WRFH/Radio Free Hillsdale 101.7 FM - Hart on the Hill: Education on Education

Episode Date: February 4, 2025

This week, Micah Hart discusses school choice with Frances Floresca, an education policy analyst and reporter.

Welcome back to another episode of Heart on the Hill. As always, I'm your host, Michael Hart. And this week, it's well, it's a great week to talk about education because it's national school choice week. So that's what I'm going to be doing today. So without further ado, let's get into this. We're going to have a little bit of an interview today. So I'm excited to let you hear this and hear more about why students need choice and why families need choice in education. Today I am joined by Frances Floreska.

Francis is an educational policy analyst and reporter and her work has been seen in a lot of places the Washington Examiner, the Daily Signal, the Daily Wire, and so many more. She has advocated for and reported on school choice and it's very fitting this week that we're having this discussion because it's National School Choice Week. So thank you so much for joining the show.

Thanks for having me. You're welcome. So first off, I would just love to start with as it is National School Choice Week. I mean, we have a new president in office, President Trump, and he has signed some executive orders on education. So what does this mean for different states and how does this process of school choice now start in certain states, especially with the president really willing to allow it to happen?

It's been a crazy school national school choice week. And we've had debates around the country with different school choice legislation. But then there's also Trump's executive order, which is asking different departments to push for priority for school choice programs. And I think a big one is for like military families and ensuring that more families can get that kind of access. And even if I am a school choice advocate, I'm also military wife. And school choice for military families is such a huge deal because they're worried about being stuck in their failing government school or school that doesn't work for them. So allowing more funding to be freed up for families to be able to have a kind of opportunity is so helpful.

And then at the federal level two, we had several members of Congress introduced legislation that would give more families opportunities for school choice. That would be related to tax credits and families and individuals can donate to that. And they can get full tax credits back. And it does give more of those families and more state's power to give more school choice to different families. Yeah. And so on the lines of school choice, and looking at how they affect families.

Obviously, a part of it also is what the government is doing, like you said, with Trump and his executive orders. But also Trump's nominee for Secretary of Education, Linda McMahon, she's up, obviously, for the position. Some people say she's not qualified. What do you think makes her uniquely qualified to take on the education sector? And do you think that she would abolish with Trump's effort that abolish the Department of Education and just return power to the states? Look, when you're the secretary of the Department of Education, and hopefully she is approved, it's more than just education, and education's a really big part which she does have education experience, being on a school board in Connecticut, and also for a college board as well.

And she is also someone who has worked in business, and people who work in business, especially when they're leaders and CEOs, and her, especially with World Wrestling Entertainment, and transforming that into a global powerhouse and championing small business policies by cutting government red tape as the small business administrator during the Trump administration, that brings unique qualifications to transforming education. Because we don't just need reformation in education. We need transformation in education right now. And with the Department of Education, she's going to find ways to transform education of the country and return power back to the state. Now, I think some people don't fully understand the issue of school choice and what it means throughout this country. So when we're talking about being able to pick what school a child should go to and their family is doing that, what should be used to calculate a school's success and how can parents tell if a school is completely failing?

Do you think that we should have nationalized test or what is a good parameter for parents to look at and say, yeah, that school's doing well and that will fit my child? I mean, everyone has a different idea of what success means to them. And sometimes it's going to be students who are succeeding and doing well, students who are motivated to learn and have really good test scores. That's one factor. But then for some of them, it's also school safety. As we see, we've seen, unfortunately, school shootings in this country. And for families, they want their kids to be in a safe environment

that likely won't have those school shootings. So they're trying to look for those options as well. And then another one is what kind of learning do they want their kids to have? Because every child is different, and not all of them necessarily do well on certain exams and tests. Some of them might be doing better in a homeschool or a micro-schooling environment. And there are just so many different options and opportunities in different school choice programs that can help families in very different and unique ways. Now, when looking at where to send a child, should schools be allowed to teach whatever they want within a school choice framework, for instance, should a school be able to teach CRT and gender ideology in a school choice world where parents could say just decide where to send their kids?

Is that something you've seen people argue about already? People definitely argue about this. And I would say, let's look at Florida, for example, where in the school, Governor Ron DeSan, has been working to eliminate gender ideology and certain ideas that harm children. And then parents want those options to have kids go to school that's probably more accepting of that. However, in my view, and what I understand is that no matter where kids go to school, it is seen as child abuse, especially when they start learning things like gender ideology, that could change and harm their bodies.

So that's kind of where I draw the line, but I think there should be more flexibility and learning options. I mean, look, if a family wants to kind of like teach their kids CRT or something, maybe that's something that's up in the air. But it's an issue that I know a lot of people have been discussing. I know people on both sides are concerned about that. So it's something that I would love to see further discussions on as well. Do you think that there, or have you at least heard of further discussions on that happening anytime soon? Or is that something that's just going to take a little time as more and more school choice? I've read some articles about parents who started pulling their kids out of the public school system and started homeschooling them.

That's because they didn't like how they taught about, for example, some black history or Latino history. So I've heard some of it, but it hasn't been as prominent lately. And so obviously school choice, as we've been discussing, allows students to go where they, their families where they see fit. So do you think charter schools are prepared to take more students if they need to? And can schools handle this competition? What kind of happens to schools that start failing, start losing kids? What does the process look like in these situations? So with different schools starting to lose kids, I can see them, like, look, at first, they're going to be those.

schools that end up unfortunately failing their kids. And in the public school system, what's very interesting is that when a school starts to fail, it gets more money. But when a private school or a charter school starts to fail, they close down. I just think of it as a very free market mindset where the best schools succeed and the worst schools close. But why is it that the government schools, public schools, that are failing kids get more money and these and just letting it I'm letting it go because I think those kids like especially with

open enrollment school choice I think they should be able to access different other other options within the public school system as well instead of being stuck in their failing public school and if that failing public school is failing as I said it should probably close down I'm Michael Hart and this is Radio Free Hillsdale 101.7 FM and today I'm joined by Francis Floreska and we're talking about school choice. It's national school choice week. So it's been a big week in all things education. So I also want to look at now too, like, what do you say? I think there's a lot of arguments about equality in education and fairness. And it seems to me at least that if you have school choice, it's more fair for students of different income brackets and families that are in different zip

codes. What's your assessment of all of that? Especially from the left side of things, people who argue against them. They're like, we need more equality and education and stuff when actually this exact system probably does bring that. Unfortunately, there are those people who are opposed to school choice because they're worried about equal standards and equal opportunities because our country was found and had a lot of opportunities for public education in the past. But guess what? Public school does not work for every single child. And they always call for more funding for these different government pools, but the success and outcomes don't necessarily show for that. So I found that increased

competition and not just increased competition, but more education options and those opportunities will help improve education overall for everyone, no matter their race, no matter their class, no matter their income and no matter their background and who they are. I've seen kids be able to get out of their public schools. And when I lived in Nevada, I saw this very often. A girl I heard about and even met, she was being bullied in her school and she was struggling in her public school, but she was able to get out because of a school choice program that gave her family hope. And now she's a very confident person. She's about to graduate high school. And she's just excited for the future of her opportunities next in her life.

And we've kind of talked about and touched on that point of like students struggling. And now I was reading a recent Wall Street Journal story describing how students are really falling behind in things such as reading. Only 60% of fourth graders hit that basic or better reading level in 2024. What should schools be doing to better prepare their students? Because it seems like it's an issue as we've talked about on multiple fronts. Right now, just the scores as you said are. absolutely horrifying, absolutely horrible. We haven't gone back to pre-pandemic scores, and even some

of the scores have gotten worse than even before the pandemic. And the next thing we need to do is ensure that our kids are able to read. And I think we need to transform the way kids read in school, because when I was a kid, I remember enjoying reading. But the older I got, but the more required readings we had to do and the different ways we had to think about reading, it didn't help us with reading. It just ended up making us be bored of reading. I'm not the only one. I've talked to my friends and I've seen this firsthand with a lot of my friends who were voracious readers in the past. And I just think it's trying to find new ways to teach reading to kids and make it more exciting. And same with mathematics. Like let's add more life applications to mathematics because

when you add those life applications, it just makes subjects more exciting. Yeah, and to go off of that a bit, I mean, I think a lot of issues, too, can come from technology. Technology can be good and it can also be bad. Do you think that, I mean, we've seen some states already pushing legislation on this type of stuff where, like, you're trying to prohibit even technology and making sure students actually pay attention. Do you think that's a lot of a part of this whole thing? I most certainly think it is. And, you know, I am pro-free market, but even my pro-free market friends have been advocating for banning cell phones and devices in the classroom because it's stifled learning and creativity. There have been studies going around how kids are losing that creativity and critical thinking skills to help prepare them for the future.

Yes, we have a world full of technology and there are other ways to help prepare our kids for the future in this world. but that's going to start with critical thinking skills, being able to be creative, and being able to participate in what you're doing in school right now. Those are going to help you in the future. And kids, look, I don't give my son, who's two years old, much screen time at all. The only screen time he gets is when he talks to family. And I just let him play and let him be creative. And that's something that kids need more.

They don't need to be in front of an iPad all day. They need to play. They need to explore. and they need to learn. Yeah, and a lot of what you're saying just brings me to the point of also looking at trade schools and schools that are a little bit out of the box

and how they approach learning. Do you think we really need to be supporting more of those as well? And making sure students know there are other options than just going to college that they can do a lot more than just that. And there are things they can do if they're not doing great in one subject,

but they might excel in another one. Our world is changing so much School choice applies not just to regular K-12 education. It also applies to college. And with a workforce changing, college is not going to be meant for everybody. And it's also very expensive to begin with. And I can see a whole world changing where we have opportunities for kids such as better trade schools, more trade schools, more freedom to choose those learning environments so they can prepare to get a job. or they have apprenticeships where they prepare to go to a certain career.

I mean, I've been seeing this with the legal careers, where they're starting to have more apprenticeships for the law field. And, of course, law school is very expensive to begin with, and it's not for everyone. But I know people who enjoy law by just being involved in the process. And then colleges, like, let's be fine with having kids go to community college. Sometimes community college has a little more freedom. and flexibility because they don't have to do with as many stringent rules and regulations. I mean, they still have to deal with some of them, but because they are smaller and don't have as

many students, they have a lot more freedom to teach their kids how they want and give them those kind of opportunities to succeed. You're listening to Radio Free Hillsdale 101.7 FM. I'm Micahart, and today I'm joined by Frances Floreska, and we're talking about school choice and education policy. So I, I, I want to talk about you were just discussing the like evolving education, how things obviously have changed a bit. Now, one big thing with an education we've seen recently is AI and the use of AI. What are your thoughts on how that is being used?

Do you think there is a place for an education? How do you think that even affects, I mean, even school choice and like, are there schools that you think are going to lean more heavily on it? Ooh, this is a good question. And as someone who is a daughter or someone who is a tech nerd, I'm very excited for a lot of the advancements from AI. And I think they have its place to help students learn, ask questions, and think critically. But the unfortunate thing about AI is that students can be prone to cheating as well as AI having biased answers.

Like I put in some props sometimes. Sometimes AI would not answer the question or respond in a way that did not. necessarily float in a way that would be responsible or leaning one way or another. So there's definitely concern about the bias from AI as well as students cheating. But if this education system can actually transform its way for students to learn AI and students, I think there should be some kind of guidance from the school district or school systems on how these kids can use AI. I think that would be very helpful for children in the future. But we should be worried about AI, but also be open to learning more about it. Yeah. And you used, I think, a key word. I think I heard

there. You said, like, if they can, the school system, like, can change to that stuff? That's another big question I have is, is can school systems adapt? Do you think they're able to? Do you think there is issues with teachers unions getting involved in stuff and other groups that have prohibited this change in education? I mean, in certain states, too, where they're maybe either trying to get school choice or trying to move forward, but there's a lot of pushback. I'm thinking of maybe like Texas I've heard as an example. Yeah. So a lot of the pushback in Texas is actually from a lot of rural lawmakers and those supported by the teachers unions. What people are saying with rural school choice is that they are worried that rural school choice will harm

the public schools in that area, as well as possibly, and some of these lawmakers also say there isn't enough school choice in the rural communities, which, you know, it doesn't really hold water, which is it at this point, because they're kind of two different arguments, kind of contradictory at this point. And I think the same issue is here in Georgia, where I am, because lawmakers questioned it because of how rural this state is, but there are, because with the education savings, accounts, it allows more flexibility. So you can start up your own micro-school. You can homeschool your kids. Use these funds for homeschooling. You can use these funds for microschooling, create your own learning environment, or send your kids their private school. And sometimes,

depending on the state, they can use their funds to send their kids to do different activities in the public school system as well. And I have one more question for you. I just want to know, what are your hopes for the next four years with this? new administration with education policy? What are you hoping happened throughout this country? More importantly, probably just in certain states than at the federal level, but at these, in these certain states. I would absolutely love for the Department of Education to be abolished. But if it can't be abolished, I would love to see more power back to the states, the preschool choice, giving more opportunities for families to succeed, just returning that kind

of power back to the state, less focus. on certain ideologies and certain tests. I mean, tests have their place, but sometimes students are just tests to death, and it's not helping them succeed. So just giving more flexibility to the states and for families for them to have different learning environments. And then I would love to see more opportunities

to push back against gender ideology and critical race theory in schools because they're not helping kids. They're not helping kids. innovate learning. In fact, because kids are so impressionable, it does harm them. But then I'd love to see more advancement in technology in schools, but also kind of go back to the basics at the same time. You can advance technology and ideas in schools that still go back to the basics, math, science, reading, and literacy. Because I have, look at Louisiana, for example,

where their test scores improved because they decided to focus on those basics. Couldn't agree more. Thank you so much for taking time to join the show. I greatly appreciate it. Thank you so much. Have a great day. You too. Education is so important and it's so crucial that we make sure that all kids,

no matter where they live, how much money their family makes, no matter any of these circumstances, that they can get a quality education that is best for them. So thank you so much for tuning in to today's episode. I really appreciate it.