WRFH/Radio Free Hillsdale 101.7 FM - Flyover Features: Grandchild Free?

Episode Date: November 26, 2024

Emma and Sophia discuss a NYT article that mentions a recent trend-parents who realize that their adult children may never have kids. 

You're listening to Flyover Features on Radio Free Hillsdale 101.7 FM. I'm Emma Verini, and I'm here with Sophia Mann. Today, we are going to be reading some letters in the New York Times, and this article is entitled No Grandchildren in Their Lives. Readers respond to a front-page article about parents whose children don't plan to have children of their own. And this article is actually in response to another article called the unspoken grief of never becoming a grandparent. A growing number of Americans are choosing not to have children.

Their parents are grappling with what that means for them. This was written by Catherine Pearson on November 11, 2024. And the article in response was published on November 23rd. This article includes multiple letters from multiple different readers that are to the editor letters. So we're just going to go through some of these. I think it would be best to go through the first article that was published, the unspoken grief of never becoming a grandparent, and then going on to look at some of these responses.

So let's go ahead and do that. Let's talk about this article first. What did you think when you read this article, Sophia? Well, first things first, I thought it was very well written, and I also thought it was quite depressing, and it was a strange read because it showed how much, I think, people's morality and perspectives have shifted, for example, a line that really jumped out to me was when it mentioned that still would be grandparents

like the Burks may experience a deep sense of longing and loss when their children opt out of parenthood, even if they understand at an intellectual level that their children do not owe them a family legacy. When, you know, you think on an intellectual level, actually, people could argue that you should have a family legacy. I'm not trying to say that to be snarky or anything. like that. But like that's not a, that's a shifting sense of morality in the argument that your, your children don't really owe you grandchildren. I, there, you would have different opinions on that 50 years ago, you know. Yeah. Yeah, I agree. I, I, I also agree that this is a well-written article. I thought it was really well-written. I think the, the first grab the lead is really good, too.

with that emotional appeal, it says Lydia Burke 56 has held on to her favorite copy of the Velvetine Rabbit since her three children, now in their 20s and 30s, were young. And I think that's something a lot of people can sort of relate to because a lot of people have read that book when they were younger with their mom or their dad. And so I think that that probably is a little bit emotional for the readers. And I think that Pearson does a great job in sort of getting her point across about how people are feeling grief when she mentions that book, you know, because it's just about a cute, cute little bunny. Yeah. Yeah. Just for some more context about this article, by the way, it focuses on a couple of different families. So a couple different people who

want to be grand parents or who aren't grandparents who have millennial age children. And it's sort of just talking about their perspectives and how they feel about not having grandchildren and how their, how their children feel about that. Just to get back to the point that you were talking about with the, the idea that children don't owe their parents a family legacy. I don't know how I feel about that. I sort of agree. I don't feel like every person is necessarily deserving of a family legacy. You know, that's a huge ask. I mean, if you just look back through history, there are a lot of people who just have

not reproduced at all, you know? Yeah. Well, I'm not saying, like, I agree that you have to, like, have kids of your own. I'm just saying, like, a hundred years ago, intellectually, I think people would have argued you do own a family legacy. Like, it's just a shifting sense of morality. I mean, you know, I would. say that like my family does not expect that I owe them a legacy or anything like that.

And that's fine. That's not the most valued thing in my immediate family. It's, they care more about the individuals that are still living and maybe that they can do something successful rather than like maintenance of the bloodline or something like that. That sounds kind of goofy, but it's true. Like my own family does not care for me. I don't think, I don't think anybody, I don't think most, you know, older people. people who have children who are of age and able to have kids who just aren't having kids

are thinking, well, you know, what about the family legacy? I think they're thinking about passing down the morals and just like the happiness that they got from their parents. Yeah, I will say, and I can say this to call out our school a little bit, but I overheard recently a conversation from a student saying he was thinking about becoming a like member of the priesthood or whatever, but he was like, because I'm the childbearing member of the family, uh, I probably can't because I'm expected to carry on the family legacy. What does that mean, the childbearing?

I mean, I would assume it means that even though this is really personal, he said this openly, he must have another sibling who maybe can't have kids or something. And so he's expected to like have kids. Interesting. It sounded a little weird to me. As someone not like in as traditional. of like a family. I don't, I don't, I don't mean to come across as disrespectful. I was just like, that was a strange conversation, but it makes sense. I mean, you know, because just that's not,

that's not something my folks would view as like important. They'd be like, oh, grandkids are nice and all, but like, uh, you know, they care about my future rather than like others, I think, you know. Yeah. And well, here's the other thing that this article does not really talk about that much. there aren't necessarily people who don't want to have a family or it's not just about people who don't want to have a family. That's not the only reason that a lot of these older people aren't having grandchildren. It's also because people are having kids later and some people are just having a hard time finding someone to have a family with in the first place. And then the other thing is there's a lot of infertility. Yeah, exactly.

There's people that can't have kids. So I mean, you know. But this article seems to focus on people who are choosing not to have kids, which is interesting because there are a lot of people who are choosing not to have kids. But I also think that there's, there are a couple more perspectives on this issue that it doesn't really talk about very much. Yeah, yeah. Well, also the thing is, is that I hate to say this and like, it's obviously very rude and

disrespectful to, you know, say, oh, you'll change your mind in my opinion or vice versa. But one of the grandparents, I think she's never going to have grandkids, her, like, daughter is 22. And it's like, even if, like, your family is, like, in their, early 30s, all your kids, that's not an absolute guarantee that you're never going to have grandkids, you know, like my dad was like at least 35 when I was born, which is like older than some of the parents who thought they would not have grandkids, if that makes sense. And like, I think that actually my non and papa, um, who my dad's parents thought there was a chance

that they wouldn't have grandkids for a time. And I mean, you know, they just had to wait until my dad was a lot older. So that's, that is, that's the other thing, too, is that, like, for some of the families mentioned, it's like, at this point, it's not an absolute guarantee. You're not going to have grandkids maybe prepare for the possibility, but it's not a guarantee. Yeah. Yeah.

That's kind of crazy that people who are 22 are just totally writing that off, you know. But, well, I mean, again, I would never say to a 22-year-old, like, you know, oh, you'll change your nine because that'll annoy them. But it's also, like, you know, they could wait 50. years, you know, and then have kids. Like, I feel like it's fine to write them off now because in the future, and in spite of what some of the people on Twitter want to say about, like, fertility, yeah, it's harder, but you can still have kids when you're, you know, in your 30s usually.

Yeah, yeah. My parents were in their 30s when they had me, and I know, like, most of my friends, I think that was the case as well. Yeah, we both have relatively older parents. Yes. Yeah. I do think that there's sort of just anecdotally. speaking, a lot of people our age who are already starting to get married and have kids,

which is very different from the millennial generation. Yeah, we're also at Hillsdale where it's like, you know. Yeah, but I've seen this online too. Like I've talked to people online who are way younger and they also have kids. Yeah. See, I don't know what to think because like I know of people here who have literally got married when they're like 19. But then when I think of people personally, I know, like, well, the youngest I know is like 23, which. isn't that young or like they're like engaged but they aren't going to get married until after like they're done being undergraduates which is not extremely young yeah it is it is funny because like for example one of the gals mentioned i don't want to you know i don't intend to be disrespectful here but like

casey burke 22 says her parents have been supportive of the fact that she doesn't want children that's eased any guilt i would have but it's like you know i've said to my parents for now at least like I'm not interested in marriage or children. And my family doesn't want me to be in any really serious relationships. Like they would allow me, but they wouldn't really want me to while I'm like an undergraduate because like education's more important. Yeah, that makes sense. I think my parents are, I think they would definitely want me to have grandkids because they've said stuff to me before. But I've been like, I'm so young.

And also there's not necessarily a guarantee that that's going to happen even if I want that to happen. Yeah. So contrary to many, many people here at Hillsdale, parents and students, yeah. My folks want me to focus on other things and I'm okay with that. I like that I don't have to have pressure on that at this young. Like I'm calling out my local community here because like it's, I noticed that counterculturally. But yeah, I don't love when there's pressure to think about that when you're like in your early 20s when it's like, okay, on a biological level, you can wait until you're in your late 20s, you know. Yeah, or your late 30s.

Yeah. 40s is, you know, a little plus. It's still possible. It does happen, although I think there is an increased risk of your kid having certain disabilities and stuff. Yeah, yeah. I think what you get to, I mean, it varies on the person, but I think what you get past mid 30s, it's a little harder, but it's not impossible.

You are truly, usually fully infertile when you're like after 40 or something. Yeah, 50. Let's also talk about some of these letters. And I think one of the sort of underlying themes here, just like recurring themes, is pessimism. Really sad stuff. I mean, like, for example, the first letter, as a geologist, I know that climate change is real.

Human cause and accelerating. As an animal lover, I can't look at a squirrel, bird, or butterfly without knowing that all species, including ours, carry forever chemicals and nanoplastics in their bodies. Like, this is also the same reason that people hate RFK, for example. Because it's just like, this is a step too far. You can't look at a butterfly and just appreciate that it's beautiful and that God made it. No, you have to think that it has nanoplastics and its body.

I hate to sound like an annoying midwit, but also like, how would a ge-being a geologist make you more knowledgeable of climate change? Like, I could see the appeal to authority argument if you are like an environmental scientist or something like that, but I don't, don't geologists study like rock formations and stuff? Yeah, I think like... There might be a connection there, I think so if you, like, my immediate assumption would just be to look at carbon levels. Oh, yeah, that makes sense.

Rock layers and stuff like that. That makes, that does, I'll be honest, that makes sense now. But, I mean, come on now. No, I agree. I'm just saying, like, this is just, this is too much. Like, you don't want to have kids because climate change. and nanoplastics and butterflies. Like, come on now.

You don't want to create more life to counteract the death. No, I, it is, it is sad the, the pessimism. I understand it, but it's a little, it's a little sad. Thanks to my children's decision to remain child free, I do not have to fear what another generation of my progeny would have to endure on this deteriorating planet. come on. That's just that there needs to be this needs to be diagnosed or something. This is some sort of depression. I mean it actually is though because if you feel that sad about the state of the

world get off social media or like do what you can. Right exactly. If you didn't have access to like social media you literally just wouldn't even know about any of this stuff and that's not to say that just because you don't know about something that it's not a problem but but is it really really rapidly deteriorating? Yeah. When you look outside your window, does it look like everything's deteriorating, or does it kind of look normal?

Yeah. Well, that's what I find interesting, strange, too, is when I'm reading other, like, thinkers, I know I mention him excessively. It's partially because I'm taking a class on him, so I'm studying him in depth. When I think, like Jacques Alul, he was pretty pessimistic

about the overall global state of the world, and when he writes his technological society, it's kind of arguing how, in a sense, the system of just globalization and technique and technology is ultimately in his view going to probably eventually lead to the end of the world with all this focus on means and efficiency. So he has a pessimistic view of the world, but he still never thinks that you shouldn't live your life or not have kids.

So that's one thing that I find strange is that there's pessimistic authors who still seem to find joy or in the individual or local life and don't think that you should just be sad about everything. everything, even if the global state is going to lead or be eventually in a bad place, too. Yeah. I wouldn't say that I think that technology will lead to the end of the world, but pessimism is not our best option here. Yeah. I mean, I think that will happen, but I'm not going to be pessimistic about it. The world's going to end eventually anyway.

You know, might as well do what you can and enjoy what you can on this earth. Yes. there's another letter here and I don't think I understand what it is saying. So maybe you can help me here. It's the fourth one. Okay. On page three and it says, Instead of feeling despair at the prospect of no grandchildren,

I urge these vital humans to look around and find surrogate ones. Does that mean like put different people in your life who aren't grandchildren so that you aren't sad about the fact that you have no grandchildren? Yeah, yeah, it's like if you can't have biological children maybe try to be a grandparent in someone else's life. And you've been listening to Flyover Features on Radio Free Hillsdale 101.7 FM. Which actually, I think that's the best option you can do if you are not going to have grandchildren. Yeah, no, of course. And I think that this article gives you great ways to deal with the possibility of not having grandchildren, whatever the reason may be.

whether your kids decide that they don't want to have kids or, you know, something else. It definitely is true. You can look around your community, find need, serve people, stuff like that. But the way this is phrased is so awkward. I don't know. I just think it's a little strange. But I would agree that there are definitely ways to cope with being upset about not having grandchildren.

That's something I really appreciate about these letters and this article. Yeah. Because that is something that a lot of people are going to have to deal with. Like, I just can't get past the one about her choosing to not have kids because of environmental concerns. Because it's just such a different, I think I understand what she's coming from, but it's such a different perspective from me where it's like even in a world of death, maybe I would want to bring some sense of life into the world. And just, but I also think that like, I think the world,

world's going to end eventually, but I don't know when. So, you know, it's, it's less of an immediate pessimism, I think, too. Yeah. Yeah, there's another one that actually says this, too. It's the third one. My two siblings and I all chose early on to be child-free because of the environmental issues from human overpopulation. Human overpopulation. What's funny is, I think on a macro level, that's not true, as in there are issues when there's too many humans, I think, in a certain specific area of a city. Yeah. But, like, I'm pretty sure it's actually been proven on, like, a world level or macro level that, like, it's not, like, world worldwide, it's not a problem, if that makes sense. So if you're, like, an upper middle class person, which, no offense, which you probably are, if you're reading the New York Times, it's not going to be a problem.

Yeah, that's exactly true. I obviously support like human life and whatnot. I don't think that's bad. I'm just saying like, you know, there are problems, unfortunately, with overcrowding and stuff in certain poorer areas. I don't think the solution is to like kill them or anything like that. That's an evil way of doing it. But, you know, like I'm not going to deny that there's sometimes

are problems on a micro level. I could understand not wanting to have a bunch of kids if it's hard to take care of them in those situations. Yeah, this is just very Thomas Mouthis coded. Like there's going to be some sort of, you know, catastrophe and everything's just going to go down. It's like, like, okay, literally when has that ever happened? Like on a worldwide scale. It hasn't.

When has it literally ever happened? People have been talking about this kind of thing forever and it hasn't. And if you look at Europe, for example, Europe isn't overpopulated. Like there are some cities that are bustling, but like Europe isn't overpopulated. America isn't overpopulated. Canada isn't overpopulated. So, I mean, there's overpopulation in some places. but not the places where people are reading the New York Times.

Well, it's also not, I mean, it's also like poverty too. It's because I could be wrong, but I think we actually have enough food. It's just a problem of how it's distributed or sourced, like for people worldwide. I don't know. I do think it's a little funny when she talked about the overpopulation because like I said, I'm pretty sure that that on like a worldwide scale has been disproven. Yeah, I definitely think that that's a little bit of, uh, that's a little bit of a stretch. Some of these reasons just seem like excuses that aren't very legit to be honest with you.

Just like, I'm a pessimist and I am unhappy and therefore I don't want to have children. Let me find some like random pessimistic reason why I don't want to have kids. It's like, okay. I mean, I believe that you don't want to have kids. I just don't necessarily think this is the reason why. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's a strange thing to think about, I'm glad I, Honestly, see, I'm disagreeing with some of the people of Hillsdale here by saying this, but I'm okay with that. I'm glad I live in a family where, like, I'm not pressured to not have grandkids, but I'm not pressured to have them either. Yeah. Because I'm, I am glad I don't have to focus or think about that right now.

For once, I'm, for once I'm not, I'm not going to critique modernity and the idea of having kids later. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think that that that isn't necessarily a bad thing I'm going to put it on. off because, I mean, people, people want to rush you, especially young women. They want to rush young women and say, oh, you have to have kids. Now you have to find a husband. Now it's like, you really shouldn't jump into that kind of thing, especially if you're not finding a quality partner. Yeah. It's, you will ruin your life and others' lives by doing that. So yeah, that's the kind of thing

that you have to be very careful about, especially nowadays. I know of a lot. And I'm going to say this here, especially because this goes against a lot of what I hear around campus. But I will say I know a lot of people in Christian communities or of who got married young and it did not go well. Yes, that does happen. Like I know a lot. Yes. And also we live in a world where it's easier to, you're not going to die when you're 50. So we can afford to wait longer too.

Yes. Yes. And well, that's all we have time for today. You've been listening to Flyover Features. on Radio Free Hillsdale 101.7 FM. I'm Emma Verini and I'm here with Sophia Mance. Bye.