has a company called fox great white shark expeditions oh okay so a lot of people will go to him yeah to go underwater and film um or take pictures wow and rodney that's yeah like so it says here he's worked with disney universal iMac's national geographic yeah and many many more he's whined and dined with film stars and princes and even found himself in a cage with Miss Universe Oh, very nice Rodney That was a good day for Rodney

He continued to run tours until 1999 By this time his son Andrew Had become an integral part of the operation Andrew is a biological scientist A world-renowned underwater photographer And like his dad a highly regarded advocate Of the Great White Shark And he still operates Fox Great White Shark

Fox Great White Shark expeditions out of Port Lincoln, South Australia, offering tours on their diving boat to the Neptune Islands. Wow. So you can still go. Andrew runs it now. And today South Australia remains the global home of Great White Shark cage diving. In 2002, Fox, Andrew and Dr Rachel Robbins formed the Fox Shark Research Foundation, which helps instill an appreciation and understanding of Great Whites through research and education and also where they do their dives they have like regular sharks

that come back. Oh, that's nice. And like people who dive get to know them. There was like one one whereas he's like called old something and he's like a fan favorite. Old Johnny recently arrived for the seventh season in a row.

Oh, Johnny doesn't sound great. Accompanied by some giant females. I bet you. Oh, Johnny's always accompanied by some females. And a Johnny. Wow. he's not getting any of them pregnant um well he might be if he's old yeah actually an out of date you don't want an old johnny never trust an old johnny um he's about four and a half meters

which is about as big as they grow despite all the myths about seven meter sharks andrew says he says he's a real star he stays around the boat and is as curious about the people as they are of him he doesn't act aggressively but looks up at you occasionally and visits the divers down in the bottom cage moving close to the cage and he's a regular that people just fall in love with so this is the other thing

there also like one of the only places if you're like an experienced diver those people just stay at the boat but you can do ocean floor cages oh my god which that's too far from me like you know that film

where it snaps and they go down to the floor and then their only way is to like get out and swim up no that was my nightmare about cage oh my god would you do I'm guessing you haven't so apologies if you have

but like would you do diving like with a tank and stuff no yeah yeah do you remember that story of the of the husband and wife yeah yeah how are you brink you must have to learn how to you must have a tank

though right no so a lot of the ones that are like just under the surface they have like a air tube that they just put in their mouth that's from the boat because they're like not deep. That's even more terrifying.

That's even more, that's even worse. You've made it worse. Why is that worse? Because you don't have a, that's a tube, just an air tube. No, as in it's pumping air. Yeah, oh yeah. But like the tank's on the boat. Yeah, I don't like that.

I don't like that at all. But it just shows that you're not even like deep underwater. Okay, so say the air tube fails. Yeah. Or it fills with water or whatever. It pops out of your mouth. Well, you can just pop up. You can, okay, so there is an air, so the tank, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the,

cage, there is air at the top of the cage. It's not fully suburb. I don't know that for sure these, but I think so, because they're literally just putting it over the side of the boat. Yeah, I think I'd insist on that. If I were... I think so, because I also, when I was doing this research, found out about a YouTube family

who took their, like, eight-year-old and five-year-old, and everyone freaked out in the comic. Not to this company. I don't think they let five-year-olds do it. Good. And, like, the five-year-old had... the like just like the air tube they didn't I think you can have your own tank if maybe you're an adult but the kids were just using the little thingy yeah there's a horrific photo which is obviously

they're like um thumbnail the clickbait sure where like the five-year-old's leg is like just out the cage because he's so small and the sharks like swimming towards it but they were absolutely fine and it was all like should you let anyone do it that young yeah whatever no no you shouldn't so Andrew does say sharks can swim into poorly designed cages but actually like I said they don't attack the humans is actually awful for the sharks because they get trapped and they can die like the shark can die not the human yeah and so he commented on two of like the famous videos online

of when sharks go get in he said the reason why that shark got captured in the cage is that the design of the cage had a lot of vert bars um he said sharks aren't actually looking to get in and bite people sometimes they just swim in and get trapped um also we shouldn't be there yeah like we shouldn't be and he said so their cages tend to have a lot fewer gaps and also a lot of mesh um and like I said there's never been a fatality in history I would definitely want some match and there was another one where like it was the fault of the guy controlling the chum because you shouldn't put if the shark is right by the

cage you shouldn't be putting like chum in because what happens is basically the shark's going for the chum yeah it's not interested in you at all yeah but if it's too close to the cage it can't stop in time so that's what it is like the sharks breaks don't work so it drives straight into the cage it's not going for the humans so all this is what I mean those videos aren't about the sharks yeah yeah it's about the people running the tours they've mismanaged it right yeah it's either the fault of the like chum guy and you need a good and the design of the cages yeah yeah um but when that's happened it's only been the shark that's died never the human also a fun thing i found out from andrew is like his first he first saw

sharks when he was seven and his dad took him out on an expedition yeah um and he said it was about 930 at night he woke me up to look over the side of the boat and a really big white shark was spy hopping and they were like what's spy hopping and he said the great white is one of the only few sharks that puts its head above the water to get a look at you. It was a powerful first encounter. So they just like pop up. Which is like kind of terrifying, but also like really funny.

It pops up out the water. They're just kind of nosy, yeah. They're just like, and then they just get back down. Wow. Okay. In 2009, Fox was nominated for the 2010 Indianapolis Prize, the world's largest individual monetary award for animal species conservation.

and he and his wife Kay maintain a museum called the Rodney Fox Shark Museum in Mile End, South Australia, another place to visit, which features his private collection of displays and items from a lifetime of filmmaking and research on the ocean. His passion for the Great White continues to this day, and he is a key speaker at many international conservation and diving events, and he gives motivational talks at schools and organizations around the world. he wrote an autobiography called Sharks the Sea and Me and he also won an award for his children's book Shark Man which I have now ordered for my nephew because my nephew is obsessed he's such a toxic man he's obsessed with like any animal that can hurt you like anything with big teeth

yeah it's like T-Rexes sharks, alligators he's obsessed so Rodney may be 83 now but he has no plans to hang up his wetsuit for good he spent nearly every moment of his adult life not only facing his fears but forcing others to come to terms with theirs but fox says to finish us off he says when i look back at photos of my attack i think to myself i must have been left on this earth to do something really important i must have been left here for some special reason i've been waiting to be pointed in the right direction to figure out what that reason is but all i've ever seemed to do

is talk about sharks and that is the story of shark attack survivor and creator of the shark cage Rodney Fox. Amazing. Isn't that such a good story? What a guy. I guess it's kind of obvious what to put in the survival kit. A belt that releases.

Okay. No? I mean, I was going to go shark cage. Oh, shark cage. Oh, yeah. Yeah, but he was spear fishing. A shark cage would have done him no good in that scenario. Though, when I was watching one of these videos,

about him they had like a little montage of like clips with no talking they had a little what a little montage yeah um a little makeover montage yeah you should have seen the show up they made the shark look so friendly let me tell you um really make it made a terrible unibrow before image um no but they there was this one video I saw and I couldn't find this anywhere else I don't know but there was a guy that was like diving as in like moving and like fishing on the sea floor and he had like kind of a personal cage around him okay and I was like is that a thing I mean it must I couldn't find exactly what that was called or what it was but like it was like it was like a built kind of like the choky yeah like kind of like a little like coffin but like not closed like just

steel bars yeah that meant I guess nothing can kind of come in and bite around him right I was like that's genius yeah I only saw like a short clip of it in this montage so I don't really know what that but like maybe though I guess that was really Can you spear fish in that though? I don't know I was thinking something that could have more easily

like you know on a lanyard it has those little the way a lanyard attaches so you can just pull it off you don't have to like so you can't get strangled by a lanyard I was thinking something like that for the fish

yeah but don't we usually use something that's actually been in the story not just like something they could have had because then I feel like everything Okay. Would just be mobile phone. So what, how did he survive them? By gouging the eyes.

He, he gouged the eyes. And then he bear hugged it. He bare hugged it. He swam up. Fish? I guess a cage full of fish. Yeah.

Pretty good distraction technique. Basket full of fish. Basket full of fish. That can't hurt. It's probably like a basket full of fish or if you want to. The survival toolkit is about to get a very smelly. Or if you want to honour his creation A shark

Okay But I'm just saying He didn't have the shark cage at the time That's not how he survived I'm happy with he I mean Shark Cage More useful maybe

They're very big Would it fit in the bag Basket full of fish That keeps you going for a while Yeah I think basket of fish Alright A basket full of fish

Okay Going in the survival toolkit That was great But thanks for the cage as well, Rodney. Yeah. You know this thing recently on social media where people are asking... Why did you say social media? Like, you've only just found out about it this week.

Because I have only just found out about it this week. Where women are asking their boyfriends, or people are asking their boyfriends, how often do you think about the Roman Empire? Yes, I have seen this. Apparently the female equivalent is, how often do you think about Titanic? I was like, oh God. And then so when somebody said, when I saw that it was like the female equivalent is, How often do you think about Titanic?

I was like, oh, like, all the time. All the time. And then I was at a gig on Tuesday, and I said to them, we were talking about it, and I was like, how often do you think about the Roman Empire? And literally every single man on the, on the bill was like, oh, like, multiple times a month. That's mad.

Neil, how often do you think about the Roman Empire? Probably a few times a week. Shut up! Shut up! What about it? Just the... the kind of bravery of it all just to see a scale of how you control that much like land and people and the infrastructure the amazing it's still strange yeah road roads i think about roads a lot

yeah men just haven't changed cars carts roads Wheel Yeah The arts Oh Yeah yeah It's still weird though It's still for men

It's still what they want Whereas for us it's still like What terrible thing could happen to us Yeah definitely Definitely It's like how can we wear a nice dress But also be in absolute peril Like the Titanic

Well actually Women did all right I was gonna say But Titanic is the only actually Disaster death Maybe that's why we think about Titanic so much Is because we were prioritised In the

Once in our lives. But the Roman Empire is still men are like, back when it was good. Yeah, we really had it nailed. That's mad to me. Isn't that amazing? Like, it's... What do you think?

Lyle drop, how much do you think of the Roman Empire? He's thinking about it right now. He's dreaming of it, yeah. Sweet dreams. Tell us a story. And make it clickable because he's adorable. Oh my God. Okay.

We're ready. Abby and Julia and Laudrop. Loudrop is here. Loudrop is present on my lap. Back in 2017, I was on a project for work in Mozambique. Bragg. Very cool.

I went... I just... Sorry, Laudra wanted to respond as well. I want to give you a bit of backstory as I feel this story has a few moments where I survived, but the worst was by far the last day. Okay.

When we arrived in Mozambique, after a 28-hour journey, Fuck that. We were held at gunpoint. What? By some angry security guards, all shouting at me and my then-boyfriend in Portuguese. In brackets, he's now an ex, partly due to this story.

Interesting. They emptied all of our bags, including my underwear, and made me explain every item in my backpack. It was like that scene from Bridget Jones, minus the drugs. Just like, and these. The elastic's really stretched out. Why'd you still have these? Yeah.

There's a hole in this one. Come on. I haven't got round to it. Yeah. These are the emergency ones. They seem to all be emergency ones. Bearing in mind, I speak no Portuguese. And my phrase book was worse than useless.

I had nothing in my bag. Nothing in the phrase book being like. For emergency. It's a BDSM thing. He has a very specific gink. Uh, my Facebook was worse than useless. I had nothing in my bag that I shouldn't have, but we eventually paid a $50 bribe to get the hell out of there.

And I was absolutely traumatized. That's the thing. So they can just like stop you and you have to pay them 50 quid. Yeah. To, I think that is quite common. Interesting. Yeah. Obviously not in my experience.

I would never do this, but. You have experienced? Loudon's like oh yeah yeah yeah always have bribe money always have bribe money in your shoe absolutely traumatised my boyfriend at the time i love that they keep saying at the time we get it it's a it's a it's a ninja julia it's the theme of the podcast my boyfriend at the time we're all alone couldn't seem to understand why i was so upset and insisted we go for a why why why you so upset you've had a gun in your face you've had your pants sifted through by You're so damn sensitive.

Come on. Cheer up. Insisted we go for a walk after we'd settled in the hotel. This was obviously a terrible idea. Red flag. Thanks for it. They've actually written red flag in capital. I'd try, but I think I'd drop him.

Yeah, no doubt. We were accosted by police again, both wielding guns and telling us to hand over our passports. I held on to my. with a vice grip, refused and walked her straight back to the hotel. My then boyfriend, ha ha ha ha ha.

Am I right, Loudrop? Loudrop's thinking suicidal. Loudrop's like ditch this guy. Leave him in Mozambique. Sorry. This is entirely visual. So, for anyone who appreciates Loudrop has an inside out of ear right now.

He is not into this. At all. He's bored, no. My then boyfriend asked me why I was being so rude to the policeman. I mean, really. Well, I wouldn't risk it if they got guns, though. Yeah, to be fair. Big smiles for the guns.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Big smiles. The following day, we took a taxi at my insistence. We were stopped to crossing again by two policemen wanted to see our passports. Stupidly, I had left the window of the taxi slightly ajar. It was about 300 degrees outside and taxis don't have aircon. This was just enough for them to poke the end of their guns through and point them straight at our heads.

Oh my God. There was absolutely no way I was posting my passport to them through the window. So we just smashed them against the window and hoped they would leave us alone. After a bit of a chat with them and the taxi driver, they did eventually leave. So after three incidences of being held at gunpoint,

the trip was in hindsight incredibly hit and miss. Yeah. I don't know what. the hit part of that is. I hope they saw a good show at some point or found a nice market. Nice restaurant. But so far it's fully missed for me. I don't, I don't really want to go on holiday anywhere where guns exist. No. I find that terrifying. Like, I used to really want to travel to America, but now I'm like, just someone in a supermarket could just have a gun. Anywhere. Anywhere. Literally anywhere. Literally anywhere. And that's terrifying. However, the worst was yet to come.

good. On our last day in Mozambique, I was feeling proud to have survived it and we did actually have a great time. However, we needed a taxi to get us back to the airport. Public transport is non-existent. We had been successfully getting taxis the rest of the time. We were there, so thought nothing of it. However, our flight was on a Sunday. Nobody does anything on a Sunday there, as mostly everyone is in church. Basically, we were screwed. The hotel had told us a taxi was on its way, it of course was not. We stood in the lobby, panicked and tried to problem solve our way out of it. In the lobby, there was a group of old men drinking coffee and smoking. One of them heard the word taxi and in some very broken English told us he would take us. I looked at my then

boyfriend and we decided we had to trust the random guy who we'd never met with us and all our bags. We got in the car and tried to make polite conversation on the drive and until the man looked very worried and gestured to us to duck down, saying, very bad. We were approaching an armed police checkpoint, and we knew if we ended up there, we would miss our flight and probably lose all the money we had on us. Guess what? We got pulled into the bloody checkpoint. Why did you have to pay all these police off? We ducked down as low as humanly possible.

This car had no seatbelts, and I actually thought I was going to die. our driver slowed right down but he looked sweaty and panicked police started looking into the car and tapped the window with their you guessed it guns when suddenly our driver slammed his foot on the accelerator just dicks at the window you guessed it dicks um the driver

men love cars any excuse when suddenly our driver slammed his foot on the accelerator sped up and barged his way straight through the checkpoint fucking hell the police and guards scattered to avoid the car goodness knows what he drove over and into but nobody followed us

probably a couple of dicks or so yeah I mean there were a couple of flat dicks after that a couple of dicks lost and you know what they deserve it yeah um de-glob them uh do club that dick Oh God, imagine. After that felt like a lifetime.

Our driver gestured to us that we should sit up and his only words were very bad get away. Lord knows what would have happened had we actually been pulled in but I will forever be grateful to that man. When we got to the airport,

the kind stranger would not take any of our money. Helped us with our bags and said, good time, safe travel, kindness. I've never been in such a situation since and don't plan to be either. Love the podcast. and let's plunk a kind, reliable rally driver into the survival kit.

Thanks, Becky. I would, but we can't put people in the kit. Sorry, Becky. Rules are rolls. Self-driving rally car? That's got to be around the corner, surely. What, self-driving car? Yeah, they're happening.

Oh, right. I thought you meant like a story with self-driving cars. Oh, no, no, no. I don't feel like that's coming up any time soon. Just a self-driving car. I can't wait to put that in the toolkit. So, wow. Isn't that wild?

What does she mean, though? I can't imagine what would have happened. Well, presumably they would have been pulled into the checkpoint, had more guns in their faces, had to pay more money in bribes, would have missed their flight, minimum. But what, but. Or they would potentially been shot.

Surely the police can't, I mean, you, yeah, but. Yeah. The hell, I don't, I don't understand. Okay. yeah it's that or was was the taxi driver hiding something in the boot yeah

and it was nothing to do with them yeah it was like very bad there is so much cocaine in the trunk of this you have no idea this is very bad and they're like oh no we might miss our flight he's like no yeah this is ending in a shootout or nothing there is drugs and a corpse in the boot this is bad to be fair harboring like

tourists trying to get to the airport is a great cover. Because if they do get stopped, just like, they were late for their flight, they just needed to get to the airport. Don't look in the boot. Yeah. Because like, I know, because they'd been stopped multiple times, right? They'd never had a driver be like very bad.

Yeah. So it feels like a level up. The driver would never be like, can you just crouch down? No, that never happened before. Pretend you're not in. It was like, show your passport and then they did leave them away, right? Yeah. I mean, they did have to bribe them the first time.

Yeah, I still don't get that quite. Is it just to like hurry them up? Yeah. I think so. Right. Because I think they can be like, you need to get out of the country or, you know, or worse. Right. Right.

I think that driver had something in the boot. I'm now beginning to think that this driver was like, because also to not take money. Don't take money. Kindness, farewell. On your way. Thanks for the cover story. You served to purpose. Yeah.

Also, driving to the airport, maybe he was smuggling. Maybe he was then meeting up with somebody. Who knows? I think there was something more to that story. Who knows? knows. But I love that we are so cynical, we cannot, we cannot believe that a stranger out, the kind of his heart would go through all of that. I can't though, because he has to stay in the country. He probably has to, like, they have his, like, so risky. Why are you speeding through

a checkpoint with police with guns? I'm sorry, who wrote that in? Who was that? Becky. Yeah, right. I'm sorry, Becky. I don't think it was about you. I don't think he did it for you. I think you were Clarol. I feel like in every listener story, we managed to reframe it into a much more sinister, much less uplifting results for the people. So if you have a story,

you'll maybe not sure about actually what happened. We will paint it in a negative light. Send that into help at wcspod.com. People are bad. They are never good. The end. Okay, thank you for listening. Hope you survive another week.

Bye. Get attacked by an angry shark. Struck up a mountain in the dark. Pushed up the top of a big landmark. Hit by lightning in your local park. Gord in the downpour of acid rain. Struck by meteor or a train. A proton bee passing through your brain.

Attacked by that angry shark again. Hear how they survive. Trappled by a herd of buffalo. Chaste with an axe by your new. friend Joe. Buried alive in a pile of snow. It's the worst case scenario. Bonjour, Canada.

My name is Ryan. This is my best friend, Tony. And together we do the Tony and Ryan podcast, and people right across Canada, they listen to our show. Now, Stacey and Marley, you guys are sisters and pretty competitive. Can you tell us who listens more?

Oh, it's definitely me. No. We will text. each other through the day saying, hey, have you listened to the pod yet? So it's something that even we talk about as sisters, what was talked about on the pod. So when you're finished listening to this legendary podcast, check out us, Tony and Ryan.