WRFH/Radio Free Hillsdale 101.7 FM - Flyover Features: How Important is Prestige?

Episode Date: October 8, 2025

Emma and Sophia discuss an article that claims many top colleges no longer have the same reputation they once held.

Welcome back to Flyover Features on Radio Free Hillsdale 101.7 FM, a witty radio show where we discuss current events and culture through the lens of an article. I'm Sophia Mant and I am here with Emma Vrini. And today we will be discussing a recent article published by the Atlantic titled The Best Colleges Aren't the Best Forever. Prestige isn't Permanent by Jeffrey Selinger. And the general overview of this piece is talking about how something I actually wasn't always familiar with before I read it, which is basically that prestige apparently used to matter more for people choosing colleges. Again, solely prestige or what it means that, oh, you went to Harvard, as opposed to like your actual job outcome or what you do with your life otherwise. And as an example, they talk about how U.S. News and World Report judges a school on its reputation, which was the most heavily weighted factor in assigning a ranking on the list. And it's still the biggest factor in the way of measuring things, which is hilarious because I don't think that's a great measurement. And they need to probably get a bit more criticism for that, in my opinion,

because so many people are like best, U.S. News and World Report, we're the best. And it's like, well, yeah, but I don't know. I don't really know if I think prestige matters as much as, you know, your happiness or what you achieve or what you accomplish through the combination of students and professors. But that's just my take. And it also talks about how recently in higher education families are less willing to pay, you know, full sticker, full price for college and are increasingly saying that they view it as less important, like in its very recent changes, such as in the mid-2010s, about 85% of parents and students viewed college as an investment in the future of the article mentions based on a survey by Sally May and Ipsos.

And then just in 2024, only 56% felt that way. So that's a drastic change. And I do wonder if some of it has to do a bit with more of the influence of people, such as the late Charlie Kirk and Chris Rufo and how they continually speak negatively of college. I mean, Charlie Kirk had a, and I'm just being anecdotal here, like huge influence and audience. And he spent a lot of time speaking negatively about the impacts of a higher education and questioning its value.

And he's someone who was very successful without a college education. You know, like they didn't get into like the political reasons or the like. But that was something I thought, I wondered a bit about because it seems like more and more people are questioning it. And even in my very short lifetime, I feel like I've heard more criticism. But that is something that interests me. I also would have been interested to hear more about what influenced politics had on these perceptions of higher education. Another thing that this article seemed to appear to me as was more of an opinion as opposed to a statement of fact. Basically, the thesis of this article or one of the theses of this article is that prestige should not be

as important as some of the other factors that parents and students are weighing nowadays when they're choosing to go to university. And I think it still stands that a lot of these top colleges, most of them that were, you know, top colleges, ranked top colleges in the 80s in the 90s are still as prestigious and are really. ranked top colleges now. There are a couple of exceptions that are noted, like the University of Illinois or Bonn, Champaign. I mean, I actually haven't even heard of that college. Purdue, heard of that one. And, you know, some of these colleges have sort of, you know, fallen out of the favor and are less prestigious. But I just have a hard time grappling with the claims that are made

in this because it's... It seems like one of the biggest factors that parents are worried about is the cost of an education. And they're sort of saying, okay, this college is not worth how much I would have to spend to send you there just for its prestige. But I don't know that we can say that that makes it worse as a university. We have to sort of isolate these different factors and look at them on their own because it still very well could be. the best option. So I think, you know, if I had all the money in the world, would I rather send my kid to Yale than a state school, you know, regardless of how competitive it would be at that university, yes, I think I definitely would. So I think sometimes when we make these comparisons,

we have to take money actually out of the equation, which is not really what this article does. It seems to have a lot of, you know, factors that it mentions. I will question that a little bit, though, because I think it depends, because, and I'll talk about this more later, but if I had kids and was thinking about college, I very well could see that I maybe wouldn't want them to go to Yale as opposed to other institutions, including state schools, because I could see them actually thriving more in perhaps a way less competitive environment or an environment where it's easier to stand out more within the school or get more opportunities. It definitely depends, but I could see reasons why I wouldn't choose that, choose an Ivy League college as opposed to others. it is interesting because it seems like they are saying parents are less willing to spend their money even adjusted for you know colleges increasing cost than they were in earlier days but i am reading a line that says families rank prestige lower than other markers of a good college such as availability of internships and research projects and the strength of specific majors so it does seem that um they seem to also be drawing their experiences in the workplace and how, you know, where they went matters less than what they did, one parent who apparently works at a big tech company, H.S. So it seems like maybe there's not as much robust statistical backing for this claim as others, but it does seem like is interviewing or talking people to people that seem to have that opinion still. You're listening to Flyoff for features on Radio Free Hillsdale

101.1.7 FM. Well, getting back to wondering if this partially has to do with, you know, culture war issues and how much, you know, the Trump administration has complained or said that Ivy League must make demands because of what they're teaching or their professors. He does mention how apparently Columbia has fallen two places in U.S. news this year, making it the lowest ranked of the ivies. And there's no, like, direct data, but he does talk about how, you know, it was in the news a lot for all the protests and whatnot. I would assume he's referencing like the Jewish situation where, you know, there's lots of pro-Palestinian protesters and there's also a lot of Jewish students and faculty at Columbia. So there's just a lot, a tense amount of tensions. And he does, the author does seem to think that actually could have had a direct impact specifically cultural and world events on Columbia. Whereas, you know, at University of Alabama, he mentioned someone chose that.

place because it seemed like fun and they're talking about sororities and parties and it seems less competitive. So it does seem like there is a direct cultural draw to some of these places as well and that apparently teenagers are more likely to apply to both public and private schools in and out of state. So it's like there's a wider net that they are casting. So do you have any thoughts on that? One thing I really like that it talked about was how big of a factor the pandemic was in people's choices and universities. I know that it certainly played a role in where I decided to go eventually. So what it says is the number of students heading to the flagship public universities in the South has swelled, especially since 2020,

in part because some of these schools had fewer restrictions during the pandemic than campuses elsewhere. A huge component for me when I was applying was where can I actually get a tour and interact with students where I don't have to put on a mask and make sure I'm vaccinated and, you know, all the concerns that went along with the COVID-19 pandemic. And some schools were actually shut down. I mean, I remember when I was applying, there were schools that were considering shutting down in, it would have been fall of 2022 for that semester. And that was like later into the pandemic. most of the people who had wanted to get the vaccine had gotten it. And ultimately, I think that was, I would say, one of my top three factors in choosing where I decided to go. Yeah. Well, also didn't, like, Hillsdale get into trouble with Gretchen Whitmer or something because she probably doesn't love our politics, broadly speaking. And then we decided to still have, like, a graduation ceremony.

And she was like, you're breaking the laws of the state. state or something like that too? What's crazy is that Hillsdale wasn't even especially conservative when it came to COVID-19. They definitely closed down and they didn't hold classes and they did have people on Zoom. So, I mean, they definitely did sort of bend to the will of the state when it came to that stuff. I'm not saying that that just didn't happen. But yeah, I think that there was a point at which Hillsdale was like already. we've done this. We're seeing that not a lot of people are dying and we're going to open back up.

And yeah, it did come under fire for a little while because of that. Yeah, I mean, obviously, I stand by the school's decision, but I thought that was a funny story that I vaguely remember. Well, yeah. And I mean, at the beginning of the pandemic, not many people even knew what it was. I mean, we didn't know how deadly it was. We just knew that there was this new virus going around. And obviously, when you don't know what it is, you want to close down. But after a while, when you realize what the death rates are and that it's not harming young people, schools should open back up. Yeah.

No, I agree. People can be like, oh, you were so fearmongering, you're giving to fear or whatever, but I don't regret being pretty strict about pandemic except at first when like I couldn't know or know anything. And I don't know. Maybe I'm just a natural slave or I was too dumb to find that out sooner than like the crazy people, like, you know, the, uh, Infoors, people of the world that were always like, it's fake.

But, you know, once I realized, okay, there's like no way this is going to kill me or negatively affect me in any manner. And I really don't need the shot. You know, I'm on vaccinated from COVID because, like, I don't know. I don't think that's going to affect me too much. Then I was like, yeah, I'll just be chilling. You know, this article also, especially at the end, illustrated something that really bothered me. And I was not familiar with it didn't really realize going at Hillsdale where I think in some ways, here it is competitive, but not in the extreme that a student interviewed for the piece who goes to

Columbia said, where he said, you know, it's like he won the lottery when he got accepted to Columbia. But once he went on campus, you know, he was just in this, it sounds like this hellish system where it's just a wait list so long. He wouldn't get in until he was a junior and senior, if at all, to a class he really wanted to take. And then, you know, he wanted to do research, but this professor did not allow any undergraduates to work. And he says the core curriculum was a grind. Well, I think our core curriculum is probably way bigger than theirs is. Who knows?

But he also said that the competition to even get into clubs was intense. And that's wild for me. Like, and confusing, because it makes sense if there's competition to be like a leading, you know, member, like a president and vice president or on the board. But wait, you can't just like get into a club. That's insane if that's actually true. I don't like that. Well, the thing that I found odd was they were talking a lot, this article, sorry, was talking a lot about a lot of the intra-collegiate, that's a really bad way of putting it. But all of the sort of competition that happened at these schools for different positions

and to be in different clubs. And one of the things I was wondering is, why don't these students just pursue opportunities outside of the clubs? college as well. Like, you can go and try to get an internship somewhere or, you know, do volunteer work or join a club that's outside of the college. So I don't exactly understand why there's so much emphasis placed on how hard it is to do things within the college. For instance, when I was a freshman, I think I was pretty focused on getting an outside internship. And that didn't really have a lot to do with what I was doing in college at the time, you know? Well, that's one thing that also confused me is like I'm empathetic of like I like here.

Like if you want to join a club, you can join a club and it's not hard. But like, you know, you can do an internship on your own without a ton of help from the college. I did have help from Hillsdale as in like I was recommended and heard about for a journalism internship I did like good opportunities from my professor. And I, you know, went to career services a handful of times. But like, I'll be honest, that probably did help me get into the specific rather competitive one I've got into. But, like, it wouldn't have been impossible for me to have gotten an internship on my own without college. See, I don't want to be mean-spirited, but it does seem odd. Like, also, you literally live in New York City.

I don't know. Like, I feel like I'd want to just, you know, join a book club or something that's just join a random community group. If you actually can't get into anything on college. I mean, I mean, he transferred to the University of Minnesota, the piece says, and he loves it because, you know, he says he's fine. His course is just as challenging. He works in a research lab. His classmates, even, said, are more welcoming, cheaper tuition, and he doesn't have to claw the next thing. He can more easily get the opportunities he wants. So it sounds like it was a great decision. But that was something that I thought was a little bit odd, too. But, I mean, I don't know. I will say that, like, granted Hillsdale actually is objectively, like, getting and is pretty prestigious. But I would 100% like, you know, rather go to Hillsdale than an Ivy League, even if the ivies have more supposed like respect and prestige to a lot of people than here because I just know it's such a better fit for my like personality and interests and people I'd like to be around and the like.

And I really do think it's an insanely high quality education here. And I don't feel like it's any, any necessarily worse. But, you know, it does interest me that he says he doesn't find his classes any lower in quality than a state school, but I could maybe believe that because a while ago, we also talked me and Emma about how apparently even at some of these institutions, it's like this weird, specific, irrational type of technized intelligence that gets people into Ivy League schools that in probably unethical things because, like, apparently a lot of them can't read very well or really understand literature, which is insane to me.

Like, one's ability to read and slowly process things is just getting worse and worse. You're listening to Flyover Features on Radio Free Hillsdale 101.7 FM. One of the things I found crazy in this article that I sort of had a somewhat of an idea about, but not entirely, was Northeastern's U.S. ranking, which went from 162 to 466. their acceptance rate dropped 70% and it's now at less than 6%. And it says suddenly Northeastern is looking pretty prestigious. So, I mean, how did they do that? They cultivated values that says that go beyond prestige. I think that's something that Hillsdale tries to do.

It has done. And they have a co-op program that emphasizes experience in the workplace. And so that's really gotten them ahead, which is just I was very surprised to learn that. And another thing that I think this article didn't really mention that that's worth mentioning is scholarship. The reason that a lot of kids decide not to go to an Ivy League and instead to go to a less prestigious school is because they're offered a lot of money to do so. And it looks really good on your resume to say, I got a scholarship to go to this place, you know? And I think that's also something Hillsdale does very well. Hillstow gives very generous scholarships, too.

I think, like, most of their students, I'm not sure how much. I think the average student aid is somewhere around, like, $20,000 a year, something like that. So, and I mean, that's not on top of, that's not including scholarships that you can get by, you know, being a student joining the Winston Churchill program or, you know, the George Washington Fellowship or, you know, there are music scholarships. So there are all these different types of scholarships that students at Hillsdale can get. And I think that is something that the Ivy Leagues and more highly ranked schools do not really do at all. Yeah. And it's just, it's such a bizarre dichotomy because I don't know if I would have been accepted,

but like I did consider places like Columbia or Iowa. or the like and you know I don't know what I would have thought because there genuinely are incredible renowned professors and stuff there but I'm very ambitious but it seems like I am in a different way than people at Columbia where they just want to become like I don't know global world leaders in the new power structure or something like that and I'm just like let's just talk about some like Murlumpan-Tian perception and what is the nature and mode of being or something like that, you know. I don't know. I like the little nerds here, the little right-wing Christian nerds here. Yeah, it's really odd, though, because I think it kind of shows the further divergence in separation

from society because now a lot of people hate or will look down on you if you went to like an Ivy League or honestly, even college in general. And then the Ziappi's stream of like, oh, the people that don't go to college are like idiots and we shouldn't interact with them or this kind of, you know, it's, it's like more split. Like, I don't think I ever see. a world where like Harvard isn't still really, really selective. It's just people are more and more likely to criticize it because they disagree with its educational. The general views may be expressed by the institution. Do you kind of feel that way? Like if you maybe broadly speaking, especially, you know, are a liberal and aren't the biggest fan of Trump, you're going to probably like Harvard

more or, you know, be more inclined to view it positively. And there's a lot of people in the U.S. that feel that way. So it's still going to exist. I don't know. It'll probably be weaker, but I would be surprised if more legacy institutions, just like the media goes away because I think there are a lot of people that that's where they like to get their news or what they like to look up to. Yeah, I think there's definitely a political aspect to it. I think like you mentioned earlier, parents are looking at these schools and parents tend to be more conservative than their children. That's just the way it is. And they don't want to send their kids to a school that is very left leaning.

You're listening to Fly Every Features on Radio Free Hillsdale, 101.1.7 FM. I'm Emma Verini, and I'm here with Sophia Mange.