WRFH/Radio Free Hillsdale 101.7 FM - The Healing Hour: Be Precise in Your Speech

Episode Date: November 13, 2024

Today, Adriana and Erika discuss Rule Ten of Jordan Peterson's Twelve Rules for Life: Be Precise in Your Speech. They discuss the importance of precisely identifying problems in relationships, in our lives, and in society.

Hello and welcome to the Healing Hour on Radio Free Hillsdale, where we bring you your weekly dose of healing. I'm your host, Adriana Azarian. And I'm your co-host, Erica Kaiba. And we're here to help you become your happiest, healthiest, fullest self. And we continue working our way through Jordan Peterson's 12 Rules for Life. Today's episode brings us to Rule 10, getting towards the end here, which is... Be precise in your speech. Yes, indeed.

So what were you expecting going into the chapter and what did you find within it that maybe surprised you or what were your initial reactions? Okay, I was thinking of language on a macrocosmic scale because I think that a lot of problems with our society and with our, the political realm is that we're very vague in the words that we use. Kamala Harris. And you can't really argue with really vague terms. You can't really like solve vague problems, you know? But he brings it. And he does, you know, note this on a macrocosmic scale as well. But I think he particularly focuses on the being precise with yourself and being precise with people who are very close to you.

I think that's really important when it comes to problem solving and communication. And, you know, you can't really solve a problemless, you know what the problem is. So it's very important for big reasons and small reasons to be very precise in your speech. And we'll get into the details with more precision. Yeah, definitely. There's a micro scale, and I think that's what he focuses on through most of the chapter. But I really like what you brought up with the macro scale and how this applies, how we're seeing it play out in our society, people using very vague language,

and how that can kind of take us to dark places, places we don't want to be, confusing places where we can't communicate with each other, just not great all around. Yes. But to give you a little roadmap for this episode, so we're going to start out by talking about why it's important to be precise in our speech, in our relationships. He focuses a lot on romantic relationships in the chapter, but I think it applies generally. Being precise in identifying the dragons, so to speak, in our own lives, so just with ourselves. And three, we're going to talk about the broader implications.

of the chapter, the societal implications of it. So if we're going to start with being precise in our speech, in our relationships, in the bulk of the chapter, Jordan Peterson is talking about a hypothetical marriage that is in collapse when the woman finds out, the wife finds out that her husband is cheating on her. And Jordan Peterson kind of imagines how this relationship got to the point that it did. And what he makes very clear is that it doesn't. just happen overnight. There are always very small things that start to add up and there start

to be fights that you're not having and problems that you're not addressing. And then suddenly it all comes to a head and everything comes crashing down. And the whole point of the chapter is that you have to identify very precisely when something is bothering you, when something is making you uneasy or upset or angry even. And you have to talk about it. And you have to be precise when you talk about it. Yes. I actually, okay, I have a question about this particular thing because I've heard I've heard marriage advice, which is like talk it out always. And I've also heard marriage advice that's, you know, choose your battles. There are some things you should fight about and there are some things that are not worth fighting about. And those are very contradictory. I mean, I know neither of us

are married, but maybe in the context of friendship, what do you think? Maybe those two things are at two ends of a poll, let's say. And we can probably find a middle ground. So I don't think that, I think there is a sense in which you do have to pick your battles. And this is something that came into my head while I was reading the chapter and he was talking about,

like the little problems that plague a relationship as little dragons. And you can't just sweep them under a rug or they'll turn into a really big dragon and then they're going to eat you. I think that, especially for overthinkers, I don't know, not us. Not us.

No, no. I think that there's a real danger in identifying a dragon where there is not a dragon. Oh, okay. Okay. So, for example, if I'm stressed out with homework and I'm really sensitive and someone looks at me the wrong way and I'm like, oh my God, they hate me. You don't like, no, no, maybe that's not, that's an inside thought. That's like in Erica, you're overreacting. Let's process this and come back to it thought, you know? Yeah. Versus I think that, you know, if somebody says something hurtful, let's say, actually Jordan Peterson talks about this elsewhere. He uses what he calls the three strike rule. where if somebody is acting in an untoward fashion,

he says that you should notice it the first time and say, huh, that's weird, but people have off days. Because that's the other thing. You can't just be hounding everybody all the time for any mistake that they do because we're human and we kind of make mistakes. Second strike is you notice them do it the same thing again, and you're like, okay, that's really weird.

I'm going to be on my guard and watch for this. And then the third strike is when you say, hey, I noticed you do this thing, and you've done it these other two times, so that he says you actually have observed this happen and you have something to point to. It's not vague. It's precise. And then you could kind of talk it through and have the conversation. So I think that maybe Jordan Peterson's three strike rule together with making sure that you're

not overthinking the situation is a good guide for knowing when to bring it up and when not to bring it up. That's actually really good because it's still early enough that you can nip it in the bud, but it's not so early that, you know, you're just like constantly picking fights. because I was thinking about this. Like, I would constantly be picking fights with people if I had to, like, choose everything that bothered me about. Right. That's really good mean between the extremes.

Mm-hmm. Yeah. What have you found, like, when you're just trying to navigate conflict outside of romantic relationships, you know, with friends or family or whatever, how do you find the middle ground between, should I bring it up, should I not bring it up? It definitely depends on how close you are or someone. Right. And if it's going to, especially I think with friendship, it's different because it's not the same. thing as marriage, I guess. Like, but, you know, if I think, okay, if what I'm going to say is going to cause more damage to the friendship than just like letting it alone, then usually I won't

say anything. But I have noticed, especially like this year, I've gotten a lot better about communicating things with people. I mean, like, hey, I've gotten the sense that, like, you are upset with me. Can we please talk about that? Like, I want to know if I've done something to upset you. Like, things like that, where, you know, you don't make it about them. You just use a lot of eye statements. But, like, I've noticed this. And, like, this is when I noticed this. This is how I was understanding our conversation. Actually, very recently, without getting into many details,

I had a conversation with someone where, like, we both realized that neither of us was mad at each other at all, but we both assumed that we were both mad at each other for like no reason at all. And so we were like, hey, are we okay? And I was like, I'm not mad at you. I thought you were mad at me. And she was like, I'm not mad at you. I thought you were mad at me.

And like that sort of, that sort of thing where you just kind of have to, you know, if it really is bothering you and like you think you can go about it constructively, then you absolutely should. because if you're in a friendship, then you should be safe and secure enough to do that. And I think that that's absolutely true in marriage where it's like, okay, we're in this for the long run. You know, there's no getting out of this.

So let's just have a conversation about this and fix it together. Right. Yeah, exactly. Actually, that kind of goes back to the overthinking thing. Because I was coming at it from the perspective of, hey, maybe I'm overthinking this issue and I should like not bring it up. But in your case, actually bringing it up, bringing up the issue clarified that both parties were overthinking.

Yes. And that kind of like, and this is something that Jordan Peter Anderson uses this language of like once you clarify and articulate something, it's not in the fog anymore. But sometimes people like leave things in the fog because they're afraid. But this sometimes like in your case like you dispel the fog and like, oh, there's nothing there. You know? So yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Another good reason to talk about things. Yeah. You're bothered. I've also, I think this is maybe just part of like the maturing process, but I've also noticed that conflict resolution doesn't have to be an angry thing or a negative thing. It's just there is a problem between us, you know,

let's fix it as a team. Like the problem is not you. The problem is the problem. Yeah. Yeah. It's like they say you fight to make up. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. So I don't know. That's really changed the way that I view relationships in general. And I have a much more positive view. I think fighting is good. Fighting is good. Yeah. If it's done positively and healthfully.

Yes. And if you're just tuning in, you're listening to Radio Free Hillsdale 101.7 FM. You're listening to The Healing Hour with your host, Adriana Azarian. and your co-host, Erica Kaiba. And we're talking about Rule 10 of Jordan Peterson's 12 Rules for Life, getting very close to the end. We're discussing Rule 10, which is Be Precise in Your Speech. We were just talking about how to be precise in your speech with other people and conflict resolution. But there is another element of being precise in your speech that Jordan Peterson talks about,

and that is being precise when you're evaluating your own life and things that bother you. just maybe if you get just a nagging sensation about something in your life that isn't going right and you just kind of push it aside. So maybe it's the relationship you're in where something feels off but you ignore it or maybe it's a deadline that's coming up and you just kind of start twitching every time you look at your calendar but you're like, oh, I'm not going to think about that right now. Basically, whenever you get that nagging sensation, you have to identify. And maybe it's something even more serious than that. But basically, when you get that nagging feeling that something is off, you have to be precise and you have to identify it. And once you do that, then you're able to figure out a solution. And also gauge how serious the problem is.

Journaling has been really good for this. But I know it's very, you know, like typical advice. Like, just journal about it and you'll figure it out. There's a reason, though, that everybody talks about it. Even Jordan Peterson. Yeah. I think examinations have common. are really good because you're kind of forced to really sit with yourself and go through like every

single not every single because like we can't list every single possible sin but like very specific examples of sins that you have committed instead of being like oh yes I've been like I have problem with glutton sit and think about the instances where you had that problem and why you had that problem and how you can address that problem that's why I think confession is so good psychologically but even like without the context of religion just like sitting and thinking about all of your issues and the root causes of those issues and being extremely honest with yourself on a daily basis is so helpful. Adriana, I love that you brought up confession.

Oh, thank you. That's such a good point. And that works so perfectly with the chapter. I mean, in case you're listening and you're unfamiliar with the Catholic sacrament of confession, the idea is that, like Adriana said, you do an examination of conscience and you tally what the sins are that you've committed since the last time that you went to confession. and what exactly you've done and what exactly the sin is. And then you literally go and you tell another person,

you tell the priest who's acting in the person of Christ, but you have to say it. You have to use speech. And Jordan Peterson says that the world is literally organized through speech. There's just something so powerful about it. And you sit there and you say exactly what you did. And then the priest says the words to absolve you and also tells you what your pendants is

so that you can make it better with God, basically. but I mean it's so actually it's so helpful to do an examination of conscience because then it's not you don't leave your sins vague they're real concrete things that you've done to hurt people or yourself

and things that you can fix once you know what they are and you start going about your penance but it's like I remember when I was little my sister and I like if we were misbehaving and we went to apologize to our dad we'd be like dad I'm sorry and you'd be like

what are you sorry? for and we'd be like, I'm sorry I was bad. But you know, it's like, we laugh about that still sometimes. But it's like when you're a child, you don't maybe always specifically know exactly what the issue is, but then you get older and you can think through, okay, this is why I did. This is why I shouldn't have done it. And maybe you can even start thinking about this is why I did it. These are the underlying thoughts that are motivating this issue.

And once you get to the root cause there, then you can think about how you might eliminate it. I love that your dad did that, that he asked you, sorry for what? Yeah. Because there are so many times when I've apologized and I've received apologies that were just so unsatisfactory, like, I'm sorry.

Yeah. You know? Yeah, and it could even be thrown up as a shield. It's like, hey, that really hurt me. Yeah, well, I'm sorry. You know, then it's like, well, are you sorry? Or is that just a way of evaded conflict? Yeah, and it's like, are you sorry about,

like, are you sorry about the same thing that I think you should be sorry about because like then if you're not and there's like the problem is not solved, you know? Exactly. Um, so anyhow. Yes. And I found that a really important part of apologies is telling someone why you shouldn't have done that.

Because obviously, I mean, you don't think to do it always because they know why you shouldn't have done it. And it's obvious that you shouldn't have done it. But I think that just saying it out loud makes it very clear that the apology is not a shield and it's not a way of avoiding something. It's just you coming to them. in humility and saying, I'm sorry that I did this. You know, I owed you respect and I did not give that to you.

Or I was overly harsh with you and you didn't deserve that, you know, and I'm not going to let this happen again. Yeah. So be specific. Yes. In conflict and in apologies. Exactly. So if you're just tuning in, you are listening to The Healing Hour on Radio Free Hillsdale 101.7 FM. With your host, Adriana Azarian.

And your co-host, Erica Kaiba. And we are talking about chapter 10 of Jordan Peterson's 12 Rules for Life, which is be precise in your speech. And we were just talking about being honest with yourself and being precise with yourself and how you deal with your own vices. Now, I would like to transition to how precision in speech relates to society at large. So Erica and I were walking to the station just about 20 minutes ago or so. And I was talking to her about how I think George Orwell does a really good job with, communicating this truth that you have to be very precise in what you're saying. Now, if you're familiar with 1984,

one of the big problems in the book is that language is very valuable because they have very vague ways of speaking such that you can't question or actually think about what you're talking about. So, for example, like, you know, Big Brother. He's like just kind of this vague character. You don't actually really know who he is. Or what's another example? They talk about good figure.

bad thing. Yeah, like the language has become so vague that it's just like double plus good or double minus bad. It's just, you can't think about it because there's only, it's a very small vocabulary, right? And I think that's true in our society

now. I mean, you think about, you know, reproductive health, abortion, those are supposed to mean the same thing, but certain people prefer to use the term reproductive health. Or reproductive rights. No one is against rights. Yes. So, if they're coming at you using that language and you're saying, well, what about the right of the

baby? Or you're saying, wait, something's wrong. I don't think that this is a right. But I mean, they already have the semantics on their side. Right. The implications are very different of those two different terms. I mean, abortion, you think, okay, like a medical procedure that ends a life of an unborn child, like regardless of what your moral view on that is, like, that is the objective meaning of an abortion. Whereas, like a reproductive health, like, you said, it sounds nice. It sounds great. We can all support people like taking care of their health, you know, and fertility, whatever. but they mean, like they are very different, like, they're meant to mean the same thing,

but they have very different implications because, like, one is deceptive, the other one is more precise. I'll give you another example. Gender affirming care. Oh, my gosh. Like, I, hey, like, you're a woman. You go, girl. Like, I will affirm you being a woman, but I'm not going to, like, affirm someone who says

that they're a man if they're biologically a woman, you know? Right. Or you wouldn't affirm me if I came out and said, Adriana, I'm a dude now. Right. Because I'm not. and it wouldn't be just to me for you to do that. Right. So like the more precise term would be mutilation.

Yeah. It would be mutilation. Like that, yeah. And the fact, it just, it sugarcoats the fact that we're doing it to children, too, who cannot consent to it. Because it's a life-altering process. Yeah. And once it's done, it can't be undone.

If you get parts of you removed or if you shoot yourself with hormones, there's damage to that. There's consequences. And if you're 12 years old, how are you going to say, oh, yes, I'm ready to make this decision that's going to affect me for the rest of my life and can lead to severe complications down the road? You're not. But then people say, oh, gender affirming care. Gender affirming care. It sounds so nice. Right. And who doesn't want to affirm? Like, a lot of the times these kids have depression, they're actually genuinely struggling with stuff. And nobody wants to be the one to say, oh, well, I don't care about this kid, you know. Because we all care about the kid, you know. But, but. one of us is only claiming to and actually mutilating the child and making a lot of money doing so. And the other one is trying to protect the child and getting a lot of flack for it. Yep. So anyhow, like those examples will show you just, you have to be precise in what you're talking about because,

um, you can't, I mean, you can't argue against gender reforming care. You can only argue against reproductive rights, but you can't argue against abortion. You can argue against mutilating children. Yeah. You know? or you can argue for them if you want. I mean, I don't think it's right, but you could. Anyhow, so point being, language,

it's important that we keep a very wide vocabulary, right? And that we use the correct terms to refer to things and not sugarcoat them or make them sound nice or bad. You know, I think that probably is a flip side to this too. Like what's, I don't know, for example, like the word exclusion. that doesn't always have to be negative. Right. Like, it's probably good that I'm excluded from a men's bathroom.

Exactly. But, you know, I think we, like, can make it sound like, oh. It's become a charged word. Right. Like, we have to be inclusive. Right. Yeah. Yeah.

So. And it's interesting. I think to some extent, everybody does this because we have words. And we have a culture that has certain ideals. So, like we were talking about rights before. I mean, we're Americans that's enshrined in the concept. institution. I'm just kind of ironic because not everybody loves the Constitution who's talking about reproductive rights. But still, I mean, we, and we love equality. And inclusivity, I think,

stems from equality. It's like, we have this plethora of values as Americans in every culture does. And everybody who's acting politically appeals to them in order to make a case. So I think that, you know, to some extent that's normal and that's healthy and that's really unavoidable. but I think that we always have to be on our guard against it. Who is abusing the term? And also, just if you're talking about processes like abortion, they're very concrete things, just slapping on words like gender affirming care,

well, that doesn't, that's, like you said, that's a very vague term, and there could be a million different things cloaked under it. Yeah. So that's not an acceptable use of semantics. Right, but like abortion in a medical context, You can't mistake that for anything else. Exactly.

And it's not a charged word. It's become a charged word politically. But the word itself, I mean, you're describing a process and you're not attaching a moral judgment to it. Well, to conclude all that, it's just really important to when we're having political conversations or when we're consuming political media to identify what somebody is actually trying to say

and when they're just throwing cliches and platitudes and vague words at you. and to figure out how to respond to that, you know, and not respond always on their terms and not be scared by the vagueness and then figure out what you want to say and say it precisely. Amen. And with that, we will be moving on to our next episode,

which is Rule 11, and that is, Do not bother children when they are skateboarding. I have never once bothered a child while skateboarding. No, I have never once skateboarded, I am sad to say. There you go. As a child. Oh, I mean, I don't think I have either. There we go.

There we go. So we're going to talk about something we were both very experienced with the next episode. Well, thank you for joining us on this episode. We will see you, or I guess you won't see you. You'll hear us next time. We will be heard and we will speak to you next week. Same time and same place. Ciao.