WRFH/Radio Free Hillsdale 101.7 FM - 43 Plates of Chicken Alfredo | Boys Only #43

Episode Date: October 3, 2026

Nate and Storm chat with Jonah Swartz about the philosophy of time, yardsticks, and the Cat in the Hat snowboarding all that.

I've been feeling pretty sick recently. And I went to all these doctors to try to fear what was wrong with me. You know, I went to ear, nose throat. Like, I went to an eye specialist. Like, I really, I went everywhere. You know, and I was like, give me an answer, your doc. And I went to this, I finally went to this one doctor. And he was like, you know, son, I think the problem is that there's Mercury and Uranus.

And I said, Doc, I'm a Christian. Like, I don't really believe in all that astrology stuff. And he's like, no, no, no, son. Thermometer broke somewhere, wasn't supposed to break. So there's mercury and Uranus. Anyway, I'm Nate Gallagher. I'm Storm Drexler. And this is Boys Only.

What a great cold open. I have a thermometer on the table right here in front of me, and I'm wondering where it's... Where it'll break? Speaking of where it's been. Jonas Swartz on the podcast. Jonas Schwartz on the cast. How's it going, bro? Who are you?

Yeah, I'm not going to confirm or deny any comments made relating to that very thermometer. But I'm doing all right. I'm doing all right. How are you guys? Good, good. Thanks for coming on the show. For people that may not know who you are, which is like we're seniors now, it's kind of a growing number of little youngsters. Like, who are you?

Where may people from Hillslow College campus know you? Well, you might see me. haunting the halls of Lainer Kendall. And maybe, and maybe, strolling up and down, Manning Street. I study philosophy,

a minor in math, and I live at the Burt Place. Yes. And I used to do a lot more things. Some of those have dwindled. I serve on the outreach board for Catholic Society. And I am the secretary

of the philosophy honorary. Oh. And I think that's all my resume says. Okay. Sorry, I've been reading straight off it. Have you had your fair share of Dr. Church classes? I have had one Dr. Church class. Philosophical logic with Dr. Church.

How was that? It was wonderful. Yeah. I loved it. I hear that you guys are in a Dr. Church class. Oh, yeah. Well, we had 105 with him. We had the OG class.

Okay. We're going to be hopping in philosophy. Philosophy of language this spring with him. You should join. Oh, my goodness. It's going to be awesome. me a lit club. So are you going to ask him, are you going to ask him what the modern day vernacular means? Yeah, pretty much. Every class, we're going to come with a new set of slang words.

And we're going to say, what does this mean? Decipher these for us, please. Yeah. First one's going to be a guy at. Decipher this word for us. We've been big, I can confirm Dr. Church has used that wording class. Wow. We've been big Dr. Church fans since like sophomore year. Since sophomore year, first semester. Yeah. For over half of our collegiate career. Yeah. Why do you say that? Because he's the best. Because we took philosophy with him. He's just,

he's hilarious. And he gets it and he's smart. And he's enormous. And he's massively muscular. So he's just one of the best professors here. I love that guy. We have lunch with them like once this semester. He's great.

He's an alumnus of the show, too. He's been on the most of the podcast. Yeah. Oh, really? What did you guys talk about with him? Well, let me interject. I know this is episode 43. It is.

So which episode was he on? Meta. He was on episode nine. Yeah. About nine. Yeah. About number nine. Maybe eight.

Maybe eight. Eight or nine. His episode is called Unwieldy meme folder, where he talks about his memes that he has on class, you know? It's like 40,000 images deep. He's an unwieldy meme folder. And he talked about how he thinks that for the philosophy world and the lifting world crossover,

which is apparently a ton in his mind. And his nervousness when he gets nervous and then he lifts more. And his colleagues are like, Dr. Church, you're looking massive. I'm so sorry. Because he has anxiety. He has anxiety so he lives more. Yeah, it's really good.

But how's the philosophy major? We don't have many of those. Oh, really? On the show, at least. We've had a few on. We had Nick Rudkowski on. I love that guy. Austin Piku, former philosophy major.

Former anything major. The dude majored in everything. But how is it? Philosophy major is, it's an experience. It's an experience. And I will say, that if I could have done it over again, I would have chosen the philosophy major again.

Oh. I have yet to have a poor professor. In fact, I've had the opposite. All of my professors have been good. And the subjects have all been very interesting. I mean, when you want to learn things, you might as well learn things that you're interested in. And it's very, what's the word I'm looking for? Philosophical.

philosophical. You know, I'm going to put the right pronunciation on the wrong syllable here. No, it's very expansive. It covers a lot more subjects than you would think. Like when you think about philosophy, what comes to your mind? Just like the classic Greek guys. Like the dude with the hand on the chin. Yeah, and bald. Yeah, thinker, the American thinker.

Bald, but only on top and the rest of his hair is extremely long for some reason. Yeah. Like he's balding. No, no, I see it. Just the corners. The corners are gone. He has no lineup. But you're going to tell us it's a much more expansive.

Yeah, it covers more subjects than you think it would. And I walked in with a preconceived notion that it was going to be mostly political philosophy and ethics. And I've, you know, started to be in, well, English is my third language. Yeah, of course. I've been introduced to all the nuances and complexities that are a lot deep. than those initial political philosophy or ethical questions. What's a subject in philosophy that's like the farthest away from what you expected to be that you've read about or studied? Like a like a fringe topic.

Like way out in the ether. Like one that you were like, I didn't not think we, time, time. Time. Yeah. So basically, no, that's the wrong way to start it. Basically is the wrong way. Time. I want you to consider time.

We can't start with the basis. I want you to consider whether or not time exists as a. present moment that is ever unfolding or whether time is almost like this massive time block in which everything within that time block exists in the same exact way. So let me let me provide an illustration. If you subscribe to the growing this time block, right, and there is no specific present moment, then Abraham Lincoln still exists. Right. He just exists. Dimension. behind us. There is thus only the present.

That's more of a scientific almost because that's like time is the fourth dimension. Right. It's almost like a dimension. I've heard it said like it's like a book and if you like look at the side of a book and draw a diagonal line

with like a pencil or a sharpie across the pages, you can flip through it. And it's like when you start reading a book, you're reading the words on the first page but the words in the last page exist simultaneously with the words on the first page. They're there already. They're written.

It's like one big book. So what's my last page? last page, we don't know yet because we haven't experienced that part of the dimension. But someone has gone that way dimensionally.

Who knows? Right. So I think that's the most fringe topic. I mean, we can get more into it if you want. That's kind of scary. Do you think that's the case?

Oh, don't ask me to provide an answer. What's your take on? Do you have an opinion? This show is all about our weird opinions about nothingness. So just get and rip it.

I think I'm going to use the example of Christ incarnate. This is going to be my my main, point to illustrate. I think there was a specific time that Christ became incarnate. Zero AD, whatever you want to call it.

AD zero. That's the more academic way of saying it. However, when Christ became incarnate at zero AD, he sanctified, he saved all of time. Right. Before and after. Before and after. Yes. Yeah. So somehow I need to understand how those two things can co-relate how you can have something existing at a specific moment in time,

specifically the person of Christ. But that affects the whole block. But that affects the whole block. Wow. That was a good thing. I think I think analytically you would call this the moving spotlight theory where all of time is one big block, but there is a specific present moment, which is the spotlight. As you were saying, the words that you're reading.

you're reading one word at a time. Yeah, the actors are already over there in the dark. The spotlight is just not to them yet. Wow. Sometimes. Sometimes. But sometimes actors are not over there in the spotlight, you know? Uh-huh.

Like, sometimes, um, like, there's a true story when I was acting as a little kid. I was on this big stage, you know? Yeah. And, uh, we're, uh, we're performing the cat in the hat, right? Okay. And, uh, a lot of people have said I look like a cat in the hat. Maybe it was from this, you know, cat and hat show. They say I looked like thing too.

Dude, are you trying to Are you trying to Does that make me Sally? Can we run that? Some random family's house and ruin their lives But doesn't he like

Anyway, let me get back to my story So in this play I was the cat in the hat You know, I was tall, lanky, whatever And so there's like this moving spotlight And I'm on the stage

And I'm on the edge, right? And they're showing thing one And thing two in the middle showing a disaster that has occurred The mom's about to come in, right? She's about to see everything. She's about to throw a fit. And usually that's when the cat in the hat saves the day

because he puts everything back to normal. And so they're panning over to me. I'm going to save the day. You know, I'm the cat in the hat. And I fell over. You fell over. On to the orchestra. And I fell into a tuba.

Was that? How did they get you out of the tuba? Was that part of the play? It was not scripted. Okay. Did the guy in the tube I have to blow really hard and popped you out

and he went back on stage? Did that happen? That did happen. I shot into the air at least 15 feet. So now I want you to, I want you to think about whether or not I am the cat in the hat.

Maybe you are actually, maybe the cat in the hat was the friends we made along the way in the spotlight of time. Who is the spotlight of time on right now? Don't know. It's, so do we exist?

No. We don't. We don't. We don't. fucking heads. We're disembodied. Did your hat, did you go in the tuba? Hat first. Feet down or hat first? Feet down. So the hat stayed on your head when you got shot. Feet down. How did you? Actually, actually, he shot out in the hat like, like, woo, who, who like fell down and it landed perfectly on his head. Ah, yes. Alighted gently upon his brow. Yeah. That's wonderful. That is, that is, I could picture it, dude. I can, I can see that, I can see that happen.

I think I genuinely have a clear understanding of reality now. Yeah, that actually was Matt. That was like, massively enlightening, mostly the cat in the hat part. Because that really put, that illustrated something. That put it into a picture. Yes. Because you know.

That's what we're supposed to do, you know, provide, provide illustrations. So the person can internalize what exactly is the truth. Yeah. Today, which is Friday, definitely. Or Saturday.

Today, which is Saturday, 11, 11 a.m. We were talking about this in Capstone class today. Really? On Saturday. about how you have to know your students. You have to know if they need more of like

a theoretical picture explanation or like an analogy explanation. And you just gave us not the same thing. Not only, well, no, no, like an example versus like a theoretical breakdown. Okay. Like put it into, you just gave us both because that first part was that theoretical stuff and then that cat in the hat, that was pure example.

That was pure analogy. He needed the cat and a hat. I needed that. I'm what's called obdurate. As Dr. Stewart. You spell that for me? No. Because I'm obdurate. Word of the day.

How did you learn this word? Dr. Stewart read it to me. Obdurate? What does it mean? I don't know. Oh, so you do. No, it means like, like thick skulled. Oh, okay.

Not like stupid per se. Just like more methodical takes time to understand things. Dense. Yeah. Dense is the better word. You're like a block of cheese. I get better with age. No, I was just thinking like,

no, I don't. I don't. That doesn't happen. Just dens. Maybe you're like Swiss cheese. Full of holes. Yeah. Or you're just a holy guy.

Oh. Catholic outreach. You're all. Hey, hey, Catholic outreach. Email, Jonas Schwartz, you know, Hillsdale. What does that look like? What do you do for that?

What do I do for that? Yeah, pitch it a little bit. Because you're specifically off campus. Off campus outreach. Yeah. So what do you do? So this upcoming year, our plan is to have events that mirror the current off campus state of affairs. So usually when you live off campus, you live at a house and you invite other people over and your house serves as a gathering space.

It's a lot easier to do than if you lived at a dorm because there's 150, 200 people and you can't just like have a group of 30 people over in the, I don't know, Simpson kitchen. because then you're going to get a random dude trying to like do his laundry, walk him through and his, you know, salmon fish flops, you know, maybe boxers on. You're like, oh, that was really awkward. Hopefully you didn't hear their discussion about 9-11. And

so you can have more of those conversations. Yeah. You can. Within the context of Catholic outreach. No, no, no. No, no. Yeah.

So maybe, maybe not that last part. But during yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm with you. Just keep ripping. You know, it's like it's unexpected. Of course. But you're trying to like get like do that same thing for an off campus space.

Sorry, sometimes our conversations. It's just like, it's just a little crazy turn. Yeah, they don't the jokes sometimes don't land. I think that joke landed pretty well. Was that even a joke? Are you sure?

Look, if people are laughing, it's a joke. Right, right. That's what I's my philosophy. And you meant it as a joke. and it was very funny. It landed 15 years ago. What were you going to say, though? 20, 25.

Oh, yeah, 25. I don't think it landed, though. That's true. It stopped moving. What was this about Catholic outreach? Deep breaths. Okay. You're right.

So I'm a very serious guy, and so that's why I'm on this position in off-campus outreach, because we're able to draw these events and where we invite as many of the dudes who live off campus to hang out and have fellowship. I think it's really critical for us men, especially in our senior year, to have the opportunity to grow in brotherhood and really start considering what our next steps are.

And a very practical way of doing that is just having a space and cultivating a space where people can come together in Christ-centered fellowship. And when you do it as men, there's a difference. than just being at an off-campus party. Because you can talk to a lot of great people at an off-campus party, but when you have these specific events where you're just like, all right, pizza, you know, soda, bring a cigar if you want, bring some beer if you want.

And everyone's able to just kind of relax and connect with people they might not have even talked to before. Like my goal is to try to bring all corners of campus together with these events. So that's my general, that's the general outlook right now for off, off campus, I reach for the big events. But then other than that, I just try to, every interaction I have with someone,

I try to bring them energy, try to bring them motivation for the things that they do. Because even if it's something as simple as like, yeah, dude, you're going to go get your laundry done and you're going to clean your room and it's going to look great and you're going to be super satisfied.

Like, even those little events, I think, are... You get people who do their laundry? I need you to come over to my house. Yeah, we have a laundry crisis going on. That's right now. We have what Austin people would call wardrobe Mount Doom in our house. Does it erupt? It does. It erupts every Thursday. Is it like a random

Nate Gallagher like searching for his clean clothes and it's the dirty clothes and jumping out with them? I don't know. He's actually not the problem. It's our housemates. Give me up to this bone. If you let us listen to the last week's episode, you'll be introduced to Jack Baldwin to Victor Fernandez. Oh, I know who they are. I know who they are. I know who they are. Yes. No, I listen to the episode. Okay. It was, it was the black. Black Orpheus. Black Orpheus. And my Mustash man. And mustache man. Alabaster Eurytice.

Exactly. Right. Yeah. The wardrobe of mountain doom comes from there. Yeah. Well, it comes from... Laundry fiasco. Well, he coined the term, but it's occurring in our house weekly at this point.

Yeah. One time Victor had to do about four loads of laundry at one time. I don't understand those. Which was, I don't... I don't understand how mathematically you end up there. Yeah. Something is being reused. Well, don't you just use your hand.

Thumb. Finger. Finger. Oh, my God. It was four. I don't know how you... No, no, no, I was thinking about this. I was thinking about this.

Listen, listen, listen, listen. Listen. We're on episode number 43, right? We are. So, like, it's episode number 43 themed. And I was thinking about this, I was, I was coming over here today. Like, wow, 43 is a really big number. I don't think I could, I could get to there if I just counted on my fingers and toes.

No, that would only get you to 19. If you were Charlie Taylor. If you're Charlie Taylor. More 20 if you're a normal person. Right. So I was like... He's just as normal as the rest of us, storm. Sorry.

So, yeah, so I was just thinking about like, how do you even get to 43? I don't even have that. I think if we combined our fingers and toes collectively, we maybe could get there? We could get to 60. At the most. Is that higher or lower than 43?

Fewer. Fewer than 43. Fewer or less than 43. Sorry, we're very stupid. We, profoundly. No, no, no. You're just getting there. We're just getting there.

We're up. Up, obdurate. Obdurate. We have been described as dense. Like a block of cheese. Like a block of toes. No, more like a dumb person. Dude. We've been called one of the most brain-rotted shows you could possibly listen to.

I don't believe it. We haven't actually in coffee. We've been called in highly intellectual and highly intellectual. Yes. Yes. Yeah. The rumors about us the swirl are sometimes unflattering. Yes.

and unsubstantiated. Yes. Big word. Yes. Hey, have you been taking any philosophy classes recently? No. I have not. I took my one sophomore year.

I'm going to take one more of my senior year and that's kind of. Yep. I liked my sophomore year class though. That's two more than you would do if you didn't do them. That's true. Well, you have to take the one.

So it's one more. So it's one more than if we didn't do that. I think one of the greatest reflections of me being here at Hillsdale is just you meet so many great people. And I mean, like you two guys, Knuckles,

give me some fist pumps. This is, this is, this is, this is, this is, this is, this is like,

I'm talking to, to Sherlock Holmes and Watson right now. Like, this is a dynamic duo, like, like Batman and Robin, like Batman,

you know what I mean? Thanks, man. And like, if I didn't go to Hillsdale, I don't think I would have met you guys. Almost, where are you from? Isn't that crazy?

I was, uh, born in Pennsylvania, but definitely not that, live in Texas, yeah. Oh, okay, maybe.

, almost certainly. And so it's like, you know, would I spend $40,000 to meet you to again? Probably not. No, but I mean, you get everything else too. It's a package deal. We're just part of a broader, yeah, broader package. Don't think of it is spending $40,000 to meet us. No, dude, I would do it. I would do it. You shouldn't. I would might, look, I might even spend $43,000. I see what you do there. Because, guys, reminder, this is episode 43. Guys, there's so, there's very few things. I mean, we barely had 43 presidents.

Yeah. We've had just... We're on 47 now? No. Wait. Well, yeah. 46. But technically two of them have been twice. But technically, Donald Trump is our 45th because two of them have been twice. Because we had Grover Cleveland twice and this is Donald Trump's second term. Joe

Biden would be our 45th because Trump's not a new president. Neither was Grover Cleveland his second time. Yeah. So we're on 40s. So that takes, that's minus two right? No. Wait? Joe Biden would have been our 44 actual guy, even though he was the 45th. Sixth.

No. Yes. Sorry. Yes. As I said, you're very dumb. Profoundly. Yeah. How much math do you math?

You're a math minor. How much math is that math? What does that mean? You're 17 years old? We don't have to do that. That joke is pretty good. Thanks, dude. I appreciate it.

Sometimes when I hear a joke, I laugh. Sometimes not. Not that time. No, I recognize, though, that you were, you were trying to add, you know, you're trying to add to the, to the conversation with your, with your humor. But unfortunately, it didn't equal laughter. Sure. Sure, sure, sure. So you end up subtracting.

Have a great day. Understandable, have a great day. We're now a fraction of what we once were. But listen to this. Yeah, I'm listening. Think about if you use your hands, on one hand, you count to the number four. four. On the other hand, you count so the number three. It's like this episode right now.

That's true. I was actually asking how much math you do. That was actually a question. Yeah, so I'm doing the minor. I will have had... He can't count. I will have... Dot, dot, dot, dot.

By the end of this time, I think I would have completed five or six math classes. I came with a couple of prerex. Okay. Why are you doing the math money? I like math. That's something That's really it. A lot of people do so pitch it to us.

Yeah, like, why should I love math? You are a lover of wisdom as a philosophy major. And so why should I love that wisdom? That is math. Math is a great diorama of patterns. Whoa.

Whoa. Math introduces you to order in such a way that other subjects can't because it's almost like math is just about order and then the way things relate within that order specifically numerically. It is sometimes very abstract, but you can also apply it.

But the fact that there is that overhanging abstractness just makes the way that it is applied so much more, unique and salient. So when you say one plus one equals two,

is there any way for you to disagree with that? Not in a way that makes sense. Is that not just cool right then and there? Like you reach something and you're like, well,

this abstract principle seems to hold in every case that I think of. Now, if you like, if you, If you change what you mean by addition, let's say you're trying to,

let's say by addition, you really mean subtraction, then one plus one could equal zero, but you're fundamentally misconstruing the concept. Yeah. So if you're, if you're holding that mental image of addition, one plus one always equals two.

And then think about how many other theorems, think about how many other postulates you have in math, that will end up reverberating just like that one plus one equals true equals two. And then take that a step further and think about how it applies to your day to day situation. Like I got the one cup of water

and one cup of coffee in front of me, one cup of coffee, all right? Yeah. Forget about it. Yeah. It's always going to equal two. Two cups. Two cups, okay? Maybe I drink one, but then what I mean by cup, it's still there,

two cups, right? and I mean I could continue with how this applies to physics how this supplies to chemistry but all that math which which is the fundamental abstract understanding of those things

it's just very beautiful extremely profound math is a diorama of patterns is engraven in my brain now that's a great quote I love that yeah and you're the guy I walk up to and say chicken Alfredo

chicken Alfredo look breakfast on it with low fat cheese maybe a little bit of diced tomatoes I don't remember how this bit started. So in case you aren't aware, me and Nate Gallagher, look, we're like best friends. We might agree brothers from another mother, as some people say. They would say that. When I met Nate Gallagher, you look very similar.

Yeah, no, he's, again, cat and hat thing one. And think about this, think about this. We're both on episode 43. Like, this is just brothers probably are on episode 43. Storm, you're right there with me. All right, dude, maybe you're like the stepbrother from another mother. Okay, thank you. You're married into another mother.

I'm, this is catma. So, so me and Nate, we even, we even worked together back in high school. I remember when that happened. I didn't know this. So I remember what that happened. I was going through a really tough time. Okay. My dog, Betsy, she died.

Yeah, she got hit by the, uh, the, the milk truck. Yeah, that was. It was a rough time. Let's just say, let's just say that I couldn't drink milk after I saw that happen. That was really bad. It was pretty scar. But Nate was there for me. Nate was there for me.

and he was like, Jonah, I got you. I know, I know you're going to a rough time. Betsy, you know,

I'll drink all the milk instead. I got you. You know, Betsy's gone. And, uh, and,

uh, and, amized by the milk truck. And, and, uh, and so me and Nate, we,

we try to pick up jobs. We try to pick up jobs. And luckily, we have, we know this guy from our local Catholic church and he runs a yardstick factory. Like,

this is like, I know it's sounding crazy, but like this is a true story. So me and Nate, we go and we start working to this yardstick factory. You know, we're helping chop down trees.

We're helping, of course, you know, measure out 36 inches. You're in the line of production. You know that some of these yardsticks, like your teacher used. Or like for the people who are listening, your teacher used some of these yardsticks.

Like this is like a big yardstick. Your hand is in the line of production for that. Right. Right. So like me and Nate were out here like changing the world. Yeah. 36 inches at a time. And,

what was really interesting is that we got to meet the boss. You know, he was very, very virtuous guy. He gave me another dog. For the sake of math, and enter Betsy Prime. Yes. Squared even.

The derivative of Betsy is Betsy Prime. In honor. And so things were going really well, but unfortunately, me and Nate had to stop working there. It was pretty bad because, yeah, just for some reason, the YAR's sick factory,

they weren't making them any longer. Oh, that was. that was such an elaborate joke that was fantastic I didn't catch even the punch line for a second

because I thought it was making them any longer making them any longer your career had to end there yeah so that was that was just yeah me and Nate worked when we were in high school together

you know brothers from another mother you know cat and the hat thing thing too right I'm a thing too I thought that was going to come around to chicken Alfredo at some point no yeah yeah so let me connect you back in there So the Yardstick Factory, they weren't making them any longer, unfortunately, right?

But they started making chicken Alfredo. They did start making chicken Alfredo. And so one thing that me and Nate would have to yell at each other is we would be making Chicago and Alfredo. And then we'd throw it at each other. Sometimes we'd throw 43 plates of chicken Alfredo at each other. And we'd have to yell, hey, chicken Alfredo. It's coming down the pipe.

So we would know, we would know that like it's getting tossed to us, right? 43 of them at a time. And so, but then the restaurant. expanded. It wasn't just chicken Alfredo anymore. So we had to start yelling random stuff at each other, you know, like, uh, it could be anything. Turkey with stuffing. Right. And he, and he, and made fat omelet with diced tomatoes. I got to know what that is now. You got to know, and I got to move that down. And so now you got to know the exact wait because you're catching 43 of them. Right. Right. Right. Right. Like, uh, you know, and, you know, um, well, I actually did meet the

driver of that milk, that milk, that milk car who, uh, who ran over Betsy. Oh my gosh. Yeah. I know about this. Yeah, that was a really intense day. I was like, dude, why'd you do it? He said, moo. What? There was a cow driving the milk car?

Click, clack, moo. How's that type? Have you ever read that story? Click, clack moo. I have none. And then he looked if you said, he said, do you,

can I please order some chicken off right now? No, he actually, you know, cows just drink water, actually. So he just wanted some water. Anyway. He said, God. Geez, why you interrupted me, guys?

Dude, it's all right. Me and Nate, me and Nate, every time we see each other, we just like recollect those old times of working out that, the yardstick

and then restaurant, restaurant factory. Something like that. So we just yell random, random food menu items at each other. Yeah.

It's a whole thing. Yeah, you gotta be there to see it. It's, it's like a whole thing. That's wonderful. What's the most eclectic one you've been able

to purl recently? I mean, come up with one now. I'm, I can't, I want to make it something like so beautifully,

good, delicious transcendent, something that is as philosophically enriching as his explanation of mathematics. Cucumber salad. Just to see that's a good... Fresh celery with saracha hummus. I really like that as well.

Beats. I'm going to raise you with... Beats. Yes. I was going to say that. He took the words right at him. Beats. Because Bears... Battlestar. Battlestar. Bears do not. Identity theft is not a joke.

Are you referencing that hit TV show Gray's Anatomy. Almost. So close. Nearly. No. Swing. And that is in fact a miss.

Shoot. Is it like American Ninja Warrior? That's the one. Yeah. Yep. That's the one. Why would they be talking about

Bears beats on Battlestar Galactica? Because a bear is like a And that's a mobile creature, right? We think of bears as these big and like they're, there was a very Ersan competitor on that episode of American Ninja Warrior. But a bear, they're climbing up

trees, they're, they're catching fish. You know how you gotta catch it with the mouth. Dude, they don't got no pull. They're catching fish with straight, with straight teeth. Yeah. That's an agile creature. Now a beat, like, uns, like that's, that's like, that's got, that's, that brings order.

That's how you get over those big, like, wipeout, like, bouncy things. You have to get your rhythm. Beat into your head. There's a rhythm to it. Now, Battlestar Glott's, that's just super cool. And so they send you in the space It's all on American Ninja Warrior It was all on it all ties back to America

And as well as the restaurant factory Yeah That episode funny enough is called Yardsstick 43 Of American Ninja Warrior The Yardstick episode You should check it out Yeah the yardstick

I like this I like this no that makes sense Because at first second I was like Wait It was probably the office right That's where that quote comes from Yeah Yeah it does actually

It's not We were just we were just We were making a fabrication Yeah. Yeah, my favorite episode from the office is when, uh, is when they're, they're working in the office. You know, now that's the you mention it, that's a sleeper episode. That's a great one. That's a sleeper episode. That's a deep poll. The one where they're doing the stuff and the things. I'm pretty sure there's this guy. His name is Michael. And Michael's, like, he's silly. He's the manager. And he's a silly guy. So he manages and. He's very professional. You know, I've, I've seen the whole, I've seen the whole show. No, like, yeah.

Front to back. Yeah, no. But my favorite, my favorite episode is definitely the one where they're working. I actually saw the whole show back to front. I watched it in reverse. It gives a different flavor. So you watch it completely. Jim and Pam get divorced, basically.

Yes. And then her date her ex. And then her date her ex. Well, her not ex. No, her date a guy and the date him again. How do you get on pregnant? You got to watch the office backward to find out. Pretty sure we know.

how you do that. I'm not going to mention it. No, no, I'm talking about like the kid is already born. Are you asking how a baby dies? No, I'm just saying like if there's like a kid and then there's like the belly's big again and then the belly's small. Like where's the kids is one of the great mysteries of life. It's one of the great. Yeah.

Where'd the kid go? You guys ever think about being pregnant? No. No. I'm a guy. Do you know? Like sometimes sometimes I think about pregnancy and I'm like. I'm like, wow, that's a lot of weight.

That's right. It's almost like you're like bearing another person's burden or something. But why would that be the first thing you would say? That's a lot of weight. It's not that I'm like, you know, that's not. Is she going to listen to this episode, do you think? Is she going to hear this? Is there a woman out there who will listen to this episode?

No, I have no idea. I do not possess a woman. please if I did so that would be illegal okay all right let's let's make sure that we're staying legal in our conversation have you ever sold narcotics do we have any questions have you yeah we have a few you know I mean we can talk about extra legal things we can yeah Catherine asked. Who is this, Catherine?

I don't know. It's just some person who asked a question. It could really be anybody. Yeah. Tell us about your dreams to be a professional snowboarder. Have you ever snowboard? Wait, what?

Tell us about this. Let me tell you about this. So, in case things go to crap. I'm allowed to say that on this. Yeah, of course. That's illicit. Like, I'm not like... You're not going to get smacked with legal fees.

Okay. But in case things do go to crap. What about narcotics? I don't know. What about 43 pounds of cocaine? for episode 43. What do we do? What about snowboarding?

Anyway, well, like, there's a lot of powder. There's a lot of powder, you know what I mean? It's a different kind of snowboarding. Yeah, but tell us about your dreams to be a professional snowboarder. Does this get me in trouble if I,

if I talk about joking? No. Right, okay. I just want to make sure, you know, you never know. Of course, we're the experts. Come to us. I mean,

think about, how many people are woke, you know? You can't even say jokes about, like, fat people because then the fat people are just going to like sit on top of you and crush you. That's bad.

That's an undesirable outcome. That's a lot of weight. That's a lot of weight. Like, come on. I can't like make a joke about how much you weigh before you crush me with all that weight. Is this something you do snowboarding? Yeah, where are we? Can we trace a line back?

I'm just thinking about, I'm just thinking about woke people. Yeah. You know, am I woke? Maybe. Are you awake right now? I don't know, man. This has all been a dream. You know, why don't we just talk about the current political socioeconomic seat of the world?

Are you going to tell this is no- No, anyway, yeah. You're leading me on here. So, I have a dream. Okay. If I ever find myself in a situation where I'm a bit sad, where I'm a bit helpless. Downcast. Where I'm downcast, where I'm downtrodden.

When I walk outside and I'm a bit sad, where I'm a bit helpless. I'm not smiling. If I ever find myself in a situation like that, I'm going to consider moving to Europe. To Europe. Europe. Yep. So all my stuff.

Move to Europe. Buy myself a snowboard. Get up on the Alps and just snowboard for the rest of my life. That's literally my plan. I will make YouTube channel, Instagram, whatever, get sponsored by Red Bull,

you know. Do you have a background of it? Or is that just something you want to do? Have you ever snowboarded before? I've never snowboarded before. That was actually in her question. Have you ever? snowboarded before. I've never snowboarded

before. I've never snowboarded. I had a skate skate. Okay, it's a little intuitive. And I have surfed. Oh, you'll pick it. You'll pick it up. So I can pick it up pretty quickly. Yeah, but if you've wakeboarded? By wakeboarded? Like behind a boat? I've not. No. That's my favorite. That's my favorite. You don't know why? Because I was watching the Titanic movie one time. And so every single time, I'm out on the ocean, I'm scared that a lady's going to chase me around.

or are you a homeless man in this situation? Well, like, I don't know, maybe I lived in France and I was a questionable artist and, you know, some lady's just going to be like infatuated me and then I'm gonna die. That is. So that's why I'm scared of boats. Well, she could move over on the door, presumably.

There's probably enough room on that door. Unless she's a fat person. I mean, that's a lot of weight. I think there's a limit, right? It's something like 43 more pounds. For, for, or maybe he's kilograms. 43 more kilograms. Yep, yep, yeah.

Yeah, sometimes I think about if I'm ever fat and I'm depressed. What would be your catchphrase if you were a European snowboarder? Gishui on a nas. So, my would be just we on a nose. My, which means I am a pat-in-the-hat. Did you snowboard all of that. Would you dress in the regalia of the cat? if I was fly

El Gato Come on man Would you style yourself With Elgato And you'd be like a menace on the Alps Is the Swiss Alps Lechotte And you just tear it up

Leschotte Les shot And then he go foo down the mountain You would be a menace On the Swiss Al Something of folklore Have you run into Lechotte He is his 63 America

Who snowboards and crushes People It became Russian there at the end It was good though I liked it I liked it A slob folklore It'd be more French Yeah, French folklore

Yeah I wish I could become something of folklore Yeah Like they evolved into something That like Beowulf would fight Yeah So like a dragon Or like a troll

Or like a witch What is Something spiritual Um Oh my gosh I'm completely blanked On the name of the Grendel

ever be a wolf? Yeah What is Grendel supposed to be It's like a troll-like Dark entity But he cuts off his what Neck He hangs it from the rafters

Yeah Or his arm Or his tail He hangs something From the rafters Well he's just a big monster Oh But he is like a folklore monster

It's like folk horror It's like 63 Bapri former basketball player Yeah He's 511 on bad days He's 511 on a really bad day Wait Who are you guys

talking about. Grendel from Beowulf. Grendel from Beowulf. Was he a manager on the basketball team like freshman year? Yes, he actually did manage a basketball team. He managed the basketball team.

This guy that you're talking about he sounds like an idiot. Oh my gosh. Yeah. I don't know if that's a sensitive subject but like what happened? You used to do that and we loved it at the basketball games.

It was like you and Ty were just over there in Polos just hanging out. It was awesome. God had other plans. You quit that. And one day, my meniscus was no longer a meniscus. That happens to the menisca.

Wait, when was that? It was the summer right after my freshman year. Okay. That would make sense. Yeah. You just blew it out? Full meniscus repair surgery. They did that.

Wow. And I'm still recovering from it. Wow. Yeah. I did not know that. Yeah. No, basketball. I love it.

I love it. And I still do. And I'm still trying to get back out on the court. But collegiate hoop dreams. Dude, I can't really do much against that. You probably have years of eligibility. I do have years of eligibility, but you come back at 27 and hoop. Unk.

Unc who, with the new rules, man. You can do whatever you want. That's right. They're updating basketball, I hear. Basketball, too. Have you heard about these guys who are in the NBA, now they're trying to play in the WMBA? That's horrible.

I don't know if we should touch that. I don't know if we should touch that with a yardstick. With a 36 inch bowl. 34 inch yardstick? Six. 36? 34 would not be a great yardstick. It would be a yardstick.

lost the entry two. Two exactly actually. Or two. Pinpoint accuracy. One of the two of those. Do you know who Liam Brennan is? You can say no. It's okay.

You know, Liam? He's infamous. I need to meet you. I need to meet you, Liam. Send me an email. He asks, what's your favorite book? What is your favorite book, Jonah? And why is it Katna?

And why is it Dr. Seuss's to think I saw it on Mulberry Street? Dr. Seuss is a great author. I thought he wrote it. No, that is... And the Shiner. That's Stephen King. I thought that was Cooper Vandergaly.

Yeah, it was that one. Actually, you're right. Random shout. What is my favorite book? Or just a great one you read. Just a great book. Like one of those ones we read freshmen. Right, the reason I'm pausing is because

I have read so many different types of books and I enjoy all the different types of books. And I enjoy all the different. different types of books. So then I have to find one that like sits above all the different like genres. Genres. So and it's not even like I have a favorite in each genre because even the genres have subgenres. It's like, you know, genres all the way down.

There's nothing but genres actually. You know, maybe that's what philosophy is. It's just genres. What is the genre? Genera. Genre. You ever have the thing where you say a word so many times? It doesn't mean anything.

It happens with squirrel. 43. That too. Yeah. Squirrel is really easy. You say squirrel like eight times and you just like it means nothing. So Liam, let me answer your question. If I had to give you my favorite book, one book that I've already, do we discuss Moby Dick yet? No. I love that book. I think it is the greatest American novel, epic, whatever you want to call it. It's everything. Now I'm not an English professor. And so, you know, I do not invite. I mean, I do invite the English professor to smite me, to smack me down if my takes are disapproving. But to be interesting and to be, you know, not like other guys, I will...

I'm not like other guys. He's not like other guys. I read Moby Dick. A book that I personally have a lot of attachment to is something wicked this way comes. by Ray Bradbury. Ooh. So, like the line from Macbeth?

Yes. Yes. That is explicitly quoted in the book. It is the line from McGrath. I forget what the first part of the phrases. It has to rhyme with comes. By the way, we should talk about movies after this.

Yeah. Don't want you forget. Okay, okay, okay. Anyway, so something wicked this way comes. To give you a brief, it is almost a building's Roman and like a coming of age story for these two characters

Jim and Will and they're in this small town probably somewhere in the Midwest and they see this carnival in the middle of the night show up and this carnival comes in the middle of the night

on a train they've never seen before and it almost self-autonomously sets up itself like the inanimate carnival sets itself up. That's cool. And so something's off, right? Something's fishy. And they

and they go to this carnival. They see some of the sites right at the beginning. But again, it's very, very eerie. And there's this one specific item of the carnival. I will not say anything more. So the book is not ruined. That is like the particular

focal point of the book. And it's really interesting because it does not only consider the coming of age or the character development of those two kids, but it also picks up the character development of Will's father. And it's almost Will's father reaching a new level of maturity and wisdom throughout this entire book. And for those specific reasons, I find it particularly powerful. It is such an eerie book. I've never read a book that actually creeps me out before. And this book is written by Ray Bradbury. I mean, it's not like Stephen King,

as we were just talking about. It's not like he's known for just freaking you out, but he definitely is able to illustrate a very dark and, and, uh, eerie mood and setting.

And that alongside the, the character development of a boy and of a father, I find particularly interesting. So that's, that's a recent book. That's one of my favorites. That's good.

Do you have a favorite book? Dante. Inferno? Or which part of them? All three of them. Yeah. I don't because you can't take you can't take them away from each other

well I mean you sort of can but not really they're one story yeah that being said Paradisor's the worst by like a country mile it's so it's so bad the last one is terrible

but the ending's great the last bit of Paradisio is wonderful it's all right go check it out you can get there check it out you only have to read 700 pages medieval Italian you can chew through that

look inferno was fantastic purgatory is pretty good. It's overhated, I think. People always are like, inferno only. Pergatorio. Pergatorio. That's a bad take.

Parodies, there's no anything. There's no story. I think it's profound. I'm always skeptical of when, in a non-theological context, you have God or figures representing God say anything about the world. What if you about Milton, then?

Well, Milton is, I think that you can do it if it's like evidently not what you believe. But if it's like if it's clearly at all something you believe, which Dante clearly believes what he's writing at least a little bit. Yeah. You can tell because of who he puts in hell, it's a little bit vindictive and who he puts in heaven. Again, it's kind of vindicating them. I don't know. I don't like when people put their own words in the mouths of characters

who clearly are supposed to be divine. That's why I don't like. You're a people group I don't like, so you're in this layer of a girl. That's why I don't like Boethius that much. Whoa. I think that in that critique, though. I love the constellation of philosophy.

I don't like it that much. I, okay, I really hated it freshman year. I read it again. I hate it less. Because I realize that lady philosophy sometimes is a little bit wrong. So I hate it less now. Well, I don't think lady philosophy is meant to be God.

No. But just because you have a figure who is meant to represent the truth, doesn't mean that you should be entirely oppositional to that figure. I'm not. I mean, actually, I guess I am kind of just. You're skeptical guy. I'm very, I'm skeptical, I guess, would be the right. I feel like that can also be applied in reverse to Inferno, though.

He puts people who he disagrees with in hell. Yeah, but that's funny. That is really funny. That's way funnier, and also no one does that. That's true. Because no one has the nerve. Have you read Narnia? No.

I actually have not. Have you read Lord of the Rings? Yes. What do you think about Gandalf? He's old. But he's like an angel. He's like a god. That's a lot less explicitly, though.

That's true. It's well, okay. He's definitely represents the leader. Yeah, but Dante, I'm literally putting you in hell or I'm literally putting you in heaven. That's true. It's, it is, it's less, because of how not, it's, because it's not explicit is almost more explicit, but it is literally less explicit than what happens in Dante. I'm also just really bad at articulating.

I see your take. I'm just bad at articulating this point, this take that I have, but it's a take. And I took, that's the New Yorker way is stand by the take until you die. Never abandon the hill. Hey. This is my hill. and I'll be damned if you're going to get near this hill. And so I'll die on it.

That's fine. You know, a little novel that's occupied a corner in my brain and has done so for as long as since I've read it is the Westing game. Have you guys heard of this book? You've probably mentioned on the pod. It's a little book called The Westing game. It's a mystery novel.

Fiction. And it's about this guy, Sam Westing, who I think he's named Sam Westing. He's super rich, billionaire, dies. It's kind of an old novel. It's like, I think probably written in the 90s, maybe in the early 90s. And he dies and he leaves his will and he invites these like 15 people to his will readings,

an odd eclectic bunch. Some of them, people don't even know how they have, like how he's connected to them. And in the will reading, he's like, one of the people in this room is my murderer. And whoever solves that and comes forward with it at the second will reading, the second half of the will reading, will receive my entire fortune. And that kicks off the novel. Why not the murderer just do it? the murderer doesn't want to be outed because then the

the murderer will forfeit all the money and go to jail. You can't claim the money of the person you murdered legally. But the dude's not dead yet, right? No, he is dead. Well, the murder is dead. This is his funeral. They open his will and he's like, I was killed by a person in this room. I was killed.

So the dead guy knows it. Yeah, but he's dead. The murderer has no reason not to high tail it out of town because he hasn't zero some game. But then that's true. The murder should hide should leave or fake his own death. I think they all immediately get.

like snowed in to the town. So like they all hop. Thickens. I'm pretty sure they do all immediately get snowed in. And so then you're trying to figure out you, the audience, or the real. How much snow? A lot. Enough that you can't leave.

More than one. Is that at least? 43 at least. Okay. I just wanted to check. How many yards stakes worth of snow is? Yeah. That's how we do. Probably more than one. Yeah.

Yeah. Above one. Fewer than 44. Banana split. Yeah. But good book. Banana swore. Intriging premise.

Very fun. The writing style is really, really cool because it kind of swaps back and forth between different characters' mindsets rather than just their physical actions and words, which is something Frank Herbert does in Dune. He writes a lot of, almost all of his character descriptions

are from the eyes of other characters. So the character walked into the room and be like, do you know who really started that? Yeah. Now, I could be really wrong here, but it's very prevalent in Jane Austen. That's cool. I haven't read enough Jane Austen.

I think it's like the third, I forget the technical term, but it's something about like the third person, it's almost like the message point. Yeah, third person, first person. And so I remember my senior year of high school, reading Jane Austen, that was just like drilled into me.

I was like, look, my teacher was saying like, whether or not you care about the love and romance, look at the reading or look at the writing. And it's, I find it simply, um, intriguing as you were saying. Yes. Like you were just saying that these two books that you're referencing

the way that it's talking about the mindset, how you're viewing characters from other characters' perspectives. I like that a little bit more because it, especially in a mystery novel, because it doesn't give you much objectivity to go off of. You don't get many concrete details. You just get what people think about other people. Is the mystery book still worth reading

after you know who done it? Yes, I've read it three or four times at this point. And it's getting better and better. There's more and more and more details I notice. And like, none of it. of the red herrings are really actually red herrings. They're just clues you didn't look twice at. Okay.

And that's, that's awesome. I think I have, this might be a hot take or this might be very lukewarm and everyone might agree with it. But a lot of movies and stories that we get today are all mysteries. And mysteries are really fun. Don't get me wrong.

But it's almost after you solve the mystery, there's no point in returning to the text. There's no point returning to the film because it already occurred. It already happened. Like, I already know the solution. Is there anything beyond that? And so as you were saying,

you've read this book multiple times because there is something beyond that. Details. There are these details. Do you think there is more of a... Does it even go beyond the mystery, though? I think so. I think there's an underlying message.

Is there a commentary? There is a comment. There's an underlying message about family in the book. A not huge spoiler, but minor spoiler is that a couple of the people turn out to be his family that don't appear to be his family at the beginning. Some of the people turn out to be his friends. Some people turn out not to even know him.

And he invited them for reasons because they're connected to other people that are at the well reading. So it's about relationships and how people look at each other based off of fundamental like ground, like family relationships. And like how should you treat a friend of a friend? Should you treat them with cordiality immediately or with hostility immediately or

start them on neutral ground? It's like the Odyssey movie. Yeah. It's like the Odyssey movie. It's exactly like Chris and Olens Odyssey. I always One of my favorite questions to ask people is, why is the Odyssey movie by Christopher Nolan better than Homer's epic poem? By Christopher Nolan also.

I didn't even think about it. Both Homer's epic poem by Homer by Christopher Nolan. Correct. And the Odyssey, they're both by the same guy. Did you like the movie? I guess, yeah, let's just jump into movies right now. Yeah, you want to talk about movies.

Yeah, I know. Movies are awesome. He said explicitly reminded me later. Maybe I need to start a movie podcast with Thomas Potter. Shout on Thomas Potter. He's a cool guy. If you haven't met him, you shouldn't meet him. He's pretty.

pretty easy to see. Unless he's standing sideways comparatively to you then. Wyatt Stanley. He's gone. He's gone. Thomas Potter, he's a great guy. I love that guy.

And the Odyssey movie, visually stunning. Yes. Visually stunning. Action sequences, practical effects, just frankly insane. Christopher Nolan, what are you doing with this massive Cyclops puppet thing?

It's so cool. So cool. So cool. did I enjoy it as I was watching the movie? You know, somewhat. But I think for me, at least that's where it ends. I enjoyed it, one watch around, but I will never watch it again

because it lacked the things that I personally enjoy most of the movies, which is character development. Yep. And dialogue. I was big on the dialogue front. I took that stance when the movie came out. I thought the dialogue was extremely poor and a perversion of the original dialogue

and you can make dialogue in this movie you could have written dialogue for this movie that was not necessarily the original dialogue super hard to understand convoluted lines of verse but still was like at least a reflection of that and they didn't even try they just am fisted the dialogue have you not read it or have not one no

I know I knew I wasn't gonna like it he's just like it's good it's good but it's not great I don't like when they make books like that into like if there was a moby dick movie I would never go see it unless it was the entire, unless it was the entire book line for line

portrayed on the screen I would not okay here's a movie wreck in the heart of the sea that is it just movie dick it's not just movie dick but it is a visual representation of the story which inspired Herman Melville to write movie dick so Herman Melville is in the movie

obviously fictionally represented but that is a good movie wreck so anyone who's listening this podcast. No, you should watch in the heart of the sea. Okay. Now, back to the Odyssey, you haven't seen it. No. Do you think you're going to see it? You were just saying

you didn't like... Now, I read the book. The book didn't blow me away. Okay. It's my second favorite of the classical trilogy, which I call the Iliad Odyssey Aeneid. It's my least favorite. That is my second favorite. It's right in the middle for me. What do you look dislike? The Inead. Oh, get out of it. That's my favorite. Yeah. I love that one. It's just...

The Telo Dido? The founding of Rome? His The gladiatorial fight. Those, the first few chapters are nice and good. Awesome. I like those. Did you flip up, you just read Iliadana saying, you've been like,

what a, what a story. There's nothing else to tell. You flip up in the first page. Chapter one, the fall of Troy. Yeah, you're right back in it.

It's called the final hours of Troy. As I said, I liked the first like four chapters of the Enid, and then that totally lost me. He went to Rome and I was like, I don't, I'm gone. Oh, then he fights like the barbarians.

The Italians. Hey, man. Those are my people, the Iniad. No, he's your people. He's the founder of the Italians. They're like the, like the Latium. He's the first ever Italian.

He slicked his hair back and everything when he got there. Yeah, he did. He pulls up to there and he said, I need a pizza. Hey, give me a pizza pie. Come on. That's the, that's what he, that's the, that's the, any of it. No, but the Dido part was good. Yeah.

That was very good. He goes there. Doesn't Dido, uh, she made a song called white flag, its whole thing. Well, doesn't she have some sort of like crush on anew? It's a little more than that, but yes. Yes. It's that magnified. They are, they are entangled.

It's not like a crush. It's not like, you know. It's like they're in a cave doing stuff. They're. Yeah. Yeah. Wait, are you telling me that they're holding hands. Yes, that is what you're trying to tell you.

Pre-marital holding hands. Why does Hillsdale College make us read these books? Wait, does he just leave her or does he actually leave her at the altar? No, he doesn't leave her at the altar. Because he has a wife. He has a wife. They're never going to get married. He's just, he's just like, she's infatuated with him.

He entertains it. And then he's like, I gotta keep going. I gotta keep going on my trek. So he set sail again and Dato's like super sad. And her wailing, Cass had to see, and her sorrow fills the rest of the book. And he constantly thinks about that and laments about that. And it's like, I shouldn't have let myself gotten,

or let her get close to me ever. Because I just break her heart. And that starts the great Carthaginian Roman rivalry. Correct. Definitely that. She is like, we must slaughter whatever nation he will found in a year. And it's definitely not just political. and economic rivalry over dominance

of the Western Mediterranean. It's very clearly about that. He broke the Queen's heart. Yes, it's not at all for... So therefore, let's get a million elephants. Or the control of Sicily. Let's go smack them. It was like maybe.

It was like maybe seven. It was more than that. It was like maybe 50. It was not that many elephants. It was 43 elephants. You know how hard is to move an elephant anywhere? Really hard. Really easy.

I don't... I heard that elephant. offense might be more than 43 pounds. Yes, but fewer than all of them. You know, Johnny, you're smaller than a big refrigerator, but bigger than a small refrigerator. Have you ever thought about how you put your socks on before you put your shoes on, which you can only take your socks off after you take your shoes off? That's massive.

I take my socks off before. That's a temporal palindrome. What I did. It's forward and backward the same in time. No, I rip my socks. off my feet to take them off and then I take... This is a man that lives by no boundaries. Yes.

You can't hold me back. He's a free will player. You can't hold me back. Yeah. I'm not bound by... We live in a society. Can we go back to movies? Yeah.

Yeah, we got time. We have all the time in the world. Okay, yeah. No, going back to the Odyssey movie. Yeah. So your biggest critique was the dialogue. Mm-hmm. That was my big critique.

I think it was artistically beautiful. I think that the the critique I heard other critiques about how it wasn't historically accurate like the armor and like the visual details weren't historically accurate oh my gosh it's a myth yeah it's a myth I do I do not give two riffs it's meant to be mythos I don't give a rip either

it's a myth like come on come on we're watching it and we shot with IMAX cameras and Agamemnon has a golden golden cuted spine embedded into the back of his helmet right that's the coolest thing ever come on can we talk about Agamemnon looking like Darth Vader he's definitely not getting world's best best

his dad's shirt for Father's Day. No, he did. Famously kills his own daughters. In order to, he, yeah, because Artemis is giving them bad wind and not letting him get a joint. Correct.

He, like, killed a deer or something. He killed one of Artemis's something. It's okay, because Clytemnestra? That's his wife. Will kill him. Right, so she... And then their kid will kill him. But then, well, Clytemnester

also cheats on him with a gistice until Agamemnon gets home. Right. Then Agamon's son, Orestes, comes back home. and slimes out cladam nestra and there's the daughter this talk about the other daughter is electra talk about family dysfunction i don't remember the name of the daughter he sacrifices um i don't it's like egyptelis or something it's something like that her name begins with like an i or an e but yeah talk about a dysfunctional family look i i do i i i don't think i would want to live in a family no it's if a janiah but if a jani that might be a hot take it was i or arrestes then goes to athens fleeing because he committed matricide,

so the furies come, the aurenees, come to attack him, and he flees to Athens, and appeals to the judicial system in Athens, and the story becomes a courtroom drama in which Athena presides over the furies versus Orestes.

You can't win that case. It's a split vote by the Athenian democracy, and so Athena breaks the tie, gives it to Orestes. The furies are super upset. I mean, they're furious. Of course, they're furious. And so then Athena's like, it's okay,

If I grant you a position here in Athens to be our guardian spirits, will you accept defeat? And they were like, yeah. The Furies have to guard Athens? That's like the whole story. That's kind of a bad deal compared to being like the goddesses of punishment. Yeah. I'd be able to just do something wrong.

Well, you know their moniker of like the kindly ones? That's what Athena gives to them at that point. I don't know. I know. So the furies where the word furious comes from is, I don't know that moniker. I know them was the angry ones that run after you when you do something bad. They became the kindly ones. That was at the end of their career.

That was when they were washed. That was when the theories got washed up. That's their Michael Jordan Washington Wizards. But that was a tangent away from, like, I'm not being not a great dude. Yeah. What a great guy. Anyway. So, yeah.

So when I think about the Odyssey movie, it just, respect to Christopher Nolan, his three Batman movies, I find. Those are mint. Yeah. They fulfill the dialogue. They fulfill the character development. like those two kind of criteria, so to speak, of what makes it film good according to Jones.

Yes. Now, just with this one, I think he, I think it was out of his wheelhouse maybe. It just wasn't as, it just wasn't what I wanted it to be. I mean, I think just a specific example of how I think the overall film kind of fails is the characterization of Calypso

and Odysseus's time spent on Calypso's island. in the book you have this wonderful depiction about the basic paradise that Calypso lives on trees, leaves, flowers, food,

they're like spirits bringing them wine and water and it literally is like the garden of Eden. In the movie, it's like a desert island. It's a sandbar. It's a sand bar

with his ship Rick looks like a sandbar. Like, she's just like monotone color. There's nothing vibrant about the entire. And they cast a middle-aged, like, older actress. Like, they cast like a woman in her late 40s. And I wouldn't even mind of that if there was color. Right.

Isn't Calypso, wait, Calypso when he spends two years with or is that sergsy? No, he's been. Corsi is two years. He's been seven years with Clippso, I believe. Which is the one with the house and the guy falls off the roof. That's Cersie. That's Cersie. That's Cersie.

Who turns them in the gigs? them confused. He stays on, Odysseus stays with Calypso for seven years. I thought it was two. I think it's, no, Circe's the two. He's eclipses the seven.

I'm mad lost. He stays a surcee for two, clips over seven, and then it's another year of just island hopping because it's 10 years to get home from Troy to Ithaca. And it just, it makes the whole dynamic

between Odysseus and Calypso really confusing. Like, why is Odysseus here? I mean, the movie says they have a flower. Because he's got a flower. getting basically drugged. Yeah.

Right. Talk about narcotics. You know what I mean? Yeah. You know, like get on Clipsus Island. You'll feel really good. You'll not want to leave. But other than that, the place looks like a sandbar.

So you're telling me that the guy who's known for twist and turns is chilling a sandbar. He wasn't that witty in the movie. No, no. I don't think they mean witty in the same way we mean witty. Whitty is like funny for us. He's not funny. I don't even mean that. He doesn't, he's not like, he doesn't out.

smart anybody. He just shows up on an island. Something scary happens, so he runs away. Yeah, he's not. He does that a lot in the book, too. He does that, but he's also like, he also outsmarts the cyclops. He doesn't in the book, really. Yeah. They hide under the sheep like they do. Now that I'm

reflecting on the book, he doesn't do that much outsmarting in the book. He does it with the cyclops. Do you not remember the whole scene with the Phoeotians? Oh yeah, the feetians, he does that too, but like with the cattle, he just says, don't eat them. And they eat them. And he's like, dang, do you ate them? remember the scene with the sirens?

Well, he doesn't outsmart anybody. He just says, he says, plug my ears. Or don't plug your ears. Tie me up so I can listen to the sirens. But that's not outsmarting. That's brute force. He's just pushing himself through it. He's just tanking that.

He's just tanking that. He also doesn't outsmart Silla and Karybdis. He just, again, he just kind of tanks. Well, actually, he outsmarts the crew. The crew, if they had known Scylla and Krividas were there, would not have gone that way, and they would have gotten pushed off to other islands that were wayward. so he Odysseus had to lie to his crew and tell them that was the way to go but they had to go back through yeah but that's later and his ship gets eaten by

chrypti he doesn't know that yet he's like dang it surce he's like you gotta run that dude gotta run it yeah you gotta pass by cicely that's pretty bad the way caribdus looked in the movie is it just a swirling water no cryptis is the no wait caribtis is the water never mind i didn't like how sila looked in the movie what does silla look like it's a bunch of like gray rock things that come down like it was you know it was just interesting choices. I'm not going to, I'm not going to dog the whole entire movie. Again, I started with compliments. I enjoyed my watch. I liked the cyclone. I enjoyed my watch. It was an experience. Movies a lot of the time need to have that aspect. You need to enjoy a movie for it to do anything beyond it. Just like a little bit. And I mean, telemachus and Menelaus, anytime Tom Holland and John Berntholk interact on a screen is fantastic. John Bernthal is playing Menelaus. Yeah. Oh my God. I got to talk. So, Tom Holland, Telemachus, goes to Menalais.

his house because he needs tolemachus. He goes there because he needs to find out. I know. And so who plays the old one? Wait, wait, wait, wait. And listen, listen, wasn't. No, he's not in the movie. Since he's trying to find something out, he's, he's seeking answers, he comes, and John Rethel says, let me tell you something. Actually? Yes. You're kidding me. Let me tell you something. He would not have said this strictly. Manila said, let me tell you something. So Nestor's not in the movie.

No. Nestor is like a big part because he gets in. Well, the feetians are in the movie. He links it with his son. He links it with Nestor's son. And like they, No, Manilaes. For all the freshmen listening to this podcast right now, let me give you a recommendation. Take Dr. Benjamin Wayland's Great Books One Course and he will unfold the mysteries of the Odyssey in a way that is superbly delectable, as I might say. Yes. So good. Quite.

But moving from a movie that I thought was like, it was all right. I mean, it's all right. Like, I'm going to, I think I should, I should discuss like a movie. that I think has more, has more substance. Is that all right? Yes. Yeah, what movie slaps like crazy? Slaps like crazy. Did you not have one in my thing? Muppets from space. Muppets from space.

That does, okay. Facts. Okay. Top one favorite thing about Wippets for space. The space. I'll rather, I say the Muppets. The movie? The movie? Can I say that? Everything. Yeah. Is that a 10 out of 10 for you? It is, I think, number four. on my top five movies.

Number four in your top five? Number one, passion of the Christ. No, no, no, no, no, no. Number three, Paddington, two. Okay, hear me. Saddington, two is in my top five. That's a shout. Number one, number one,

no country for old men. Classic. Great movie. Directed by the Cullen Brothers. Fantastic movie. Number two, The Secret Life of Walter Medi. I've heard that's great.

I haven't seen it. I've heard it's wonderful. I've not heard that. Wonderful movie. Number three, the assassination of Jesse James by the coward Robert Ford. I've never seen that one even.

I've never heard of that one. Starring Brad Pitt and Casey Affleck. Whoa. It is a Western. It is a drama. If you have like three hours and you're locked in to watch a movie, go spend time watching that one.

Okay. Number four. Muppets from space. Muppets from space. It's a slight departure from what we've been talking about. What's number five? What are you talking about?

What are you talking about? Number five, number five, number five, number five, number five changes a little bit because six and five sometimes, you know, like they alter back. It used to be the gladiator, gladiator, but great movie. You know, I think I've moved on from that a little bit. There's times where it's a fistful of dollars.

Fantastic. Some of the times when it's maybe a few dollars more. Could it even be the good, the bad, and the ugly? Great, great movie. Which I was told before I watched those movies that that was a trilogy. It was. Someone was like, that's a trilogy. No, it's not. Yes, it is a trilogy.

And then I watch the movies. The main character, Clint Eastwood, is the man with no name in all of them. the man with no name trilogy. But he's called three different names. Like they reference it almost once or twice in the movies. But there's no continuity. But that's not the point. A trilogy doesn't need to have continuity.

Yes, it does. No, it doesn't. Well, okay, okay. What does it? A little bit do. It's the thematic and general stories that are the trilogy. But it's not the same story every time. That's not, but think about the same people.

Right. I don't like that. Okay. Okay, hear me out. if you have the same characters portraying multiple different characters does that not mean something why would you have the same actor because there's separate movies because you don't want to pay that many people what are you talking about if there are separate movies you can just get another actor

why would you have the same actors for all three of those movies you like because they you like actors why do you like the actors they do a good job because they they produce something that you want in the film right and so if you have the same actors in three consecutive films where the main character is the same actor. Now, obviously you have the Unforgiven. You have High Plains Drifter. You have, um, give me a second. I'm thinking about this next Clint Eastwood one that was directed in the same time.

It's the one about the preacher, the white preacher. The pit and the pendulum. The ghost preacher. Not quite. No, no. Not quite. Ghost rider. Something like that.

Nicholas Cage is going on. Nicholas Cage goes right. That's right. That's another Clemsman film. But these thrill, the man with no name trilogies, are specifically, thematically presented

in a very similar way to the point where if you start with the first one, this full of dollars, and then you go to the next one a few dollars more and you end with the good and the bad and the ugly.

You see how there's a through line and in the good, the bad, and the ugly, it draws it all together in this wonderful scene in which I mean, many people talk about scene where you just see the guys,

it's a stare down. The graveyard scene. Yep. The graveyard scene. I'm not going to say anything more. Right. Go watch the movie. Go watch the movie.

I've only seen one and three. Anyway, so number five. You know what I was out for a few dollars more? I didn't see that one. Then how can you claim? I've only seen one and three. Because one and three were like not the same movie at all. Like there's no con-

So now you're not, so now, okay. Also I googled two. They were like, it's a totally different movie. I was like, dang it.

No, you don't really have much to do with each other. I think, I can see that thematically, although I feel like when I watch a trilogy, I feel like there needs to be a chronology. I also like that. Or at least an ordering of what you're supposed to watch them. Well, have you seen a timeline?

There are definitely more trilogies out there than that, though. I can't think of it off the top of my head. The Cullen Brothers have a trilogy as well. Okay. But it's not the same story at all. Okay. But it's something that they brought together. I've heard of the same thing about Quentin Tarantino.

He's got a specific trilogy where these movies are supposed to go together, even though they are like different stories whatsoever. That's sort of true. I mean... There's some that are like... They reference each other. They're set in the same town. I've watched almost the whole of his works.

Reservoir dogs and Pulp Fiction are the same universe. Because the characters that are related. They're related, yeah. Right. That are related. Okay. So, but maybe move away from this Marvel Cinematic Universe thing. Three.

When thinking about a trilogy. Kill Bill's not related to them. Well, I'm just saying a trilogy does not necessarily have... have to be like the same like Marvel universe. Are we a trilogy, the three of us here right now? We're a Trinity. Some way. Oh, no, let's, uh, er, let's, let's, let's, let's tie out.

Trinity and the Trinity can be two different things. I'm just trying not to get anathomode right now. We're not anathema. Yeah. Don't we're not, like outreach career will continue. We're not calling ourselves the holy Trinity of God. You just stop talking, dude. We're just getting worse and we're not.

We are not in fact saying to you. You know what I am in fact saying? Time to end the podcast. It is time to end up. You didn't let me get a number five. Fine. What's number five? And then we'll immediately end the episode

as soon as you say number five. Okay. I'm thinking. Okay. I just know that this time will come to an end. Take your time, Joe. It's okay. I do not want to misrepresent my own beliefs.

That's fine. But you get no second word after this. I understand. It's number five one. Number five movie. Movie. You got this. Didn't you say it was a fistful of dollars?

It was. But now it's not. What is it currently? With bated breath. We wait. For what follows Muppets in space. Muppets from space. Muppets from space.

I'm sorry. Please. Please. Would you just give the man his respect, please? Yeah, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'll back off. He's got us.

Terminator 2, Judgment Day.