WRFH/Radio Free Hillsdale 101.7 FM - Dale’s Dates: The Matrix Called, They Want Their Metaphor Back

Episode Date: March 8, 2026

Join Cupid and Psyche this week as they give their thoughts on the Red Pill movement in dating and marriage. 

Welcome back to Dale's Days where we're still single, love is still awkward, and bad decisions make the best stories. Today we have a very, very excited about today. Cuban, it's your day. It's your day to shine because today we need a man in this podcast to explain to us many things. Yeah, I mean, she's, man, yeah. So today is going to be maybe a little bit more serious of sort of, a tone of the show. Today we are going to be talking about the whole red pill movement and all the fun stuff that comes with that.

I mean, we will be funny. We're always funny. This movement is funny in some ways because of the ridiculousness of their claims. It would be more funny if so many people weren't like actually behold and was like, oh my guys, like this is so true guys. Yeah, the serious part is that we are

calling out this as a distortion of what a good relationship between men and women is. That's the serious part. The funny part is the claims that we're going to be looking at today because they're so out there that we have no clue as they have become mainstream to think this things. And today we have a woman that's going to give us some pointers on the Red Pill movement. Her name is Pearl Davis, infamous on the internet and famous otherwise. she started her career as a sales woman for a paper company, which is very surprising. She also had a little bit of a singing career that went nowhere. Back in like 2013 or so, you know, you remember the cover era of the internet?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was like musically and all that stuff. Covering Justin Timberlake or whatever. Pearl has a little bit of that. Okay. She comes from a wealthy background. Her parents are very well off, still married. married happily.

So, and she has acknowledged her privilege otherwise. So it's about the only good thing I can say about her. That's right. Yeah. And her sort of, yeah. Yeah. She then went on for internet fame and started doing street interviews of women and asking about relationships and all these things.

She also was a D1 athlete. So she has met a lot of people. And a lot of her arguments come from, like, you know, anecdotal evidence and whatnot. So she's going to be claiming a few things about marriage. But her background is helpful to know. Pearl is single. And if any of y'all are looking. If any of you are looking.

Well, she's no longer professing to be a practicing Catholic. So that's good. You know. And so if anyone's looking for a woman that, you know, has this view of marriage, just know that Pearl might be looking. So what do we have here, Cupid? What do you bring me? today, so about a year ago, Pearl Davis debated Trent Horn on Matt Frad's show called Pines

with Aquinas. A lot of good stuff there. Trent Horn does a lot of good work, sort of in the social commentary realm. Even if you're not Catholic, he does a lot of good pro-life stuff, a lot of good pro-marriage stuff. Yeah. Great, great speaker when it comes to atheism and that's her thing. This time, he took the heroic job of defending the Christian institution of marriage. Yeah. And he did a really good job of sort of defending it on like purely secular grounds too. We're not gonna we're not gonna just like regurgitate what he says if you want to listen

you can one either you know put yourself in harm's way by listening to the whole debate or he did a sort of recap on his channel. Highly recommend the recap. Yeah he's not recommend the debate. Yeah I listened to the whole debate earlier today and

you know I am I'm happy that I'm able to do you guys a service. Yeah. By distilling it to the point where you do not have to listen to the whole debate. Yeah, I also want to, like, tell everyone that I saved your life today by telling you not to, you know. Yeah. Just quit everything in life and go live at some monastery all by yourself. Yeah, I was, I was on, you know, Delta's website looking for flights to Mount Athos after listening to this.

Never want to see a woman again after this. Yeah. But so we've got a couple of sort of sound bites. I only have three clips pulled up. That's mostly because she just said this. the same thing over and over and over and over again. Her argument is very simplistic, but... It's based off of...

Well, one thing I do want to make sure that we do is I don't want to just sort of completely say that everything she says is, you know, on the face of it, you know, completely terrible and horrible and wrong. We're not going to demonize her. Because the whole Red Pill movement is sort of built on a couple of what I believe

to be true observations, but then it sort of takes those, blows them up way out of proportion, and then makes a bunch of, like, weird and radical conclusions based off of it. Yeah, it's kind of like the princess treatment, but the other side, you know, like, take some true assumptions like, I would like my partner to take care of me, and I would like to feel appreciated in life, and just takes it to the extreme, and you're like, it's even, it's unrecognizable after that kind of, like, morphing. Yeah.

So, this first clip is sort of a distillation of, you know, her whole point. the proposition that they're sort of debating is is marriage a bad deal for men. And so this is sort of her whole argument summed up in a sentence. Let's hear it. Marriage today is a bad deal for men, meaning that it is more likely to not work out than it is to work out. Okay. Starting strong. So there we go.

What do you think? Yeah. So there are a couple of sort of big problems with the. whole Red Bull movement. The first is that it treats marriage as sort of any other social contract where you're just going into it because of the things that it gets you. And if you're, and like, in this, in this debate sort of Perl says, you know, explicitly that she's not sort of debating us on any religious grounds, although at the time, and in the debate, she does claim to be practicing Catholic. Well, well. Although, you know, Syke mentioned that she has no longer, you know,

continued claiming that, which, you know. Yeah, that's a rabbit hole. People don't need to go into it. Like, just don't go find out why she's not Catholic anymore. It's just very bad claims. But, yes, like, I think her, the main, that, like, the key point of her argument is that the, um, the institution of marriage is less likely to work out than it is to work out. But she's treating the institution of marriage as, like, you know, a commercial contract

where, like, you and I are entering into some business enterprise. and it's more likely than it fails. Most businesses fails. So does marriage. And she's specifically saying that it's a bad deal for men. Right. She thinks that it does work out for women because of the way that the legal system is, it's easy for women sort of without a pre-up to go get married,

have a couple of kids, and then she says that they're paid to leave, which is a decent, you know, there are a couple of, you know, kernels of truth in that. The legal system. Like the sense that the parent that is left with the children has the benefit of the law is true. Like the question of like how divorce lawyers approach custody battles and how men are disadvantaged. Like that's just statistics. Yes.

But what we did see in this debate is that the statistics are much more complicated that they seem to be. Like who fights for custody? Who earns more money? Like who gives up their career to be at home kind of a thing. So like there is truth in the fact that. that many marriages that end up in divorce end up harming whoever had the most income and is not remaining with the kids. Yeah. Because they have, like, the financial burden in the relationship.

However, that does not mean marriage is more likely to fail than it is to succeed. Yeah. And she used a couple of statistics that, like, just wildly out of proportion or out of context. Yeah. So, like, you know, a number that's thrown around a lot is 50% of marriages end up in divorce. Lies. Which is a lie. that, you know, Trent brought this up.

That number is a projection from the 1980s of like what percent of divorces in the future or what percent of marriage is in the future will end up being divorces. And today I think the last number I saw was close to 35 percent. Yes. Which is much better odds than 50-50. Yes, exactly. Yeah.

And then one other thing that Pearl does is she conflates marriage with sort of all relationships. Right. So, you know, if you, you know, have children out of wedlock, don't get married. The man is still a lot of the times, a lot of the times still pays child support. Right.

That isn't a problem with marriage. That's actually a problem that is fixed in marriage. Yeah. That is just... Because you know who doesn't need child support? A married couple. A married couple. Exactly. Yes. So a lot of what Pearl does in this is she just takes various numbers and stats and

figures. And she just takes them wildly, wildly out of context. there are a couple of the studies that she herself cites that she's just like reading incorrectly and it's funny to see you know Trent point that out to her as she's like citing a study and then Trent goes oh that number sounds like this study from blah blah blah you're actually misreading what the study says

what you're gonna do sometimes numbers can be confusing especially if said on graphs yeah now but with this claim specifically like marriage is more it's a bad deal for men because it is more likely to be a failure than not If someone were operating under the assumption, like, it's a 50-50 chance that you'll have a good marriage. Yeah, I mean, I could see someone being concerned and saying, like, is this going to be a bad deal for me? But it seems to me that any marriage that ends in divorce has been a bad deal for everybody involved.

The children, the woman, and the man. Because, well, the man now has to pay child support or alimony or whatever she's claiming. But then the woman has been left on her own to raise kids and get a job. and the kids have lost both of their parents in such a way. So this first claim, although understandable, is said a bunch of assumptions that don't go anywhere. Yeah,

and we'll sort of see that in the next couple of clips. I just want to play them and then we'll... Yeah, let's listen to the clips and then maybe you say what this one and the next one are about. Yeah, so this is just her kind of, you know, further developing her argument. A lot of her argument sort of rests on the fact that,

that women today aren't like worth the trouble of marrying, which, you know, is a whole can of worms. We'll talk about it. We'll be fine. Yeah, so we'll play. I got a couple of clips back to back. Let's see what chaos unfolds. I would consider a bad deal where the risk outweighs the reward.

What I would consider a successful marriage is an obedient wife and staying together for a lifetime. To put it simply, men want sex, silence, and sandwiches from a woman they are attracted to. many men like Trent have been married for years and I have no idea what the dating market is like for young people one out of three women have had an abortion in the united states one out of four women has an STD 90% of women have been on birth control at some point in their life 80% of sexually active women will contract HPV at some point in their lifetime the average woman is 5.3 and 170 pounds on top of that men can never really know the sexual past of the woman they are marrying dating apps have made

promiscuity more accessible and easier to hide. Women have a great incentive to lie about their sexual past. The CDC reports that the average number of sexual partners for a woman is between four and eight. So, yeah, that's... That's... That's... That's... There, again, there are a lot, just so many assumptions that are... But let's go, like, systematically through this thing.

Because her first claim, like, I don't even remember... I feel like I'm, like, having outside's mercy. I just feel like, bro, what did you say? Yeah. But it seems to be like her first claim is that all that men want is like a woman that's marriage material. And that involves being obedient. Yes. And what was the other thing she said?

It was so men want to have women who will have sex with them are obedient and make them sandwiches and are I think silent or quiet. And like they're sort of like the meek housewife sort of. Which, okay, let's take Pearl in the most charitable abuse. saying like, hey, like I know a number of guys whose marriages have not gone well. They have a nagging wife that never does anything around the house or whatever. Okay. Does that mean, is it worth giving up on marriage entirely? No.

No, because sometimes you just get a bad marriage. You don't know if those guys discern marriage well, if they got to know this woman well, if they were looking for just quiet and likes to cook, but they were looking for hard work. virtuous, all this things. So, like, her whole thing about women having to be obedient and quiet is, like, well, so out of context. What do you even mean by that? Like, I mean, I suppose you want to get married, don't you?

Do you just want a woman that's silent and make sandwiches? That would be so boring. That would be so boring. Well, and that's like, that's like the least bad problem. Right. of that like I who would my children have like my my my children's mother yeah would basically just be like a living maid could be replaced which you don't want in a and something that she said that really like struck me was that a good deal is something where the risks like like the

rewards outweigh the risks that's impossible in marriage like if we're going for like the Christian institution of marriage you are a slightly. up your life to sacrifice for a flawed human being that helps you make more flawed human beings in the world. And you're just signing up your life to like sacrificially love them for forever. Yeah. The risk will never outdo the rewards. Like you will be raising children, never sleeping, fighting about where you're going to go on vacation, having general inconveniences, running a household.

Like you are already signing up for something that like is risky. you're laying down your life. So there's no way you're going to like have more rewards than risks already when you're going into marriage. Seems to be like a really harmful mentality to be like, well, what can I get for marriage? Yeah. Again, like the whole sort of supposition is is coming into this thinking that marriage is something out of which I get a bunch of things that I want.

Right. Regardless of what the other person gets. Like that sort of, you know, pithy little line that she said. is really indicative of what she thinks marriage is. Right. It's just something for, it seems to her that implicitly she thinks that marriage is an institution that is there to make men feel good.

Well, or that they have to put up with the women they marry. Yes, yeah. Like, from what, from how she says, she's like, I want you to be quiet and obedient or whatever. It's like, well, it seems like this guy doesn't even like his wife. Like, the most devoted couples I know. Like, they love spending time. with each other. They love doing things together. They enjoy getting to know each other after 20 years

of marriage. He's not putting up with her. He likes her. Yeah. And so if you want someone that is, that does everything you say, cooks for you, has sex with you, and on top of that is quiet all the time. You don't want a person. You, you, yeah. You want a machine. Yeah. And you don't want to be married because that's not a marriage. Yeah. And something that, you know, again, she sort of, she does a sort of, you know, bait and switch where all those numbers that she, you know, sort of rattled off about how terrible women are today. Also, I can't believe those numbers. One in three women has had an abortion. There's, there's, yeah, first off, there's no way there's a number, like 80% of sexually active women contract HPV. Yeah, like that sounds wrong to me. There's no way that's

true. Yeah. And also the other things, too, like 90% of women have been on birth control. What women? Okay. Like, there's a number of women that are underage that have never been on birth. Who are you talking about? Yeah. Even just based like religiously convicted women. Yeah. Who are like traditional and conservative generally don't do birth control.

And that's way more than 10% of the women. Like yeah. So first off, those numbers just are not. And also what is the birth control she's talking about? Yeah. Part of like there are medications that prevent fertility that are used for

medical things. Like maybe you have high blood sugar and your medication prevents you from having children. That would be classified of birth control depending on what she's signing. Like what is she even talking about? Yeah. So there's just a, there's no way that the numbers that she's giving are true. And second, even if they are, she's, those aren't numbers of people who are in a marriage. Right.

Which is like what the whole debate is about. Right. All these people are single. Yeah. So like if you want to say marriage is not a good deal, what you have to do is you have to look at the women who. are married. And if it is a bad deal for men, you have to ask married men. Yes.

Do you regret getting married? And that's something that Trent brought up several, several times is Pearl, most of Pearl's evidence besides the numbers that she listed off, which are not true. The rest of her evidence is anecdotal. I talked to this guy who spent like $100,000 and legal fees and he wasn't able to get custody of his kids, regardless of whether or not she's telling the truth. that is anecdotal evidence, which although like absolutely terrible and we should, you know, try our best to reform the legal system to, you know, give men a fair shake in divorce proceedings,

that's not indicative of the state of marriage writ large. Right. And it's not worth abandoning an institution for fringe bad cases. Like throughout the history of marriage, which has been for forever, there has been French cases of abuse of women abusing men, men abusing women, bad outcomes for children, bad outcomes for the couples. That doesn't mean the institution itself is worth given up on. I was listening and reading this article of a new Christian movement that's trying to advocate for children when it comes to marriage.

Because a lot of marriage policies are done for the adults when actually a lot of those policies need to be done from the children's perspective. One of the things that they were saying, like clearly we've tried a number of configurations throughout time to manage to get the benefits of marriage. without harming the kids. And marriage is the only thing that keeps the kids, you know, sane. Because marriage, because you need stability, you need commitment and kids need to see love between their parents. And they need to see, like, how imperfect people live together as an example of how to do life. And so, giving up on marriage entirely seems to be not only harming men because of some statistics that Trent mentioned, but also harming the future generation a lot. A hundred percent. Yeah, like the things that children need. And again, Trent did a good job.

He, you know, cited this. Like, the things that children need to, like, thrive and flourish growing up are things that only marriage can, you know, consistently provide. Like, they need two parents in the house who love each other and love their children, which is only, again, consistently provided for in marriage. Right. And again, sort of going back to the numbers that she cited, she was, you know, talking about how women are terrible today.

A lot of men are not much better. A lot of men are not in great shape today. Like, physically men are also... But even on the abortion side, how many men have driven a woman to get an abortion? How many men have helped the women get birth control? How many men are participating in the same culture of promiscuity that gives women HPV? Yeah. Just the thought.

And when Trent brought that up, Pearl accused him of being a simp. What is a simp? A simp. Explain this to me. I'm not a thwart. on the internet often like what's going on a simp is someone who sort of so like if a guy is called

a simp he's being accused of sort of advocating for a particular woman or women in general on the basis of him just sort of like being infatuated with them so he'll make any excuse he can like for them on their bad is this like nice guy syndrome

yeah it's like nice guy syndrome on steroid it's like okay like you know if you know pro brings up the numbers Trent says, oh, but men also do it. To Pearl, that's him sort of letting women off the hook for their bad behavior. Right. Which is not what Trent. What Trent seems to be doing to me is to say

instead of the grass is greener on the other side, there's kind of mud everywhere. You know what I mean? The grass is brown everywhere. Yes. Unfortunately, we're out of time for this week to tune in next time when Psyche and I finish our discussion of the Redfield movement. See all next time.

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