WRFH/Radio Free Hillsdale 101.7 FM - James Dickson: Michigan Residents Fight AI Data Center Projects

Episode Date: April 7, 2026

Michigan residents are pushing back as lawmakers introduce a moratorium on new data centers in the state. James Dickson, a Michigan-based journalist, previous Swing State Reporter for the New York Post, and host of the James Dickson Podcast, offers a clear-eyed perspective on the battle unfolding. He joins WRFH to discuss. From 03/30/26. 

This is Radio Free Hillsdale 101.7 FM. I'm James Jawski, and with me today is James Dixon, a Michigan-based journalist, previous Swin State reporter for the New York Post, political commentator and host of the James Dixon podcast. Well, thank you for coming on, James. It is a pleasure to have you. We just start with telling the audience just a little bit about what you do, your background, and what has brought you on to the topic of AI data centers in Michigan.

Absolutely. First of all, thank you so much for having me on. And yeah, so, you know, I'm a long-time journalist in Metro Detroit, also a Republican in Metro Detroit. And so I'm just fascinated by these things like data centers. It's not every day that you get an issue in Michigan that conservatives and liberals, Democrats and Republicans agree on. But there's pretty much. very little taste for data centers among the people of Michigan. And yet the people who lead Michigan, either, you know, Governor Gretchen Whitmer trying to, you know, push them on it. Jocelyn Benson, her husband's in the data center business, would benefit from it. So we have one of these interesting dynamics where the thing that's wanted by our leaders is not wanted by our people. Yeah.

And for someone who has never really thought about a data center, you know, isn't in that business, how would you describe it? And how is it connected to AI? Yeah. So data centers are basically, you know, it's kind of like there's these server farms,

you know, all over the place where you'll see an entire office park and it's just servers. And this is basically that at an even larger level. And so this provides the data that, that big AI companies run on. And so, you know, this is very energy intensive. And there's been studies out there, a Bloomberg study of the issue found that when there is a data center near you,

one of these AI data centers, these newfangled things that they have to have everywhere, when one of those comes to your area, you can expect your electric bill to go up by about three times what it was prior to. So there's not just an issue of what they're using, but they're not paying for what they're using the average person is. And I think that's why it's become so controversial. And is this something that is typical of all data centers or just some of them, the fact that this price is being offloaded onto the residents?

This is how it's gone. Typically, you know, throughout the country. When data centers come to town, bills go up. And so Michigan already has several dozen of them, about four dozen of them. But what scares people is now you're seeing tax breaks applied to these things. Now you're seeing the pressure of state government and even the governor's office applied to these things. And now it's happening with non-disclosure agreements. And so anything that's done outside of or specifically designed to avoid scenarios,

where the people who are affected by it get any say in it. And so they're going, they're going, I say that to say they're going out of their way to avoid the public being able to weigh in on it. And I think that's what scares people is that no one's really asking them. And what are some other effects that data centers can have other than just the, you know, blunt electricity bill going up? You know, they could also use quite a bit of water, which in Michigan, you know, we're very proud of our Great Lakes. It's, I mean, one of them is literally named Lake Michigan. That's why the

state is named Michigan, because the lake is named Michigan. So that's how seriously we take these things and water and freshwater and all that. I mean, 20 years ago, Nestle, you know, a company that sells bottled water, that was controversial, whereas these data centers will use even more water than Nestle ever did. And so as residents of Michigan, we all feel the need to be stewards of our Great Lakes and to elect stewards of the Great Lakes. And for the water consumption, has there been any studies on some of the older data centers really looking at the environmental impacts of this?

Yeah, the environmental impact is massive and especially of what they're trying to build. I mean, we're told that if you don't get in the data center business, the future is going to leave you behind. I don't ever remember hearing Sam Altman say that if I can't build this specific data center and this cornfield in Michigan, that AI as a whole is going to be left behind, or that these companies which are self-interested entities would let themselves be left behind. I think this is more nimbism, which is even if I accept that it has to happen somewhere, do I want it to happen in my backyard? Not necessarily. So there's this Project Stargate that is either coming up or has already happened. What is Project Stargate?

Yeah, Project Stargate, that's the big one. And I believe Celine. So that's right outside Ann Arbor, right? So that's one of the Ann Arbor suburbs. There's also the Clinton River that runs through that, which everyone's super proud of in the Saline area. And that's another one of these things where there's non-disclosure agreements. It's involved at, you know, the state government level.

And it's another one of these. It's kind of exhibit A of what's going on with data centers writ large where this was never presented as, hey, the community, would you like to weigh in on this? this, it's more, here's what's happening. And even when they tried to stop it, they weren't able to stop it because ultimately the threat of litigation with these multi-billion dollar companies, local communities often will try to avoid that. And that's ultimately what happened in Celine. Yeah. And I was doing a little bit of research just before this interview on data center numbers, and according to a paper last December, the states that have the most

data centers at the moment would be Virginia, Texas, and Georgia, as far as ones planned, at 595, 442, and 285 respectively. And then when it comes to Michigan, there's a little over a dozen. Why is it that even though Michigan has such a small percentage of the data setters being put up, it has become such a battleground over the issue? Well, the left sees it as data centers. So right now, Governor Gretchen Whitmer, you know, the green energy plan, essentially if nothing changes in Michigan law. Michigan's biggest utilities are going to have to run on 100% renewables. So we're talking wind and solar and maybe some nuclear by 2040. So we're less than 15 years out from that at this point. So on one hand, we're being told a story of you use too much energy and we have to find all these ways to use less. Then you have these data centers come up which can use as much energy as a small town, just the data center itself.

And not only do they come to your area and consume a lot, but they never run on the solar panels and windmills that the entire state is supposed to run on. So we're told that in less than 15 years, 10 million people, a state of 10 million people can run on solar and wind, but there's not one single data center that does. Oh, and by the way, we're also going to build a bunch of data centers. And so what we have here, whether it's left and right, whether it's conservatives trying to protect the rural nature of their community, what you have is a lot of people who feel that they never elected anybody to bring these things here. You may have even elected people to stop this kind of thing, but no matter what you want, they keep growing. This is Radio Free Hillsdale 101.7 FM. I'm James Jawsky and I'm talking with James Dixon.

So James, would you say, or in your mind, is this issue really about the data centers themselves then? Or is it about how it's being treated? I think it's both. I think it's both. With our governor right now, Gretchen Whitmer, she has a habit of these high-handed tactics. Same thing happened with Goshen.

They're trying to build EV batteries, electric vehicle batteries, and the Big Rapids area. And, you know, same deal, where, you know, massive state money, taxpayer money is going to be given to this project. Constitution says state can't own the company.

So it's called an investment, but really it's just handing you big bags of cash to set up shop in the cornfields where the people in those areas don't want you there and how these things happen outside of what the public wants, specifically over the public's objections, and how a lot of it will be handled with nondisclosure agreements, so the public can't even be brought in as a partner. It seems that government is operating for its own logic and with its own means

and not as a steward of the 10 million people or the people of any particular community. And to play devil's advocate, are there any benefits that come with the construction of these data centers that we see? I mean, they claim that there's some amount of jobs that are going to be created. It's typically a small number of jobs.

I think I don't care what a business is trying to do per se. It's just why do you need my money to do it? I think the tax breaks are a problem. I think the non-disclosure agreements are the problem. Like when ICE, when they bought a facility in Romulus, they didn't really need to ask for help. They just said, we're buying the building and here's what we're going to do in the building. That, to me, would be fine. But when you need a bunch of help from the government, when it draws on a lot of natural resources, that's when it is appropriate for a community conversation. and rather than have it, a lot of people think it's easier to do an end run around the community,

which is when these things get controversial. And so what has the response been? Like, what policies have been put in place or are being proposed to rectify this? You know, there's some lawmakers who are trying to pursue a one-year moratorium on data centers. I think it's a nice idea. I don't, you know, know how much will be achieved in one year. year. I think this is perhaps best left in local hands, right? Like local communities have the

means to stop it. I think the problem you run into is when a local community says no, but the governor, you know, the governor and the state government say we're going to, you know, partner up with this company and essentially overrule you as a local community. You know, these things don't tend to pop up on a city like Detroit that has massive amounts of open land and could actually use the help. So the form and the function of it is what people find alarming. And here's the thing. You want to be a member of a community?

Be a neighbor in the community and neighbors don't do things like this. As far as the next election then, how do you see this topic affecting the results? is this something that's going to be only limited to voting in in the rural communities? Or is there actually a response going on in the cities as well over this? You know, I would say Democrats and Republicans don't like it. But the city, you know, our main city, Detroit, this hasn't really come up, you know, to be on their, you know, their portfolio yet. I think it will get there.

I mean, I live in Southfield, two miles north of Detroit. We have data centers, you know. it's not necessarily a big deal everywhere you go. It's just do you respect the people there? Do you talk with them? Do you try to present as a neighbor or do you just go over their head? I think how they were always told as kids, right? From the time I was a kid, I was told us not what you say.

It's how you say it. And so I think they have to work on what they say and how they say it. But I think the biggest problem is how. I think bedside matter matters to people. And if this were presented differently, if they came in like neighbors, they would be received as neighbors. This is Radio Free Hillsdale, 101.7 FM. I'm James Jawski, and I'm talking with James Dixon. So James, what's going on with these data centers as far as the overreach, you know, the overpowering of local communities without a dialogue?

Is this something new to, you know, the administration, or is this really part of a lawn train of abuses that has been going on. Well, with this particular governor, this is how she's tended to operate. You know, they didn't ask people in Big Rapids about Gosha. And they just kind of tried to bring it in until it ended up being essentially a local revolt where the local board and green township, green charter township, was recalled and then replaced with new people. And so, you know, you call people's bluff.

eventually they'll rise to the challenge. And so I also don't remember, you know, I'm 42. I don't know the whole history of Michigan, but I can't think of any time I've ever remembered hearing prior to 2019 when Whitmer took office of all these people signing non-disclosure agreements to work in government. You think of that as more of a private sector thing.

So what the heck are they doing signing non-disclosure agreements? There's this idea that government can operate in its own way and by its own logic, and they don't even have to check with us. And I think that's new. That is a feature of Governor Gretchen Whitmer, and that's all wrong. And I think you're going to see some real pushback on that this year when we get to pick new leaders in Lansing. And could you explain what exactly a non-disclosure agreement is?

Yeah, so a non-disclosure agreement. So say I have Project X that's coming to town Y. You know, I won't be, if I sign this agreement, so here's what they do. So if I sign the agreement, then I get to remain privy to the details about who the company is, who's behind it, what they're hoping to achieve, that kind of thing. And what's funny about these is people sign these nondisclosure agreements when pretty much all of these related projects, we found out what's happening because they're still FOIA laws. So I don't even know what they really achieve.

But this idea that, you know, that I am a government, I represent the people of my community, but I can't talk to them about this project. It's unseemly and it's not something that's really existed until very recently in Michigan. And this kind of secrecy, is this something unique to the state of Michigan or has it also been going on in other states? Couldn't tell you too much about other states. I'm a Michigan hardcore guy, but it is new to Michigan. And this is the kind of thing where if you're running for governor and you want to separate yourself, you need to be able to tell me that you're going to bring back business as what used to be usual in Michigan. Where I remember a day when, man, if General Motors wanted to build a new plant, they'd talk to a bank.

They wouldn't talk to the governor. And so if we just went back to the old business practices where you don't need corporate welfare, you don't need tax cuts, you don't even need help. You're just going to spend the money and you're going to make money or lose money based on the investment value and how things go. I think that would be a breath of fresh air for everybody if we went back to the way things used to be. So it's really just this almost cronyism that's going on that is a big part of the issue. it is so what what is your hope with this issue like where would you like to see it be improved developed changed you know Detroit and Detroit they have this idea of a community benefits arrangement where you know if you're going to come into the town you have to kind of show how it's going

to benefit the people there I'm not saying that has to be the norm because a lot of times that winds up being a grift but I would like to see just normal conversations, right? But also, I mean, so say you're ice and you're coming into a town that doesn't want you, but also you have every right to be there and you're not asking for anything out of the norm from anyone else would get. I think you should be allowed to do that and not face undue, you know, problems. But I also think if you're going to use as much energy as the city uses itself, you should be sent that bill. You should pay the bill. And so, So the big problem we have in Michigan is we have socialized costs where a lot of people

are throwing in taxpayer money that's taken from them by force. And then we have privatized benefits where just a few people are going to make money off this thing. I think that's the exact worst of both worlds. And it's what we have right now. Is there a worry with the people fighting against and opposing these data centers that if they don't win, this cronyism will only expand? that other companies will be like, well, you know, if they can do it, we should be able to do it.

Oh, that's exactly the worry. That's exactly the worry is that, you know, anytime something becomes a standard business practice for eight years, there's always a worry about creating a new normal. And that new normal is one we're not looking to see in Michigan. Because, I mean, so, you know, prior to 2002, corporate welfare was not a norm in Michigan. then Jennifer Granholm gets elected. And now you have even Republican governors who have followed her, Governor Rick Snyder,

who continued it on. And so this is the danger of precedent is that sometimes even Republicans can find precedents useful, whereas I think whatever governor we have needs to think, how does this work for the 10 million people of Michigan? If you understood the 10 million of us to be your constituency,

and not just a small group of jobs, donors, not just a small group of people who can put you on a private jet when you want to travel, I think these things would be handled differently on the front end. When I first heard about this issue, you know, I always thought it was like that people had an issue with AI directly, right? That they didn't like that. What AI stood for. But it seems to me as we've been talking, it's a lot more about the policy behind these.

If you had to distill what is at the heart of this issue, what would you call it? I would say consent of the governed is what's at issue here. Do I have a say in what's happening in my community? Does my community have a say? Or is some assemblage of big corporations and big government enough to mute out my voice on what happens on streets I pay for? and with the air I breathe, with the water I draw from. And so we're going to learn very quickly.

What we learn with Goshen, the parable of Goshen, is that the people have a lot more power than they think. They were actually able to stop a Goliath project from happening and even to the point where the state is seeking clawbacks of $24 million from Goshen. So we have seen these things blow up in people's faces. I also think government should get out of the business of picking winners and losers. You're not in business with these companies. You should not be teaming up with these companies.

The only constituency anyone in government should represent is the people. Well, thank you so much, James. Hey, thank you so much for having me. I really appreciate it. It's been a great time. Our guest has been James Dixon, a Michigan-based journalist, previous Swin State reporter for the New York Post, political commentator and host the James Dixon podcast. I'm James Jawsky.

I'm Radio Free Hillsdale, 101.7 a thumb.